/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.3446531]

How expensive is painting in watercolor?
How to get started for cheap?

[Anonymous No.3446540]

>>3446531
Very cheap compared to other traditional methods. For around $30 tops you can get all you need.

Get decent brushes, which go for around $1 each give or take. You only need like 5 of varying sizes.

The paint, get it in a tube. Get:
Yellow
Cadmium Red (warm red)
Magenta (cool red)
Cyan Blue (warm blue)
Ultramarine (cool blue)
Black

And that's all you really need. Mix your colors obviously. For white, white of the paper, and if you wanna create highlights, use white gouache.

Paper, you want cotton-base, very thick, and water absorbant. Make sure it's cotton if you just ask for "watercolor paper." Feel the texture, it should feel a bit rough. You can ask for it in large sheets to save money. For like $10 you can get a whole bunch You can then cut those up into small 30x30cm squares to practice on. That should make it last.

[Anonymous No.3446541]

>>3446540
Oh yeah, make sure the brushes are made from camel hair.

[Anonymous No.3446542]

>>3446531
Can i get these from some local "art" shop or do i need to order online?
All they sell here is koh i noor and some faber castell

[Anonymous No.3446543]

>>3446542
Fuck, ment this >>3446540
not this >>3446531

[Anonymous No.3446549]

>>3446540
don't get tubes like this fool is suggesting, just get a set of pans

[Anonymous No.3446552]

>>3446531
I've been painting in WC for 6 years now.
If you already know your values through drawing, then start off with a tube of burnt sienna & ultramarine blue from Winsor & Newton. This gives you a black from the two mixed, and can go warm or cool.
Good paper can be cheap, I still use 200lb Bockingford a lot. It doesn't curl up so I don't stretch it.
Brushes, there is no getting around sable being the best for keeping a point, but most of the time you don't need that. I use the Raven synthetic mops from Jackson's in the UK a lot right now, the smallest size is large enough to start with.

Here is an excellent channel on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7VBDyMy6adIMVVnYEpCAjQ

[Anonymous No.3446555]

>>3446549
Or get the best of both worlds by buying a compact empty pan, filling it with those 6 tube colors he listed, and letting it dry

[Anonymous No.3446564]

>>3446542
Art shop is better, you want certain brands. I get Cotman, that's that I'd recommend. But yeah, you can find them online in certain shops.

Also, I recommend you buy yourself a set of Prismacolor watercolor color pencils to help you give an extra, umph to your work. They work really great together.

Also, don't listen to this retard >>3446549

The pros never use pans, they use tubes for a reason. It helps preserve the quality of your paints over long periods of time, and it makes it easier to mix them, as well as allowing you to use less water to draw the paint, which makes your stuff more vivid. Pans are literally for children.

This anon >>3446555 has the right idea. Get yourself a nice plastic pallete, and you can let the paint dry on there for future use. It should last you a couple weeks that way, depending on your climate. Just add more water, and you can keep going. Also, if the paint is getting too dilluted, just add more paint from your tubes. Which is another reason tubes are better, if you start running out of one paint, you can just buy a single tube for like $2-4. Whereas if you start running out of a color with a pan, you gotta buy a whole new pan.

[Anonymous No.3446574]

What's the most compact setup I can get away with? I wanted something I could chuck into my backpack and use during some of the long gaps I have between classes.

Was thinking of just tube primaries, palette with a lid, and empty ink bottle to wash in, and a foldable brush. Which size should I get for the brush if I were to only bring one?

[Anonymous No.3446575]

>>3446564
>The pros never use pans, they use tubes for a reason.
OP isn't a pro yet
>It helps preserve the quality of your paints over long periods of time
why should OP care? his first hundred works will be garbage not worth preserving
>Whereas if you start running out of a color with a pan, you gotta buy a whole new pan.
what do you mean? if you spend a pan just buy another one. or do you mean the set? you dont need to buy a whole new one

[Anonymous No.3446578]

>>3446574
just get one of these, clean the brush against your hand and you are good to go

[Anonymous No.3446580]

>>3446574
pans fucking pans. jesus. why would you use tubes if you want compact. it's like you people are tube crazy!

[Anonymous No.3446581]

>>3446564
Pros never use pans.....

Turner wants a word with you, sonny.

[Anonymous No.3446583]

>>3446564
Cotman “”””””red”””””” is shit though. Other colours are fine

[Anonymous No.3446587]

>>3446581
Although saying that, here is one of my pan palette's, it's not like above >>3446580

[Anonymous No.3446593]

>>3446581
yeah but we're talking about beginners here....

[Anonymous No.3446599]

OP, just get a student-grade box with no more than 12 colors.
Winsor & Newton has a couple that aren't too expensive.
Just don't cheap out on paper, bad paper makes painting a chore especially with all the water you end up using.

Oh and just buy 1 or 2 synthetic brushes.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes, don't try to force things, when you are just starting out, try to understand how to paint and water behaves.

[Anonymous No.3446603]

>>3446587
I mean why not anon. Buy like acouple half-pans, fill em with tube paint, and fit that shit into an Altoids can. It's cheap and economical as shit. What? you don't like saving money or something?

[Anonymous No.3446615]

>>3446603
why! why pour tubes into pans, just buy fucking pans, they're like $10 for 18 colors and they last for ages.

[Anonymous No.3446702]

>>3446531
It's fairly expensive upfront. You'll have to spend at least 80 bucks

[Anonymous No.3446742]

>>3446540
what's with these prices? UK?
the lowest set of pans here that isn't made for 10 year old school art is $30. brushes are minimum $4 each. and watercolor paper at the lowest grade is $0.5/sheet.

[Anonymous No.3446745]

>>3446531
It's probably the cheapest from all methods of traditional painting.

>>3446540
I'd also add ochre and green just to make things more simple. Also I strongly recommend to skip black because ignoring black is really good habit for painter.

>>3446541
Squirrel is fine too. Also I liked square sythetic brush because it was basically the same I'm using in photoshop.

>>3446578
Those meme brushes with reservoir are fucking retarded bullshit.

Don't forget a wooden tablet. 30x40 should be good for starter.
Get you paper wet, press it against some smooth surface with tablet, fix the paper with pins on side and back faces of a tablet.
This saves your paper from getting bumpy from water and makes your work more comfortable in general.

