/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.1477076]

What are /ic/'s thoughts on art school/college?

[Anonymous No.1477087]

What a vague question.

[Anonymous No.1477091]

loved it, it's done well by me, but if you don't work your ass off and make and keep as many connections as you possibly can, you're screwed. It's a gamble.

[Anonymous No.1477093]

>>1477087
Okay, I'll start. I think it's fucking expensive and even if I get accepted, I probably have no way of affording it all with both SCHOLARSHIPS and LOANS.

Is it worth it /ic/? I'm an American so I have to pay out the ass for school.

[Anonymous No.1477095]

Art school is no replacement for hard work
It can teach you plenty about technique and medium

Grad school is objectively more useful than an undergrad, primarily for networking purposes

[Anonymous No.1477099]

>>1477091
>>1477095

Did you guys have to take out a bunch of loans or was school pretty inexpensive for you? I'm having trouble believing that one can afford 60-100k in debt with an art career.

[Anonymous No.1477104]

I'm going to a state school with an art program. At least half as much money as an actual art school, and a lot of hidden gems as far as teachers go.

I'm sure as shit still worried about loans, though. I'm graduating a year early, so that saves me some money, but I also struggle with the idea of if I should go to graduate school or just hope I can sell the stuff I make or find a job with a jeweler with just a BA.

[Anonymous No.1477107]

>>1477099
go to a cheaper school for undergrad then take out loans for grad school. i went to a small liberal arts college in-state for free with scholarships.

[Anonymous No.1477118]

>>1477099
Yeah, i took out a lot of loans, but no more than i would have going into any other specialty. I personally think that going to a cheaper school that doesn't have a high profile in the art world is a bad idea. A career as an artist depends almost as much on your connections (meeting curators, critics, gallerists, etc.) as it does on your skill. It's a sad truth. But it's the truth. High profile schools atract high profile visitors. Which includes visiting artists. I went to SAIC, which is expensive as fuck, but holy shit the artists they had come through there.....it's worth it. But only if you're *really* serious about it. If you're on the fence or wishy-washy, don't waste your money.

[Anonymous No.1477129]

>>1477104
you sound like me


Art unis certainly helps alot, but more important is how much you try to learn and how serious you are. I know so many people who goes to art unis with terrible art works just because they think they'll learn everything during class time so they never practice outside of class.

One thing you should watch out for is how dedicate the school actually is to their students OP. The majority of art schools are private institutions so they can be pretty careless toward their students (im looking at you AAU)

[Anonymous No.1477211]

It's great as long as:

1. You can afford it without hardship
2. You do due diligence and select the appropriate school
2. You're truly driven and a hard worker
4. You already have some skills and creativity which indicate a base on which you can build
5. You go above and beyond while at school, not merely attending class and doing homework, but entering contests, going to extra-cirricular art activities, becoming friends with teachers who can mentor you and provide connections, etc..
6. You realize that it's a difficult career, and a diploma won't get you work - focussed effort with strong results coupled with energetically marketing yourself gets you work.

If you want a guaranteed steady income, and a job you can simply plug into during the day and work without it taking over every aspect of your life, then art as a career is probably not for you. Otherwise, jump in.

If you can get a bfa from your school, all the better. If you want to teach, plan on getting an MFA, especially if you want to teach adults.

[Anonymous No.1477291]

>>1477076
i have to say i feel bad for americans and whoever else has to pay out the nose for education

[Anonymous No.1477299]

>>1477211

everything you said can be applied to literally any type of higher education system you go through. you won't succeed at anything unless you do what you have listed.

[Anonymous No.1477312]

I go to an expensive as fuck private art school in so cal. I gots me scholarship and grants to cover most of the cost though. Going here is the best thing I've ever done for my art... I have a lot of homework though, so peace out.

