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2017/01/28: An issue regarding the front page of /jp/ has been fixed. Also, thanks to all who contacted us about sponsorship.

/ic/ - Artwork/Critique


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2810491 No.2810491 [Reply] [Original]

Because we should not have to make new threads or post in draw threads with our fundamental exercises.
Feel free to post even the smallest exercise you have done to show you are still trying, do not give up, make someone proud.

AVOID asking unrelated questions, there is a question thread for that.

RESIZE YOUR IMAGES TO ~1000 PIXELS:

#1)
>screenshot the image and post that instead (I recommend ShareX)

#2)
>change camera capture settings to something smaller

#3)
>send to computer and resize in MSPaint

→ →
There's a new (and cleaner) sticky in town! You can see it at:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uwaXKU7ev6Tw_or__o8ARpUb6r2rCZYJGqwSFV9AD98/edit#bookmark=id.15jx3pyuimvj

>Thread study: Try to draw/paint the opening or any other following images.
Feel free to post your original works as well if you're trash.

TRY TO BE MORE ACTIVE AND GIVE PEOPLE SOME FEEDBACK - many studies are left unreplied, which is a bit sad and can be quite demotivating for the people that try their best to improve, but are left directionless.

OLD THREAD: >>2808098

>> No.2810492
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2810492

>> No.2810493
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2810493

>> No.2810494
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2810494

>> No.2810495
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2810495

>> No.2810496
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2810496

>> No.2810497
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2810497

>> No.2810498
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2810498

>> No.2810499
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2810499

>> No.2810510
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2810510

>> No.2810511
File: 1.15 MB, 1287x1218, Sketch (6).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2810511

critique welcome, especially in regard to tablet technique as im still new to this (as well as color)
people always think i traced this lel

>> No.2810515
File: 4 KB, 128x128, avatar_30161_1458532159.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2810515

>> No.2810516

>>2810492

Jesus fuck... what???

Looks like a spooky invisible ghost is trying to tear his head off.

>> No.2810519

>>2810511
>people always think i traced this
it's because it looks like an ugly old school filter, you should change your style

>> No.2810521

>>2810511
It's shit. Sticky.

>> No.2810526
File: 1.00 MB, 751x950, smooshface.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2810526

was wanting to ink this, does it look alright?

>> No.2810528

>>2810521
nah, he can get some crit here i think
i dont have anything though

you've been on that one for weeks, polishing a turd doesnt help much, do many many more of these.

>> No.2810531

>>2810521
thought you would tell me why, but i guess useless insults help too :^)

>> No.2810535

>>2810511
you are polishing this turd too much

>> No.2810536

>>2810528
thanks!

>> No.2810537

>>2810535
i haven't worked on this since i first posted it, i've just posted it a lot because no one hear gives actual critique. they just tell me i traced it

>> No.2810543

>>2810537
It's because you're a shitty obvious troll. It's really sad and lame.

>> No.2810546

>>2810543
why reply to such obvious bait

just let it go

>> No.2810548

>>2810546
>>2810543
i literally haven't gotten any actual critique on this picture besides "lol you traced it" and "it looks like it went through a filter". i fail to see what i'm doing to troll

>> No.2810549

>>2810492
>dat neck
Good lord

>> No.2810572

Looking back on my pictures, everything I've made has been bad and I should feel bad.

>> No.2810576

>>2810572
You should feel good because art is one of those things that you'll fail no matter what, but if you keep trying, you'll eventually not fail anymore.

>> No.2810577

>>2810572
As long as you put in your truest, best effort and you learn on what you did wrong and how to fix it, it doesn't matter how good or bad it is. That will mean you're getting better.

>> No.2810580

>>2810576
>>2810577
But I smoke weed everyday so it's hard to stay motivated

>> No.2810583

>>2810580
Stop smoking weed
Problem solved

>> No.2810588

>>2810510
what the fuck

>> No.2810605

>>2810491
i want to be an environment artist. will i learn if i copy other artists environment work?

>> No.2810606

>>2810605
Yes.

>> No.2810607

>>2810605
if you copy enough, you'll get good at copying

>> No.2810621

>>2810607

than what should i do to get better at environment art?

>> No.2810622

>>2810621
Learn the fundamentals.

>> No.2810632

>>2810621
draw environment art

>> No.2810637
File: 18 KB, 243x195, 1483714793301.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2810637

>>2810510
niceu

>> No.2810641

>>2810511

Looks traced.

>> No.2810643

>>2810510
This level of skill yet used on such degeneracy

>> No.2810659
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2810659

>>2810643

And censored at that, as well, for shame.

>> No.2810670

>>2810511
Looks shit.

>> No.2810672
File: 280 KB, 709x587, deer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2810672

Am I understanding right that I have to learn copying before moving on to anything else? How good do I have to get before moving on?

>> No.2810673

>>2810672
Until you're a master to be honest

>> No.2810676

>>2810491

Wish we had another "model" dump, with lots of crazy full body poses and fore-shortening.

>> No.2810680

>>2810676
I mean, there is still a reference thread up. I just posted some twisty body poses there.

>> No.2810683

>>2810491
my picture is in the op, should i be ashamed or proud

>> No.2810685
File: 765 KB, 685x952, Photoshop_2017-01-10_00-57-55.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2810685

>> No.2810690

>>2810685
Someone explain to me the /beg/ in this.

>> No.2810692

>>2810683
What do you think?

>> No.2810695

>>2810683

Proud, usually it highlights the best of the last thread.

>> No.2810696

>>2810690
>a
i color picked the skin tones

>> No.2810699

>>2810673
I feel like I'm going blind when I try to really understand what I'm looking at. I didn't expect it to be so exhausting.

>> No.2810702
File: 155 KB, 1800x1200, Draw_Render.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2810702

What I have so far, gonna attempt to paint it next.

I know a lot is off, but gonna pump these out daily hopefully.

