Hostile working condition

[Anonymous No.2034127]

>Many people in the game development industry are young, self taught, fresh out of college; people hoping to make a living on something they love. When full time employment is presented as a possible reward for hard work, many will push themselves too far, either to prove their worth as an employee, or simply because they desperately need a steady income.

>The industry actively searches for “passionate” employees. People who are so happy to be working with games that they don’t make demands about payment or healthy work conditions. This kind of passion is usually found in juniors, interns or people who are new to the industry, and these kinds of employees are seen as expendable. A minimal effort might be spent on keeping them satisfied, but if they demand actual fair payment for their work, they’ll be replaced.


https://modelviewculture.com/pieces/the-expendables-how-game-development-standards-are-inherently-harmful

>Gavriil's comment

http://pastebin.com/WZBXjApL


Hope you guys are prepared.

[Anonymous No.2034128]

I told you about capitalism dawg

[Anonymous No.2034130]

>tfw you're not american

[Anonymous No.2034131]

>>2034127

obviously talking about feng. i immediatly believed longs, bens and eduardos story. they had/have no reason to lie they just tried to keep some secrecy in order to avoid being seen as drama-causers etc. and now gavril confirms half the industry knows feng is a scumbag.

[Anonymous No.2034133]

Thank you for sharing this op, it is always good to remind people, that some would make use of their motivation, homo homini lupus est.
It's best to watch out.

[Anonymous No.2034144]

Funny how i instantly knew a woman wrote this article.

[Anonymous No.2034149]

So basicly many people in this industry are whiny bitches, who want comfort, but wont stand up and risk their head to get it.

Feels good to have a spine.

Also this >>2034130

[Anonymous No.2034153]

>>2034149
>want comfort, but wont stand up and risk their head to get it.

did I hear americans?

[Anonymous No.2034160]

>>2034127
>competition and employers being dicks
>hostile working condition
jeez what did you expect, a drinking strawberry juice while looking at the clouds hand in hand club?

[Anonymous No.2034166]

>>2034160
aaaahh.. the younguns these days

[Anonymous No.2034249]

Sorry /ic but its true, special effect, animation and gaming industries are meat grinders, terrible working conditions, wage fixing, zero job security.

You will bust your ass and get into huge debt just to get a job texturing the hub caps on a vidya game cars for the next 4 years.

Bu...but you see, I 'made it!'

[Anonymous No.2034263]

>>2034153
>security over privacy

Someone nuke us

[Anonymous No.2034265]

Disney was in cahoots with other big studious. They exploit artist's salary.
Look at this
http://ukitakumuki.deviantart.com/art/Edge-of-Tomorrow-Pitch-Art-1-2010-457550849
And look at Konami right now. Kickstarter is future

[Anonymous No.2034271]

>2015
>not being a general freelance illustrator
>not tackling the world of social media to rise to prominence and to gain credibility
>not charging $100/hr+ to work in a style of illustration that you enjoy
>not landing remote work from employers that respect you and your time
>not reaping the joy of having thousands of fans online
>greentexting

I can't fathom why everyone on this board is obsessed with getting into game development. There are much easier avenues of illustration to break into that pay better and have way less hours than conceptual art.

[Anonymous No.2034300]

>>2034249
Fuck off, Misa.

[Anonymous No.2034313]

>>2034271
Like album art or printing?
I dont even know

[Anonymous No.2034314]

>>2034265
Kickstarter is also shit though

[Anonymous No.2034320]

>>2034314
I love watching "kickstarter nonstarters".
Its just people who dont know how to market at all

[Anonymous No.2034396]

>>2034149
>>2034160
not sure about the art side of things, but the programming side of things is absolutely terrible. Its not a matter of comfort or such, they basically work you 16+ hours a day for relatively shit pay. the gaming industry is absolutely horrible toward their employees when the same employees could be working someone far better and getting paid far more if they didn't have a hard on for video games.

[Anonymous No.2034398]

>>2034396
Code monkey life is worst life

[Anonymous No.2034402]

>>2034396

Both sides have fuckups like this. Tim Scheafer who fails all deadlines and blows the budget for no idea what. Ubishit fucking up programmers.

Then you have valve. The opposite where teams complain valve was giving them too much time and pushingback release dates.

Point is. If you get treated like utter shit by a big company. And keep silent abput it and not warn fellow artists. You deserve it.

[Anonymous No.2034412]

>>2034271

Do you do this? If so, please post some work so we can see what level you need to be to pull this off. If not, you may be delusional.

