/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.1703777]

I'm planning on making a small comicbook for a school assignment and I need some good reference material for it. What I'm asking for is some good suggestions of comic books so that I may have a good idea of composition in terms of story and the actual visuals.

TL;DR Gimme some good comic books to read/look at so that may have an idea how to Git Gud

[Anonymous No.1703781]

>>1703777
Framed Ink will teach you a lot about paneling. You won't gitgud overnight, but you'll at least have some awareness as to what's out there that's worth your consideration.

[Anonymous No.1703784]

>>1703781
Awesome, anymore suggestions would be great, this assignment is a yearlong assignment so I'll have quite some time

[Anonymous No.1703797]

Dark Knight Returns is a textbook on comic book storytelling.

The art isn't exactly pretty but it doesn't matter. Frank Miller is the Bob Dylan of comic book artists.

[Anonymous No.1703805]

Understanding Comics: The Invisible Art. Scott McCloud. All you'll ever need.

[Anonymous No.1703843]

>>1703797
that's a surprisingly accurate analogy actually

[Anonymous No.1703869]

Frank Santoro published a tract about the composition of a paga in TCJ
tcj.com/tag/layouts/

This is some of the best stuff you will read on the matter.

[Anonymous No.1703880]

>>1703797
OP here

Very interesting, I'll be sure to czech that one out

[Anonymous No.1703882]

you are probably not gonna like me for that but i suggest you take a look at manga. in akira you can very well see how much work the artist put into drawing it. western comics tend to simplify a lot of stuff(especially back in the days).

[Anonymous No.1703917]

>>1703777
for me transmetropolitan was like the easiest comic to read. for me a lot of the time the medium gets in the way of the story and action in comics, but not with this one but it still has a lot of style.

[Anonymous No.1704270]

>>1703869
>BUT MUH MANGA COMPOSITIONS!

Seriously, this is fucking amazing.

[Anonymous No.1704285]

>>1703805
'making comics' is also well worth the read

jh williams iii's work on batwoman was really inventive in terms of panel layout and visual, though i haven't read any of his other stuff. try 'batwoman elegy'.

[Anonymous No.1704298]

>>1704270
>BUT MUH MANGA COMPOSITIONS!
What?

[Anonymous No.1704304]

>>1704298

It seems like every time there is a comic thread there is one or two manga faggots who talk about how shit western comics are.

[Anonymous No.1704309]

>>1703869
is this supposed to be a joke?

[Anonymous No.1704315]

>>1704304
because they are in fact superior.
mangas are better drawn, mangakas put more work into them, they are colored in a better way, etc.

i am not saying that all comics are shit. i am a huge fan of mignola's work but as a matter of fact, especially the older comics are way behind the quality of mangas from the same time.

[Anonymous No.1704319]

>>1704315

Absolute 100% horseshit.

[Anonymous No.1704335]

>>1704315
>>1704319
don't even start this shit, especially when neither of you have read much from the other side.

>>1704315
what you said is just plain ridiculous. both sides put in their best effort. weekly issues have tough shedules, if that's what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.1704340]

>>1704315
we all know french comics are the best anyway

[Anonymous No.1704518]

>>1704309
Why makes you think that?

[Anonymous No.1704531]

>>1704315
>>1704319
>>1704335
>>1704340
>>1704518
Different anon here. I've seen lots of comics and I have to say, there are some (current and old) that have very very nice page layouts and designs and such, I tend to prefer more "creative" styles, for example "free-form panel" not sure if that's the term but anyways. From a number of eastern artists I've seen very creative flow and style to the pages, I'm not going to say is better or anything but I can get why some people would prefer it or think that the panels and such are something inherent to that style of sequential art, however, pic related I find very very appealing and it doesn't need stuff flying outside the panels or anything. I sense a very traditional approach to the pages design in Mignolas work yet he makes pages that flow very nicely.

TL;DR
There are artists that can make most impresive pages in whatever style, it really depends on the individual and what they are aiming for.

[Anonymous No.1704538]

>>1704531
OP here:

The comic I'm making is in the Western Style of comics, none of that manga bullshit.