>> No.2810713

>>2810673
>>2810699
Also, what would a 'master' copy look like when i haven't touched any other fundamental skill? Should I be copying color too or just worry about light/shadow?

>> No.2810717

I got the Scott Robertson book but idk where to take it, it kinda jumps right into perspective but I'm still working on basic forms and drawing figures/faces

>> No.2810718

>>2810717
There's no rule that says you can't work on other stuff, anon.

>> No.2810719

>>2810718
True but it feels over my head, I might come back to it. Also he is using pen and paper and I'm using a tablet and krita but I doubt that really changes anything.

>> No.2810720

>>2810719
Everything new will feel over your head, don't you remember that feeling with figures and faces?

>> No.2810722

>>2810720
I still feel that way with figures and faces really I've only been doing it for 6 days now. I've been hitting 3 or more hours a day though and it's getting better.

>> No.2810733

>>2810702
pretty fucking good
not sure you are /beg/
line quality though

>> No.2810736

>>2810685
Head too small for that body

>> No.2810738

>>2810580
I smoke weed everyday TO stay motivated. The problem is in your head.

>> No.2810739

I have a question. If I were going to be an animator, what book would I start on?

>> No.2810740

>>2810739
It's not so much what book you should start with, you first need to learn how to draw.

>> No.2810746
File: 75 KB, 344x458, ic10.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2810746

>>2810495
kill me

>> No.2810784

what do i practice now

>> No.2810785

>>2810746
block in with a bigger, harder brush

>> No.2810786
File: 386 KB, 1050x724, paintandpencil.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2810786

So my biggest mistake with this was probably using printer paper... Albeit 28lb hammermill printer paper but still.

It ended up looking like I used feces as a pallet. Halp. How can I mix a more variated and higher contrast set of tones? I am working with solid watercolors and find they end up too concentrated or too washed out.

Should I just practice mixing paint all the time or what? Also I promise I will stop using printer paper...

Further sidenote does anyone know if it is safe to use Doc Martian concentrated watercolors with a kolinsky sable brush like W&N series 7?

>> No.2810787
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2810787

Tried to do jellyfish with ink. First one on the left was shit. Tentacles are too thick while the top doesn't have the right shape when it comes to cross hatching.

Right one is a bit better but the crosshatching is still shit with the shaping and shading. Texture looks different, though. I need to look at how someone could do something that glows or is see through with ink.

>> No.2810788
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2810788

>>2810786
I should have included the reference. it was SUPER tiny from a old encyclopedia.

>> No.2810794

>>2810786

Watercolour is the most unforgiving of paints and the hardest to learn. Maybe try working in gouache a little before tackling watercolour, it's a nice entry medium and it will teach you economy which is very important in working with watercolour too.right now there is not a whole lot of advice i can give, since you mainly seem to need to just paint more

>> No.2810801
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2810801

>>2810787
>try to figure out how professionals do see through objects with pen and ink and see this

jesus fuck, i'm never gonna make it

>> No.2810807

>>2810801
Instead of seeing 3D, they see a flat image. 3D is distracting you from what's actually being seen.

>> No.2810809
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2810809

>>2810788
>predators on the ground

>> No.2810811

>>2810807
awful advice here

>> No.2810814

>>2810807
It's not actually distracting it's just the technique and the strokes that fucks with me when it comes to pen and ink. There's just a lot of shit I have to learn.

Every time I look at something that a professional made, I always go "goddamit fuck why didn't i think of doing that" because their strokes are always so on point.

>> No.2810816

>>2810809
>and in trees.

>> No.2810852

im not sure what to do next, shall i just post all my work for the past few weeks and let you decide?

>> No.2810853

>>2810852
you can put it in an imgur album as to not shit up the thread too much

>> No.2810900

>>2810591
I might be blind and retarded, but should that really stop me from trying?

>> No.2810902
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2810902

>>2810090
>>2809876
updated; bigger ear, smaller nose and tried to fix the cheekbone. Tried to spend a lot of time at the start with construction but I still fucked it up

>> No.2810909
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2810909

should i finish it, or something is wrong with it,,,critic plz

>> No.2810923
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2810923

fuck the sun!

>> No.2810929

all I want to do is be able to draw good porn.

that's all I want.

why am I so shit at drawing?

I know what I want things to look like, but my hands are retarded and can't do it

>> No.2810932

>>2810929
Just imagine you are baby. Can baby draw? No. You must wait years so you can draw like toddler, then child, then adult.

>> No.2810934

>>2810932
So, seeing as how I'm 23, I won't be decent at drawing until I'm in my mid thirities at the earliest?

>> No.2810936

>>2810934
If you apply yourself and work HARD you'll be able to draw "good porn" in two to three years. Worrying about the time it takes is only detrimental.

>> No.2810950
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2810950

its been years since i did a figure study of any kind. am i on the right track, or did i fuck up horribly and bung up my learning experience?

>> No.2810955

i have a similar problem that >>2810950 has when it comes to attaching limbs to the trunk. best way to fix?

>> No.2810965

>>2810955
i would wager the answer is to draw longer than necessary, and then delete what you dont need, but thats just a guess.

>> No.2810987
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2810987

i'm lost desu. not really sure what to do.
heres everything from the last couple of days.

>> No.2810991

>>2810987
Well you are practicing gesture now and it's a bit stiff but that's fine, you are still at the stage where everything is stiff and boring but you'll get over it.
Why not take some the ones you like and try to draw them again, but this time try to think how you could make this better and think of it as someone else's drawing that you are fixing.
Also remember not to burn yourself out on studies, draw something that you are interested in or just doodle a bit to wind down, just draw something that is fun and keep it to yourself.
You could also do some individual studies on parts of the body how things work, like how does the spine work, what angle it can bend and can't bend, same goes with pretty much everything, you have to figure out how the stuff works.

