/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Name examples of people who "draw" and people who "have never truly drawn"

I need images to know what the fuck you're on about

Its all about them forms baby I am beg rn but gimme a year and I'll be joining them
Drawing illuminaty club for cool drawers no howies allowed lets fucking gooooo

>>7081646
>hyperbolic statement
>hyperbolic statement 2
>hyperbolic statement 3
god, i'm so smart

>>7081652
It's the feeling of fully and effortlessly feeling (not just understanding) that the object is a three dimensional form.

Some people think that they understand what that means, but their concept of form is like a bas-relief. They can feel the movement over the form, but not the movement behind the form and around the form. I mean a total and felt sense of full three dimensionality, as if you have a 3D modeling program running inside of your brain. You're not longer measuring or using tricks of the trade to get it right, you just know where it is like you know where your hand is right now. It's felt, not understood.

>>7081652
op means drawing from imagination whereas mostly only copy or reference and just mix and mash different images together to "draw" something which the process can be more described as photobashing.

i.e.
if all you're doing is simply copying images, are you really drawing or just mimicking the act of drawing?

if not, this is just another bait thread

>>7081678
I was saying the same thing here >>7081611
I took a sketchbook everywhere I go and I drew people whenever I could. in malls, at bus stops, in coffee places, you name it.
we had nude and portrait drawing and painting at the academy. this is how you learn to understand and visualize bodies. how you train your analytical sight. this is happening even before you make the first line on the paper. you have to learn how and where you start out with your drawing on your paper or canvas, know the size and the composition that you are going to go for and you need to build an understanding for anatomy, much like *seeing* bodies like in OP pic in your mind.

all these methods like drawabox, tracing, grid etc are purely external tools that are useless without your internalized, developed skills.

The only person who truly draws is me. All others are just posers whose intentions I am not able to verify and thus distrust.
And intention is all that matters.

>>7081646
im the only one that can draw. you are all figments of my imagination i created for inspiration. i shouldnt have made this thread. ruined an AI post.

This is why drawing is so cool and why there is no reason to be discouraged by things like AI. It's not about the finished product, it's about developing an ability in your mind that is indistinguishable from magic. It's basically a sixth sense.

I'm the only one in the world that can draw. No, really, put that pencil down right now or I'm coming for you

>>7081678
Animators are good at that. Animating complex movement is like powerleveling your 3d sense. Proprioception, but for the character you are drawing.

>>7081646
> OPs mother
> Those who know, know

>>7081740
they fucking trace you retard. its not drawing.

It's okay to have failed at life.
Most people have failed to matter.
You're in good company.

>>7081747
What did he trace when he animated this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBfXaqXseP4

>>7081753
*meant to timestamp akira
https://youtu.be/gBfXaqXseP4?t=69

this is why painters will be filtered first

>>7081761
Arguably true painting is even more three dimensional than drawing in the sense that every single plane change on the form is painted like the facets of a diamond. Though I'd agree that the way most paint is not like that at all

>>7081761
painting (trad painting! make no mistake, digifags) has been called dead "once and for all" so many times, it's hard to keep count.

>enter photography
"paintings is dead!"
>enter concept art
"yeah, really now! painting is defo dead RIP painting!"
>digital painting spawns
"yep,, this is it, painting is no more!"
>Stable Diffusion
"this is the final nail in the coffin, painting is dead!"

Cheers to another 100 years, trad folks. painting never dies.

>>7081679
I can agree with that but the only reason we copy other things is to build mileage and understanding so we can do it on our own without reference

but what I don't get is that number 1000* Really? only 1k? There's 8billion people and millions of artists and you honestly think less than 1000 people who draw from a sense of understanding rather than copying? That seems a bit off, if OP said something like 100,000 or even 10k it would make more sense

Feels like a bait thread

>>7081678
3d form? that's basics of perspective, you really think less than 1000 people have that under their toolbelt? I'm pretty sure there's tons of artists who've mastered 3d forms so as to make it second nature as part of their process.

>>7081646
gatekeeping

>>7081805
>you really think less than 1000 people have that under their toolbelt? I'm pretty sure there's tons of artists who've mastered 3d forms so as to make it second nature as part of their process.
I think that a lot of people think that they have it under their toolbelt, but it's not fully understood or internalized.

A lot of professional artists seem to see perspective as a necessarily evil when doing environment art and outside of that context they don't even talk about it. This is also how it's approached in a lot of educational courses. They quickly brush over perspective and imply to the student that this is mostly just relevant for buildings, cars, and landscapes.