[Anonymous No.1477320]

>>1477076
Eh in America its a mixed bag at best from what I've found and heard. The high quality ones are few and far between with most teaching you few skills to use as a marketable trade--ie, as a means of paying off that massive pile of debt.
Honestly twenty years ago it would probably have been a good opportunity to go to one, even one's that weren't that great, as long as it gave you the time to do your own work--I know an artist who went on to work at Disney animation who told me his degree in art that he got less than thirty years ago was roughly five-thousand dollars--WTF?! But twenty years later, with tuition rates risen 700% and with EVERYTHING you need to know to be an artist or illustrator either being online or in books--everything, and in every aspect of art from abstraction to manga to traditional fine art--we're reaching a point of no return where most people, especially ones from lower income wage groups, simply have no way to go to school for these courses.

And even if you have the money very, very few college art courses actually teach you how to market or apply your skills (if you've actually learned any) to a successful job outside of school, which is why art/illustration courses are -consistently- rated among the most useless degrees in america year after year.

[Anonymous No.1477322]

>>1477320
....Of course, as a self-taughter myself, it ain't fun on this end either as you'll need to be perpetually driven, I mean kicking your own ass every day, to better yourself--basically working at your craft every spare moment you can and always kicking yourself to get out of your comfort zones. Other downsides include losing friends, losing much of your social life, and not having the directing guidance that art teachers (if they're any good) can give you and so it takes waaay longer to find your way through the wilderness of self-improvement.

Other practical setbacks to self-teaching that nobody tells you about is that other peoples' mentalities towards you aren't the same as if you were going to college:

- if you have an SO and you guys get into serious relationship problems you can't just say, 'well I know we're having problems but I need to go work on the computer,' whereas if you were going to school it would go without saying that you simply can't skip your classes because you guys are having problems.

-similarly, your friends aren't going to accept easily that you can't hang out as much because you have to do studies and better your craft, whereas if you were going to college they would naturally never demand you skip class for them.

[Anonymous No.1477324]

>>1477076
this

[Ache !Qh0Wo.kGPY No.1477326]

What careers can I realistically do if I go to art college?
I'm currently in the AP studio art class at my high school, with half my AP portfolio done
I plan on going to the art institute of Portland
But I have no clue what the fuck to major in

[Anonymous No.1477328]

>>1477326
AP Studio art classes are a joke.

[Ache !Qh0Wo.kGPY No.1477329]

>>1477328
I'm sorry?
It's the highest level class provided so I can't settle for anything better

[Anonymous No.1477333]

>>1477328
How so?

[Anonymous No.1477334]

>>1477326
Do NOT go to ANY Art Institute. It is a ripoff for profit college and they provide a shitty education. Be weary of any "art" school that doesn't have a portfolio requirement for you to get in.

As for careers in art and design, there are many: fine artist, illustrator (such a wide term meaning anything from editorial, to surface design, children's books, animated movies, etc.), product design, entertainment/concept art, advertising, photography, automotive design, environmental design, graphic design, etc. etc. Find what you enjoy most, concentrate in it heavily, build a portfolio, then apply to a good, reputable school with a good program in it.

[Anonymous No.1477335]

>>1477299
>everything you said can be applied to literally any type of higher education system you go through.
>you won't succeed at anything unless you do what you have listed.

No, with some shit you can coast through school and get a decent job. Art is a constant struggle, and if you're freelance, that's an entire extra layer of struggle that most people don't have to deal with. You can work a lot of jobs where you check out at the end of the day and leave the job at the office. Not so with art. FURTHER, art graduates have the lowest job placement rates out school. That's the point of the image I posted. Those who can actually find jobs in art are a tiny percentage. Most working artists actually have at least part time jobs doing something else. That's the ugly truth.

We all like the pep-talk stuff, but the reality check stuff is just as important. Art's not a good common sense option. It's a lot of money with statistically abysmal chances at steady, lucrative employment. It's for the few.

[Ache !Qh0Wo.kGPY No.1477338]

>>1477334
Thank you!
I'll look into portfolio prerequisite colleges
Can commissions/ freelance work make good enough money to get buy while in college?

[Anonymous No.1477341]

>>1477335
You're saying "art" like this all encompassing single job. Of course many never find a job. Many aren't looking for one, I.e. freelancers. Most freelancers will keep their work off the books as much as they can for as long as they can to avoid paying taxes.

