/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.3505079]

Why CalArts hates Don Bluth and people who draw and animate well in general?

[Anonymous No.3505080]

[Anonymous No.3505085]

>>3505080
"will it be able to prepare you for the modern industry? lazy motion tweening and basedboy aesthetics? :2"

[Anonymous No.3505094]

>>3505080
>will he be teaching modern techniques or the outdated ones
What are modern techniques? Drawing in calarts style and not putting any effort into work? I guess putting effort is outdated for the modern industry

[Anonymous No.3505112]

easier to shit on someone than match them

[Anonymous No.3505137]

>>3505079
>cheesy
>outdated
>overflowy

Don Bluth is a great animator and on top of that, he's a good story teller.

I can't stand Calarts shit anymore. the style and toonboom animation is hideous.
if they're so quick to denounce old style animators, no wonder they come up with shit like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmtbTiZbVYM

[Anonymous No.3505140]

he sure can make pretty drawings, but there are way too many frames in his animation, making everything super slow. He's always tried way too hard to impress. Also he's just a Disney knock-off. Ralph Bakshi made worse movies, but dared much more.

[Anonymous No.3505157]

He rotoscopes

[Anonymous No.3505158]

Really starting to hate this Toniko guy

[Anonymous No.3505163]

>>3505158
Why?
Because he's not white?

Fuck off, racist.

[Anonymous No.3505166]

>>3505163
I used to like his work and think he's a pretty decent artist and animator but the way he conducts himself on social media just irritates me.

+ what you said.

[Anonymous No.3505185]

[Anonymous No.3505197]

>>3505080
Art is turning into an industry and it's fucking disgusting. Lots of "artists" just look to make a nice income by scamming desperate poor students by "sharing their knowledge". I feel sick to my stomach knowing the future of "art"...

[Anonymous No.3505204]

>>3505197
This. Since there are not many high paying jobs going around in the 2D industry, the whole thing is turning into a huge pyramid scheme scam.
Every "professional artist" currently has some sort of mentorship program or is starting a school, and don't even get me started on fucking gumroads.

[Anonymous No.3505233]

>>3505197
>>3505204

What is your fucking problem?

If artists keep their mouth shut, it's "these damn artists are keeping all the secrets to themselves!"
If artists have mentorship programs, gumroads, etc. it's "these damn artists are turning it into an industry!"

.. ahhh, I know!

What offends you is how dare those uppity artists ask money for their time and effort! It's a passion and it should be free!
No matter if they're passionate and maybe want to supplement their low incomes.

[Anonymous No.3505240]

>>3505233
That's not it, i wasn't even picking a particular artist, just the state of things currently. So no worries anon, you can keep jerking it to your favourite artist and pretend like i wasn't talking about him. Regardless, the industry is becoming bloated and less and less people are willing to purchase an actual painting. But somehow more and more courses are coming. This is inevitably all going to crash down, but what kind of moron goes into art to make money right?

[Anonymous No.3505244]

>>3505137
Does CalArts even teach this shit? Seems more like a trend that everyone in the animation industry is following, albeit an obnoxious one.

[Anonymous No.3505258]

>>3505244
I figure CalArts doesn't specifically teach how to draw a dumb template, but they must be teaching a mentality that results in reproducing dumb templates.

[Anonymous No.3505268]

>>3505079
The more I read shit like this the more I am glad that I didn't go to Cal Arts

>>3505080
>will he be teaching modern techniques or the outdated ones

The fuck are the modern techniques? That's like saying we should ignore the drawing techniques of the old masters in favor of Photoshop hacks.

Plus, what made Don Bluth work is not just his animating and aesthetics, but also the stories.

[Anonymous No.3505277]

>>3505240
>the industry is becoming bloated and less and less people are willing to purchase an actual painting.

What the fuck are you talking about? The entertainment industry is bigger than ever before. Obviously no one wants to buy your shitty oil paintings of flower vases, but to pretend that this means there is no demand for professional artists is just ridiculous. I guess all the concept art and illustrations for games, books, movies, card games, tv shows, cartoons etc paint themselves or something?

[Anonymous No.3505357]

>>3505277
I mean...kinda...like 90%
https://youtu.be/CYbYvImd7Bw

[Anonymous No.3505362]

>>3505277
That's peanuts. Easily copied, reproduced, cheated with and typical low bro stuff. Just because you found a fatty who is willing to pay you 30 dollars so you can draw a pony sucking off a big Samoan dude doesn't mean you're an artist. I'm talking about art, you know big boy art.

[Anonymous No.3505382]

>>3505362
literally wizards of the coast. Pays artists for hundreds of traffic-tier digital pieces and anyone can submit a portfolio. The lowest they pay is 750 dollars per piece (for mtg pieces).

When people talk about photobashing in concept art they rarely know what they’re talking about and never have the skill to reproduce shit actually used in the industry

[Anonymous No.3505393]

>>3505080
>modern techniques or the outdated ones
You're animating is fucking flash.

