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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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3501015 No.3501015 [Reply] [Original]

Drawing is not just a learned skill. Sure, anyone can learn to draw but to have real proficiency in being an artist, requires innate talent. People who get jobs doing games, movies, and other artistic areas often have a few characteristics that make them stand out from someone who doesn't have innate talent but only learned. Gifted artists, those with innate talent, can produce quality work quickly. Gifted artists don't need time to plan out their art. For example, a non gifted artist can look at a picture of something one time and draw it from many different angles accurately and quickly. Their natural ability to visualize is far superior to anything someone who just "learned to draw" can do. Take the human camera for example...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdgP6Wp2ZOs

Guy is autistic as fuck but he can draw exceptionally well and accurately from memory. You think Ruan Jia, for example, and people like him don't have innate talent that can't be learned. Well you are mistaken.

I've been drawing for like 4 years - trying to teach myself. It's just that the God given gift for it is not there. I have to work 10x harder for a result thats not even half as good as someone who's gifted...someone who barely put any mental energy into it. They're just like "heyy im gonna draw this for fun" then they produce a near masterpiece that took like 3 hours. I could spend 10 hours on something and it still looks like a little kid did it.

I'm just saying, before you put your time into this art thing, make sure you have the natural talent to pull it off.

>> No.3501017

>>3501015
So? Just because someone do it faster than you and it take you longer to pull it off then you should just quit?
Are you really that dumb?

>> No.3501019

>>3501017
/thread

>> No.3501020

>>3501017
Nah, he trying to make the whiners and /beg/ tiers to quit earlier to clear the competition

>> No.3501021

>>3501015
sucks to be you, OP. Now that you finally figured out that art is not for you, will you also take the last step and stop coming to /ic/? We have so many hopeless souls stuck in limbo who don't draw but seemingly can't stop posting about art related stuff. Don't be like them, move on. Find happiness somewhere else.

>> No.3501045

>>3501015
>I have to work 10x harder for a result

People who claim this, 100% of the time only draw a good 5 hours a week.

Nice try, OP. How about actually practicing and getting gud.

>> No.3501055

>>3501015
>tfw 0 talent
>drew all day every day
>Got gud in 4 years

Sounds like you're just retarded, OP.

>> No.3501061

>>3501015
Bullshit, the post.

>> No.3501121

Artists being gifted or talented is pretty much a romantic idea. Before that, it was usually seen as a skill or a trade, and young were just sent to old masters to practise and learn.

Also, not doing something because someone else is better is stupid. There's always going to be someone that's better than you, no matter what you do.

>> No.3501132

>>3501015
drawing is 95% reflex, and the other 5% of knowledge of anatomy and perspective.

>> No.3501139

>>3501015
Kek OP 2/10 for making me respond.

>> No.3501142

>>3501132
wtf do you mean by reflex?

I kick you in the knee and you shit out the sistine chapel as a defense mechanism?

>> No.3501144

>>3501142
probly meant intuition/visual library memory

>> No.3501150

>>3501142
no, I mean muscle memory, doing something so much that it is stored the unconscious part of the brain to be called upon when needed
drawing a line a way becomes a reflex, as you get more of the reflexes, you become a better artist.
this doesn't mean your art will start to say something or have meaning, but it will be better quality-wise

>> No.3501152

the real shit is this "innate talent" is just being extremely visual. Being able to understand form/color/light by just seeing things and translating it to the canvas. and you may think youre very visual and you have grandiose pictures in your head that you cant put on the canvas, but that's your mind tricking you. you cant draw the pictures you have in your head because the pictures in your head are actually UNFINISHED. you compensate for this by building your visual library with studies. some people can fill their visual library just by observation, which happens exponentially as they grow up. obviously this "visual" trait exists at varying degrees too.

>> No.3501190
File: 44 KB, 347x640, 775677-riiko_4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3501190

This may be true, but does this really, REALLY matter at the end of the day?
I don't like someone like Masamune Shirow because of their "innate talent at art", I like him because Ghost in the Shell is a good manga. If someone told me that Masamune Shirow started out as a horrible artist, and took 5 years to learn how to draw the human figure, would I really give a shit? No. I'm just happy that Ghost in the Shell got made. I don't care how it was done.

If this autist made a cool cyberpunk manga, then he'd capture my attention. For now, I am momentarily impressed by his artistic skill, and I will probably forget his name by 5pm today.

>> No.3501690

>>3501015
>been drawing for the last 3 years
>Hardly ever do anything, maybe 5-8 actual drawings a year. maybe 20 total.
>never grinded anything or really did any studying at all
>not bad

>> No.3501853

OP is right. the ones disagreeing with him are currently coping with the fact that they havent improved at all in ages despite putting in 168 hours a week towards drawing.

