/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.1962366]

I would like to take a moment to remind all of you that if you want to be a well known American comic book illustrator you only have to draw as well as this.

What I'm trying to say is don't get so upset and critical about your current artwork or slow progress. You're probably better than a lot of others.

[Anonymous No.1962381]

>>1962366

B-but I want to be a well known American animu book illustrator.

[Anonymous No.1962552]

>>1962366
what you actually need is connections, this guy obviously new somebody who could get him a chance

[Anonymous No.1962560]

>>1962366
You realize he is out of shape on purpose to signify that he is flying at high speeds right? I hate it when people take frames from animations and action scenes from comics and try to use them as examples of bad proportion/anatomy. Just sayin.

[Anonymous No.1962563]

>selects purposely deformed frame as an example of "shoddy work"
>erroneously displays the frame as a representation of the artist's entire work

I don't think you understand how art works yet, faggot.

[Anonymous No.1962565]

>>1962552
His father was a great comicbook artist

[Anonymous No.1962578]

You just have to be this good.

[Anonymous No.1962621]

>>1962552

Uh, obviously, considering his Dad was the art director at Marvel.

He was a better artist in his youth (pic related) but JRJR's art wouldn't fly if he was a newbie today. In the days of yesteryear you just had to be able to draw in the house style. JRJR was of the same generation as John Byrne and Frank Miller but he was able to stay mainstream during the Xtreme 90s and now he gets work based solely on his name. He's pretty shameless about crapping out whatever he can to meet his deadlines and get paid. He's also the co-creator of Kick Ass and got fat royalty checks off of the movies.

The comic book industry is a funny business. Huge talent pool and few jobs, so quality so be top-notch 100% of the time, right? But because deadlines are so tight faster artists are given a pass if their work is shittier. And guys like Chris Samnee who are both fast and awesome rise to the top.

[Anonymous No.1962630]

>>1962560
>>1962563
>it sucks ON PURPOSE

[Anonymous No.1962643]

>>1962630
Yeah, basically.

[Anonymous No.1962656]

>>1962621

this is what always gets me wondering. I keep hearing about these deadlines and shit. And yet the comics are monthly, or weekly at best. And the weekly shit are ussually manga with under 20 pages and no colouring, the workload is mostly spread between the main artist and helpers who do background.

So how fast does one actually have to be? Thats like 3 pages a day of characters you have to draw. With helpers drawing the backgrounds (probably you sketch them in a bit).

The western comics iirc are not even weekly. So you should have even more time. Yes, its obviously important to be spot on the deadlines. But it seems like they get a lot of time to meet them if they are competent artists.

[Anonymous No.1962666]

>>1962578
every time.every time i see this i can't help myself to think WHY this motherfucker work at the marvel and not me?are they blind?WHY?

[Anonymous No.1962667]

>>1962666
rob liefeld is a douche.

[Anonymous No.1962670]

>>1962666
well i mean, if you can't see what's good about his stuff then it's because you're a dumb motherfucker and dumb motherfuckers don't get good jobs.

or even worse, you're a bitter motherfucker who won't see the good in something because he's smeared jelly all over his face.

[Anonymous No.1962671]

>>1962666
Because you still can't draw manly men.

Break dat comfort zone.

[Anonymous No.1962674]

>>1962670
>>what's good about his stuff

[Anonymous No.1962681]

>>1962674
>that tiny ass black square

[Anonymous No.1962682]

>>1962667
>that short feminine lower body on a dude on the left

ugh

[Anonymous No.1962704]

>if you want to be a well known American comic book illustrator you only have to draw as well as this.

That's not an illustration that's a single comic panel. And no, you have to draw and paint about as well as this if you want to make it as a well known comic book illustrator.

[Anonymous No.1962734]

>>1962656
>With helpers drawing the backgrounds
Comics aren't manga in the sense that they have assistants working for them. Majority of comic book artists draw everything themselves.

You have less than a month to draw a comic. More like about three weeks at most, and the artist typically draws covers as well, and then work a bit on the next comic issue after you're done with the previous. You'll also need to ink shit if you aren't paying an inker. This is excluding time used to thumbnail, changes the writer requests, etc.

Not to mention that other components (mainly colourists) depend on you to provide pages on time or else you'll bring the whole project down.

