Why professionals lie about talent? #PART 2

[Anonymous No.3086528]

Thread 1: >>3078520

As the first thread had a good discussion going, besides the always present shitposters, I thought it would be cool to continue it here.
Anyway, I was wondering that it's possible that a good part of the pros actually don't know they're talented because they're inserted in environments full os successful people.

[Anonymous No.3086529]

>>3086528
The answer is pretty simple. Regardless of how talent you are, you still have to work REALLY HARD to get good. The difference between someone who is talented and someone who isn't, is that the hard work actually pays off. So that's why when you ask someone talented how they got good they'll simply say "I worked hard".

[Anonymous No.3086544]

>>3086528
talent + hardwork + social capital + marketing + good financial management/business sense = someone who can "make" it.

[Anonymous No.3086549]

>>3086528
Talent is nothing but intelligence.

Don't kid yourself, if you can't do art right without having done it since childhood, you can't do anything right.

[Anonymous No.3086553]

>>3086528
Talent only multiplies effort.

[Anonymous No.3086557]

>>3086549
This.

Ever wonder why some people never get better despite practice?

[Anonymous No.3086573]

It seems OP has never read loomis.

[Anonymous No.3086592]

>>3086557
Never heard of a person like that. It would be kind of like a morbidly obese person claiming they can't lose weight despite exercising and eating healthy. It's just not a thing other than in some super rare medical cases. 99.9% of the time, the problem lies with what that person deems "practice".

[Anonymous No.3086595]

>>3086592
>Never heard of a person like that.
Are you serious? There are plenty of people like that; open your eyes.

[Anonymous No.3086598]

>>3086592

Nah, there is plenty of artists who reached a "level" and stopped there, even if said level is professional. Even so, there is an immeasurable amount of who tried and never reached a higher level, you can see those everywhere.

The thing is you want to believe they all failed because they didn't work hard enough, which not always is true. People fail.

[Anonymous No.3086602]

>>3086598
Well obviously you can't just endlessly progress and obviously plenty of people will never reach a high level, but I was replying to a guy who said some people never get better at all, despite practice. Which to me seems rather implausible unless said person suffers from serious mental deficiencies.

[Anonymous No.3086604]

>>3086595
I've seen plenty of autistic DA kids who keep drawing their same OCs and never get better. I honestly however have never heard of someone who has seriously practiced the fundamentals for at least 2 years and was still just as bad as when they started.

[Anonymous No.3086611]

>>3086602
Hmm.. I get and in this case I agree. No progress at all is impossible if the person don't have any kind of disability.

[Anonymous No.3086618]

>>3086602
>Well obviously you can't just endlessly progress and obviously plenty of people will never reach a high level
Well there you go, I think the thread's over.

[Anonymous No.3086624]

>>3086592
who is this faggot going around making shitty analogies in every fucking thread? Fuck off already.

>>3086602
More people have mental deficiencies than you'd think.

[Anonymous No.3086641]

I read through the last thread. Worrying and theorizing about the role talent plays in art is a long winded way to simply say you don't love the process. You want the results but you don't give jack shit for the journey. If you did, you would love to create. In fact, you would feel an impulsive need to. You want an easy out to give up. You want attention. Get it some other way because no one will love what you do, drawing painting whatever, before you do.

[Anonymous No.3086645]

>>3086641
all buzzwords and no argument.

[Anonymous No.3086660]

The thread is so pathetic. Go and read a book op.

[Anonymous No.3086661]

>>3086660
>this faggot again

you just can't help yourself can you?

[Anonymous No.3086667]

>>3086645
Art is supposed to be an outlet for your imagination, not drudgery and whining about genetics or fate. Who fucking cares if anyone is better than you are.. I'm happy there are people out there to look up to and get inspired by. If you have the ghost in you then you'll have to try and actualize your imagination using some kind of way to do that. Entertaining the alternative is poison and I'm not interested in watching a fucking telethon about how it's like a cosmic injustice to be doomed as a hack because such and such a person was rending at four years old, etc

[Anonymous No.3086673]

>>3086667
OP wasn't even doing that you dunce.

[Anonymous No.3086675]

>>3086661
You're just as satisfied with your preconceived notion of talent as hitler is with his idea of jews..

[Anonymous No.3086681]

>>3086549
here and I agree with
>>3086641
You'll never know if you're smart enough unless you make it, so just keep trying, you dumbo. Even the smartest keed has periods of stagnation; the funk gets everyone, don't forget.

[Anonymous No.3086682]

>>3086528
I didn't get what you meant earlier but this is entirely possible. They see everyone around them doing it so it just becomes an everyday thing to them, and tell everyone else they can as a result.

