What causes a once great artist to get lazy and the art they makes takes a hit? Do they stop practicing? I'm only using this image as an example, as it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

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Anonymous Sun Jan 15 16:24:41 2017 No.2817639 [Reply] [Original]

What causes a once great artist to get lazy and the art they makes takes a hit? Do they stop practicing?

I'm only using this image as an example, as it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 15 16:25:43 2017 No.2817641 >>2817639 they can slack on quality cause their fanbase wont honestly care a whole lot.

Anonymous Sun Jan 15 16:30:36 2017 No.2817648

>>2817639

It's called drawing comics. It's a lot of work, and often results in imperfect art because of time constraints. If you've never drawn sequencial art under a deadline you wouldn't understand. Incase likely spends way more time on his(?) pinups than he does on a single panel. As such the anatomy etc. suffers. Even advanced artists can produce crappy art under a deadline.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 15 16:46:31 2017 No.2817661 >>2817648 This, it's a big reason why manga opts for simple anime faces instead of more detailed realistic ones most of the time. People underestimate how HARD drawing comics is.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 15 16:48:10 2017 No.2817666 File: 51 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2817648 This Dont be surprised if he resorts to tracing in order to meet those deadlines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVZzYlNIgMI

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 15 17:10:20 2017 No.2817691 >>2817666 I wonder what technical deficiencies you gotta have to work faster with tracing. lel

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 15 17:53:20 2017 No.2817739 File: 86 KB, 467x496, 1484269162584.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2817666 >The best people just cheat to the top while the rest of us mooks play pretend I feel like such a naive cuck right now for not knowing this sooner.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 04:09:38 2017 No.2818572 >>2817666 >Expect to listen to one dude whining about how it's okay for him to trace >A good deal of the well known artists you know traced and some went great lengths to do so Well fuck

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 05:51:46 2017 No.2818637 >>2817666 I've watched a few of his picarto streams and he didn't trace anything actually.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 06:00:54 2017 No.2818642 >>2817648 Another thing is that when you write a story the first few pages are the most important ones. After you have gotten the reader invested in the story and curious they are more likely to forgive that certain things look weird.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 06:05:50 2017 No.2818644 >>2817639 what is wrong with this?

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 06:10:42 2017 No.2818646

Why are there so many morons on /ic/ that can't understand the concept of deadlines and time constraints? Have you faggots never held a job before?

Every commercial product known to man is hampered by deadlines. Even the ones you think are good. Listen to the interviews of anyone in the industry and they will bring up how much more they would do or fix if they had the time. You need to learn to let go and move on. Every piece isn't going to be perfect when you have schedules to uphold and maintain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 06:13:42 2017 No.2818647 i trace to make the shekels with commercial work that i'm not passionate about. i feel sorry for everyone who doesn't the same. although ofc you don't improve when you trace, so for beginner artists it's a bad idea.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 08:37:07 2017 No.2818739

>>2818647
Tracing doesn't save that much time at all if you are above beginner level though.

I mean, if you want to save time, you'll have to make compromises one way or another. When tracing, your anatomy and proportions will look alright, but everything else will look stiff and boring and if you're doing a more complex scene and have to use several different references, your perspective will look wonky as shit.

Meanwhile, a moderately experienced artist will usually come up with a much more energetic and consistent looking drawing when freehanding it, but might lose a bit of accuracy, proportions and anatomy for the sake of speeding it up. So really, all you're doing when tracing is trading in consistency and energy for accuracy and anatomy, which usually is not a very good trade and most clients prefer the former over the latter anyway.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:06:47 2017 No.2818766

>>2818647

I disagree, I improved my animal anatomy by tracing for a comic penciling job.But I have decent construction and knowledge of human anatomy and I've always been analytical by default so it's possible that I simply analyze what I trace more than a beginner would.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:11:51 2017 No.2818769 >>2817661 I see this argument everywhere, and yet, they still actually render everything in full color. Why not give things good shapes and forms and ditch the shading a bit?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:15:37 2017 No.2818772 >>2818769 What? I can't think of a single manga that is done in full color. Also, focusing on shape and form is exactly what most mangaka are doing, at the expense of realistic anatomy.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:16:09 2017 No.2818773

