/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.3630088]

How can Iearn do give the ilusion of motion? I've read many of the books /ic/ recomend and they are great to get a basic notion of perspective, anatomy and observation drawing, but I simply can't find any good source of information on how to give the ilusion of movtion, and randomly putting speed lines is not taking me anywere. Please help

[Anonymous No.3630110]

Go read some old school Astro boy. That artist does a really good job at portraying motion. Check out my hero as well.
Honestly it’s all just about gesture. Gesture is the idea of motion. Don’t even worry about perspective/form/volume/proportion at that stage. Just try to portray the action, it’s almost an abstract practice.
Also I found that when watching old school handrawn animation, they wiill physically draw their blurs, so try looking at some of your favorites and pausing when the action gets heavy and draw what you see.

[Anonymous No.3630117]

look at baki the grappler

[Anonymous No.3630118]

>>3630110
>>3630117

Thanks for the advice, will look it up, but I was looking more for a writen and ilustrated guide on the basics of the technique, like the many we got on other principles of drawing.

>>3630117
Not my cup of tea.

[Sage No.3630144]

>>3630088
Find examples of art that shows what you want to portray, or at least examples you like, and then copy them over and over again, being as exact or as close to exact as you can be, then start applying what you learned to you work

[Anonymous No.3630162]

>>3630117
This. Itagaki is godlike at conveying motion and action.
>>3630118
>sleeping on Baki
You're missing out. The art style is an acquired taste but I personally love it. And the motion is superb when you look past the style. Another thing you can do is look to the principals of animation. Comics borrow from aspects of those principals. For example, if I was drawing a swinging sword, I might deform it in a way that implies it's moving, plus have the pose of the guy swinging it timed properly. You can add speed lines as well to imply an arc of motion. I might make a quick example and post it up for you

[Anonymous No.3630171]

>>3630162
>Itagaki is godlike at conveying motion and action

If you are going to talk about manga artists who mastered this the best exemples would be OP's and Murata.

[Anonymous No.3630172]

>>3630088
Read Vagabond

[Anonymous No.3630631]

>>3630088
try animating

[Anonymous No.3630924]

>>3630088
>>3630171
Fucking this. Itagaki is still very good, but Murata is just an alien. Look up Eyeshield 21, pretty much motion in every page.

Murata has a very cinematic way of conveying motion, mixing with very good perspective angles, and that's just the one I prefer personally. Itagaki's motion is much more illustrative.

I'll post some pages I really liked.

[Anonymous No.3630929]

>>3630924

[Anonymous No.3630936]

>>3630929
Just look at this shit. I've read a fuckton of american/European comics, never have I seen as much dynamism as there are in mangas, and Murata is probably at the top.

[Anonymous No.3630941]

>>3630936
one of my absolute favourites. you can just feel the effort, the body twisting.

[Anonymous No.3630942]

>>3630941
Perspective adds a lot.

[Anonymous No.3630945]

more illustrative here.

[Anonymous No.3630949]

And that's all I have from eyeshield, There's also a lot in OPM like here, but It became mostly illustrative due to the content.

[Anonymous No.3630968]

>>3630949
Murata's so good you can clearly imagine the entire motion of his arm when taking out his sword.

[Anonymous No.3631016]

>>3630949
Miura is the best IMO, he doesn't abuse of speed lines and smears when showing motion, it is very clean, you can still see the full shape of Guts sword, but you still feel the speed it is going at

[Anonymous No.3631033]

>>3630171
Murata is a cheater. He is too good at keeping the whole scene in the head.

[Anonymous No.3631035]

>>3630936
From western artists you could probably try Trad Moore and his Luther Strode comic.

[Anonymous No.3631114]

just add motion blur nerd
lmao

[Anonymous No.3631151]

>>3631114
What if I don't do digital art?

[Anonymous No.3631153]

>>3631151
like, just paint it manually
lmao

[Anonymous No.3631172]

>>3630088
You can give the illusion of motion with no speed lines one you become very skilled. Prime toriyama was a pro when it came to this stuff. I think his slap and stretch cartoon style experience helped with over exaggerating the impact in his fights and just high speed movement in general seeing as how few things in dragon Ball move slowly.

[Anonymous No.3631174]

>>3631153
But I, like, don't paint lmao, I just draw, blopzt.

[Anonymous No.3631179]

>>3631172
There are lotsof speed lines there, plus I'm pretty sure the whole aura arround the body thin was made just so he could draw the whole path the characer moved trough.

[Anonymous No.3631180]

>>3631172
Some more

[Anonymous No.3631187]

>>3631179
Should said speed lines in the right places. But the amount of speed lines and how long they are impacts it greatly. I say this because I use too many of them. The aura definitely helps but I think that's just to show characters flying faster/more power.

[Anonymous No.3631213]

>>3630088
Study animation.

Motion implies time. Drawing motion is connecting two different positions in two different points in time. Therefore speed lines should show consideration for the previous position (as well as physics, air, abstract things like character intent, etc.) It can't be random.

Special consideration should also be given to squash and stretch. In the west, this concept typically explained as a function of weight, but time and optics are a part of it too. This is what the Japanese understand and incorporate better into their inbetweens that western animations. Think about cameras with long exposure times. Think about light sabre battles and how the sword seems to change shape.

[Anonymous No.3632234]

>>3631016
Miura is also very good at this, but Like I said, Murata is on another level with dynamism, and that's from one of Miura's biggest right here.

