/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.2143436]

I think I compiled answers to some of the recurring pressing questions beginners to /ic/ ask in this image. "What do I need to get started?" "What tablet should I buy?" etc. but there's probably more stuff I'm forgetting, also I may have made grammatical errors and whatnot so any content or editing help would be appreciated. If they're not going to go to the sticky we might as well bring a part of it to them.

[Anonymous No.2143438]

>no huion
>no mango studio
>electric pencil sharpener

[Anonymous No.2143441]

>>2143438
Manual sharpeners suck balls, the extra $10 is worth it. So much faster, so much more consistent. The time you save not jerking your pencil off alone more than makes up for it.

I guess I was nervous about talking about Huion because I've heard about brutal driver problems (but that could just be Wacom shills exaggerating for effect I guess).

Maybe I should have mentioned mango studio over Sai though as far as I know, I wanted 3 software each and those were just the ones that came to my head first even though Sai looks pretty shitty (never used it personally).

[Anonymous No.2143453]

>>2143436
>mechanical pencil .5mm
I doubt that you know what you're talking about - post your art.
>inb4 shitty excuses

[Anonymous No.2143460]

>>2143441
>Manual sharpeners suck balls, the extra $10 is worth it. So much faster, so much more consistent. The time you save not jerking your pencil off alone more than makes up for it.

Just use a knife and sandpaper mate. Also where are the ink tools for building line confidence?

> Maybe I should have mentioned mango studio over Sai though as far as I know, I wanted 3 software each and those were just the ones that came to my head first even though Sai looks pretty shitty (never used it personally)
>Isn't even familiar with the software
>Recommends it anyway

[Anonymous No.2143470]

>>2143453
In this context it's not about the art I can make as I know I suck, rather the marks the tool can make. A $10 mechanical pencil (with an additional $5-$6 for 90 lead refills) is simply a better deal for a beginning artist than a $5 felt tip pen that gets exhausted in 100 pages or so and I learned that the hard way. Peter Han basically demands his students use them in this video (this video that I really should have included in the image because manual dexterity is probably one of the first things any sincere aspiring artist should strive for) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgDNDOKnArk.. I'm not saying the pens are bad at all or that Peter Han is conspiring with Staedtler to make his students spend a marginally larger sum of money on art supplies, lol, but I am saying that an artist that won't make anything worth preserving for a while may as well milk his materials as best he can and hold the primpy stuff like leather-bound sketchbooks and so on at least until he can draw a convincing and proportional looking Loomis blook from FWAP without shitting himself.

Here are some not-great ellipses and oblong circles made with a .7mm bic mech pencil that feels like it could fall apart in my hand at any moment because you asked though. It is as capable of making a perfect circle or a straight line as any pen and something maybe slightly more robust would be a better deal for a novice in the end.

[Anonymous No.2143473]

>>2143460
>Recommends it anyway

(I'm not familiar with Manga studio either)

...

(I have used Sketchbook though)

>Just use a knife and sandpaper mate

That's real nigga shit a beginner shouldn't really concern himself with I feel. Kid's gonna cut his benis off trying to sharpen his pencil; I don't want that on my conscious!

>Also where are the ink tools for building line confidence?

That's what the mechanical pencil is for dawg. No eraser, no going back. It's pretty much the same deal.

[Anonymous No.2143476]

>>2143473
*conscience

Fuk, bed time it seems.

[Anonymous No.2143499]

>>2143436
I can understand your motivation, OP, but if you're going to suggest materials to use beyond a pencil and paper you should have a specific reason to. A beginner doesn't need to know anything more than a pencil and paper is fine.

Clip Studio Paint / Manga Studio definitely belongs in the software list.

With regard Peter Han recommending the felt tip pen, there's more reason to it than just not being able to erase. The exercises where he suggests going over the same line multiple times don't work nearly as well when you have a grove carved into the paper from a pencil (especially a mechanical pencil). Cheaper alternatives to the Staedtler Pigment Liner would be:

Sharpie Pen ($12 a dozen)
Staedtler Triplus Fineliner (~$5 for a box of 4)
Sakura Pigma Microns ($12 per 6)
Uni Pin Pens
Pilot Razor Point II
Faber Castell PITT pens

The Sharpie Pens are really easy to find and very cheap. There's no reason to substitute a pencil for a pen when the teacher tells you to use a pen damn it.

[Anonymous No.2143501]

>>2143436
>$300 tablet to "get you started"
What? Why?

[Anonymous No.2143503]

>>2143501

Not him but anything cheaper would either fuck you up with driver issues or fuck you up with a tiny active area.

Some hobbies just require a bit more of a startup cost.

[Anonymous No.2143506]

>>2143499
>I can understand your motivation, OP, but if you're going to suggest materials to use beyond a pencil and paper you should have a specific reason to. A beginner doesn't need to know anything more than a pencil and paper is fine.

I think you're 100% right actually and I was debating leaving that out but digital is so popular it's hard for me not to mention it at all even though I personally feel like an artist will be held back if they jump into using a tablet. I feel like I should put some kind of disclaimer about it in there.