[Anonymous No.3446747]

>>3446742
Rubbish.
I have this amongst my sets of paints, it's excellent with high quality paint & great for beginners 7 on the move
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sennelier-Aqua-Mini-Artists-Watercolour-Pocket-Set-Artists-Paint-Set/351647102619?hash=item51dfccf69b:g:pLwAAOSwFMZWtKLD

[Anonymous No.3446849]

>>3446745
based stitch poster

[Anonymous No.3447130]

>>3446745
>Also I liked square sythetic brush

Me too, I spend like 20 bucks on a good square brush and it's on the larger size too and it's a joy to use, filling large areas with wet paint just feels damn good.

Though I couldn't really justify spending so much on a single brush considering my skill level, I'm still glad I did.

[Anonymous No.3447220]

>>3446745
How are water brushes a meme? They're convenient, with the only downside being that it takes a little time to learn how to control the water flow from the reservoir.

[Anonymous No.3447247]

25€ can get you going for sure.
Highly recommend these Van Gogh Watercolor ,12 colors set.Will last you.
for brushes get som cheap shit as they will get fucked pretty quick. I buy mine at the Chinese store, 3 different sized brushes for 1€ .
paper is actually the most expensive thing,you just have to browse around.

>>3446599

Please stay away from Winsor & Newton watercolors, they are unsaturated and washed out

[Anonymous No.3447364]

>>3446531

Very, Very, cheap.

Those little tubes of paint will last for ages if you use them right.

Paper's not too bad either, depending on what you buy.

Get decent brushes.

[Anonymous No.3447368]

>>3446747
which is over $50 once converted to my country's currency. lel

[Anonymous No.3447653]

>>3447220
It absolutely sucks ass for large color wash gradients.

[Anonymous No.3448220]

>>3447247
Yeah don't use those W&N paints that people such as Zubkvic & Castagnet use, they've never made any vibrant paintings, & there're NGMI....

[Anonymous No.3448222]

>>3447368
I said earlier in the thread a newbie only needs burnt sienna & ultramarine blue to start with, to get used to using the materials. This is a good starter set. And 20 GBP converts to 26 USD.

[Anonymous No.3448242]

>>3446531
Just get one of those cheap ass russian watercolor 12 pan sets they sell on ebay like St Petersburg White Nights, they are great for starting out, they are surprisingly good considering it's price. You won't fear of "wasting" the paint whenever things don't work out the way you want, also you won't become biased by brand loyalty later on this way either. What you need to care about however, is getting broad brushes. Flat, mop, anything that covers great areas for washes and blocking colors, 8,10,12 should be fine numbers to look on, and one or two medium-small brushes for details, sable or pointed round 5 or 6 should do, synthetic hair is a nice and easy to find brush type to buy.

[Anonymous No.3448515]

>>3448242
Slav reporting in.
I'm using these https://www.amazon.com/SONNET-WATERCOLOURS-Russian-Nevskaya-Palitra/dp/B01N4X2N6O/
Cheap and saturated as fuck.

[Anonymous No.3449179]

>>3446540
A decent brush is gonna cost a little more than $1.

That's a shit palette for a beginner. Just no.

See this:
https://www.lydiamakepeace.com/blog/basic-watercolor-palette-12-essential-colors

You DO NOT use white with watercolor, and you don't need and shouldn't use black. Watercolor is a transparent medium, and you should be using darker values of color, not black.

Your advice on watercolor paper is just as useless. A pad of gummed 90lb watercolor, by Arches or any of the bigger brands like Canson is fine to get started with. Large sheets are a waste for beginners, as they're more expensive and higher quality than they need, especially for practicing on and not creating finished work. Most watercolor paper is cotton, by the way, asking for cotton watercolor paper is like asking for bananas made of bananas.

I've never seen nor heard of camel hair brushes - sable and badger are fine. The ones to avoid are synthetics.

Have you actually ever watercolored? You just gave the worst advice I've ever seen for beginner gear.

[Anonymous No.3449180]

>>3446564
You like talking out of your ass, don't you?

>pros never use pans, they use tubes for a reason.
So what did the masters use, before tube paint was invented?

Oh, that's right - pans.

[Anonymous No.3451478]

Bumping this thread.
I was thinking of getting the Van Gogh Giftbox Set, which includes a "Van Gogh Watercolor Pocket Box (12 half pans) and a 10×7" Canson Montval Watercolor Field book." Anyone know if this is a good idea? It's only 40 bucks, so it seems like a good deal.

[Anonymous No.3451484]

>>3446540
>>3449179
Damn, who to believe? How is a beginner supposed to know who is in the right?

[Anonymous No.3452289]

He OP, I do water color but I don't think I'm exactly super good at it. This may be a tl;dr
My advice is to not get cheap materials at all. The student grade stuff is actually more expensive in the long run then using the highest end paint and paper. The reason being you will use more of the low end paint and it IMO it encourages sloppy work because you don't value it/treat it as throwaway.
Your most valuable investment will be your brushes, WN brushes are a high standard so don't skimp on them.

The WN Canson paper/paint is garbage, I wound't even give it to a pre-preschoolers/kindergarten art class, crayola is better its that bad.

Winsor Newton professional or Daniel Smith are all great paints. I'm kinda autistic about collecting paint just to see how it looks so I'm switching to WN. As far as the Pans vs the Tubes debate, I honestly don't see a difference other then you can make pans yourself if you wish. Personally I use a pallet that has interchangeable seal able pots you can buy at the dollar store (pic) related. That way you can keep your paint moist and swap out your pallet on the fly without having to clean it and waste paint.
I would use the 150lb Arches cold pressed paper since its super good and really easy to work with as a beginner.

Hot pressed paper is really smooth and has no "bite", which means its harder to work with but great for doing painting with multiple layers, you can get really cool effects with it.
300lb paper is really think and expensive but you can paint on both sides if you wish with it.

When you're doing any work esp with WC, I would take breaks every 10mins to let your paint dry to layer it and kinda refresh your mind too. Remember WC is all about layering. Also make sure to tape down your paper and stretch it out before working or it will warp and fuck up your painting.

[Anonymous No.3452295]

>>3452289
Oh yeah as far as white is concerned, there really isn't "white" per say. There is opaque white which can increase the opaqueness of colors/pastels but it's really the same thing as Gouche which is opaque watercolor paint.
You can also get Masking Fluid which can cover up protect unpainted surfaces or other surfaces that you don't want to paint over. It's great for preserving whites for things like seafoam and waves when you do ocean scenes.

[Anonymous No.3452300]

>>3451484
Exactly, this thread is a fucking mess. It literally cannot be this comlicated. I'm sure either are fine, these guys have been doing this for a while and have higher standard for this sort of thing.

I can't see it being a horrible experience using sub par stuff when just learning.

