Drawing from imagination is a waste of time

[Anonymous No.2997006]

In the age of google images, you can find anything you want with just a click, drawing from imagination is a complete waste of time.

Want to draw cool poses? Use reference
Want to draw cool outfits? Use reference
Want to draw a dick? Use reference

Now i'm not saying that you should copy a photo 1:1. Obviously if you're a weaboo or a westaboo you'd want to exaggerate the reference to fit your style.

Sycra makes an excellent tutorial on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30BOsR_tzYA

What happens when you draw from imagination is that you end up like this faggot here who hasn't made any progress in the last 3 years: https://xnosebro.tumblr.com/
>b-but the old masters drew from imagination

The old masters drew from imagination out of necessity because they didn't have access to reference images the same way we do

>b-but KJG draws from imagination and look how good he is

KJG has photographic memory. In his case, whether he drew from imagination or reference wouldn't make a difference. Most of you faggots don't have photographic memory and when you avoid using reference the quality of your work simply deteriorates. Being able to draw the same animu head in 3 different positions isn't impressive(see nosebro)

TLDR: Imagination is a meme, use reference.

[Anonymous No.2997014]

>The old masters drew from imagination
Where'd you get that idea from? I'm pretty sure most of them had models.

[Anonymous No.2997017]

Then why draw? why not just take a picture or take one from google

[Anonymous No.2997020]

All youre doing is making an inferior version of something that already exists in real life

>>2997017

Exactly, why even draw?

[Anonymous No.2997023]

>>2997017
Because you're still stylizing the drawing and adding your own creative input. Just because I'm referencing a pose doesn't mean I won't change it up so I can add my own story to it, retard.

[Anonymous No.2997026]

>>2997014
They often did draw from imagination, but usually for smaller sketches or preliminary work like planning compositions. Though it's hard to come up with any generalizations on "old masters" since the term covers so many artists with different approaches and methods over several centuries.

[Anonymous No.2997027]

>>2997006
I don't think having a photographic memory is the same as 'oh Imma just open the Gallery and open "/upskirts/0078.jpg" '

[Anonymous No.2997028]

bad bait, drawing from imagination takes a strong visual library and a vivid way of thinking about ideas. just because you have neither, doesn't mean that drawing from imagination is a meme. you fucking dumbass.

[Anonymous No.2997030]

>>2997020
How does stylizing a photo make it inferior you retard?

[Anonymous No.2997034]

>>2997023

idiot faggot

[Anonymous No.2997038]

>>2997030
faggot ass cunt

[Anonymous No.2997040]

>>2997028
Post your vivid imagination work. Come on, let's see those fucking stick figures.

[Anonymous No.2997041]

>>2997034
brain dead moron. you just lack an artistic mind set. stop drawing a kys if you think that people cant create things they want and it still be good.

[Anonymous No.2997045]

>>2997040
>im an angry autist with a vendetta against people with imaginations

[Anonymous No.2997046]

>>2997028
stupid gay nigger

[Anonymous No.2997047]

>>2997041

shut up you giant faggot, go trace over a picture of corn or something

[Anonymous No.2997050]

>>2997046
> wahh wahh wahh, racist slur im a cock sucker.

thats (you) anon.

[Anonymous No.2997051]

>>2997006
>bullying nosebro
i approve

[Anonymous No.2997055]

>>2997047
> look at me goys i can whine like a bitch and throw shitty insults at people, did i make it?

[Anonymous No.2997056]

>>2997050

cuck

[Anonymous No.2997059]

>>2997055


Excuse me? Back the fuck off retard or ill fucking kill your mom

[Anonymous No.2997062]

>>2997056
>insert any buzzword. I. am. a. robot. bzzz cuck cuck c-cu-cuck, overload. please. jizz. on. me.

[Anonymous No.2997065]

>>2997059
>mom jokes.... i have sever anger problems and can't handle different opinions.

[Anonymous No.2997067]

>>2997045
>>2997047
I have pretty high technical skills, I don't need imagination when I can literally just use a photo...

[Anonymous No.2997070]

>>2997067
i also have a printer. there relatively cheap.and copy stores are pretty cheap aswell... whats your point.

on another note, thats not very good. its alright, but the dunning-Kruger is strong in you. like a black dick.

[Anonymous No.2997074]

Wow just found out there are a lot of frauds that browse here, i honestly thought you guys were better than this.
>muh copycat skills

[Anonymous No.2997075]

>>2997070
I'm objectively better than the majority of /ic/.

[Anonymous No.2997081]

>>2997075
put that on your resumé

[Anonymous No.2997082]

>>2997075
the billy madison syndrome. im better than a bunch of not great artists.

does it make you feel better? why are you even here?

[Anonymous No.2997085]

>>2997065

BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP

[Anonymous No.2997091]

>>2997040
Not him. Did this without references.

[Anonymous No.2997094]

>>2997040
This one is with reference.

[Anonymous No.2997096]

>>2997094
Example of reference used for that one.

[Anonymous No.2997098]

>>2997006
this is a pretty pointless discussion imo. you'll always need refs to fill in the blanks, but for comics/animation you want to know a fair bit even without refs because you need a certain consistency to your drawings.

for example: you think you can get by without knowing all the proportions of the human body by heart? if you only draw a few images at a time, sure you can.
but if you're drawing a comic/animating, it will become apparent how much you don't fully grasp. see kronprinz, algenpfleger.
that is not to say that you can ever fully abandon refs. but you want to have a certain amount of knowledge in your head so you can wing a good part of your drawings even without them.

now if you'll excuse me. this thread beyond fucking shit. goodbye.

