/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.3173645]

What's the worst advice you ever had?

[Anonymous No.3173650]

>>3173645
>>>/ic/

[Anonymous No.3173654]

>>3173650
nice try but name only one

[Anonymous No.3173729]

>>3173645
Is that Billy Joel or Christopher Walken?

[Anonymous No.3173737]

>>3173729
My best bets are on this guy

[Anonymous No.3173743]

>>3173645
Alcohol doesn't damage your brain

[zoot allures !!+aX8gh7xHfM No.3173765]

this is what advice on autopilot looks like:


I assume you aren't wanting to be a hobbyist for the rest of your life if you are asking for critique. That said..
why the fuck are you copying existing manga pages and asking for critique.

Read the beginner books..

Learn how to
1. Construct forms
2. Perspective
3. Render forms
4. Composition
5. Color
6. Clothing/drapery

Soon, you will be able to draw your own comics without resorting to sad copies.

As for which books, I can give you my own list if you are interested. Otherwise, good luck

without actually taking anything i drew into consideration i got this hollow advice from an "artist" who learned a few scholarly terms and now thinks he's the authority on what it means to be an artist. fucking moron.

[Anonymous No.3173849]

>>3173765
Surprisingly accurate.

[Anonymous No.3173854]

>>3173645
honestly? when i tried lasso to paint and posted result, anons told me "nooo, use brush and stroke economy, no lasso for sharp edges!!!"
now i see all the pros use lasso and it fucking irks me that i avoided it for many years thanks to some asshole on /ic/

[Anonymous No.3173899]

>>3173854

Honestly it might still be good advice for a beginner. If you use the lasso tool as a crutch to make up for a lack of skill then it could be an issue (ie. lack of control when creating strokes), otherwise it's just another useful tool.

[Anonymous No.3173922]

>>3173899
except im not a beginner, pretty much EVERYONE uses lasso to at least separate figure from the background, but i didn't

[Anonymous No.3173924]

>>3173922
*thinking that it's some evil tool and everyone paints everything on one layer.
anyways, horrible advice fucked up my progress for years.

[Anonymous No.3173926]

>>3173765
ngmi

[Anonymous No.3174064]

>>3173645
"Just believe in yourself"

[Anonymous No.3174111]

"Just draw"

[Anonymous No.3174116]

>>3173645
"read the sticky"

>>3174111
best possible advice

[zoot allures !!+aX8gh7xHfM No.3174702]

>>3173922

well that just means you did it the hard way for years, you got a leg up on the competition.


>>3174116
>read the sticky

another top contender for most shit advice given out regularly on /ic/.

[Anonymous No.3174723]

>>3173645
"bee yourself"

[Anonymous No.3174739]

Don't kill yourself

[Anonymous No.3174779]

>>3173765
If you actually did copy existing manga pages and asked for critique then why do you expect a better reply than this? Also how could he forgot to add anatomy.

[zoot allures !!+aX8gh7xHfM No.3174786]

>>3174779
i did it in ball point pen. that's right folks, in one try, and i was able to fit an entire page in my sketchbook. i clearly understand constructing forms, perspective, i know how to render forms (is this guy serious with this shit?) and composition. it wasn't in color and clothing/drapery wasn't up to me. i clearly know how to draw.

[Anonymous No.3175931]

>>3173743
Explain.
Were you alcoholic and damaged your brain beyond repair?

[Anonymous No.3175933]

>>3173854
no rools only tools

[Anonymous No.3175941]

>>3173765
and how is this wrong exactly?

[Anonymous No.3175946]

meet guy at figure drawing class, I tell him I am regimenting myself to git gud- 80 hours a week

he says no dont do. just do it when ever you feel like it.


its a shame because he was actually good. but I disregarded his advice.

[zoot allures !!+aX8gh7xHfM No.3175947]

>>3175941
in so many words he tells me "learn to draw". i already know how to draw.

>i did it in ball point pen. that's right folks, in one try, and i was able to fit an entire page in my sketchbook. i clearly understand constructing forms, perspective, i know how to render forms (is this guy serious with this shit?) and composition. it wasn't in color and clothing/drapery wasn't up to me. i clearly know how to draw.

yes i did draw a page from Dragon Ball but i also drew from life on multiple occasions in the same thread. so while i appreciate being told to learn how to construct forms, perspective, render forms, composition, color and clothing/drapery, i think ill be fine without his advice.

