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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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3167237 No.3167237 [Reply] [Original]

>> No.3167238

>>3167237
not as much as neuroplasticity

>> No.3167266

>>3167237
lol sycra is shit

>> No.3167378

>>3167266
that didn't answer my question retard

>> No.3167405

>>3167238
talent is real though. Neuroplasticity is a meme for low IQ morons who think your brain somehow shuts down all learning capacity at the ripe age of 25, when every scientist, doctor, programmer, engineer, lawyer etc is just beginning or in the middle of learning their profession.

>> No.3167412

>>3167405

Neuroplasticity does decrease after the age of 25. So as long as you start before the age of 25 you should be fine. Also I'd argue drawing is way harder than being a programmer, engineer, lawyer, etc. Not everyone can can learn to draw.

>> No.3167414

Talent is not real.

People with "natural talent" are just genuinely interesting in something more than the people around him. And these same people are willing to put more time into this subject because to them they gain something out of it.

Drive + Skill = The Illusion of "Talent"

>> No.3167417

>>3167412

>Also I'd argue drawing is way harder than being a programmer, engineer, lawyer, etc.

Then argue it, because all you did was make a basically unverifiable statement.

>> No.3167418

>>3167417

This board is proof. There I just body bagged and toe tagged yourself.

>> No.3167422

>>3167412
>Neuroplasticity, also known as brain plasticity or neural plasticity, is an umbrella term that describes lasting change to the brain throughout an individual's life course. The term gained prominence in the latter half of the 20th century, when new research showed that many aspects of the brain can be altered (or are "plastic") even into adulthood.
>This notion is in contrast with the previous scientific consensus that the brain develops during a critical period in early childhood and then remains relatively unchanged (or "static")

The whole research field of neuroplasticity is literally the exact opposite of what you crab people say it is.

>> No.3167427

>>3167418
It would only be proof if this board was filled with successful lawyers, programmers and engineers, you dumbfuck. Someone who is a bad artist and has never tried to go through lawschool is not proof that either one is harder than the other.

>> No.3167439

>>3167417
With traditional drawing, you essentially have to create everything from scratch. The only thing you don't have to make is the pencil and paper, but you have to do everything else.

Imagine you want to sit down and play the piano. But, rather than simply sit down and play, you have to construct the whole piano first, make sure the notes are tuned to the correct pitches, make sure the engineering works well, make sure it's up to a standard quality for it to sound decent, and before you start playing, you have to learn music theory, write a song on paper, get uninspired and trash the whole thing, find inspiration again and finish the song, learn how to play the piano, learn how to read music, then finally play the damn song only to realize it's complete garbage.
Sure that would be fine if you had to go through that whole process once. But with drawing/designing, you have to do that every single time, from scratch.

Artists need to be able to construct a version of their own reality so that it's convincing. Artists have to create the box every single time and break out of it every single time.
A programmer has software and hardware limitations that direct them, 3d modelers also have soft/hardware and graphical/engine limitations. Lawyers must know the law in order to engage within it. Imagine if your lawyer was in charge of their own set of laws, and the level of convincing power he has was determined by comparing that to a basic understanding of how laws work.

Hopefully you understand now. Of course life becomes easier when you do a 3d to 2d workflow or use reference or whatever "crutch" is available.

>> No.3167449

>>3167439
this

>> No.3167458

>>3167439
Only building a piano from scratch would be infinitely harder than drawing a fucking picture.

>> No.3167491

>>3167458
Ask a beginner to realistically depict and render a city street scene with only a pencil and paper. With infinite time, sure. Give them a week, and they'll be sweating in no time. It's until you use reference, perspective guides/rulers/grids, etc that someone with no experience drawing could at least have some help drawing a scene that demanding.

It's just as hard if not harder. With a piano everything you need to build it already exists.

>> No.3167525

>>3167237

Talent is a genetic predisposition.

>>3167414

bullshit, next you will say Black men just practiced having giant dicks.

>> No.3167530

>>3167427
there is no board for doctors, because there is no need. The schools for doctors are successful at teaching their students the craft

meanwhile, for drawing, we have this board, where ppl come and complain why the years they wasted in the art school did nothing for them

>> No.3167546

>>3167458
You can't just 'build' a piano, it is a complicated instrument that requires technical illustrations before the parts can be made and assembled.

>> No.3167853

>>3167439
Some engineers have people's lives in their hands, just a little fuck up and hundreds of people die; if a layer fucks up the life of their client is potentially ruined. Not really comparable with drawing, sorry.

>> No.3167856

>>3167853
>lives in their hands
So do cooks, firefighters, cops, nurses, security guards, 911 dispatchers, crossing guards, your dog, your parents, etc...you're grasping for straws my man

>> No.3167861

>>3167856
All those things are harder than drawing, except probably the dog.

>> No.3167863

>>3167861
No, they really aren't. Just admit it and we can move on with our day.

>> No.3167865

>>3167863
>J-just agree withh me! pls

>> No.3167871
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3167871

>>3167865
please por que si

>> No.3167911

>>3167412
Neuroplasticity starts gradually lowering from age 25 but it can be calculated in percents. By the age 45 you've lost something like 2 percent of neuroplasticity in the narrow tasks researchers test it with.

