Git Gud General - /ggg/ - [Ideas]

[Anonymous No.3311664]

Alright /ic/, every time I come to this board I see a lot of information thrown around with little to no context. This is typical of imageboard's and is preferred in my opinion. However, I think it's time we started taking things a little more seriously, as good as the unfiltered stream of information is, it has its drawbacks:

>Analysis Paralysis
Having access to so much information often leads to inaction, if you are a beginner, it is very difficult to filter out which books/videos are good, and which are a waste of time.

>Lack of structure
Similar to the above, even if you manage to find a couple of beneficial resources, figuring out how and when to approach a different subject can be challenging.

>Information scope
Another minute problem is that information on /ic/ tends to be either too general or too specific, if someone is having a problem with presenting the human figure in perspective properly, he will either get >fundied, or people will help him with a single issue they notice, all the while leaving the greater problem mostly unsolved (this is normal and to be expected as people are proficient in different things, and offer as much help as they can).

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I think /ic/ can do better, as there are very few places online where people can discuss drawing/art as we can here, where anonymity offers a lot of advantages, other places suffer from either being to broad and open, DA for instance, which has long since lost its use, and places like ArtStation which tend to be focused more on advanced artists. I think that what's missing is the middle ground, and I think /ic/ can be that place, at least for the few of us that might be serious.

>What's the purpose of this thread

I am imagining this thread as a general where we would first flesh out ideas for a structured method of improving our skills, I am aware that no method is THE method, but I think we can think of a couple general methods of learning.

[Anonymous No.3311669]

This thread is NOT a replacement for other general threads such as artbook/sketchbook/anatomy/beg/, I imagine this as a SUPPLEMENT to them, a central hub that would advise people how to USE those threads efficiently.

>Artbook Threads
Artbook threads are one of the most useful threads here, where a LOT of information is stored, however, with all that information, I know I find it difficult to figure out what to use and what to implement. We can set some groundwork ITT for some essential books/courses that are valuable so that people can at least know what to look for. This will help with the first issue I pointed out.

>Grinding
People get told to >grind fundies all the time, with little to no explanation as to what this means, I know it's not a hard concept to get, and that people shouldn't be spoonfed, but I figured people can share their schedule/routine and people could see how others are structuring their work so those that are serious could benefit.

>This thread/idea is NOT for everyone
I'm writing this as I go along, so I apologize if I go from topic to topic, but I want to stress that this isn't for everyone, and it isn't for /ic/ as some general group, I want to know if there are people here that are serious and struggle with similar things so that we can make some kind of group where we could help each other improve, instead of having people tear each other down all the time.

[Anonymous No.3311673]

>>3311664
Just draw, man

[Anonymous No.3311675]

>>3311664
and this is exactly why i hate digital.
it's all fake.
fake brush textures, fake "paint texture" look fake paper structures
yet, the result is all pixels, flat, two-dimensional, a copy of a copy, dead, only manifests as a reproduction print.

so-called "digital painting" (a paradox in itself) is a nostalgic, pathetic act. leaving these recurring patterns visible to assume artistic virtuosity is THE cancer.

[Anonymous No.3311676]

I suggest we divide practice in a few categories, and that we first and foremost focus on explaining >fundies, break them down into categories and suggest books/routines that work for people, for instance:

>Anatomy
1. List of a few Books (3 at most, Portraiture/Figure/Misc)
2. Ways to best approach learning and practicing anatomy.

>Perspective
1. Books again (/beg/ perspective and an advanced one)
2. Ways to best approach learning and applying perspective.

>Composition
>etc
>etc

You get the idea, furthermore, we can have threads on these categories where we can post questions and get honest critique, we already have an anatomy general which is a great start. Once we manage a general course/curriculum on these issues, we can start on more advanced things like style/specialization.

Feel free to use this thread to suggest and note things that you have issues with, I am missing a lot of things here and a lot of this is incoherent, but I'm curious what /ic/ thinks of this.

Let's make it /ic/

[Anonymous No.3311689]

>>3311664
>Analysis Paralysis
>Lack of structure
Solution: Just go with the flow and study where your current interests lie. If the topic seems too advanced, go a step back and see what is needed in order to continue your studies.

>Information scope
Solution: Consider the inner logic of a post. If something seems unclear ask. Decide for yourself what advice or critique you want to follow.

>Grinding
The term itself is a meme, don't think about it. Put time and effort into your craft, but don't think of it as a 'grind'.

General approach: Take your time to make your own decisions. If they turn out right, good. If you fail, even better.

