/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.3155235]

Hey /ic/. Just yesterday I got done doing a digital portrait for $70. imo that's a lot for a personal commission portrait.

Today I found out that an artist that inspired me to start art when I was 15 opened commissions. i swear, he never improved in the past 8 years, if possible he got worse because of over-stylization. but i got nostalgic and thought I'd commission him for keepsake. i asked for a portrait. he said it would be $130. I was expecting it be like $20 at most. I don't want to post either of our work, but pic related is close to my and his level. idk what tools he uses, but it mostly looks like colored pencils with some random paint.

so now I'm thinking, am I fucking undercharging? Or has this bloke just played a couple of normies convincing them his art was worth that much, and now he's used to it? maybe he's better at marketing, has better connections?

[Anonymous No.3155239]

>>3155235
It's connection homie. Although, depends on how much time you each spent on it

[Anonymous No.3155240]

A portrait could conceivably take all day-or more. $130 is a fair price. $20 is a joke. I wipe my ass with that.

[Anonymous No.3155242]

>>3155235
How many hours does a portrait take you? If it's around 7 hours then you are a fucking slave and you have a slave mentality thinking you shouldn't charge more than 10 bucks an hour.

Jesus artists in general just charge shit, even 120 bucks is nothing if it's more than 5 hours of work, you can't make a fucking living out of that, hoping to get a comission every single day to barely scrape by.

[Anonymous No.3155243]

>>3155235
Your level is the right? Kek.

[Anonymous No.3155245]

Prices are based on reputation and popularity not anything else, people will set price generally at what others will pay.

Look at furries, shit furfags who draw at a basic level are pulling $200 per single basic drawing just because they've been in the game so long and got lots of followers. Hell some furfags pay over $500, $1000 and etc just cos the artist is popular.

[Anonymous No.3155250]

You shouldn't get even a sketch for $20 imo

[Anonymous No.3155253]

>>3155242
>even 120 bucks is nothing if it's more than 5 hours of work, you can't make a fucking living out of that
but for now I only do personal commissions, not professional work yet. There's a massive difference. Random people will not pay hundreds for a portrait unless you have huge popularity or elite skill. Even when my prices were a bit less, it would scare away 90% of people who asked for the prices.

[Anonymous No.3155254]

>>3155253
Then get a real job and only do art to focus on improvement. If your skill is minimum wage then go get real consistent part time work and spend the rest of your time on fundies.

[Anonymous No.3155255]

>>3155253
Have you done any research on that? Your idol has done just well with his prices I assume.

[Anonymous No.3155257]

>>3155254
>only do art to focus on improvement.
that IS what i'm doing. i don't do commissions for a living, people just come up to me sometimes and I accept them when they do.

my point is, personal commissions are never high. this here is an example of someone who charges $70 for their work.

[Anonymous No.3155259]

>>3155257
He's undercharging too.

[Anonymous No.3155262]

>>3155257
>>3155259
You're both wrong. That artist is Russian. Russian currency is weak. $70 is a lot of money in Russia. The average monthly wage is well under $400. $70 to her is like $300 for you. Now you know.

[Anonymous No.3155276]

>>3155235
Only 70$, are you an idiot? People pay what they believe something is worth and if you charge at such a low price than they see your work as being cheap. If your as skilled as the you say you are (left image?) than your driving down the market value of every skilled artist trying to start. Art is a luxury that no one needs, if you are rich enough to afford something you dont need, you can pay well past hundreds of dollars. But if you offer the luxury at dollar store prices why pay higher? Charging less money can also scare away customers who want quality. They will think that the price reflects talent and believe that your cheap prices means that you suck at drawing. Not everyone can get ahold of commisioning famous artist anyway so lots of people ask talented nobodies.

Lets say it took you four hours to paint the left image. At 70$, you are working for about 17.50$. You can make more money working 4hours overtime as a security guard and you don't need any skill to do that. Also, you don't have a reliable source of income because its commision work. Whens the next paycheck and job?

All that time spent practicing form and construction, studying the fundies, drawing from real life to develop a skill that 99.9% of humanity completely lacks and you value yourself like a mcdonalds employee? Its completely ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.3155283]

>>3155235
Demand is the only thing that sets prices. Not your skill, not the time you spend, nothing other than demand.