[Anonymous No.3176019]

>>3173645
>Just be yourself
art related it's probably
>just draw what you see

[Anonymous No.3176040]

>>3173765
>>3171704
Lmao, you probably got the best critique you could ask for, so don't whine. Saged because you're an actual troll.

[Anonymous No.3176261]

>>3173650
ffpbp

[Anonymous No.3176298]

>>3173645

"practice"

over 12 years wasted.

[zoot allures !!l4RuOLgUEPc No.3176329]

>>3176040
tell me how its a good critique. i've already dismantled it twice in this thread. remember to use your own words

[Anonymous No.3176532]

>>3176329
>tell me how its a good critique.
sure thing

I'd like to help you, but you need to listen and try to understand why people are telling you these things. So let me try.

I saw the post you are referring too and you were really wrong to brush aside there advice.

>>3173765
None these points are bad.

Here is how I read that anon's crit and my comment on his points;

> Why are you only copying manga/comic pages, don't do that.
He's right. Fan art is fine when it's trans-formative, but if you are just mindlessly (emphasis on mindlessly) copying you are wasting your time.

> Read books geared towards beginners
Good advice, books are awesome and you can go very far with them. Especially beginner books, the ones that have exercises in them are best. You need to do exercises in order to build up and learn to approach new problems.

>Constructing forms / Drapery are poor fix them
He told you this because your lines are shaky and look horrible and the photo studies you have the forms are way off. Yes you did it pen but that dose not matter because the work is poorly done. This also ties into the copying point anon made earlier. Yes you copied it to a recognizable point, but so what. You can't invent a scene like that or even draw it from memory so what good is it. Build up your draftsmanship and understanding of forms to a point where you do it from memory.

>Perspective / Composition, where is it?
Not much to say, you need to know this instinctively if you want to draw comics. You are not going to learn this but mindless copying

>Render forms / Color you need to do this
I didn't see any work in color and no significant rendering in your first thread and what hatching you did show is awful. Work on your values.

[Anonymous No.3176534]

>>3176532
cont.

>>3175947
>i already know how to draw.

Yes, but you can't draw well, which is the important part imo. You don't have to agree with everything someone tells you, but you need to shelf your impatience and arrogance. I don't know what kind of answer you expected to get but clearly it wasn't to one you got. If you understood those points it would reflect in your work. Kinda long, but I tried to keep it as short as possible hope it helps. Best of luck to us both and I wish you the best.

[Anonymous No.3176561]

>>3175947
>tripfag
>fucks up greentext
>repeats himself
>uses namedropping of mechanics as evidence he can draw
>referencing entry level manga as practice

>>>/i/

[Anonymous No.3176563]

Is zoot allures autistic?

[Anonymous No.3176566]

>>3173645
Anything /ic/ has ever told me.

[Anonymous No.3176687]

>>3173645
>start with loomis
when there are plenty of beginner books that teach almost the same method but in a more efficent way, waste of time shit

[Anonymous No.3176749]

>>3173645
"doing everything with any style" i think that wont work

[Anonymous No.3176845]

>>3173729
Billy Crystal

[zoot allures !!l4RuOLgUEPc No.3176854]

>>3176563

i've been posting on 4chan for over 10 years now. so yes.

>>3176532
>>3176534

good work. ill post a response later.

[Anonymous No.3176858]

>>3173765
the problem with you is that you don't want critique. you want praise and attention.

you're either a huge dunning kruger or just a sad troll.

[Anonymous No.3176863]

i got into a really good school for animation with with scholarship and my parents could afford sending me but I let 4chan talk me out of it and now I'm in community college studying engineering and I want to kill myself

[Anonymous No.3176866]

>>3176687
Best advice I have ever heard, depends on which boon you read loved successful drawing , fun with the pencil was meh, figure drawing for all its worth was hard

[zoot allures !!l4RuOLgUEPc No.3176888]

>>3176858

correction* i want critique with substance. your problem with me is i probably have more experience than you.

[Anonymous No.3178172]

>>3173645
>draw
drawing means shit if you dont do it with purpose. if you dont push yourself to do better you end up making shit like those abominations in the "how to draw manga" books. drawing should be done with purpose, not for the hell of it.