[Anonymous No.3452463]

>>3451484
>not using blacks
Best point of the whole thread.
>pans vs tubes
Bullshit.
>rocket science of choosing paper
Absolute bullshit.
>brushes
Just ask for whatever is well-suited for watercolor in your local art supply store. Then try different ones.
>minimalistic set of Blue/Red/Yellow
Not exactly obligatory for beginner, but inevitable thing that massively helps to understand color theory.

[Anonymous No.3452653]

>>3452463
>no blacks
What exactly is so bad about using black?

[Anonymous No.3452898]

>>3452653
There is nothing wrong with using black rather it's the way its used.
Without getting too much into philosophical color theory there really isn't such a thing as pure "black" even interstellar void isn't black. Painting to the observer black is simply the absence of light and white is reflection of light.
In water color unlike oil or acrylic you start from light to dark. Since nothing really is pure black its just a darker shade of whatever color you are using, basically a level of grey. You can get close to black but it just in theory a really dark shade of grey.

You can use black/Neutral tint and paynes grey but you are using a crutch if you do so.

[Anonymous No.3452910]

>>3452653
It's useless. It's not even a color. Painting is all about the balance of warms and cools. Relationship between colors. You don't use black to desaturate your paints because you do it with adding complementary pigment. You don't use it to show shadows because you have cooler tones for it. You don't use it to have darker color because paints are just dark enough on their own.
Whatever you use black for, it's going to be a painting equivalent of symbol drawing.

[Anonymous No.3453332]

>>3452898
>>3452910
How do you guys feel about using white then? Not for highlights, but for lightening colors. Specifically neutrals

[Anonymous No.3453337]

>>3452653
It's a crutch, and visually unappealing. A painting should mimic life, where true solid black is rare, and you should creating shadows that have color in them, ie. darker values of hue. It also flattens the painting out - part of the goal of painting, at least in traditional, is creating the illusion of depth, and black flattens the image. Warm and cool shadows don't.
If you're doing anime style with linework, it's fine, but for traditional you shouldn't use it, or use it very sparingly.

[Anonymous No.3453338]

>>3452910
Fuck this stupid sexy guy fucking asshole fuck him that cunt

[Anonymous No.3453340]

>>3452463
no, the blue red yellow thing sucks for watercolors, it's bad advice. you use the closest pigments to whatever you want on the page

[Anonymous No.3453341]

>>3453332
White is also not encouraged, you use the white of the paper to establish your brightest values - it's one of the things that makes watercolors hard to master. If you want to use white, get gouache, it's perfectly fine then. Learn to lift paint off the paper while it's still wet with a sponge or towel or washes with clear water instead of using a crutch like white - and most white watercolors aren't opaque, so they won't cover up anyway, and fade fast.
If you have trouble keeping spots in your paintings free from paint, tape them off, or use liquid latex masking fluid, like for the white reflections in waterfalls. This is also why you start with your lightest washes first, to establish the highest values in the piece, and paint around them.

[Anonymous No.3453344]

>>3452300
I've been suggesting everything that was assigned in the materials lists for the classes I took in college for watercolor, not equipment lists for what I've used over the years. I'm trying to help the OP by skipping the junk stuff the stores sell, and the bad advice the other person was giving. Why make it harder for the OP to learn, if he's fighting cheap materials?
Trust me, i can get WAY more complicated and expensive for equipment. I have brushes that cost more than my entire list.

[Anonymous No.3453351]

>>3453341
Hm, OK. So basically are you saying that if I want a... lighter greyish color for some rocks or whatever, right? I'd blend 3 primaries, then use a lot of water to dilute the pigment for a lighter wash...? So water in this case would be my lightener?

[Anonymous No.3453357]

>>3453351
The best grey for watercolor is Payne's Grey. It's a great color, and a little goes a long way. It's a different hue depending on how much you use - it's more blue the more you use, and light washes are more grey. It's perfect for rocks. It's a cool grey out of the tube, and looks great. It's one of the colors that everyone should have. And, it's a lot easier than mixing primaries, which i've always found a waste of paint, because of how much I have to use to get where I want.
Buy a tube. You won't be disapointed.
For neutral grey, just mix ultramarine and burnt sienna, or just two complementary colors, for warmer greys. I tend to use Payne's a light base later, and go warm/dark from there for rocks. Paynes is my go to for pale skin, too - Payne's, alizarin crimson, and yellow ochre to start with, adjust from there for local reflected light and move into other warms and cools for depth and pop.

[Anonymous No.3453382]

>>3453351
no fucking no, you wouldn't use 3 primaries anyway, you'd just use 2 compliments. but because it's watercolour you can't just pull the value up and down like you would in opaque paint. so if you want grey you use grey. that's why these jerkasses telling you to paint in primaries are leading you up the garden path.

this is why most watercolor paintings use a very simple colour composition, because it's required. you can do super complex dry brush bullshit but that's barely watercolors, it's showing off.

look at some watercolours by sargent or turner(lots of extended techniques though) and try work out how they use colour.

[Anonymous No.3453390]

>>3453382
>you can't just pull the value up and down
But you can. Pic related.
>this is why most watercolor paintings use a very simple colour composition, because it's required
But it's not.
>>3446599
See this post for example.

[Anonymous No.3453397]

>>3453390
of course values exist ya goof, you just can't mix a grey and then go, hm i would like this to be 10% lighter and then just pull it up there without changing it significantly. look more closely at your sargent example and find places where a color isn't a pigment. there's a few spots but not many, and he certainly isn't pulling fine value shifts out of a mix

[Anonymous No.3453401]

>>3453357
>>3453382
dear god so many different opinions on what constitutes as a suitable color palette. you've got as assholes who only use 3, some use 7, others use 12

and while it is up to preference and style, some of you are saying you shouldn't have this because it's a crutch, while others are saying just use it anyways

[Anonymous No.3453448]

>>3453332
For watercolor it's absolutely useless unless. White watercolor just barely does anything. Adding something like white gouache can turn your painting into a fucking mess. Paper is the white of watercolor. If you messed something up, you just use water to "erase" that area a little.

>>3453351
Yes.

>>3453382
2 compliments = 3 primaries lmao.

[Anonymous No.3453449]

>>3453401
Well that's because even /ic/ isn't just one person.

DESU, >>3446552
>>3446581
>>3446587
>>3446747
These are my posts. If you;ve never painted in watercolour & want to try, get a synthetic round brush size 10, a tube of a warm & cool dark such as the burnt sienna/ultramarine, and reasonable paper. 1x 22x30 inch sheet of Bockingford in the UK costs £2.10 for the lightest weight you want as a beginner, which is 300gsm (also known as 140lb).
By the end of cutting up & painting on that sheet, you will know if you like the medium, all for under £15.