[Anonymous No.2997105]

>>2997098
Algenpfleger has an excellent visual library you fuck Tard, why would you put him in the same category as Kron

[Anonymous No.2997109]

>>2997094

[Anonymous No.2997110]

>>2997006
D:

[Anonymous No.2997117]

>>2997105
go read his comic.

[Anonymous No.2997119]

>>2997109
Yeah, I'm shit at a lot of things. Used to be worse though.

[Anonymous No.2997120]

Drawing from imagination is a way of thinking, if you only use reference or you only draw from imagination you're not going to be well rounded as an artist.

[Anonymous No.2997128]

>>2997094
omg! FZD girl! hey! hope you're doing well.

[Anonymous No.2997138]

Yes, if only Jon Klassen used photo reference for this illustration instead of drawing from imagination.

[Anonymous No.2997139]

>>2997006
>>2997023

I still don't get how /ic/ doesn't understand most professional artist use some form of reference along with their own knowledge of art to create their work, and that pure imagination is only through a select few. No wonder this board is filled with misery and retards most you all are doing it wrong

[Anonymous No.2997152]

>>2997094
>>2997109

can someone give me the quick rundown on this guy?

[Anonymous No.2997159]

>>2997098

>this is a pretty pointless discussion

Yes. Imagination drawing is just breaking the rules of reality that you've learned to create your art.

Mixing a car engine with a mantis that breathes bubbles with tiny cities in them. Each of them exist in real life. How you break the rules is what matters.

If a person rely purely on his "imagination" it just means he has a really good memory. If you don't have a good memory. Just fucking use ref.

[Anonymous No.2997163]

>>2997139
Yeah this. You have to work hard to find a pro that doesn't uses references.

If what you draw doesn't require you to check something for reference, it's probably a worthless idea to begin with.

My reference monitor is almost as important as my tablet.

[Anonymous No.2997169]

>>2997163

Ironically Miles draws almost exclusively without reference, as did he back when he was doing digital painting aswell

[Anonymous No.2997170]

>>2997163

[Anonymous No.2997181]

>>2997128
Thanks, wish you a wonderful weekend :)

[Anonymous No.2997199]

>>2997181
thanks! how is work coming along?

[Anonymous No.2997218]

>>2997094
Reference of WHAT???

[Anonymous No.2997226]

>>2997199
Got an in-person interview next Wednesday for a big project. I'm nervous!

Video game companies still don't want me though.

You got some drawing time carved out?

>>2997218
<<

[Anonymous No.2997229]

>>2997226
yeah, a little bit. been lazy cause i keep talking to a crush lmao
your illustrations are nice, i think you made some insane progress for the couple years u did school for. gluck with the interview bb

[Anonymous No.2997240]

>>2997006
>Proko
>Sycra
>nosebro
>KJG has photographic memory
can there be more spicy maymay please?

[Anonymous No.2997577]

why do you dumb niggers fall for the same bait thread every day

[Anonymous No.2997584]

>>2997006
>I can't do it so it's a waste of time

kys.

[Anonymous No.2997613]

>>2997577
why are you here?
>waste of dubs

[Anonymous No.2997614]

>>2997613
to laugh at you in particular, retard

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.2997623]

>>2997614
>Im laughing at you in particular for doing the exact same thing im doing, retard
>AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.2997668]

>>2997006
People are idiots.

Anyone can draw from imagination. Have you seen DA or tumblr? Or even here in /beg/ threads? There are always shitters posting their dumb cartoon characters asking for critique. They're all from imagination but were they any good? Fuck no. See pic related.

A lot of you can't seem to understand for whatever reason how much referencing is required to get good. Not only do you have to copy from reference, you also have to study the shit out of it. Look at it up close and analyze what's going on there.

What do you think all of this practice is for? It's not just imagination work. It's also drawing from life, drawing realistically. If you want to make appealing art, it also has to be convincing. It needs to have some realism in there or else is going to look too abstract/ugly for anyone to get. Unless you're going for shitty impressionistic work, which I know most of you are not. Most of you want to be concept artists or draw comics or anime.

If all you want to do is draw anime, you're still going to use anime references. If you don't, you will end up like nosebro. His mindset is that he doesn't need to use reference. So he only practices drawing the same ugly imagination characters over and over. They never improve because he doesn't know what improvement would even look like without a reference.

Seriously, don't fall for the references are bad meme. There are way too many of you here in /ic/ that it's just sad to see because it's immediately obvious that you're ngmi.

[Anonymous No.2997674]

>>2997067
>>2997075
Don't fall for it

[Anonymous No.2997692]

>>2997006
gr8b8m8

[NoseBro No.2997697]

>>2997006
>nosebro
is this your new way of making hate threads? I'm glad to see some idiots put themselves in the line of fire though. I'd like to put my defense in saying itll take more time but that itll be worth it in the longrun. Finally to compare the actual time spent drawing per day.

By the way photographic memory isn't a thing.

>2997075>>2997668
>2997668
post work

[Anonymous No.2997709]

>>2997697
>photographic memory isn't a thing

Are you retarded? There are many documented cases of photographic memory.

