New to the board, don't know where else to ask. When is it okay to ask for a refund if the artist hasn't done your work in months?

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Anonymous Fri Jun 3 08:01:06 2016 No.2547043 [Reply] [Original]

New to the board, don't know where else to ask. When is it okay to ask for a refund if the artist hasn't done your work in months?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 08:09:44 2016 No.2547048 >>2547043 1 month

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 08:17:14 2016 No.2547050 Honestly never. You have to wait for them to do it, fucking wait you baby.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 08:20:13 2016 No.2547053 >>2547043 after 1 month and 3 reminding notes

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 08:25:16 2016 No.2547056 >>2547053 Is he responding? Maybe he has troubles. I d say it depends on how urgent your commission or whatever is. If you NEED it need it, get a refund, if you dont NEED it, wait a little more.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 08:27:07 2016 No.2547057 >>2547056 Define need. If you paid an artist you don't NEED it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 08:30:30 2016 No.2547058 >>2547057 Hmm, I d say: if it is work related or you need it to a certain date as a present. If it for private amusement you don't really NEED it. In the end its up to you though.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 08:40:07 2016 No.2547064 >>2547050 You should be delivering your fucking books instead of shitposting, Jonestein.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 08:44:00 2016 No.2547066 >>2547043 >paying before he sends you an update of the wip when it's almost done

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 09:55:30 2016 No.2547097 >>2547043 Did you sign a contract? If not, good luck getting your money back.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 11:18:49 2016 No.2547148 >>2547097 >implying a contract is bulletproof a contract is good in instance, but before that the contract must to of higher monetary value of the process otherwise it's just a waste of time and money

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 11:25:14 2016 No.2547159 you're a fucking idiot OP. you have to set up a deadline, set up a reliable way to contact, set up a halfway point where you are shown the work regularly and pay HALF now and half when finished i hope he never pays you back you fucking failure.

Anonymous Fri Jun 3 16:26:41 2016 No.2547416
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I don't care how much shit I catch for this post but here's my simple advice, STOP COMMISSIONING. As someone who used to commission a lot of artists, after being burned over and over and over even by artists I trusted the last month I've given up, I'm done paying people who aren't going to do the work or aren't willing to pretend to care about even working. So far, I can tell you most artists are lazy as fuck. As soon as they get some kind of money they cease buttering you up and put you to the side and move on to the next client. $600 or so a month on art isn't a lot and at this point I've never expecting to see the money, the selfish pricks can keep it since they need it more than myself clearly. The part that pisses me off is giving someone what they want (the money) then getting nothing in return but silence via e-mails or "I'll get around to it".

tl;dr Don't commission artists you don't trust

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 16:41:56 2016 No.2547434 Never, ever pay an artist full price upfront unless you can personally verify their competence and trustworthiness as well as maintain a direct line of contact.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 16:43:50 2016 No.2547436 >>2547434 Even then you'll still get taken advantage of.

Anonymous Fri Jun 3 16:49:23 2016 No.2547442
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>>2547043
JUST DO IT

Who's the artist? If he doesn't reciprocate then you go around and publicly shame him. Call him out on every post he makes on his tumblr, deviantart, twitch stream or whatever until he concedes and either refunds your money or finishes the job.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 16:51:23 2016 No.2547444 File: 1.28 MB, 360x270, 1464746230046.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2547442 >Who's the artist Don't name the artist(s). This isn't the place for it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 16:53:15 2016 No.2547446 >>2547444 >not naming and shaming artists That's how you save the world.

Anonymous Fri Jun 3 16:59:57 2016 No.2547456

Ask what stage they're at, ask if they have an estimate of when it'll be done, see if you two can hammer out a deadline (a reasonable one, at least two weeks) with the condition of a refund if the deadline is not met.

None of these things are unreasonable to ask. A commision artist's rep is their life, so you have a fair amount of power here.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 17:01:07 2016 No.2547457 >>2547456 Or they don't refund you and nothing happens. There is nothing you can do to report an artist for abuse, serious.