[Anonymous No.3453466]

>>3453448
> Adding something like white gouache can turn your painting into a fucking mess. Paper is the white of watercolor.

Better give James Gourney a call, he's been doing it the wrong way all these years

[Anonymous No.3453509]

>>3453466
Van Gogh killed himself. Why haven't you?

[Anonymous No.3453539]

Watercolor is the one medium where you dont wanna skimp on materials, which sucks.

But if youre just starting out, get a small cotman-kit and an inexpensive watercolor sketchbook, just to start getting an understanding of it.

And when you want to do anything significant or professional, spend time on a piece, properly glaze and layer and lift, then you'll need to get (professional) W&N paints and good paper (I swear to the A3 blocks of Arches Hot Press watercolorpaper).

Again, it's on the more expensive side, but that had me be more careful and taught me to do better preliminary work- something digital never did. Of then tens of big watercolor-illustrations I did in school, I only had to discard one sheet.

Also, check out acryla gouache. It lets you work transparently and opaquely, so you can totally use it as watercolor. The big difference is that it doesnt get activated by water once try, so it cant be lifted or smudged. I work very systematically, so I like it this way, and have made it my new traditional medium of choice while also shifted my work towards being more opaque and flat.

Pic: An acryla gouache illo I did on Arches Hot Press watercolorpaper.

[Anonymous No.3453955]

>>3453539
Really nice work.

[Anonymous No.3454030]

>>3453955
Thanks :)

And this pic here is a small plein air piece done with my watercolor travel-set and a tube of white gouache to get real opaque with. Sort of a transitional period between watercolors and acryla gouache.

For a long time I dismissed white gouache/watercolor, but it work really well if you have in everything. It's when a piece is 98% smooth transparent watercolors that any white pigment will stick out like.

Oh, and the sheet was toned in a brown. You can see it showing through quite a bit in the grass. I picked this up from Gurney and it works so darn great. Having all the white killed from the get-go makes everything more undrrstandable for my iiidiot brain. I've started doing this in my client work illos- both traditional and digital. That illustration of the kids on a fishing trip has a bright yellow tone underneath that everything builds on top of.

[Anonymous No.3454269]

>>3446540
what about prussian blue

[Anonymous No.3454311]

>>3454269
pretty hot

[Anonymous No.3454326]

>>3453539
>>3454030

Pretty good

[Anonymous No.3454355]

>>3454269
what do you need prussian blue for?
If you understand how colors interact and mix properly you really should only need those listed.

[Anonymous No.3454910]

>>3454355
Seriously? Why do we need Prussian?

While I enjoy mixing paint, certain colors/pigments have specific personalities, and Prussian Blue has it's own unique characteristics. It's a neutralized version of Pthalo, like Cerulean is a easier shade of cobalt to use, and is more opaque when built up, and a lot easier to control in large washes, where Pthalo can build up too fast and too intense. There's a reason different pigments are on the market - Prussian is more forgiving for beginners than trying to mix with Pthalo - and Pthalo is so intense, you have to have a lot of practice to really control it. I'd rather a beginner use Prussian, and move into Pthalo later on - and have experience with both, to be able to have a wider range of pigments and intensities to choose from when doing finished work.

Yes, you can just get primaries, and mix, but some pigments can't be mixed, and on top of that, who wants to spend hours trying to make Prussian, when a tube is a couple of bucks?

There's being a purist for aesthetic reasons, but this is more pedantry than anything. I would never tell a beginner to not explore all the colors available to them on the market, if they can afford it. And, learn to mix color along the way, and to get into it. A lot won't, but that's their choice.

[Anonymous No.3454915]

>>3454311
no one else remembers prussian blue do they :(

[Anonymous No.3456431]

I’d say get 2 sets of primary, one warm and another cold, you’ll be surprised how much you can get from them

[Anonymous No.3456553]

>>3454915
They’re Christmas cake and they gave up White Nationalism. They’re irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.3456566]

>>3454915
Really? I thought it was a common pick in traditional painting.

[Anonymous No.3458620]

How would I get a darker shade without black? Let's say I want to turn my blue into a navy blue. How would I do that?

[Anonymous No.3458633]

>>3458620
add a bit of brown
it also depends on the blue, you cant turn a cerulean blue into a navy one

[Anonymous No.3458702]

>>3448220
those are tubes.

[Anonymous No.3458925]

Which brushes should I get for primarily sketchbook paintings? I was thinking a 2, 10, and a square-tip

[Anonymous No.3458929]

>>3448220
Holy shit, you can get this vibrant of color with watercolor?

[Anonymous No.3458958]

>>3458925
10 is fucking huge

[Anonymous No.3459040]

>>3458958
Not really, anon

[Anonymous No.3459124]

>>3459040
>twice as big as 6
>6 is more than enough for me to work on 50x60 cm format

[Anonymous No.3459162]

Who /chinese/ here? Havent painted in years but when I did all I used was rice paper, some tubes, and goat/weasel hair brushes. Chinese watercolor is one of the best styles to start out with imo, it teaches water control and movement control like no other.

[Anonymous No.3459168]

>>3459162
yeah the chinese calligraphy style brush is great, my favorite, because you can go from very fine to very bold in the same stroke

[Anonymous No.3459229]

>>3459124
50x60!? I could understand size 6 for general usage on a canvas that size, but do you at least have larger brush for larger areas?

[Anonymous No.3459264]

best painting advice i've ever received
>only use primaries
forces you to learn color theory, and will make your paintings look way better
>use a bigger brush
you get to work the whole piece and not hyperfocus on details before you block
>paint from life
the best lighting comes from outdoors, paint at different times of day and observe different colors of shadows

[Anonymous No.3459267]

>>3459264 cont.
studying color theory will improve your painting more than anything else.

tools don't really matter, its technique. if you want to get into water color, and are curious as to if you like it, pick up a cheap pan of water colors and some paper and start painting. your tools dont have to be expensive, but if you decide you like it and start to develop mastery,
there are lots of higher end options to look into

[Anonymous No.3459492]

>>3459264
>>only use primaries
What paints come the closest to the primaries?
There's so many variations in blues, reds and yellows that I'm not sure which to use.

[Anonymous No.3459510]

>>3459229
Just checked, I've got 14 synthetic, but 6 squirrel + large amounts of water works much better for big areas. So yeah, seems like I got bamboozled by my squirrel brushes' softness.

