/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>7070264
Japanese and east asian design for stuff in general can be easily explained as: it has to be cute, beautiful, pretty, hot, eye c ndy attractive, I want to fuck it, I want to creampie it and so on, everything is allowed as long as it's cute, hot or whatever, do your own and we will leave you alone


Western design can be explained as: it has to be ugly, non-white, degenerate, eye poison, it cannot be unrealistic (pretty, attractive...), cannot be offensive ( pretty, cute, hot...) and has to be gay and if you don't do this we will harass you

Ugliness is evil

>>7070264
rebecca sugar ran so that western design could walk

>>7070276
I think is more incompetence/inability to draw rather than Politics, this shows are like 15 years old.

>>7070282

>>7070264
Japan: chases idealization.
West: chases expression.

Unsurprisingly, chasing after expression nets you a great many abominations, because personal expression without an ideal is just unfiltered chaos and gobbledegook.

>>7070303
Just look at the industry and who works there. Look at Ubisoft now, at Disney and so own. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Westoids can't draw cute and stuff like that, on twitter you can find loads and loads of very skilled artists, coom or not but the most important key point is: Willfully, consciously and deliberately creating something ugly and repulsive. No skill will save you here


Seriously pay attention to the art and who makes it and their behavior. Nonon you need to use the pattern recognition that was given to you

>>7070318
I mean, I want to agree with you because I hate leftoids, but western animation (save for disney) has often been incredibly ugly, long before the official alphabet take over. 90s cartoons were basically an exercise in creating the ugliest shit possible.

I have seen people fapping to this shit on twitter, are they mentally ill?

>>7070264
is it true that drawing is much more popular among asian children than westoids?

>>7070341
all kids love drawing but eventually give up because they're never taught to draw properly
Asia they are taught

>>7070323
This has to be product of dysgenics and multiple mental illnesses.

>>7070334
Jcm2 alone made me like the loud house and I haven't even watched it

>>7070323
Very key points beyond the joojoos is the association of cuteness to pedophilia in the west reason for why comicggers have those beyond hideous women since it's creation even the most attractive women in western fiction in crumble before the japanese ones, the envy of ugly women and the hatred of their dogs because you can have something beautiful and teenagers parroting twiggers.

Once again, look at the art, the person that made it and their behavior, it always explains everything

I simply hate ugliness, it's disgusting, makes you miserable and there's no reason to create it (in places that ugliness isn't part of the entertainment like everything that isn't horror)

>same deviantart bobble head base with different eye and hair colors is peak character design!
>7 posters
>multiple twitter screengrabs
inorganic bait thread

>>7070372
Could it be because his drawings look nothing like the actual thing?

>>7070264
Western cartoons are meant to look retarded for the sake of comedy, and anime is simply meant to be attractive. The problem is that Western cartoons aren't funny anymore, or at least they ceased to be so around the time I stopped paying attention to them.

Western animation is more focused on big distinctive shapes with clear outlines that are easier to animate. I would say that done right it uses caricature convey personality and I get that off you're an anime fan you want your side to win, but it's the same as me saying anime is merely pandering moe-shit. Sometimes it does go pure ugly and personally I like that the west will go ugly sometimes. There's utility in it and on an art board you should be excited to study all styles.

>>7070303
>>7070276
you're not supposed to fuck children, pedos
cartoon style is based on young children drawing aesthetics and also is intentionally designed to be able to be drawn by people with no skill and resonate with them
Cartoon network is designed for children
(most) anime is designed for softcore porn addicted pedos

>>7070523
Porn is when girls pretty? You do realize that regardless of their design I can enhance it and draw porn of it, right? Them being ugly is just a lame excuse for your own insecurity, roastie or their dog

>>7070264
I was just having an idle thought - after Disney stopped making 2d animated kino in the mid 2000s - what happened to the people who used to make them? Where did they go? I don't think 2d animation skills are transferable to 3d

>>7070527
>You do realize that regardless of their design I can enhance it and draw porn of it, right?
His point is that cartoons are designed for children, regardless of whether you'd draw porn of them, zoophilia-obsessed weirdo.

>>7070530
CG was already a part of the work flow in the 90s so the oldfags who couldn't transition were probably retired by then and anyone left was probably capable of moving to a fully CG production.

>>7070264
“Symbol drawing” isn’t inherently bad.
Symbol drawing describes a specific failure mode that occurs when someone is trying to draw in a realistic/representational manner and ends up falling back on cached symbolic representations because they aren’t able to achieve a sufficient level of detail and accuracy.
But if someone CHOOSES to use “symbols” in their drawing in the first place, then that drawing should be evaluated on its own independent aesthetic merit, instead of dismissed out of hand.

>>7070264
Western animation tends to be all over the place visually (except with the whole cal-arts thing), but they tend to go for more abstract looking representational "cartoony" designs rather than the more realistically proportioned stuff that Japan goes for. The big issue is the limitation of the genres that western animation tackles (almost entirely comedy), and the cartoony designs just lend more to those genres.

It's not like Japan's designs are perfect either, they suffer from much the same issue that the calarts style does (picrel), and yet people have never gotten tired of it - which I suppose just shows either that the anime style is just inherently very pleasing, or that styles that are more 'realistic' are more inherently pleasing. I personally think it's the later.

>>7070523
Judging by how you throw that buzzword, you're clearly underage, your opinion is worthless. Go back to discord with your tranny friends

>>7070556
>they suffer from much the same issue that the calarts style does (picrel)
the intentionally generic japanese male main character self-insert phenotype and all the issues that people have with le calarts style is not even remotely comparable, what the fuck are you talking about? One is about haircuts and personality and the other one is about the entire art style itself, how are you possibly conflating these two as being similar in any way?