Learning art is NOT a straight path!
It's neither some mythical alchemy, but it's not the science /ic/ makes it out to be. It's a craft. And learning a craft takes
time and nurture. And mastering it even more so.

You can't expect to get good fast, and you shouldn't. Your goal shouldn't be a certain standard. Your goal should be improving past the standard you imaginr yourself in a year. Don't focus on reaching the finish line. Focus on running. It's a never ending marathon. You don't need to be fast, you need to be determined.

That said, I think a more organized Beginner's Guide would be a great idea and huge help for those starting out.

[Anonymous No.3311707]

>>3311675
yeah, but you need to have the same knowledge in art to make a painting like that, knowledge cant be fake.

[Anonymous No.3311708]

>>3311664
Nah, too good of an idea, /ic/ with crabs and /beg/s will just find a way to burn it down to fiery flames, intentionally or not. Better to find another community to host this kind of discussion on.

[Anonymous No.3311709]

>>3311689
>Solution: Just go with the flow and study where your current interests lie. If the topic seems too advanced, go a step back and see what is needed in order to continue your studies.

I am able to manage it somewhat, but my interest shift from time to time and it gets difficult to notice which area happens to be my weak spot, there is only so much one can learn on his own, which is partly why I started this thread, and going with the flow means a lot of things to different people and I personally find that "going with the flow" has me wasting time where I go back to my comfort zone and don't improve, the point of this thread is to improve efficiency.

>Solution: Consider the inner logic of a post. If something seems unclear ask. Decide for yourself what advice or critique you want to follow.

This is solid advice, but there are a million different things to consider in a piece and working out the internal logic of all kinds of people's thought process can be very tiring, this is compounded by the fact that /ic/ is a painfully slow board and replies often don't come.

>You can't expect to get good fast, and you shouldn't. Your goal shouldn't be a certain standard. Your goal should be improving past the standard you imaginr yourself in a year. Don't focus on reaching the finish line. Focus on running. It's a never ending marathon. You don't need to be fast, you need to be determined.

I absolutely agree with you, however, certain directions in lieu of (don't go there, its a waste of time) would be very beneficial, there is no set path as you said but some general timesinks that can be avoided should be made clearer, assuming people have found them.

Thanks for the thought-out reply anyways.

[Anonymous No.3311711]

>>3311675

That's a nice word salad you got there.

[Anonymous No.3311714]

>>3311675
>and this is exactly why i hate digital.
>it's all fake.
what in this manufactured farce of a world do you still perceive as genuine and how naive must I be to agree with your answer

[Anonymous No.3311735]

>>3311675
>fake brush textures, fake "paint texture" look fake paper structures

I'm kind of confused. So you hate digital because it is not made with "real world materials"? Do you also hate digital photography and only consider real photography if it's celluloid based?

You really need to chill out. The computer is just another medium for artists to play with. In the end it's up to an artist which he will use. It boils down to the same fundamentals of value, edge control and color anyway.

[Anonymous No.3311739]

stop responding to bait, jesus christ. is this your first day on 4chan?

[Anonymous No.3311779]

>>3311675
the computer is just a tool, it's not like it's doing anything on it's own. You're still holding the pen in your own hand and making use of your own knowledge.

[Anonymous No.3311795]

>>3311676
Honestly, we've had so many of these type of threads that always focus on preemptive, aimless studying and grinding. Why don't we focus on learning while creating for once?

I remember when I started out the Crimson Daggers monthly challenges were just fading out and the community was slowly dying, so I never got to participate in those, but the idea behind them always struck me as the absolute best and fastest way to improve. Set yourself a goal, pick a topic, do an illustration the absolute best you can regardless of your skill level and use references for anything you don't know how to draw and paint and then everyone posts the final results and critique each other's work constructively.

[Anonymous No.3311804]

i you study 4 hours a day you can get gud in 1 year

[Anonymous No.3311805]

>>3311804
wrong, thousands of people have done that and aren't good. That's like saying if you practice basketball 4 hours a day in 1 year you can play in the NBA.

[Anonymous No.3311807]

>>3311795
>topic based illustration challenges.

This is a good idea. Come up with a topic that isn't shitty, set a deadline and have a thread for it.

The only issue is that nobody is gonna actually try and participate b/c they don't want to get btfo.
Though tbf I think there are enough lurkers who actually want to get better, it would be sustainable thing. Maybe have a few regulars.
Best in thread would win the challenge, maybe? High quality work done on time?

At worst it would just be a regular study thread, but with deadlines.
I got a competitive itch I think there's bound to be others who have the same thing.