[Anonymous No.3459513]

>>3459264
>primaries will make your paintings look way better
I like how my painting teacher explained this to me:
Basic color + basic color = complex color.
Complex color + basic color = another complex color.
Complex color + complex color = muddy color

[Anonymous No.3459518]

>>3459513
What is a basic color and what is a complex color?

[Anonymous No.3459584]

>>3446745
Learn how the fuck to operate a water brush and you can watercolor on the go. Bitches get wet when they see you sketching on the go.

[Anonymous No.3459594]

>>3459518
A complex color is any color that is made through mixing two pigments.

[Anonymous No.3459604]

>>3459584
>Bitches get wet when they see you sketching on the go.
R-really?
It's not like I care for women but how do I get over my fear of drawing in public?

[Anonymous No.3459811]

>>3459584
I mean, it's not like pocket brushes exist or anything.

You could also get something like this. It's pretty compact, and you can't honestly can't beat a regular brush when it comes to water control

[Anonymous No.3459828]

>>3459811
Waterbrushes are convenient since there is no hassle with water, normal brushes are preferable but on-the-go a waterbrush seems like the best option.

[Anonymous No.3459832]

>>3459492
Get 1 set of warm primaries and 1 set of cool primaries

[Anonymous No.3460608]

>>3459513
yes! this is like a perfect way to explain it! your colors will look so much more lifelike if you stick to primaries.

>>3459492
i know others recommend to have two sets but for starting out one is fine. you don't want to sink a bunch of money into something when you are just starting, so 3 tubes should be enough. any red, blue, and yellow that are pure will do fine to start with.

here's a few more tips
>make bigger pieces
try it, it will make your strokes more free and confident! painting with your shoulder is a good habit to develop, as long term you can actually injure yourself by drawing or painting from the wrist
>learn art terms
brush up (haha) on elements and principles of art. (they are different) learn how you can apply them in your paintings.
>critique yourself and others using these terms
look at art you enjoy critically and see how others are creating good art
>learn composition
don't need to go super ham into this, but this goes hand in hand with knowing your principles and elements of art
>don't be afraid of a white page
paint it all one color if you're scared to start.
>experiment
don't be afraid of waste! watercolor is a great medium to experiment with because you can go over it with colored pencil, graphite, ink, goache, pastels if you don't like it. you can even wash out the whole piece, leave the paper aside to dry, and start again another day. its a very forgiving medium.
>your art is not precious
seriously the best advice i could give to anyone who is starting a new media. you are going to keep getting better, so don't be afraid of "ruining" your stuff. it isn't precious, and you CAN produce it again. you just need to learn the muscle memory, so keep at it. paint over your old pieces, make mistakes, critique yourself, and keep learning.

[Anonymous No.3460619]

>>3459832
and green, you can basically never mix an accurate green for foliage with blue and yellow. same with most secondary colors really, but green comes up a lot, cmy is ok for that though, but then you can't get accurate earth tones often enough, which is probably worse

[Anonymous No.3460674]

>>3453539
>>3454030
Good stuff.

[Anonymous No.3460710]

>>3447653
So don't use them for that?

[Anonymous No.3460711]

>>3447653
Why do people do this with the brush?

[Anonymous No.3460728]

>>3460711
to get rid of whatever is in the brush.
if you just cleaned your brush with turpentine, the last thing you want to do is to use it on the canvas, it will dissolve any paint there and ruin your painting. If its unintentional obviously

[Anonymous No.3460737]

>>3460728
i hate washing brushes, if i ever have enough money i'm only ever going to use a brush once, and i mean once as in one stroke, then throw it away.

[Anonymous No.3461115]

>>3460737
I saw an interview with the comic artist Chris Ware where you can see he has a bucket full of hundreds of pre sharpened pencils.

[Anonymous No.3461173]

>>3460619
im sorry but this is just not true... you can mix any color if you are skilled with mixing and know your color theory

[Anonymous No.3461185]

>>3460737
lol ok

[Anonymous No.3461514]

>>3461173
Not all colors, some pigments are impossible to match with primaries - ultramarine for example, and cobalt. You can come close, but the effort vs. just buying a tube for a couple of bucks?

I love to mix paint, when I have time, but a lot of the time i just want a certain color now, not two hours from now trying to match it. Insisting that everyone mix from primaries is more than a little elitist, and creating a level of complication that doesn't need to be there. You don't get a gold star for mixing your own colors. Besides, it's what you do with the color is what matters.
Sure, i could go buy some raw pigment, some gum of arabic, and make my own paint. But I don't have to. And I haven't created an artificial standard to hold people to, to make them do it, for....reasons?

[Anonymous No.3461517]

>>3460737
So, you'll never use a brush that's not properly broken in. Good to know.

[Anonymous No.3461675]

>>3447653
and just whack the devil out of it

[Anonymous No.3461810]

>>3448220
Zbukvic currently uses Schmincke tube watercolors.

Video of Zbukvic at work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81w9PBZOmZ8

There is also great book that can be downloaded in pdf from archive dot org

"Zbukvic Mastering Atmosphere and Mood in Watercolor"

Also Gurney has decent watercolor stuff albeit he doesn't do a lot of wet on wet technique (which is more fun and kind the point of watercolor). He rather uses watercolor as a sketching medium and gouache as a substitute for oil paints. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbGzz0ftV8s

>>3446745

Water brushes are great for quick sketches and thumbnails, I wouldn't use them for a wash larger than the palm of my hand. I often do quick value studies with watercolor pencils and wet them with the "meme brush". For beginners using watercolor block should be advisable as stretching paper can be quite ordeal - using pins and staples makes it tear it's corners easily if the paper was overly wet before stretching (I use staples and they are fine if you know how to manipulate that specific paper).

[Anonymous No.3461811]

What do you guys think about this kit?

https://www.amazon.com/Field-Artist-Masters-Watercolor-COMPLETE/dp/B07BD3DNFS/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1528355495&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=bijou+box&dpPl=1&dpID=417B0hTZQOL&ref=plSrch

I'm just starting out as a brand new beginner, so I plan on refilling these pans later with tube paint.

[Anonymous No.3461813]

>>3461810
By "wash larger than the palm of my hand", do you mean like a drawing? Or just a layer of paint that you're laying down?

I plan on working with small 7x10 in. sketchbooks mostly. Will a waterbrush suffice?

[Anonymous No.3461843]

>>3453332
You lighten the color by adding water, not white

>>3452463
Buying best paper available is not a bad investment. I have tried cheap canson papers and they are absolute garbage. You cannot use any watercolor techniques without lifting pigment and creating cauliflower edges etc. It's just horrible experience that makes you miserable.