>>7070556
I notice the more grounded an anime style is the more fans tend to dislike it, I guess just lots of anime fans want to be removed from reality and can't handle faces that reflect it because they're so used to animeish faces, it's also why lot of anime fans reject western art even when it's good.

>>7070334
>left got one or two pics from japanese pedophile hermits
>right has pages upon pages of fanart and porn

>>7070574
Do you know how much abstract/fantastical/bizarre shit there’s been in the history of western art?
Does everything but strict photorealism show a desire to be “removed from reality”?
Have you considered the possibility that anime fans just like the way that anime style looks? And the reason they watch anime is to see anime style, instead of an anime/realism hybrid?

Western cartoons are usually meant to be funny and have personality, two things anime does not have. If on the off chance, an anime does have those two things, you can count on a remake to surgically remove them. For example, Trigun, Tenchi, and even Pokemon.

>>7070264
>I absolutely hate western design
in the context of children's cartoons

>>7070358
ruby gloom is not calarts

>>7070568
>how are you possibly conflating these two as being similar in any way?
How can you possibly miss what I'm talking about? Calarts is criticised because it all looks similar and homogenized, meanwhile that same argument can be thrown at much of anime (and has, though not nearly as much as the calarts stuff). I was trying to exemplify this with that image, and you can brush it off as "haircuts", but those are all different male MCs from different anime series; remove the stupid emo haircut and they still all look almost exactly the same
If you can't see the similarities visually for much of what japan produces, then I'm surprised your on this particular board; being blind and all.

>>7070574
Oh, it's definitely stylised, but it's also far more "realistic" than the vast majority of western animated stuff.

>>7070334
you could ask the same question about anime fags

>>7070264
>Western artist wants to make good looking fan art
>redraw characters as anime girls
>Meanwhile in Japan
It's strange how this works.

>>7070303
>>7070264
Well exactly this calarts post-2012 flash animation style is the optimal cost-efficient minmaxed strategy to produce children's cartoons. The reason for it existence is just money and speed of production. These things are aimed for children so the only thing they have to really care about is for it to hold attention. Kids don't have a quality filter, they will eat everything. I also disagree that all western cartoons are bad. They used to be animated more traditionally and had a lot of experimentation and soul. Yes they are wacky and ugly, but they are made that way on purpose to be fun and creative. I know this board is infested with coomers and anime trannie-refugees from other social medias and this opinion is not popular here, but not everything should make your girlpenis hard in order to be considered good. Especially when we're talking about media not aimed at your age group.

>>7070374
Ok tell me what exactly wrong with this design for example. It's a cartoon about 2 beavers and it's a comedy. How would you redesign them to be not ugly and be beautiful instead? Keeping them as 2 beavers in a comedy show. Also, can you draw your answer? Or you don't draw?

>>7070640
amazing art

i have a personal bias for western smut animation, kidtoons will (usually) focus on visual humor and uniqueness over breedability

Are animebros the techbros of art? what the fuck is this
we have people literally shitting on ren & stimpy and spongebob for not being iconic enough, then immediately after defending actual childporn and kirito copies
what the fuck is going on
this has to be a parody of bait

>>7070640
Westaboos are not people, they disgrace their Asian jeans

>>7070738
>childporn
Way to out yourself, underage twitter retard

Everytime you draw a cute anime girl, a kike dies a slow painful death.

>>7070264
That is supposed to be a group of young girls i think
>>7070276
>>7070303
>>7070323
>>7070358
>>7070374
You are monkey and we are going to kill you

you will only become a real artist when you realize making shit a little ugly is fun af
until then you will be relegated to making anime slop in white background to be replaced by AI

>>7070788
>implying these chuds can draw

>>7070530

I've been having the same thought. This was 1938

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy-Nwxugs-8

Sure it's old, but it's a living example of a studio with lots of people that have good animation skills. How did this just all evaporate so quickly to cheap Hanna-Barbera cartoons? What happened to everyone between this time frame and even up to the 90s? Even during the turn of the century, what happened to all the skilled people who could animate? They just gave up forever?

There is only a few people on the internet that talk about animation that have notable names but all they keep talking about are what they did in the Disney golden years. But that's the thing, it's only like less than 20 or so people. Where did everyone else vanish off to?

>>7070788 #
>implying these chuds draw

>>7070800

And then, you're to tell me that this all disappeared and only Japan and Korea picked up the mantel? Why? That doesn't make sense. Because of Disney??

>>7070742
Sure.

>>7070805
because of money. american animators cost 5x more than an animator from asia. most lower budget animations started getting outsourced in the 50/60s and it continued into digital animation

>>7070777
Your precious vtooobers and other loli retards tend to kill themselves or be suicidal more, so clearly it’s not working.

>>7070788
Most of these retards don’t draw and even if they did, they get mogged by retards on /v/ or /co/

>>7070720
Based Ralph Bakshi enjoyer.

>>7070674
NTA, but, but judging by his redesign after the pilot, Norbert was clearly intended to be handsome in-universe (for a talking beaver, that is).

>>7070303
I blasted so many ropes to mighty bee rule 34 though

>>7070264
Kill yourself
>>7070303
Bessie is cute you fucking trog

>>7070264
I feel western design get a bad rap, sure some of it is ugly, but there are plenty of cute and sexy designs too, it's a diverse range.

>>7070852
Unironically based

>>7070852
I would breed that one

>easily out-souls your moe blob

>>7070788
Guess i went too far with these fellas then

>>7070852
Rare one. I was planning on watching all the old Disney movies as well

>>7070303
I will never find anime appealing on any level.

>>7070911
You’re in the minority then! Anime is super popular!