[Anonymous No.2034420]

>>2034402
>Then you have valve. The opposite where teams complain valve was giving them too much time and pushingback release dates.

Why would their employees complain about this? I mean I could see how it would be a negative thing, with things moving too slowly and people losing motivation or something, but it seems like not that bad of a problem to have all things considered.

[Anonymous No.2034431]

>>2034420

I think ot was turtle rock saying that or someone working on one of the l4d titles. Basicly they work best under pressure qith set deadlines so they get shit done and not get bogged down in changing things over and over and getting stuck in some developing limbo.

[Anonymous No.2034435]

>>2034431
Still seems to me like a pretty good problem to have if you're going to have a problem. Valve has always seemed to me like a good company to work for, especially when you look at a lot of the shit going on in other companies.

[Anonymous No.2034445]

Literally the first and last sentence I read.
>It is simply a kingdom; exploitative, patriarchal and archaic
>patriarchal
>written by a woman
Well there ya go. Move on people.

[Anonymous No.2034473]

>>2034445
B-but the oppression!

[Anonymous No.2034483]

all americans think this kind of thing is fair and desirable and everything should work like this. you're wasting your time, OP.

[Anonymous No.2034498]

>>2034445

[Anonymous No.2034499]

lol what. None of this is true. Working at a studio is super chill as an artist 90% of the time. That last bit is just crunch time at the end of the project.

concept artist for 5 years now.

[Anonymous No.2034501]

>>2034445

oh gross. do these morons have to drag their sjw politics into everything?

[Anonymous No.2034504]

>>2034501
Do men have to shove their archaic patriarchal kingdom everywhere?

[Anonymous No.2034506]

>>2034504

Yes because it works

[Anonymous No.2034507]

>>2034435
No, its not. Without deadlines management will never make a decision.

This is my biggest complaint about being a concept artist. A modeler has a set schedule of how long they can work on something. As in, this object will take x days to create a block model, UV, texture, and get in game. What they get at the end of that allowed time is what they get. That shit doesn't change unless its really really and is put into the schedule under review.

A lot of times when a producer(not the AD) gives me a task they assume I can just whip something up real quick. And when I finally present the concepts the dumb fucking producer will throw out a couple of terrible ideas and say "How about we make it more BLUE?" or "Did you guys just play this new game that came out? We should change our ENTIRE ART DIRECTION to better reflect this trend!"

Then they wonder why I am behind schedule on a concept that should have taken only a day because they couldn't make up their god damn minds.

This is why having a team without management and deadlines is a terrible fucking idea. It's not that people work better under pressure its that they need a fucking deadline or everything gets reworked a thousand times.

TLDR producers are the fucking worst.

[Anonymous No.2034508]

>>2034506
If it works, why didn't womyn invent it?

Checkmate, rapist scum.

[Anonymous No.2034512]

>>2034498
who is this and plz be female. reverese image search turns up nothing

[Anonymous No.2034513]

>>2034499
Nice try Feng Zhu

[Anonymous No.2034514]

>>2034507
>A modeler has a set schedule of how long they can work on something.
>Then they wonder why I am behind schedule on a concept that should have taken only a day
I don't get it, how are you behind schedule if there aren't deadlines?

[Anonymous No.2034518]

>>2034512
Nigga, look at those hands. Not only is it not female, his dick is probably bigger than yours.

[Anonymous No.2034519]

>>2034514

You were supposed to just know when the wanted it done.

[Anonymous No.2034520]

>>2034514
My schedule is a bit more lenient. When we first start pre pro on a new project things are very very loose. This is also the worst because there aren't any hard deadlines. Getting tasked to create keyart or storyboards with "Oh we got like... a few weeks before the rest of the team starts up" and the fuckin execs focus on a single piece of art.

It's pre pro work, but it always bleeds into production because mother fuckers don't have hard deadlines to keep so they just want more and more tweaks until we get to the point of "Oh shit, the animation team needs to start working on this."

What I'm trying to say is when the team finally realizes they are out of time is when the most shit gets done.

[Anonymous No.2034525]

>>2034519
Fuckin worst is when I am already balls deep in work some producer will pop in at 5pm and be like "Hey, the modeling team needs to start their next group of objects tomorrow could you do that for us real quick?"

And that will be the first I had ever heard of that task.

Or when they ask for estimates and I'm like "It will take my concept team about 25 days to do this work" and the producer says "Yeah we have 3 days"

Thanks asshole.

No one knows how art is created even in an artist filled environment. It's amazing.

[Anonymous No.2034526]

Games industry is brutal.