Anonymous Fri Jun 3 17:04:47 2016 No.2547463

>>2547444
Pieces of garbage like this hurt any artist looking to get commission work and deserve to be publicly shamed as consequence. As a last resort, anyway. OP obviously isn't obligated to out this person just yet, only if they refuse to refund the money or finish the project. He's probably hoping OP is just going to leave him alone, forget about it and give up. Don't go down without a fight, motherfucker.

Anonymous Fri Jun 3 17:42:26 2016 No.2547502

>>2547043
>months

Ask for a refund, and if they don't give it, name and shame ITT and elsewhere.

I'm not familiar with typical commission procedure, but shouldn't any reliable artist have something along the lines of a 'done within x time or full refund' policy?

Anonymous Fri Jun 3 17:46:28 2016 No.2547510

>>2547457
a post on social media tagging that artist done up in a concern-trolling tone ('i'm just really disappointed :(( i don't like to single people out like this but i just want to make sure people don't make the same mistake :((') as opposed to self-righteous can have a lot of power.

Anonymous Fri Jun 3 18:09:35 2016 No.2547546

>>2547043

What deadline did he promise you? Does he advertise anything about it?

I've known a guy who told me upfront that it would take him one year. One-fucking-year. Told me he only makes exception if it's for a mariage. The good thing is he apparently delivers. I prefer not to think of the way he schedules his work. Or maybe he has really has 1 year of various commissions lined up on his agenda.

Point is, as soon as someone isn't keeping his word, it isn't rude at all to politely ask him to clarify.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 18:19:52 2016 No.2547569 Have you ever asked an artist what's taking so long? They get pissed.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 20:38:46 2016 No.2547734 >>2547569 This. Not only that but if you "attack" an artist they more or less sick their fanbase on you painted you as the villain.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 3 20:44:40 2016 No.2547741 >>2547043 What was the deadline? Rather than asking for a refund right away, ask for an update. They might still be working on it. If they have nothing to show, then you can ask for a refund.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 10:56:28 2016 No.2548499 >>2547546 What the hell took an entire year?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 20:41:10 2016 No.2549178 How do you report artists to PayPal who haven't done your work in a year?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 4 20:45:49 2016 No.2549187 >>2549178 To add to this, the artist has been posting other people's work except my own. So I can just assume he/she is doing other people's and not my own. Yes, I'm upset.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 01:04:58 2016 No.2549385 >>2547043 Maybe make a post here http://artists-beware.livejournal.com For some reason it has lots of furries but they are pretty laid back and helpful.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 12:33:53 2016 No.2549919 >>2549385 That's site is nothing but furries. And how does that really help the client? They won't get their art or money back.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 13:03:23 2016 No.2549956 >hey thanks for paying me money...bye I just don't get how artists can fuck over clients like this.

Anonymous Sun Jun 5 13:46:05 2016 No.2549999

>>2549956

It cuts both ways and it's generally because people are lazy cunts.

There are a lot of unprofessional artists out there who, once their incentive to finish a drawing is gone (namely, they already have the money) don't bother. Likewise there's an abundance of assholes who, once they have the art, have no incentive to pay and don't bother.

The best solution is 50% in advance and 50% after. Even if you get ripped off it's only half as bad as it would be otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 5 13:48:52 2016 No.2550001 File: 1.49 MB, 500x375, 1414144375117.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2549999 those are the repeating numerals that i wished to possess, congrats, the better anon won.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 22:54:30 2016 No.2552481 >>2550001 Great post Anon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 00:47:30 2016 No.2552618 >>2550001 Literally one digit away from the numerals he so desired

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 7 21:51:12 2016 No.2554279 File: 304 KB, 472x470, off_by_one.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>2550001

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 8 08:58:44 2016 No.2554709 >>2554279 Kys

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 8 17:17:08 2016 No.2555267 >>2549999 In most cases I've seen and heard the artist is the lazy one, the word "depression" comes up a lot.

Anonymous Fri Jun 10 10:24:48 2016 No.2557417

I'm in a similar boat. Does the artist have a right to refuse or get mad about refunds? If the artist hasn't even sent me a sketch in 3 months, am I entitled to ask for my money back? Does he have a "right" to get mad at me for asking for a refund after 3 months?