[Anonymous No.3461858]

>>3453397
Dude doing larger washes with different grays mixed from two colors is fucking delicious with watercolor (for example cobalt blue touched with alizarin crimson or ultramarine with touch of burnt sienna).

What the fuck you need to get the closest pigment you can get? You are not a woman who has to buy every single color out there and use them with a itsy bitsy little koi brush to paint pretty birds fuck that - mix a generous wash of colors on your palette and do beautiful washes.

Mixing warm and cool grays from watercolors is the bread and butter. Holy shit this place sometimes gets to you man.

jeez read a book or watch a dvd about subject twat

[Anonymous No.3461859]

>>3461811
Not a bad set, but unless you actually plan on painting outside, you might wanna get a bigger metal box with more room for paints and mixing. You can still start of with the basic colors and add more as you go.

[Anonymous No.3461861]

>>3459604
Headphones. With your eyes on your work and your mind off what people say, you'll get comfortable.

[Anonymous No.3461869]

>>3461813
I wouldn't never recommend using a water brush on that "large" watercolor book. Get a few synthetic ones - a flat (1 inch or 3/4" aka. 2-3 cm wide) and two different sized round ones and you are good to go.

I literally mean I wouldn't never work on a piece larger than the palm of my hand with a water brush, but for those 2.5" x 1.5" (or 6cm x 4cm) size value&color thumbnails it's great and quick tool. I can fill a page with color compositions and thumbnails less than 10 minutes with few Caran d'ache watercolor pencils and a water brush.

And this is the biggest secret (James Gurney even has a post-it note of this on his desk to remind him) always work with biggest brush possible. Never try to do a wash or shape with smaller brush than necessary. Flat brush is so versatile - you can use it's corners and the flat side to create lines and also make washes and gradients. Round brush can be used to touch up wet areas with different colors to make color accents.

[Anonymous No.3461886]

>>3461811
It's fine.

[Anonymous No.3461890]

>>3461843
Not only the better brands, but the heavier paper. The first time I tried 130lb paper, it was like a revelation. My go-to paper is Arches 130lb, sheet - you can cut it down to 4 decent sizes, or smaller, and it's just great paper. It's good enough to be pro-grade, and I've never had a problem with it. The price is good, too, at around $6 a sheet. I use glued pads for experimenting and doing roughs and color studies, and they're fine for that, or beginners, but once you start doing finished work, you should upgrade to heavier paper, from a good paper company. Arches has been around forever, and is sold everywhere.

[Anonymous No.3461894]

>>3458958
For watercolor? Nah. Those are rounds, wash brushes can be a lot bigger. I have wash brushes and hakes that are several inches across - you need brushed like that to pull large washes around, or do gradations, like for a sky.
Beginners can stick to rounds, to get started, but the more you get into watercolor, you'll find uses for larger brushes, especially if you move up into larger paintings. I work around 18x24" these days, I need larger brushes. They're also really useful for getting large amounts of the page filled with water, getting ready for large washes.

[Anonymous No.3461896]

>>3459828
Waterbrushes are handy, yes, but I often just put clear water onto the page, and I'd have to dedicate a brush just for that, so I don't get contamination from previous colors. Kind of a pain, to be honest, when I have clean brushes just sitting here. Again - I'm not against them, I'm gonna pick up a couple at some point, but there are legit uses for traditional brushes, too. If you're doing a lot of line work, I can see them be really valuable for that.

[Anonymous No.3461900]

>>3447247
Is there any place I can get this set on eBay for a decent price, anyone? I searched it and all that came up were a hundred dollar tube set

[Anonymous No.3461910]

>>3461900
Everything on eBay is overpriced, because it's someone reselling it.

Ali Baba has it for $25.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Van-Gogh-Watercolor-12-Pan-Set_113611422.html

[Anonymous No.3462081]

>>3461514

im not implying that using primaries makes you better, im implying it improves your understanding of color theory, which makes your art better in turn.. of course once you learn the methods you can skip mixing if you choose, but to learn you should start by mixing.
and like its that much effort anyways, just a little trial and error. that comparison to making your own paint is super hyperbolic and irrelevant. it is a great habit to pick up, so don't deter beginners from it with false equivalencies like that

[Anonymous No.3462099]

>>3461173
but it is true. think of it like this

[Anonymous No.3462105]

>>3462099
to be clear.

hope the wheel isn't too simple, my photoshop won't open

[Anonymous No.3462320]

>>3461896
I prefer to use regular brushes, good quality ones produce much nicer strokes and make it easier to create large evenly coated areas.

But like I said before, when drawing outside and on the go, it's just a lot easier to go for a waterbrush to sneak in some painting during transit or when you are limited on time and can't carry around your whole painting set, all your brushes, water containers and an easel.

[Anonymous No.3462327]

>>3461173
Don't limit yourself to just the primaries.
I mean, it's good to limit your palette as a beginner but don't hold on to just red, blue, and yellow when there are a lot of pigments that have unique characteristics.
A pretty sweet palette of three colors, which are somewhat similar to primaries, is the Velazquez palette.
- Ultramarine blue
- burnt sienna
- Yellow ochre

It doesn't allow you to mix ALL colors but it allows you to mix some real great colors and create some really nice paintings once you get the hang of it.
As a beginner, it's also wise to just experiment with the paints, see what pigments mix well and how they behave.

[Anonymous No.3462460]

>>3461859
>>3461886
Have you guys used the paints before?

[Anonymous No.3462874]

How good is Sennelier for layering and glazing?

[Anonymous No.3462967]

Should I get White Nights or >>3446747

[Anonymous No.3462976]

>>3462327
you clearly have no knowledge on the topic of colors, please stop posting.

[Anonymous No.3462996]

>>3462327
that's interesting, i'll do a color page on that and have a look, ty

[Anonymous No.3463043]

i read through the thread a bit and still dont understand wtf is wrong with using black. how do you even get darker values without it?

[Anonymous No.3463204]

>>3462460
No, I generally use better brands, I have years of investment in brands like Winsor & Newton, Daniel Smith and Grumbacher. Van Goghs are usually in the discount/student sections. I haven't read any especially bad comments about them, except that they're artificial pigments, so don't expect the best experience from them?

[Anonymous No.3463205]

>>3462976
I don't see anything they posted that's wrong? And, it's not your place to tell people they can't post, knock that shit off.