>>2818646
yeah I agree. Reminds me of how /ic/ was bemoaning bengus' SFV illustrations. He was obviously under an enormous time crunch.
Also I really don't see anything wrong with OPs picture, are you expecting fully rendered pinup style for every panel? It reads well enough to me, could use a bit more ambitious posing, but I think thats true for all of incases work.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:18:39 2017 No.2818775

>>2818772
No, no no no, drawing a proper face doesn't take longer than drawing a shitty animu face, stop this meme at once!

As for the color part, I was more refering to the comic in the OP, I know plenty japanese comics aren't drawn in color, yet they still manage to suck.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:31:36 2017 No.2818787 >>2818775 They don't draw "proper" faces because they want to draw stylized faces you autistic moron.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:32:21 2017 No.2818788 >>2818775 Drawing a animu face on model vs a realistic face of a celebrity consistently in different angles Uh yes anon, I'd take the animu face please.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:33:15 2017 No.2818790

>earn thousands of dollars
>get nothing but constant and unending praise from social media
>have a fanbase that will eat up anything you shit out

I know most of you are just Dunning Kruger year one cucks who have yet to experience any of those things but it's really not hard to get in the shoes of 90% of famous internet artist who never improved past the thing that made them big enough to make a living.

Especially considering the subject matter of western porn comic books artists since there aren't that many of them on the western side of the internet because gaijins are too fucking lazy to bother when they can just sell shitty commissions with generic poses and abstract backgrounds.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:34:10 2017 No.2818791 >>2818790 >I could be sakimichan if I really wanted to, I just dont feel like it

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:35:49 2017 No.2818795

>>2818787
I'm not arguing that, everyone has the right to be bad.

>>2818788
I don't know, it's still very much the same amount of lines, and they did have to study the animu face's form at least a bit, so yeah. It'd just take studying actual faces a bit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:38:21 2017 No.2818798 >>2818795 >it's still very much the same amount of lines lol what

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:40:07 2017 No.2818799 >>2818795 You've still got a very long road ahead of you if you are still at the very first beginner stage where you think stylization is inherently bad and inferior to realism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:40:14 2017 No.2818800 >>2818798 Yes, the form of a proper face is not that much more complex than the form of an animu face outline-wise, which is what we're talking about, you just need to actually know how it works.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:45:47 2017 No.2818807

>>2818799
I don't hate stylization, I just prefer good looking things as opposed to bad looking things. Though, in my eyes, stylization is often used as an excuse.

I get that time restraints beg for simplified poses and figures, but that's not what I'm arguing here, so stop moving the goalpost, all I said was an animu face is not faster to draw than a proper face if you know how a proper face works.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:46:02 2017 No.2818808 >>2818800 A realistically drawn face is a hundred times more complex than simple animu symbols. I have to assume your posts are bait. Have you seen animu noses?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:46:53 2017 No.2818810 >>2818800 They do know how it works though, otherwise they couldn't simplify or stylize the features consistently.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:48:35 2017 No.2818812 >>2818807 Anime faces are simplified and have less detail, so obviously they are faster to draw.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:56:50 2017 No.2818823

>>2818808
I also said without shading, I referred to outlines; most form will always be acquired through shadow. Drawing from imagination is drawing from imagination, it always borrows from your knowledge; the symbol argument is shit.

>>2818810
I don't know about this.

>>2818812
>less detail
Just slap a proper outline on the most prominent facial features and you already have a much better result. It literally comes down to size and a couple curves, come on.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:57:52 2017 No.2818824 >What is streamlining

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 09:59:41 2017 No.2818826
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You know that InCase actually took a year off to study art and he came back improved and producing more content on a regular basis, right?