>> No.2810996

>>2810991
>try to think how you could make this better and think of it as someone else's drawing that you are fixing
not sure how to do this. could you for instance tell me which one would be good to change, and what changes one would make? so i can see an example

i take a break and draw cathedrals/buildings/vehicles/etc sometimes for a wind down

i'll do those individual studies, i am >>2810955 so i'll work on shoulder connections i think. any other ones you can spot? any other things you think it might be good for me to practise?

and thanks for the thoughtful advice. i dont often get replies here.

>> No.2811014

>>2810643
>>2810659

In my opinion, i think hentai artist are the prostitutes of the art world.

So don't judge, he needed the money.

>> No.2811018

>>2810786
For watercolor you have to work on a heavy (80lb minimum) paper or it looks like shit for various reasons.

To fix your color problem, use a cool tone like ultramarine to desaturate your browns and take them into darker value ranges. http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/paletfs.html
When in doubt, desaturate the fuck out of everything.

You're probably mixing your paints wrong so here it is again even though you've most likely been here. http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/tech14.html#panpaints
Every paint dilutes differently and some are opaque, so you have to learn what they all do as they dilute and dry.

Your big problem is that you didn't leave any lighter values anywhere. There's a ton of ways to go about it, but the way I work is that I map out my lights, mids and dark areas and do the washes for the mid, leaving the lights white, then work darks. Then I just tint some spots for the lights and leave most of the paper showing because it's watercolor and you can do that. Starting out, it's really hard to get very light and very dark values not only because you haven't learned the medium, but also because you have to work ass backwards from everything else. You can't judge your lights until you have the darks down and you can only push darks so far before breaking out ink and gouache. At least when you're starting out.

>> No.2811019
File: 363 KB, 823x986, bvcgfdcfdg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811019

>>2810996
Sorry i haven't drawn anything yet so it's shit and the lines are bit chicken scratchy, what i mean is that you want to push the gesture, almost so its ridiculous but not so that you break the spine or anything.
You want to think about what goes in front and what goes behind, think how limbs connect to the torso and so on, you've got to figure stuff out for yourself as well,
as an artist you have to learn how to understand how things work or it will look weird and unnatural.

So take a different drawing that i choose and try to really push the gesture, try to think what kind of feeling the figure is trying to convey and you have to exaggerate that feeling, i hope this make's some sort of sense to you.
It's pretty frustrating to understand how things work but the more we understand it, the better we can draw it.

>> No.2811025

>>2811019
its a slightly different pose (see the hip angle)
i think ill try gesture a bit but i suppose im looking for a strong weakness to work on. maybe noob gains are over for me. thanks for helping.

>> No.2811027

>>2811025
It doesn't matter if the pose changes a bit and you are still at that noob level where you don't have one thing to work on, you just have to keep doing the things you do and you will get better.
Here's a little secret, you never feel like you've left the noob zone, you will always feel like ''well it looks like something but it's still shit''.
git gud my friend

>> No.2811028
File: 151 KB, 707x1000, rhythm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811028

>>2811019
>Needs more rhythm.

>> No.2811029

>>2811028
Yeah sorry it wasn't that good drawing, it's my first of the day, i guess i'll do some gestures today.

>> No.2811033

>>2811028
ugh, i wanted to participate but i seem to have lost my skill at gesture. kill me

>> No.2811034

>>2811029
It's good and has rhythm, that's what I copied from, but the foundation of a gesture drawing isn't the forms but the way they flow and draw the eye. It's capturing the most essential aspects of position and motion. It looks like anon is is just drawing mannequins instead of capturing form over gesture.

>>2811025
>>2811033
Try Gesture Drawing vol 3
https://mega.nz/#F!LRVnyT7Z!nZJcFAp81iL4Bz1WsUTpIQ
That and Vilppu videos cover two very different sides of gesture.

>> No.2811035
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2811035

>>2810493
not even close.

>> No.2811047
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2811047

probably gibberish question
is m/asterchan is good resource? for study figure
i'm afraid of might get shot and bullying.

but it was really good resource

>> No.2811048

>>2810902
Anon, I think it might be time to drop this one. it's just a study. Time to do a new one. After you've got more mileage, you can come back to this one later if you really want to.

>> No.2811053

How do I git gud at measuring? Do I just keep grinding until I get it right every time?

>> No.2811056

>>2811053
dorian iten accuracy is p good

>> No.2811058
File: 137 KB, 1021x1361, 10012017-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811058

>>2811035
forget to resize

>> No.2811059

What is the very first thing someone should start with if they've never attempted to draw anything other than kiddy doodles before? Cubes in weird angles? Also are you supposed to use rules for the cubes, or be able to draw them without support?

>> No.2811067

>>2811059
Read the sticky, it's there for a reason, you fucktard.

>> No.2811068

>>2811059
Basic shapes(ball,boxes,cylinders etc)
Proportions, there are tons of tutorials about proportions, start with the basics as in how tall is a dude and how long are the arms and legs.
Perspective just so much that you understand what it is, also plenty of tutorials about it
Gesture drawing, just do some stick men in weird poses but keep in mind proportions and perspective while doing it.
Anatomy, start with the bones like skulls and shit
after that get into shit like where does things go on the stick figure and how to draw specific body parts, eyes, ears, dicks, hands, noses, etc...
and take your time to understand each of these basic fundamentals, every artists goes back to these studies to refine their knowledge of the ''rules''
Doodle for fun in between these studies and try to make use of the knowledge you've learned on your studies.
Oh and copy shit that you like, just don't trace or post them online because no one cares that you copied some anime waifus.
Have fun

>> No.2811074
File: 376 KB, 1790x810, tard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811074

>>2810950
Your measurements suck ass.

>> No.2811075

>>2811067
>Reading anything other than posts on 4chan
KEK
>>2811068
Thanks, will do.

>> No.2811080

>>2811075
KILL
YOUR
SELF
SENPAI

>> No.2811100

Is there a form of gesture drawing that involves boxes? Every time I try to draw something solely with gesture lines like >>2811019 or some shit my entire figure just kinda crumples into itself (hard to explain), but every time I block out the upper torso and pelvis and then add the gesture lines the torso seems to work our fine. Are there any books that teach a gesture method like this or should I try to learn the standard villpu/proko gesture method?