[Anonymous No.1962738]

/ic/ can you please convince/explain what is so great with comic-art? Genuinely want to know what the appeal is since I know nothing about it, is there any artists worth checking out and why ?

[Anonymous No.1962743]

>>1962734
aren't they got pencillers, inkers, colorists and all that?

[Anonymous No.1962744]

>>1962738
It's very interesting form of storytelling. You should probably check out Understanding comics by Scott Mccloud, it's fun read.
Also J. H. Williams is ma nigga.

[Anonymous No.1962745]

>>1962738
Entertainment.

[Anonymous No.1962746]

>>1962744
(I don't know why I suddenly started typing like a drunken Polack.)

[Anonymous No.1962747]

>>1962744
Will give those books a go, the only one I know that is part of comics would be David Finch, pretty cool stuff to be fair but there is so many comics and I think I missed out on them to begin with so I never got into them. :(
>>1962745
Granted.

[Anonymous No.1962749]

>>1962738
They're drawings, I don't see how you don't understand the appeal of it.

[Anonymous No.1962791]

>>1962738
Being unimpressed by comic book art because the panels aren't as detailed as a hyperrealist painting is completely missing the point of the medium.

[Anonymous No.1962914]

>>1962656

In Western comics you need to draw about a page a day and you need to complete the issue inside of a month because pencilling is just stage one of the artistic production line. You need to leave time for the inker, colorist and letterer to do their work as well as leave time for the production department. So it's about three weeks to do 20 pages.

Each of those 20 pages needs to be composed and unless you're drawing entirely in splash pages you need to compose every panel as well, so even though theres 20 pages it usually means drawing 100-500 images.

Times have also changed. In the old days an artist could draw two books a month or more. John Byrne could pencil a page in three hours. All an artist had to do was pencil in the figures and background, the inker would tighten it up and determine the shading. Nowadays artwork is more detailed and more time is required. Greg Capullo, the current artist on Batman, draws in a very detailed style and he works 12-16 hours a day, seven days a week to meet deadlines.

[Anonymous No.1962970]

>>1962366
if your passion for art is so nonexistent you're fine with being as good as OP pic, you're probably better off without an art career

[Anonymous No.1963095]

>>1962366
how much do you get paid for be a penciller comics in norhtamerica?

also i just know a little detail there are many mexicans artist working for marvel
cheaper worker or what

[Anonymous No.1963098]

>>1962914
it´s true jack kirby do 4 comics monthly?

[Anonymous No.1963101]

I think the new Squirrel Girl or Ms.Marvel are good examples at just how low the bar is set right now. Hell, Squirrel Girl has been recieving and overwhelmingly positive response and it relies on randumb humor and the artist can't even into design, gesture, color, line weight, composition.... anything really.

[Anonymous No.1963108]

>>1963101
/co/ here. Ms. Marvel doesn't have phenomenal art by any means, but it fits with the type of story they're trying to tell, for the most part.

Squirrel Girl is an abomination in both storytelling and art.

[Anonymous No.1963113]

>>1963108
I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree on any sort of quality in Ms. Marvel. It's loaded with rediculous stereotypes, meme bullshit, and is written to pander.. well, at least from the first issues I read. It may have gotten better, but Marvel is so painfully political with their writing that I'm not about to get involved in any of their current stories... Also
>ruining Venom and turning him into a green lantern
>doing a giant crossover with all the spider-men only to kill them in horrible ways and defile beloved toku spider-man
>canceling almost everything involving superior Scarlet Spider
>canceling new Ghost Rider
>diversity washing all characters just because

They are turrible.

[Anonymous No.1963116]

>>1963113
It has a pretty rapid increase in quality from issue one. Issue one was "Look at all these teen muslim problems I'm having" and went to "look at all these teen problems I'm having". Not my cup of tea, but if you like your high school era Spidey...

I agree with you on everything other than Captain Falcon (Black Cap) because that's pretty good. FemThor isn't great but I like Unworthy Thor

But it mostly doesn't matter now because the Secret Wars event is hitting the soft reboot button.