Also why did you post that painting? Is that supposed to be good?

and third people would hate you whether I mention you in my threads or not.

Here is my work. The thing is nosebro is that i'll always will be better than you because i'm not an idiot that refuses to learn from reference.

[NoseBro No.2997715]

>>2997709
whats your blog?

[NoseBro No.2997722]

>>2997709
https://twitter.com/SingartiBlackwd?lang=en
http://silverst.deviantart.com/

you've been drawing 9 years assuming its you. Give me another 6 see how i fare.

[Anonymous No.2997729]

>>2997722
No, I've been drawing my whole life but you can't really count that. I didn't get serious about art until 2014 so in actuality I've been drawing for 3 years

Also, considering the fact that you've made no progress in the last 3 years, i'm not expecting much.

[Anonymous No.2997734]

>>2997006
Drawing from imagination doesn't refer to never using references, you idiot. In fact, most drawings from imagination are done with references.

[NoseBro No.2997736]

>>2997729
>b-but you can't count that
ok then. I never started drawing seriously then. Want to compare ages as a metric instead ?because you've got 5 to 7 years over me in that end too.

[Anonymous No.2997738]

>>2997734
If you are drawing from imagination, you are not using reference you stupid fucking turd. That's literally what the definition of drawing from imagination is. Obviously, you'll need to do studies here and there to build your visual library but if you're using reference for a piece then it isn't imagination drawing, it's creative referencing.

[Anonymous No.2997743]

>>2997736
I'm not sure if you're trolling or just really stupid. If someone is 20 and they say they've been drawing their entire lives(which consists of doodling on random scraps of paper twice a year) you'd count that as 20 years of drawing?

Using age as a metric is stupid too because different people start drawing at different ages.

When I say "serious" I don't mean 16 hours a day like a feng zhu meme. I mean drawing consistently for the most part. As in drawing everyday whether it's an hour or 4 hours.

[Anonymous No.2997745]

>>2997697
Are you saying that the best you can do in 3 years?
>photographic memory isn't a thing
Ofc, for someone that don't use ref and only draw from imagination like you, your visual library alone is shit tier anyway, photographic memory is too high for you bud.

[NoseBro No.2997747]

>>2997743
>not sure if youre trolling
from a guy who made a thread meant to incite discord

whats your fineline for being serious? Whats your preferred metric? Is it total amount of hours?

in my eyes youve been drawn your fetish for years for 9 years from what i see on your DA. Or did you buy a tablet before you were even "serious"

[NoseBro No.2997748]

>>2997745
is it photographic memory if you remember what the people in your life look like 10 years after the fact?

[Anonymous No.2997751]

>>2997747
>whats your fineline for being serious? Whats your preferred metric? Is it total amount of hours?

Can you not read? I already answered your question.

>When I say "serious" I don't mean 16 hours a day like a feng zhu meme. I mean drawing consistently for the most part. As in drawing everyday whether it's an hour or 4 hours.

[Anonymous No.2997752]

Yeah nope. Drawing from imagination is the only true way to draw.

[NoseBro No.2997753]

>>2997751
so wheres the cut off? 1 hour exactly?

>>2997745
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2006/04/kaavya_syndrome.html

If anyone could remember a book after looking at it seconds at a time that'd be photographic memory. Nobody can achieve this feat.

[Anonymous No.2997757]

So if you can find anything on google images shouldn't you be making the argument that drawing from imagination is the only way to go since drawing life means nothing? Whatever the case you seem "special"

[Anonymous No.2997758]

>>2997757
No retard. Using reference doesn't mean you're copying a picture 1:1. Learn how to read.
>>2997753
I'm not sure why you're so caught up with the hours. Obviously, I'd imagine someone who's serious about their craft would devote at least an hour a day. The important thing here is that you're practicing consistently. You can learn a lot more in 30 min of concentrated practice than 4 hours of mindless doodles(like you've been doing).

[NoseBro No.2997762]

>>2997758
so youre saying im better than you were when you were actively trying since i havent started yet?

The premise being

>youve been serious for 4 years
>2 years ago you were absolutely trash
>i havent started yet because im doodling and not trying

[Anonymous No.2997765]

>>2997697
I like how you're so proud of not using reference when you're obviously copying Akirel's painting here. Even then, you're still struggling. Lack of referencing, lack of study will do that.

>By the way photographic memory isn't a thing.
Exactly. So why do you expect drawing without a reference to work out so well for you? Why does anybody?

It's not a hate thread per say, but you just keep making yourself the perfect example of the wrong way to learn.

[Anonymous No.2997767]

>>2997765
You're trying though. It's just that your method is retarded. The same way sycra tried improving his style with his ridiculous pointy chins period and got worse as a result. You've mentioned that you draw everyday for an hour. That's being consistent.

In either case, the point is that you're trash. What matters at the end of the day is that you're good or not that that you've drawn for 1065 hours or 4506 hours. Nobody gives a shit about that.

[Anonymous No.2997768]

>>2997767
and not*

[Anonymous No.2997770]

>>2997006

You need to use reference to build a visual library but drawing from imagination is a separate skill set from drawing from life and reference although they both have overlap. Life drawing alone will NOT teach you how to use reference to things you invent out of your imagination.