[Anonymous No.1704579]

>>1704538
>none of tha manga bullshit
Who's talking about manga, I was talking about artists from whatever country doing good sequential art (I tend to dislike manga myself...for the most part) Anyways, some suggestions then; Rafael Albuquerque's art for American Vampire is really good, the inks are thick and the color is simple but very is pleasing and the pages as "a whole" look sick (in the good sense) Guy Davis' The Marquis is great with a more "cinematic" approach to story telling (with lots of wide panels and the like) is black and white but it really suits the style, Mignola already mentioned but I'll suggest particularly the Hellboy in Hell volumes, I dunno I just like it. I'm actually about to read Red Hood and the Outlaws, got very negative criticism for the characters but is Kenneth Rocafort, lovely inking.

pic unrelated

[Anonymous No.1705350]

I have a personal love for hellboy comics and their blocky, minimal detail sorta style where detail is only present when necessary

[Anonymous No.1705364]

>>1704531

wow do you have more of those black and white pages by mignola ??

[GreyDeath No.1705366]

>>1704579
>Rocafort's inking?

Thought his stuff was just pencils that were then colored by his normal colorist Sunny Gho? IIRC, Gho didn't color RHatO.

[Anonymous No.1705376]

>manga is superior
>manga is bullshit
>western comics are lazy
>glorious french master race
Isn't "manga" just a japanese word meaning "comics", or something to that effect? What's the point of grouping them by region? They're all influencing each other, anyway.

[Anonymous No.1705377]

>>1704538
Please die alrady.

[Anonymous No.1705383]

>>1705364
pic related. From Wolfs of Saint August
>>1705366
>just pencils
No idea, I thought that was "inking" maybe I should have said 'lineart' or something along those lines. I like his work anyways
>>1705376
>isn't manga just a japanese word for comic
Yes, exactly! In fact I often read that they rarely use the term 'manga' and simply call their own comics ...well, comic (not a huge mango-animu fan here, so I might be wrong) I also read that the term "Manhua" from chinese origin (same chinese letters for manga in japan by the way) was already in use for Hong Kong news paper comic strips and that it means "Sketch" or "Doodles" o something like that.

[Anonymous No.1705384]

>>1703777

http://www.laurbits.com/tips/5-helpful-links-for-creating-comic-panels

[Anonymous No.1705385]

>>1705383
They use the word manga, and also use manga to refer to Western comics.
I still am not used to that... trying my best to draw decent sketches and everytime they compliment me on my "manga", I think of /ic/ and cringe.

[Anonymous No.1705397]

>>1705385
>compliment me on my 'manga'
This is sadly happened to me, where I come from animu is very popular and pretty much any person who wants to draw sequential art and similar stuff is assumed to want to draw sequential art because of animu and such shit... I hated it (still kind of do) but then in college I learned that people like Gendy Tatakovsky (sorry if misspelled) liked some japanese animation director, and I love Dexter and the Star Wars: Clone Wars shorts, or that Frank Miller was influenced by Lone Wolf and Cub (a japanese comic) but also that he was influenced by Moebius and Moebius influenced Miyazaki, Hyung Tae Kim (a korean artist) had influence from japanese comics but also from marvel comics and the guy that created Yu-Gi-Oh! was a huge Hellboy and Spawn fan. These people are all very professional and very successful and what not, and whether they are from the east or the west doesn't matter since everyone has influence from everyone.

My point being. Just be professional and 'git gud' for lack of a better term, if you stumble across an artist that you like just get the best you can from him/her and incorporate it into your artwork.

TL:DR
If you want to get better at composition for sequential story telling just read more comics, if you preffer certain style or artist (whether it is Mignola or Min-woo Hyun) just stick to it and incorporate what you like from it into your work, but please don't go for something like "OEL manga" because thats just sad.

pic related more Mignola.

[Anonymous No.1705428]

>>1703882
Is that the spooky scary guy?

[Anonymous No.1705433]

>>1704538
OP i feel for you.
I don't even know what the fuck happened to this thread, except for cock munching weaboos

[GreyDeath No.1705442]

The first question you can answer for us, OP, is...