>The exercises where he suggests going over the same line multiple times don't work nearly as well when you have a grove carved into the paper from a pencil (especially a mechanical pencil).

I'm really glad you brought that up actually having used both I did notice in fact that my pens were actually making a groove in the paper that would sometimes either throw me off the mark or help me depending on the circumstance whereas using this crappy bic pencil right now I'm not having that problem (I'm garbage at lines either way to be honest, I'm much better at curves and ellipses). I think what it comes down to is that I was using a drawing pad with the pens and I'm just drawing on top of my tablet with this pencil. The direct contact with the hard surface is helping alleviate that issue, I think. Give it a shot yourself if you have one lying around. It's very late and I'm not entirely trusting of my own perceptions right now so I could use a second opinion, but I am fairly confident in my memory of leaving grooves in the paper using the recommended pens as well.

[Anonymous No.2143507]

>>2143501
What >>2143503 said

I've had smaller tablets and they're fine if you want to scan work into your chosen software and paint it but if you want to actually draw using that shit good luck my man. Having a small tablet was very discouraging to me in the past because every stroke was so quick and disproportional on the monitor to how I was moving my hand.

[Anonymous No.2143510]

>>2143501
>>2143503
>>2143507
70$ Huion is a better choice over the 300$ wacom ones.

[Anonymous No.2143512]

>>2143510
As a long time Wacom and PC user nothing terrifies me more than the possibility that you're right and that I'm the digital art equivalent of a macfag.

[Anonymous No.2143514]

>>2143436
Why isn't gimp recommended?

[Anonymous No.2143517]

>>2143503
>>2143507
Yeah, you're right. That's a good point. I just I feel like it's excessive.
I mean, if you have that kind of money to spend on a tablet, sure, go for it, but for someone that is just starting it may be too much to ask.
Also, is kinda misleading, an expensive tablet won't make up for a lack of skills. If I were to buy a $300 tablet just for making the same shitty drawings I could make on a $50-80 tablet I would end up really frustrated and wanting to kill myself.

[Anonymous No.2143518]

>>2143517
>Also, is kinda misleading, an expensive tablet won't make up for a lack of skills. If I were to buy a $300 tablet just for making the same shitty drawings I could make on a $50-80 tablet I would end up really frustrated and wanting to kill myself.

An expensive tablet won't compensate for a lack of skill but it has the room to accommodate for skill growth.

Thats the point of getting something good early, shit can last for years.

[Anonymous No.2143521]

>>2143517
You're right, I kind of alluded to that in an earlier post. I need to add a disclaimer cautioning against attempting digital too soon if I don't just remove it entirely. It would be foolish of me to advocate for that when going balls deep into digital with no prior drawing experience was very frustrating for me personally. I think a lot of young and/or naive people as I think that buying an expensive piece of equipment will make them draw well. I've been there and seen it myself.

>>2143514
You can draw in gimp? lol I never had any luck getting my tablet to work with it very well personally but I never really tried very hard either.

[Anonymous No.2143523]

>>2143517
The problem is that anything cheaper is usually bad for your health or requires a large amount of skill to work around limitations.
The intuos pro medium really is the beginner tablet.

[Anonymous No.2143526]

>paying for SAI

[Anonymous No.2143527]

>>2143518
Yeah that's a good point too, tablets don't really have moving parts so them breaking without a lot of help isn't something I'm personally familiar with. It is a good investment to save up and get the best one you can reasonably afford I feel, if you have any sincere aspirations in drawing digitally exclusively. Still though in including it in this image I have to make sure the viewer understands the perils besides just having to spend a lot of money. When I tried and failed at drawing using a tablet years and years ago it basically put me off drawing for quite a while. I was so frustrated-I'd convinced myself it was impossible after barely even trying; it was just so jarring drawing on a different surface than where I was actually moving the stylus. If I would have drawn in traditional media beforehand for a while I don't think I would have had gotten so butthurt.

[Anonymous No.2143532]

hb pencil and printer paper are probably not going to get you good results

[Anonymous No.2143534]

>>2143532
The masters of today started out with yellow pencils and photocopier paper.

[Anonymous No.2143550]

>>2143532
Good results are not the point when you're drilling fundamentals at all my man. I finally finished my first ream of printer paper a few days ago. It was mostly gestures and line practice but it was a long, long time coming. Shit was so cash, and every last bit of it all went where it belongs, right in the trash! At this stage of the game I'm not at the level where anything I could conceivably do is worth holding on to for long and that's a big part of improving. Separating your work from your ego, not getting too attached to any one image and just pumping shit out and building your visual library. I have my Intuos Pro Large for when I think I'm ready to go all the way with a piece but for now I'm 100% focused on fundamentals and I think that's the right way to do it for the time being.

http://www.ctrlpaint.com/videos/mastering-the-art-of-letting-go

[Anonymous No.2143551]

>>2143550
>saki

inb4 thread hitting bump limit with saki buthurt

[Anonymous No.2143552]

>>2143532
why shouldn't it?
it's like people who think having an expesive camera automatically results in taking good pictures.

