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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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3616309 No.3616309 [Reply] [Original]

Why is learning to draw harder than programming, playing guitar, and going to the gym?

>> No.3616317

drawing is not harder than programming, it is easier than playing guitar well and going to the gym literally only requires you to get up

>> No.3616327

>>3616309
Because your "muh style" gets in the way of learning art and not all those other things

>> No.3616347

>>3616309
I'm not sure about playing guitar and going to the gym, but drawing isn't harder than programming. Maybe it is for you, because you might have an aptitude or might have experience in computers like the people who have experience in drawing ever since they were children. The real hard stuff in programming is not regurgitating or limiting yourself to concepts and patterns already established- writing a new algorithm for example. Being able to write a calculator is like knowing and being able to clumsily apply what syntax and basic/untrained logic you know. Just like training the hand in art to do any line it wants to is imperative, training your brain for thinking outside the box and being able to think and apply logic is imperative for programming.

>> No.3616374

>>3616309
Art is a lot more complicated because art is learning how to observe everything and being able to remember it. And then you can stylize everything.

>> No.3616392

>>3616309
Drawing, guitar, and lifting are my hobbies and I have to say that drawing is the hardest, followed by guitar, then lifting. The nuances and variables in drawing, as well as the internalized knowledge required make it more complex than guitar. In music, you have the same notes, repeated over several octaves.

>> No.3616395

>>3616309
Because it requires knowledge that is spread across all three of those skills.

>> No.3616423

>>3616309
Holy shit, why of all activities you could lists as "easier" to drawing did you pick those exact three
You literally described all the interested I have ever pursued in my entire life

>> No.3616645

>>3616309
You probably don't know more than basic concepts of programming and a bit of OOP. It's like being able to draw boxes in perspective and thinking drawing is easy.

>> No.3616671
File: 78 KB, 781x491, 1519226573628.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3616671

>>3616309
>t. scriptkiddie

>> No.3616703

By rank, difficulty descending.

Programming
Drawing
Guitar
Doing nothing
Going to the gym

Guitar is fairly simple, but there comes a point where for most people they can't get past it. They can't train their fingers well enough. If you're looking at upper bound, guitar could be harder than drawing for most people.

Drawing is not bounded at all. Anything someone can do in drawing you can as well with enough time. Drawing is iterative and dependent on result. You may not draw real time like kim jung gi but you can produce a drawing that is even better if you apply yourself. Additionally, there's not even a right answer when drawing. You're just doing whatever.

Programming is the most difficult. There's just nothing you can do if your brain can't handle it. You can take apart the world, do things you don't understand yourself. Drawing aint shit to that.

You can get a monkey to gym. The mystery of this thread is how you thought going to the gym was difficult.

>> No.3616710
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3616710

>>3616309
>going to the gym
that's actually easy, not gonna argue with that.
>playing guitar
the best illustrators in the world got there in less hours than the best guitarists who have to perform incredible virtuoistic techniques like arpeggios, shredding, and soloing that require not only creative brilliance but an incredibly fast brain too
>programming
ok if you're gonna bait try and make it less obvious, you went too far here

>> No.3616721

>>3616392
Same bro, except mine are, in order of easiest to hardest, piano-liftan-foreign languages--prog-drawing.

>> No.3616733

>>3616309
>Why is learning to draw harder
this is one of the things that I love about art. It's a challenge. I'm not talking about drawing as a skill, I'm talking about making art. You can become a doctor by memorizing facts, you can learn most things by memorizing facts and techniques, everyone believe these people are smart because they can memorize and understand concepts. Making art is a challenge, because it can't be faked. If you make art, someone, somewhere will understand what you are trying to say, and if it's not genuine, it's not art. you can't fake art as you can fake a medical degree or whatever else people are impressed by.