...Can you Draw?

[Anonymous No.1705640]

>>1705442
Yeah, that's not the concern. It's the actual basic composition of the comics where I get all retarded. Organization is my prob. not drawing.

[what the fuck am I doing !ztENIsXjtM No.1705665]

>>1705640
Regardless of the what kind of comic you have in mind, there are plenty of great examples you can learn from, even in manga. Get over it.

Otomo Katsuhiro (Akira) is a great example, mentioned earlier. Very traditional page layouts, but he knows how and when to break the rules making for a much greater impact. Japanese.

Juanjo Guarnido (Blacksad) is another amazing artist in terms of pacing and composition/layout. Clarity is the first word that comes to mind. I never had any issue wondering what exactly was happening. Layouts are traditional as well. If I were to suggest a good place to start for layouts, it would be here. French.

Sean Murphy (Punk Rock Jesus) has really blown up in popularity lately and he tends to experiment with his page layouts. His most recent work is with Scott Snyder on The Wake. His style is pretty distinct and insists on working traditionally only. Sometimes things get muddied or a little too chaotic, but overall if you want to see something less traditional and a little more indie, go here. American.

Cameron Stewart (Sin Titulo) works completely digitally when doing comics with few exceptions, if any. Sin Titulo is a web comic that utilized 4x4 page layouts and manages to work rather well. He's currently doing work for DC like Batman form time to time. He started a personal series called Niro and posted the first 13 pages or so online. Not super traditional, but not super indie either. The fact that he works digitally may be more useful to you. I recall seeing a post of all the pages set up in Manga Studio which can help dissect layouts from page to page. American.

Declan Shalvey posts his thumbnail layouts every now and then. Just grabbed this one from his Tumblr. He's done a lot of random work for DC and Marvel as far as I know. Other than that, I haven't actually read anything he's done. I just keep up with his some of his work. If you didn't know, start with thumbnails for layouts. Pic related. Irish/American.

[Anonymous No.1705677]

>>1705433
It started with this post >>1703882 and it went shit from there on.
Plus the overall page has a weak composition.

[Anonymous No.1707450]

>>1705665
The comic is handrawn with traditional media, not tablet or digital.

[Anonymous No.1707598]

>>1704315
>Better drawn
>Put more work into it
Is that why they don't color it? Look at this picture, look at the detail, the shading, the lighting, the mood. Look at how fucking detailed every character is. Every illustrator whethere you're a mangaka or a comic artist, you get lazy sometime. You're drawning non-stop. But look at this and tell me this isn't good detail. The mood itself speaks to you. LOOK AT HOW BIG THANOS IS!

[Anonymous No.1707628]

>>1707598
>mood
i think manga has a much greater variety of moods and layouts.
it has greater variety in general. feel free to prove me wrong though, i don't know much about comics.

[Anonymous No.1707630]

[Anonymous No.1707632]

[Anonymous No.1707634]

though there are undoubtedly great comics out there, especially in europe
at least right now, i enjoy manga so much more.

[Anonymous No.1707636]

[Anonymous No.1707645]

[Anonymous No.1707647]

[Anonymous No.1707649]

[Anonymous No.1707650]

[Anonymous No.1707654]

and look at this. this is naruturd.
even kishimoto knows how to use angles and stuff at times

[Anonymous No.1707658]

[Anonymous No.1707660]

[Anonymous No.1707661]

[Anonymous No.1707662]

[Anonymous No.1707665]

[Anonymous No.1707668]

[Anonymous No.1707669]

shoujo/josei

[Anonymous No.1707670]

and i'll stop with this.
hopefully this gave you some insight into layout.
maybe someone else can dump some comic examples too.

[Anonymous No.1707674]

I love this mangakas layouts.

[Anonymous No.1707851]

>>1707628
>>1707634
>>1707654
OP already said he dosn't want that bullshit.
You are only showing how much authistic you are.

[Anonymous No.1707862]

>>1707851
what is bullshit about these drawings?

[Anonymous No.1707866]

>>1707851
well, OP wanted some layout stuff so i gave it to him.
i'd say it's more useful than stuff like >>1703869, which is just insanely outdated in my opinion.

or do comics really always go for an evenly distributed paneling? what's the point in that?