[Anonymous No.3155426]

>>3155276
>>3155259
>>3155254

Do any of you even actually DO comissions? Because I don't think you do. I only hear this "you're working poverty status, wake up sheep!1" from people with absolutely no sense of market, who wish they could be pulling bank from comissions as their wet dream, but don't 1) have the skills 2) have the following to do so. Go make something like >>3155257
and ask 200$ for it. Go ahead. Come back to me 4 years later crying because you can't "make it". Be sure to create a butthurt thread here too.

NOBODY pays that much for this kind of art unless they're mentally challenged, and they can't get their fix from anywhere else aside from a very specific niche. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Art ONLY follows this idealistic "Money/hour" scheme when you're employed by serious companies, because they have to pay you that by a contract established previously or they get their shit sued to hell. When you're doing comissions, the single thing that governs how much you make is how much people are willing to pay you, and guess what, that's not much 80% of the time, because yes, art isn't a need.

If I asked the guy on the left in OP's image and he demanded 160$ for it I'd drop that shit and either look for somebody with reasonable prices or just look up "fox girl" on danbooru and save 200 images just like that one.

tl;dr: Get some market sense.

[Anonymous No.3155494]

>>3155426
if you’re not good enough to get paid decently for your work, you’re still retarded for working for peanuts instead of improving

>hurr durr giving blowjobs for $5 is completely normal in this economy!
>sluts give blowjobs for free every day, why would anyone pay more than a fiver inless they’re mentally challenged

[Anonymous No.3155502]

>>3155426
>If I asked the guy on the left in OP's image and he demanded 160$ for it I'd drop that shit and either look for somebody with reasonable prices or just look up "fox girl" on danbooru and save 200 images just like that one.

Oh fuck off. Then do it, nobody's obligated to make custom art for you for $3 an hour.

Reasonable is relative, as already discussed, the artist in question is Russian and $70 to us is $300 to them. You have a right to choose between the two, but a domestic artist charging a poverty wage while sacrificing time they could spend improving is not "good market sense".

>art isn't a need

Not an argument. Neither is 90% of the other shit people spend their money on. Some people spend upwards of $4,000 a year on cigarettes, some spend nearly as much on booze and shit like that at the same goddamn time. A couple hundred bucks for custom artwork isn't dick.

[Anonymous No.3155504]

>>3155235

Another psyop to convince fellow /ic/ dumbasses to demand mc donald's tier pay for their work

[Anonymous No.3155505]

>>3155276
this is news to me, because as I've said; I thought this was a standard price. Most artists I see with commission sheets very rarely charge anywhere near $100 for a just portrait with no background, so I actually thought I was on the expensive side. It's great that apparently I should be charging way more, but realistically as >>3155426
said, i doubt I would get any takers. Just a few months ago my price for a portrait was $50, and most people who asked for my price range wouldn't reply after I told them. Now if I start charging something like $300, I doubt I'll be getting any commissions at all. Normal people (not professional clients) who are just looking for a painting of their OC or themselves or whatever, are not going to have that budget.

[Anonymous No.3155512]

>>3155505
You could definitly charge $500.00 for a personal portrait commission. It's not at all unheard of. Charge more money. I promise you that it'll be easier to land one $500 commission than it will be to land ten $50 commissions.

>Normal people (not professional clients) who are just looking for a painting of their OC or themselves or whatever, are not going to have that budget.

You've admitted that you already don't know what you're talking about. Now you're acting like you know how much money people have. This is also not true - people have money and will pay well for good work (good work =/= absolutely amazing work, you don't have to be that good to get commissions).


> I see with commission sheets
Move away from these awful commissions sheets where you lay out your prices like it's a fast-food menu. This is one of the worst practices I see new illustrators doing here. If you're going to do personal commissions, say you're open to them and have them contact you with what they're looking for.

>Normal people (not professional clients) who are just looking for a painting of their OC
Here's your problem. You're attracting bad clients. These are not 'normal' people. These are weebs trying to take advantage of the abundant supply of artists underselling themselves with commission charts. Maybe if you stopped trying to cater to this type of client, you would find more personal clients that pay better.