[Anonymous No.2997771]

>>2997006
Actually the old masters used real people modeling for them.

Illustrators from the last century took their own reference photos (or had photographer friends / associates taking those photos for them)

Using reference abso-fucking-lutely is nothing new and it's something artists have always relied on. It's just much easier to get them now than it ever was.

I'd still prefer using real life models over photos from the internet, though, if I had an endless supply of money to hire them or friends willing to stand nude in front of me

[NoseBro No.2997772]

>>2997765
ive seen akirels painting only once, does that mean i have photographic memory?

[NoseBro No.2997773]

>>2997765
i see it as all the information being self contained within my years of living as a human. We instinctively know if something feels off, hence, with time we can create a whole universe from nothing.

[Anonymous No.2997774]

>>2997738
No it's not you fucking retard. You can draw a completely imaginative composition, figure, landscape, creature, whatever and then reference real life things to enhance the believability in detail. Most people work like that.

[Anonymous No.2997776]

>>2997772
>does that mean i have photographic memory?
No, you idiot. That's why it's shit and that's why you need a reference.

>photographic memory isn't real guys
>but I think I can remember everything I've ever seen since I was born
k

[Anonymous No.2997777]

>>2997771
>Not having a gf to model for him

[Anonymous No.2997778]

>>2997777
well yeah, insert sadfrogfacejpg and other self-pity faggotry

[NoseBro No.2997780]

>>2997776
how do you define photographic memory?

[Anonymous No.2997781]

>>2997774
Yeah, that's called creative reference. Since you clearly are stupid as fuck, allow me to educate you.

Copying= reproducing the same image exactly without enough changes to make it your own
Referencing= taking parts of an image and adding it to your own personal work
imagination= not looking at anything, no reference other than the visual library you already built.

The vast majority of professionals artists use reference and there is nothing wrong with it. It only becomes a problem when you copy things that you don't belong to you exactly and take credit for it.

[Anonymous No.2997783]

>>2997781
I'd also add that copying a photo is fine, at least in my books, as long as you took that photo yourself.

I do it sometimes myself if I'm feeling creatively bankrupt but don't want to steal from others. It's just an art form that's a mixture of photography and painting then. (it's called photorealism)

[Anonymous No.2997784]

>nosebro
what the fuck is this shit? Is /ic/ now forum for underage discord retards and their friends?

[Nosesister No.2997787]

>>2997784
Leave my bf alone.

[Anonymous No.2997867]

>>2997722
>>2997697
your main problem is just that you're really sloppy. you can't rely on time to automatically make you better.
your figures almost consistently have bad posture. a hunched back and a bad neck as well as stiff shoulders. i doubt that is intended. they're always incomplete and floaty too.
and you never seem to correct this because you don't seem to care enough to challenge yourself beyond what you know.

in order to draw from imagination, you need to have a sense for what is "correct" or not. and you only get that sense by studying or looking at refs. you CANT expect to know that by nature.

the same applies to your faces. you knowledge of faces just covers the bare minimum at best. and for being called nosebro, you have no understanding of noses whatsoever.
here as well you're drawing based on that incomplete knowledge. you're doing it over and over again without adding new information through study or refs. you're not learning anything like this.

>>2997781
these kind of classifications are meaningless.
>imagination= not looking at anything, no reference other than the visual library you already built.
built on what exactly? built on reference. see what i mean? there is no point to this. being a purist won't get you anywhere.

[NoseBro No.2997877]

>>2997867
thats fair and all but post your work

[Anonymous No.2997891]

>>2997877
I've only been drawing for 2 years. Plus I don't really draw that much, since i'm busy with work and all. I mean, you're only a little bit better than me, i could pass you in a month. With that said, my advice is still sound.

[Anonymous No.2997897]

>>2997877
don't wanna.

>>2997891
:^)

[NoseBro No.2997901]

>>2997897
Then why should I listen to you?

[Anonymous No.2997905]

>>2997901
because it "sounds fair".
it's not my problem either way.

[NoseBro No.2997908]

>>2997905
Then stfu. There is no reason why I should take advice from someone who's worse than me.

[NoseBro No.2997913]

>>2997901
not me
>>2997891
a lot of my strength is just speed, i see you erased lines so i doubt you are any close. keep at it though.
>>2997897
not surprised :)

[NoseBro No.2997914]

>>2997908
not me

[Anonymous No.2997915]

>>2997908
>>2997913
>There is no reason why I should take advice from someone who's worse than me.
don't go assuming things anon.

[Anonymous No.2997917]

>>2997908
Wow, are you really this stupid. You value the critizism based on its content not because who said it.

[Anonymous No.2997918]

>>2997908
>People giving good advice
>HUR DUR SHUT UP I'M BETTER THEN YOU

[NoseBro No.2997925]

>>2997915
You're hiding your work because you suck. You know it and I know it.
>>2997917
Why would I take advice from a beginner who doesn't know what they are talking about. Are YOU stupid. This is why people on /ic/ don't make progress. It's because they follow stupid advice from people who don't know what they are talking about. You want solid advice, ask a pro.

[Anonymous No.2997927]

>>2997006
t. master of teaching at 22 years old

[Anonymous No.2997930]

>>2997030
>>2997023
You faggots don't even know how to stylize despite the alternative art style thread being the only one to produce content in this shitty board.
>>2997006
>photographic memory
This doesn't work the way you think it does, in fact nothing in your post works the way you think it does. If you just Frankenstein shit from google and "stylize" it, it'll show and you won't be getting any (you)s from art directors or wealthy patrons any time soon.