[Anonymous No.3178175]

>>3176687
Name some then? Oh wait you can't.

[Anonymous No.3178183]

>>3173645
Can someone find the sauce for that fanart? i want to give it a go myself

[Anonymous No.3178402]

>>3173765
>>/ic/thread/S3171704
This is his masterful pen drawings

He clearly have complete mastery of perspective, forms, rendering and composition. Why would he need to learn it again?

[Anonymous No.3178470]

>>3178175
sounds like you are a bit mad, bro
you mad bro? you mad?

[Anonymous No.3178473]

>>3178470
Yes I just broke my graphic tablet reading your reply go fuck yourself fuck.

[Anonymous No.3178567]

>>3176888
>critique with substance
Your posts aren't substantive enough to warrant real critiques. Very little of the aspects important to drawing can be found in your posts, and very little of the message in your posts are truly yours. They belong to Akira Toriyama.

I'm confused as to what you're hoping to achieve. Is your goal to become a comic artist? If so, do you really think there is a dire industry need for people who can halfassedly copy Akira Toriyama pages?

Drawing means very different things for artists and laypeople like you, and much of those things are actually practical. They are related to your ability to put out original work. You demonstrate none of them, which is why the responses you've gotten are broad and oriented toward the beginner. Of course, you may not have aspirations to be professional, or even to be a competent hobbyist, in which case you don't need a critique anyway. Just give your scribble to your mom and have it put on the fridge door. A hug and a pat on the head is all you need and deserve.

[Anonymous No.3178569]

>>3178567
>They belong to Akira Toriyama.
but toriyama copied me, all his work is rightfully mine

[Anonymous No.3178573]

>>3173922
Sargent didn't even have photoshop. Avoiding shortcuts isn't bad at all

[Anonymous No.3178591]

>>3178402
Just as I thought, another Dunning-Kruger.

[zoot allures !!l4RuOLgUEPc No.3179256]

>>3178567
how aren't they substantive enough? they are drawings aren't they? you cant critique fan art? my goal is to draw things im proud of and move forward as an artist. if you think its so unimpressive i challenge you to draw >>3178402 (id use the source material for reference), but remember you should do it with a pen like me and see how easy it is.

i love to do original artwork too, but even if i didn't as an artist you should still be able to critique any still life or fan art of mine but so few of you are apparently capable of doing this

>>3178402
i never said i had a complete mastery over perspective, forms, rendering and composition. i just said i know how to do that which >>3173765 implies i can't do any of it based off of some fan art.

[Anonymous No.3179288]

>>3179256
>they are drawings aren't they?

What's your point? If you showing something for critique you are saying "this is the best I can do, what do you think and how can I get better" unless you state otherwise. You are being and idiot. Stop acting like your work is great, it is clearly near beginner level (not absolute beginner).


You really have no argument, the work isn't good move on. And you still haven't responded to me >>3176532 or addressed any of my points which were;
[1] Unless you are doing a study of something (which you clearly weren't) then copying is pointless
[2] your draftsmanship and ability to construct forms is terrible
[3] You have no skills in regard to composition, color and rendering seeing as there is a complete lack of these things in your work we can only assume you avoid these because you do not know them.

People here are trying to help you, but your own ego won't let you listen to them. Just stop it.

[zoot allures !!l4RuOLgUEPc No.3179321]

>>3179288
my point is if you can't define your criticism with a piece of art then your opinion is invalidated by your own ignorance. just because you can't come up with a real argument as to why something is good or bad doesn't mean everyone else cant.

>Stop acting like your work is great, it is clearly near beginner level (not absolute beginner).

i've actually been very humble about my own work, its everyone else that seems to have a problem with it. unlike you i just don't give a shit if everyone else likes it or not and your misinterpreting that as a massive ego.

1. i was doing a study of how akira toriyama tells a story. he is one of the greats after all
2. personal opinion which has some merit but id mostly disagree with "terrible". like i said that page layout was a sketch i did for fun.
3. if you want to comment on my personal work i will be more than happy to share some more finished pieces.

im trying to help you, but your own stupid ego won't let you listen to me. stop thinking you know everything about art.

[Anonymous No.3179427]

>Keep drawing your other style because no one cares about your anime pics.

>MFW

[Anonymous No.3179465]

>>3174739
Advice to live by.