[Anonymous No.3463213]

>>3463043
Black is rarely found in nature. Black flattens paintings out. It can be used, but a student should learn to use colors for darker values before covering the page in black, which is what usually happens. For watercolor, anyway - but black should be used sparingly in oil, too.

Having said that, an important exercise is learning to mix black. You don't need to buy a tube of black, when you can mix it with equal amounts of yellow, red, and blue. That way, you can add color into it, so you can make warm and cool values, instead of solid black. All shadows and darker values of hues have color in them, and can be mixed, and warm/cool values help create the illusion of depth as well. You create darker values by layering color, or mixing them beforehand.

https://www.johnlovett.com/black-watercolor goes into more detail, with examples.

Again, nothing in life is pure black, except complete darkness, like being in a closed room with no windows or light source. Even "black" plastic usually has some tint to it. Once you start really looking, black will almost always have a warmth or coolness to it. Every put on black jeans and a black t-shirt, and while they're both "black", they really don't match? That's because the jeans can have a lot of yellow in it, and the t-shirt a lot of blue.
There may be occasions to use pure black, but in a painting context, your darker hues should have color temperature, and fit into the overall color composition. Even a night sky isn't black, it's purples and blues, especially near the milky way - we just can't see the colors because of noise pollution from artificial lights. And, pure black is dead and flattening and not interesting to look at, when it's surrounded by color.

[Anonymous No.3463225]

>>3463213
This is all true. You can make plenty of paintings without the presence of black. I'm not negating what you said, but it's worth pointing out there are exceptions to the rule that can make an entire career.
This landscape is made by Zorn. He is known to paint with his famous limited 'Zorn Palette' consisting of Ivory Black, Cadmium Red Deep (or something like it), and Yellow Ochre. There's more colors when he needed it, but these three pigments act like an approximation of RBY. Who would have thought black can act like a blue?
It goes to show that it doesn't really matter about how simple or complex your colors, whether or not you're using black. If you can lock your color relationships in you're golden.

[Anonymous No.3463231]

random question

my gf gave me this kid's watercolor kit that she got from a garage sale or something

it's got a fuckload of colors in it, you think it's any good? i figured that watercolor is probably cheap as fuck anyway that it couldn't make a difference. i think i'll just try it out

[Anonymous No.3463235]

What's your guys' opinion on these for a travel set? Do I need a larger water reservoir than that teeny tiny clip-on cup?

They seem pretty practical, but the whole whiskey shit seems fedora as fuck. The price is ludicrous as well

[Anonymous No.3463237]

What's your guys' opinion on these for a travel set? Do I need a larger water reservoir than that teeny tiny clip-on cup?

They seem pretty practical, but the whole whiskey shit seems fedora as fuck. The price is ludicrous as well

[Anonymous No.3463240]

>>3463237
It's basically the same as pretty much any travel kit, except for the memey packaging.
When I do plein air, I usually bring two decent bottles of water - one for drinking, one for painting, and throw some red solo cups or whatever is laying around as well. I use a backpack, so it's not a big deal.
The only way to know what you really need is to go out and paint - you'll know pretty quickly what to bring next time.

[Anonymous No.3463243]

>>3463225
That's interesting, I'll look into it - there's alway an exception to the rule. My point is a student should learn how to use traditional colors first - then experiment like this.

Also note, that while he's using black, he's toning the black heavily, which fits in perfectly with what I'm saying.

[Anonymous No.3463275]

>>3463240
Is it necessary to have two water sources? I've heard of some people using one for cleaning the brush, and a second for a clean water source before they dip it in paint

[Anonymous No.3463283]

>>3463231
i use one all the time for sketching, they're fine as long as you work with the limitations..and you don't expect the resulting pictures to be archival.

[Anonymous No.3463287]

>>3463225
that's not the zorn palette though (just in case you thought it was), the zorn palette only works for interiors, it has really beautiful skin tones though, i have it all mixed out in my color book somewhere

[Anonymous No.3463302]

>>3463213
interdesting. so say for example, im painting a portrait with guache and i have a 12 color set, using yellow ochre and burnt sienna and maybe carmine to mix the colors, i should mix those three, plus say, ultramarine blue, to get to black. then add maybe burnt sienna to give a warm red undertone, then mix that in with the mixed paint i was already using for the skin tone to darken it?

good article btw thanks

[Anonymous No.3463309]

>>3446531
Yeah watercolor is probably the cheapest paint form other than tempera. Also you can get quality watercolor cheap. But quality paper is expensive, unlike oil and acrylic, which you can use on cardboard. Just buy a set of 8 nice colors, either pans or tubes, buy a flatedge and a pointed brush and some papers.
BTW if you're new to painting then don't use watercolor, because it's the hardest to use, since you cant add light colors on top of dark ones.

[Anonymous No.3463460]

>>3448515
Those look like shit get these instead
https://www.amazon.com/Kuretake-MC2036V-Gansai-Tambi-Color/dp/B00KERVO72

[Anonymous No.3464035]

How in the fuck would you even get colors like this anime girl's hair (salmon) and jacket (pastel light blue) without white paint.

It impossible to get these through mixing primaries.

[Anonymous No.3464053]

>>3464035
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdzejzwU-aw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0MQcRJcH7o&t=6m5s

You just dilute the color until you get there. Work in layers with your lightest layer first, let that dry, then add shadows and you can get a cel-shaded type of look.

[Anonymous No.3464058]

>>3464053
cant tell if youre actually retarded or not

[Anonymous No.3464177]

>>3463460
>>3448515
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TggB7IASBJs

>>3464035
There are specialty fluro colours that some botanical painters swear by in order to get those brightest, almost neon, hues, opera rose/pink being the most common example. The "pigment" name for them is different compared to names starting off with PV/PBr/etc. whenever you check a tube & wherever else the company discloses paint info. Be aware that paint made with such fluorescent ingredients tend to fade quite fast. desu if you don't feel any differently about PR83, then neon paints won't matter either. Could pose a problem if you do care about a paint's durability/archival properties, unless you use the original for reproduction & keep it in a sketchbook. Lightfast bs shouldn't really matter more than learning about the medium in the first place.
If you REALLY need pastel tones in WC & are fine with the added opacity, you'll have to mix a white to get whatever you're after. I like PW6:1 more than the others when I need something to that effect as its kinda neat on its own, but that's a preference thing. It'd be best to practice with water dilution/control before making a decision. If that isn't enough after all of that, you could try your luck with traditional gouache or acrylic gouache or whatever opaque medium suits your needs. Might defeat the purpose of WC a bit if you need a lot of opacity... it, again, is all down to preference.