If you look at the way that even professionals draw they use a lot of comparative measurement/plumb lines. They're not really thinking of it as a 3D form, or at least they're only sometimes doing it. I don't even think that they realize that they aren't doing it.

Someone like Vilppu is doing the real thing and it's clear in the way that he describes drawing. He specifically mentions that he doesn't measure or copy. What he draws does not really look like what he was referencing, it's often in a completely different pose or only looks inspired by the likeness of what he's looking at. The reference is being used as a source of three dimensional information that can be applied to any pose. This is very different from what most people are doing

This is why proko botched that kangaroo so badly. If he could draw three dimensionally and wasn't a compartive measuring copier than he would have at least drawn a very three dimensional fucked up looking kangaroo-esque monster and not a weird flat thing that looks like a child's drawing. It was like he suddenly forgot how to draw, but when you realize that he can only draw when he's able to measure something that he's staring at or when he's drawing placeholder heads/poses that he has memorized through repetition then the kangaroo makes sense.

>>7081835
I think what happens is that a lot of artists will use perspective to save their ass. They're normally auto-piloting and regurgitating familiar eyes, noses, heads, bodies, etc, in the same angles that they're used to drawing. It's like photobashing these complex 2D shapes that they have memorized inside of their head, it's not really drawing. If it really starts to get fucked up they might use perspective as a trick of the trade to get them back on track to something that looks closer to right, but that's about it.

Every single stroke should be felt three dimensionally though. It's not just something you pop in when you're in a tight spot and you can't understand why your drawing looks off. Kim Jung Gi draws like this. When you draw like this it's obvious because you draw tons of weird shit from crazy angles because if you can then why wouldn't you, right?

That is why I say that it's less than 1,000 people. It's probably less than 500 or maybe even less than 100. Most people are drawing the same shit over and over again. They're not really drawing.

>>7081805
Professional artists and creatives in general make up a tiny, tiny percentage of the population. Less than one percent of the global population last I checked.

Things being what they are, it wouldn't surprise me if less than 1% of that percentage could be called masters with a true understanding of what they're doing.

muh drawing is only about understanding 3d, just forget about shape design, line expressiveness and technique, rendering quality, composition, etc bro and enjoy the kjg slop

just become a 3d modeler if le wacky angles is all you care about.

>>7081896
None of that matters if you fail the first step and most artists fail the first step. I don't care how good your rendering is if what you're drawing is not a fully realized three dimensional form from your imagination. Especially with AI now, I don't care at all. Beautifully rendered things are a dime a dozen now. I want something drawn directly out of your mind and realized on that page as a fully three dimensional image. I want to be transported into your imagination.

If I just want a beautifully rendered 3/4 head I'll ask the AI.

>>7081903
Are you telling me that your imagination is so boring that the only things you have inside of it are floating heads and people standing generic poses? I don't believe it. I think you have more in there and you just can't draw it because you don't know how to yet. It's not about wacky angles, it's about not being constrained to an extremely narrow range of possibilities.

>>7081646
>There are no more than 100 people who can truly draw
And i doubt yoyre one of them. Stop parroting this pathetic mentality.

>>7082140
it's a coping mechanism
if all those successful artists are not 'real' artists, then his own failure is now everyone's failure

>>7081913
>I don't care how good
>I don't care at all
Then why should I care about what you have to say

>>7081646
just draw already you autistic fuck

>>7081678
Am I a real fartist anon?
(desu I also just want to test whether I did this correctly in ffmpeg)

>>7081646
OP is just a salty 3d fag >>>/3/976367

>>7082597
NO, anything to justify why putting work in never matters. I'm not lazy, I'm not lazy, others are just gifted!

>>7082610
Check your (art) privilege

>>7081646
Hell yeah, I’m one of them bitch! You aren’t, ha ha!

Sweeeet, it actually works.
Anyways, on the thread topic, too many people see construction&perspective as a tool & a process rather than an intrinsic part of yourself and your way of perceiving & understanding the world. Everyone has a sense of perspective, it's how you judge distance, size, and the form of objects in your environment. When you gain an intuitive feel of perspective in drawing it's like you've hacked or reverse-engineered your built-in sense of perspective. What was once used only to analyze input (your vision) is reversed to create output (drawing). It's also linked with your muscle memory/sense of touch, so it's almost like you're "feeling" the space and the form of what you're drawing.
I def get what OP is saying. Although I'd estimate the number being higher than 1000. I think it aplies to any sufficiently advanced artist who puts in a lot of time drawing from imagination and has graduated beyond the need for autistically drawing mannequins and grids for everything. Although even then there are those who seem to have an especially magical sense of perspective like kokimantarou for instance.