[Anonymous No.3505443]

>>3505393
At least he's not some bland fuck that strives for bourgeois realism

[Anonymous No.3505448]

>>3505443
>bourgeois

[Anonymous No.3505450]

>>3505079
>That entire thread

Oh lordy
https://twitter.com/tonikopantoja/status/1014364616493694976

[Anonymous No.3505460]

I was just thinking the other day about how good 2D animation is pretty much owned by the Japanese now. I don't consider myself a weeb but I'm pretty much only inspired by good anime like FLCL, One Punch Man, Nichijou, Cowboy Bebop, etc because they give a shit about the art and making their shows a pleasure to look at. And I seriously don't see Japan switching to all 3D any time soon.

[Anonymous No.3505464]

>>3505460
I'm actually glad Japan was stubborn about that bit; sticking with 2D. It kinda did set the pacing for those around the world, for sure.

[Anonymous No.3505476]

>>3505460
I don't think 2D animation is going anywhere anytime soon. People always say that 3D will eventually become cost effective enough to the point where it takes over, but presumably similar innovations will happen in 2D alongside that to keep it competitive.

[Anonymous No.3505483]

>>3505079
Isn't it obvious? They're fucking hacks who are threatened by actual talent. If you needed Don Bluth skill to make it industry anymore they'd all be fucked. But the CalArts style is just much more cost effective, so things will probably stay this way in western animation for the foreseeable future.

[Anonymous No.3505490]

>go to $52,000 art school and become mediocre dog animator
>"Don Bluth is charging 10 grand wtf"

Fuck this fag

[Anonymous No.3505491]

>>3505079
Don Bluth's style is the original Cal Arts style though, ironic isn't it?

[Anonymous No.3505501]

>>3505491
Strange, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.3505523]

>>3505460
the west never was into 2d animation, they just liked funny stuff :-)
America loves to take every chance to kick artists, its our weird culture of 'tough love,' as if to say "IF YOU WANNA BE AN ARTIST AND TRY TO REPRESENT OUR CULTURE WELL GOD DAMN YOU GONNA EARN IT BOY"

[Anonymous No.3505528]

>>3505476
I hope non-Flash 2D stays, but I wonder if in years to come those of us who miss the fluid and dynamic way 2D used to be drawn will be compared to the old geezers who thought sound and color in tv was just a fad. Not that that's really a valid comparison, but I don't think most normies give enough a damn about the difference between quality 2D and lazy animation. Animation is just an afterthought to westerners, generally.

[Anonymous No.3505544]

>>3505476
The flaw of this line of thinking is that it assumes 2D animation is somehow obsolete to begin with. That's retarded and misses the point of animation and visual arts in general.

[Anonymous No.3505550]

>>3505528
>Not that that's really a valid comparison
It isn't. Color and sound are types of information, flash and manual drawing are methods.

[Anonymous No.3505552]

>>3505080
>taking 6 classes for 10 grand is the same as a single course for 10 grand
It's not the same.

[Anonymous No.3505554]

>>3505079
What a stupid fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.3505573]

>>3505079
to be fair, don bluth fanboys are usually overweight, dont shower, have metalhead hair, and are really aggressively vocal despite being insufferable and having nothing really valuable to say

You know the type, art school anons.

[Anonymous No.3505592]

>>3505185
what the FUCK

[Anonymous No.3505719]

>>3505362
then don't talk out of your ass about a lack of job opportunities when you are ignoring the biggest industry for artists. Obviously hobbyist tradfags like you can't make a living with their art.

[Anonymous No.3505727]

>>3505258
The mentality in those institutions is to deliver a project quickly and successfully rather than spending a heavy amount of time on it with the potential of being imcomplete.

It's understandable given the nature of the industry (see what happened to thief and the Cobbler). Although projects do get completed, the overall quality regressed as a result. You get very simplistic characters and composition with the same formula and genre.

[Anonymous No.3505881]

>>3505079
that avatar brings me memories.

[Anonymous No.3505886]

>>3505881

[Anonymous No.3505900]

>>3505881
>>3505886
kek

[Anonymous No.3505973]

>>3505881
>>3505886

[Anonymous No.3505990]

>>3505197
>Lots of "artists" just look to make a nice income by scamming desperate poor students by "sharing their knowledge".

Hasn’t it been like that for a couple decades now? Lol

[Anonymous No.3506037]

>>3505990
>decades
When in the modern history of commercial art have artists not made a living teaching art?

>durr why are all these living masters charging money to teach only $52,000 a tear fail farms staffed by fucking nobodies should be allowed to hurr

[Anonymous No.3506039]

>>3506037
*year

Fucking KIKE touchscreen, shake my head

[Anonymous No.3506044]

>>3505079
who the fuck is this Toniko guy? has he ever done anything relevant?

[Anonymous No.3506055]

>>3505973
lol

[Anonymous No.3506058]

>>3505443
>bourgeois realism
You know why the CIA threw money at faggots like Jackson Pollack right?

[Anonymous No.3506065]

>>3506055
and saved

[Anonymous No.3506075]

>>3506055
pretentious and smug as fuck

[Anonymous No.3506083]

As much as I hate CalArts I can only complain about it here. I work for a studio in LA and I’d say 80% of the animators working here went there also the CEO and COO have ties.