[Anonymous No.1963138]

>>1963101
I referenced something like this in another comic book thread on /ic/ here >>>1961941

[Anonymous No.1963155]

>>1962366
>implying I just want to be well known
>implying I don't want to be great
I don't want to be one of those guys who butcher anatomy and call it house-style, drawing the same thing over and over. I want to be one of the greats, stay true to myself, have fun with my art. It's going to be hard and I'll have to spend years sending my stuff to smaller companies while I work another job. I'm not sure I'll ever be good enough. There's a good chance I will fail. But I have to try, don't I ?

[Anonymous No.1963358]

>>1963098

His involvement in different books varied. On some books he did full pencils and on others he just did the rough layouts which were pencilled over by other artists. He formed the basis of the Marvel house style but once their line started expanding they spread him thinner so he did a lot of layouts for other artists, which let him continue to define the style and write the stories (Stan Lee contributed very little story-wise) while covering a wider number of books.

The Fantastic Four was his main book and he pencilled the first #102 issues. He also started off The Avengers, The Hulk, Thor, X-Men, Sgt. Fury, Ant-Man and Captain America. The only major 60s characters characters he didn't work on much (or at all) were Daredevil, Iron Man (Jack is credited as a co-creator for designing the original costume but the red and gold design was created by Steve Ditko, who recieves no credit), Spider-Man and Dr Strange.

The rapid expansion of the Marvel line happened in 1963 and I'm positive that he fully penciled four issues at least once during that year.

>>1963113
>Marvel is so painfully political with their writing that I'm not about to get involved in any of their current stories

Same. It's pathetic pandering to the left. I wonder how many fanboys realize that Tony Stark was created by Stan Lee to be a right-wing, anti-communist, pro-Saigon war profiteer to be someone his audience would inherently disagree with. Now everyone needs to be a socially-conscious lefty so people forget that stinkies CUT PEOPLE'S FUCKING HEADS OFF.

[Anonymous No.1963366]

>>1963101
You are a moron. In every industry there are exceptionally bad artists who managed to get a gig thanks to connections or whatever, they don't represent the skill level needed to reliably find work in their respective industry.

[Anonymous No.1963486]

>>1963366
There are so many shit artists working at marvel it isn't even funny. I wish I could remember the name of this one artist who worked on the avengers. It was like every panel was some bad, BAD ripoff of Jojo, but marvel has had pretty low standards for a while now, remember their Manga phase?

We live in a time where basically anything is accepted so long as you're pandering to the right people. The shittiest art is forgiven if you say the right words. People's demand for quality is basically gone, art is all about personal satisfaction now and how much you actually want from yourself. Of course, I feel like the genuine work and effort put into gitting gud will always shine through, especially for those who treat it as a life long process.

[Anonymous No.1963521]

>>1963486

The thing is few editors are trained artists and don't give a fuck if your fundamentals are weak. Yeah pandering is where the money is at, of course it is. It's a business, the whole point of it is to make something other people want.

Marvel's standards haven't fallen as much as they've disappeared completely. Until the Bill Jemas era the standard was their house style. Now Marvel is actually publishing diverse art styles and as a result there are more artists using a wide variety of styles.

The idea that it's only now that people don't care about quality is bullshit. The general public has always been very forgiving. There was a time where Rob Liefeld was the hottest artist at Marvel. Jack Kirby blatantly ignored things like anatomy and perspective and he's the fucking King. It's always been about the idea rather than how well it's being rendered. Today's audience is much wiser. In the 60s Steve Ditko was Marvel's "bad" artist because he didn't draw like Jack Kirby, even though he was technically a superior artist. His style was offputting and strange and that was enough. Now bad artists are guys like Rob Liefeld and Greg Land, who are so fucking shitty that plebs who don't even know what the fundamentals are can see how shit they are.

Being a legitimately good artist does reap rewards in the comic world. The people willing to spend money on originals, sketches and commissions are more discerning and if you get on their good side you can earn quite a bit of money outside of your published work. This is how legends of the medium like Gene Colan were able to stay afloat long after professional work dried up.

[Anonymous No.1963618]

>>1962667
Fuck, if there's one thing I hate about character design, it's the pouches. Goddamn, useless pouches strapped everywhere. How much bullshit are they issuing henchman that they need thigh pouches, waist pouches and arm pouches?

When I was an infantryman in Iraq and Afghanistan, I had 7 goddamn pouches. 4 for my SAW drums, 1 for frags, 1 for NODs, and 1 for my smokes/beef jerky.