>>7082622
Thanks for reminding me to work on my butcher the chad series, wherein "chads" are subjected to cruel and unusual deaths.

>>7082629
Only when the artist transcends the need for materials and can draw without drawing is he truly drawing, grasshopper.

>>7081646
is this board somehow getting even dumber

I only recently became able to "feel" form but it feels like my brain broke because now there's kinesthetic(?) information coming at me from all directions rather than just visual information. It feels like it's going to take an entire lifetime to master and internalize all this space and form and translate it into my own drawing. I'm kind of disappointed by how few artists there seem to be that have this skill mastered since it would feel easier to learn with a clearer image of what to work towards. I was also confused for the longest time how to apply perspective to anything other than buildings on a street but now I get what >>7082629 says and how it isn't really something that can be explained in words but wish it could be conveyed in some way other than just "feel the form" because that sounds like a meme that doesn't tell you anything about what to do.

>>7081835
Okay sure, fair enough but can you give me an example of one of those few that Have mastered drawing while thinking of 3d forms as second nature?

My guess would be kimjunggi? or one of the 9 old men from disney but who else? genuinely looking for ONE example

>>7082622
You and me both, brother!

>>7081835
>>7081854
i hate this fucking thread
>no thats not really drawing
>thats still not drawing
>STILL not real drawing bro
FUCK YOU
I HATE THIS THREAD
I FUCKING KNEW IT DRAWING HAS TO BE LEARNED WHEN YOU ARE YOUNG OR YOU ARE COMPLETELY FUCKED ITS LIKE FUCKING PERFECT PITCH YOU LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLY CANNOT EVER NEVER EVER LEARN IT LATER FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK 12 FUCKING YEARS I STILL CANT DRAW A GOOD ANIME FACE WITH HAIR FUCK THIS GARBAGE HOBBY ONLY FOR CHOSENKEKS FUCK OFF CHOSENFAGS I HATE YOU ALL

>>7081835
god you reek of dunning kruger

>>7081835

>>7081646
>>7081678
I think you're retarded and the vast majority of decent to pro artists have this skill. Of course there are various degrees of mastery with people like Kim Jung-gi being experts and able to keep track of a retarded amount of information. But it's still a requirement for any artist worth jackshit. Pretty easy to spot too, just compare those meme hyperrealist Morgan Freeman portraits with actual atelier style portraits.

>>7084485
NTA but I'd love to share some great artists who have a superb sense of form & perspective. I feel like OP is overselling just how mystical and arcane that intuitive perspective is, as if only a few wizened sages sitting atop crumbling towers on far away mountains possess such sacred knowledge. Everyone has the capability of doing it, it's literally how that we all perceive and understand the world around us. The problem is applying that instinctive knowledge to the flat page in front of us, to turn it into a window instead.

First artist: Kokimantarou
His sketches are an absolute cascade of beautiful figures and forms that you can almost feel, all in playful, joyful motion. Every time I look at his work I feel a sense of giddy delight.

>>7084603
Just gotta hit that Koki button one more time.
One of these days, I want my sketchbooks to look like Koki's.

>>7084605
Gloss

Yes, he's a coomer and a degen, but it cannot be denied that his work is actually brilliant. Incredible anatomical knowledge, figures that feel alive, and crazy perspective, which he builds upon with some absolutely masterful rendering and color choices.

>>7084603
I like your attitude anon, another great artist is neb, all their work just FEELS 3d but not in a 3d model kinda way but real organic depth sort of way.

>>7084609
This is one of my favorite paintings that Gloss is done. Partly because I love KLK but also this just looks ridiculously cool and again, rock solid construction.

I'm a /beg/let tard and I can do that. Literally just draw cubes and watch Peter Han's course on organic shapes and you're done. Of course there are various degrees, going from a simple cube to a car or a random organic shape to a body is far more complex and requires thousands of hours of practice. But sure as hell it's not black magic.

>>7084609
> incredible anatomical knowledge
its incredibly surface and most gay coomer artists shit on this

>>7084612
Keep em' coming.