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 10 11:20:12 2016 No.2557459 >>2557417 Send them an email, tell them you're giving them 2 weeks to complete it. If they don't report them to PayPal. If they don't answer you, after a week report them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 11 11:19:00 2016 No.2558705 Bump for advice.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 11 14:25:07 2016 No.2558869 Why are clients so afraid to reporting artists? It's your money, if an artist takes it and you get nothing in return it's your right to report them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 11 14:29:45 2016 No.2558875 >he paid the full wage before the product >with no contract Your money has been invested in cocain somewhere in el salvador

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 11 16:30:23 2016 No.2559007 >>2558875 Most artists ask for the full amount up front. MY friends so at least.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 12 04:53:34 2016 No.2559589 >>2547416 That sucks I'm sorry that this happened to you. I'm more sorry that when an artist doesn't fulfill a service that they're paid for it hurts the rest of us artists.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 12 05:04:52 2016 No.2559600 >>2559007 I usually only ask for 50% if it's someone I dont trust. Most of my clients have been old right winger dudes though lately, and they're cool as fuck and always pay up.

Anonymous Sun Jun 12 05:24:25 2016 No.2559611

>>2547416
I'm lazy when it comes to work I do for free in drawthreads and shit, but if there was ACTUAL money on the line, especially as much as you're mentioning, you're damn right I'd put everything aside to get everything done. That covers my rent for the month, as well as bills and food. I'd put everything aside and do it two weeks time just so I can move onto other stuff.

If it means paying bills bro, that shit it top priority. To bad I haven't started commissioning yet, since I'm still portfolio building/learning, but if I ACTUALLY got paid to draw for people, ofc I'd put more effort into it.

Sorry you got burnt dude.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 12 13:00:24 2016 No.2559862 >>2559600 >old right winger dudes Do I even want to know how you know that?

Anonymous Sun Jun 12 13:09:29 2016 No.2559876

>>2547416
>tfw commission shit for freeeee and actually work hard on it and get it done asap because I feel guilty making people wait
>I enjoy drawing and thus it doesn't feel like work I need to charge for
>if I don't feel like drawing I just don't accept the commission
Fuck those faggots, are they even good enough to justify having you pay?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 12 15:36:54 2016 No.2560005 has there been an instance where a popular artist gets reported on paypal?

Anonymous Sun Jun 12 17:19:09 2016 No.2560074

>>2559589
Don't feel sorry unless you're the one who did this, which I doubt. It's a shame that some of the more popular artists can get away with shit like this though.
>>2560005
If they did they will blame the person who reported them. Or make a post on their blog "Sorry everyone, my account was locked because one client made up lies about me to PayPal and they aren't true. My life is ruined and I can't take anymore commissions for awhile, don't blame me blame the client." etc etc.

The worst part is the artist will spend the name of the client around to sully them and shift blame. The artist fanbase will always trust the artist over the client. From what I've seen the client is often attacked for filing a report.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 12 17:50:57 2016 No.2560099 >>2560074 So what do you do if you get reported unjutsly and your income source is ruined because paypal locks your account?

Anonymous Sun Jun 12 18:13:36 2016 No.2560117
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>>2560099
If you have proof you're fine. When you send a report to PayPal you send proof to back your claims, most of the time PayPal will side with the client. But if you the artist, have proof that you answered their e-mails when the client says you didn't PayPal will see.

On the other hand, if the client shows messages or e-mails sent to the artist without reply over a extended period of time PayPal will refund the money and often lock/freeze the artist account as a suspension.

The point of the fucking story is, fucking do the work you've been paid for. There is no reason it should take 4 months for a normal image. The artist is a lazy cunt.

Anonymous Sun Jun 12 18:28:10 2016 No.2560130

>>2560117
>There is no reason it should take 4 months for a normal image. The artist is a lazy cunt.
Things do come up, such as hospitalization or family emergencies. But personally whenever something does happen I just try to stay as much in touch with my customers as I can so they don't think I've taken off or am not working on their pictures. I'm a little wary about OP not answering any of the suggestions to try and contact the artist before reporting though. I had someone recently think that I'd abandoned their drawing just the day before I finished it. Luckily I caught up with them and sent them the picture before anything serious happened but it would've sucked had they gone and reported me right as I was finishing their picture and I hadn't gotten a chance to show them.

