/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.2829324]

How do you master lighting like this? what do you need to do/study?

[Anonymous No.2829327]

B8

[Anonymous No.2829328]

>>2829324
Design doll is enough for her.

[Anonymous No.2829329]

>>2829324
forgot to add, all of the figures/faces I do either have no real light source (the whole thing just lit with shadows where they usually go like under the nose and lips), or with a light source to the to one side of the face, pic related was my latest attempt.

[Anonymous No.2829332]

>>2829324
The usual, form, shapes, light, value, color.
There's no secret to the particular painting or style, except for tons of work.

[Anonymous No.2829336]

>>2829329
pfffhahahahahahaha

It's the same crap all over again, scribbles over fundies. Get your structure rightm start with big shapes, instead of going into the detailing or trying to replicate the symptoms of some other style and adding glowing eyes and reflections everywhere.

Put a damn mirror in front of you, point a lamp at your face and draw what you see (In monochrome only, for now).

Working from there learn the planes of the head and their relations, how light falls and bounces.

[Anonymous No.2829380]

>>2829329
this is a promising start dude. the biggest problem right now is that your edges are disgusting. what you're doing with the right side of the nose is interesting but it shouldn't completely disappear like that. the other big problem is how flat the eyes are. if you solve those and clean it up a little, this will be entirely competent

[Anonymous No.2829392]

>>2829329
One side of her face is facing the front.

[Anonymous No.2829399]

>>2829329
1. skin tone is too dirty
2. headand facial features lacks sense structure/ too generic
3. Face looks too generic
4. Hair structure and color is boring

[RUAN JIA I'M COMING FOR YOU CU(...) !nMGe.ZFsos No.2829405]

>>2829324
buy training all day eberyday

[Anonymous No.2829407]

>>2829405
Post your work

[Anonymous No.2829411]

>>2829407
i am still pretty bad yet, but improved a lot since the beginning. i am not posting the work till i don't think it is actually decent

[Anonymous No.2829418]

Right...

So one component he has down is intuitive command of physically realistic form modelling.

A lot of people don't understand this but light fall off on a sphere has an exponential fall off. If you imagine a white sphere in black space being hit by a light source...

The first 10 degrees of the surface of the sphere will only experience a 2% drop off in the light reflection. Whereas in the final 10 degrees there is a rapid 20% loss of light.

This varies with light source distance and characteristics... but basically he is applying these rules to the head as a whole.

The forehead is very compressed where it faces the light and drops off rapidly near the shadow.

In addition to this he understands more complex physics, subsurface scattering through the nose (more orange due to blood) and transmitted light through the skin. Also local colour such as the lips being there own cooler red.

He understands how to place accurate specular reflections.

He understands the rules of diffuse reflection for colored objects ie that saturation remains stable while value drops as form turns away from light.

He is fucking great at drawing, has very good anatomy, knows the skull and the facial anatomy, the construction of a female specific skull. Perspective of course.

On top of this (stuff I don't feel confident describing) he is commanding abstraction of color, shape all sorts of things I can't do. He is incredibly nifty with PS.

His color is not realistic though obviously, but always to his own design. His light and form are a mixture of high physical accuracy and abstraction.

There will be many things I can't even guess at either. He is just fucking great at everything basically.

If you want to learn this stuff I would suggest picking up 3d and playing with spheres. Learning light.

You probably need to be smarter than the average bear and it will take years and years.

[Anonymous No.2829423]

>>2829418
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX_cIzpiluY

[Anonymous No.2829424]

>>2829418

For anatomy Scott Eaton's Facial Anatomy course will get you covered to this level.

[Anonymous No.2829448]

>>2829423

One more thing that I didn't appreciate for a long while.

Although he is great at quicker images, the awesome stuff is from him just beating things into submission over many hours.

When I say great at drawing, I mean in that sense, the ability to keep analyzing endlessly fixing tiny things. Not to knock his sketchbooks but you know...

If you are doing quicker studies expecting to get that it will never happen. At some point you need to start something and say "I refuse to stop" and fix everything, repaint everything as many times as it takes until you get... somewhere.