[Anonymous No.3311834]

>>3311795
OP here, this is why this thread is for, finding out methods that work for people that would help them improve, just throwing fundies at people won't make them improve. I had an idea for making daily/weekly challenges so that people would actually WANT to use and improve their skills.

For instance, I realized that just drawing anatomy doesn't really make me any better, just studying a reference isn't helping me, but when I draw from imagination for a piece I want to do, it makes me think of how to use and display the anatomy, and when I get stuck, I pull out a reference and actually do a "study", this is how I learn the best, and the information actually sticks.

>>3311807
On /ic/ I see a lot of crabs, I don't mean people who aren't skilled, I mean people who really don't mean to improve and are stagnating, this is who I want to avoid, I want to find ambitious people on /ic/ and form some sort of loose group where we would be able to help each other, who knows, maybe we would quickly leave /ic/ behind.

[Anonymous No.3311849]

>>3311714
I like you

[Anonymous No.3311869]

>>3311834
amen

[Anonymous No.3311871]

>>3311675
The only difference, tbqh, from painting and digital painting, is the minute bits of knowledge about how to manipulate the medium to get the result you want that can only be learned thru trial and error. Other than that, the artist's ability to rely on his own inner vision remains the most important.

There's nothing fake about it, anon. Everyone struggles with making art that matters, but that's an inner struggle. Not for others to call other peoples works fake.

Beautiful pic btw.

[Anonymous No.3311876]

>>3311675
Get with the times gramps

[Anonymous No.3311879]

>Having access to so much information often leads to inaction, if you are a beginner, it is very difficult to filter out which books/videos are good, and which are a waste of time.


>my solution is making yet another thread with even more information in it

[Anonymous No.3311892]

>>3311834
>I mean people who really don't mean to improve and are stagnating, this is who I want to avoid

The only way you avoid this is by being alone or surrounding yourself with people who are actively working to do their best work.
They'll make themselves known if they participate in any sort of rigorous challenge like >>3311807

> I don't mean people who aren't skilled
> maybe we would quickly leave /ic/ behind.

This seems a bit misguided. You naturally tend to attract to yourself people with a similar style who are at your current skilllevel.
A good study group is essentially a circle jerk where everyone is a fan everyone and tries their damndest not to get left behind.
Part of the appeal of study groups is the "sweat-of-the-brow"" recognition. People who work harder generally get better results, and more attention/etc.
It's part of the reason why high level gamers tend to flock to eachother. You would have already left /ic/ behind and found your path if you had any sort of ambition.

Ambition is a lonely road of tiny gains and steady self improvement. Nobody who naturally expects more from themself needs critique.
They've already won, it's only a matter of not giving up and always finding ways to improve etc..

[Anonymous No.3311905]

>>3311714
I don't think that digital art is fake per se. You can achieve amazing things in digital illustration that you could never achieve in any other medium. But that's exactly the point: hardly anyone even uses it to that point. Instead, you get people like OPs pic, using these - for lack of better wording - computer kitsch style elements that mean to evoke nostaglic feelings towards "the mastery of painting" – brush strokes, canvas textures, paper textures …
if you are using something this innovative, than fucking embrace what you can do with it and not jump in on the teachings like "So with this brush tool, we can fake oil! And with this one, you can pretend to draw on paper!"

Does nobody in that field ever think of consistency?
>>3311735
>Do you also hate digital photography and only consider real photography if it's celluloid based?
no. the right comparison here would be instagram color filters with fake polaroid frames. that is digital kitsch as well.

[Anonymous No.3311908]

>>3311779
>the computer is just a tool, it's not like it's doing anything on it's own. You're still holding the pen
… yup, which doesn't refute any of the die-hard nostalgia and kitsch that lies in fake oil paint brushes like OP pic. the stamp-like identical marks it leaves are as dead and stale as it gets.

[Anonymous No.3311913]

>>3311905
You say it's all about nostalgia like it's a bad thing.
I read your post as more or less a call to action, but you don't even point in a vague direction. Basically, you're just complaining about people making paintings that weren't made with knives and oils.
Well, keep at it, I guess. Dogs will bark. Artists will continue to make art. Hope you enjoyed this (You).

[Anonymous No.3311921]

>>3311908

Would you be fine with it if the painting software used a new kind of brush engine that was not stamp-based and created marks that were as varied as physical painting does?

[Anonymous No.3311924]

>>3311913
I have a working method / concept for digital illustration that puts a twist to this whole idea, but I won't disclose it here.