>>7070911
gtfo normalfag

>>7070264
That cartoon is influence of the United Productions of America or " UPA " art style. Calarts as a whole is an amalgamation of several art styles. UPA has it's roots in the the 1940s, and gained popularity with television. It's characterized by abstract, graphic sensibility marked by simplified shapes, bold colors unmodulated by rounding effects or shadow, and a forceful engagement with the two-dimensional surface of the frame, as well as an insistence on using human characters. It gained popularity during the advent of TV animation because of how fast and cheap it is to produce.

Here's a video on animation styles in general, but timestamped for UPA, it also covers the Calarts style in the last portion of the video.
https://youtu.be/MYHKlsi02dk?si=Sw2eiSYdkDp2OXs2&t=1046

>>7070556
Weebs worship anything japs make. You can have an objectively superior western product and weebs will still pick an objectively inferior product because it's made by japs. Even the more mature jap manga are still aimed at children so it appeals to weebs who are mentally infantile. Western literature is too hard to read for the average /a/sshole.

>>7070374
Keep the sentences short, run-on sentences don't work in English like they do in your first language

>>7070264
>>7070276
>>7070303
>I cannot coom to it so therefore it's bad

>>7070674
Also NTA, but I think what makes them particularly ugly is that they don't really look like beavers. I'm a big fan of symbol drawing if it's done effectively, but those designs look like they were made by someone who doesn't know what a beaver actually looks like.

But yeah, that guy probably doesn't draw.

>>7070264
I liked this show growing up

>>7070800
>Where did everyone else vanish off to?
They found other jobs. Some in the arts, most went to blue collar work.
>"Blue collar work? Surely these skilled artists went someplace else where their talent was appreciated!"
The art industry back then was much, much smaller than it is today. Also, animators back then were not paid well and were not respected as artists by anyone, so blue collar work wasn't much of a step down for them.

>>7070800
Unions. I'm not taking sides here, it's just fact.
Animation unions took aggressive actions a few times, particularly against outsourcing, in the 70s and 80s. Studios called their bluff, workers struck, and that ended up accelerating outsourcing plans. You can read more about the history here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_animators%27_strike
This is tangentially related, but whenever we discuss the topic of animation outsourcing or why 2D has continued to thrive in other markets, in particular Japan, the usual slave labor accusations get thrown around. There are two things people miss out on here. First, Japanese animation focused on efficiency from the very start. They developed techniques and made value judgements on where to allocate their frame budgets in ways American animators did not. This made their productions cheaper.
The second factor, and this is completely out of the industry's control, is inflation. Japan's cumulative inflation over the past 40 years is 31.36%. That means wages would only have to rise that amount over 40 years to maintain parity. The US dollar meanwhile has an inflation of 196.8%
This is why people strike for pay raises. This is why companies outsource. The government is silently taxing everyone to death by devaluing the dollar.

>>7070264
Bruce Timm moggs anime

>>7070264
This shit thread again, we already know that Western art is contaminated with woke shit, it is self-destruction managed from China and Russia.
Do you know who manages the woke agenda? Ask yourself which countries do not apply it and you will have the answer.

>>7071201
Unironically right-wing countries have put a lot of money into spreading leftism in left-leaning countries to further weaken them but the average /pol/tard will either blame Jews or women and continue to kiss up to the right-wing countries; everyone internationally is an asshole who only protecc their own

>>7071190
Thanks for this

>>7071145
I heard some Disney concept artists and animators started art schools and at least one illustrated a popular picture book

>>7071197
why are capeshit fans like this?

>>7071226
Capeshit sucks but Timm's designs were beautiful; can you really deny that Harley Quinn from btas or Wonder woman was uglier than Nagatoro

>>7070927
It sounds like a method invented by people who wanted to draw but just couldn't
>muh style!

>>7070777
Everytime someone draws a cartoon girl 10 niggers enter your country Ilegally.

>>7070777
Jews love manga

>>7071269
pyw

>>7070372
>>7070385
This is the only way cartoon shit is passable, if its drawn in a completely different way so the characters barely even resemble where are they from.
Looking more like Anime girls cosplaying than anything else.

>>7070312
>>7070521
>>7070545
>>7070556
This thread started out as a shitter thread, but slowly and surely it seemed to have gotten better with actual discussions of the differences between east and west, non of that culture war shit that doesn't matter. I figured western focuses on form and expression while Japan focuses on everything being super ideal. This is why the best looking anime take influence from outside of Japan and would rather take from reality, because you can only take so much idealistic styles. It has fuck all to do with Jews and trannies

>>7070927
Wasn't that guy a diet racist? I mean if he grew out of that, good for him

>>7071204
Hey remember when this thread was about comparing the art styles of east and west?

>>7070999
>an objectively superior western product
Name one.
you can't

>>7071201
>China and Russia
More like from Israel

>>7070845
>>7070851
HOLY BASED

>>7070918
You're a fucking retard if you think normalfags don't watch anime. Your precious secret club has not been secret anymore for at least 20 years in the west.

>>7070742
>>7070812
It's interesting that nips, moreso the general youth, completely lost interest in western media. 70s to 2000s you can see tons of western acts, music artist, actors, directors, films, even some western cartoons/comics etc having noticeable footing in japan and influencing artists and authors over there, but by the mid/late 2010s the interest completely vanished.

>>7070374
>posts a piece of art that utilizes an ugly character
ugly has its place

>>7070523
>>7070532
You can have a
>cartoon style based on young children drawing aesthetics and also intentionally designed to be able to be drawn by people with no skill and resonate with them
that isn’t ugly.

Kids liked watching the animated Spider-Man and X-Men cartoons of the 90s and it wasn’t a crude, ugly art style.