>hire a junior straight out of college
>work him til breaking point for shit pay
>year later
>lay him off
>hire another fresh graduate
>repeat

[Anonymous No.2034527]

>>2034271
This, this x1000000

Seriously, do some research. There's so many things out there. Book covers, selling prints at conventions (some people live solely off of selling at cons), the whole traditional gaming realm, literally everything needs art, even doing a kickstarter to make your own book or set of prints, or patreon, so on and so forth.

But this can't be done without a good fan base. Instagram and livestreaming are apparently some of the best ways to garner attention. Cultivate what you share (only share art on your FB or only post personal stuff on your personal account) and be consistent, and if you're good, everything else will follow.

If you know what you're worth and how good you are, you won't be scrambling for anything you can get, you'll be able to pick and choose only the best jobs

[Anonymous No.2034533]

>>2034514
manager makes estimates to put into the schedule. I will break down my work flow and say " This character will take me 1/2 day to collect reference, 1/2 a day to make quick thumbnails. Have meetings with the AD and producers associated with the task. If I'm lucky I'll come out of that meeting with an idea of what they want to see. So then I spend 1/2 a day creating rough sketches, pass those along to the AD for feedback, clean em up, then start working on color swatches which takes another 1/2 day until I have 6-7 variations for the producers to look at in the next review. Odds are they will want to fucking change everything about the character and I start from the beginning again but if I'm super duper lucky they will all agree on something. Most of the time the AD does not give a shit about any of this and I'm left to fend for myself and for the other concept artists (i'm the senior concept artist). So depending on how much time was spent I can either just google a bunch of fucking images and do material call outs for the modelers (pray its not for the out sourcing team) or I get to have fun and actually spend a day painting. A single character takes a week normally. Thats for a rough painting. The majority of the work is meetings, variations, revisions, and getting everyone to agree.

Sometimes a concept with a day estimate can take 2 weeks. Deadlines are a godsend.

[Anonymous No.2034535]

>>2034271
>Wanting to deal with fucking contracts and getting your clients to actually pay you.
>Not wanting to hang out with other artist's and play video games afterwork
>Not getting early access to new industry content
>Not wanting steady paycheck, benefits, ect

Ah when we got those ps4 and xbone devkits it was an exciting day.

[Anonymous No.2034537]

>>2034533
I hope the money's good, you almost make drawing porn sound like the better carrier.

[Anonymous No.2034538]

>>2034526
No studio I have worked out did this. It's a lot of fucking work and time to train someone on your workflow and software. Most people that leave do so on their own. It gets boring working on the same project for 4 years.

not to say there aren't mass layoffs. Those days are the worst.

[Anonymous No.2034540]

>>2034527
> Book covers
Photoshopped images nowadays.
> (some people live solely off of selling at cons)
That sounds fucking impossible considering the:
-cost of travel
-cost of tickets
-cost of a booth
-cost of renting a hotel
-wanting to buy things yourself at conventions or even just eating dinner
any many others. Maybe you can get some chump change.
>the whole traditional gaming realm
doing art for tabletop games or cards or whatever is not a thriving business.
>even doing a kickstarter
>patreon
Those two things are "lightning in a bottle" situations that not everyone can capitalize on.
>and be consistent, and if you're good, everything else will follow.
You're fucking delusional.

[Anonymous No.2034541]

>>2034535
>playing videgames
shiggy

[Anonymous No.2034542]

>>2034512
Sarina Valentina

>>2034518
>Yes, she has a penis.

[Anonymous No.2034543]

>>2034542
I admit I'm disappointed with its size.

[Anonymous No.2034549]

>>2034537
It's very rewarding though. I have been the one spearheading our last few projects and creating the pitches to the execs. I love being able to sit down with a room of other people that get shit done. Once my studio realized that good art in their pitches meant a higher success of funding I was given a lot more creative control. Our AD is more on the technical side rather than creative so that gives me a bit more say as well.

Producers are still fucking idiots with absolutely no creativity or artistic training. They are the worst part of the job.

I wouldn't do this if I wasn't able to actually influence the visual style and design of the project. Larger studios treat their artists more like factory workers. They are told to just sit there and do what they are told with their feedback falling on deaf ears.

That last part is why I hate freelance illustration. it's a good feeling being the person others go to for answers. It's still super frustrating when the EPs have conflicting ideas of where the project should go.

[Anonymous No.2034552]

I work in a medium sized Game Dev studio. It's hard, I work much overtime and the payment is shitty. But I wouldn't call the enviroment hostile - people are very nice.