[Anonymous No.3179473]

>>3173645

begin with loomis. not even joking.

[Anonymous No.3179479]

lmao is this zoot guy for real?

[Anonymous No.3179521]

>>3173645
>What's the worst advice you ever had?
From art teachers? Wow. Where do I start? In college, in the early 90’s, I was painting a woman in a black dress with her back to the viewer. You could make out her cheekbone, one eyebrow. She was overlooking a beach/ ocean view and the whole style was very expressionist. My instructor for that class told me, I was cutting the viewer off to the point of being rude. Like by having the woman face the sea, I was turning my back on the viewer. I thought by cheating a bit of her face out, I was inviting the viewer to invision her face on their own. So I started another painting for class and I sold the original “rude” painting in a restaurant for $500. That advice taught me paint/draw for the professor and trust my own instincts outside of class.

[puts No.3179539]

>>3179321
hey, zoot, I challenge you to a draw off
you might even call it a gesture battle

[Anonymous No.3179560]

>>3179521
Your painting might well have been rude. That's not a fucking problem at all.

[Anonymous No.3179830]

>>3179560
Thanks. I didn’t think I was making “rude” art, but you’re right, even if I was, that has an audience. Your comment makes me feel better than $500 in the 90’s...Srsly, thx.

[Anonymous No.3179881]

>>3179539
lol gesture battles should be called sketch-offs instead. none of the gesture battles actually focused on the gesture, only on seeing who can crank out the best looking sketch in a couple minutes

[Anonymous No.3179889]

test

[puts No.3180013]

>>3179881
You shut your goddamn mouth.
Gesture battles have a very rich history in nose-sama's server

[Anonymous No.3180019]

>>3173922
Lasso is one way to create masks. Use what's best for you. I create layer masks, using whatever hardness of brush I need, and use the lasso and option key to capture large odd shaped areas to fill with the option/delete key. The one tool I very rarely use is the magic wand. I have worked for years editing and masking photos professionally, there's nothing wrong with the lasso tool, if it's appropriate to what you're working on. There are many different ways to get a selection done - layer mask, use the line tool to create path, the "select mask" from the menu, the lasso, the marqee...

Don't worry about what "everyone else" does. Worry about what works for you. This isn't a competition.

[Anonymous No.3180023]

>>3178402
Wow. His arrogance does not match his skill.

[Anonymous No.3180045]

>>3173645
>What's the worst advice you ever had?

"You don't need a rubber."

[Anonymous No.3180334]

>>3173645
>never use soft brush
i've been avoiding it, don't know why

[Anonymous No.3180356]

>>3173645
"Anime is poison and will harm you, don't draw it."

For the most part you can draw whatever you want and learn however you want and it'll work out eventually. The people who get obsessed with trash talking anime and other things like that remind me of the people who hang out on programming forums and whose sole pleasure in life is telling beginners that they're learning the "wrong" programming language.

[zoot allures !!l4RuOLgUEPc No.3180358]

>>3179539
my body is ready

[Anonymous No.3180395]

>>3180013
a rich history of nosey losing lol. they're fun, it's nice to see how the judges troll nosebro

[Anonymous No.3180405]

>>3179830
Do you have a photo of that painting?

[puts No.3181010]

>>3180358
https://discord.gg/ZhWhX3

[Anonymous No.3181294]

>>3180334
this was the best advice i was ever given

[Anonymous No.3184667]

>>3179521

Any source on the art you posted? Or author? I wouldn't mind including it in some schoolwork and need to cite.

[Anonymous No.3184670]

>>3179539
Did someone say...

GESTURE

BATTLE

[Anonymous No.3184736]

>>3173645
>Smoking weed, like, makes your mind expand, man. It totally makes you do some deep art...

Fucking stoners. I should have never smoked weed,

[Anonymous No.3184742]

>>3176019

>>>>3173645

Quote from Hitler, Mein Kampf: "Good art is only done by the gifted ones. Degenerate art is done by retards"

[Anonymous No.3184745]

>>3184742
Edit:
Go read up jewish, zionist articles about hitlers art. You can see the bitterness and jealousy from the shekels.