>> No.2811107

>>2811100

Draw from life first and polish the fundamentals, or check out Loomis, I never personally went through all of the Loomis book, as I was pretty decent already at drawing from life and had drawn my fair share of irl nude models and copying anatomy online from nude models.

Loomis breaks things down last I checked into sharp edges, boxes and rectangles. Check that out, it's a meme, but it's a decent approach to anatomy too from what I have heard.

>> No.2811108

>>2811018
>http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/paletfs.html
gold. thanks senpai!

>> No.2811113
File: 154 KB, 478x751, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811113

alright a brand new day, time to paint
>tfw you draw on the background layer accidently

>> No.2811117

>>2811108
No problem. Stick to the velazquez palette and you will understand the subtlest and most difficult parts of working with hue, value and saturation without being bored to death or overwhelmed. When you can make the illusion of a bright red out of stale piss and ultramarine, it's time to move on. It's still my favorite palette, especially for working out problems.

>> No.2811160

>>2810702
did you construct this?

>> No.2811165

>>2811160

No, I drew it freehand, by just looking to the left of the image, I drew from bottom to top, starting with the box, to the the feet, legs, then onto the hand on the left of the image and so on and so forth. I did not use any construction lines for this.

>> No.2811170

>>2810511
ITS TRACED

post the ref if you say otherwise. No ref? it's traced.

>> No.2811171

How do you use construction when drawing from reference? Is it enough to just make some lines to see the relations?
Let's say I want to copy a face, do I have to use the Loomis method or just lines to see how the features are placed compared to the others?

>> No.2811177
File: 89 KB, 750x1125, girl1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811177

>>2810493
FUCK. THIS. ;_;

>> No.2811180

>>2811177
I think it's the eyes and the shading?

>> No.2811182

>>2811171

You usually use constructions lines when: it's super detailed, or you are drawing from imagination and you want a certain composition and/or focal point or you are first learning to draw anatomy, is when you should mainly use construction lines.

For anatomy whilst learning construction lines, it would be better to understand the measurements of natural anatomy, rather than constructing the image as such.

>do I have to use the Loomis method or just lines to see how the features are placed compared to the others?

Both, if you are still learning, but I would say the later would help you more. Usually I only use a cross sometimes or very VERY simple line gestures for construction if I do need it, like the cross image/line on a face.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_proportions

>https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Da_Vinci_Vitruve_Luc_Viatour.jpg

But, if you are drawing freehanded from a reference for a personal study, you should not really be using any construction lines and instead focus on your own natural visual observational measurement skills.

I don't know if you are drawing from IRL or just from a tablet with computer images of models, but drawing from life with pen, pencil and paper will help a lot. The skills of drawing from IRL transfer much easier over, than vice versa with a tablet. That, and you will not always be in places to practice with your computer and tablet, where a simple sketchbook and pen and pencil would be better suited.

Drawing from life: drawing whilst on a hiking or camping trip, urban areas, coffee shop (you can do both here I suppose), draw a park, a forest, shrubbery, flowers, leaves, nature, animals at the zoo, drawing gestures of people on a bus, etc.

>> No.2811185

>>2811171
Everyone does it differently. Painters often block out the basic shapes for the size of the head and shape of the face to make it match the reference and then add detail. Others use the constructive method to mark the planes that are there so you can see if everything on the page is in the right place and make sure it's roughly symmetrical.

>>2811180
It's the model. >>2811177 captured the likeness but it's such a retarded expression that it overrides what is actually there. Anon needs to start over, measure more carefully and compare with the reference more often, but the likeness is there.

>> No.2811188

>>2811074
bro tier critique!

>> No.2811191

Since im still a beginner in Rendering, and been still struggling with it. I wanna Ask since i have seen it somewhere.
Would it be better for me if i would stop using my Soft Round Brush, and only use my hard round brush?

>> No.2811209

>tfw do a figure in charcoal
>completely fuck up because can't value control
Holy shit, do I just go darker then erase to fix it? There's fucking completely different shades everywhere. This is vine by the way. I've got compress too.

>> No.2811219

>>2811177
good effort.

>> No.2811222

>>2811047
It's hard to find refs for that specific thing anywhere else

I say take advantage of the resources that you have if you want to go down that depraved route

>> No.2811228

>>2810695
nope I've seen some crazy work in the last thread. This is not even close to be the best. Probably because it's using the thread ref and somewhat close to the ref.

>> No.2811229
File: 268 KB, 392x610, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811229

tried rgb slider, annoying

>> No.2811234

>>2811191
Do you really think that people render with only soft brush?

Check out ctrl paint video on rendering. Not my type of technique but try it out if you don't have any idea how to render.

>> No.2811261
File: 163 KB, 1603x1130, rsz_20170110_215506.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811261

These are some studies I made some days ago. The heads are some badly first try at doing the Huston method.
The body on the right is a drawing I made without reference nor actual construction.
Now, I know they are shit, but seeing my level what book or course would you suggest me?

>> No.2811262
File: 68 KB, 720x719, girl 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811262

>>2811170
here you go :)

>> No.2811265
File: 83 KB, 319x526, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811265

again

>> No.2811272
File: 42 KB, 736x283, ee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811272

I had no idea what i was doing, so here you have it.

>> No.2811273
File: 1.54 MB, 3264x2448, IMG_2941.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811273

How do I lernd draw gud

>> No.2811274
File: 153 KB, 461x697, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811274

fuck i can't even measure angles

>> No.2811280

>>2811273
rotate
resize
sticky
fuckass

>> No.2811287

>>2811035
>>2811058

Her head is tilted up. There's foreshortening going on. The nose to chin is wider than nose to brow ridge.

>> No.2811312

>>2811280
No.