>>7072010
kids also liked chowder, flapjack, teen titans, and etc as well.

>>7070264
>>7070282
>>7070305
>>7070323
>>7070640
>>7070672
>>7070674
>>7070720
>>7070835
>>7070852
>>7070864
>>7070868
>>7070927
>>7071135
>>7071272
>>7071408
>>7071410

SOOOOUUUUUUULLLLL!!!!
*cums*

>>7072021
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centaurus
"foot of the centaur") or Toliman (from Arabic الظليمين meaning "two male ostriches")
Four stars of this constellation (α, β, γ, δ Lep) form a quadrilateral and are known as ‘Arsh al-Jawzā', "the Throne of Jawzā'" or Kursiyy al-Jawzā' al-Mu'akhkhar, "the Hindmost Chair of Jawzā'" and al-Nihāl, "the Camels Quenching Their Thirst" in Arabic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7gZ9LIdHzM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stomach_(Chinese_constellation)
In Greek mythology, Cancer is identified with the crab that appeared while Heracles fought the many-headed Lernaean Hydra. Hercules slew the crab after it bit him in the foot. Afterwards, the goddess Hera, an enemy of Heracles, placed the crab among the stars.

>>7070358
Fuck you anon even the japanese think ruby gloom was cute

>>7072030
Soulless…

i remember jerking off to jenny wakeman as a kid

>>7070264
Not a professional but it seems like animating them in this style would actually be harder to keep them on model than a more traditional style, no?

>>7070527
>>7070374
Why do you keep mentioning dogs?

>>7070672
>this calarts post-2012 flash animation style is the optimal cost-efficient minmaxed strategy to produce children's cartoons. The reason for it existence is just money and speed of production. These things are aimed for children so the only thing they have to really care about is for it to hold attention
You shut your whore mouth, it's my jews damn it. They're behind everything I don't like. Gotta be

>>7072066
His mom is retarded

>>7071589
In Israel, the woke agenda is applied and there are strong intentions to eliminate Netanyahu for being right-wing. He even said that Soros is a danger to Israel. On the day of the alleged hostage-taking, the wokes were celebrating on a holy day for the Jews. A few days before, the LGBT people had broken up a synagogue because they did not want to celebrate Yom Kippur.

>>7071589
Israel has troons, gays and all of the stuff that the West complains about and the religious right-wingers there fight it.
A lot of the time it is Germans and White people funding it for Israel and for Arab states
The Jews that you see pushing for woke are typically not Israelis and are highly aggressive to the religious Middle-Eastern Jews that live there.
Based on my research the woke phenomenon is largely a social contagion spread among teens who want to "Change the world" and find Marxism and transgenderism through websites like tumblr, artificially encouraged by many foreign governments among populations that are its enemies. For example, Russia and China have actually been caught funding BLM in America while having next to no blacks and no wokeness in their own countries. This has been confirmed by nationalistic Russians who hate blacks and Jews alike. It is just the fact that /pol/ finds it so convenient for there to be a villain and for the villain to have a base that can be destroyed to end all of their troubles. So they poke only at Israel, which is fucking tiny and a boogeyman for many sincere wokes too. Literal capeshit mentality
And the reason we will probably never address the problem at the heart

>>7072060
The semites train people to kill the dogs, but I don't actually hate the dogs.
There also appears to be a strong connection between the Babylonian constellation and ideas of death and a passage to the underworld, which may be the origin of these ideas in later Greek myths associated with Hercules and the Hydra.
Athanasius Kircher said that in Coptic Egypt it was Κλαρια (Klaria), the Bestia seu Statio Typhonis (the Power of Darkness). Jérôme Lalande identified this with Anubis, one of the Egyptian divinities commonly associated with Sirius.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormyridae
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Stars_(Chinese_constellation)
In the Buddhist Jataka tales, The Otters and The Wolf, two otters agreed to let a wolf settle their dispute in dividing their caught fish but it was taken away by the cunning wolf.
It bore the traditional names Alkaid (or Elkeid from the Arabic القايد القائد) and Benetnasch /ˈbɛnɛtnæʃ/.[11] Alkaid derives from the Arabic phrase meaning "The leader of the daughters of the bier" (قائد بنات نعش qā'id bināt naʿsh). The daughters of the bier, i.e. the mourning maidens, are the three stars of the handle of the Big Dipper, Alkaid, Mizar, and Alioth; while the four stars of the bowl, Megrez, Phecda, Merak, and Dubhe, are the bier.
It was this that led Callisto taking her vow of chastity and solitude and forsaking the normal comforts of a husband or children.
Just two fucking idiots fighting two other fucking idiots.

Talk about art or fuck off with this garbage you low iQ monkeys

>>7072083
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg53zeCwgnY

>>7070264
stupid dogs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus
One nobleman, Mastusius, objected, forcing Demiphon to sacrify his daughter. Later, Mastusius killed Demiphon's daughters and tricked the ruler in drinking a cup containing a mixture of their blood and wine. Upon finding out the deed, the king ordered Mastusius and the cup to be thrown into the sea. Crater signifies the cup.
Crater was recognized as a constellation called Moana-'ohu-noa-'ei-ha'a-moe-hara ("vortex-ocean-in-which-to-lose-crime").
The subducted leading edge heats up and adds its water to the mantle above it. In the mantle layer called the asthenosphere, mantle rock melts to make magma, trapping superheated water under great pressure. As a result, to the northeast of the subducting edge lies the continuous arc of volcanos —also known as the Central America Volcanic Arc— stretching from Costa Rica to Guatemala, and a belt of earthquakes that extends farther north, into Mexico.