[Anonymous No.2143560]

>>2143552
I'm tempted to just go around to stores and buy the different varieties of pencils just to see what the real difference is. I get the feeling that artists are, once again and as always, getting their shit pushed in with nothing real substantive to show for it.

[Anonymous No.2143813]

>>2143506
>Give it a shot yourself if you have one lying around. It's very late and I'm not entirely trusting of my own perceptions right now so I could use a second opinion, but I am fairly confident in my memory of leaving grooves in the paper using the recommended pens as well.

I've spent many hours doing those Dynamic Sketching exercises with different pens, and I usually use a dozen sheets of copy paper on a clipboard. You don't need to press very hard to get a felt tip pen to make a steady mark. Especially if you are holding it perpendicular to the page.

Holding it that way isn't entirely necessary, but it helps to preserve the tip. After a while the tip will get a little flatter and won't dig into the page as much. This makes it harder to draw with the pen held at a normal angle, though, so I keep a few Sharpie pens labelled "90 degrees" that I use just for practicing.

[Anonymous No.2143822]

>>2143512
wacom does have slightly more quality so you can rest easy.
but that being said, you don't necessarily need that "quality". a huion will do the job just fine. it's like that.

[Anonymous No.2143952]

>>2143813
>You don't need to press very hard to get a felt tip pen to make a steady mark.

I agree but I also feel the same is true for the pencil. You can make a perfectly legible mark in mechanical pencil practically ghosting over the paper, while the mark certainly won't be as stark as the one made with a pen, you will be able to see it and as you continue on with the Dynamic sketching course and adjust your movements accordingly. I still think I'm in the right here having used both the recommended Staedtler pens and a cheap mechanical pencil quite extensively to participate in the Dynamic sketching exercises but I'm open to your consideration and those of any others that would like to contribute to the discussion.

Sheeeeeit.

>>2143822
I guess it depends on what kind of quality discrepancy we're talking here, if it's jittery lines and so on then the Huion is out, however if it's literally just that it feels cheaper and doesn't have any of those ultimately superfluous control buttons the wacom tablet has then I might replace the image with a comparable Huion right now. Part of me thinks I should buy one and try it out myself first before I do that though, I don't want to leave it up to chance and screw somebody over and while I'm not exactly rolling in dough I'd like this image to be as useful as possible by the final revision and that means practicing what I preach as best as possible. I could probably return it or sell it shortly after trying it out anyway for nearly as much as I'd spent.

[Anonymous No.2143976]

>>2143550
>I finally finished my first ream of printer paper a few days ago. It was mostly gestures and line practice
wow, uhuh, that sounds like a lot of fun

[Anonymous No.2143989]

>>2143976
Your sarcasm is duly noted and you're right it wasn't fucking fun at all but now I can draw straight lines and curves fairly well and my gestures look alright, this ream I will be doing more detailed work and perspective practice.

[Anonymous No.2144004]

>>2143976
It is if you like gestures.

[Anonymous No.2144008]

>>2144004
I do like gestures, something about doing them is very cathartic, but it's tough when you do it that much. To be honest I think doing that may have held me back a bit versus if I'd spent more time on serious study.

[Anonymous No.2144079]

>>2143534
I strongly doubt that.

>>2143552
I'm not saying expensive stuff lead to good results, quite the opposite. I'm saying shitty supplies lead to shitty work, unless of course if handled by a master but that's not what we're talking about here.

The issue with hb pencil is the small value range, especially on printed paper. just go to the beginner thread and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'm mostly saying this because a lot of art schools I've seen force you to drop the pencil (and especially the eraser) and instead work on a big format with charcoal which forces you to really let go and actually allows you to make interesting stuff right from the start even if it's full of mistakes.

But of course you can choose to make a ton of shitty drawings and just throw it all away when you're done, hoping that you'll get better at it with time. And I'm not saying it's stupid or anything. Just that it won't work for everybody.

[Anonymous No.2144091]

>>2144079
>The issue with hb pencil is the small value range, especially on printed paper. just go to the beginner thread and you'll see what I'm talking about.

You're speaking nonsense. You can get a full range of values with just an HB pencil and printer paper. Beginners just don't have the dexterity to get those values. And using multiple pencils of varying hardness during a drawing won't train their dexterity either.

[Anonymous No.2144110]

>>2143436

I've used several Huions and an Ugee for a while. they're fine as long as you follow the instructions and install the drivers first.

Update that infographic if you actually plan on using it. No beginner wants to drop 200+ dollars on something they're not even sure about.

[op No.2144112]

>>2144091
He may have a point about value ranges I feel and I see where he's coming from, I've never been given the impression that these pencils with their hard lead can achieve a very effective gradation. You're right in that it just might be my inability to control the pressure I'm putting on the pencil but I can't be sure without a second opinion.

[op No.2144113]

>>2144110
Will do for sure

[Anonymous No.2144127]

lmao why did op suggest ps2? it's really not recommended, just free.