More than anything though, you should move away from personal commissions and focus instead on commercial clients. You get paid so much more, you get lots of repeat work, and the people you work with are much more professional and easier to work with. Don't set your standards so low.

[Anonymous No.3155516]

look up pencil portrait artists and see their rates, then realise how retarded you are

the average artist with a stool on the street is earning more than you

[Anonymous No.3155534]

>>3155512
quality post

[Anonymous No.3155537]

>>3155512
fucking thank you. If you want to be a really successful artist get out of the nerd bubble.

[Anonymous No.3155539]

>>3155512
>I promise you that it'll be easier to land one $500 commission than it will be to land ten $50 commissions.
Proof?

[Anonymous No.3155546]

>>3155512
How does one get commercial work then?

[Anonymous No.3155553]

>>3155546
seconding this.
how do you make that transition from follower commissions to professional illustration?

[Anonymous No.3155561]

>>3155546
>>3155553
Pitch yourself to companies, art directors, professional people from the industry. Nothing will happen for itself if you will just sit on your butt. Ask, send portfolios, present yourself. Of course If you making anime low tier art it's almost impossible. Freelance but for mature people that know your work's value.

[Anonymous No.3155564]

>>3155561
So who are the go-to for works of anime?

[Anonymous No.3155570]

>>3155245
>>3155283
Bakas.
If you're willing to pay a hundred bucks for something and the seller offers you fifty, do you give him a hundred just because that matches your demand or the seller's reputation?
An idiot will get screwed over no matter what the ideal free market situation is.

[Anonymous No.3155576]

>>3155283
the supplier is who sets prices
the point is to set it to the most profitable point the demand allows, not to be cheap because you insist on targeting penniless retards

[Anonymous No.3155577]

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttts the cowardly world of freelance

annnnndd lackk kof credentialls

kek major tom

[Anonymous No.3155578]

>>3155546
>>3155553

Attached is a good summary of the basic steps to follow in order to build a freelance career. I wrote this a while ago and it seemed to help a lot of people sort of feel a little less lost.

[Anonymous No.3155581]

>>3155564

[Anonymous No.3155584]

>>3155578
thanks mate.

[Anonymous No.3155596]

>>3155578
is everyone open to contact? i know a few companies I want to work for, but they all seem to go to the artist. my plan was to just start an artstation with my best work, and yeah, just sit on my butt and wait to get noticed (sorry if dumb question, i am inexperienced:^(

[Anonymous No.3155604]

>>3155596
Not a dumb question at all.

>is everyone open to contact?
Some businesses may have certain requirements for how to submit work to them for review. These can usually be found in an FAQ or somewhere else obvious on their website. For the most part though, emailing your work and introducing yourself is totally acceptable.

>but they all seem to go to the artist
Sometimes they do. However, there is no reason you can't go to them first.

>my plan was to just start an artstation with my best work, and yeah, just sit on my butt and wait to get noticed
I understand the reasoning behind wanting to do this. It seems like once you get 'big' enough, work will just start rolling in.

I cannot stress enough how much it is a bad idea to have your only plan hinge on being 'discovered' and getting your big break. It's totally fine to develop of a social media presence in addition to your other promotional efforts, but understand that it is very, very unlikely that you are going to noticed at all, let alone build a career from doing nothing but posting on social media.

Instead, you should take 'luck' out of the equation as much as you can, and take your success into your own hands. Developing a focused portfolio and promoting yourself directly to decision makers is a proactive and effective way to start getting more opportunities for yourself. It's still incredibly difficult to do (no one said it would be easy!), but you'll have a much, much more realistic chance of success than sitting around hoping for things to come to you.

Hope that helps!

[Anonymous No.3155620]

>>3155604
helps a load, anon thanks!

[Anonymous No.3155682]

>>3155512
>Move away from these awful commissions sheets where you lay out your prices like it's a fast-food menu.
I took sheets for granted but now that you put this way... it makes sense people will contact you if they like your art, and you can haggle with them afterwards.