What you're comparing isn't fair because this is a comic. Comics are have to be released consistently. You can't expect every panel to be a perfectly rendered art piece for someone who has to hit deadlines for a demanding fanbase.

That's not realistic.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:03:29 2017 No.2818828

>>2818823
>the symbol argument is shit

It's not an argument, it's fact. All cartooning relies on symbols. And yes, drawing realistic faces from memory also relies on memorized shapes, but they ARE more complex. Are you seriously arguing that drawing say, Tom Cruise with a good likeness consistently in a realisitc style in a comic book would take the same time as drawing Goku from Dragonball ?

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:09:54 2017 No.2818831

>>2818826
Leaving this example aside, I do think time constraints shouldn't be seen as an excuse for flaws, but rather as something people should strive to improve on. Learning how to draw, in my experience, is learning how to draw faster; anyone who can measure, given an infinite amount of time, should be able to draw anything, those who are good, though, can get everything right with just a couple strokes, barely even stopping to consciously measure whatever it is they're drawing; furthermore, they waste less time with erasing, layers, and any of the other auxiliary tools that aren't the brush itself.

That's what I think means to GitGud, is to draw something well, fast and without needing anything else other than the ability to add color to the canvas. Of course, I'm not saying this is realistic, everyone makes mistakes, but I think this should be what we strive for, and I feel it's the reason why many beginner oriented books urge you to never erase during exercises.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:11:38 2017 No.2818834

>>2818828
>Are you seriously arguing that drawing say, Tom Cruise with a good likeness consistently in a realisitc style in a comic book would take the same time as drawing Goku from Dragonball ?
Yes, from the moment you got acquainted with the form properly you could outline it in a heart beat. Our brain doesn't just imagine shapes, we can actually imagine forms rotating in space and shit, you should try it sometime.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:16:45 2017 No.2818840

>>2818831

It depends on what your goal is in mind with any art piece. To provoke thought? To communicate a narrative or idea? To sell a product?

In the case of Incase (hurr durr puns) 's comic and any comic the story is what is important first. As long as the art is able to communicate what is going on and is readable at a first glance than it's doing it's job as a comic. Sure there can be anatomy mistakes or coloring mistakes, but unless something is so terrible it stands out and takes away from the comic. You are right though, time constraints shouldn't be an excuse for obvious flaws but if the person has a good foundation in art already there shouldn't be any.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:22:32 2017 No.2818850

>>2818834

If your posts are not bait I can only assume you have some form of rare dsiability where you can't see faces properly or something. What you're writing is just too bizarre to take seriously. You're suggesting that drawing a realistic portrait likeness from memory in any conceivable angle and expression would take the same time as learning to draw a simple animu face on model. Might be the most ridiculous claim I've ever read on /ic/

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:25:00 2017 No.2818851 >>2818850 >You're suggesting that drawing a realistic portrait. No, a realistic portrait is composed of spots of colour, not outlines. I'm suggesting that any shape takes the same amount of time to outline if you know that shape well enough.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:28:36 2017 No.2818856 >>2818826 >What you're comparing isn't fair because this is a comic. Well it looks like complete trash compared to his previous comics too.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:31:13 2017 No.2818860

>>2818851

That's not what I said. Read again.
I said a realistic portrait _likeness_ which can be done in line only. As in, a art style suitable for a comic book.
Realistic styles of drawing have more complex shapes than animu. Complexity adds time and difficulty Drawing a good likness in a realistic style is extremely time consuming, and difficult. If you can't see this, you probably don't draw very much.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:35:25 2017 No.2818863

>>2818860
>Realistic styles of drawing have more complex shapes than animu
Realistic styles don't rely on outlines, I said from the beginning there'd be no shading, so it can't be "realistic".

> Drawing a good likness in a realistic style is extremely time consuming, and difficult.
You're drawing your characters, having proper facial structure != being realistic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:36:27 2017 No.2818866 >>2818860 Oh, and I probably draw more than you since I don't waste my time watching shitty animu :^)

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:38:25 2017 No.2818867
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>>2817666
When someones argument basically amounts to "they did it so its ok", its rather weak. Why use that as justifcation for not just getting better without using crutches?