[Anonymous No.2144128]

>>2144127
It's better than the current iteration of Gimp ayyy lmao

[Anonymous No.2144199]

>>2143436
the whole guide is miguiding and overall a bad start
some are good but missing much of the fundementals
and you dont need a tablet to get started

rating 3/10

[op No.2144265]

>>2144112
One thing I did mean to elaborate on though about my thoughts on the HB pencil is that a lot of the material from Loomis etc. are more about capturing the contours and emphasizing the forms using line, strong cast shadows, a single mid tone and hatching (none of which I really captured very well in this Hogarth pate study either way but you know) more so than highly accurate values with subtle gradations. However having said that I can definitely see your point and will try to run to the store quick on my way home from work to try out a couple different brands instead of just casually recommending pencils with the hardest dirtiest lead there are.

>>2144199
Thanks mane I'm working on it, I hope it's at least a 5/10 by the time I'm done

[Anonymous No.2144369]

le no. 2 bencil bump

[Anonymous No.2144374]

I gave the Dynamic Figure Drawing a shot.

[Anonymous No.2144376]

>>2144374
Cool

[Anonymous No.2144473]

>>2144374
I like the anatomy, but you're focusing too much on detail and not enough on gesture, so the figure looks stiff and has some strange design. Draw gesture first, make the details compliment it.

[Anonymous No.2144482]

>>2144473
I'll show YOU a gesture!!!

Seriously though you're right that anon does have some problems there, the ribs being sharp lines rather than a sort of soft gradation is kind of bugging me.

[Anonymous No.2144490]

>>2143473
>newfag to /ic/
>drawing shitty circles with mechanical pencil
>accidentally triangle
>realize i fucked up and I have to live with myself
>until i see a pencil with an eraser like one feet away on the table
>fuck fate

[Anonymous No.2144494]

>>2144482
No, it's 100% true.
Still working at it, I'm going to try to complete the book and attempt it a second time around. I haven't been drawing long, so sorry for the quality, but I did notice some errors as I was shading it in (such as proportions and the gestures). When I created the outline, it looked fine, but as I shaded it in, I slowly notice everything wrong with it.

However, what did you mean by this:
>make the details compliment it

[Anonymous No.2144576]

>looking up non-HB/#2 pencils like 5B and charcoal
>the fuckers are like $1.00 a pencil OR MORE and the lead is softer so obviously they're going to get used up substantially faster than an HB/#2 that costs $.10 or so.

Nigga...FUCK THAT!

I'm pretty convinced that HB/#2 should be fine to participate in most literature i.e.:

>>2144265
>>2144369

...Though I can see darker pencils being very beautiful for finished works and one would need them to do value studies eventually...

[Anonymous No.2144579]

>>2144576
Also why are even the lighter (than HB/#2) pencils (3H, 4H, 5H etc.) more expensive as well? Don't those have substantially less actual lead (more clay in the mixture) and shouldn't they be cheaper as consequence?

[Anonymous No.2144583]

>>2144579
>doesn't know about supply and demand

[Anonymous No.2144584]

>>2144583
The funny thing is I was just going to pensively inquire about that. I suppose that is the only conceivable reason after all.

[Anonymous No.2144588]

>>2143436
fix to only wood pencil, paper and exacto knife
add bridgman to beginner books

for FUCK sakes get rid of proko. Replace with new masters academy, you know, the one where vilppu does gesture and teaches, not some fucking jew in it only for the money

everything else seems spot on. sycra might not be the best to put on, since he himself is stuck ion a stylization rut, somthing that most beginners are trying to escape. He's nice enough though. I would also recommend One fantastic week by peter mohrbacher. The live demos are amazing and very informative. Anthony Jones is a close second

you were close OP. you were close

[op No.2144598]

>>2144588
I actually have a lot of Bridgman in the megaupload file in the link. Bridgman has wonderful expressive and informative drawings but to be honest he's very intimidating, I had to drop "100 Hands"a while back because I didn't know what I was looking at a lot of the time.

>wood pencil only
I would but Peter Han's Dynamic Sketching course is too good for a beginner to pass up (I'm going to emphasize that in the next revision) and I think the mechanical pencil is a cheap and effective alternative to the expensive Staedtler pens. The mechanical pencil is also really good for technical drawing in perspective, industrial miscellanea and inorganic environments given the stability of the line weight, I don't think I can pass it up my man.

>exacto knife
I've expressed my opinion on that earlier. I think asking a beginning artist to whittle their own pencil right from the start kind of a tall order. Electric sharpeners are very cheap (only like $10 more than the knife), very fast and consistent.

>get rid of Proko

I think his free videos are pretty good man, New Masters Academy is a paid subscription service as well and if I recall the free material they have on youtube is limited to some models posing (they're definitely worth checking out though, very nice, high resolution photos)

>One Fantastic Week

I like Pete (even though he's a tracer) but I always thought those videos in particular were just artists bullshitting with each other and making small talk. Could you link me to one that you feel might be more typical? I'd definitely consider including them if they're more about these artist's process, workflow and so on.