>authistic

[Anonymous No.1707882]

>nobody posting yusuke murata's work

[Anonymous No.1707926]

>>1703777
Unless your an experienced artist and can draw well out of your imagination I wouldn't suggest making a comic book for a school assignment. You will be ripping your hair out before you're halfway through. Especially if you don't like comics enough to have your own reference material.

[Anonymous No.1708053]

>>1707866
>Not reading Santro's articles and knowing they are about the composition of the overall page and not just the distribution of the panels.
So you are not autist, just a moron.

[Anonymous No.1708152]

>>1708053
>pic
that looks awful

[Anonymous No.1708157]

>>1707669
All these no-mark mangas and no One Punch Man? For shame.

OP, take a look at We3 (art by Frank Quitely). The layouts and compositions will blow your mind.

[Anonymous No.1708162]

Daytripper is a personal favorite of mine. Beautiful storytelling and beautiful story.

[Anonymous No.1708163]

>>1707670
sauce?
pic related juder.

[Anonymous No.1708165]

>>1708163
this is korean btw, is read the same orientation as american.

[what the fuck am I doing !ztENIsXjtM No.1708205]

>>1707450
What does that have to do with anything I said? None of my examples work digitally, with the exception of Stewart.

Even so, digital or traditional has absolutely nothing to do with the layouts and compositions or how to Git Gud.

>>1708162
Haven't read or seen Daytripper but I've heard good things about it.

[Anonymous No.1708342]

>>1708053
>hurr paneling is just about panels
no, i did look into them, and they do seem to be about distributing the elements according to some method. i just generalized it into "distributing things evenly", because that's what it looks like.

and yes, it still sounds retarded and outdated to me. i mean just look at your image, the artist may as well just've done it randomly.

without looking at the text, i don't even have closest idea about what the page is really about. the majority of the characters take up the same size on the page and there is not a single panel that draws my attention to the page.
that's some terrible storytelling and comicking.

compare it to>>1708162 where the page is telling a story. your isn't doing that at all.

[Anonymous No.1708365]

>>1708163
http://mangafox.me/manga/takemitsu_zamurai/

Very powerful stuff

[Anonymous No.1708377]

>>1708365
was it really necessary to post your crappy art? you may as well just use a trip

[Anonymous No.1708452]

>>1708377
my thoughts exactly.

[Anonymous No.1708454]

>>1708452
Thirded

[Anonymous No.1708463]

>>1708365
Does that style have a name? I think I've seen more artists drawing like that (both, western and eastern, reminds me a bit of Guy Davis)

pic related to >>1708163

[Anonymous No.1708471]

>>1708463
yeah, the shity style. it's subtle

[Anonymous No.1708478]

>>1708471
>shity style
Is not shitty, is just very abstract. Anyways, when I said it reminded me a bit of Guy Davis I was thinking about the faces, the abstraction in general I guess.

[Anonymous No.1708498]

>>1708478
but anon it is shitty.

>>1708365 has poor line quality, uninteresting subject matter and uninteresting designs. not to mention his work always looks the fucking same. i've seen his work for months and there has been marginal evolution. and they're always little doodles. maybe spend more than one minute on shit you're constantly posting

not to mention the right leg looks broken in >>1708365

if his work looked more like guy davis's i'd be more likely to like his work or agree with you but this anon, as you have so put it, abstracts. a lot. to the point where the subject matter oftentimes becomes unreadable

alright i think my long overdue vent is done

[Anonymous No.1708506]

>>1708498
>more like guy davis
I just said it reminded me a bit of it. Didn't say it was good or anything.

[Anonymous No.1708517]

>>1708498
In b4 Bagboss' incredibly butthurt response. Dude can't handle criticism at all.

[Anonymous No.1708523]

>>1708517
all my points are valid. im curious to see what he has to say

[Anonymous No.1708531]

>>1708523
I'm the anon that posted those 'Cavalier of the Abyss' pages (the ones with the talking raven) I'm also the one that posted the Guy Davis image and also those Hellboy pages (you welcome) I had never read takatsuwhatever Zamuraii and the style looked okay to me. This is just to clarify, I have no idea who is posting that thing with the broken legs and shitty lineart.