Lazy fucking character design is what it is.

[Anonymous No.1963624]

>>1962630
>muh realism

Get back to your thread-to-thread preaching of Loomis's word.

[Anonymous No.1963637]

>>1963521
Don't forget Steve Dillon, even though he holds a special place in my heart.

[Anonymous No.1963671]

>>1963486

shit artists at marvel
shit colorists at dc

what is a boy to read

[Anonymous No.1963673]

>>1963671
One Punch Man.

[Anonymous No.1963680]

>>1963101
Appeal is mre important than fundamentals for people in general.

[Anonymous No.1963699]

>>1963624
>muh strawman

It isn't realistic and it isn't exaggerated attractively, either.

[Anonymous No.1963708]

>>1963680
I wouldn't even say that seeing as both of those comics have about as much appeal as an Andrew Dobson drawing.

I actually do wonder what the minimum knowledge required to work on a comic is now. Seems like clean lines an some basic knowledge of proportions is really all you need.

[Anonymous No.1963719]

>>1963708
>Seems like clean lines an some basic knowledge of proportions is really all you need.
Not even proportions. Look at Liefeld or the guy that dras Shingeki no Kyojin. Even Tezuka had technical flaws. But he compensates by his awesome panelling and stories. I think when you're great in storytelling people don't actually care about your drawing level. /ic/ can spot the smallest mistakes but most people, the biggest part buying the most, can't see all this. Look at shit like Naruto selling so much.

[Anonymous No.1963722]

>>1963719
PS : sorry for my terrible english I'm drunk

[Anonymous No.1963733]

>>1962667
>>1963618
its because rob cant draw hips.
so he draws pouches over them.
he also cant show the curve of thighs without drawing pouches over then to show the line.

[Anonymous No.1963783]

>>1963733
Can this guy draw generic skeletons? I would like to see that.

[Anonymous No.1963932]

>>1963671
yeah
there is something wrong with dc batman color
feel so "low opacity" or sature don´t know

[Anonymous No.1964167]

>>1963932
>FCO
>Shit

[Anonymous No.1964421]

>>1963719
Well, that isn't quite right either seeing as barely anyone in Marvel or DC can into paneling any more, and the writing for squirrel girl was absolute shit but is critically praised.

So maybe just having clean lines and pandering with your writing is enough. You don't really need good writing or artwork, rather you just need to know the right notes to hit. Of course, I'd argue that the success you achieve with this will only be for a brief time and you'll never achieve greatness through it... but it can score you a living. Look at Penny Arcade or Fuckly, they are 90% pandering and 10% substance, yet they are able to(seemingly) live comfortably off their webcomic shit... though I do wonder why the same success hasn't hit Dobson?

[Anonymous No.1964424]

>>1963101
I feel like the only person who actually really enjoys squirrel girl's art. The writing is meh but the art is dynamic while still being fun. Lack of detail doesn't mean it's bad.

[Anonymous No.1964428]

>>1964424
The lack of detail isn't the problem, it's the lack of appeal, knowledge of perspective, knowledge of form, readable poses and actions, a crazy design that doesn't fit the character and was based of the designers butt ugly friend, background colors thrown in haphazardly, and no understanding of line weight. I think that's about it, but I could be missing a few. I honestly thought the comic was a bad, tumblr made fan comic at first.

[Anonymous No.1964460]

>>1964167

He's the exception though, Zero Year is fantastic. DC's regular house style is fucking garbage and every time they recolour something it's always worse for it.

[Anonymous No.1964462]

>>1964421

Squirrel Girl is one book and it's a fluke. In a business as fickle as comics flukes mean shit.

[Anonymous No.1964791]

>>1962578
lel

[Anonymous No.1965189]

>>1964167
still doesnt have
the living color like spawn
that batman color still opace

[Anonymous No.1967383]

>>1964462
I just think it's inspiring to people who are wanting to start up projects but are constantly stopping themselves. This art is what is considered acceptable. They are able to draw people into the story with art this bad. If that isn't a confidence booster I don't know what is.

And it's really not a fluke, Ms. Marvels art is also pretty awful. Different people, but the Bee and Puppycat comics have exceptionally bad art with novice artists who probably only doodled on their iPad from time to time. To me, the fact these things are sold, sell well, and have followings fills me with confidence more than anger or disappointment.