Tradd Moore
This guy is so unbelievably cool. His figures and his environments flow like water, the landscape deforming and twisting and rolling like ocean waves under the earth-shattering blows of superhuman foes. If you haven't read The Legend Of Luther Strode, you really should. Not only is it just a stupidly cool comic series, but it's also the chronicle of Tradd Moore's frankly *incredble* growth as an artist as he went from someone with good chops but somewhat awkward style to being in a class all on his own.

>>7084620
Modern Tradd Moore's art really is something else. Crazy psychedelic landscapes full of moving and waving forms, beautifully minimalistic figures rendered in some absolutely deliciously flowing ink lines.

>>7084626
Peter Han

Basically Kim Jung Gi, if Kim Jung Gi could actually explain how to learn to do what he did in a practical and easily digestible manner. This guy really does deserve more credit as a teacher and as an artist in his own right. He shows that what Kim Jung Gi did is actually achievable and that there is a recognizable path to that kind of mastery.

>>7084634
I really wish I could see more of his artwork but the only place I can find it is on Instagram (which is a locked down hellsite) and a limited selection of his work is displayed on his own website.

>>7084587
>he thinks digital is real drawing
Lmao

does anyone have that peter han drawing of luke skywalker? i need a laugh

>>7084635
James Harren

His work is just so MEATY. Visceral, gritty, raw and bursting with energy and sinewy muscly toothy spiny creatures. Whereas a lot of Tradd Moore's art almost feels like these graceful, infinitismal snapshots in time, James Harren's artwork is raw power and violence. MEATY.

I also really love how almost claylike his figures and creatures are, how they squish and deform. Actually reminds me a little of Bill Wattersons's work in a way.

>>7084658
Lots of great use of scale and perspective in his work, too.

>>7081678
WHATEVER! cartoons are totally flat and I watch tons of them.

>>7084662
Yoh Yoshinari.

A favorite on this board. It's really hard to convey just how gorgeous and masterful his work is.

>>7084674
I don’t find modern yoshinari art appealing at all

>>7081646
>Only the people who's competed in sprinting in the Olympics has ACTUALLY ran, 99% of the human population has never sprinted, they only think they have hmph
retard, you started reading the opening foreword to a single book about draughtsmanship and think you've figured it out

>>7081679
to add to this, I think OP is also disqualifying painting and rendering. Since that's not drawing, so only lineart where you feel the form and are drawing straight from your mind.

>>7082629
>When you gain an intuitive feel of perspective in drawing
Okay but how? What do you even practice for this?

>>7081805
>3d form? that's basics of perspective,
I think we lost the conversation here. 3d form has (almost) nothing to do with perspective, 3d form is all about volume, as opposed to flat. You can absolutely have volume, while messing up perspective, and viceversa. The 3d effect is achieved by turning the form, that is, having full control of how the light is hitting on the surface. It's about shadow, light, and that fundamental thing, the core shadow.

>>7084931
nice

>>7081646
I am pretty sure those 1000 couldnt remake this in their own style.
Only the greats can.

>>7084851
The basic founding principle of perspective is simply that "when things are farther away, they're smaller, and when they're closer to you, they're larger". This is true in real life and in photographs and even illustrations. So what your goal is is to condition yourself to see things that you're drawing getting bigger as getting closer, and things getting smaller as going farther away. And when you condition yourself doing that, it kind of connects with your muscle memory/sense of touch to where it's almost like you're "feeling" the things inside the paper to an extent.

The simplest thing to start with would be to draw spheres going away from and towards you. A sphere with no interior lines is just a circle, so you're essentially trying to condition yourself to perceive these circles as actually being spheres, and when you draw them coming closer to you they're getting bigger and when you draw them going away from you they get smaller.

>>7085936
https://files.catbox.moe/fnioa2.webm
The basic founding principle of perspective is simply that "when things are farther away, they're smaller, and when they're closer to you, they're larger". This is true in real life and in photographs and even illustrations. So what your goal is is to condition yourself to see things that you're drawing getting bigger as getting closer, and things getting smaller as going farther away. And when you condition yourself doing that, it kind of connects with your muscle memory/sense of touch to where it's almost like you're "feeling" the things inside the paper to an extent. It's both visual and physical feedback.

>>7085941
>>7084851
(I messed up the post, whoops.)