[Anonymous No.3155689]

>>3155502
Of course nobody is obligated. I'm the one doing the art, lol. And I'm not doing it for peanuts either, but I have a clue, and I know my clients won't ever fucking pay that much for something like digital art. Traditional, maybe.

>Not an argument. Neither is 90% of the other shit people spend their money on. Some people spend upwards of $4,000 a year on cigarettes, some spend nearly as much on booze and shit like that at the same goddamn time. A couple hundred bucks for custom artwork isn't dick.

Wow, getting to the "not and argument" meme area here are we? Have you noticed all your examples were addictions? Things that mess chemically with you brain and methabolism? Unless you found a way to insert cocaine into your digital art, you won't get that. The only way you'll do it is by the very same thing I mentioned in my previous post.

I know you are all so sad to hear this and rather believe on the feelgood message of "everyone can do it! <3", so keep deluding yourselves. Less competition anyway, but do remenber what I'm saying the next time you ask yourselves why aren't you making any money with art whatsoever.

OP has the right mind at least. His prices are reasonable from what I can see.

[Anonymous No.3155691]

>>3155570
I have no idea what you're trying to say.

>>3155576
You said the same as me.

[Anonymous No.3155707]

>>3155689
>my clients
shit service gets shit clients
cheap service gets cheap clients

stop designing your business around dealing with shit clients, you fucking idiot

[Anonymous No.3155710]

>>3155691
no, I didn’t, you’re just too stupid to understand the difference

[Anonymous No.3155754]

>i charge 70$ but expect the guy who had years more of experience ti charge a third of that
bugga what?

[Anonymous No.3155756]

>>3155754
>i swear, he never improved in the past 8 years, if possible he got worse because of over-stylization.
did you read this part? what's experience worth if it amounted to nothing?

[Anonymous No.3155788]

>>3155756
$50 extra, apparently

[Anonymous No.3156281]

Artist who use cheap commission sheets deserves to be continuously taken advantage of and ripped off.

[Anonymous No.3156317]

I don't think $70 is bad. I have to be in an office hell doing boring suicide tier shit for 4 hours to make that after-tax. I'd rather spend 20 hours painting than 4 hours in an office. Thanks /ic/. I'm closing in on this level and people like my portraits, think I found my side gig. Get my portfolio up and a few months more practice and I can start making some utt bank. I have a following on dumblr. Is there another site that's better?

[Anonymous No.3156447]

>>3156317
the important difference is that you’re guaranteed 140+ dollars a work day with your job, while op is guaranteed not to ever break 70, and that’s assuming he has people commissioning him 5 days a week (spoilers: he doesn’t)

[Anonymous No.3156449]

>>3156447
you ok bud?

[Anonymous No.3156450]

>>3155710
you just expanded on what I said. I've been in the commission business for years now. I exactly know what I'm talking about.
the ONLY thing that sets your prices is demand. now cry me a river again, tardo.

[Anonymous No.3156456]

>>3156450
>being this stupid on purpose
You deserve what you get 2bh

[Anonymous No.3156472]

>>3156447

Art commisions are not a replacement for a job, but a supplement. I would never depend on it.

I think my skill is approaching the point and would like to try it.

[Anonymous No.3156525]

>>3156472
>Art commissions are not a replacement for a job,

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I don't know why you would think this, unless you think 'art commissions' only refers to working these low-paying personal gigs off the internet.

[Anonymous No.3156533]

>>3156450
>I've been in the commission business for years making $3 an hour

You're not a very good businessman to be honest then, family member

[Anonymous No.3156556]

>>3156472
the thing is that art will never be able to replace your job if it’s secondary to your job

if you want art to be your job, you need to treat it as your job instead of “getting better” in your spare time hoping things will just happen for you

and if you don’t wnt art to be your job, using it for “supplemental income” is fucking retarded, since you will never get good enough for it to bring you any decent money, nor will you be able to put in sufficient time into projects even if you did get good for it to matter, and literally anything else would bring you more money

you’re the guy plucking at his guitar every day for an hour, going nowhere, while people get 1000 euros a night playing the same 10 songs in a bar and getting connected with other musicians and venues

[Anonymous No.3156557]

>>3155235
I like the image on the right more.

[Anonymous No.3156811]

>>3155235
Image on the left is more pleasing to the eye. Maybe it's the softer colors.