Your are OP right?

[Anonymous No.1708534]

>>1708531
nah i'm just a lurker who occasionally posts in drawthreads

[Anonymous No.1708544]

>>1708531
And i'm the one who stated it was shit. anon, we're not even hatin'. how can someone look at that and say "it's good" or something like that, looks like he didn't even put any effort in it, lines are unfinished unpolished with no purpose, they're just there. it's just shit, you can't even describe it, it's a random doodle

[Anonymous No.1708548]

>>1703777

[Anonymous No.1708550]

>>1708548
It's a bit wordy though.

[Anonymous No.1708561]

>>1708544
you mean anon's drawing right? Yeah that's pretty shitty. Have some more Davis

[Anonymous No.1708595]

>>1707647
what's this from?

[Anonymous No.1708692]

>>1708342
>Confusing paneling, layout and composition with each other.

[Anonymous No.1708730]

I'll post a couple different styles.

[Anonymous No.1708732]

>>1708730

[Anonymous No.1708733]

>>1708732

[Anonymous No.1708734]

>>1708733

[Anonymous No.1708735]

>>1708734
I think the art for the new Ghost Rider is pretty bomb.

[Anonymous No.1708757]

>>1708692
where did i do that?
it's not like it's that important to distinguish between paneling and layout in the first place (in my opinion), you're grasping at straws.

and
those articles still look terrible. what're you gonna do about it, fag?
those diagramms are neither useful nor important.
if you think it has some merit, feel free to explain it.

[Anonymous No.1708763]

>>1708735

I love this artwork, but the new character design makes me want to kill someone.

[Anonymous No.1708849]

>>1708757
Old Masters used geometrical composition.

[Anonymous No.1709026]

>>1708595
bump

[Anonymous No.1709065]

>>1708365
i really like the feeling of this manga.

[Anonymous No.1709066]

>>1709026
Shuto Hell is the name of it.

[Anonymous No.1709081]

>>1708498
>poor line quality
You obviously do not know what that means, every line is deliberate and nothing superfluous.
(pic related is poor line quality)
> uninteresting subject matter and uninteresting designs
How and why, no less that 200 words kiddo.
>not to mention his work always looks the fucking same
Valid.
>not to mention the right leg looks broken in
huh


>>1708544
>lines are unfinished unpolished with no purpose, they're just there.
Lines are unfinished? Well if lines are connected then they're not really lines well are they now? Just pokin' at the rational of your argument.

[Anonymous No.1709117]

>>1708849
but don't you see the difference? it makes a little more sense to use it for one single painting, but using it to arrange everything across a comic page?
what's the point of putting an element on "sweet spots" in relation to the entire page, when you're not going to notice it anyway because you are usually looking at one panel at a time only?

hell, you're SUPPOSED to look at one panel at a time and immerse youself into the flow.
so isn't it much more sensible to think from panel to panel? like thinking in terms of how the size changes and what shots to use. and composing the panels mostly by themselves?
see
>>1708548
>>1708162
>>1707660
>>1707628
>>1708561
or any other example itt

those diagrams just look restrictive, and nothing else. at least to me.

[Anonymous No.1709201]

>>1708478
>"I do not know what abstract means."

[Anonymous No.1709313]

Odd recommendation, but if you want to see some astonishingly creative layouts and use of panelling in a comic, check out Todd McFarlane's Infinity Inc.

It was some of his earliest work and he's quick to admit in interviews that he still thinks of himself as a mediocre artist to this day, but in the case of Infinity Inc. especially the layouts were to distract from the shortcomings of his artwork, however I feel he really threw the baby out with the bathwater ditching this style once he got a little better at drawing.

[Anonymous No.1709360]

>>1709066
thanks

[Anonymous No.1709406]

>>1709117
>but don't you see the difference? it makes a little more sense to use it for one single painting, but using it to arrange everything across a comic page?
You are looking at the whole page with the brain