[Anonymous No.1967526]

I've been practicing with what is called a School Pen nib, and like other dip pen nibs I keep having the problem of a blob of ink dropping randomly on my paper. It's rare, but when it happens, it's deadly. Does anyone know how to prevent this?

[Anonymous No.1967549]

>>1967526

It's a fad aimed at a trendy audience. It'll pass and all of the shitty fag artists will be left without work.

>>1967383

You need to be vigilant about keeping the right amount of ink on the pen. You can actually look at it and see if it's prone to dripping: If theres a big bubble of ink hanging from the nib it'll drip.

[Anonymous No.1967577]

>>1967549
I see. I'll keep that in mind. I also have another question. Sometimes after I use my pen, I like to clean it off using bleach and/or water. Do you think it's okay to use bleach to clean the ink off the pen nib, or can it damage the nib?

[Anonymous No.1968269]

>>1962578

[Anonymous No.1968273]

>>1967577

I'm not sure. I use rubbing alcohol because it dissolves india ink and dries quickly.

[Anonymous No.1968309]

>>1967577
>>1968273
When my nib gets really gunked I'll clean 'em up with some rubbing alcohol, otherwise I'll swish 'em around in some hot water if they just aren't flowing the way I'd like.

[Anonymous No.1968337]

>>1968269
Tumblr pls

[Anonymous No.1968417]

>>1968269
Just admit you hate it because of the boobs.

[Anonymous No.1968432]

>>1968417
Not him but I hate it because of the everything. Retarded proportions are not sexy, they're retarded.

[Anonymous No.1968601]

>>1968432
sure buddy

[Anonymous No.1968613]

>>1968601
who is this semen demon

[Anonymous No.1968624]

>>1968613
Found it on Tumblr 2 years ago.
dont know man, sorry

[Anonymous No.1968625]

>>1968601
that picture looks too weird to be sexy

[Anonymous No.1968627]

>>1968625
that's the same shit people say about your face.

[Anonymous No.1968628]

>>1968625
seriously. my boner is angry. this picture is lies.

[Anonymous No.1968632]

>>1968627
ok rude

[Anonymous No.1968649]

>>1968432
Okay Jason

[Anonymous No.1968659]

you gotta be this \good to get in the big leagues

[Anonymous No.1968700]

>>1962366
You are aware he is John Romita's son and basically has job security because he's the son of a legend, aren't you?

[Anonymous No.1968719]

>>1962656
>So how fast does one actually have to be?
20 pages in 8 days according to Ramos.

[Anonymous No.1968811]

>>1962366
Except that that's pretty fucking well drawn.

For me, at least.

[Anonymous No.1968890]

>>1968625
Guys like flat chests too.
I can tell by the way you respond, that its your pet peeve.

>>1968627
niiiice

>>1968628
This pic is even more confused lies.
filename displays why

[Anonymous No.1968894]

>>1968890
Thats the last one I have of, uhh ya know, the human

[Anonymous No.1968907]

>>1962366
anywhere i could get tutorials on comic book shading? like the heavy dark inking shit. how do they do that magical stuff. somebody tell meee

[Anonymous No.1968938]

>>1968907
I'm curious also.

[Anonymous No.1968991]

>>1968907

Study values. It's just very high contrast lighting. There is no trick to it.

[Anonymous No.1972078]

Inking is so damn hard! I always fuck up somewhere! Damn its so fucking frustrating, i always lose motivation when that happens

[Anonymous No.1972171]

>>1972078

How comfortable are you with the tools? I spend a half hour each day just doodling with my G pen to maximize my control of it.

[Anonymous No.1972178]

>>1972171
I didn't like the g-pen, the lines were too thick for me. I went with spoon and school pens. I'm pretty abysmal with them though. Spoon is just too stiff for me, I'm starting to not like that one too

[Anonymous No.1974177]

>>1972078
keep practice
get over the frustration

the begin is always hard dude!!!!!

just practice
in a year you will see the results

[Anonymous No.1974185]

>>1972178

I thought the G-Pen would be too thick but when I bought it I was surprised by how thin I could get the lines. It's the only nib I've been able to fully control.

[Anonymous No.1974974]

>>1968613
Anna Song.