[Anonymous No.2144622]

>>2144598
yes new masters is paid, but the videos like thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOtVUHgJqQk are too good to pass up. my biggest fear with this is about a beginner seeing this and seeing shitroko and them going to his web sight and blowing 75+$ on a single tutorial. most of his free stuff is good because its either lifted directly from bridgman or loomis.

I guess bridgman can be intimidating to a beginner.I never really thought of that, I just looked at how his work has helped me and thought that I couldn't not suggest him

I honestly got mixed up and though dave rapoza did the demo on one fantastic week. I was wrong, its actually one lvl up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4BtCbrvG7s this demo inspired me massively. lvl up has some great stuff and often does more live demos than peter does. and hearing some tips on how higher ups create effects and cut down their time is good too.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYHLzVugoLw (I know it's noah, and most of this board hates him, but that fire trick is sick as fuck)

[Anonymous No.2144724]

>>2144079
>The issue with hb pencil is the small value range
The HB pencil is one of the pencils with the biggest value range. It can go super light and fairly dark. I do prefer a 2B myself, but saying the HB has a shit value range is just retarded.

[Anonymous No.2144734]

>>2143436
Throw out cheap wooden pencils. If you want wooden pencils you either buy good or don't buy at all, because cheap pencils have lots of grain and the leads break easily, both things not good for shading and any line beyond construction lines. And for construction lines you have mechanical pencils, which also work for shading if you buy different lead grades.

Electric pencil sharpeners are efficient, but they are also LOUD. If you want to draw near other people or just hate noise, they suck. And they also only make wooden pencils sharp, they don't do anything beyond that for were you customize the lead, which is what you want wooden pencils for mostly. And the good ones are also really expensive, not only $15, which will probably break after a few uses.

As for books, it is pretty one sided. Most of these aren't great either. It's the same as the sticky. And getting too early into figure drawing can be deadly.

I will actually recommend the opposite from what you say - hoard lots of books so you can get easy access in a few months from now on, because account X on the internet will probably disappear or because book X isn't to your liking and you need to check out a dozen other books before you find one useful for you.

As for only 2-3 artists from today, there are tons of dead artists who wrote great stuff and who are a better go to for learning for a lot of other important fundamental things.

Meh, maybe I will make a guide myself.

[Anonymous No.2144735]

>>2143436
wat is all this bitching about OP's generous newfag guide
I actually found it really useful.
Thank you, based OP

[Anonymous No.2144818]

>>2143441
>Manual sharpeners suck balls
When the blade gets old, yes.

Anyway, for the same price of the electric sharpener you can get a 2mm lead mechanical pencil + the stadtler sharperner for the 2mm leads.
And in my opinion the 2mm mechanical pencil is the most versatile pencil you can use.

[Anonymous No.2144823]

Add "Drawing Lessons from the Great Masters" to the list. It's required reading for everyone. I wish I had read it much sooner.

[Anonymous No.2144859]

>>2144818
Any use for the sharpener beyond what sand paper can achieve?

[Anonymous No.2144876]

With all the bitching and crying going along, as well as the obsessions of trying to git gud fast, I feel as though THIS should be the book to read.

[Anonymous No.2144886]

>>2144876
>reading

gay!

[Anonymous No.2144899]

>>2143503
Is a smaller tablet really that bad though? I've been using a small Wacom tablet and I feel like a bigger one would be too big for me. I like being able to hold it like I would a sketchbook. The current equivalent to my tablet is the Intuos Pen Small, which is only $80. I think that would be sufficient for most people who are complete beginners.

[Anonymous No.2144900]

>>2144859
slower messier and more expensive in the long run than the 2mm sharpener.

[Anonymous No.2144906]

>>2143436
If I may, I would like to recommend "You Can Draw in 30 Days" by Mark Kistler as a book for complete beginners. I got frustrated whenever I tried Fun with a Pencil because the author claimed I only needed to know how to draw a circle, even a lopsided one, and then in reality expected me to know far more than that. You Can Draw in 30 Days doesn't do anything like that, and the first lesson is to draw and shade a sphere. It's certainly not the only book a beginner will need, but I think it will help people like me who need a book to start with that truly requires no prior knowledge or experience.

[Anonymous No.2144914]

>>2144906
Sounds good. Got a .pdf?

[Anonymous No.2144924]

>>2144914
Different anon here, there's a bunch on kickass torrents and TPB, I'll post a megaupload link once I've got it downloaded

[Anonymous No.2144941]

>>2144914
Here you go
https://mega.co.nz/#!PYlXCCRB!2dOFjPzgvwRLJ0MHaIeNuarD_TsMTKlShbrG192pTIY

[Anonymous No.2144980]

>>2144900
But with sand paper you can flatten the tip on one or both sides to get two kinds of strokes just by rotating the pencil. The pointy tip is mostly useful for construction lines which should be thin so they are correct.

[Anonymous No.2144988]

>>2144941
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.2145046]

>>2144980
A chisel point, yes, but you can achieve the same kind of effects with the side of the 2mm lead.