This isn't really questioning their ability, I just don't see any good reason not to strive to develop your skills where by you are faster and better than those that work like that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:44:19 2017 No.2818877 >>2817639 Not sure what you mean as you didn't post a before/after. Are you just assuming everyone knows who this person is and knows there body of work?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:46:33 2017 No.2818880 >>2818863 So Dragonball is the most realistic you can get in comic book form then? Okay anon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:47:48 2017 No.2818881 >>2818880 Fine, think whatever.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 10:58:00 2017 No.2818886

>>2818867
So why exactly are you assuming that Murata himself is not tracing? Well, beyond you being obviously addicted to his cock.

If anything your picture is pretty fucking suspicious, considering glaring discrepancy in detail between the road/sky which could be traced and the imaginary building building.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:01:31 2017 No.2818890 >>2818886 I don't think that was the point of his post at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:02:41 2017 No.2818891 >>2818886 Also: check them satellite dishes not only looking the same but also very conveniently pointing in the same direction.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:09:37 2017 No.2818900
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>>2818886
I'm assuming nothing, merely asking the question of why people use the fact that someone else doing something is justification for also doing it. In this instance its imposing a limitation on yourself.

Really it should be "KJG can do 'x', why don't i try to do that too" - It just seems people would rather be complacent or make excuses for themselves.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:21:54 2017 No.2818919

>>2818900
Your thinking lacks any nuance.

>person A spends 8 hours drawing background for a comic
>person B traces and finishes his job in 4

>person B's work looks better and more natural because the source material is real
>person B can spend 4 hours he saved practicing art, including imagination backgrounds whereas person A is cucking himself trying to finish his job

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:29:54 2017 No.2818928 >>2818919 You're an idiot, and no, I'm not a (you).

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:31:56 2017 No.2818930 >>2818647 tracing saves you time only if you are a beginner tier scrub. any artist that is good enough doesn't need tracing to be able to work fast.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:34:34 2017 No.2818933
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>>2817639
What the hell happened, InCase... You used to draw the most attractive faces and expressions, but lately your construction has gone down the shitter! Everyone's faces are sagging downwards, particularly in profile it's just atrocious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:36:38 2017 No.2818936 >>2818933 Forgot to mention; pic above is one of his slightly earlier comics, before this sagging-face-syndrome hit full force.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:38:43 2017 No.2818937 >>2818933 Is that a female with a dick?

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:55:04 2017 No.2818954
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>>2818919
Rough conceptart for the latest tombraider game was done in 4-8hours, finished illustrations done traditionally for Little Witch Academia were done in what I would estimate to be similar (the only example being a 9hour illustration done for the documentary). In some cases time was gained, in others not.

You talk about lacking nuance and I understand that you've made exaggerations to emphasis your point but like you say, there is more at play here.

Looking at the animator storyboards and seeing what they convey as a sketch I don't think that the time spent to find something to trace and then tracing would improve their workflow. If anything it would act as a hinderance to what they have in their mindseye UNLESS they start from the reference in a way that Asano Inio works.

I really don't know how to approach your thinking, all the more so if I make the assumption of equal skill between both artists because part of what makes a good artists image work will be how they view or stylise things, and if their fundamentals are at a high level then for pose/anatomy/composition what use is the photo to trace? I can understand having a template or reference if your work is more grounded I just see little value in tracing, if you're good you're also fast enough at sketching whereby its not useful - you can pull details from an environment like placement of key objects or set dressing but outside of that I don't see it being twice as fast for those that are skilled artist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 11:56:29 2017 No.2818956 >>2818933 Why do so many western comics look like a shitty rotoscope or a redraw over actors? It's uncanny as fuck and weirds me out. Maybe it's just me but I can't stand western stuff because of it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 12:03:46 2017 No.2818963 >>2818937 I'm pretty sure it's just a guy with tits.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 12:47:10 2017 No.2819012

>>2818739
>all you're doing when tracing is trading in consistency and energy for accuracy and anatomy, which usually is not a very good trade and most clients prefer the former over the latter anyway.
>most clients prefer the former over the latter anyway.