>> No.3616744
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3616744

>>3616703
>Programming is the most difficult.
Yeah fucking right, coding is easy, you can find anything just by google these day.
It's the design and planning that is hard, but that's not the job of the code monkey

>> No.3616780

music is harder than drawing is harder than programming is harder than gymming

>> No.3617081

>>3616744
>>3616645
There's a lot more to programming than most of self-proclaimed and self taught ""programmers"". Need to know a lot of other things than just the syntax and math in school, that stuff is only properly covered in books(take in-depth reverse engineering for example). At that point you'd stop looking at the internet and know mostly everything, what most of your lines mean, like data packing and syntactic sugar(A lot of people don't know what a foreach loop in C# does for fucks sake). Enough to be able to finally be innovative. To continue the analogy Anon made, it's like finally knowing forms, values, colors, perspective, anatomy, and finally be able to draw what you want, however you want.

>> No.3617094 [DELETED] 
File: 41 KB, 289x289, 1535778631259.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3617094

>>3616744
>Yeah fucking right, coding is easy, you can find anything just by google these day.
It's the design and planning that is hard, but that's not the job of the code monkey
ngmi

>> No.3617095

>>3617094
What’s a code monkey do
Is it easy

>> No.3617097
File: 41 KB, 289x289, 1535778631259.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3617097

>>3616744
>Yeah fucking right, coding is easy, you can find anything just by google these day.
>It's the design and planning that is hard, but that's not the job of the code monkey
ngmi

>> No.3617103

>>3616309
I learned how to draw and failed to learn how to play the guitar.

Checkmate.

>> No.3617127

>>3617103
You only fail when you stop trying.

>> No.3617161

>>3617081
> finally be able to draw what you want, however you want.
DISCLAIMER:anime not included

>> No.3617207

>>3617127

Right. I stopped trying to play the guitar, but I kept drawing. Playing the guitar was like pulling teeth, but drawing came naturally.

>> No.3617232

>>3616317
>drawing is not harder than programming, it is easier than playing guitar well

guaranteed you're not good at drawing. tons of people can play guitar or program, but great artists are much less common.

>> No.3617245

>>3617097
>>3617081
>>3616317
>>3616347
>>3616645
>>3616710
a third of the human population draws and less than 1 in 100 000 are competent at it.
One in every 15 humans codes and you can easily find competence in a pool of 10k random humans.

Unless you disagree and say there are 70k artists out there who are at a high level of art but less than 70k who are at a high level of programming

Or maybe you want to make it an argument of time spent/schooling/what have you. It's all the same. You can group up a million shitty programmers and pull a miracle, you can't do the same with a million shitty artists.

So you've got one skill where there are much more people practicing, much less success. A skill which cannot be amplified by increasing the number of participants. And this is supposed to be the easier skill?

>> No.3617250

>>3617245
>A skill which cannot be amplified by increasing the number of participants.

What is a studio lmao

>> No.3617253

>>3617250
WHAT IS THE BEG THREAD THEN.
Have them collaborate for a fucking year on a project 24/7 and they still can't beat someones who has been drawing for 2 years with the same intensity.

A studio is just people studying. What I'm stating is that just increasing the manpower doesn't solve anything, unlike programming.

>> No.3617257

>>3616309
all those other things are way more structured than art.

>> No.3617259

>>3617253
No like a game studio or something lol
Why are you raging so hard? Take a chill pill friend :)

>> No.3617268

>>3617259
ok, what about a game studio? I'm not going to finish your incorrect arguments for you.

>> No.3617269

>>3617245
>You can group up a million shitty programmers and pull a miracle, you can't do the same with a million shitty artists.
Examples?
"Shitty" programmers have the "code monkey" job. Competent and good programmers/thinkers on the other hand have the lead jobs, who do the thinking(math, science, efficiency, etc).