>>3086675
>breaking out hitler already

Just shows how bad you want this thread to fail for daring to go against the narrative you agree with. Typical overly defensive tripe.

[Anonymous No.3086690]

>>3086618
That's never the argument though. I think we can all agree that most people won't ever reach KJG levels no matter how hard they try, you and me included, but at the same time to pretend most people can't get good at all is just equally stupid. An average person can aquire a fairly competent skill level.

[Anonymous No.3086697]

>>3086641
Not OP but that's not true. I love the process more than the finished product. I LOVE the process. Sketching, construction, finding the overall block-in is what I enjoy the most, and I couldn't care less about rendering things till they're shiny - the "end product".

In fact I don't even like fully rendered pieces that much, I enjoy lineart and flats much more if there's skill underneath. But at the same time I know that sketches don't travel very far to your audience, so I have to make "finished products" and I'm simply not very good at it. I fail to improve at it and the undertaking feels more and more beyond my league. The more I try doing it, the more I feel exhausted. If I spend more than 2 hours on something it starts to really feel like drudgery. But this is what I HAVE to do. Maybe I should try to be a storyboard artist or something

[Anonymous No.3086701]

>>3086690
I lift weights. I'm not the strongest in the world or in a position to commodify my training or physique. I doubt I'll be a legend with it and there are many people out there who put me to shame. That's ok because I enjoy it and working out has been fantastic for my life in general. If I didn't enjoy it I would quit and do something else.

[Anonymous No.3086703]

>>3086690
>to pretend most people can't get good at all is just equally stupid.
Depends on what 'good' means. Good in terms of intermediate? Absolutely yes, you can get there with just practice. Good as in, you make art for a living? Not so much. In fact you not only need talent but also other skills on top of that.

[Anonymous No.3086708]

>>3086598
Have those people actually tried to reach a higher level though or are they just comfortable where they are?
if thats their goal then you can't call that a failure.

and even if you fail, what stops you from trying again? trying different ways?
The only way to actually fail would be if you actually tried EVERYTHING, which , due to the nature of art is impossible

>>3086703
You don't need to be good to make art for a living, and yes anyone can achieve really good (not KJG but just really good) proficiency with practice and proper education.

[Anonymous No.3086710]

>>3086708
>You don't need to be good to make art for a living
Yeah you just need to draw porn or pander to snowflakes.

[Anonymous No.3086727]

>>3086710
There are a lot of ways to make money off of art, some that already exist and some that don't yet, but all of them will take hard work in some way, which won't work for the snowflakes in this thread since they're so scared of failure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Xd4cFtU2U
this video talks about this pretty well

[Anonymous No.3086745]

>>3086727
That was a good podcast. Maybe I'm really getting too hard into the mindset that my art should be good enough to sell on its own, while there are other venues.

[Anonymous No.3086804]

Given enough time one will always reach the point where he's satisfied with his art. People stagnating simply have bad taste.

[Anonymous No.3086807]

Someone on /ic/ once told me I was talented, so it must be true.

[Anonymous No.3086812]

>>3086592
Practices fighting games for years, has local competition and hires a coach, still is trash, what's going on here? Maybe this person just sucks at fighting games. Is this really any controversy.

[Anonymous No.3086846]

>>3086745
>>3086727
On the other hand you dig a tiny little bit deeper and you discover that this guy has a whole website dedicated to selling "advice" to desperate people. Oh the irony of 3 courses on "how to make money in illustration" priced 20$ each. How am I supposed to trust pros' advice if there's always a fucking honeypot? Is there ONE person who goes on the topic of an art career that doesn't have a conflict of interest?

[Anonymous No.3086864]

Some talent gives you a head start, some talent let's you reach new heights but has you working as hard as everyone else, some talent multiplies the gains you make from the effort you put in but doesn't do much in letting you stand out in a niche, some talent gives you a feel for where to steer your art to make up for your weaknesses

Are you guys seriously trying to draw the lines here

[Anonymous No.3086878]

>>3086812
And that person is just as bad at fighting games as the day he played for the first time? Meaning his past self would have a 50% chance of beating his present self after training for years with a coach? I'm sorry, but I just find that really hard to believe.

[Anonymous No.3086881]

>>3086846
How are people like you any better to take advice from though? You are frustrated and depressed, your conflict of interest is that you want other people to join you as we all know, misery loves company.

[Anonymous No.3086896]

It seems nobody seems to be posting their work.

There's 5-6 days diference between these two paintings, and I've tried to draw at least one digital painting daily since then.