>> No.3502008

>>3501015
You're fucking stupid. A savant is an exceptional case and it's not a talent to be mentally defective.
Four years and nothing? Plenty has progressed a lot in six months of you really push it.

>> No.3502014

>>3501015
>Practicing for 4 years with no results

Bullshit. Wheres your proof?

>> No.3502048

>>3501190
ghost in the shell is a mediocre manga, it's a great movie, and everything else based on it, even that weird magical girl loli thing are good, but the manga is only okay, appleseed is better.

>> No.3502143

>>3501015
hello /sci/! bringing your depressive mood and obsession with IQ here too eh ?

>> No.3502187

All these external sources for good drawings are usually people who havn't put in the work. People, like OP, put in minimal effort and expect to be on the same people who make sacrifices to kindle their skill.

These talent threads are defense mechanisms that people put out for themselves to alleviate responsibility for their poor decisions.

OP, we don't know you, we don't know who you are or what you have been through. The only person that can hold you responsible is yourself, no one else can. You can either avoid the issue and continue to believe you are not at fault or you can start holding yourself accountable to your shortcomings. Be honest with yourself, OP, because the only person it affects is you,

Good luck, OP. I hope you continue your artistic journey.

>> No.3502352

>>3502187
>These talent threads are defense mechanisms that people put out for themselves to alleviate responsibility for their poor decisions.

on the other side, talent deniers use the negation of talent to assure themselves that their lack of skill is a matter of choice, "I could if I wanted too, I just have to decide to put in the work"...

So they can keep dreaming that they could be anything if they only put the work in.

And with exceptional determination, this is true to a great extent, but that kind of determination is as rare as talent itself, and talent is very real.

>> No.3502354

>>3501690
Post work pls

>> No.3502374

>>3501015
The person who shits it out in 3 hours "for fun" has thousands more hours experience than you do of actually working on pieces.

Do more.

>> No.3502377

>>3501015
Black pill terribles. Loners are the worst for this sort of theory.

>> No.3502389

>>3502377
Huh?

>> No.3502416
File: 950 KB, 1280x4024, talent.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3502416

OP is correct.

>> No.3502421

Talent does not exist. If you suck you're either not motivated, or too stupid to learn skills in general.

>> No.3502424

>>3501015
Wrong. The thing I like about art is, there’s piano prodigies, there’s chess prodigies, there’s math prodigies, but there’s no art prodigies, none that have produced work that would get a second glance now days.
Comfy feels.

>> No.3502428

>>3502424
Second thoughts on this... a pro piano player, or a pro mathematician might consider the prodigies gimicky like art peeps do.

>> No.3502431

>>3501142
lmao

>> No.3502433

I think that talent truly does exist even though it may not be quantifiable-- however, only at the top 1% or so of a given field. So when you're in the top 1% curse god for your lack of talent. Until then, we should work harder.

>> No.3502438

No matter how much you practice some things are just physically impossible to do for brains that lack the capabilities.

It's a fucking joke that people thing talent is just being able to learn faster.

>> No.3502440

>>3502416
Not really. Sports is completely different from art. Art is not some 1 on 1 contest or is judged by some olympic judges giving it scores and the guy who gets a perfect 10 in anatomy, perspective, composition, rendering etc gets to call himself the world champion of art or some shit. Hell, hardly anyone even cares all that much about technical skill anymore, which is why faggots like you always get so mad all the time when you see a mediocre or outright bad artist who still managed to have made a successful career out of it.

>> No.3502442

>>3502438
>No matter how much you practice some things are just physically impossible to do for brains that lack the capabilities.
Sure, but in regards to art, those are a very, very marginal percentage of the human population. There are more people who lack the capability to learn to drive than there are people who lack the capability to learn to draw. You don't start going around driving schools and tell people "what's the point in learning to drive? Unless you have talent, you'll never be as good as a formula 1 driver." do you?

>> No.3502445

>>3502416
You didn't get the point of akuma.
He has astigmatism so he can never truly be good at ping pong, it's not about talent or the work you put in.
He's in a negative state. They are things in life which are pointless to fight against, accept it and move on.

>> No.3502451

>>3502445
Why can't he be good if he is wearing glasses?

t. never seen it but have astigmatism.

>> No.3502463

Talent is real, some people are simply better. The problem with that fact is that since it's true it's an incredibly convenient excuse for weak people to give up, people who could actually be pretty decent at the given field if only they weren't such huge pussies.
It's important to know when it's lack of talent what's actually limiting you, and it's difficult for you to be the judge of it since if you want out you're going to be slightly biased.