>> No.2811313

>>2811262
/ic/ btfo

>> No.2811317

>>2811313
for real, so many say it's traced for some reason. clearly i fucked up my lines, kinda hard to say it's traced now. oh well no one is gonna admit their wrong accusations so i'll go uncritiqued i guess :/

>> No.2811323
File: 294 KB, 1374x1165, gesture 02.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811323

>>2811019
Did some gestures, ones with the X is from a reference.

>> No.2811328

>>2811323
these are pretty good

>> No.2811332

>>2811328
thank

>> No.2811347

>>2810511

Doesn't look like you're using any form of construction.

It looks like a bad attempt at vector. Seriously, it looks like you posterized the ref, traced the contour and color pick.

Learn construction, forget the color and do value rendering. Get the form to look 3D. Practice this then redo the image and you'll get your proper critique. There's no technique whatsoever to critique on right now.

>> No.2811348

>>2811312
No to rotate
No to resize
No to sticky

Well, you can still fuckass.

>> No.2811357

>>2811018
>http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/tech14.html#panpaints


I am the shrew painter, Thanks so much for this critique! I actually do have an assortment of acrylic ink and some matching brushes I could use. (That being said I think I will learn more if I focus on just using watercolor.)

The desaturation with ultramarine is really great advice! I am going to do another painting tonight! This time with much less pencil work and let the paint do the definition for me.

Thanks!

>> No.2811360

>>2811347
THANK you for being helpful. Seriously, first actual comment on what to do I've gotten in my 3 times posting this. I'll work on that stuff next

>> No.2811364
File: 48 KB, 466x366, new.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811364

..a-am I feeling it yet?

>> No.2811371

>>2811364
Very nice anon, you're on the right track.

Go do 100 more

>> No.2811378

>>2811371
Yes, sir!
Good gains to you, too.

>> No.2811438
File: 457 KB, 984x1388, New Doc 16_16.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811438

>>2810493
This definitely kicked my ass. But even with it being bad, at least I've finally realised the importance of construction, shit's a lot harder if its not some straight forward angle. You really get to see how wonky and fucked it all is once you've taken a photo so I think I need to take a step back during the process to see it earlier.

>> No.2811446

>>2811074
thanks bro, thats more than i could have hoped for

>> No.2811447
File: 41 KB, 488x488, 10-thomas-pynchon.w529.h529.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811447

>>2811438
I get a tommy p vibe from yours.

>> No.2811467

>>2810499
>>2810498
>>2810497
Why does anyone even post reference images??
I thought drawing from photos was something artists are not suppose to do.

>> No.2811468
File: 92 KB, 441x663, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811468

imagination shit

>> No.2811478

>>2811467
weakest bait i've ever seen

>> No.2811492

>>2811467
>tfw can draw from life but can't draw from a photo at all
What is wrong with me

>> No.2811499

Decided I'd try some of the Scott Robertson stuff anyway today on day7 but I don't have a ruler and I'm using tablet. Is there a way to do precise drawn lines in krita?

>> No.2811502

>>2811499
>needing a ruler
Just do it free hand pal

>> No.2811504

>>2811502
It doesn't look that good that way but o-ok.

>> No.2811505

>>2811499
hold down shift.

>> No.2811509
File: 396 KB, 1242x1775, IMG_2945.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811509

>This piece of shit took 3 hours.
How many years til I git gud? I started today.

>> No.2811513

>>2811505
That makes my pen wider maybe that's a photoshop thing fampai

>> No.2811514

>>2811509
if gud means pro, 4 years if you draw for >8 hours each day

>> No.2811517

>>2811509
I've polished a turd for 100+ hours before

>> No.2811522

>>2811514
So essentially going to uni as an art major.

>> No.2811523

>>2811509
>tfw started a week ago but anon is already better than you
I-is this what you call talent

>> No.2811538

>>2811522
If binge drinking and tripping acid counts as drawing, then yes.

>> No.2811539

>>2811522
yeah, but actually practise instead of going to lectures.

>> No.2811544

>>2811539
>implying /beg/inners wouldn't benefit from information being fed to them

>> No.2811547

>>2811523
I started a week ago too you just gotta think of yourself and git gud fampai there's always gonna be someone better

>> No.2811548

>>2811544
Spring semester is coming, I'll take pictures of all the stoner fingerpaintings.

>> No.2811562

I know this is a general question, but I didn't see a current questions thread...
I'm a beginner trying to ditch symbol drawing. Will all those exercises like drawing with the ref upside down eventually help me to learn to see past the symbols when things are right side up?

>> No.2811564

>>2811562
The book that exercise comes from explains the results and why they happen.

Although tl;dr no but it's a start

>> No.2811576

What do you do when your fingers are sore from too much drawing? Do you just continue on and then eventually get used to it? Or do I got to rest before I mess my hand up even more.

>> No.2811586

>>2811576
Same thing here. I hold my pencil a bit strange and when I'm writing or drawing my pinky or ring finger will start hurting. Usually, I'll often have to switch a ring to my pinky in order to not have my fingers touching

>> No.2811594

>>2811576
part of it might be from holding the pencil too tight or squeezing and part is because you're not used to it, just stretch and take breaks every now and then, go for a little walk maybe

>> No.2811595

>>2811562
It's supposed to familiarize you with how it feels to draw what you see and not what you think you see.

>> No.2811596

>>2811595
I doubt beginners would be able to tell the difference from just doing it once.

>> No.2811598

>>2811596
Then do it multiple times

>> No.2811618

>>2811523
Are you seriously fuckingg jelly of >>2811509 ??

Anyone can get better than that in a day

>> No.2811619

>>2811618
>Anyone can get better than that in a day
Teach me how to then.
My portraits still look like ass.

>> No.2811626

>>2811619
Keys to Drawing, measurements chapter, you can easily read it in 30 minutes and then use your new knowledge to make a way better portrait.