I just find it worthwhile to point out that most people bring their expectations in "painted images" right to digital illustration, when really it's an entirely different field.
There is no fluid, no pigment, no color other than the static pixels of the screen. Each computer screen you work with has a different color fidelity and backlight etc, thus the work will look different on each individual brand, same as the screen format. If you decide to print digital artwork, you will be left with the fact that it is always a copy from the etherial original, the .psd file or whatever format you've chosen. If you have no electricity, turn off the computer or the file becomes corrupt, it doesn't exist. If you make a print of it, it is always a copy.

People obsessed with digital paint simulation, brush simulation, paper structures and all that make-believe are basically no different than the porcelain doll collectors, the dreamcatcher selling esoteric folks or instagram teenagers who apply all the common photo filters and tell each other how good they are at "photography".

[Anonymous No.3311932]

>>3311921
the stuff that is being used and HOW it is being used like in OP pic is not crazy enough yet. nobody is pushing the boundaries, but rather trying to make it look as traditional as possible. superficially, the image motifs have changed, yes, but the nostalgia for "paint like the old masters" is this present. It's a fantastic media with so many incredible possibilities, but hardly anyone pushes it to the limit.

It is very possible to generate a unique aesthetic, if you think of the vaporwave stuff. where is that in digital illustration? All you ever see is dragons, medievil shit, retro futuristic crap or chicks with huge tits and thin armor.

[Anonymous No.3311937]

>>3311879
Only the point of the thread was to take a handful of books and create a more or less structured approach to improvement, and to cut out the bloat, but you didn't even really mean to read what I wrote before you commented anyways.

>>3311892
That's pretty much the goal, I agree with you, but ambition isn't the only factor, and even then, you have to start somewhere. But to argue that people who are ambitious don't NEED critique is a bit extreme I think, sure people like this have an increased aptitude for working problems out by themselves, but a different perspective is always helpful. People are different and making out successful artist as only being introverted savants is a bit of a cliché, some people thrive alone, and some thrive in competitive settings, finding ambitious people on /ic/ is a bit of a stretch but I know some have to be here, I only hope we can find a way to >git gud together.

[Anonymous No.3311978]

>>3311664
>no method is THE method
>still wants a method
r u ok bro?

[Anonymous No.3312008]

>>3311664
Something Im trying to get down is the blocking stage when studying photo ref or painting. I came to the conclusion that once you block out the main subject you continue to block out the negative space. Then move to blocking out minute features like the face and fingers. Im realizing accuracy is key, so try to measure and figure out the general shape. Then attempt to get every angle down to the best of your ability. If it looks bad dont be afraid to erase, or redo it on another layer, because it'll help you get an idea on what youre doing wrong. Lastly, spending 2-5 mins just starring at the piece in comparison to your piece will help you find flaws in your piece.

This might be a no brainer, but it took me almost 5 years to realize this. rip

[Anonymous No.3312021]

>>3312008
Also somewhat new to direct sight-size copying. I have been trying different methods for a few weeks. One thing I've seen some chinese oil painters do is smear a very rough approximate shape and move on to establish some initial planes plus a light and dark area on those planes.

Most of my frustration comes from the lack of options when studying in anything other than paint. And then the expense of paint when I do.

[Anonymous No.3312032]

this is some new age bullshit right here I tell ya what

[Chicocalte !4Ltr1vH/Dk No.3312033]

What the actual living Christ is this thread about?

[Anonymous No.3312039]

>>3312033
see
>>3311664

[Chicocalte !4Ltr1vH/Dk No.3312044]

>>3312039
Nope, still not understanding. You could all just try drawing, though? That's an idea, no?

[Anonymous No.3312045]

>>3312044
DUH, why didn't we think of that!!?

[Anonymous No.3312046]

>>3312033
>>3312044
Chicocalte is a genius

[Anonymous No.3312048]

>>3312044
/ic/ feels like never ending shoptalk environment

Make sure you have your own post quota or you'll just constantly babble about worthless shite

[Anonymous No.3312430]

>>3311664
Also, comfort zone. I just realized Ive been sitting in my comfort zone by not doing finished pieces. I'd suggest looking back at older pieces from a few weeks ago, or a month ago, and avoid the pattern.


>>3312021
>smear a very rough approximate shape
I'd have to give this a try, thank you!!

[Anonymous No.3312444]

>>3311879
This post made me giggle and tickle my pet guinea pig

[Anonymous No.3312445]

>>3312430
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2R8RokjKzc
the joys of working with traditional mediums.

[Anonymous No.3314415]

>>3311664
Damn I checked this artist's artstation and this is all I found.

[Anonymous No.3314423]

>>3314415
Lmao you wish you were this good crab.

[Anonymous No.3314437]

>>3314423
I'm just disappointed is all.