I agree that big studios tend to exploit young people tough. Its no secret that many big Studios employ young, inexperienced artists only as interns - even if they are worthy of a Junior position. Then they squeeze everything they can out of them and after three months is over, they get a new one. They get tons and tons of applications of various artists, they are free to pick and choose. This way they get capable, ultramotivated, dirt cheap workers they can exploit with out ever giving them decent money.

This, and excessive overtime is a problem in every creative branche. But nowhere is it as bad as in the game industry. Nowhere you'll find so many people that would do anything for a whiff of their dream. Of course this will be exlpoited. This is why the working conditions are fucking shit.
I was lucky I get a job with nice people. But the games we make are still boring (it has to sell) and the payment is, well, shit. It's the bare minimum of what a person needs.

But that's what you get. If you want money and security ... don't become a game artist.
I rephrase that - don't become an artist

[Anonymous No.2034570]

>>2034144
This.

[Anonymous No.2034586]

The entertainment industry has always been like this.

[Anonymous No.2034601]

>>2034586
Those guys were fucking based.

The same thing is happening RIGHT NOW in the industry, but the new, pussy tumblr generation just takes it up their rear ends.

[Anonymous No.2034604]

>>2034540
Again
> do your research
This is all speculation, you don't know what you're talking about
>never gonna make it

[Anonymous No.2034610]

>>2034127
Daily reminder that if we lived in the soviet union we would be given free cintiqs because they are our means of production.

[Anonymous No.2034615]

>>2034127

I have no other talent

[Anonymous No.2034617]

>>2034549
Can you give a breakdown of what your day to day is like? Such as how much time is actually spent painting and designing imaginary worlds and how much is spent collaging photos, training artists under you, and doing management or administrative scheduling type tasks?
What about for an entry level concept artist?

[Anonymous No.2034637]

>>2034604
>This is all speculation
It's the goddamn truth, you're a retard.

>durr artists can completely live of conventions that even going to as a spectator eat away your money XD

[Anonymous No.2034647]

>>2034637
Listen to all of these. You could use some education. https://www.youtube.com/user/Bugmeyer/videos

also all of these: http://seanwes.com/podcast-archive/
You're welcome

[Anonymous No.2034672]

I understand that you guy's are so worried but you don't have to work in the gaming industry forever.
From what I understand people only work on games for 5-10 years before they quit to settle with families.
You can freelance or start a design studio and get outsourced works from the bigger studios.
Heck you can work full time illustrating board games and card games for wizards and such.

It probably isn't glorious to work hard for low pay but it probably beats being shit at drawing and posting on 4chan on a friday evening.
Consider that.

[Anonymous No.2035539]

>>2034617
Like, the first hour or two of my day is just replying to emails and setting up meetings. I need to talk to the modeling team, the animators, go over design documents and figure out which tasks will require concepts or not.

Then about mid morning we have our concept meeting where all the artists go over what they did the other day get new tasks, crit each other, and choose new tasks from my list of needed concepts. The individual concept artist will meet up with any designer, modeler, animator, producer, and art director associated with their task.

About an hour before lunch is when I actually start painting anything. So in the last 4 hours only 1 hour of it was painting. After lunch, I usually get a couple more hours of actually painting. usually around 3 or 4pm I get sucked into some design reviews to tell the designers their ideas just aren't feasible with our current engine or technical budget and they need to rewrite their shit to something that's actually doable in-game.

After about 4-5pm people start to individually bring their work to me to ask for help or critiques or any general questions. So we have a team of 8 animators, dozen modelers, couple UI guys, 4 concept dudes, 1 AD and a pretty sizable outsourced team that needs feedback. Like I said before, our art director is more on the technical side. He will mostly assist the artists dealing with rigging, shaders, uvs, and engineering. If it's a style decision I usually make the call on those.

I usually go in around 8am and go home around 7pm. Normally we have *lunch* meetings so I don't really get much of a break through out the day.

So in a 10 hour day I get about 4-5 hours of painting. most of the time less than that cus I am putting together style guides and concept boards for the team to reference. The other concept artists get to paint a lot more and they get to go home earlier than I do. The AD usually stays until 10pm trying to fix all the animators shit.

[Anonymous No.2035541]

>>2035539
to add, most of the work is not photobashing. It's usually just rough sketches.

This is the day of a senior concept artist.

[Anonymous No.2035546]

>>2034672
Yes, and what job is a person supposed to get after those 5-10 years? Truck driving?

[Anonymous No.2035577]

If you love developing games, find other who also love that and develop your own games for your own profit.