>> No.3617274

>>3617268
As in that's an example of gathering more people together and amplifying the skill? Are you ok dude can you even keep track of this shit right now

>> No.3617281

>>3617274
A game studio doesnt amplify the skill of the artists, it just brings most artists a little closer to the skill of the lead

>>3617269
My example is india, companies would rather hire 100 shitty indians than 10 competent humans

>> No.3617285

>>3617281
Uh ok bud

Oh it's nosebro? Lmao didn't notice at first. I'm out fuck you dude you just like to shit up threads

>> No.3617296

>>3617245
>a third of the human population draws and less than 1 in 100 000 are competent at it.
>One in every 15 humans codes and you can easily find competence in a pool of 10k random humans.
What makes you say that? Any citations or statistics? As far as I can see, you're assuming that these programmers you speak of do the important parts(Math, algorithms, efficiency, etc). When they actually don't. Logically, I think it's safe to assume that majority of these programmers are same as the people who aren't competent in drawing- since it takes a lot of effort to get extraordinarily good at any skill.

>>3617281
Assuming that these things *do* happen in innovative projects, where there are people innovating, like Nvidia's real-time raytracing or Euclidean's Solidscan (you haven't provided examples of software outsourced)- Again, these people wouldn't be "good" programmers, these programmers follow things given by the lead developers who think how the software will be made/should work(Again- math, algorithms and efficiency mostly). These 100 shitty Indians that you speak of are just following the orders, which is like cooking from a recipe book. It's the same as having an art director and a concept artist direct a bunch of artists in a movie project. I think outsourcing innovative bleeding edge software is very unlikely anyway, since you'd want your own company to work on it, rather than some other people who potentially might ruin it all.

>> No.3617308

>>3617232
whic is it now? great artists and great musicians/guitarrists. or tons of amateurs that can draw decently and people that can play guitar or program?
fucking brainlet.

>> No.3617311
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3617311

>>3616309
it isn't

>> No.3617337

>>3617311
says the guy whos been painting for 10 years and paints shit like your pic related

>> No.3617655

>>3617245
>all programmers are the same skill level
>but artists have tiers

literally ngmi the post

>> No.3617660

>>3616317
>>3616703
>programming is hard
yikes

>> No.3617701

>>3617660
You either have a mindset for that or not. Inbetween would be a mediocre coder, who gets his 70k $ pear year and he lives with that.

>> No.3617708

>>3617701
Even being mediocre sounds great.

>> No.3617710

>>3617708
shame its boring and soulless and you'll want to kill yourself haha yeah programming is great

>> No.3617711

>>3617710
>make 70k
>want to kill self
Don’t think so

>> No.3617738

>>3617711
>its all about money!!
naive, i thought the same, but genuinely a 9 - 5 you HAVE to go to EVERY week, which you hate, isnt worth it, because you have no good amount of time to fully express the amount of money you earn. you end up buying things, and things dont make you happy for long, experiences do (for most people at the very least).

>> No.3617756

>>3616703
brainlet
fucking pajeets can code, dude

>> No.3617764

>>3616309
I can draw and do none of those other things

>> No.3617906

>/ic/ actually believes doing chinese symbol drawings is harder than writing 1 million lines of code
Attach to reality a bit plox
100k artists can reunite and make the best piece the world has ever seen
100k coders can reunite and make products that will reign the world (like Windows for example)

>> No.3617930

I'm a programmer and learning to draw, and let me tell you, drawing doesn't even come NEAR the amount of stress that programming gives.

Programming is extremely stressful, even for skilled programmers. Because programming is in reality the art of debugging shit, provided you at least know how to start doing what you think you should be doing. If you're already good at algorithms/data structures, there's also an infinite amount of other required skills like mathematics, software engineering practices...

>> No.3617932

>>3617930
Drawing is way harder, buddy.
You're going to be /beg/ tier for years.

>> No.3617936

>>3617930
Maybe the debugging part is tedious, but the concepts in themselves are not hard at all. You either get it or don't, but with drawing there's only few people that can really master it.

>> No.3617941

Lol at this thread.

How would you even measure any of this?

Drawing is super fucking easy, even children and retards can do it.
Getting "good" at anything takes work and discipline and when it comes to creativity the whole concept becomes a lot more subjective.