[Anonymous No.2145073]

I have a high quality manual sharpener, the only problem is they don't mesh well with low quality pencils, if anyone's wondering why I included an electric sharpener for the purposes of this image. The top pencil s a pretty typical result with my manual sharpener, the bottom is an old boston brand electric sharpener. The manual sharpener has a tendency to pull the lead straight out of the wooden shaft and get jammed with wood shavings and bits of lead. No such problem with the electric model. Using cheap HB #2 pencils the results aren't stellar but they are imho acceptable enough to follow along with the plurality of written instruction from Loomis, Hogarth etc. and to that end I feel alright recommending them but pensive about recommending a manual sharpener as consequence. Of course, it really could just be this particular brand of sharpener and this particular brand of pencil don't get along, too.

[Anonymous No.2145924]

>>2145046
um, no, that isn't the same thing.

With the side of a pointed pencil lead you can't adjust the width of the line very well. It is also a problem with getting a line that is even and not accidently having scratches and darker lines from the tip or the other end. You also hold the pencil different. Other problem is pressure on the tip can break it, so accentuated lines can't be done securely.

With a customized point you can do accentuated lines which change width easier. Also shading using certain techniques works better.

See pic related. Few lines and all of them constantly change their width and value.

[Anonymous No.2145927]

>>2145924

not him but holy shit that stuff is glorious

and to think some cunt on this board actually said you're not meant to render in sketchbooks

[Anonymous No.2145938]

>>2145924 (cont.)
Also, multiple pencil lead grades, just in case anyone wonders. One pencil isn't enough to produce this.

[Anonymous No.2145942]

>>2145073
that's because those plastic manual sharpeners are shit.
you need the metal ones

[Anonymous No.2145973]

>>2145938
>One pencil isn't enough to produce this.

You can do that with just a 2b.

[Anonymous No.2145994]

>>2145973
No. The technique used in the image actually _need_ multiple grades. Also, trying to emulate other grades with only 2B only wastes time, gives worse results and damages the tools and paper. Subpar results and wasted time while you learn to draw is bad.

Using one pencil is only good if you haven't come yet to real pencil techniques.

Otherwise, do a copy of the above and see for yourself. And don't delude yourself into thinking you could do it if you were just better.

[Anonymous No.2146043]

>>2145994
Vilppu uses a single pencil to draw this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKlu8YLvWNo


Albeit it's a Polychromos, but he uses one pencil. In his '85 landscape series, he mentions that he will often use only one pencil, a 2b, which he uses throughout the series along with a 6b pencil. He gets a full range of values with both, and doesn't switch between them when drawing. To be fair, he also says he will sometimes use 3-4 pencils during a drawing to control the value range a little easier. But that's not required.

[Anonymous No.2146074]

>>2145924
This image is intended for beginners who can't even freehand a circle and newbie artists drilling anatomy fundamentals and so on. You simply don't need extravagant materials like pencils that cost a dollar or more a piece when you can't even draw worth dick as it is imho.

[Anonymous No.2146086]

>>2145942
The sharpener itself is metal and structurally similar to the one you've posted. Maybe I got a lemon or something because it really doesn't work very well. Also the pencils themselves are about as bad as you can get so that could obviously have something to do with it.

[Anonymous No.2146097]

>>2146043
I looked through the video but quality is shit and he doesn't finish. Not gonna sit through the details. Google doesn't give me anything for Vilppu landscape. Have you any landscape drawings from him you can post?

>>2146074
Read before you reply.

[Anonymous No.2146132]

>>2146097
https://www.vilppustore.com/Storefront.htm#!/Landscape-Drawing-&-Painting/c/7091901/offset=0&sort=normal

Pic related is from that series and was drawn using only a 2b pencil. The video quality is bad and he only spent a couple minutes on the drawing, but you can clearly see he's using the techniques taught in "On Drawing Trees and Nature." The same methods used by Rene Aigner in the image you posted (which is just a study of a plate from ODaN).


>Have you any landscape drawings from him you can post?

Vilppu has surprisingly very few drawings or paintings available online. I can post stuff collected from his youtube and facebook.


Also, you really should watch that whole video. It's helpful, and super relaxing. I could watch it all day.

[Anonymous No.2146160]

>>2146132

[Anonymous No.2146204]

>>2146132
I can't see a video at the link, probably some browser stupidity. Also not really interested; I dislike videos.

Maybe one day we will see some stuff from Vilppu in better quality on the internet. But until then I pretty much have to reserve myself not to have any opinion on him or how useful his teachings are.

>>2146160
oh god, that is terrible; this looks like it was made as thumbnail/quick check?

[Anonymous No.2147106]

>>2146204
>oh god, that is terrible

Post your work my contrarian friend.

[Anonymous No.2147109]

>>2146204
Please stop, you're triggering me.

[Anonymous No.2147120]

>>2146204
It's obviously a loose gestural enviornment sketch, but it illustrates that competent results are perfectly achievable with cheap tools.