The only thing that sets them appart I think is how much murata dedicates to the motion. Miura still focuses on the overall illustration, but murata focuses primarely on the movement.

[Anonymous No.3632239]

>>3632234
Am I making sense? reading it again it's not very clear. Basically Miura is a much more illustrative artist than Murata, but because he's a god he's also great at dynamism. Murata is much more movement/perspective focused than miura, but because he's another god he's also great at illustrating.

[Anonymous No.3632387]

>>3632239
Not him but this looks stiff as fuck

[Anonymous No.3632395]

>>3630088
I guess it's about gesture and putting those speed lines at the object that's moving. Check out Hajime no Ippo or Baki (when it comes to manga) and try copying their artstyle for a bit

[Anonymous No.3632857]

>>3630088
Not OP, but this was a productive thread. The details aren't all noticeable on this shitty pic, but I think the Miura trick is using the hatching itself to give motion. Well I think everyone already figured that out, but it's cool.

Also the animation tip is good, I'm studying by watching videos of anything (sports, martial arts, anime itself) and doing a drawing of one frame, then playing it for a few more seconds and now drawing the end motion. With gesture to make it more quickly, but I think you'll get the hang of it going down that road.

[Anonymous No.3633068]

>>3630088
It's not about putting random speedlines, they follow / emphasize motion depending on how you use them.

Even just breaking up lines on things that are moving works, the faster it's moving, the more broken up the lines. (essentially just motion blur)

[Anonymous No.3633183]

Each medium has its way of portraying motion, and every artist has its variation of that way.
Animation can use speedlines, as well as motion smears, but manga artists attempt to stylise motion, either by drawing a blurred piece of the body or, in case of toriyama, you exchange image-covering action lines for aura flares behind the character that describe the movement of the character. Or you could do like murata and have the motion lines create an opaque beam that covers whatever's behind it, saving you time when doing art.

In short, anime uses smears and thin action lines, toriyama uses thin action lines while his effects portray the main motion, and murata uses his main motion lines to both describe the action and cover a bit of the art to save time.

[Anonymous No.3633237]

I don't know if I'd call it the best but I like the way it's done in Hajime no Ippo.

[Anonymous No.3633239]

You need to understand animation, or rather how things move. Understand what part of an action youre drawing. Then smear the parts that move fastest (usually the ends of limbs)

[Anonymous No.3633240]

>>3632857
Lmao that shaggy

[Anonymous No.3633261]

>>3631174
Motion blur is basically just soft edges in key parts. Painting == Drawing, you draw with paint. If you're working with graphite, study motion blurs to see where the edges are soft and how. If it's ink then either do washes or break the lines up or try to render soft edges with hatching or stippling.

[Anonymous No.3633285]

>>3630171
murata might be better with the pose of the bodies and such but I think itagaki is better with the bodies themselves, all the muscles, bones and tendons of them

[Anonymous No.3633798]

>>3633285
>itagaki is better with the bodies themselves
We would need to see him draw a human body to know that

[Anonymous No.3634636]

>>3632857
>El shaggy blanco
basado y rojoempastillado

[Anonymous No.3635008]

>>3631033
nice

[Anonymous No.3635063]

I remember reading this in the actual Wizard issue as a kid in the late 90s and it’s something that stuck with me

[Anonymous No.3635064]

>>3635063

[Anonymous No.3635065]

>>3635008
He did a couple such things. Arrival of Metal Knight, for example, which he also coloured with markers. Sadly they take too much time.

[Anonymous No.3635066]

>>3635064

[Anonymous No.3637441]

This is a good thread.
What about coming up with the poses/angles themselves?
So much to think about when drawing a scene.

[Anonymous No.3637639]

>>3637441
Action movies? People who film them know what they are doing.

[Anonymous No.3637688]

>>3637441
Avoid bad tangents.
>lines parallel to edges, lines lining up with one another, mistakenly implied edges
Use interesting shapes.
>trapezoids,triangles>squares, ovals>circles, good mix of small, medium, large shapes
Be aware of and sparingly use rule of thirds and golden ratio
Incorporate a good value range, balanced does not necessarily mean equal amounts of value

[Anonymous No.3638115]

>>3630088
Observe the image you posted, Gut's torso and shoulders are the fulcrum of the moving object, they are drawn almost entirely normally, but as you get down to his elbows and forearms (parts moving relative to said fulcrum) the detal is blurred and the drawing is left deliberately sketchy. You then get down to the blade itself, which is almost completely abstract, the dark lines which would normally make up it's components vanish, and while the shading is kept to a very slight degree, as a whole it becomes one big "blur" made of harsh sharp lines all moving in the direction of the swing. The blur loses shape a bit and seems to smear very slightly at the trailing edge, showing that it's moving so fast the eye wouldn't be able to keep track of the precise shape. This gives it an illusion of moving very quickly.

[Anonymous No.3638283]

>>3630088
Check out attack on titan if you haven't already. The author uses a lot of dynamic posing and careful framing to emphasize movement.
I can't really give you direct instructions or anything, but I thought you might appreciate another resource

[Anonymous No.3638413]

>>3630171
Eh, Murata is very good at making his work dynamic using freehamd perspective, speed lines etc. But Baki is ahead when considering Itagaki almost never uses perspective tricks to enhance his drawings. What Itagaki excels is the essence of capturing the impact and the anticipation leading up to it. His characters have a serious weight to them which he achieves with simple gesture lines, heavy detail and an excellent use of values.

[Anonymous No.3640788]

Good thread