[Anonymous No.2997933]

a lot of people skip learning form because of the habit of copying pictures while studying. So they get better with color, texture, lighting and lots of advanced techniques but never really improve their form understanding. It's a double edged sword because at this point if you try to draw from your imagination you'll end up feeling like you're getting a lot worse. The truth is that you have a skewed perception of your own capabilities

HOWEVER form understanding isn't necessarily something important in order to achieve your goals, so just because you're not good at it doesn't mean you should feel bad about it

[Anonymous No.2997934]

>>2997925
no, i'm hiding my work because i want nothing to do with your petty ass. just look at your response to all this. you're pitiful.
again, you can assume that i'm better than you. and you did say my critique was fair, did you actually mean it?
or did all the salt overcome you afterwards?

[NoseBro No.2997937]

>>2997925
Not me but i agree on point 1.

[Anonymous No.2997939]

>>2997925
Advice and feedback can be good no matter the skill level of the person giving it. If you don't agree with the critique, because you are better and more well read on the subject, than why not attack the syllogism of the critique or advice, instead of acting like a moron?

[NoseBro No.2997941]

>>2997934
>i'm hiding

[Anonymous No.2997942]

>>2997917
You're really naive, aren't you?
Of course, it is how things should be, but in practice it's almost never like that at all. Experienced first-hand. Most people are very hypocritical in nature. People see things people do through the lens of their opinion about them, disregarding the actual content or how they themselves look in comparison.

[Anonymous No.2997945]

>>2997139
No! You cannot be good without autistically devoting to one thing!
ONE THING REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

/ic/ was fucked from the beggining. 4chan is nagging losers central, of course people here wouldn't stand for having to be a well rounded individual in order to find success, that's too zen and well-adjusted for this repugnant bog of cynicism.

[Anonymous No.2997969]

>>2997937
>>2997925
>>2997941
>>2997942
Alright then, genuine question: do i suck?
http://bmsketch.tumblr.com

>>2997867 here

[NoseBro No.2997973]

>>2997969
youre better than me by a margin of 27% more or less.

[NoseBro No.2997974]

>>2997973
actually more like 43%

[Anonymous No.2997977]

>>2997942
It's well understood that people don't do the rational thing. That's why "post your work" is a meme which stiffles any constructive discussions. That's not a good excuse though.

[Anonymous No.2997978]

>>2997973
>>2997974
>specific percentages
you're a petty retard.
now, so what about all the shit you said earlier? i deserve an apology.

[Anonymous No.2997979]

>>2997973
rekt

[NoseBro No.2997983]

>>2997978
47,5% last offer, what do you want me to apologize for?

[Anonymous No.2997992]

>>2997983
for saying i suck and that sucky people shouldn't give advice.

[Anonymous No.2997994]

>>2997992
Fuck you you suck
Give me your skill plzzzz

[Anonymous No.2997995]

no

[NoseBro No.2997996]

>>2997992
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1h4MuYjiH7e

[Anonymous No.2997998]

>>2997996
"Not only my surry, you're wanking all wrong"?

[Anonymous No.2998000]

>>2997996
autism

[Anonymous No.2998002]

>>2997996
kek

[Anonymous No.2998018]

>>2997969
Securely intermediate.
I might be better than you in some technical aspects, but artistically you're superior.
http://bmsketch.tumblr.com/image/88569399726

[NoseBro No.2998022]

>>2998018
thats 3 years ago, his new work is much better. post your work.

[Anonymous No.2998028]

>>2998022

[Akirel No.2998102]

>>2997697
This looks remarkably familiar..

[NoseBro No.2998108]

>>2998102
did you change it to copy mine or did i accidentally pull of a perfect copy? I did get the want to draw an elf after seeing yours, but this is way too close lmao. ill make sure to change the hairstyle. Even the background is the same color, but i think thats because we both played in the photoshop settings

[Akirel No.2998119]

>>2998108
I just painted from scratch with your painting as a ref.

The original one was a little bit different.

[NoseBro No.2998125]

>>2998119
im not sure if youre trolling or not, what did the last one you posted look like?

[Anonymous No.2998128]

>>2997050
ah lemme give you a piece of redpill

[Akirel No.2998129]

>>2998125
I'm not trolling.

[Anonymous No.2998131]

>>2997709
problem is that you aren't that much better than him either.
and considering your first post, I'd say you are also very very stupid.

[NoseBro No.2998132]

>>2998129
okay thats much more reasonable, but still pretty close. You made me panic for a moment there

[Anonymous No.2998134]

>>2997762
check mate the post

[Anonymous No.2998147]

>>2998134
I don't understand
what happened here.

[Anonymous No.2998174]

>>2998147
a tupid person (nosebro) schooled an even more stupid person.

[Anonymous No.2998187]

>>2997006
Proko would make a pretty cyoot girl

[NoseBro No.2998194]

>>2998147
its very poorly written, here's what i would edit it to:

According to the premise that:
>youve been drawing seriously for 4 of your 9+ years
>im better now than you were 2 years ago (he was really bad 2 years ago)
>i haven't started drawing yet because im not trying hard enough ( average roughly 45m-1h/day + doodles + no reference + muh style)

my art progression is actually faster than yours by your definition.

