how much do artists rely on reference?

[Anonymous No.3137096]

ever since i saw kjg i just assumed that's what most artists do - drawing directly from imagination.

but recently i've gotten more of the impression that the large majority of painters will use photos.

like pic related - how likely do you think it is he came up with this all in his head? the general idea, maybe, but supplemented with reference for the details, right?

[Anonymous No.3137102]

>>3137096
i think you're right, but to be honest that one does look quite a lot like it was done mainly from imagination, at the drawing stage anyway

[Anonymous No.3137109]

>>3137096
100%. Imagination comes from putting together memories which come from references. The more and better you remember things, the less you have to use your time looking. The skill level of that city tells me that guy has drawn a lot of cities before and he's likely remembered specific things like how windows are, the stairs, color of lights, etc. Obviously if he doesn't remember something, he can always look at a ref, but you'll never know how much that is because yo don't know what's in his head either. You can only see what he's showing and at the end of the day, that's all that matters anyways. Refs or not, always strive to make your work the best it can be.

[Anonymous No.3137110]

>>3137109
>Refs or not, always strive to make your work the best it can be

I will become a concept artist by copying other people's concept.

[Anonymous No.3137155]

>>3137096
Depends on experience. It's obvious the artist here at least knows how cityscapes work, but may have used references here and there to get certain things right.

[Anonymous No.3137248]

It looks like the artist imagined a city reflecting onto water, but then turned the reflection into another layer of city.

[Anonymous No.3137295]

>>3137096
KJG has photographic memory, most artists in fact use very heavy reference. This is one of the first things you learn in art school.

[Anonymous No.3137308]

>>3137109
>>3137155
>>3137248
>>3137295
ok.

but how did they do this one?

[Anonymous No.3137315]

>>3137308
Same as any artists. References and imagination.

[Anonymous No.3137327]

>>3137315
you realise he painted that on a wall, right? If he had ref, it had to be behind him.

[Anonymous No.3137335]

>>3137327
What are you trying to say, anon? That he's a filthy cheater for using references? It's the most obvious thing that the old masters especially used references, from memory, from their studies, from whatever they needed to finish their work. What do you think he did? Just poof it out of thin air?

[Anonymous No.3137343]

>>3137327
so do you assume i painted this with... my imagination? black magic? what?

Believe it or not, artists can attain the skill of retaining pose information between looking at a subject, turning, and looking at a wall. you dont HAVE to have the brush in your hands at all times, for instance, for a self portrait like this. You can pose your hand, pick up the pencil, remember what you were looking at, and draw it on the canvas. One line at a time.

It's not black magic that artists could compose these giant murals with multiple figures. It just took a long ass time. Do one self portrait like the one I did and you'll have a greater appreciation for how much must've gone into a painting like The School of Athens. The figures were all done almost completely observational from references over many months.

[Anonymous No.3137346]

>>3137335
>What are you trying to say, anon? That he's a filthy cheater for using references?
No.

For me using reference is drawing while directly looking at the subject. I though that's what's everyone's definition of using reference means.

I think raphael just had a very huge visual library and manage to draw all of it without looking at a reference.

[Anonymous No.3137349]

>>3137343
ok what about these?

also, nice hands.
Would crush rocks with it/10

[Anonymous No.3137350]

>>3137349
asking white people to explain their art before the renaissance is low, even for you 4chan

[Anonymous No.3137352]

>>3137350
what the fuck does this post even mean?

[Anonymous No.3137354]

>>3137327
He probably made a smaller study/sketch on a grid with models and references (one of the figures is leonardo if I remember) and translated it onto the wall

[Anonymous No.3137389]

>>3137346
what? you don't need to be looking directly at your refrence to use it, you just take quick glances at it while working and remember the way things are

[Anonymous No.3137404]

https://archive.org/details/TheTrainingOfTheMemoryInArtAndTheEducationOfTheArtist

Memory Drawing: Perceptual Training and Recall
ISBN-13: 978-0980045444

[Anonymous No.3137408]

>>3137404
Is this book shit? I'm barely a few pages in and the history part is already killing my suspension of disbelief. It's making it sound like they never connected the idea of drawing from observation with drawing from memory when artists obviously drew from imagination. Hopefully it gets better as I read on.

[Anonymous No.3137411]

>>3137408
No I'm pretty sure they knew, considering the authors teachers emphasized drawing and painting imaginative figures/scenes.

[Anonymous No.3137873]

>>3137349
"I got the biggest nuts in this bitch, the fuck you gon do bout it?!"