>> No.3502488

>>3502442
It's not about the capabilities to learn how to draw. No one decent cares about something as basic as that or even questions the possibilities. We don't need to talk about the bottom feeders who already question their existence because they can't learn how to draw anime titties.

Most expert qualities will never be attainable by the average student. Most will never even break trough the masses of semi decent artists. Talent matters less the more shallow your goals are.

>> No.3502489

>>3502451
Give up kid, table tennis is beyond your reach

>> No.3502502

It annoys me how weak bitches attempt to destroy the concept of talent just because they are too afraid to face reality. If you don't like that something like talent exists then ignore the concept and never try to argue about it again. You are free to ignore it but don't try to push your delusional agenda regarding the concept and how it works. It is true that most people work far better when they completely dismiss this concept and just concentrate on improving just like people work better when they ignore the fact that they are mortal and will die some day. But this doesn't give you the right to say that death does not exist.

>> No.3502513

>>3502352
I think the greatest problem with talent deniers is that they only focus on the technical aspect. Only drawing what they know and what they see, not what they feel, which leads to lifeless, boring pieces. I'm so sick of lifeless, boring art. If you ever wonder why that shitty teen on tumblr is gaining more traction than your perfectly measured and rendered pieces, it's because they have soul.

Art is jazz, not pop music.

>> No.3502626

>>3502502
>If you don't like that something like talent exists then ignore the concept and never try to argue about it again.
Then stop making threads about it, you dumbass. It's always you "muh talent" fags who can't shut up about it. I have never once seen anyone make a thread trying to convince others that talent isn't real, only people reacting whenever someone like you whines about not being talented yet again.

>> No.3502628

>>3501142
shh don't spill the secret

>> No.3502634

>>3502513
But that's exactly the argument of the "talent deniers". That talent is not nearly as important as some people pretend it is and the most important thing about art is to have something meaningful and interesting to express.

>> No.3502639

>>3502502
talent is being used by weak-willed people as an excuse for lazyness. It's literally the same argument as a morbidly obese person saying they can't lose weight because muh genetics. Obviously some people will be better than you due to natural aptitude, some people will be worse, but that's not the fucking point. Unless you have a serious mental or physical disability, there is nothing stopping you from becoming a decent artist, regardless of talent.

>> No.3502645 [DELETED] 

>>3501017
Fpbp

>>3501020
I like that idea

>> No.3502651

>talent deniers
You know how to BTFO them? Ask to post 20 artists who
>started late
>never draw in their childhood
>didn't had artistic parents (with proofs)
>100% self taught without any art schools (with proofs)
>no one helped them (with proofs)

>> No.3502653

>>3502626
>I have never once seen anyone make a thread trying to convince others that talent isn't real
Then you are fresh off reddit. Lurk 1 year first before posting.

>> No.3502659

>>3502651
huh? Wouldn't that prove the exact opposite, that it's mostly hard work and effort from an early age and not talent? Because if talent played such a huge role, then there should be plenty of very talented people who started late in life and completely made up for a lack of experience, lack of mentors, lack of formal education etc and succeeded despite that because of their immense talent.

>> No.3502665

>>3502659
The point is that those type of people are in minority. Especially among famous "big" artists

>> No.3502671

>>3502665
exactly, but why did you say that would BTFO talent deniers when it is an argument for the exact opposite?

>> No.3502686

>>3502671
That guy is retarded. Talent is real but his examples.
>started late
Time.
>didn't have artistic parents
Hard wired influence. (part of talent)
>100% self taught without any art schools
Instruction.
>no one helped them
Instruction.

Only one of those is part of talent.

>> No.3502687

>>3501015
Yeah, he has a special gift, but that doesn't mean he didn't work hard. He probably put in more hours into drawing than most of us.

>> No.3502691

>>3502686
Not so. That can be mean that those people achieved success because of talent too. They were born with artistic talent, but did't developed it because of reasons.
>>3502686
>Only one of those is part of talent.
Why they're in minority? Explain. And still want to see 20 artists who
>started late
>never draw in their childhood
>didn't had artistic parents (with proofs)
>100% self taught without any art schools (with proofs)
>no one helped them (with proofs)
right now in this thread

>> No.3502702

>>3502691
There is no need to make it so complicated. People progress at different speeds even when given the same instruction and time. Everyone that is not retarded has observed this countless of times in life.

>> No.3502999

The problem is that people think that art is something that you should compare to others.