Prove it

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 12:53:42 2017 No.2819017

>>2818790
>earn thousands of dollars
>get nothing but constant and unending praise from social media
>have a fanbase that will eat up anything you shit out
>I know most of you are just Dunning Kruger year one cucks who have yet to experience any of those things but it's really not hard to get in the shoes of 90% of famous internet artist who never improved past the thing that made them big enough to make a living.

Fuck you
At least we still have our artistic integrity. Right /ic/?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:23:43 2017 No.2819049 >>2818956 confirmation bias. you simply got too used to seeing anime and jerking off to it. you are basically a weeb dickbrain. it's okay tho. if you don't aim at becoming a good artist, there's nothing wrong with being one.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:30:18 2017 No.2819055

This thread seems relevant enough.

I have issues to keep my quality consistent while doing a comic. It's not about keeping it clean and neat, the exact opposite. I'm trying to keep my style rough and flowing, but it tends to become clean and simplified. Is it just me becoming aware of the situation? Should I do more warmups?

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:33:03 2017 No.2819058

>>2818954
It's just that whenever tracing is mentioned people quickly jump to conclusion that artists trace whole photos and figures and whatnot. The example was somewhat exaggerated but there is really is no reason to waste time sketching in lots of cases like when you are drawing an already existing building from a generic angle. Or, say, you need to draw the same face/figure/object from the single angle multiple times with minor differences. Why the fuck would you ever bother doing the same sketch three times when merely inking/rendering it 3 times gives enough variability for the eye to not treat it like a copy and paste?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:34:08 2017 No.2819060 >>2818956 >tfw incase listened to people like you and his artstyle turned into downfaced garbage

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:40:31 2017 No.2819067

>>2818954
Also:
>Rough conceptart for the latest tombraider
Pretty much all concept arts for those generic realistic western shooters/RPGs are photobashed to hell and back. It's not tracing but I'm not sure it is entirely fair on your part to mention it.

>finished illustrations done traditionally for Little Witch Academia
What the fuck would you even trace in that case? Exaggerated magic castles?

And wasn't the very first Little Witch Academia a tech demo for new rotoscoping techniques? Kind of ironic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:43:05 2017 No.2819070 >>2819060 Clearly he wasn't that good then.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:48:48 2017 No.2819080

>>2818919
If both person A and person B have a reference in front of them, then person A is probably done quicker freehanding it because he is experienced enough to leave out shit that isn't important and adjust the reference as he sees fit, ending up with a looser and much more dynamic end result at a faster pace than person B who lacks said experience and traces every irrelevant detail in the hope of distracting the reader from how stiff and boring everything looks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:49:15 2017 No.2819081 >>2818956 no aesthetic sense whatsoever. this people probably grew up wanting to do movies or some other shit, and don't value the media for what it is. also, not a "western" thing: french are pretty gud,eg.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:52:27 2017 No.2819083 >>2819060 >Can't think for himself >Fails cus of criticism good

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:53:17 2017 No.2819086 >>2819058 nobody was talking about the examples you said. people were talking about tracing poses from photos. also, tracing your own art for the sake of being faster can't be called tracing at all lol.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:54:53 2017 No.2819088

>>2819067
>And wasn't the very first Little Witch Academia a tech demo for new rotoscoping techniques? Kind of ironic.

Uh no, it wasn't. Why the fuck do you make up shit like this without at least doing a quick google search? The reason why the first LWA OVA had such a positive reception was because of the excellent hand drawn animation, the exact fucking opposite of rotoscoping.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 13:56:27 2017 No.2819090

>>2819080
>person B who lacks said experience
You are moving the goalposts and assuming things that weren't there in the first place.