I have many friends that have graduated school and are going perfectly well. Some are working at Disney or Pixar or laika, those are the ones with solid paychecks, others are doing their own thing. They are making a decent living but to the IRS, they are "out of work".

Many industrial designers fall under the category of "artist" as well, they sure find work. I think your idea of the out-of-work artist is that of the fine artist, perhaps the roughest road to take. I know some that picked up teaching to make ends meet and others are doing really well. It's a giant gamble to go that route but if it pays off, it can be the biggest payoff ever.

[Anonymous No.1477343]

>>1477338
Realistically, no. You won't have time for that shit. I sleep 2-4 hours a night (procrastinating right now) and my only loans I take out are for living expenses. It will suck to owe money, but at least my tuition is covered through scholarships and grants and shit.

[Anonymous No.1477347]

>>1477346
has stopped*

[Anonymous No.1477346]

>>1477341
i think he is just saying statistically people with fine arts degrees are the ones most likely to not find work in that field, thus it's 'useless' in fact one of the big universities here have stop offering it and you have to get either a degress in arts history or some weird industrial design degree.

[Anonymous No.1477349]

>>1477346
But again, if you're a fine artist, you're not looking for a job, you are your job. There really is no "unemployed" as a fine artist- just slow business.

[Anonymous No.1477359]

>>1477349
And to add: the only other fine arts degree job I can think of is illustration, and to be brutally honest, your average state university doesn't stand a chance against the designated private art school illustrators. Pick up any illustration magazine student annual and you will see the same names come up repeatedly: Ringling, Savannah, Ringling, RISD, Art Center, etc.

The only regular universities I can think of with good art programs are Yale and UCLA and their programs are fine art as fuck and super exclusive.

So these regular universities dropping their fine arts degree program makes perfect sense to me.

[Anonymous No.1477360]

>>1477359
See, I said Ringling twice, comes up that much.

[Anonymous No.1477361]

>>1477349
Supporting oneself w/ fine art without government assistance or a trust fund makes it a job. So, I think that's the real question. Most of the art majors with jobs are employed at jobs unrelated to their field of study.

[Anonymous No.1477362]

>>1477361
That's again giving the all encompassing idea of "art majors". Many go to shitty schools with shitty programs and make shitty art. Many are fine artists that can't sell a painting for shit, the gallery route is tough. (Hence why I'm not going that route).

[Anonymous No.1478477]

>>1477324
fuck man...

[Anonymous No.1478478]

What about MCA?
Is that a good school?

[Anonymous No.1480209]

The entertainment industry is even worse for education options. Overpriced. Think, most of what students spend money on is software training... That software will be obsolete in 5/10 years (with or without a career). So you have to keep learning new software, It's like a black hole.

At least traditional art schools give you a tangible skill you can develop and enjoy for your life (With or without a career). Assuming you enjoy art for yourself, and not only a career title.

[Anonymous No.1480212]

>>1477324
there was 'that guy' in my class, he quit after a while, only wanted to draw comics, hated anything non-figurative, argued with everything the teachers taught, resented women big time, couldn't talk to the younger girls beyond a mumble.

i'm glad the whole comic's so hard to get in english so it doesn't put people off. misanthropic bastard.

[Anonymous No.1480228]

My thoughts on art-school/college are that you probably wont need it.
I just graduated from yeah, what would americans call that ? Dunno. Regular school - 13th grade. Degree is called 'Abitur' here in Germany.
I've been gathering information on what my options are now.
The only real art school here is this SAE institute, which honestly looks pretty shitty.
Been visiting it a few times and yeah - meh. Many ppl seem to agree you do not really get taught a lot. the only reason you would want to apply for it are the connectinos, which really seem to having a big role in this buisness.

Speaking of education in said schools, I do not really think it is worth much. I have been doing my degree this year in a school that has a art-education within. Basicly a regular/art school = more lessons - thats pretty much it. I did not really learn anything usefull the past years, but as stated it was not really a professional art school, so I wouldnt rely on my opinion.

