/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.3642391]

Redpill me on triangle mouths. Why do they seem to work 90% of the times?

[Anonymous No.3642487]

Symbol drawing is just another tool, not something to avoid forever. Many /beg/s get scared of the s-word and forget that knowing what symbols work better is key for stylization.

[Anonymous No.3642538]

>>3642391
Because it looks like a smile...

[Anonymous No.3642565]

>>3642487
this, it's the same feeling i get when i see an artist avoiding any and all tangents when really it's just an extremely powerful tool you have to be careful not to misuse

[Anonymous No.3642566]

They dont

[Anonymous No.3642576]

>>3642391
It's easier to think of mouths as a 2d shape.

[Anonymous No.3642612]

>>3642487
Symbol drawing is a meme word used to scared beginners.
There's no symbol drawings, drawings aren't real people no matter how much you want to pretend you're capturing reality's likeness. In the end you're just making shapes and lines that look something like what you see in reality. you can make an incredibly realistic person using nothing but cubes, you are forming a symbol of their body using basic shapes. Symbol drawing is just another way of saying you're abstracting reality, using more advanced and detailed symbols are just a less abstracted version.

[Anonymous No.3642616]

>>3642487
It's not symbol drawing though you clown. It has to be along the perspective of the front plane of the face under the nose. ngmi desu

[Anonymous No.3642621]

>>3642616
I have to assume that you're the same person shitting up every thread about this question, because you post the same retarded argument every time about how people are "ngmi" if they think that anime is symbol drawing. What a person's definition of the term "symbol drawing" has to do with their drawing ability, I have no fucking clue.
Maybe you're the person actually starting these threads just to start shit. Who cares if anime is symbol drawing or not, just draw what you want and who cares what people call it.

[Anonymous No.3642647]

>>3642621
If you symbol draw your anime it's gonna look horrific. Take it from me - I used to do it.

[Anonymous No.3642650]

>>3642647
>i used to be bad at drawing and /ic/ told me it was symbol drawing
>2 years later I'm still bad at drawing but at least its not symbols r-right?!

[Anonymous No.3642663]

>>3642650
What point are you even trying to make?

[Anonymous No.3642667]

>>3642663
that you were trash because you suck at drawing, not because of some magical "symbol drawing"

[Anonymous No.3642732]

>>3642667
Yes, sure, but sticking to symbol drawing is inferior because we live in a 3D world and anime(using anime as an example because most people think that anime is symbol drawing) is 3D. Most things in competent stylization like anime are in perspective and have depth(look at keyframes, for instance). i.e not symbol drawing. Sticking to symbol drawing without being able to draw in 3D is inferior to being able to draw 3D forms and then intentionally drawing symbols if you need to. Former is inability and incompetence, latter is skill and competence. The world we live in and anime bodies aren't symbols, they're 3D. The eyes, for example, might be- but they're in perspective, which is why it works. Take pic related for example. By not drawing in symbols you're already being competent and improving in representing what you actually want to. If you want to draw sub-3D things, then symbol drawing is pretty much what you'd want to do.
P.S. I'm not >>3642647

[Anonymous No.3642738]

>>3642732
Who says symbols are 2D?
Maybe my symbols are 3D. Maybe my symbols involve a off-spherical shape with concave features for a head?

The problem with symbol drawing in general is that it makes no sense, what people define it as is drawing what you think something looks like as opposed to what it actually looks like. But any time you draw from imagination you're drawing what you think something looks like, the difference is with time and experience is you hone what that thing looks like, you begin to understand how it moves and how it deforms. But in the end you're always drawing what you think something looks like.

Symbol drawing is just another way of saying drawing from imagination. The only reason beginners are scared because of it is because they're already bad and don't know what things look like because they have no visual library and they've never actually looked at what things look like.
And inb4
>but you studied it now so its no longer what you think it looks like, it is what it looks like
its not, because your memory is never perfect, and if you're drawing any pose that isn't from perfect memory then you're filling in the gaps with what you think are there along with some scientific guesses based on common measurements and past experience, as well as what just looks good.


Symbol drawing is a meme that needs to be killed off along with fun with a pencil.

[Anonymous No.3642753]

>>3642738
Show me an accurate representation of 3D symbol drawing that actually has real world fundamentals applied to it.

[Anonymous No.3642756]

>>3642753
And this is the other problem, it wouldn't matter what drawing I showed you because no you can say its not symbol drawing because it doesn't fit the criteria of being bad.

Something being a symbol drawing or not follows some imaginary criteria of someone following an imaginary process in their head that, for you, somehow changes it from drawing what they think something looks like, to drawing it in its actual form.