If both A and B have exact same skills when it comes to simplification, line weight etc. The B will still save time by applying said skills on top of already existing photoreference instead of sketching it out first.

Yes it is a terrible practice when you are a newbie especially if you are retarded enough to omit still life/envirinment/perspective studies just because you think you can just trace shit, but you should not apply your struggling scrub logic to professionals.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 14:01:06 2017 No.2819099 >>2819067 >And wasn't the very first Little Witch Academia a tech demo for new rotoscoping techniques? lmao no

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 14:03:29 2017 No.2819102

>>2819090
The only possible situation where this holds true is when you somehow have a perfect photo reference that encompasses everything you need for a scene. That is very rare and usually, the moment you have to trace more than one photo, it becomes faster to just sketch it yourself to avoid perspective problems etc. Not sure why you seem so defensive, it's pretty obvious that you are the scrub here and you are projecting your own inability to quickly sketch something. Also, if you are tracing but making use of simplification, exaggeration, leaving out stuff, changing things around to improve the composition etc, then you are sketching too and you're basically just using the photo as a perspective grid, which would no longer be considered tracing anyway.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 14:04:02 2017 No.2819103 >>2819088 >>2819099 Well, sorry then, it wasn't a rhetorical question. But I swear I heard something about it using 3d back when the first short was released.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 14:04:46 2017 No.2819104

>>2819067
The point was to give an example of quality in that it takes similar amounts of time for a concept artist to use SHORTCUTs while a professional background painter can do something of better (subjective?) quality.

The entire crux of this seems to be the TIME aspect so I think its fitting to use examples of people that justify their use of shortcuts are really doing so to make up for their technical deficiency.

Judging by your comment I'm taking it you know next to nothing about about Little Witch, watch the documentary its interesting. It was part of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Animator_Training_Project with the point being to teach, you see them drawing the keyframes and the feedback they receive, I mean didn't you at least google it before talking about it and think its a tech demo? It's not my job to inform you on it so at least put in some fucking effort if you're going to try to discuss this.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 14:07:16 2017 No.2819109

>>2819102
>Also, if you are tracing but making use of simplification, exaggeration, leaving out stuff, changing things around to improve the composition etc, then you are sketching too and you're basically just using the photo as a perspective grid, which would no longer be considered tracing anyway.

Well then by that definition almost nothing mentioned in >>2817666 would qualify as tracing either.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 14:43:57 2017 No.2819146 >>2818644 just about everything.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 15:06:16 2017 No.2819171 >>2817739 Yes. Obviously?! You morons have so many self-imposed rules on yourselves, no wonder you never get anything done.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 15:07:34 2017 No.2819175 >>2817648 This. I had to pencil and ink 8pgs in 30hrs straight to get stuff in on a deadline recently, shit is not fucking easy and I definitely had to rush and eyeball some stuff

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 18:39:39 2017 No.2819429 >>2819171 a scrub saying moron to another scrub. you guys are so cute.

Anonymous Mon Jan 16 18:54:07 2017 No.2819449

>>2818933
He started posting on tumblr instead of blogspot and caught tumblritis. Look at all the excessive freckling, ugly faces, etc. That shit didn't start until he posted on tumblr.

I'm not saying tumblr is some kind of supernatural force that makes artists shitty but i'm not saying it's NOT either.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jan 16 19:11:27 2017 No.2819474 >>2819449 shut up retard

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 17 19:28:41 2017 No.2820912 >>2817639 When you pander to degenerates your quality doesn't matter. His hetero work is mostly good because it needs to be good or it won't stand out. But as soon as you add shortstacks, futa and fan-art, quality can go fuck itself and he knows it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 17 19:34:08 2017 No.2820922 >>2818647 >although ofc you don't improve when you trace You actually do and it's well known.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 17 19:37:14 2017 No.2820926 >>2818798 Bait. Of course /ic/ is too neurotic and self-centered to ignore it so go on getting butthurt by shitposting.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 17 19:41:16 2017 No.2820932 >>2818867 The argument is "the client and consumer don't care about filler panles so I should stop being a self-flagelating idiot and put my effort where it's most appreciated"