[Anonymous No.2147125]

Can you start off drawing on a tablet instead of a pad and paper ? This question always bugged me, I see tons of you younglings jumping ahead when they haven't mastered the pencil and pad. Aren't they just bound to give up out of frustration if they don't get it ?

[OP No.2147128]

>>2147125
>Aren't they just bound to give up out of frustration if they don't get it ?

This is exactly what happened to me when I was far younger and it was very foolish of me to omit some kind of disclaimer with regards to digital in the image itself. The next revision will be quite a bit different from the picture in the op so I'm appreciating all the input I've received so far.

[Anonymous No.2147130]

>>2146204
typical shit talker who will never post their own work- Because. It. Is. Shit.

Keep it up anon, you'll be the top shit talker at Shit Stain, Baby Fucker and Fuck Face in no time. I heard you just made partner in fact so congrats on that!

[OP No.2147131]

>>2147128
Also I'd considered omitting digital entirely, but seeing as it seems to be the goal of a lot of beginning artists whether it's animation or painting I feel compelled to throw it in there.

[Anonymous No.2147136]

>>2146204
Shitting on someone's work isn't gonna make them better, why not offer constructive criticism ? I don't mind seeing someone giving another artist a negative comment but what's the point if you're not gonna offer feedback

[Anonymous No.2147137]

>>2147131
Well it's not bad to include it.
I got medium intuos as a gift when I was younger. About ten years ago and it still works. Except for being slightly beat up from my younger self's abuse. Need to get a screen protector to smooth out some scuffs and a new pen since the button sorta broke.

The only problem is people buying expensive stuff without knowing they're in it for the long haul.

[Anonymous No.2147273]

>All of those out of date books
>Only two YouTubers
>Four materials
>Digital for beginners

Here's the better one. Sorry OP, your guide is shit.

[Anonymous No.2147284]

>>2143512
>>2143510
Huion gave me more driver issues that I had to troubleshoot, and some aren't even fully solved (when using SAI the tablet will recognize both monitors instead of just the one I won't)

[Anonymous No.2147286]

>>2147273
>Comics Sans
>superior to anything
Don't know why you would expect anyone to take that seriously when you can't even into a font that doesn't look like you're mother's gaping asshole after she shat you out.

[Anonymous No.2147287]

>>2147273
Literally should be stickied

[Anonymous No.2147305]

>>2147286
/gd/ pls go back to your containment board

[Anonymous No.2147309]

>>2147273
>>2147286
As a beginner, I find this font to be hip, trendy, stylish, and cool

What now, faggot?

[Anonymous No.2147335]

>>2147273
>literally 90% the same as the op except spamming tons of youtube playlists as if they're anything other than inconsequential next to dindu Dunn or Scroto
>"lead holder" (talk about gay)
>sharpie (top kek)

Good ups on the ruler though.

[Anonymous No.2147337]

>>2147273
This is crap too. Why do you rec mediocre ppl like Sycra and Proko when masters like Vilppu and Hampton are available? "It's free" doesn't cut it--lrn2pirate. Vilppu has videos, if that's the preference.

Loomis is also a poor choice because the text is archaic and long-winded. The diagrams are OK but badly typeset (in the style of the time), thus hard to read. While technically competent, he's not a great teacher. The figure stuff is better covered by Vilppu & Hampton, and the line/shape/values/perspective babby's basics are more approachable in Keys to Drawing and Norling's book.

[Anonymous No.2147349]

Digital gatekeepers can get fucked they sound like old nutty ass moralists like John Harvey Kellogg

If you want to start out with digital. Go for it. It's the same shit, different flavor.

[Anonymous No.2147360]

>>2147273
>no mention of Hogarth

[OP No.2147361]

>>2147349
I don't feel that's true. I'm fairly experienced with both and yet the discrepancy in the time it takes me to get the lines I want for like a Loomis head abstraction, even with an intuos large as I use, is fairly substantive. Maybe I'm just given that impression because I've been focusing on traditional for a long time though and haven't been on my tablet as much.

[Anonymous No.2147363]

>>2147360
Hogarth sucks. The drawings in his books are distorted, exaggerated in very unnatural-looking ways.

[Anonymous No.2147367]

>>2147273
>don't fall into a cycle of marathoning videos
>after posting the playlist of every single youtube artist there is

uhh...

[Anonymous No.2147384]

>>2147335
>>2147337
>Sycra
>Proko

They are good for beginners. Sycra has gotten worse, but the things he TALKS about are worth considering. And because they're young, they are more relateable and hip. You gotta appreciate Vilppu to really understand him.

>Vilppu and Hampton are the only artists worth looking at.
Nigga do you even Steve Huston, Danny Galieote, Erik Olson, Charles Hu, David Finch, Kim Jung Gi, Bridgman, Hogarth
Learn to look at other artists. You will not get better by being a robot with tunnel vision. Learn to look at different processes, different styles, different perspectives. Better to learn that early than later.

>Loomis is a poor choice
That's why I included one book. I agree, his shit is outdated, but if it's known to loosen people up, then it's fine.