[Anonymous No.3642758]

>>3642738
I think we may be arguing semantics here. Looking at this problem in context might make my stand clear. Technically, you're correct. Everything would be a symbol since we draw what we've perceived. In most cases though- from what I've observed and from what's evident, even in /ic/ threads- people draw flat 2D shapes as their representation of things they perceive- which is what I was referring to. Symbol drawing is most of the time flat. If your symbols have form, great. I guess the phrase itself is flawed, but since majority of times they are 2D shapes I think symbol drawing = 2D shapes is a safe assumption. You could come up with a new word but it's not like anyone would use it.

[Anonymous No.3642759]

>>3642756
>because it doesn't fit the criteria of being bad.

Ok anon, how would you determine what is bad?

[Anonymous No.3642761]

>>3642759
What would you determine to be symbol drawing then, in an extremely detailed specific definitions that leaves no wiggle room for arguing?

>>3642758
Drawing in 2D is just someone simply being bad and not knowing how to apply perspective properly. Nobody actually thinks something is 2D, and you'll see them at least attempt to make something 3D, they're just incapable of doing so because they lack the experience and technical ability to do so.
This is where my problem with the term lies, it only exists to refer to beginners who lack basic abilities, rather than existing as an actual concept. Most people use it solely to refer to anime drawings and other completely random doodles that wouldn't of been something they would of drawn from life anyways. I've seen way too many times on /ic/ people post a side by side of 2 drawings, both flat and shit as fuck but say
>hey look i stopped symbol drawing
because they drew a badly realistic hand.

but in general you see the term thrown at anything people don't like for whatever reason so long as its not a life drawing. and its just a completely and utterly flawed term, people should just say exactly what it is they mean.
>this drawing is shit, you have no idea what humans look like, go draw humans until you know what humans look like

[Anonymous No.3642764]

>>3642761
>What would you determine to be symbol drawing then, in an extremely detailed specific definitions that leaves no wiggle room for arguing?

A drawing with no real world fundamentals applied to it.

[Anonymous No.3642771]

>>3642764
That's just called shit.

So if I drew an anime, with no study of human anatomy, but added a box with some perspective under her its no longer symbol drawing?
If I draw clothes overlapping her arms, and thus showing perspective by occluding what exists under it, is it no longer a symbol?
If I add basic color theory to it, is it no longer a symbol?

[Anonymous No.3642784]

>>3642771
yes. that's called simplifying the human form. You're still drawing within 3D spaces and understanding how to move these things on a real world fundamental level. unlike symbol drawing where you can't apply anything about symbol drawing to real life.

[Anonymous No.3642786]

>>3642761
You're right, the term is flawed. Simply put, I'm trying to say that being ignorant of form and drawing 3D as 2D by choice is an incorrect approach because in this case, the artist is trying to represent 3D forms as 2D without fully understanding it. Again, most people go for the typical anime face "shape", which isn't a 2D plane, but a 3D form.

[Anonymous No.3642787]

>>3642784
In that case literally any drawing you could show me is not a symbol drawing.

The fundamentals are more than just a studied thing, everything has gesture, it might be bad gesture, but it has them. Any drawing has attempts at anatomy/perspective/proportions/coloring, they just failed to execute it as well as someone with more training.

So literally any drawing you can show me that someone did as a real drawing, is not a symbol drawing, because on some level you can find a relation to a fundamental hidden within there however poor it may be.

[Anonymous No.3642804]

>>3642787
please find where any fundamental lies in this drawing

[Anonymous No.3642805]

>>3642804
I see the basics of someone trying eye anatomy.
I see lighting done with the highlight in the pupil. I also see perspective in the upper lid covering the iris.

[Anonymous No.3642816]

>>3642805
How does the highlight work unless it's a form? How do you find the perspective unless it's a form? Where is the form in that picture?

[Anonymous No.3642819]

>>3642816
take two pieces of paper
put one on top of the other
one is no longer visible
this shows that one piece of paper is above the other
this is perspective.

so you've gone from saying any real world fundamental, to specifically using 3dimensional shapes?

is symbol drawing just the use of 3D shapes then?

[Anonymous No.3642848]

>>3642565
What? Can you post any examples of artworks with tangents that actually look good?

[Anonymous No.3642852]

>>3642848
Not him, but maybe you can make things intentionally confusing? Even then, seems like a rare and very specific thing to do

[Anonymous No.3642899]

Triangle mouth is bad anatomy and symbol drawing. Weeb shit artists can't draw real mouths and don't know even basic anatomy.

[Anonymous No.3642908]

The elaborate word salads some of you anons craft just because you fail to grasp entry level concepts such as symbol drawing are equally amusing as they are pathetic.

[Anonymous No.3642934]

>>3642391
It never works.

[Anonymous No.3642936]

>>3642899
Real mouths are unappealing when applied to stylization

[Anonymous No.3643909]

Worst thread.

[Anonymous No.3643948]

>>3642391
Triangles are appealing shapes

[Anonymous No.3643953]

>>3643948
fuck off sycra