>>7072107

>>7072083
Unfortunately i think 4chan is necessarily going to attract schizoid. They can't post this shit anywhere else, it's the only place they can build their nests

>>7071996
It's easy to be world market leader when you are the only country capable of mass producing said media. That is no longer the case.
America needs to lead in innovation. It depends on first mover advantage. This is broadly true not just for media, but for all kinds of industries, and this is by design. Our labor costs are much higher because our currency is worth much more, which in turn gives us buying power on the world stage, and thus shape events through currency.
You can see the decline of 3D animation in real time right now. Other countries have caught up. The biggest CGI film of last year, Super Mario Bros, was made in France on a fraction of the budget of Disney or Pixar films.

>>7070264
I think the creator/executive producer of that show probably would think to that "Dude, it's a kids show. This is how we roll at Cartoon Network. Deal with it. You're way overthinking this. Nobody's forcing you to watch my stupid kids show."

But I also have the idea that these producers are a little crazy and lunatic and a little delusional.

either way I can't get mad over western cartoonies.
enjoying South Park lately!
It's pretty good!

>>7070276
I feel like you took some internet liberals a little too seriously with that last part.

But yes, it's also so true in a way.
Whatever, these gay libs I don't want to sit in my room and sulk all day because off these fat moralfagging twitter pigs (well, I guess formerly, I don't know what the lib social media HQ is right now.)

>>7072137
Honestly, we could have a Canada that is a culture-creator if the PM did not refuse to fund out that does not cater to his fetishes
The Canucks have great artists and animators and a gov fund for Canuck artists but the fund was taken by a legit manchild
There's the political intersection again

>>7070777
checked

>>7072060
The simps that parrot what roasties say, the nu-males. I should have made it clear. I'm sorry

This entire thread is really silly and I hope people are not taking OP, his opinions and those who agree with him seriously at all.

Go draw some landscapes of you're so worried about beauty.

>>7072010
There is a reason why kids enjoy these cartoons between 5-12, and why most anime viewers are 16+

Entirely different demographics and the fact that you people fail to understand this because it's not marketed towards your cock honestly tells me all I need to know about you not just as an artist but as a person

>>7070303
I don't see why I'm supposed to prefer the left design

>>7072968
Prob cause you don't watch shows with your dick in your hand

>>7070303
For a child design right is a billion times better but i dont expect a pedophile to understand

>>7073178
You're right but also a pedophile

>40 IPs
Discord raid detected.
Sex should not be sold to kids as entertainment. Nuff said.

>>7070800
>Sure it's old, but it's a living example of a studio with lots of people that have good animation skills. How did this just all evaporate so quickly to cheap Hanna-Barbera cartoons? What happened to everyone between this time frame and even up to the 90s?
All of them were the exact same age, same illnesses and all expectation for being paid rightfully for this hard work, all replaced by greedy execs that pandered to the lowest of IQ that enjoys slop pumped out in mass as long as no one bitched loud enough for it to stop.

>>7073299
>see anything that looks like a woman and not a hideous monstrosity
>brain instantly goes "sex sex kids coom sex children sex"
Amerilard nu-puritans are hilarious

>>7070852
Posting Ollie Johnston doesn't count, he doesn't represent the western mindset right now.

>>7070556
bottom left best imo (guy)

>>7070556
Am I the only one who does not get the appeal? I like more unique looking anime from the 80s and stuff like Studio Ghibli and Berserk. They actually look like unique people

>>7070303
Mighty bee had amazing animation
Also the design of any is supposed to be goofy

>>7070264
Modern california cancer aside, drawing the good, pure cartoon Western shit is surprisingly hard. I'm talking about stuff like PPG, MLAATR or Samurai Jack. I tend toward realism and even when I try cartooning I add a ton of details that would make animating a lot harder. Simplifying that stuff while keeping a bubbly cartoon look is hard.
Anime has the opposite problem where it only works to portray a cute, young person. As soon as you have to depict someone who's slightly older or different than a young anime person the whole style falls apart. That's why the best anime was te semi-realistic style of the 80s like Kawajiri sama or whoever worked on the GUNNM movie. That's the good shit.

>>7070640
artist?

>>7071135
artist for that too god damn. gud shid

>>7073305
OP pic looks more like an actual group of children than your shitty sexualized animu kids

>>7070334
How is left supposed to be cute? It's a human child with overly bright colors, how could that be cute?
Also, nice comparison of a presentation shot vs angry complaining shot on open mouth frame.
Even then in comparison right looks better 10 out of 10 times and it's still ugly, which only shows how low has anime fallen.

>>7070264
do you feel the same about european comics and animation?

>>7073521
I figure he doesn't know much about them. If he genuinely thinks pedo bait anime is peak of design

>>7073808
>grows up on western cartoons
>can't meme
Can't make this shit up

>>7073808
>somebody actually sat down an dedicated his time to create this
>>7073451
>monstrosities
>looks more like an actual group of children
Maybe it's just amerilardia problem kek

>>7073808
Leftist meme (I cant read)

>>7073808
holy based

>>7073808
Holy mother of based. Gemmy.

>>7073521
Euro comics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Murrikan comics. Superheros and the CCA were a massive mistake and murrikan comics are still suffering the effects of it.

>>7073980
Anime are for troons and leftist, dumbfuck. Your kind flock to that garbage the most online.

>>7070777
someone make an edit where this is the poster taped to the wall in that gains comic

>>7073808
lmao

>>7070264
ITT: tasteless faggots who can only enjoy anime and nothing else.