>Keys to Drawing and Norling's book
Have fun learning how to be shit with perspective. I should have put Olson's perspective course up there too, but Montague and D'amelio are the best two books on perspective.


I should update it with "Draw from life"
and the Olson's playlist.

also
>"It's free" doesn't cut it--lrn2pirate
The fuck? When you're getting something for free that normally has a cost, you're pirating.
Sorry am I missing something.

There is no "One exact way" to start learning how to draw. But there is a "better" way to start by absorbing information from many different successful artists and applying it to your own practice. This list not only gives you artists to look for, but it gives you Anatomy, Perspective, Gesture, Form, Rendering, Imaginative Drawing, Life Drawing (Not yet, but I'll update it) as well as some basic materials and books. If you have a better list, I would love to see it.

[Anonymous No.2147392]

>>2147273
>fun with a pencil
uhh...

[Anonymous No.2147400]

>>2147363
>implying you yourself are perceptive enough to understand that and aren't just regurgitating things you've heard from other people whom are in turn doing the same thing themselves

kek.

[Anonymous No.2147401]

>>2147392
>>2147367
>uhh...

Woah... so this is the power of /ic/

[Anonymous No.2147402]

>>2147384
apparently james gurney thinks norling is pretty useful
hmm.. who should I trust...

[Anonymous No.2147403]

>>2147392
There is literally nothing wrong with Fun With a Pencil (except when he says "now make your own!", seemingly oblivious to the fact the target audience of the book will have no idea what the features look like from different angles and so on)

[Anonymous No.2147404]

>>2147401
uhh...

[Anonymous No.2147414]

>>2147403
uhh...
It assumes a beginner knows how to see form. It's retarded. That's why all the "loomis heads" in beginner threads are full of circles instead of spheres.

[Anonymous No.2147418]

>>2147273
Why do you have to include the shitty labeuf meme

[Anonymous No.2147425]

>>2147414
uhh...

Seeing form is what the reader is supposed to get out of the book to begin with. The problem is so many people skim through these books and think they can just ignore the author and dive straight into the drawing (it's true a lot of the time, but not ALL of the time!).

[Anonymous No.2147429]

>>2147402
Erik Olson's perspective ability > James Gurney

You trust a painter to give you knowledge about perspective? I'm sorry but that's hilarious.

I'm not saying don't eliminate that book from your library, but I'm saying that there are books that are WAY better than Norling's

[Anonymous No.2147430]

>>2147425
uhh...

That's why it's shit. Vilppu lectures are much better at teaching you how to actually "see" form. Whatever man. I think fun with a pencil is a waste of time tbh.

[Anonymous No.2147434]

>>2147430
>my opinions are why it's shit

uhh...

[Anonymous No.2147466]

>>2147363
>same argument every time
>not being able to critically interpret information that is presented to you
>hurr durr it looks funny must b shit

[Anonymous No.2147481]

>>2143436
can I just clarify for op if it hasn't already been brought up.

ADOBE CS2 is NOT FREE
the download is there for people who have an official licence. in terms of legality, might as well just pirate latest cc edition.

[Anonymous No.2147501]

>>2147429
Nigga you don't have olson in that picture.

[Anonymous No.2147519]

>>2147273
Also the kneading eraser.
And I'll probably put in Drawn to Life. There are a lot of simple principles that work for everything in it.

[Anonymous No.2147526]

>>2147481
I just downloaded it and installed the key a couple months ago, it should work unless something has changed recently. The fact is some of the hosts have been getting the key wrong.

[Anonymous No.2147539]

>>2147481
It seems you're right.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adriankingsleyhughes/2013/01/07/download-adobe-cs2-applications-for-free/

Stupid Adobe, I'll show them. I'll show them all!

[Anonymous No.2147571]

>>2147384
>"lead holder"

[Anonymous No.2147778]

If only someone made this kind of list, but for painting.

[Anonymous No.2149693]

>>2144374
Did another one, still got a ways to go.
Doing these take a lot out of me, but I'm still trying to capture the gesture. I'll do some more Vilppu manual Chapter 1 to get better hold on it.

[Anonymous No.2149698]

>>2149693
AWAKEN MY MASTERS

[Anonymous No.2149703]

>wacom too expensive
>eletricpencilsharpener.jpg

I could put at least a dozen recommendations on top of that. Well, at least
you had the initiative.
But you can't talk about all this education without mentioning Lynda, Gnomon or DT.

[Anonymous No.2149706]

>>2149703
>muh precious $10

Electric sharpeners are a fantastic investment if you value your time in the slightest. If you want to talk about wastes of money talk to mr. lead holder over there and his $1 a piece leads, lel.

[Anonymous No.2149849]

Anyone used this one before?

This sharpener has never failed me, I'd always chose it above all the fancy electric ones

[Anonymous No.2149851]

>>2149849
Staedtler broke my heart and my pencils ( >2145073
), I don't know if I can love a manual sharpener again.

[Anonymous No.2150665]

>>2143436
Manga studio is better than photoshop for ilustraion