Anyways; I feel like /ic/ doesn't have a general concept is what it means to be a client. All I see is; "Your time is valuable, make that money". While this is true; if your art doesn't show for it then that doesn't mean anything. As an artist, your time is valuable. However, the client doesn't care about that. They want to know if you can deliver for the amount that you're charging. Sometimes; I've commissioned pricier artists, gotten the final result, and thought to myself "This wasn't worth the money."

Whose the artist on the left? They're art looks relaxing.

Artists are a dime a dozen. If I don't like someone's price, I'll look for another who'll do it cheaper and and most of the time better.

[Anonymous No.3156814]

>>3155564
From my experience small youtubers and apps are a good way to find some clients.

[Anonymous No.3156840]

Oh, there's a lot going on in this thread. Sorry if I end up repeating what other people posted. I do not have it in me to actually read /ic/ replies right now.

The pay per hour thing is silly. I charge around $200 for a waist up portrait with color, no background. I should also mention that my art style is very fashion illustration-y and my average customer is...a bride. I can count on one hand the number of commissions I've received that weren't "Please draw me in my wedding dress!" If you can handle working with ye olde bridezilla, I highly recommend it. Now, do I put in $200 of work into these things? Not really. I work with brush markers and watercolor. My style is very loose. I think the appeal of my art would be lost if I spent any more than two hours on a single illustration. I take the time to mail the brides the illustrations when I'm done, so theoretically, you COULD say that they were getting a deal because they have muh original, but what the fuck was I going to do with that anyway? It would have ended up in the trash. Instead, I get to say I'll mail you the original drawing for a teeny tiny extra payment of $50. Again, brides are crazy. CRAZY RICH.

Anyway, back to my point. Art is not one of those things where you can realistically per hour. You need to compare yourself to people in similar categories to you, skill levels to you, styles to you, etc. You can easily get away with charging more with little "perks" (like me mailing the originals out). Perhaps this guy mails out his originals. Digital artists, you can email the person the original PSD or the hi-res version of the drawing for an extra $10 (or however much it's worth to you- I don't do digital sorry I wish I could be more helpful here).

Think of your art less along the lines of something like office work and more along the lines of a product you're selling. I hope this wasn't too hard to follow.

[Anonymous No.3156903]

Numyumy, who is now a disgraced tracer and sakimichan ass-licker, used to charge around $560 for portraits, and a couple hundred more for males because they were harder for her to do. she actually said she had "too many commissions" at one point.

[Anonymous No.3156905]

>>3156811
The irony here is you are literally irrelevant, and clients are more disposable than artists, especially the ones who think they have any sort of leverage over the artist because they decided to spend a couple of bucks.

>If I don't like someone's price, I'll look for another who'll do it cheaper
Good job, you discovered the entire point of posting rates publicly: to keep undesirables out of your email inbox.
It’s not there to attract people with amazing cheap prices, it’s there to filter people who are actually going to pay.

[Anonymous No.3156911]

>>3155235
>digital portrait

What do you mean by this? Someone paid you to copy a photo? Or did they ask you to draw them riding a dragon or something weird?

[Anonymous No.3157151]

>>3156905
Cheap prices bring in customers; more customers mean more money, then when you have a good enough following; you can charge more for it and have it available to a wider audience and possible clients.

>>3156905
>It’s not there to attract people with amazing cheap prices, it’s there to filter people who are actually going to pay.

Who said anything about leverage?
It was about artists being a dime a dozen. You are just as replacable as the clients
Anything over $300, I'd take half payment first as an initiative to get started. That way, neither side gets screwed. I've heard stories of it happening both ways. Client screws over artist. Artist taking the money and running. Learn business 101 before trying to be an internet smartass. In fact; post your prices and art. Let's see if you're really that good.

[Anonymous No.3157339]

>>3155235
>pic related is close to my and his level

For some reason I've become extremely suspicious of claims of how skillful people are because most of the time it's ridiculously exaggerated.

[Anonymous No.3157361]

>>3157151
>Cheap prices bring in customers; more customers mean more money,
lolno
More money means more money.
More customers means more time investment. That’s time you could invest in more profitable venues, of which there are plenty in illustration, regardless of skill level.