Anonymous Sun Jun 12 18:39:51 2016 No.2560144

>>2560130
>hospitalization or family emergencies

Well I assumed you know I meant under normal circumstances. A image shouldn't take that long but certain things do come up. But if you got your money and you just decide whatever I'll take my time and draw it, that's fucked up.

Anonymous Sun Jun 12 18:42:41 2016 No.2560146

>>2560130
> it would've sucked had they gone and reported me right as I was finishing their picture and I hadn't gotten a chance to show them

Nothing would have happened to you. You could show PayPal proof you were working on it and it was nearly complete. Again, if the client sent messages/e-mails/messages and you ignored them and didn't answer then you'd be in hot water.

Anonymous Sun Jun 12 18:58:39 2016 No.2560163

>>2560146
Well I hadn't talked to them in a good while, although I hadn't missed any emails from them, they just hadn't contacted me and I hadn't realized how long it had been since we last spoken but I was working on the picture. In this particular instance it might not have been the end of the world, but I still would've been kind of upset at not even getting a chance to let the client know I was nearly done and quell their doubts and instead just getting some notification from Paypal or wherever that they'd reported me. I've also had moments where I've finished something and thought I sent it only to realize days later the email didn't go through for one reason or another or that I never actually hit send. I'm just saying at least one message to the artist to let them know you're concerned might avert problems for everyone because there could be an honest mistake or misunderstanding at play.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 13 06:39:11 2016 No.2560784 I never commissioned anyone but I've heard a lot of horror stories about artists more or less taking advantage of clients. It's sad really.

Anonymous Mon Jun 13 07:09:21 2016 No.2560805
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kind of related but is it bad that i never did this one guy's commission (2 years ago)? I just forgot it but they only paid me 1 euro and they've contacted me a few times now. and this is the only time it's happened btw.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 13 07:11:43 2016 No.2560808 >>2560805 Why did he pay you a single euro?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 13 07:14:03 2016 No.2560811 >>2560808 because i only asked for 1 euro.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 13 07:15:24 2016 No.2560812 >>2560811 I feel like this is a troll post. You know how many a euro it right?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 13 07:18:28 2016 No.2560813 >>2560812 what? how much a euro is worth?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 13 13:46:15 2016 No.2561091 >>2547416 Jesus man you got had. Have you tried to report them? Have you tried emailing them?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jun 15 21:54:11 2016 No.2564206 >>2561091 Emailed them and they said they would get around to it, that was 2 months ago.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jun 17 12:21:26 2016 No.2566090 Yeah Hi...REPORT THEM

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 11:01:05 2016 No.2567323 >>2559862 I know I want to know

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 11:24:51 2016 No.2567337 >>2547043 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78-4RobJQ0Y

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 11:29:14 2016 No.2567342 >>2567337 So you're basically saying it's perfectly fine for artists just to take money?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 12:12:22 2016 No.2567381 >>2567342 >So you're basically saying I merely posted a link anon. Don't jump to conclusions like a faggot.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:32:54 2016 No.2567501
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Just so everyone here is aware, there are many steps you can take to getting money back from an artist if you've been screwed over.

1. E-mail the artist, ask them where they stand on on the commissions and what they've done so far.
1a. If they respond PLEASE PLEASE be nice to them and calmly let them know that X amount of time has passed and you'd like to have the art done soon. Again, can't stress enough BE NICE.
1b. If they don't answer your message in a month or so then follow the following steps.

2. Send another e-mail again BEING NICE AND REASONABLE that if they don't reply and give you some kind of update you'll explore options about getting a refund and opening a dispute and claim from PayPal.

3. If you still get no reply back it's time to open a dispute with PayPal as well as calling your bank/credit card company and opening a refund ticket. When opening a dispute with PayPal let them know nicely what's going on for example; "I paid for a goods undelivered and I'd like to get my money back". Make sure to explain EVERYTHING and providing them with e-mails and evidence always helps. PLEASE NOTE: If the artist sent you a Invoice bill and you paid there that's the best evidence you have and PayPal will use it.
4a: After PayPal contact your bank/credit card company and let you know about PayPal and ask to reverse the payment.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 14:35:00 2016 No.2567502

Finale: 90% of the time your bank/credit card company will reverse the payment and you'll get your money back if the amount isn't something like 1000s of dollar. In turn the artist will lose the amount as well so everything is back to before the payment. PayPal will also do a investigation with an invoice or evidence you supplied, and they will often refund you the money if you're within the 180 limit and more often than not suspend and freeze the artists PayPal entirely.