This falls apart if he gives a good definition of what he considers trying. But overall i never buy into the argument of "my DA is 6+ years old but i started for real 6 months ago xD"

[NoseBro No.2998199]

>>2998174
>even more stupid
says the guy who can't even use basic grammar and write "stupider" like a normal person.

[Anonymous No.2998207]

>>2998187
Slav grills are qts because of those rounded features, but male cykablyats look like bulbous potatoheads or faggoty babyfaces.

[Anonymous No.2998213]

>>2998187
looks kinda jewy. looks like Natalie Portman as a grandma

[Anonymous No.2998216]

>>2998199
>stupider

[NoseBro No.2998227]

>>2998216
what?

[Anonymous No.2998228]

>>2998199
trolling is a a art. you are bad at art I guess.

[Anonymous No.2998232]

>>2997006
Some people enjoy drawing.

[NoseBro No.2998241]

>>2998228

[Anonymous No.2998592]

Artists learn from reference yes, but they have the ability to use what they learned to bend what they know. You should use references to help you figure out shit you don't know, but you can use your imagination if you already have a natural understanding of what you're drawing and why you're bending certain things.

It's not complicated logic.

[Anonymous No.2998664]

>>2998194
Yeah, but why should we believe you? For all we know you could be practicing 4 hours a day and just pretend like you aren't trying to make yourself seem less incompetent. Like I already said, at the end of the day what matters is whether you're good or not, and you my friend are fucking garbage. Pretending that you aren't trying isn't gonna save face.

[NoseBro No.2998699]

>>2998664
If i lie i die i think i averaged between 40m and 1h15 per day over the last 3 years. I post nearly everything i draw and i draw moderately fast by most standards. My only position is that this guys been at it for 9 years and is trying to dismiss my rate of improvement despite it being superior.

Honestly, i used to love drawing, especially the first 6 months were great. Anything past that has been shit.

[Anonymous No.2998719]

>>2998128
>he voted for trump

How's that stage 4 terminal autism treating you?

[Anonymous No.2998728]

Just because you're never going to have the ability to draw from imagination doesn't mean it's a meme. It just means you have a mental disability.

[Anonymous No.2998907]

>>2997091
britty gud

[Anonymous No.2999570]

>>2997091
>>2997091
Its kind of bugging me how the glass pitcher on the right is connected to that chain. How did they connect the two?

[Anonymous No.2999577]

>>2999570
Good point, the first chain should be a hook instead.

+1 concept skills

[Anonymous No.2999607]

>>2998719
>he voted for a corrupt member of political royalty who is a warhawk and corporate shill with a self-centered slogan about her vagoo. Bu-bu-but she had a D next to her name.

How's that low IQ working out?

[Anonymous No.2999612]

>>2999607
>you
>talking about low IQ

[Anonymous No.2999641]

>>2998699
>If i lie i die
OOOOOh, this changes everything. Now I 100% believe everything you are saying.

GTFO.

[NoseBro No.2999648]

>>2999641
i have never lied following a "si je mens je meurs"

[Anonymous No.2999654]

>>2997006
Stop being deluded
References are not "bad"
Yet it's not any better to stick to reference and realize someday you can't draw shit from imagination, don't know where to start or find your mind blank when you try to remember what a dog looks like. Like, seriously?
Any half decent artist should be able to get the gist of a dog, even if it's a very basic shape

>But you don't need to there is google
It depends what you're hoping to achieve with drawing. Shut your brain and bore yourself to death or have fun.
There's so much more fun in drawing from imagination entirely and look up at reference when you need to for details and accuracy, but don't ever build entire drawings starting with one or several references, they'll be soulless and you'll learn nothing
A lot of talented hardworking concept artists end up with unappealing work because of that

>KJG has photographic memory.
true. Still a meme. Do you think that's what made him talented or the thousands of hours he spent practicing?

Imagination is essential to keep your art fresh

[Anonymous No.2999727]

>drawing solely from reference

How does it feel to be the world's most inefficient and error-prone camera?

[Anonymous No.2999748]

This is the Heart of Blizzards

I used references in its creation, a dozen or so previous drawings made as I felt out its final shape,look and proportions. Originally it was humanoid,an ice giant,but its evolution departed from that soon enough,mainly because Frost Giants have already been Done,part of mythology,part of media. So the research sketches made it spindly, then four legged,then ultimately dragonlike. I suppose Ice Dragons are also done to death as well,but I wouldn't try googling images for ideas. It had to be my own. Undoubtedly there are parallels out there,similar shapes,similar looks. But none done by ME. And that is the point.

References are all around us. Everything you see is recorded in your memory, and archetypes roam our collective subconscious like Gods. Other artists have influenced my own style,yet my hand is the ultimate arbiter of what appears under my pen. And my head is the place where the world swirls and the Gods leap out. Use photos? The buildings in them were conceived as all else:dancing lines on paper. The expressions and poses of the people in them are morphed by the artist to serve their own ends. To use photos is never "cheating",because its the artist that puts the imagery into their own context,orders the pose,composes the ordinary into the sparkling New.

Such is the answer. Such is the Journey into the unknown, and unknowable.