I have now been thinking of building up a Portfolio because I have been painting digitally for a good year now and trying to apply for some small ass browser game company or some other shit to "get into buisness". Its another alternative to build up contacts... Maybe someone else has some tips for me. Maybe someone that is living in southern germany aswell?

Anyway, selfstudy is just as effective if you just want to do art. But be prepared to work dem asses off. For building up contacts you gotta apply somewhere though :/

[Anonymous No.1480238]

anyone know about SCAD (Savannah College of Art) i applied and got accepted. It seems pretty nice and well connected so i think i can get away with some nice hook-ups after this shitstorm of an education

[Anonymous No.1480267]

>>1480238
i visited there when i was trying to figure out where to go, it seemed nice. what major were you thinking of? im pretty sure their fashion design is really highly ranked

[Anonymous No.1480274]

>half of these threads say art school is invaluable
>because of the guiding hand and having people around all the time to help you out makes you grow much faster

>half of these threads say it's a waste of money
>because it all ends up being what you put into it anyway

make up your mind /ic/

[Anonymous No.1480287]

>>1480274
Have you tried actually putting in the effort yourself and seen what happens? Ahahaha if you tried you'd see that you don't neccessarily need art school

If you are a lazy sloth ass nigger then you'll want to go to art school since they'll force you to draw 9-5 now get back to work

[Anonymous No.1480290]

>>1480287
>implying
these threads convince me more and more that the people on this board don't know what they're talking about. and/or, that it depends entirely on the person.

i draw in my free time; my field is chemistry but i do like art. if i can someday afford art school and it ends up being worth my time then i intend to take classes every so often. so i read these threads.

[Anonymous No.1480293]

I graduated art school this year and I personally thought it was worth it, however, to get the full worth of it you really need to work your ass off. I really regret that I didn't take the first year very seriously and as a result I have a really shaky grasp on the basics such as color theory.
But constantly having several people around you giving you valid critique and constantly having to work on something really does make you improve.

[Anonymous No.1480301]

>>1480267
I'm thinking either printmaking, painting illustration or really anything else that catches my attention

[Anonymous No.1480369]

Here is how you can get the equivalent of a BA in Fine Arts or Illustration for dirt cheap:
Step 1:
Go to the library and take out several books on art history from the stone ages to the modern Era. Read them cover to cover. You are now caught up on the development and evolution of art in human history.
Step 2:
Go to the library again and take out some books on drawing and painting. Read them cover to cover. Watch youtube videos on improving your figure drawing skills. Read about color theory, composition, form, space, shape, contrast, and optical illusions. Do not merely read, but study, and take notes. If you find a book that you find very resourceful, try to find it used on ebay or buy it on amazon.
Step 3: Go out and draw from life. Take figure drawing classes (which are really the only valuable classes in art school but if you take them in art school you are paying about 10 billion times what just a regular figure drawing class might cost on craig's list. Sometimes they are even free). Keep an eye out on events in your town for opportunities to draw models from life.
Step 4:
Admit that you suck. Yes. You do. You are fucking garbage. That's the only way you can learn to do better. Take pride in improving, but acknowledge that you are not a fucking genius. You're not brilliant. You're not awesome. Your friends, family, or girlfriend/boyfriend might say you are, but you're not. Take criticism seriously, even though it hurts. As long as you acknowledge that you are garbage in the first place, you can learn to improve more easily.

Continue this process for 2 to 4 years with every waking minute of free time. Get a part time job. Don't go to art college. If you are still garbage after 5 years, save up all the money you made working as a waitress or a cleaning toilets and go to trade school. Learn how to be an electrician or a plumber or a mechanic. These are jobs that pay and are always in demand everywhere in the world, even after the zombie apocalypse.

[Anonymous No.1480373]

I think I'm gonna go to an atelier. It's cheaper than a university and honestly I think I'll get more out of it from a technical standpoint.

[Anonymous No.1480377]

>>1480369
I need to expound on step 3
When you go out and draw from life, take your drawings and show them to people on the internet on sites like 4chan/ic/, deviantart, etc. etc. Listen to the criticism there. Especially from artists you admire.