>> No.2811632

>>2811626
>saying it like measuring isn't something I already know how to do but suck at getting exactly correct
Anon please.

>> No.2811636
File: 234 KB, 1030x1100, Portrait5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811636

>>2810494
please critique

>> No.2811641

>>2811618
Jebaited

>> No.2811645

>>2811619
Take your time, measure your proportions, and bam you're instantly better than that other guy

>> No.2811654

>>2811636
her eyes are a bit too asymmetrical, just put the right eye (from your perspective) slightly down. The jaw's right side seems a bit too curved compared to the photo and the left side looks chubby. Overall, the shadows are nicely summed up on the chest and arms. Try making darker values for the right side of the ribs (beneath the breasts).

I'm not amazing great at critique, but those are some problems I saw

>> No.2811662

>>2811261
Someone?

>> No.2811665

>Finish a drawing.
>The very same moment I stop drawing and look at what I did I notice multiple mistakes I didn't even realize I was making.

fuck

>> No.2811668

>>2811665
Same, I level up the instant I finish my drawings too.

>> No.2811669

I only wanna show off a base sketch. I have a /decent/ grasp of undefined muscles, but everything looks stiff. I feel like the only thing holding me back is bad rendering since I constantly forget about lighting

>>2811665
Now pick up the pen and start all over again! its very good to be observational and hypercritical of yourself while drawing.

>> No.2811670
File: 2.03 MB, 1782x1944, Ojos.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811670

I'm trying here.

>> No.2811678

Any good tutorials on shading? My construction is getting consistently better but my shading fucking sucks and whenever I get it right it's mostly just luck.
What kind of pencil is recommended? Currently using H2 but I have no idea how much of a difference changing the hardness will make.

>> No.2811683

>>2811678
YouTube man. YouTube.

Graphite pencil and colored pencils work different but the amount of clay vs color medium in each varies the hardness of the pencils. For regular pencils it's graphite vs clay.

Get a good set of pencils. Spend about 20 to 40 dollars. Derwent and Faber Castell make some nice sets. Get blending nubs or use a paper towel on the cheap and roll it up tight wet and let it dry.

You need pencils in the far H spectrum and the far B spectrum. You can't do it all perfectly with a 2B pencil.

>> No.2811684

>>2811670
I think they're neat, but some eyes are looking a lil creepy; is that your intention? I like the last two eyes on the left column, they're interesting to look at since you implied the round form very well with your use of slightly dark values at certain corners of the eye. I feel if you work on that more, they will be much better.

>>2811678
For extreme dark values, use soft pencils such 2B-6B but I personally find it best to use the entire range of graphite pencils--given my subject would look like it'd use that. If your subject is glassy and transparent with almost shadows and its form is only hinted by the objects it distorts, focus the values of the distorted objects (with soft pencils). Your range of pencils should be based on your subject, that's just how I work typically.

>> No.2811690
File: 184 KB, 904x1060, Sketch2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811690

I'm still working on it. But critique would be nice.

>> No.2811692

>>2811690
sticky

>> No.2811697

>>2811692
I've read the sticky. I don't see how it pertains?

>> No.2811698

>>2811697
shorthand for its awful try again after reading the sticky and trying the shit there again

>> No.2811700

>>2811690
it's pretty obvious you traced this

>> No.2811701

>>2811690
Image is a bit small but w/e, I feel the way you drew the hair feels pretty stiff and doesn't look like how light n airy hair looks, it looks very clumped. I would suggest studying eyes overall, the folds and the eyelid itself are essential for an eye to look normal. The hand looks neat.

Try doing more sweep, smooth motions with your sketch so it looks neater overall and make it feel more relaxed n less tense,

>> No.2811702

>>2811684
>>2811683
I see, thanks.
I thought I could get by with only a pencil if I learned how to use it correctly but apparently I'm gonna have to stop being so cheap.

>> No.2811706

>>2811702
Artists still do amazing stuff with 2B though, makes me jealous that I have the same tool but it's trash. Feels too light all the time.

>> No.2811707

>>2811702
A regular HB pencil can go far, but nothing that can help you cross from being a novice to an intermediate artist. You can only navigate this if you learn the pencil and cater towards it, using it for subjects appropriate for it.

>> No.2811709

>>2811707
>subjects
Such as?

>> No.2811722

>>2811690

Original image... where is it.

>> No.2811724

>>2811690
You need to post your source anon. Just throwing a drawing on here does nothing for us so we can't help you.

>> No.2811728

>>2811709
He's just art babbling like techno babble in star trek. You can draw anything in graphite. If someone says otherwise they are retarded.

>> No.2811734
File: 139 KB, 960x1280, 14138843_548986285299333_5845410454465265167_o.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811734

>>2811722
not him but it may be this

>> No.2811735
File: 1023 KB, 738x1103, trace.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811735

Is it cheating if I trace the outline of a face in MS paint so I can see better what the angles and proportions are? Or is that just stupid and there's a better way?

>> No.2811736

>>2811734
traced as fuck

>> No.2811739

>>2811735
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzDGO0LssEM&index=8&list=PLtG4P3lq8RHFRfdirLJKk822fwOxR6Zn6

>> No.2811740

christ this is bleak, all this practise and im still shit.
im considering going for the full 6 hours a day up from my normal 4. i want to be sure that i have something to practise for all of that time. its correct to strengthen your weakest suit right? currently on my menu is gestures, vehicles and some figures. what will i do once i move on from that? even with my 4 hours i often find myself struggling to think of something to practise. is there some kind of mega list of things to do that i can scroll through and tick off?

>> No.2811743
File: 122 KB, 960x1280, Trace_Over.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811743

>>2811735

Yes... it is cheating... because you don't learn from natural visual observation, you use a a literal crutch to helo you draw.

The end goal at the moment is not get a perfect end product, but to learn, to LEARN from your failures, we are not here to bash you, unlike this obvious trace over.