>>7073808
this would be in a masterclass if the western toons were teen titans, dbz and pokemon

>>7074755
/thread

>>7070334
The anime character has no personality and the US character is purposely a caricature
There's cute children in some superhero shows. I think pic-related mogs a lot of lolis

>>7073808
What a faggy meme. Kill yourself dumbass

>>7073957
Kids irl look derpy like that and not like weird moe baby dolls. I thought you would know that considering the amount of time you spend creeping on children but i guess not

>>7074934
That's the thing with kids in Western cartoons before Calarts same face
They tended to look varied and cute like actual children

>>7071204
that's because jews control all major nations, including "right-leaning" ones. Consider ukraine vs russia. Who do you think benefits from this?

>>7074967
Muslims mainly. They make up most of Vladimir Putin's backup and my Ukrainian friends report that he is shipping them in on mass wherever he conquers a town.
Jews have been largely puppets rather than masterminds in this; though I had my suspicions about Kosher Nostra but Zelensky mostly obeys orders from white Anglo dudes in the west by Putin's own words and Putin's Russia is pretty anti-semitic and was offing Jewish oligarchs against the fighting from day one
t. actual Slav who lived in Ukraine for a decade
Right now Russian nationalists are blaming Jews for the war at the same time as cursing Jews for not being patriotic and supporting the war.

>>7071135
>>7070640
SAUCE PLS YANDEX AND GOOGLE AINT GIVING ME SHIT

>>7071090
I CAN coom to Mauricia, Bessy or whichever other western design but that's not the defining factor of it being good/not
I'm a libertarian in values but I've actually began to slowly dislike ironic pedos due to how obnoxious weeaboos are about the purported superiority of moebait of all things from the selection of Japanese design aesthetics over western cartoons (we invented them by the way)

>>7070720
Fritz the Cat is surprisingly a good looking film despite the content that it holds. It's really fun to look at, especially the backgrounds (which mog modern anime backgrounds at times in terms of SOVL).

>>7074964
Literally just different artstyles that are both valid to represent the subject matter
I dont know why you are mad that artists from outside of Japan dont like portraying children as doll-like moeblobs

>>7074057
>>7074095
>>7074542
>>7074874
>>7074560
this is not /pol/ you self-fellating dumbass

>>7070640
That linework makin me shoot ropes, slime

>>7073808
DAMN i miss quentin comics

>>7073850
weebs can't meme
all they do is take an existing meme and replace the character with an anime girl

>>7070864
Don't know what that is but I’m not seeing soul.

>>7070264
You're opinion is worthless due to you being a biased weeb.
Looking at what I assume to be your other posts in thread, you argue exclusively in bad faith and using cherry picked meme twitter screencap images, like 99% of weebs.
Cherry picking a low budget show like wayside as an example of the standard of Western design is again bad faith and shows being a weeb makes people insufferable.

>>7073808
cut down the word count by 97% and it'd be a certified diamond

Both have their own merits and should be learned rather than dismissed.
Both have artists who just make the same slop as everyone else, and both have talented creative minds that use their art to express their ideas and skills.

Not everything is about showing off skill, most of the time it is aboit making a great story with animation that best captures it.

what style does Batman Beyond fit into?

>>7077040
This looks so bad…

'Anime' is like a 'laser' and 'cartoon' is like 'radial lighting'. Anime sacrifices freedom (angle) to emphasize polish (length), cartoon is the opposite. Visit pixiv and some comic strip website (gocomics) and you will see this.

The ideal is great freedom of angle and length, but this requires a strong theoretical framework. Japan, due to its great 'cohesion' (nationalism) has developed a pseudo theoretical framework that grows over time. Although I think its flexibility has reached its limit.

>>7070276
I don't know i like Japanese style but i kind of like things like Spiderman, Superman and things like too honestly it's not bad but usually i like sketch books from stuff like Star Wars to be honest that thing blows my head off every time i see it.

>>7070999
Before it would be easy to do so but now western production is so bad that nobody would even look at it because of leftoids the only chance for west reviving anything would be some guys who take it seriously and make their own studio and animations without leftie BS but give or take it would take just 10 years and few woman to ruin it all again.

>>7070640
>>7070812
Moar please, who're your favorite westaboo artists?

>>7070788
>making shit a little ugly is fun af
Fuck yeah

>>7077583
express this like you want readers to understand

>>7070264
I had to fix this racists picture to be more inclusive. It's truly horrible how racist this society has become.

>>7077643
Mental illness

>>7077643

>>7070318
>who works there
Jews and gays?

>>7073808
>leftists "meme"
>wordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswordswords
It's on purpose, right. They don't always do this out of some psychotic compulsion to verbiage?

>>7070303
This pic makes no sense to me. Mighty bee is supposed to be mainly slapstick driven, so a simple design is good, even Japan simplifies character design when they want to make a dumb joke or exaggerate movement.

>>7077643
Trying too hard not to come off like the one seething badly.

>>7077643
How is middle school going?

>>7077638
Cartoon = Globohomo = a decadent 'brown mixture' without identity or destiny, an amalgamation of everything that paradoxically is nothing;

Anime = Nationalism = Ethnic pride. Respect for one's own tradition.

>>7070640
It's almost like weeaboos only like anime/moeshit because it's cute and inoffensive and it makes them freaking cum in their greasy week old sweatpants while Japanese artists are, well, artists and therefore actually interested in art.
Westaboo artists are incredibly based and I love them.