“More customers = more money” isn’t even true for commercial businesses, most profit comes from lean manufacturing, increasing margins and eliminating expenses, of which time is the biggest issue.

Selling 1 thing for a million > selling a million thngs for 1 dollar each

[Anonymous No.3157374]

>>3157151
>Cheap prices bring in customers; more customers mean more money
No. it means more cheap labor, if you're going to do accept a job, it should be worth your time, unless you're a desperate starving artist who needs whatever you can get.

>Anything over $300, I'd take half payment first as an initiative to get started. That way, neither side gets screwed. I've heard stories of it happening both ways. Client screws over artist. Artist taking the money and running. Learn business 101 before trying to be an internet smartass.
wtf does this have to do with anything?
and protip: you're stupid. take full payment upfront. If you've done commissions before, there's no reason for them to not trust that you'll deliver it. this is a good way for YOU to get screwed over. The client can disappear cut contact much easier than the artist can.

[Anonymous No.3159019]

>>3155242
>How many hours does a portrait take you? If it's around 7 hours then you are a fucking slave and you have a slave mentality thinking you shouldn't charge more than 10 bucks an hour.
$10 an hour is actually decent, imo
It's well above minimum wage at least

But maybe I just think that bc I'm a poorfag from Kentucky

[Anonymous No.3159040]

>>3157339
no crap, if he is painting like that he's been pro for a few years.

[Anonymous No.3159055]

>>3159019
>10$ an hour is actually decent

You Muto and are the biggest class ducks oml

[Anonymous No.3159079]

>>3159019
>$10 an hour
>well above minimum wage
THE ABSOLUTE FUCKING STATE OF AMERICAN ECONOMY

[Anonymous No.3159084]

>>3156840
of course this comment is fucking 2 days old baka. If you come back, post work? I also use brush markers and I just started trying out watercolor and I'd like to see what point I should be at to get $200 for a waist up portrait with color. I have my own "small business" but I'm scraping by and it blows. Had to get an actual job to help keep me floating which really blows. But I'm only in my first year of doing it and I haven't even landed a gig with my target audience yet. But come March when I get my first convention, hopefully things will look up. Until then, though, I'd like to be getting side commission work or at least inching toward the point to making that kind of money.

For reference, my best commission so far has been $80 for 2 characters, full body, full color on 11 x 17 paper.

/blog. sorry. I'm just in a rut and it hurts.

[Anonymous No.3159090]

>>3159084
>my target audience
Which is?

[Anonymous No.3159093]

>>3159090
I wanna be a comic book artist. Not as a meme or anything, I genuinely want to do it. I want to work for Udon or IDW or some shit. I know I'm not Marvel or DC tier but I wanna do something in the industry. My ultimate goal as an artist is to have my own comic book series finished, written and illustrated by me. The story I'm focusing on right now would probably work better as a manga so I might roll with that. Not a huge deal.

But then comes the meme part, because right now my target audience has to be weebs and convention goers. Ultimately it will likely be that anyways if I "make it" so I may as well get used to it. The scene is humongous near where I live, but it's really feast or famine out here. The conventions are few and far between but when they get here they're huge, but when there's nothing, I have to resort to these backwater redneck tier shitshows. I've done a tractor-based event, a craft fair, and a local carnival just because it was all I had available. And I made less than $200 for all of it all together. Sorry if I'm rambling and talking about irrelevant shit, I've also been awake for about 36 hours.

[Anonymous No.3159109]

>>3155235
if you can make art like the one on the left, then YES, you are undercharging. 70 bucks... wtf.

average hourly wage of a web designer is around $22 an hour.

[Anonymous No.3159164]

>>3159093
You sound determined breh, good luck. And get some sleep for fuck's sake.

[Anonymous No.3159224]

>>3155235
How long does a portrait take you? $70 for something that takes 8hrs is $8.75/hr. So really you're better off flipping burgers.

[Anonymous No.3159266]

>>3159224
burger flipping is min wage, plus you don't get to practice while you make money

[Anonymous No.3159271]

>>3159266
I'm saying don't work for minimum wage…