AGAIN, I can't stress enough be nice when e-mailing the artist and give the e-mails enough time to be replied to. If you report the artist too quickly and without notice to said artist. PayPal will lock the account most likely pissing off the artist and taking away all their commissions from them and stopping their income. Be smart and nice and you'll get your money back.

Most clients think they are powerless when it comes to refunds when the reality is PayPal and banks are 90% on the side of the client.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 15:46:48 2016 No.2567568 >>2567501 >>2567502 Thanks a ton. There is a lot of good info here, I feel the need to bump.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 17:44:21 2016 No.2567730 >this thread L E L bunch of fucking cry baby losers who got scammed.

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 22:47:41 2016 No.2567980

>>2567730
I think the only people that get scammed have no business-related experiences whatsoever. Which is fine, you live, you learn. But seriously, you guys gotta be smarter with your money. Even if you're a normie and think that porno smut looks amazing, pay attention and ask plenty of questions, look for other clients that dealt with the artist. Common sense shit. And of course get samples.

If you're paying a lot, look for better more reputable artists. A reputable artist will usually be very trust worthy and business minded.

Looks like you got tons of great advice in the thread already.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 18 23:13:30 2016 No.2568012 >>2560130 If something comes up, then you should have the professionalism to let the clients know. I guarantee you, a majority of them will respond with some variation of "I understand, take your time."

Anonymous Sat Jun 18 23:50:29 2016 No.2568048

If your commissioning someone or doing a commission, get a contract first, if they are not professional enough to use a contract then don't work with them.

Also if your paying non-professional prices for a commission don't expect the artist to be a professional. Cheap artists are cheap for a reason, you get what you pay for.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:03:03 2016 No.2568177 >>2568048 Define "contract" what are the keypoints you'd look for?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 03:39:18 2016 No.2568197 >>2547416 Who the fuck are you commissioning you retard. Commission me and ill fucking show you how a real artist works.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 04:19:49 2016 No.2568227 >tfw working on an hobby project you intend to sell so actually need the artwork This thread is my worst nightmare.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:42:05 2016 No.2568356 >>2568048 Post an example of a contract, if you don't mind. >>2568197 Post your portfolio

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:44:26 2016 No.2568360 >>2547416 Did you ask for a contract? If they breach it you can always report it to PayPal.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 07:51:05 2016 No.2568364 >>2568356 You can just google an artist contract. Don't be lazy.

Anonymous Sun Jun 19 14:57:12 2016 No.2568747

>>2568227
Don't let this thread scare you, a great number are artists are regular hard working people. There are a number of artist's however that are lazy, don't take art and payments seriously and don't care about clients. This people most of the time have depression, no joke. Just do your research before giving an artist money and you'll be fine.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 19 15:28:42 2016 No.2568780 >>2568012 Literally the second sentence in the post.

Anonymous Mon Jun 20 20:03:54 2016 No.2570487
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>paying before the artist has given you actual proof that he's almost done or EVEN STARTED
You are a total fucking dumbfuck and can only blam yourself. I don't understand what kind of a desperate furfag diaper fetishist you have to be to immediately pay when someone accepts your commission, that just goes against all common sense.

I'm actually going to start doing commissions this summer and asking for money before I have the pic done and before sending a censored version or a WIP as proof never even crossed my mind. I thought everyone does it like that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 21 04:01:29 2016 No.2570891 >>2570487 >furfag diaper fetishist No such thing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jun 21 18:43:52 2016 No.2571849 >>2570891 Nigga have you SEEN some of the things people fap to?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 23 16:38:08 2016 No.2574356 >>2571849 It's hideous.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jun 23 23:05:48 2016 No.2574654 Simple. Report to PayPal; read >>2567501 >>2567502

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