Is this kind of workflow cheating?

[Anonymous No.1921737]

This is my study of Bridgman's drawing, i do the same when i draw from photo, life or imagination.

The reason i'm wondering if this is cheating (creating gesture sketch and basic proportions, then draw over that) is because i've seen a lot of people draw directly, which is the harder.

[Anonymous No.1921741]

>>1921737

Yes, it absolutely is cheating. None of the respectable pros do it. Almost as bad as tracing over photos.

Avoid doing it before it becomes a habit.

[Anonymous No.1921752]

>>1921741
This. You are a cheater, OP and I will write to the olympic artist committee that you are to be disqualified from the arts immediately.

[Anonymous No.1921754]

>>1921737
trolling aside, no, but you'll eventually get burned out from redrawing the same thing.

[Anonymous No.1921756]

>>1921737
No it's not cheating. You are a beginner, if this method allows you to learn and understand the process better, then by all means do it.

Practice enough, put thought into your study and hopefully soon you'll be able to construct fluid gestures from imagination.

People here need to accept that the learning process is different for artist of all stages. Beginners need to focus on training the eyes to really look at your subject. This form of copying allows beginners to instill proportionate human figures in their visual library, as well as to help loosen their strokes.

[Anonymous No.1921759]

>using gesture and form to build up a drawing
>not just jumping straight into the contours

lmao get a hold of this pleb. lolol, do u even kim jong gi???

All kidding aside, what you're doing is probably the most important part about a drawing. Keep doing it.

[Anonymous No.1921771]

well.. you guys might troll but sad part is that this is how i actually feel.
And i know i'm not the only one.

this one is from photo.

[Anonymous No.1921773]

>>1921771
I can do direct stuff but I rather do sketchy sketches.

[Anonymous No.1921776]

>>1921737
Quite a few skilled comic book artists do quick sketches with coloured pencils.
It's not cheating, it's making it easier to get the form right and fast.

It's like looking at a picture for a fraction of a second, and copy what you've just saw. The brain works that way. It first checks what kind of form it has instead of looking at it as a whole.

It's one of the best learning processes imo

[Anonymous No.1921782]

>>1921773

how long did it took you to be able do draw directly?

[Anonymous No.1921787]

>>1921782
2~3 I guess, you can always start trying now just be aware of the proportion and think in forms.

[Anonymous No.1921796]

>>1921771
It's legit you dumb asshole. No rules, just tools.
Also, nice figure sketches, would look at again.

[Anonymous No.1921797]

is that sketchbook pro?

[Anonymous No.1921803]

Honestly, I think what you're doing is exactly what most people should be doing.

You're not just copying the lines/values you see, but are actively trying to understand its structure/form.

Don't worry about being able to draw directly well. I guarantee you that most pros out there do not draw directly, but do something similar to what you're doing. 99% of people are not Kim Jung Gi. Go watch some process videos or pictures and you'll see that yourself.

[Anonymous No.1921817]

>>1921737
It's a normal process and one that is taught and recommend often with figure drawing. It's especially useful for when you don't have a model and need to construct a figure on your own.

That being said, imo it is best to abandon this approach once you have internalized the forms quite well and instead focus on a more contour based approach. That will lead to more interesting figures that are more believable and less generic/boxy/constructed looking. There's a reason that the russian academies teach tons of construction but want all the quick poses to be done with contour only. The two methods complement each other rather well.

[Anonymous No.1921820]

>>1921737
No, that's what people do.
If you want to draw directly you should practice that some more.

[Anonymous No.1921833]

>>1921759
Kek. I like you anon

[Anonymous No.1921837]

Only very few professional artists draw directly and even fewer manage to get results that look remotely as strong as those artists who use a gesture as basis.

[Anonymous No.1921842]

>>1921837
Plenty of people draw directly, especially those that have reference for their images.

[Anonymous No.1921870]

>>1921842

show few examples

[Anonymous No.1921882]

>>1921870
Every old master, most illustrators from the last century, most oil painters. Construction has only existed for around a century at the most, and it is mostly useful for corrections or inventing things without a model/reference. And the best people at inventing figures anyhow don't use construction--Kim Jung Gi, Frazetta, Jana, Marko etc

[Anonymous No.1921894]

>>1921870

[Anonymous No.1921897]

>>1921882
>Every old master, most illustrators from the last century, most oil painters.
>Construction has only existed for around a century at the most, and it is mostly useful for corrections or inventing things without a model/reference.
>And the best people at inventing figures anyhow don't use construction--Kim Jung Gi, Frazetta, Jana, Marko
>And the best people
>Jana, Marko

i'm not sure if you are serious or trolling

[Anonymous No.1921908]

>>1921787

then i better quit because i draw for more than 4 years.