Even expect to work on something for a year or two, getting pissed off and having breaks away from it. Just refuse to give up, it will teach you a ton.

[Anonymous No.2829514]

>>2829448

[Anonymous No.2829538]

>>2829405
Kek I remember you.

[Anonymous No.2829573]

>>2829424
Is this up anywhere?

[Anonymous No.2829575]

>>2829448
this.

Russian academy emphasizes this exact discipline of working on images extremely slowly so that you can cultivate a keen eye for value, proportion, and so on. People go to atelier to cultivate this disicipline, because it literally allows you to attain brilliant results through sheer brute force alone.

It's a skill i don't see much anymore. it used to be that whoever had the spark was the person who could work the longest. it seems like nowadays whoever has the spark is a person whose work looks similar to something you've seen before.

by the time you finish a piece you've worked on for a year, you could probably think of ways do it in a few months, a few weeks, days, and so on.

[Anonymous No.2829578]

>>2829575
So polishing turds is actually the true way of mastery.

[Anonymous No.2829580]

>>2829578
Get your moms cock out of your mouth and actually try to understand what he's saying, shitposter.

[Anonymous No.2829583]

>>2829580
if you polish a turd long enough it can actually become a very shiny beautiful stone though

[Anonymous No.2829624]

>>2829575
>the spark
I'm not sure if you're aware but that's a meme buzzword around here meant to annoy people.
>>2829583
>>2829578
that's not at all analogous to what he's describing. he's talking about mindfully working on something while taking your time. it's the opposite of doing quick gestures, but both things can be valuable.

[Anonymous No.2829627]

>>2829580
I feel like the term "polishing turds" has been hijacked by lazy ass cunts who fell for the 5 quick sketch meme:
>“It’s you — Picasso, the great artist! Oh, you must sketch my portrait! I insist.”
>So Picasso agreed to sketch her. After studying her for a moment, he used a single pencil stroke to create her portrait. He handed the women his work of art.
>“It’s perfect!” she gushed. “You managed to capture my essence with one stroke, in one moment. Thank you! How much do I owe you?”
>“Five thousand dollars,” the artist replied.
>“But, what?” the woman sputtered. “How could you want so much money for this picture? It only took you a second to draw it!”
>To which Picasso responded, “Madame, it took me my entire life.”

That tale is garbage. They think that it means that being good lets you do good art ASAP.

There is a direct correlation between time and quality, even for experts. Some things only become apparent after you have spent long enough in an image, that why speed paintings are one of the most harmful things students can do.

[Anonymous No.2829632]

>>2829627
>To which Picasso responded, “Madame, it took me my entire life.”
your story is bullshit because no one would charge that much for a "single line stroke" but this quote is true though, she's not paying for his time, she's paying for the artwork. and that took him his entire life practicing and perfecting to be able to create something in 5 minutes or whatever. digital painting is entirely different than painting someones portrait on the side of the road. different skills at play, different medium, etc. people dedicating their lives to digital painting will also have to adhere to deadlines as well, major studios don't let you spend months perfecting a piece.

[Anonymous No.2829639]

>>2829575
>>2829627

IMHO the burden of quick sketches and speed painting is something that I think is the pitfall of a lot of beginners. As usual, I blame the internet for it's spreading of shitty memes.

The number of pieces for the usual atelier student is not a whole lot - you're looking at a handful of drawings and oil paintings that each take months to complete, alongside a good number of short and long-pose figure drawings and paintings. Short poses typically have the shadows blocked in, but no rendering done, and long poses are of course fully rendered figures.

So you get a bit of everything in there in a (relatively) short amount of time - 3 to 5 years to attain a very, very proficient level of draftsmanship and painting.

Ateliers are obviously aware of the need for time constraints which is why they have students work with real fruits and vegetables and race against the clock before these perishables change and wither.

However, the process does instill in you a much slower, contemplative attitude when it comes to the work which I personally find very beneficial. It's not a race against the clock, you're either paying attention to what is in front of you or you're being lazy about it. And it's obvious.