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 17 19:48:49 2017 No.2820941 >>2819080 >Implying Most of the time I see people saying "just trace that shit", it's artists with 20+ years of experience telling faggoty noobs to stop cucking themselves with irrelevancies.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 17 19:51:26 2017 No.2820951 >>2819171 That way they don't have to show their stuff. They're that kid that'd rather lie about not doing their homework than show their pathetic attempts to anyone. You can't lose if you don't compete, or something like that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 17 21:02:17 2017 No.2821015 >>2820912 Shortstacks are degenerate?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 17 21:11:22 2017 No.2821020 >>2817666 isn't he being a little disingenuous cause he's equating life drawing and using refs to tracing?

Anonymous Tue Jan 17 22:38:18 2017 No.2821080
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>>2820932
So i'm going to be more of an idiot but who do you mean by client/consumer and what do you mean by effort where its most appreciated?

People are diverse, there are those that do care and will consider it to have more worth.

Are you implying that not tracing is synonymous with self-flagelating? What if that is why you're appreciated? Effort is being expended in the collection of reference, this isn't just a netgain you're changing your approach to accomodate them.

Do you advocate for all artists regardless of skill to use any means to express themselves? Or past a certain arbitrary threshold? When they get a job? If a better artist is still faster than someone who has traced is their "effort" being misplaced? Would their consumer prefer quantity of product over quality?

Really doesn't it just boil down to - Will tracing produce the result faster? To which the answer is most defnitely not always yes.

Anonymous Wed Jan 18 07:00:19 2017 No.2821479

>>2821080
>tl:dr
Shut up fag, every second you spend on a meaningless detail in a filler panel instead of focusing on keyframes/spreads/climax panels is a waste of your patron's money and time.

Nobody gives a shit how long and hard you made your work on yourself with stupid, self-imposed handicaps.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 18 09:35:17 2017 No.2821586 >>2821479 Ok so speed is the key, and if i'm faster without tracing then tracing is pointless. Got it. I'm glad you resolved that issue.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 18 09:40:12 2017 No.2821589 >>2818954 holy...

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 18 09:43:13 2017 No.2821593 >>2820941 I dunno, in comics, most industry veterans who are known tracers are hacks who can hardly draw. Having 20 years of experience doesn't say much in that industry.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 18 11:28:05 2017 No.2821711 >>2818900 Please tell me you have more of these Anita background sketches

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 18 12:00:49 2017 No.2821747 File: 852 KB, 1280x1585, 242_akira.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2821711 These images are from Akira Club, if you want something similar then look for Cannabis Works also.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 18 12:02:37 2017 No.2821751 File: 982 KB, 1280x1585, 254_akira.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2821747

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 18 20:10:30 2017 No.2822296 >>2818933 is that doxy?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 18 20:14:11 2017 No.2822302 >>2822296 incase.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 18 21:46:31 2017 No.2822421 >>2821479 >a waste of your patron's money Please, please, please kys

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 18 21:54:57 2017 No.2822435 >>2817639 I had come here initially to try and defend Incase, but after further inspection I agree with OP. Those faces are horrid.

Anonymous Thu Jan 19 00:08:01 2017 No.2822621

>itt neurotic fags who put too much effort in shit people won't notice or care about
I've come to think it's an excuse for not making it "oh people don't appreciate my exquisite craftmanship! It's not that I never drew anything worth looking at because I was carefully rendering cracks in concrete..."

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 19 00:10:41 2017 No.2822628 >>2822621 >It's not that I never drew anything worth looking at because I was carefully rendering cracks in concrete..." You could have at least used a better example like how we draw boxes all day.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 19 00:41:00 2017 No.2822662 >>2817639 why does marco look like a girl

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