[NoseBro No.2999779]

>>2999748
if you hadnt referenced all that shit you wouldnt have lost track of your erroneous perspective.

[Anonymous No.2999780]

>>2999779
do you know what a concept drawing is?

[Anonymous No.2999817]

>>2999780
Dude, that thing is not that useable in production. Unless it's a concept "sketch" and you will make the actual concept page later.

You'd do fine in illustration though :)

[Anonymous No.3000678]

>>2999648
OOOOOh, this changes everything. Now I 100% believe everything you are saying.

GTFO.

[Anonymous No.3000809]

nosebro sucks, holy shit

[Anonymous No.3000879]

>>2997006
Go home sycra, no one wants to watch your shitty videos. No one proposed you should never use a reference nor did anyone propose that "drawing from imagination" means you make something up from pure nothingness you stupid shithead.

I swear this board gets more retarded by the second

[NoseBro No.3001003]

>>3000678
you should believe me since im telling the truth. its the french thousand needles.

[Anonymous No.3001169]

>>3001003
Nose "I am not a troll/shitposter" Bro, ladies and gentlemen.

Stop wasting your time on 4chan, captain autismo.

[Nose "I am not a troll/shitpos(...) No.3003209]

>>3001169
can't you just take my word for it, I gave you the french equivalent of the thousand needles swear. I'm putting forward all my cultural heritage when im saying i aint lying.

[Anonymous No.3003612]

>>2998207
hey, you take that back. I will not allow you to talk like that about my faggoty babyface

[Anonymous No.3003615]

>>2998241
stand up comedies in a nutshell

[Anonymous No.3003631]

>>2999607
>this much trumpgret

[Anonymous No.3004146]

>>2997163
brush? lol

[Anonymous No.3004189]

>>2999607

Whatever helps you sleep at night knowing you voted in a walking talking parody of an American.

[Anonymous No.3004282]

>>3004189
I didn't even vote for Trump. I might vote for him next time around though, I like to see 'liberals' scream and squirm. Hopefully Rand Paul runs as a Repub though, and we can get him in, with a hatchet in hand, and see how far he can go.

[Anonymous No.3004309]

>>3004282
that would be a breast of fresh ass, but probably never going to happen. trump is cow towing and not doing alot of things he said he would do. he may not have the gift of the gab like obama, but at least we know when hes lying and not just being a good politician. that's the reason why people are so crazy over this whole debacle.. we arent pacified by a good speechs that are straight lies to our faces. it may actually prove to be good for the politics in this country, but to have a actually good president in the coming elections is still just a dream, the american dream.

[Anonymous No.3004361]

>>2997969
You didn't had to post your work, y'know? Anyone with a bit of brain saw your critique was applying to Nosebro and you clearly have a theoretic understanding of art. It's not your responsibility if they don't want to improve.

[Anonymous No.3004363]

>>3004309
>breast of fresh ass,
This was the highlight of your post, the rest was just computer generated political ramblings

[Anonymous No.3004399]

Artists who have never used references are jumping the gun in their training. But artists who never advance beyond references will find it difficult to establish an identity, which is extra important for those who wish to be on the more storytelling side of art.

At a certain point, stylistic flourishes become more important than technical accuracy. That's when your employers and patrons are investing in you as the artist, not just the practical function of the work you produce. People will name you as an influence. Those threads about "cheap artists ruining it for the rest of us" will seem silly to you.

[Anonymous No.3004426]

>>2997109
>Unintentional Bog post
Fucking kek

[Nose "I am not a troll/shitpos(...) No.3004993]

>>3004361
>You didn't had to post your work,
AND THATS WHAT MAKES HIM A REAL MAN

[Anonymous No.3005011]

I don't find it a waste of time but when I really want to impress on technical skill I definitely use a reference.

From my imagination though I just love doing it for fun in my spare time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC4RM7TU72Y

[Anonymous No.3005225]

Art is creative. Sometimes it doesn't have to be technically brilliant, it just has to be interesting. You can have more than a photo or object as a reference, sometime a theory, song or drug is more effective.

[Anonymous No.3005419]

>>2997006
>mfw people falling for this b8

[Akirel No.3005818]

>>2997109

[Anonymous No.3005859]

I do not enjoy drawing from photos

I enjoy drawing from my imagination

I draw because I want to feel enjoyment

[Anonymous No.3005878]

>>2997709
>>2997722

The FUCK? This is all you can after 9 FUCKING YEARS?

[Akirel No.3005894]

>>2997773
Okay, so I came back and read this all from the beginning.

I don't like using reference, personally. I never thought it'd make much of a difference. But for a couple months now, I've just redrawn everything I thought looked cool, and I've soaked it all up faster than I thought I would. I only paint like, maybe 3-4 times a week, and I can see enormous levels of improvement in my work. And I know I don't have a photographic memory. I just surround myself with good art, think about it, compare it with mine(this I do daily, pretty much all day) and repaint paintings I think are good.

[Anonymous No.3005896]

Frazetta never used reference.

[Anonymous No.3005897]

>>2997969
>>2997973
These are the people trying to help you and you somehow still think you're above taking criticism that you already KNOW is valid because they don't always provide a link to their work (which is really a courtesy on top of a courtesy if you think about it). I don't think it was nice of the OP to call you out like that, but you seem like a right cunt so maybe you deserved it.