As much as the art sucks it’s like a Fraternity attitude. They look at the name more than the art sometimes. “Oh CalArts!?”

[Anonymous No.3506095]

Bluth was considered by Kahl to be one of the only talented "new kids" at Disney.

I wonder if his opinion changed at all once Bluth developed more, but either way when motherfucking Milt Kahl calls you a good animator and potentially a good director, that's some high praise.

[Anonymous No.3506098]

>>3506095
Then I wonder what he meant by this?

[Anonymous No.3506101]

>>3505079
bluth and calarts are both equal levels of recycled junk tho

[Anonymous No.3506107]

>>3506098
Two ways:

Bluth changed.

or

Bluth was similar Kahl (which is why Kahl would point him out) when it came to dealing with other artists . The if you're not good enough then you're going to hear it

[Anonymous No.3506109]

>>3506107
>>3506098
One more quote for the road

[Anonymous No.3506114]

>>3506107
>The if you're not good enough then you're going to hear it

The thread that OP posted apparently has a student in there where several people complained about Bluth's teaching methods due to lack of feedback and not being honest. Maybe something did change.

[Anonymous No.3506115]

>>3506114
Well I think Bluth being in a teaching position for people paying him 10k is a bit different from him working in a studio environment. Maybe he just thought it was a better idea to not shit on the bad students.

[Anonymous No.3506117]

>>3505443
So commies can meme after all.

[Anonymous No.3506118]

>>3506115
Yea, you might be right.

[Anonymous No.3506120]

>>3506058
Red pill me on this conspiracy theory anon.

[Anonymous No.3506149]

>>3506120
Not a conspiracy theory, it's all been confirmed. The Congress for Cultural Freedom was a CIA backed project that funded and promoted artists like Pollock as a counter to Soviet Realism.

[Anonymous No.3506150]

>>3506114
There was some guy that posted a critique from Bluth on a character design on youtube and it seemed fine to me (though I don't personally think Bluth's design was necessarily better than the artist's-for the record I think that is understandable simply because character design is a very subjective and esoteric concept), but the thing is the artist in question disappeared from the internet after that.

Bluth will not be able to magically make someone better at drawing or ANYTHING overnight and it's unfair to expect that from anybody. Of course the bad students are going to get a pat on the head and encouragement, he's not like /ic/ or something like that-he'll tell his paying students what they need to work on politely and continue on with the more advanced ones.

[Anonymous No.3506152]

Does anyone have that old image that showcased a famous animator (think it was Bluth) doing a seminar and being begged by the students to show them a walk cycle? I can't find it anywhere.

[Anonymous No.3506162]

>>3506152
It was Williams. I have it on my computer but I don't have access to it right now. It's also in this mega from the /loomis/ 8gag board somewhere I think

https://mega.nz/#F!es1BSKQR!spODyd0iaQmMelGA2GscFw

[Anonymous No.3506225]

>>3506107
was Clyde Geronimi really that bad?

[Anonymous No.3506301]

>>3505185
I'm sorry, but this hack isn't even close to Brian O'Malley's work. Is this something from CalArts?

[Anonymous No.3506376]

>>3506301
Yes
http://stulivingston.blogspot.ca/2012/10/life-drawing-for-animation-demoz.html

[Anonymous No.3506432]

>>3506376
>Those comments

Well.... okay then...

[Anonymous No.3506437]

>>3505460
I may get shit for this, but the animation in OK K.O. is low-key really nice, especially in fight scenes, but it's pretty expressive outside of fights too. Maybe not on the level of Japanese stuff, but they do have some ambition at least.
Studio Yotta does really nice work too, I wish they could do an entire animated series.

[Anonymous No.3506440]

>>3506437
I honestly feel the same way about that show, but the ultra simplistic designs are enough to drive me insane

[Anonymous No.3506536]

>>3506055
Beautiful.

[Anonymous No.3506585]

>>3505268
>Plus, what made Don Bluth work is not just his animating and aesthetics, but also the stories.
>the stories
I grew up with Bluth and still have a soft spot for his movies, but his storytelling's pretty hit or miss for me. There's almost always something weird tossed into his movies that's uncanny in retrospect, like the whole stripping scene in Thumbelina.

[Anonymous No.3506594]

>>3506095
Bluth is a Milt Kahl worshiper. I think Kahl was just too flattered to give any real crits.

[Anonymous No.3506788]

>Don Bluth was a fantastic animator
>his quality only went downhill after his wife died and he fucking lost it
>Cal Arts mocks him for this

You know I didn't care for the art style that comes out of this place but the people they're creating are fucking awful.

[Anonymous No.3506806]

>>3506055
this is gonna make /co/ mad again

[Anonymous No.3506855]

>>3505157
Secret of Nihm still look amazing, and doesn't even feature humans.

[Anonymous No.3506916]

>>3505079
>>3505080
Toniko, noo!

[Anonymous No.3507008]

I wonder how /co/ feels about this topic.

[Anonymous No.3507018]

>>3507008
Ever since the CalArts meme got REALLY popular, I haven't been able to bother to go to that board. Waiting for things to settle some more (even though people are usually pissy about everything western animation over there).