>>7070640
wow, this looks really good. makes me want a japanese studio to reanimate some older western cartoons

>>7076675
fall special cartoon aired in the mid 2010s. one of the better cartons to come out of cartoon network over the last 20 years. essentially a retelling of dante's inferno with less terrifying imagery, though there are many "soulful" moments because the creators took inspiration from an older era in america--a more soulful time in american history

>>7079648
>It's almost like weeaboos only like anime/moeshit because it's cute and inoffensive and it makes them freaking cum
I won't go that far, but I will say this about fan art of cartoons: Western artists who draw cartoon characters as anime are often like people on /ic/ who can only do studies. They only seek to recreate something beautiful. Westaboos who draw cartoon characters on model but more appealingly, seek out the underlying beauty within any subject. That is a more rarefied skill.

>>7079765

>>7070640
Why are the drawings full of little holes?

>>7073808
Shit like lucky star and k-on weren't meant to be consumed by 12 yo children like nickelodeon cartoons, they both are fanservice products. Very dishonest shit. There's a lot of anime designed for little kids with same good messages. Also your "le wholesome" 90-00s cartoons are filled with pozzed shit about trans lives matter and white guilt. Try to rewatch them sometime, you will be shocked.

>>7079765
>alegra's window
damn bros the memories

>>7079977
>T. retard who has never seen an actual anime before.

>>7077644
>>7078572
>>7078582

Libtards seethee good...

>>7070264
It's all about communication. Symbol drawing is a code language like any other that serves the purpose of conveying something more effectively.

Joy, sadness, anger and other emotions are more easily captured that way instead of using more ambiguous representational techniques.

In this case the authors are not interested in ambiguity, symbolism or an aesthetic sense like the old masters were.

Anime is also a system of codes which is remarkably less expressive than western cartoons. Generally anime itself is shit, except those who dare to transcend it.

>>7081097
Go do your homework
>>7079977
Im only shocked by your stupidity

>>7081109
I have never understood what this 'symbol language' thing is. Does it mean reduced entropy visual inputs like a 'black dot', 'squares', a 'letter'? (The opposite would be a landscape or a realistic face overloaded with information). According to my observations, non-arbitrary flexibility and theoretical enrichment is related to entropy: the simplicity of a system is directly related to its potential conceptual flexibility.

If you want something new, simplify, and build from this 'core'.

Part of the 'persuasive power' of anime comes from this flexibility focused on low-entropy faces, which gives rise to a large number of visual tropes and narrative genres.

The West, on the other hand, prefers high-entropy inputs, which allow immediate persuasion but very little novelty or long-term theoretical enrichment (something I call 'macrostyle').

>>7070358
>>7070334
>>7070303
All the left drawings are actually meant to appeal to pedophiles. Er, I mean "lolicons"

>>7081511
A language is just a bunch of symbols that serve the purpose of communication. Modern written languages have words, the Egyptians for instance had the hieroglyphs. So symbol drawing is a visual language.

Just like there are many languages there are many types of symbol drawing. All of us have our own symbolic interpretation of reality. Picasso dedicated most of his life honing his vision. Manga as well has some peculiarities compared to western comics or even Korean. Tezuka took from Disney and influenced all the manga and anime made in the 70s and 80s. Eventually and naturally more authors added their own variations. Some more observational or others strictly symbolic. It took them decades to be able to convey the nose in 3D without losing its expressive power.

The problem arises when you lose that expression in the drawing and leave the viewer with ambiguity. On the other hand, the terrible stuff maybe have display some of its symbols (the large anime eyes for instance) but the drawing won’t be expressive or lack what we here call “gesture”.

So I believe here lays the main difference between painting and illustration. The former has the main goal of being appealing (if you take out contemporary and post modern shit) in some way while the latter it’s communication. The best comics don’t sacrifice much of the former though and with their expressive quality they achieve beauty while retaining clarity.

>>7081708
it's actually the opposite, go look at a loud house thread anywhere on this website for proof

>>7070720
>>7075246
Pure soul. The future for the western cartooning is to BAKSHI-MAXX or CRUMB-CORE (or dare I say KRICFALUSI-WAVE, but it might be too soon for that).

>>7081799
I see that, unlike the majority, you like to reduce problems to their logical root instead of describing circumstantial superficialities (etymologies, industry trends, marketing) that have no or minimal scalability towards a transcendental goal. I like you.

Personally, I am interested in anime for its objective efficiency: plasticity of tropes/genres, visual appeal and rapid geographical expansion. I believe that if we study the informal principles that motivated its development, we can create a formal axiomatic model with which the West can create a more 'efficient' macrostyle than the Japanese.

An analogy would be to compare the invention of gunpowder (trial and error; lots of iteration) with the nuclear bomb (based on logical models; immediacy).

Regarding your observations: I think you have truth in your words, although due to our incompatible lexicon the information is distorted. For example, I personally think that the term 'symbol' is too ambiguous (umbrella term) to be used when dealing with these things. I prefer to use 'visual input' which varies between 'Graph' and 'Picture' according to the amount of entropy.

>>7073808
lmao

I wont read all that but I know it's "leftist" and defending ugliness

^seething weebslop consumer

>>7073808
basically all the cartoons I watched while I was a child were shit. I don't even know what I would rate the highest. The first 3 seasons of spongebob were really the only thing that was actually good. That and futurama, but I didn't watch futurama until I was older. Fairly odd parents was probably one of the less shitty ones in therms of comedy but it was abysmal visually.

>>7073808

okay but WHEN DO WE GET TO DRAW CARTOONS??

>>7083219
>I won't try to understand it meaningfully, I'll just judge the surface of it and categorise it according to my pre-existing worldview, which I won't dare challenge
This post really encapsulates this entire thread, maybe even this whole website. Mad props for being unintentionally poignant.