>> No.3503301

>>3501015
Bait

>> No.3503316

>>3501015
weeee another bait

>> No.3503988

>>3503316
>>3503301
and you ate it

>> No.3503990

post work from when you were 13 and tell me how hot shit your art was.

you cant because youve (presumably) only improved since then. if you can learn past that point theres no reason why someone else ant learn it later. if anything tha-

oh its a bait thread nvm

>> No.3504032

The secret ingredient is autism. I'm not even joking

>> No.3504059
File: 25 KB, 569x428, consider_the_following.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

>hard work

The real talent is being able to enjoy the process.

It's like when you play a video game you enjoy playing it and don't just enter a cheat code to skip to the ending. Sometimes there are tedious parts like when you need to repeat a level like 100 times before you can defeat the boss or do some tricky jumps or solve a hard puzzle or do a lot of legwork but you still don't have to force yourself because you have this inherent desire to play.

I imagine that's how talented people feel. Yeah they are good because they practice several hours every day but they don't have to force themselves like the people here who complain about having no motivation.

>> No.3504361

>>3502651

cryptcrawler fits the bill

>> No.3504382

>>3502513
>marketing, knowing your audience, knowing the appeal of your art and the focus is having "soul" now
Why do I bother with /ic/ lads?

>> No.3504390

>>3502651
Lol brainlet, posting people like this would actually argue in favor of talent

>> No.3504435

>>3504059
>The real talent is being able to enjoy the process.

Holy shit, this!

>> No.3504552

>>3502653
>Lurk more
Just an excuse to avoid the topic at hand. Not that anon, but i've been browsing /ic/ for almost 4 years and I only ever seen maybe 1 or 2 threads dismiss the concept of talent versus one thread every week about how its useless to compete against talented individuals. Just face, weather talent exist within the realm of art is up for debate, but your just a whiney faggot that doesn't want to do anything but jerk off to hentai and play video games all fucking day. You just want to shitpost instead of putting hard work in. You will never be anything of worth, irregardless of talent because your a greasy shitposting, inbred faggot

>> No.3504563

>>3504552
>i've been browsing /ic/ for almost 4 years
ooh, can't wait to see what your work looks like

>> No.3506090

>>3501015
nice trolling. it's just what savants do

>> No.3506210

>>3501015
"Natural talent" here.
All of the shit you said is just a coping mechanism for people that don't have the will or the brains to learn.
I haven't seen a single person put the work and not improve in real life, but I have met plenty of guys that half ass everything and want to believe they tried as hard as the rest.

Drawing quickly, drawing from any angle, improvising, those are all things I had to learn. If I didn't read and studied I would of never learned. You guys like to pretend other artists are just born with that knowledge, but the reality is that the earliest the work the shittier it becomes, for almost any artist.

Also, the fact that you asume art is easy for those who are better than you just goes to show a mentality that doesn't want to really try. You seem to be under the delusion that no one could of tried harder than you, and if you think that, chances are that you didn't try hard at all.

>> No.3507162
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3507162

OP is right. Can anyone here honestly say that when drawing something they NEVER felt that something was missing inside them, that if it, whatever it is, was present, they would be able to breeze through the drawing? I really doubt it. When you have talent , everything makes sense faster, all the learning blocks that you studied will come together easily for you to create a great work.

It is pretty clear when a drawing was made by a hardworking artist or a talented one.

>> No.3507173

>>3507162
>breeze through the drawing
This never happens to anyone. Every artists struggles when creating their art, even someone who is exponentially more skilled compared to your pleb asses is making exponentially better work than you ever could and dealing with a whole different set of problems they have to push though.

Why don't you guys go watch videos by actually working artists, plenty of youtube channels have interviews with them. Listen to the shit they talk about rather than just sitting in your basement musing about the world of art with little more than an echo chamber and your dick in your hand.

How the fuck would anyone of you morons know if talent is real or not anyway? none of you go outside, interact with the artist community in person or even make your own damn art. We're all supposed to take your anecdotal essay on talent as the word of god?

Yikes, I'd hate to be trapped in that brain of yours.

>> No.3507190

Its the same thing as any other field.
There's some people that will just be naturally talented and progress faster than you, however anybody can get to a professional level relatively easily just by putting in the work. The skill difference between someone who worked hard and someone who is talented is really only noticeable at those extremely high levels, and for these its still easy to form "countermeasures" to deal with your lack of talent. In things like art, being able to do new and interesting subject matter or try different things can make up for your lack in art technique. Interesting and new ideas will make up for the lack of technical skill. Kim jung gi is one of the most overrated artists here because he has the technical skill, but his other abilities are lacking. His art isn't all that interesting and the composition is shit. People will far less talent than him are capable of producing far more appealing works of art.