[Anonymous No.3005901]

What about the radical idea that you should use both references and imagination?

[Nose "I am not a troll/shitpos(...) No.3005906]

>>3005897
i never said critique is invalid if you dont post your work. i just want people to post their work.

>>3005878
no, like he said, were choosing not to count 8 of those years.

[Anonymous No.3006053]

>>3005896
kek

[Anonymous No.3006074]

Discord is a cancer on /ic/

>>3005906
Nosebro can't you tell these people are fucking with you? Most work posted in response is probably grabbed from some poor fuckwit's sketchbook on Sycra forums.

[Nose "I am not a troll/shitpos(...) No.3006156]

>>3006074
its a time neutral fight. As long as they're spending equal or more time as me im winning.

[Anonymous No.3006183]

What I can't wrap my head around is why does artist intentional chooses to suck longer than is necessary just to brag about their imagination. Reference makes learning a billion times faster and easier than reinventing the wheel.

[Anonymous No.3006246]

>>3006156
>its a time neutral fight
Nigga you talking about fighting shitposters on a website created to talk about chinese cartoons. Doesn't this notion sound at least a bit strange to you? Guess what the actual winning move is.

>>3006183
Any examples of this bragging except for Nosebro? There are some artists who stress that they did something without reference but I usually find it's because they are trying to break a plateau from relying too much on it. Reinventing the wheel isn't necessarily a bad thing either because it can train problem solving skills necessary for working on large pieces down the line.

[Nose "I am not a troll/shitpos(...) No.3006327]

>>3006246
It's exactly because im playing the only losing move that it's so amusing!

[Anonymous No.3006335]

>>3005878
Prime example of
>I just started drawing but I will be pro in one year
Get a grip, faggot.

[Nose "I am not a troll/shitpos(...) No.3006356]

>>3006335
To his defense, 9 years is plenty to reach pro even with 1hr a day.

[Anonymous No.3006374]

>>2997006
Well if you spend months working on a piece with realistic humans, you better be damn well looking at reference. Cartooning doesn't require that at all so fuck you.

[Anonymous No.3006402]

>>2997697
> By the way photographic memory isn't a thing.
You can't be fucking serious

[Nose "I am not a troll/shitpos(...) No.3006465]

>>3006402
define photographic memory. read the article i linked previously. There is not a single human in existence who can look at a book for a minute, close it, and read it on the go later.

[Anonymous No.3006551]

>>2998129
stop trolling my woman

[Akirel No.3006705]

>>3006551
Who's your woman?

[Anonymous No.3006871]

>>3006183
The classic example is the artist who default to' art is subjective/ its an hobby' card whenever they are faced with criticism, like its a badge of merit. Like why are they so against using resources to GIT GOOD?

[Anonymous No.3006875]

>>3006402
It's true. Here's another revelation for you: 'learning styles' are made up. Nobody learns better using the arbitrary way they think they learn better with like 'visual learning' than any other method. Western society builds up all these special snowflake attributes like 'photographic memory,' 'I learn better when I read/watch/hear it,' 'IQ' and 'talent' and then you come to learn it's all bullshit and everyone is only human.

[Anonymous No.3007993]

>>3006875
Are you retarded? Our brains aren't all wired the same way, dumb ass. Whether it's due to environmental or genetic factors, certain people would have strength in some areas more than others. That applies to learning styles as well.

I know you want to believe that we live in some egalitarian world where everyone is equal and we all have equal chances of achieving the same things in life but let me break it down to you kid, that's far from the truth. The truth is evolution doesn't give a fuck about equality, the only thing evolution cares about is making sure every generation and stronger and more equipped to the environment. The weak ones are tossed out of the gene pole while the strong ones propagate.

[Anonymous No.3008026]

>>3007993
That's nice, retard. Too bad the research doesn't support the existence of learning styles or else you might've been onto something with that spiel.
http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/a0037478 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360131511002338
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0098628315589505 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1111/j.1539-6053.2009.01038.x

[Anonymous No.3008027]

>>3007993
He's right, you moron. It has nothing to do with egalitarianism. "Kinesthetic/visual/whatever learning" is bullshit. IQ is real. Talent is real but not that significant.

t. /sci/entist, smarter and more knowledgeable than you

[Anonymous No.3008029]

>>3006183
Eventually reference is not enough for what you need.

[Anonymous No.3008223]

>>3006374
well, most young artists nowadays got into art because of cartoons, only to find out after a few years wasted on academic arts that that's not what they should be actually training on for their end goal

and that makes them start hating on academic arts, not because there is something wrong with them, but because they were push into it while they wanted something different but where not aware when young

[Anonymous No.3008228]

>>3007993
we are not equal, we are not wired all the same

but when comparing humans to humans, most ''wiring'' differences come from environment and habits

which mean ''git gud'' it;s a matter of building good habits, and not, ''what you were born with''

if somebody is better at learning thru hearing maybe that's because their parents talked a lot with them when they were toddlers and young kids so their brain puts a lot of attention on what is hearing

while a kid with good visual learning is a kid which had parents let him be alone by himself, and so he ended up paying more attention to the visual world around him

in conclusion is all a matter of what you pay attention

[Anonymous No.3008320]

>>3008228
>while a kid with good visual learning is a kid which had parents let him be alone by himself, and so he ended up paying more attention to the visual world around him
Holy shit