>>2811690
>>2811734

(Not trying to shit on you MAGA trace over anon, just learn the proper way first, tracing does very little help for you, especially when it comes to the self-test time, you falter)

If you are having drawing the face, try and go back to some basic exercises, continuous counter line exercises, draw your own shoes, a pile of cups, etc. to help increase your visual observational skills.

>> No.2811744

>>2811743
what a worthless faggot

>c-critique pls
lmao read a book nigga

>> No.2811745

>>2811743

>http://www.studentartguide.com/articles/line-drawings

Try these exercises out, and do a lot of them each.

>> No.2811746

>>2811735
I would say give it ago first then trace it

>> No.2811749

>>2811743
still to this day i don't understand the logic behind tracing

look at his drawing, there's absolutely no understanding of form

>> No.2811753
File: 121 KB, 1280x720, Bloo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811753

>>2811744
>>2811749
>>2811749

I guess I fell for the bait, oh well.

>> No.2811756

>>2811740
Honestly if you suck at all of those, your weakest suit is your eyes. Train those first and foremost.

>> No.2811763

>>2811753
Easy to tell. Look at that cap - this retard can't even draw a single consistent line and yet he can capture a complex shape in perspective? Look at that pathetic chicken scratch to make one end of the lid meet the other.

>> No.2811765

>>2811740
just draw for fun

>> No.2811766

>>2811765
But /ic/ said...

>> No.2811767

>>2811287
thanks for the crit anon.

>> No.2811771

This guy and his weird sailboat face technique

>> No.2811772

>>2811771
>sailboat face technique
The what?

>> No.2811773

>>2811772
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T7cDY7YDsg

I'm up to his stuff on the neck it's interesting

>> No.2811774

>>2811772
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T7cDY7YDsg

>> No.2811775

I spend more time procrastinating drawing than actually drawing. I'm so scared of making a bad picture after putting a lot of effort in.

>> No.2811776

>>2811775
I did too and still do, the truth is, you'll make a bad picture no matter what because you suck, so just do it.

>> No.2811782
File: 328 KB, 430x775, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811782

>>2811229
>>2811468
wip trying to apply the study

>> No.2811787

>>2811775
>scared of making a bad picture

lmao literally why? if you can't accept that you're not gonna be good for a while (and that you need to use this time to get good) you aren't gonna make it

>> No.2811792

>>2811739
OK, so I can kind of use this technique to measure out the proportions, but putting down four/five lines of equal spacing is a bit tricky for me. Am I allowed using a ruler for that or should I eyeball it?

>> No.2811793

I still got 2 hours of this left but Idk if I like the method.

>> No.2811796
File: 458 KB, 2048x2048, untitled (20).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811796

>>2810497
wip, thoughts? trying to work on tones

>> No.2811798
File: 135 KB, 1800x1200, Draw_Render_WIP.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811798

>>2810491

When painting, this is more geared towards digital painting, do you want to put down the darkest or the lightest tones, color, and hues first? And how would I arrange the layers, or would I simply paint in one giant canvas, with a brush that just paints over it, or slightly blends?

>> No.2811801

>>2811798
Always best to identify and apply the darkest and lightest colors first. Helps give reference to the rest

>> No.2811803
File: 160 KB, 2810x800, 1457818154853.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811803

>>2811798

>> No.2811841

>>2811801

Ah, I remembered I was told once that I had to start with the lightest colors and work my way down to the darkest colors, thanks for that info.

>>2811803

Thanks, that helps, is there anymore of the tutorial?

>> No.2811859

>>2811766
/ic/ say a lot of things. Their critique is on point and no bullshit. But slow down and learn to enjoy it. If you can't enjoy it your not gonna make it.

>> No.2811872
File: 165 KB, 699x1000, IMG_20170111_013558.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811872

Used the measuring technique from >>2811739 on >>2810493

Besides the hair (idk wtf to do there), what other reasons is my drawing a terrible piece of crap?

>> No.2811875

>>2811872
>Besides the hair (idk wtf to do there), what other reasons is my drawing a terrible piece of crap?

You didn't spend very much time on it.

>> No.2811879

>>2811875
I spent a lot of time measuring everything out. Sorry it still sucks.

>> No.2811880

>>2811879
Measuring is great for proportions, but details are still details.

>> No.2811890

>>2811880
Fair enough. What should I do to improve my detailing?

>> No.2811893

>>2811890
Render.

>> No.2811896

>>2811740
how long have you been doing 4 hours?

if you've been doing it only a short while then no shit it hasnt taken over yet

this isn't something that happens overnight you might be disheartened but youll only see real results if you keep at it

>> No.2811899

>>2811896
almost 6 months

>> No.2811900

>>2811899
Post your work so we know you're not holding too high of standards.

>> No.2811902

>>2811900

i am >>2810987

>> No.2811903

>>2811902
Doesn't look as bad as you seem to think it does, keep at it and push into your uncomfortable subjects.

>> No.2811906

>>2811902
bodies look ok, head construction is janky. You should really move on from just doing construction though, actually finish something.

>> No.2811910
File: 1.27 MB, 1500x1800, D&D.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811910

I don't do digital art at all, but here is an attempt at my d&d character

>> No.2811912

>>2811903
holy fuck im relieved you said that
that being said i still feel unsatisfied with my current progress. perhaps it was motivation not anxiety i was feeling.

>>2811906
i normally draw cute girls so this was just my making sure i could still do masculine proportions. thanks for the advice though. as for moving on from construction. i feel like its still imperfect and i should nail this fundamental before moving on


i think i need some kind of list of things do practise, so i can be sure i always have something on my training menu.

>> No.2811921
File: 158 KB, 698x1000, IMG_20170111_023648.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811921

>>2811893
Tried rendering, fucked it up worse somehow. Fuck I'm stupid.

>> No.2811927

>>2810492
>>2810549
>>2810516
>when you accidentally glue your fingers together

>> No.2811931

>>2811910
looks like the murders furries, ass fucks them, then makes clothes and weapons out of them.