[Anonymous No.3314454]

>>3314423
This is literally like that pencil girl from a week ago but this one is creative with alpha masks.

[Anonymous No.3314461]

>>3314454
>it's hacking i can tell guys it's impossible to create a 1:1 copy

[Anonymous No.3314464]

>>3314454
wat pencil girl

[Anonymous No.3314467]

>>3314464
https://yuki.la/ic/3289913

[Anonymous No.3314966]

>>3312445
wow, how impressive! another mathematical, stale, technical chinese artist with 0 concept or soul to it. wouldn't you know?

and he's a teacher, too.

[Anonymous No.3314977]

>>3311675
your argument and this whole thread is invalid dumbass

[Anonymous No.3314981]

>>3314977
you counter-argument is invalid, because I simply say so (like you) without telling you why.

[Anonymous No.3314992]

i'd say the comfort zone is the heart of darkness. if you keep drawing with no innovation in any of your pieces (composition, coloring, perspective, etc.) you're gonna stagnate hard.
i like what another anon said some time ago - less emphasis on grinding 2 pages every day on the latissimus dorsi and more on creating FINISHED pieces where you try to incorporate that one thing into your art. i think you'll learn more when you're trying to create the best possible finished work rather then shitting out a bunch of repeating sketches on a paper.
studies obviously have their place, but i think some will benefit more if they just draw with new horizons in mind. ie - i'm gonna draw something new every day or week, see what i did wrong, learn from my mistakes, and have a go at it again.

[Anonymous No.3315741]

>>3314992
I agree with this overall but I think studies can be equally useful so long as you're studying something you're uncomfortable with.

My rule of thumb is that if something feels consistently easy, I'm not learning from it. Likewise, if a drawing looks like shit, that means I'm probably learning something.

[Anonymous No.3315747]

>>3314454
Do you really think he's just using filters/overpaints? He's definitely reference heavy, but his approach is definitely still stroke by stroke.

[Anonymous No.3316975]

>>3311675
this anon is right

[Anonymous No.3317006]

>>3311675
youre a massive faggot, you know that right?

[Anonymous No.3317073]

>>3311804
maybe 2yr

[Anonymous No.3317085]

>>3314454
They differ in that the girl was a fraud.

[Anonymous No.3317143]

>>3317006
butthurt
so much butthurt
so many (You)s

>>3316975
high five

[Anonymous No.3318251]

>>3314992
man, what are you suppose to fucking do when the entire world decides that your very specific style, your specific taste, is something everyone is going crazy for?

I never thought my art had any kind of mass appeal. It's all very very... rough, sort of amateurish but I'm seeing straight up copies appearing in films, video games, and even music somehow.

I mean, look at this shit[pic related]. This is taken STRAIGHT FROM MY PORTFOLIO ALMOST. That entire movie is literally based on my personality, my friends, my affairs, my character traits, my art, everything. Even the characters LOOK LIKE I DO. The side characters look like girls from my life. Joi is ripped straight from my art.

So... comfort zone is not the same thing as... style and genre, It's not the same thing as a period in art. A movement.

What the fuck even is life anymore.

[Anonymous No.3318435]

>>3318251
ah yes

[Anonymous No.3318454]

>>3318251
Jace, you have paranoid schizophrenia. You need to go to therapy.

[Anonymous No.3318458]

>>3314966
dude, we're talking about technical details. no one cares about some rando chinese portrait artist.

[Anonymous No.3318462]

>>3318251
nigga you weren't even born when blade runner first came out

[Anonymous No.3318465]

I'm concerned I'm not focusing on the right things. Could anyone chime in and tell me if my current focus isn't helpful?

I'm /beg/ and learning figure drawing. I've a good enough grasp of basic perspective and structure after studying basic shapes and boxes for like 2 months so I figured the next step was learning how to draw people.
I studied gesture for a moment and kept going through the Proko figure drawing lessons along with Hampton's for back up (I find his method more technical and less /beg/ friendly)

But then Proko goes full "Draw the whole fucking owl" in between landmarks of the body and fullblown mannequization. It's daunting. I turned to his specific anatomy courses for the 3 main masses of the body - hips, torso and head- and I'm getting decent at drawing them but I can't seem to piece them together.

It's like I know how to draw the puzzle pieces but not how to piece them together? Like how to draw the spine, torso, head and hips altogether without it looking weird and making them click.
I know I'm rambling but it's due to how confused I am at what I should be doing at this point. I hope someone can figure out what I'm doing wrong and help a brother out by pointing out.

[Anonymous No.3318579]

>>3318462
judging by the post you keep spamming in every thread, you did't either.