It would be far more practical for someone learning to focus in, attentively, on what they are trying to achieve at that very moment, and attempt to take a piece to it's completion. Obviously fixing things in earlier stages helps, but this knowledge comes with experience as usual. The knowledge of how to position and move the wrist, elbow, arm and how to make the right lines and values develop from this.

[Anonymous No.2829642]

why not practice both speed speed sketches/painting and also do slow deliberate pieces?

[Anonymous No.2829661]

>>2829642
That entirely depends on your goals with quick sketches. But eventually you need to do both anyways. It's just that I see too much quick sketching where one, longer study would be more beneficial. The beginner art thread is a good example.

[Anonymous No.2829746]

>>2829642
Because the skill of speed comes with the understanding and experience of the subject. The experienced artist is not faster than the novice because they can make a faster stroke but because they can do more with a single stroke than a less experienced artist can.

An analogy has been made with dogs and puppies. If you watch a puppy long enough you will notice they exert a lot of time and energy to perform simple tasks, when compared to a dog, jumping on a couch or climbing up stares is effortless and much faster.

This exact same principle applies experienced and non experienced artists.

If you train yourself to be faster by just working faster you are only going to burn yourself out quicker.

So my question to you is, why waste time practicing both when you can just do slower deliberate work and achieve both speed and understanding ?

[Anonymous No.2829773]

>>2829746

I get the impression that /ic/ in general doesn't have a good grasp of how to practice because even the sticky doesn't really cover it well.

FZD talks about it in his podcasts especially with respect to having a theme for your work (in addition to doing the doodling and the sketching), which is more effective for practice because you're getting into the process of also building a portfolio of your work.

Then again he also went to school and he advocates going to a school for majority of people (that includes /ic/) and no one takes his action/advice on this so, I don't know if the people here are interested in being professionals or are solely interested in art as an amateur hobby.

[Anonymous No.2829776]

>>2829746
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQH0TSRWoyI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNZCHAsrMOw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaCLdbpHwag

look at these paintings, these are done in a short amount of time and couldn't have been done in another way unless you took a a video or photo of the group. if you weren't to practice painting live models you couldn't do this. you get a real understanding of how people move and interact with light and the environment.

[Anonymous No.2829825]

>>2829776
please read my post more carefully. I never said you couldn't do speed sketching, I'm saying speed comes with more understanding and not forcing yourself to speed sketch by painting fast if you are a beginner. This guy in your video is clearly not a novice so I don't get why you posted those.

[Anonymous No.2829845]

>>2829776
You proved >>2829746's point perfectly, James Gurney is really fucking good and he can paint faster because he does more with less time, not because he rushes. Now get back to practicing slowly and deliberately

[Anonymous No.2829880]

>>2829773
>because even the sticky doesn't really cover it well.
Sticky is a fucking trash that only confuses people.

[Anonymous No.2830014]

>>2829880
can you elaborate on that?

[Anonymous No.2830090]

>>2829324
report and sage

[Anonymous No.2830764]

>>2829514
h-he didnt actually waste 500 hours... r-right?

[Anonymous No.2830773]

>>2830764
why would they be wasted? what have you done in those hours? shitpost? fuck off.

[Anonymous No.2830810]

>>2830773
He was just polishing a turd

[Anonymous No.2831377]

THUTV just released Ruan Jia's master class(along with others), anyone know where I can get a hand on this without actually having to pay $100+? I will probably pay anyway if this doesn't exist online elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.2831407]

>>2830810
that image probably played an integral role in his learning process. It was one of his last portraits that still had a slightly dirty look to it because he still didn't have the greatest handling of greys, translucency and broken color. The insanely skillful shit he can do today is most definitely a result of him just trying the very best he could possibly do, no matter how long it took him and then learn from his mistakes.

If you're unwilling to do your absolute best at your current skill level because you're afraid of polishing a "turd" every once in a while, I can assure you, you will never polish a diamond either.

[Anonymous No.2831500]

>>2831407
you're pretty cool, anon

[Anonymous No.2831502]

>>2831407
>It was one of his last portraits that still had a slightly dirty look to it because he still didn't have the greatest handling of greys, translucency and broken color
What does this mean and how can I get to your level of understanding?