>> No.2811934
File: 247 KB, 805x873, Untitled-2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2811934

I didn't really have an aim for this one besides just doodling.

>> No.2811936

is it recommended/necessary to start gesture with the head?

>> No.2811938

>tfw I notice that the eye is too far to the right, but I move it and none of the other proportions make sense
feels bad man

>> No.2811939

>>2811938
delete the whole thing and start over.

>> No.2811941

Question for y'all

Can depth be achieved only with lineart? or do you need SOME shading to make it have some kind of volume?

How to practice cleaner, smoother lines? just keep practicing strokes with your arm?

>> No.2811942

>>2811939
But I drew it on paper. Should I throw it away? What if the garbage man sees it and laughs at me?

>> No.2811945

>>2811938
>tfw notice this after having rendered it
Sometimes you just fucking leave it as long as you know it's there
Some things just don't need to be done over again, it's quite literally a waste of time

>> No.2811947

>>2811936
no rules

only tools

>> No.2811955

>>2811670
I love the deep dark shades you did. Are you using a harder pencil or something?

>> No.2811985

>>2811912
At the end of the day you need to relax and try to enjoy drawing. If you're just in it to grind grind grind you might just burn out. You can have fun while still seriously practicing.

>> No.2811988

>>2811985
i get enjoyment from increasing a skill. its a discipline to me.

i am manly man. no draw for pleasure. only train.

>> No.2812002
File: 1.63 MB, 2448x3264, IMG_2515.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812002

rate my rielly method?

>> No.2812025
File: 196 KB, 1600x1200, Sketch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812025

This is literally the first thing I've drawn in almost 10 years. Please be gentle with me.

>> No.2812046

whats best construction? bean, boxes, simplified skeletons or other?

what construction is best for gesture?

>> No.2812064

>>2812025
why are u avoiding the head angle?

>> No.2812074

>>2811684
I tried to choose diferents expressions and directions of the eyes so it turns out a little creepy, I like it though. I will work on it, thanks anon!

>>2811955
I just used a HB pencil, i started with a low pressure and build the shade layer by layer.

>> No.2812082
File: 171 KB, 1062x1393, IMG_0323.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812082

>> No.2812083

>>2812064

I only just realized now when you pointed it out.

>> No.2812179
File: 1017 KB, 1000x1286, image.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812179

>> No.2812181
File: 157 KB, 804x1023, 1483509784493.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812181

>>2812179

>> No.2812197

>>2811921
>fucked it up worse somehow. Fuck I'm stupid.

IMO it looks better, but you should really ditch the self defeating attitude. It's unbecoming, and won't get you far (in art or in life).

>> No.2812202
File: 975 KB, 752x847, crapcropped.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812202

>>2812181
one schmillion hours in paint.net, I could not resist

>> No.2812250
File: 122 KB, 738x1000, IMG_20170111_113600.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812250

>>2810493
Sorry, I just feel like a huge idiot when I spend over an hour measuring shit out, only to get everything wrong anyway. I spent two hours fucking around trying to get pic related to look OK, but I can't.

>> No.2812254

>>2812250
Meant to quote this post >>2812197 instead

>> No.2812255

>>2812250
Jesus christ you made her look like a man.

>> No.2812263

>>2812250
try to construct it more using basic shapes

>> No.2812267
File: 900 KB, 1169x714, fsafasfaf.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812267

eh allright

>> No.2812271

>>2812250
>Sorry, I just feel like a huge idiot when I spend over an hour measuring shit out, only to get everything wrong anyway.

Ok friend, next time you are going to do art for two hours you are not allowed to use an eraser and you are not allowed to spend more than 15 minutes on a drawing. (It's ok if everything you make sucks)

>> No.2812274

>>2812250
Come on man use your eyes . It looks nothing like her at all its like you drew a different person

>> No.2812275

>>2812267
I think you could work on using shading to define 3d forms a bit. You did a good job of it on the right side underneath her ear on her cheek, but on the left eye there's that upturned shadow. On the reference that shadow really defines her brow ridge but less so on your piece because the eyebrow gets in the way. There's a lesser of the same shadow on the right side. too. I also think the shading on the bottom of the nose looks good but going up the nose gets too light. Look at that highlight on her nose. How can that be there?

>> No.2812276

>>2812275
thanks

>> No.2812288
File: 202 KB, 1000x500, Figures.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812288

Tried my Luck on some Figures Drawings, Opinion?
>>2810497
>>2810499
>>2810496

>> No.2812290

>>2812267
loomis

>> No.2812295
File: 293 KB, 1000x2000, beg 3d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812295

>>2812288

>> No.2812304
File: 1.95 MB, 1430x974, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812304

>>2811921
look at the right corner of her lips on the reference image. if you drew a vertical line up from it would bisect the distance between her eyebrows. if you change yours to make her lips wider, then she should look less gormless. also the left hand side of her lips should follow on from that bridge between the mouth and nose. other than that i think it's looking pretty good.

>> No.2812305
File: 67 KB, 537x800, fuuug.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812305

Dear sweet jesus lord god in heaven Hyper Angle is the crucible of fire and flame.

>> No.2812321
File: 137 KB, 480x640, tmp-cam-330215890.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812321

Hey guys :D

>> No.2812322
File: 120 KB, 526x690, guy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812322

>>2812181

>> No.2812398

>>2812179
Sum Ting Wong

>> No.2812441

>>2812321
:D read the sticky xD

>> No.2812481
File: 709 KB, 1000x921, 20170111_1315341.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2812481

What do you think?

>> No.2812484

>>2812467
>>2812467
>>2812467

>>2812467
>>2812467
>>2812467

>>2812467
>>2812467
>>2812467

>> No.2812571

>>2812398
Theng Fo Poingting Oot

>> No.2812694

>>2812441
Why...? π~π

>> No.2813132
File: 589 KB, 875x482, Photoshop_2017-01-06_23-40-58.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
2813132

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