[Anonymous No.3086916]

>>3086846
Will is a really upfront guy about money though and is one of the few artists who is willing to talk openly about it.
His teaching site and him teaching at an university are both ways he found to use his skills to make money, which is the lesson that he's trying to give in the video. He's not even that good by /ic/ standards but still makes a good living because he's willing to do things like teaching and kickstarters and attending cons (his first comic con was a complete disaster but he kept going and improved his sales pitch and made a lot of money off of that too).
>>3086812
This would never happen unless the kid is retarded and the coach completely incompetent

[Anonymous No.3086926]

>>3086896
>It seems nobody seems to be posting their work.
Because nobody outside of the /beg/ and co generals actually draw.

[Anonymous No.3087099]

>>3086878
>>3086916
Yup he's still in the lowest rank in online play. what now? It's his dream to go ""pro"" after all.

[Anonymous No.3087114]

>>3087099
you do realize the guys that now make money off comenting evo and working with the companies as game designers weren't the best, right?

t. fgg nigger.

[Anonymous No.3087121]

>>3086896

Nice you're painting daily! Keep it up and take advantage of that motivation.

I'm the OP and I posted my work in the last thread when someone asked for it, the anon vanished after that. lol


Anyway, lots of good points being made...

>>3086846

The video is good anyway, besides being something we already discussed about.
Also, I think everyone who does tutorials or youtube videos are expecting a return for their effort. That's totally fine, but the market is saturated with online courses and tutorials because there is so much more people trying to jump in this wagon than it has space for.

[Anonymous No.3087156]

>>3087121
>The video is good anyway
If you talk to someone about things he doesn't know jack shit about, you can make any argument sound convincing. But I take conflict of interest as a red flag, and every single person who decided to make a podcast on how yes, even YOU can make money with art is, at the same time, conveniently selling art instruction on the side.

[Anonymous No.3087167]

>>3087156

It's biased, but is a good talk. There is no way you'll find something on that subject without the person doin the talk being biased. At least he show some examples and talks about monetizing your art and to look where you might be need if you don't build your own product.

[Anonymous No.3087177]

>>3087156
>b-but muh Knorr stock pots

Wanting more money isn't a conflict of interest.

[Anonymous No.3087191]

>>3087099
who are you even talking about, that situation is literally impossible unless the guy is actually retarded AND his coach is garbage.
You can get to medium/high ranks in literally any fighting game with just understanding of fundamentals and knowledge of your character, if that guy didn't get that from years of playing with a coach then he needs a new coach

[Anonymous No.3087197]

>>3087156
>conflict of interest
it's not though, its literally the opposite as it proves his point, as he himself isn't even that talented in art. You seem really eager to attack his character as you can't refute any of his points

[Anonymous No.3087222]

>>3086549
>Talent is nothing but intelligence.
Came to post this. But I'm sure there's also a physical aspect to hand-eye coordination that contributes. Either way, the folks who give this sort of advice are speaking from the expectation of their own experience.

>>3086602
>Which to me seems rather implausible unless said person suffers from serious mental deficiencies.
I graduated from a decent art school alongside a few people who's work looked like they never received a single day of formal training. Your brains would explode if I linked their portfolios and told you the debt they took on.

Also, get a job in customer service and you'll soon learn that serious mental deficiencies describes broad swaths of the population.

[Anonymous No.3087328]

This is my art in 2013 and 2017. You can see some improvement in colouring + shading, but only about 15%-20% improvement in drawing poses (0% improvement if rushing) when drawing from a photoreference (but I never want to draw from photos in actual art which leads to a cycle of self destruction) which is effectively insignificant/still /beg/ tier.

And I draw like a retard whenever I need to rush, resulting in a lot of retarded work.

Still this is my work from when I was like six: http://i.imgur.com/5UZzohp.png

Although my art is still shit I can say that the majority of any improvement I make I owe to /ic/.

[Anonymous No.3087353]

>>3087222
Talent is nothing but intelligence? I've meet a lot of artists who were really good at drawing but dumb as fuck otherwise.

[Anonymous No.3087408]

>Oh, I was born to fail. Thank God, I couldn't live with myself if it were actually my fault I'm such a failure.

[Anonymous No.3087410]

>>3086807
>tfw I think this was me

[Anonymous No.3087413]

>>3087408
That's not such a bad mindset desu. But like seriously what kind of fucked up shit is being fated to fail from birth? That's some crazy bullshit with talent.

[Anonymous No.3087519]

>>3086557
>Ever wonder why some people never get better despite practice?
They lie about how much they practiced to feel better about not even trying.

[Anonymous No.3087571]

>>3087353
My dad is dumb as shit anywhere outside of automotive repair, where he is a fucking genius.

It's like some people pour all of their processing power into one thing. It's uncanny but it happens.