The simplest thing to start with would be to draw spheres going away from and towards you. A sphere with no interior lines is just a circle, so you're essentially trying to condition yourself to perceive these circles as actually being spheres, and when you draw them coming closer to you they're getting bigger and when you draw them going away from you they get smaller.

You can also draw scribbly spirals going to and from you, on the same principle. Think "I want this spiral scribble to come towards me" and draw it getting larger and larger, and when you want the spiral to go away from you, draw it getting smaller and smaller.

Remember the goal is to condition or trick yourself into believing that these are OBJECTS, and not shapes, and that they are receding and proceeding back and forth in space.

>>7085966
Then after that you can try doing the same thing, except with flat planes like pieces of paper. Make them turn away from you, go away and come back and go from side to side, like they're swooping through space.

Then progress onto boxes, which are just six planes fitted together, and cylinders, which are just two circular planes joined by a tube (or you could even think of them as just a lot of planes stacked and sandwiched together into one mass).

Then progress into more complicated shapes. Draw organic blobs and draw lines moving over their surface and all around them, like the wireframe of a 3D model. Cut 'slices' out of them with an imaginary knife. It's all about exploration and learning to feel. The continuous tactile-visual feedback loop of seeing these 3D objects in your page and moving your lines over and around and through them.

Like some other anon mentioned in this thread, Peter Han is your friend. Moderndayjames has some really good videos on the subject too. And there is a guy named Marksdrawingtutorials on Youtube who has a lot of long and rambling (but very valuable imo) videos exploring the subject.

Space Drawing Perspective by Dongho Kim is a really good book on the subject that teaches you the principles and concepts in a very naturalistic and intuitive manner. Here's a link: https://archive.org/details/space-drawing-perspective-dong-ho-kim-1-2020-space--annas-archive/page/n3/mode/2up

>>7085984
1 in 1000

>>7081646
sauce on that drawing?

>>7081646
>There are no more than 1,000 people in the world who can truly draw.
You are not one of them

>>7081678
This post simply describes entry-level asperger's syndrome visuospatial reasoning
Even dumb fuck aspies can do this with minimal effort and there are a fucking lot more than 1k of them on the planet

>>7087170
Nta but I've suspected myself of being an aspie for a while. Didn't know that box drawing came with the sperg powerset

Autism the disorder used by the most insecure pretentious narcissists to convince themselves they arent just fucking losers.

>>7089685
You are one of those people.

>>7089699
i dont have autism

>>7089685
TRUTH

>>7089685
>>7089733
These are the things an insecure, pretentious narcissist low /int/ would say when they can't draw that well.

>>7089933
You think I have the illusion I can draw well?

>>7089685
Autism the disorder that the most powerful people in the world past and present always have a high-functioning version of
Cope and seethe, autists who manage to avoid going into a loop of breakdown and regression and failing to develop speech faculties are the peak of humanity and will always be head and shoulders above anyone else in their chosen avenue of interest.

>>7090117
>not all
ffs you are definitely not one of them

>>7089685
>>7089733
>>7090111
>You think I have the illusion I can draw well?
You do not, you have the self awareness to realize you will never make it so you take this frustration out on people with mental handicap.
I just know you're one of those talentless beglets who upon posting their art, gets compliments only from their small circle of friends. Without them, Crickets. Nobody cares about you and your work, and it makes your irrelevant normiefag ass real mad that people in the outliers, the schizos and the autists have more impact in society than you do. Eat Shit. You amount to nothing.

>>7090136
>so you take this frustration out on people with mental handicap.
The funniest part is that same mental handicap comes with the upside that it makes them far more likely to make it as artists due to insane pattern recognition, focus and visuospatial cognition if that's what they end up fixated on
No wonder he hates them. He sees them as defective, but their defect just happens to make them infinitely better than him at what he wants to be good at.

>>7090136
>>7090148
When's your big break Anon, never?

>>7090148
>He sees them as defective, but their defect just happens to make them infinitely better than him at what he wants to be good at.
Exactly, a textbook normie crablet, let's not give this irrelevant POS more (you)s kek.

>>7090173
>yeah guys we are gooder huh?
>please love me
LoL such a contextbook example of tumblrina-ism

>>7081646
sure buddy whatever
now tell me, where is this drawing from? i like it very much

chirp-chirp*

>>7090148
I dont understand anything.
I only know that there are two kind of autists: the op ones like Stephen Hawkin and the nerfed ones like Chris Chang

>>7084511
Cute cat anon

>>7081646
So how many of your own farts do you sniff daily OP?