>> No.3167939

>Sycra
Oh boy the shit might or might not hit the fan soon. If any of you are one of the lucky 100 who were in Istebrak's stream last night you know what I'm talking about.

>> No.3167946

>>3167939
what is it?

>> No.3167948

>>3167412

Not everyone can learn to draw regardless of age. It's hard or nearly impossible to learn things that doesn't interest you. Unless it's something that is required for you to gain things that you want.

If you don't enjoy the process of learning you won't be able to learn it as fast and eventually you'll quit and blame it on talent or neuroplasticity (fucking kek).

>> No.3168032

>>3167237
Imagine the following scenarii:
You are alone on a small boat in the middle of the sea. How many oars must you give to join the shore?
> [ ] 10 000 hours
> [ ] it depends on my genes
> [ ] as many as necessary

>> No.3168133

>>3167414
Two siblings receive musical training from their father and an extremely similar regimen of training from a very early age

One of them, who has insane memory and absolute pitch, turns out to become a masterful composer/musician. The other is Mozart's sister.

>> No.3168142

>>3167237
He looks like a mass murderer.

>> No.3168254

>>3167414
Talent does exist, but I think it's often misunderstood what talent actually is. Talent is simply the ability to learn things really fast. If we were to take two people. One is talented or naturally gifted, and the other is regular. And put them through a trial and error test to arrive at a certain conclusion. The talented person will arrive at that conclusion after fewer attempts compared to the average person. That's because they can learn more from mistakes, experiences, lissons, tutorials..etc and this ability is mostly genetic (IQ) and how fast a person can know is depending on how high is the IQ. Of course that shouldn't discourage us from learning stuff just because some people are faster. Luck play a huge role in the pursuit of our goals and talent is only one aspect of luck among many. Maybe you have more supportive parents, or maybe you are born rich...etc all of those are advantages or disadvantages that are often beyond our control. That's life.

>> No.3168262

>>3167439
The limits that direct artists are perspective, form, composition, light, color theory and anatomy. These don’t change. They’ve been invented, and while an artist can bend them if they want (surrealist perspective, Soejima necks, etc.), they absolutely do not have to reinvent any of them.

>> No.3168280

>>3167439
this analogy is stupid.i am a musician and teach, and can say that learning both drawing and music are similar

your analogy is like saying we have to build wacoms to paint, or chop a tree down to make pencils in order to sketch

People are just so mystified by intelligence and hard work, they have to blab about how "it's sooo much harder than xyz" even though it's easy to some people

Art might feel that way to you, but i have pro friends that shit out paintings no problem and even find client work a bit boring now

>> No.3168303

>>3168254
Saved. This is encouraging. Thanks Anon!

>> No.3168306

>>3167939
what the problem? I knew sycra and istebrak were on good terms
> If any of you are one of the lucky 100 who were in Istebrak's stream
too niche for me

>> No.3168320

>>3167939
What happened?

>> No.3168323

>>3168133
>According to New Grove, "from 1769 onwards she was no longer permitted to show her artistic talent on travels with her brother, as she had reached a marriageable age."

mozart's sister could have been just as great as mozart, if she was born with a dick.

>> No.3168329

>>3168133
Them being siblings doesn't mean shit. Siblings genes vary widely. You can give birth to an intelligent child and a Retard.

>> No.3168499

>>3167412
>>Not everyone can can learn to draw.
if people took the same approach to drawing as they did to learning programming(breaking things down, fundamentals, time and effort) maybe they'd learn to draw?

>> No.3168510

>>3168499

then why is /ic/ behind if it's that easy

>> No.3168518

>>3168510
>effort

That’s why.

>> No.3168522

>>3168510

It's not easy, it's simple.

>> No.3168527

>>3167530

So you're saying because retards who aren't smart enough to become doctors, lawyers etc in the first place SOMEHOW manage to fuck up art school, that means it's harder?

No it's not harder, the bar is just lower. By the time you're in law school / med school you've already proven yourself to be highly intelligent and highly motivated. The ones who weren't didn't get there in the first place. Meanwhile there's a significant number of incredibly unintelligent and incredibly poorly motivated wannabe artists who still get into art schools.

>> No.3168562

>>3168254
this is the most sensible answer i've seen on /ic/ in a long time. wow

>> No.3168573

>>3168527

Sorry dear, there is art school and then there is "art school". There is no such thing as med school and then "med school". Please try again.

>> No.3171572

>>3167939
????

>> No.3171601

>>3168323
>some meme propagated by a late 19th century encyclopedia

>>3168329
That's the point? Talent = genes

>> No.3171605

>>3167414
I know plenty of people who are more "passionate" about art than me and draw more but never seem to improve. Feels good to have talent :^)

>> No.3171608

>>3171605
most people who saw your work would not think you're talented though.

>> No.3171686

>>3167237
Yeah. It's Talent x Effort. So having no talent means you can't learn at all, a little means you can be half decent, plenty of talent means you can be great, and so on.