There's always handprint to check out about this and additional info, but Jane Blundell's site serves as a nice visual complement. She doesn't keep it totally updated, so you might have to go through her blog for more about paint swatches.
https://www.janeblundellart.com/watercolour-mixing-charts.html
https://www.janeblundellart.com/watercolour-triads.html

Color of Art is also another site for basic pigment information specifically. It does not go in-depth into each one like the handprint dude does, however.
http://www.artiscreation.com/Color%20of%20Art.html

[Anonymous No.3464191]

>>3464035
>How in the fuck would you even get colors like this anime girl's hair (salmon) and jacket (pastel light blue) without white paint.
It's easier then you think, you first paint her hair with a very diluted red for first layer light value.
Let it dry for about 10mins or so (or use a blow dryer) and move to the next layer with another higher value and so on.

As far as matching pastels you may need to play around with different reds/browns and possibly strive towards a slightly warmer red vs cooler red that slants towards violet
>>3464058
can't tell if you're a brainlet or not


Also rate my painting

[Anonymous No.3464398]

>>3464191
I rate it ew/10

[Anonymous No.3464482]

>>3463275
It's what I do. It's really up to you. I dislike using water I've used for cleaning to lay down clear water ahead of time for washes. Depending on how much paint I'm switching to, I just empty the cleaning water as often as I can, to keep things cleaner. It's really something you decide for yourself, by working.

[Anonymous No.3464483]

>>3463302
Yep, you have the basic idea. Give it a try. It's really the best way to understand it. You can also mix colors by glazing washes. If you're using good paper, you can let a wash dry, and layer new washes on top to create the same colors as mixing it on the palette.
A hairdryer for drying washes is a must have if you're gonna get into watercolor, by the way.

[Anonymous No.3464484]

>>3464035
I take it you haven't even tried?

That color isn't even close to being impossible. And, you use the white of the paper, to control your lighter values. Watercolor isn't opaque, it's transparent, and you use the white of the paper, and thinner washes, to get lighter hues like that.

[Anonymous No.3464485]

>>3464058
Nothing he said is innaccurate. Care to share why he's wrong, so you can educate the entire rest of the world for how you think watercolors are done?

[Anonymous No.3464491]

>>3464191
This. Watercolor is working backwards, compared to oils, or acrylics, and is why it's easy to try, difficult to truly master. You start with your lightest hues and values and build color, with the white of the paper being the brightest value in the painting. Some artists lay down careful washes to preserve the white, or they'll tape off sections where they're doing heavy washes, or they'll use liquid latex masking fluid for irregular shapes that would be hard to cut out of tape.
You have to plan a watercolor out completely before you put brush to paper. Oils, you can edit, overpaint, scrape the paint off with a knife, or add white to adjust values. In that respect, it's way easier than watercolor. With a watercolor, you have to determine your highlights, midtones, and darkest values before you start painting. You can adjust the midtones and shadows along the way, but having a goal in mind helps a lot. If you do it quickly, you can sometimes lift paint off the paper with a sponge, paper towel, or brush loaded with water, but it's finicky, and some pigments, like reds, stain the cotton right away. I've heard of people using bleach after the paint is dried, to life pigment out, but that idea kind of freaks me out.

Oils make you look at your subject while you paint, watercolor makes you look at it before you start.

[Anonymous No.3464514]

>>3464491
this is kind of an overstatement though you see it everywhere, you can totally make and correct mistakes in watercolor as long as you have the right paper, the water doesn't soak in immediately so you can wipe it off. you can also get pure whites in other ways (paint/scalpel) and transparent paint is more intuitive than body paint for a lot of people.

oil painting is ostensibly easier but that doesn't make watercolors super punishing. it's a bad fear to have as watercolor paintings benefit so much from a free n' easy approach to markmaking.

[Anonymous No.3464599]

>>3464398
Then go fuck yourself.

[Anonymous No.3464863]

How do I do this?

[Anonymous No.3465210]

https://youtu.be/SnynI7xUKRo?t=55
https://youtu.be/mFUwh31gTXo?t=152
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3-Xnb0QHHg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBo68CzS5eM

[Anonymous No.3465217]

>>3465210
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdWOcdg-pls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFenH6TdSuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXd3tAQrOyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODUFFJzhJns

[Anonymous No.3466104]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnaC1Vfk_RY

Anyone can paint if they really want to!

[Anonymous No.3466153]

>>3449179
>and you don't need and shouldn't use black

This is a meme.

It's hard to get dark values with watercolors, you need good paper and very good pigments, black for mixing is fine.

>Large sheets are a waste for beginners

You can cut paper, you know.

>Most watercolor paper is cotton

This is not true. You named Canson for example. Canson has 5 types of watercolor paper. Only 2 are 100% cotton, Héritage and Moulin du Roy.

[Anonymous No.3466765]

>>3466153
Using black or neutral tint is a terrible piece of advise. The only exception to that would be rare instances where you are doing for i.e a space painting where value is absolutely max.

Its terrible advice becuase it encourages bad painting habits and fails to utilize watercolors strength.

[Anonymous No.3466878]

>>3466765
Can I use black in gouache ? I find it hard to make darker value with that medium

[Anonymous No.3466910]

>>3461115
Chris Ware is crazy

[Anonymous No.3466965]

>>3466765

>rare instances
in the OP watercolor done by Paul Felix the shadows of the plants near the camera are done with a warm black like Ivory Black.

And fuck, every other watercolor posted itt has very dark values has well.

Again, it'hard to get dark values with watercolors, you need good paper and a lot of good pigment.

[Anonymous No.3468584]

>>3466965
While I do agree with >>3466765 a bit, it is a bit cathartic to deviate every now and again from the usual traditions. Black iron oxide aka Mars Black (PBk11) is a really neat pigment that granulates like crazy in watercolour. I treat it more like an effects paint whenever its used than something purely for mixing, though. Whether or not one wants to keep a painting harmonious or use a fuckton of colours, it doesn't hurt to learn more about the paints & what they're capable of in this medium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2KJ_OkO0_4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn9wvk8B36I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X76kyipIEwY
https://www.johnlovett.com/black-watercolor
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6126935&postcount=4

On the flip side, there are the specialty palettes like Zorn that still do well enough in watercolour. Some artists try to be sneaky with substituting the black & white in some vain attempt to stay as traditional as possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--EyUBPX82Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usC3UFpjRP0
https://youtu.be/5pBQNXPXOeo?t=36

[Anonymous No.3468686]

What is some cheap cotton watercolor paper