[Anonymous No.2831984]

>>2831502
Not him, but
>greys have the habit of attaining the opposite color temperature of the adjacent colors. it's a bit of an optical illusion, and can either make a painting look muddy or create some amazing imaginary colors through color vibration

>translucency refers layering paint in a way that allows you to see the colors underneath, usually through means of passages, scumbling, glazing and washes. you can get some nice subtleties and gradients in color that are very hard to get through color mixing alone.

>Broken color and color vibration refers to the same idea. you can mix colors optically by placing them next to eachother, retinal persistence causes motion blur, and this motion blur can acually mix colors for you if done right. very fucking hard, because it requires knowing how an eye moves around the canvas,the placing colors appropriately so that red blurs into orange and not purple for example.

I'm not an english speaker, but i think that if you want a good grasp of concepts like this, invest some time into learning about traditional painting techniques. 阮佳 seems to use a lot of traditional tech like pic related

[Anonymous No.2832001]

>>2831407
This is exactly what I have told /ic/ when they told me I was just polishing turds. Not only I felt it helped me a lot but I actually felt and still feel proud of my longer complex works

[Anonymous No.2832094]

>>2832001
well the difference is, he knows how to use his tools. you dont.

[Anonymous No.2832143]

>>2832094
You learn to use them in the process, something works and then you add it to the process simple as that.

I'm far from RJ level but it has worked for me

[Anonymous No.2832162]

>>2832001
>taking ic serious
What the fuck are you doing

[Anonymous No.2832189]

>>2832001
So. Would you learn more by doing 365 paintings in a year (given that you give it your best with 8hrs of dedicated work to make a complete painting, not just half-assed rough scribbles to call it a day), or 12 paintings in a year (just polishing, adding extra shit, over-analyzing etc the same thing for a month)?

[Anonymous No.2832246]

>>2832143
not how it works bud

[Anonymous No.2832292]

>>2829514
That's more like 5 paintings he could have called finished but kept messing with and changing stuff until he got one he liked. Not all of his work takes that long, I've seen him do the majority of a painting in 2-3 hours.

[Anonymous No.2832304]

>>2829405
Finally you're back. Thought you'd give up or something. Post your progress, nile

[Anonymous No.2832313]

>>2832246
Not that anon but are you retarded?
That's exactly how it works. Explain exactly how I'm wrong and what he should he doing instead if you disagree, along with some examples (your own work preferably)

[Anonymous No.2832324]

>>2832313
youre saying theres a lot more to software brushes? ruanjia uses basic photoshop brushes you can even see in his vids. theres nothing complicated about that, its not a process its just knowing how to use it. now if youre talking about a workflow on using more than just that then thats a different story.

[Anonymous No.2832334]

>>2832324
Not him but the other one, I agree there is more than just the brushes and the app...Duh .

I even use the default ones after 4.5 years of drawing but my point still stands you do learn by failing and giving all what you have at some point in time to create the best piece you can come up with.

[Anonymous No.2832353]

>>2832334
>I agree there is more than just the brushes and the app
ok bye, fucking beginners

[Anonymous No.2832372]

>>2832189
I'm /beg/ tier so take this with a grain of salt but I think the former would be more beneficial to beginners while the latter would suit an expert and somewhere in between for someone at an intermediate level.

[Anonymous No.2832399]

>>2832001

People will tell you that you're polishing a turd when your underlying fundamental problems are not being addressed and you appear to be mismanaging your study. The difference is that the problem Ruan Jia was working on was the correct thing to focus on.

People who don't recognize their problems may spend hours and hours trying to 'force' a painting to work. They render and detail aimlessly without addressing underlying fundamental problems with the piece that hold it back from ever being good in the first place. It's the difference between walking towards a destination for 500 hours and wandering in circles for the same amount of time. Aimless study is doodling, the only place it will get you is in the progress cringe thread.

It's a knowledge problem. There's nothing wrong with trying to do long efforts early on, it's just that you need to be aware that you may not be spending your time wisely. There are a lot of things in art that just consume unnecessarily huge amounts of time, especially if you don't know what you're doing and you're mistakenly trying to reinvent the wheel.