Do not buy into the religion of art school. You don't fucking need it. It's a fucking scam. 5 years after you graduate and you're still paying off student loans with your wages from mopping floors in a movie theater bathroom it will eventually dawn on you that you've been a fool.

Or just go ahead and go to art school. Do all your homework. Make connections. Fall into a job as an illustrator making the big bucks. It's as easy as that!

[Anonymous No.1480419]

>>1477076
I don't like to shamelessly plug myself, but I feel like this might actually be relevant here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhIxzE3NRV0

[Anonymous No.1480447]

>>1480419
ah i woudln't expect you to still be around /ic/ with your actual appealing work and everything, plug away good buddy.

[Anonymous No.1480509]

>>1480419
You're still around and making these? Awesome!

[Anonymous No.1480523]

>>1480419
Sheeeeeet, your stuff is always welcome here. Love your series, by the way, I listen to your soothing voice when I doodle at the computer.

[Anonymous No.1480551]

>>1480447
>>1480509
>>1480523
am i too new to know who this dude is? ;_;

[Anonymous No.1480590]

>>1480419

brooooo I can't believe your still here

[Anonymous No.1480701]

>>1480590
I've been here almost a decade, so there's no sense leaving now.

My advice on art school is both positive and negative and depends largely on what kind of person you think you are.
Some of the best artists I've known could have skipped college altogether, but the instructor feedback and structure were helpful to give them direction.
What you want out of it is also a huge deal. What job do you want, what does it ask of you, and is college really the way to get there.
Also, is art really something you want to do for a living a all?

[Anonymous No.1480718]

>>1480419
Damn, I am glad you made those.
I just watched that and the video afterwards. I felt the same way when I applied to Film at York last year. Got wait-listed and the day I was going to accept my second offer, I got the letter that I was in. So much worry about being the bottom of the barrel. Come the end of the year, and my stuff ended up being one of the better ones.

</blog>
Anyways, my point is... School's got its perks, but it really is, in the end, just an institution, not a path. I've learned more out of school (for film, art, and photography) than I have inside.

[Anonymous No.1480792]

>>1480419
Fucking great, will watch them all now!

[Anonymous No.1480801]

>>1477324
that comic is so bad.

[Anonymous No.1480814]

>>1477076
is that a cyborg asian girl balancing a joint on it's upper lip or what. what's going on here.

[Anonymous No.1480854]

>>1480419
Wow.
Awesome.

[Anonymous No.1480927]

>>1480701
My favorite moments in the story are the dramatic suicide attempt, and the moment of friendliness with Kenneth. I highly suggest you keep coming from a place of truth like that, because then your stories aren't just humorous and informative, but they have other human experiences as well.

tl;dr keep including your personal moments, makes your stories really good

[Anonymous No.1480963]

>>1480927
Thanks, that's good to hear. I worry those are the parts people get bored with.

[Anonymous No.1481317]

>>1480290
If you are thinking of taking classes for your own enjoyment like I do (going to school with intention to major in Chemistry as well), you could always do a class with Vilppu.

His fundamentals class is well worth it. Even pros take that class.

[Anonymous No.1481378]

>>1481317
yes, i have done that. i downloaded it and used the book.

i found it useful and interesting but i hated having to watch certain parts over and over because he wouldn't explain a certain thing.

[Anonymous No.1481787]

>>1481378
I did the actual class and it is much better than just downloading DVDs and manuals. There are regular online webcam chat meetings in which you can ask questions and there is video feedback from assignments.

[Anonymous No.1481789]

>>1481787
Of course it is expensive, and cost more than my first rifle at 5-600 if I remember for first time. It's a little less than half that if you take it again, which most do.

[Anonymous No.1481958]

>>1477359
>The only regular universities I can think of with good art programs are Yale and UCLA and their programs are fine art as fuck and super exclusive.

hunter, bard

[Anonymous No.1481970]

>>1477359
There are actually a lot of regular universities with good art programs. The reason you don't hear about them is because its not their main promoting point as most people don't go for art. But I always encourage people to tour their state art programs because often times they have just what they need.