I dont think Drawing is any harder than programming, playing music, or making gains at the gym. If you put in 40 hours a week of serious practice you'd be surprised how quickly you learn to draw.

The hard thing with art and music is being consistent, staying motivated, finding a way to make those type of careers sustainable and being interesting/entrepreneurial enough to present old ideas in a new way.

>> No.3617943

>>3617936
>but with drawing there's only few people that can really master it.
da fuq are you talking about? What is "mastery"?
Theres a fuckton of people who can draw really well.

>> No.3617945

>>3617936
>there's only few people that can really master it.
This applies to all fields you know?
Name one person that runs as fast as Usain Bolt
Name one person that has contributed to technology as must as Dennis Ritchie

>> No.3617952

>>3617941
How are you supposed to do 40 hours of serious practice a week?

>> No.3617959

>>3616309
I will drop the truth bomb right here.

Art has some of the most challenging micro cognitive skills to obtain which means the subconscious skill to learn how to learn efficiently and effectively. But that's all there is to it. You don't need to master anything too complex to be a great artist.

The micro cognitive skills required for programming may be far easier because programming is so straight forward but the knowledge is so extremely complex and deep compared to art it's not even funny anymore.

>> No.3617961

>>3617952
Are you asking what to practice or how to do it?

What to practice depends on what you want to do with your art. As i said, the hard part of art isnt learning the craft itself.
Literally every completed work you make you can see yourself getting better. Its easy to see your improvement when your drawing 6 hours a day vs 6 hours a week.
Finding 40 hours a week is super easy if you are committed...Staying motivated for 40 hours is hella hard.

The hard thing is deciding what direction to take in order to make something that you like but also you can profit from....Having the confidence and drive to do that is what makes art a difficult thing.

>> No.3617967

Because the early stages of any artwork started is extremely frustrating too look at no matter the skill level.

>> No.3618464

>>3617936
>with drawing there's only few people that can really master it.
Lmfao

The only difference between bad artists and good ones is how much time it takes them to finish something. A terrible artist can still make something good if they put 30x as much time into a piece as a skilled artist. A bad programmer can never make a program as good as a programmer who is 30x better than them. They'll literally never figure out how to implement the algorithms.

>> No.3618467
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3618467

>>3617660
I'm confident you've literally never programmed anything of significance in your entire life.

>> No.3618474
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3618474

>>3617337
I've been painting for 2 years. I'll be done painting at 10 years.

Read a fucking book doingus.

>> No.3618489

>>3618464
>The only difference between bad artists and good ones is how much time it takes them to finish something.
That's a good ass line, gonna steal that for future shitposting purposes.

>> No.3618615

>>3616309
IT DEPENDS ON THE GOALS

>going to the gym
If you are looking for lifting big big weights of winning crossfit competitions, then it's hard and time consuming as fuck. Or if you are into bodybuilding and need to fucking roid and eat like a motherfucker. If you only want to "go to the gym", then just fucking go. Because that's easy if you don't have social anxiety.
>guitar
Same. If you want to be a pro, you need to study every fucking day. And train as much as you do with drawing. And the excercises are a fucking chore. And the gains are almost imperceptible. And good equipment is fucking expensive. And there's also the creative and mentally taxing component to write something appealing and interesting if that's what you want to do. But guitar music is fucking dead, so I don't know why would you do that.
If you want to clumsily play wndrwll with a shitty acoustic guitar, then you can do it in a week.
>programming
no fucking idea, but I want to start. Will tell you in a year.

IT DEPENDS ON THE FUCKING GOALS, FUCK

>> No.3618619

>>3617232
>>3616317
>>3617660
anyone can learn to program, not anyone can write good code or actually useful software

>> No.3618621

>>3618619
What constitutes actually useful software

>> No.3618636

>>3618621
Anything that helps you masturbate.

>> No.3618812

>>3616317
going to the gyms easy, working out is hard if you are doing it right.

>> No.3618817

playing the guitar is the same as tracing
composing on the other hand