If someone accuses you of polishing a turd, chances are they're just being frank with you. Take it with a grain of salt, but don't blind yourself to criticism. See what the group consensus and tone is anyway. Usually if it's just someone being an incorrect asshole, someone else will call them out on it, if only to stroke their ego.

[Anonymous No.2832413]

>>2832399
this.

Ruan Jia went back in the middle of that piece to study the fundamentals of the skull, make sketches of noses etc. while he was trying to change up the face. so he didn't just blindly "force it" by spending months adding more layers over aimless paint-overs and micro-details

[Anonymous No.2832422]

Sorry for butting in but I'm kind of torn at the "polishing turds" experience.

I see lots of artist with so called polished turds, drawings that have great rendering, coloring but piss poor fundamentals. Aren't colors and shading fundamentals themselves?

This is also seen in visual novels often.

[Anonymous No.2832442]

>>2832422

It's not so much about rendering in particular as it is about the concept of mishandling your study. It could go either way, you could have a good base drawing, and then waste time trying to force a bad painting to work without addressing the problems correctly.

[Anonymous No.2832447]

>>2832422
yes. color, light, values are part of the fundamentals. and yeah there are people who just do a lot of painting, and by default become good at rendering. but never bother properly learning anatomy.

[Anonymous No.2832448]

if someone says "polish turd" in any conjugation one more time i will forfeit to simulation theory you fucking NPC synthetic hominids.

If something isn't working you remove it and try again, when you refuse to do that, you end up just trying to "save it" by putting more shit on top.

Jia even said it himself, when stuff doesn't work he scraps it and tries again, often setting his work back by several days.

[Anonymous No.2832455]

> polishing a diamond

[Anonymous No.2832460]

>>2832455
it's more like polishing a diamond, decide mid-way that you want to throw it away and start polishing a different diamond instead

[Anonymous No.2832501]

>>2832460
FUCK OFFF

[Anonymous No.2832511]

>>2832455
where the fuk is the THU vid

[Anonymous No.2832566]

>>2832511
here

(cgpeers)

[Anonymous No.2832578]

>>2832566
thx...is ruan jia painting the burning castle....cause i was hoping for a dragon demo : (

[Anonymous No.2832585]

>>2832578
there is only his career path
I did't find his thu demo

[Anonymous No.2832589]

>>2832585
ahh kk thanks

[Anonymous No.2832644]

>>2829324
You just paint lots of shit.

[Anonymous No.2832737]

>>2832413
I don't really understand what's so great about this piece. It's pretty much the same as the first piece Ruan Jia made except he changed small bits here and there.

[Anonymous No.2832740]

>>2832304
Last I heard from him he despised illustration lol

[Anonymous No.2832741]

>>2832740
>despising drawing whatever you want
The fuck?

[Anonymous No.2832750]

>>2832455
Wow, it changes so much, it's like it's actually moving.

[Anonymous No.2832816]

>>2832741
Think it had to do with him being colour blind or some shit

[Anonymous No.2832825]

>>2832455
How much time did he have for this demo if he started from scratch after painting pic related?

[Anonymous No.2832837]

>>2832825
That wasn't a demo, his demo was him painting an orange hover bike which I've yet to find online

[Anonymous No.2832838]

>>2832816
Fucker is still painting everyday, and sits on some secret ic discord, but won't they won't let me in there

[Anonymous No.2832872]

>>2832838
he is mentally ill 100%

[Anonymous No.2832989]

>>2832872
On what basis?

[Anonymous No.2833028]

>>2832837
http://www.bilibili.com/video/av5795960/

this one?

[Anonymous No.2833060]

>>2832989
>Ruan Jia I'M COMING FOR YOU CUNT !nMGe.ZFsos

just look at this shit

he's retarded

[Anonymous No.2833068]

>Ruan Jia I'M COMING FOR YOU CUNT !nMGe.ZFsos

[Anonymous No.2833131]

>>2833068
Looking at his face from this angle, maybe he really is autistic.