[Anonymous No.2035592]

>If you act like a man and take no shits, people will maybe start to respect you and your work
>Then some pussy comes and do what you used to do for less

[Anonymous No.2035593]

>>2035539
Sweet Jesus you sound like one of those unorganized 90lb twats always going around the office saying shit like, "Come on you guys let's get it together this time" or "I really need you guys to deliver this on time, I'm serious." Probably said in a whiny voice. I bet you're continuously nodding the entire fucking day.

Wish you could give us hint about where you work, so we can avoid it like the plague.

[Anonymous No.2035597]

>>2035593
Not the poster you're reacting to, but that sounds like me.

[Anonymous No.2035638]

>>2034610
>Cintiqs
>russiastronk allowing you to touch a capitalist tool
You would get a USSR aproved triangular drawing tablet (we can't have the same capitalist design!) who shits itself everytime you use it for more than one hour.
It would have a sandpaper-like drawing area so your nibs would rip in less than a week but you can't just buy new nibs, you have to start a bureaucratic paperwork process to receive ONE new nib in 5 years.
When drawing you'll be required to stream your work to the government to guarantee your not using it for capitalist-propaganda or drawing porn with people's money.

Yes you would get a free drawing tablet but other people would say what you can or can't do. Such a great environment for a new artist!

[Anonymous No.2035687]

>>2035638

Again the capitalist pit vyper spews forth his lies like the pungent belch of overfed robber baron. COMINtiq is ten thousand times superior to reactionary Maoist trash that I would rather use as door mat. Drawing surface is forged from diamond glass yet is soft as the breast of Kiev mother, unlike yours which feels like dry chest of anemic whore. Nib is not weak plastic but rather steel as it is the only material that will hold up to the speed at which I draw one thousand busts of Lenin each morning just to warm up. When one melts from my hand in revolutionary fervor, more rain from the sky like grain in record breaking bumper harvest of 5 year plan. The display is atomic powered and each day I bask in it's shine for it is the guiding light of Socialism. Unlike reactionary pornographer who hides in the dark and rubs his dick as if greasing tractor, I proudly display the fruits of my labor for all to see.

Read this and cry, as I cry for you.

[Anonymous No.2035895]

>>2035638
>>2035687

this made me lol so hard. you are both awesome

[Anonymous No.2036016]

>>2035539
Hey, I'm the original one who asked the question, thanks a bunch for taking the time to answer!
>I get sucked into some design reviews to tell the designers their ideas just aren't feasible with our current engine or technical budget and they need to rewrite their shit to something that's actually doable in-game.

When you say designers do you mean the game designers who decide and balance mechanics/gameplay, or designers as in other concept artists? How come you're expected to be knowledgable about the engine enough know which ideas are feasible...do you mean just the modeling/animating/vfx side of it?

Do the entry level concept artists also get rough sketches work, or is it photobashing and redrawing lines for clean up?
What is your job like when the game is no longer in preproduction?

I'm currently a student studying a non-art related major (computer science)...I've been using my school's few game design project courses to work on art for different game projects and I use the time that I'm not dying to my actual non-art schoolwork for self teaching art. I'm determined to make a living through painting, and I believed that concept art was the best way to do it. I am soon to graduate and have been/am basing several life decisions on that assumption, but I realized that I really don't know enough about it from true accounts of peoples experiences...all my info is based off what I've read online. I was hoping you would be willing to get in touch with me off of this site. If so, send an email to [e-mail] and we can get in touch non anonymously from there (won't be able to reply until around 2 days from now though because -although taking a break to reply to this - I'm in the middle of a 48hr game jam).
If you prefer to remain anonymous I completely understand though...hope you might be open to answering any more questions on 4chan at least. Thanks again for answering my questions previously.

[Anonymous No.2036120]

>>2034445
>>patriarchal
I remember Jane Jensen saying her being a woman didn't mater at all in her game dev career and that she don't know why people even make it a gender thing.

[Anonymous No.2036184]

>>2034507
Now I see what my dad is always whining about on the phone. (He's a creative director for amazon, constantly brings up his producers.)

[Anonymous No.2036243]

>>2036120
Isn't she the one who took it back and held those seminars on it though?

[Anonymous No.2036682]

>>2034508
Shitposting aside.
Have women ever implemented something that works?

[Anonymous No.2036697]

>>2034540
>doing art for tabletop games or cards or whatever is not a thriving business.
No son, you are delusional. Editorial will always be the best freelance work both books and /tg/.
Why? It actually has deadlines and paychecks come in time.