No, not everybody can paint like a master. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.3184754]

>>3173765
are namefags bound by law to be retarded, or what

[Anonymous No.3185408]

Just checked /ic/ to for my occasional book thread browsing but decided to post some good advice here instead. I think what this guy says applies to /ic/ pretty well https://youtu.be/6zmCNAkamdk?t=3461

[Anonymous No.3185529]

>>3173765
Agree, fucking hate these piece of shit critiques hurr durr read "Loomis". Just say something relevant to the to be critiqued drawing instead of spamming the same generic parroted unhelpful regurgitated " advice" for the 1000th time. As if anyone don't know Loomis. I try to help begs regularly and it makes my blood boil when others try to discourage begs by giving shitty advice.

[Anonymous No.3185764]

>>3185529
Imagine art teacher looking at your work and telling you to learn perspective and read Loomis. This never happens.

[Anonymous No.3185769]

>>3185529
If we have to tell you to read Loomis or anything else in the sticky, it means your fundamentals are shit and explaining "in detail" why is a big waste of our time. Do your own damn homework and stop expecting others to spoonfeed you.

[Anonymous No.3185773]

>>3185764
a good art teacher have their own method that they pass down to their students. a bad one doesnt even know construction method exist and that copying is the ultimate form of art

[Anonymous No.3185852]

>>3185769
What's the fucking point of /beg/ then? /beg/ is usually full of clueless, dumb and lost autists so the Loomis shtick isn't exactly going to help them. After throwing Loomis for the hundredth time, have you still not get that they're just not getting it? Parroting Loomis is no better than virtue signaling, it's fucking cancer. If you don't intend to help, then stop cluttering the fucking thread with LOOMIS LOOMIS LOOMIS. Are you actually trying to tie them down? Did you think that you were actually contributing instead of shitposting? Did you realise that one path/ method may not work for all? Have you not realised that the word "fundamental" is a fucking vague for /beg/ in such a fashion that they MAY ACTUALLY NEED HANDHOLDING? /beg/ have the tendency to make more mistakes than their advanced counterpart, and getting critiques is a most necessary thing in order to internalise bad habits. They're bad at noticing mistakes and throwing a book at them is not a remedy to everything. Loomis sucks anyway (in regards to /beg/), long live Hogarth, Zarin and Vilppu!

Again, realise that spamming Loomis a la need moar fundies maymay without giving actual critique is fucking cancer. Realise that if anyone could learn from books without guidance they would all have become engineer/gained STEM degrees and leave this shithole. That's why we need IDs and a containment thread for shitposters like you. You're the reason why part of /ic/ sucks.

>>3185773
I agree that having a good teacher is important. Having a good teacher in any disciple makes the difference day and night. My personal experience at a still life "studio" was wasted on actually training my eyeballing for one year without receiving significant advice. I did piano/strength conditioning with a teacher/mentor and those disciple(s) absolutely requires you to get a teacher in order to not acquire bad habits resulting injuries, it is not wrong to apply the same principle to drawing.

[Anonymous No.3185856]

>>3185852
Correction: I meant to say "in order to avoid internalising bad habits" instead of ""in order to avoid internalising bad habits"

[Anonymous No.3185858]

>>3185856
Fucking mobile, it's actually: "in order to avoid internalising bad habits" instead of "in order to internalise bad habits".

[Anonymous No.3185864]

>>3185852
The fuck? Critique on the critique board? Who would stoop so low? Go read my favourite novel and then critique yourself, faggot. You aren't worth us fellow discordians' time. Hail nosebro!

[Anonymous No.3185884]

>>3185852
I'm actually against Loomis posting but if you spent a few seconds reading the post the tripfag was bawwwing about, the original post gone out of his way to recommend books that would have helped him because get this, not everyone has time to hold your hand.

>Have you not realised that the word "fundamental" is a fucking vague for /beg/ in such a fashion that they MAY ACTUALLY NEED HANDHOLDING?
HUURRRDURRRRRRRR. We explain what the fundamentals are in the fucking sticky. There's a reason why we tell people to read the fucking sticky before posting here.

[Anonymous No.3185893]

>>3185884
>>>/ic/thread/S3171704
ffs, he even admitted he didn't read any books aside from comic books.

[Anonymous No.3186213]

>>3173645
Anyone can learn to draw

[Anonymous No.3186593]

>>3186213
but not everyone wants to when they find out how hard it is to draw objectively well.