>>1921797
photoshop - pic related

>>1921817
>>focus on a more contour based approach

yeah that is something i should also focus. No matter what i draw, i usually construct first

[Anonymous No.1921910]

>>1921882
>And the best people at inventing figures anyhow don't use construction

lol you are a fucking moron. First of all, obviously artists who just copy references don't need construction as much as artists who need to invent figures from imagination. Secondly, Frazetta was a fucking master at gestures like none other. If he was able to draw figures without construction, like some of his direct sketchbook ink drawings you can find on the internet, it's because he had drawn thousands of figures already and knew exactly where his lines needed to go because he had the gesture in his head.

Also, the fact that you named Jana Schirmer as one of the BEST people at inventing figures is just fucking mindblowing. How about Milt Kahl? Glen Keane? Jin Kim? Iain McCaig? Francisco Herrera? Alessandro Barbucci? Wes Burt? Holy shit, how narrow can your horizon be to name Jana fucking Schirmer as one of the best artists at inventing figures, in the same sentence as Frazetta or even Marko and KJG?

You will NEVER, not in a million years, become good at inventing the human figure if you can't even do it by using construction. The artists who can, do the construction completely in their head because they have the experience to do so. They could easily do a construction drawing. That's the difference between a noob like you and KJG. You don't know what you are doing and you don't want to use construction because you suck at it, he knows EXACTLY what he is doing and he doesn't use construction because he knows enough about perspective, gesture and anatomy that he can safely figure it out in his head.

[Anonymous No.1921948]

>>1921882
You are a class A idiot. You fucking dumb cunts and your misinformation. Krist this place is garbage.

[Anonymous No.1922014]

>>1921910

>>Milt Kahl? Glen Keane? Jin Kim? Iain McCaig? Francisco Herrera? Alessandro Barbucci?

Love these guys

[Anonymous No.1922031]

That is a perfectly valid approach. It's called an underdrawing and it's a very common technique. In charcoal you usually lighten your underdrawing with a kneaded eraser or draw it in sepia. Painters will paint over skietches. Animators and cartoonists will draw in pencil before applying the final outline with ink.

Anyone saying you should be jumping straight to the detailed piece is a fool and should be ignored. Your sketches speak for themselves, they're quite lovely.

[Anonymous No.1922159]

You people care about the most obtuse bullshit.
Or you're the easiest board to troll.

[Anonymous No.1922161]

>>1922159
these nggas... probably a mix of both

[Anonymous No.1922164]

>>1922159
No, it's true. If there's anything /ic/ loves it's to argue about retarded semantics.

[Anonymous No.1922191]

>>1922161

yeah it's both

[Anonymous No.1922233]

>>1921894
10/10

[Anonymous No.1922237]

>>1921908
I still do construction.
But one thing these chinks arent telling you is that if you practice with PEN and pencil, you will use less lines and thus be more precise.
Ink does not forgive.
Its the valuable lesson.

[Anonymous No.1922239]

>>1922159
thats why /a/ gets their kicks from us.
everything that isnt right is a trigger word for them like 'cuck'.

[Anonymous No.1922245]

>>1921882
> it is old, thus it is good
idiot

[Anonymous No.1922998]

>>1921771
This looks good
I don't see the problem

[Anonymous No.1923396]

>>1921771
This is what you are supposed to do.

Gesture->construction->image

[Anonymous No.1923514]

don´t draw without sketching first.

simple.

[Anonymous No.1925437]

>>1921737
Cheating? Art isn't a competition. There aren't rules.

[Anonymous No.1925448]

>>1925437
>Art isn't a competition

[Anonymous No.1925453]

>>1925448
Do go on

[Anonymous No.1925457]

>>1925453
You are competing to get a job, if you arent a hobbyist.

[Anonymous No.1925459]

>>1925457
>are

[Anonymous No.1925478]

>>1925457
I suppose some people like to turn art into work--and it is a very competitive market--but that is not a competition in the sense I'm talking about with cheating in the sense OP is talking about.

[Anonymous No.1925506]

>>1925478
Oh. I see what you mean

[Anonymous No.1926722]

>>1921737
What's so wrong with doing one sketch layer?
Seems redundant to draw more than one basic outline.

[Anonymous No.1928165]

>>1921754
That's literally one of the most basic ways to study something. drawing from observation lol

[Anonymous No.1929477]

Does copying a drawing line by line help progress? Or does it just decieve you into thinking you're making progress? I use to do this with my favorite comics and I always felt weird about it.

[Anonymous No.1929482]

>>1929477
It can help you see angles and proportion more accurately, but it isn't all you should be doing. You should also be thinking structurally and doing studies to improve your 3d thinking.

[Anonymous No.1929560]

>>1928165
I think he meant that its better to work on the lines that you have already to avoid burnout.

Like how many high level digital artist dont even "ink" their shit digitally. waste of time.

[Anonymous No.1929561]

>>1929560
what do you mean by "dont even ink their shit digitally"?

[Anonymous No.1929579]

>>1929561
some people call outlining their sketches like that.

[Anonymous No.1929582]

>>1929579
so they're saying people just leave their sketches as is? or just use them as lineart?

[Anonymous No.1932509]

>>1921737
Why would they teach it in art schools if it were cheating? Start with basics and work up.