[Anonymous No.2833173]

>>2833131
If you watch his thu talk he does feel a little spergy, could just be the language barrier though

[Anonymous No.2833254]

>ywn be 阮佳

[Anonymous No.2833258]

>>2833254
You could be if you started right now.

[Anonymous No.2833260]

>>2833254
You can't but you can be yourself anon

[Anonymous No.2833961]

[Anonymous No.2834039]

>>2833961
This is what you call being overly saturated right? It looks uncanny.

[Anonymous No.2834064]

>>2834039
I don't know what you're talking about. It looks good.

[Anonymous No.2834068]

Photo references

[Anonymous No.2834077]

>>2833060
>sos
send help

[Anonymous No.2834233]

>>2829405
>he trains more than 5-6 hours every day
See catalog

[Anonymous No.2834239]

>>2834039
i dont think you know what saturation is

[Anonymous No.2835696]

http://trojan-unicorn.cleeng.com/vod/ruan-jia-vehicle-concept-process-masterclass/A232798738_PT

€123.00 shiet..

[Anonymous No.2835725]

>lmao just make everything glow, glowing hair, glowing eyes, glowing mouth, just do it faggot

[Anonymous No.2835955]

>>2835725
if only it was that easy smart ass

[Anonymous No.2836069]

>>2829332
This is the essential honest answer you're looking for, OP. but you'll ignore it entirely in hopes to find some sort of trick or shortcut.

[Anonymous No.2836088]

>>2834068
This is one of my main issues with this board, it's good to aim for drawing without theb hassle of looking for refrenrences but at some point the rendering of your work ought to be cross checked with one or several references, if you're ambitious and/or competent you will make good use of them

[Anonymous No.2836099]

>>2835696
wow i had a theory that ruan jia used craig mullins/jaime jones brushes when i downloaded his brush pack, interesting.

[Anonymous No.2836127]

>>2835696
>>2836099
>I don make my own brash, I jus use brash by Crug Muwin and Jayme Jone.

WESTERN SUPREMACY. Get rekt, chinkaboos.

[Anonymous No.2836129]

i want this demo

[Anonymous No.2836132]

[Anonymous No.2836136]

>>2835725
I don't understand why some people on /ic/ like to brag about their lack of knowledge and understanding of painting techniques.

[Anonymous No.2836244]

>>2831407
my question is still, did he ACTUALLY SPEND 500 FUCKING HOURS or is that just a meme? becuase 500 hours is a fucking lot. i dont care if its wasted time or if its a turd, i just wanna know if he really spendt 500 hours on one painting.

[Anonymous No.2836257]

>>2836244
There's no exact time, but this painting took a year and says he spend days here and there just studying to get it right because he has too painterly of a style. So it's not impossible the work that it took to finish this piece the way it is took that long. 500 hours isn't even all that long when you compare it to 8,700 hours.

[Anonymous No.2836575]

>>2833068
if he fixes his hairstyle he will be extra cute.

[Anonymous No.2836576]

>>2836575
Fix it how
He's had the same hair cut for ages

[Anonymous No.2836598]

>>2836575
>>2836576
He's balding

[Anonymous No.2836601]

>>2836598
Isn't he only in his early 30s

[Anonymous No.2836609]

>>2836601
I'm only 18 and have worse hairline than him. Genetics

[Anonymous No.2837115]

[Anonymous No.2837123]

>>2836244
He didn't spend all 500 hourd painting and repainting it. This time includes anatomy and portrait studies he did for this painting. And I don't think he ever said anything about exactly 500 hour, he said that that painting took him a year to finish on his off time from work.

[Anonymous No.2837369]

>>2836244
It's only two months runt.

[Anonymous No.2838999]

>>2836257
>8,700

w-what?

[Anonymous No.2840552]

>>2837115
He didn't even draw his tshirt.

[Anonymous No.2840562]

>>2838999
8,760 hours in a year.

[Anonymous No.2841433]

>>2832566
Can you like share? Like Everything THUTV related?

[Anonymous No.2842587]

>>2841433
bumb I need thos files

[Anonymous No.2842723]

>>2841433
It's about 60Gb

[Anonymous No.2842897]

>>2842723
bump