>>7070556
>which I suppose just shows either that the anime style is just inherently very pleasing, or that styles that are more 'realistic' are more inherently pleasing. I personally think it's the later.
It's a blend of realistic and not at the same time
Realistic body proportions and moe face is the popular style
Despite how generic those MC faces are there is nothing that would put off anyone same for anime girls
They don't have any defined facial features like a square jaw or cheek bones
It's why people hyper-fixate on the moe styled face when trying to claim something looks authentically anime or eastern

>>7088266
which is it

>>7070276
>Japanese and east asian design for stuff in general can be easily explained as:
A wig on the same plastic figurine. How many 'Kiritos' designs are there in anime? Now then, How many 'Dexters' designs are there in cartoons? YWNBA, weeb.

>>7081834
Loud House's pedophilic appeal is accidental. It's not their fault that pedos will be pedos. But the anime characters are designed in the *hopes* of attracting pedos.

>>7077837
They know. They just believe that spreading culture war propaganda disguised as memes is more important

>>7077837
Leftists don't communicate with people as much as talk at people, it's one of the reasons they don't understand a goddamn thing.
You can dismiss it all as pure narcissistic acts of ignorance, deception and self pleasuring but never take it as meaningful conversation.

>>7077643
The nigger wokes

>>7070374
The irony in you posting a hideous basedjak picture, and most likely having basedjaks saved on your computer, or phone (even more embarrassing).

>>7079651
>makes me want a japanese studio to reanimate some older western cartoons
Once upon a time that used to be the norm, stuff like Batman the Animated Series had Japanese animators.

>>7073808
The major issue with the "leftist memes" is that not only are they not funny, they're trying to preach at the same time, masking it as a meme a lá "how do you do fellow memers and kids?"

You can boil it down to
>me good and chad
>those bad and chud
>pls adopt my politics/worldview, bigot

You can make verbose memes, but to ironically poke fun at the ones who use and abuse buzzwords such as showcasing how insane they are when all they do is repeat the same buzzwords and accusations of wrongthinking over and over, believing it will make them morally and objectively superior.
We can use these to study what absolutely not to do in storytelling or illustrations.
On the other hand, these are having an effect on retards to kneejerk react with spamming buzzwords whenever someone posts something with more than one word that is indeed inclined with the space such as a board or hobby space that should be about learning and observing and formulating these observations.
>>7077837
You can explain this by realizing that leftist ideals NEEDS to be justified and twisted, and cannot be argued for in good faith while defending insane or straight up cancerous ideals and mentally ill reasoning
What they do 99% of the time, is trying to gaslight everyone
>"oh you think xyz is MAYBE bad? haha not true you're just a schizo nazi. Stop trying to gaslight people"
They're the ones who scream in pain as they stab you and you're getting coerced into believing the
>correct thing™
because you don't want to be the bad guy, right?

This shit works on kids and women since they mostly reason with their emotions and of course are desperate for social approval, which leftist ideology pretends to offer by virtue of socially excluding and demonizing anyone that doesn't submit to them.

tldr
If anything, the leftist memes are making you retarded and illiterate because you don't read and can't formulate shit anymore.

>>7084657
Statistically speaking if you’re in college now, you went through a time when Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network were abandoning animation to create more live-action television like Disney, and the animation they were making was shit (hence why they went harder into live action). It wasn’t until Disney got back into cartoons for Disney XD and Netflix and Dreamworks sealed their partnership that animated television went into a literal golden age.

If you’re a zoomer it’s likely you grew up during that drought (and why you lust after anime children). Born too late to enjoy Kim Possible, born too early to enjoy Hilda. I pity your generation.

>>7077837
Explaining problems with a simple lie is really easy. Explaining problems as they exist, how they got there, and what to do about them is really hard.

>>7070264
It's been like that since the mid-90s, when they decided to anime more shows domestically, instead of outsourcing animation to Japan, like they did in the 80s. That resulted in the horrific Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network styles, which are basically made up of flat geometrical shapes. It only got worse when flash-style doll animation became the norm a decade and a half later.

>>7090748
They don't animate it domestically, they just out source it to Korea or Canada now

>>7070264
They’re easy to animate. They’re also easy to rig, which in turn makes them easier to animate.

>>7077618
You Yoshinari

WHEN DO WE GET TO DRAW CARTOONS

when do we get to draw cartoons

>>7070640
holy kino

>>7081708
If you see something cute and automatically assume it's sexual, that probably says more about you than whatever it is you think you're criticizing.

>>7088150
I really think Alex Toth was special. He was basically the face of American action-adventure artistry.

>>7070640
>looks like utter shit
the point being....

>>7070640
>>7070812
>>7071135
>>7071996
>>7072042
You all have to realize that while "Westaboo" is common, the reality is a lot of the best Japanese creators are just pop culture geeks in general.
For instance, the original Ace Attorney trilogy, Apollo Justice and DGS are all by Shu Takumi and are based around mystery films and novels, Eastern and Western. The characters have an anime influence but are written like the eccentrics in mystery novels.
The other stuff takes very heavily from Japanese pop culture and the characters are typically way more anime and there's a noted massive downgrade in single case characters because the anime-influence bases itself much more on serialized stories that need time to develop their characters.
The lesson here for both industries is you need creative people who get their influence from good media regardless of where it's from and know how to properly adapt it.
Even back then, Westerns and Samurai films were basically playing ping pong. Fist of The North Star was a combination of old epics and myth (Chinese, and even a bit of Western religion with a literal Christ figure in Toki) Bruce Lee movies, and Mad Max. Something that demonstrates how we need to stop distilling "East and West" to "Japan and America".

Both japanese and american cartoons are currently going through a decay because of restricting themselves to certain tropes and influences, a lot of the Western fauxnime feels so bad and disingenuous because its desperately trying to be "like an anime" rather than just taking inspiration from individual pieces of media the creators considered good and making something of their own.
Regardless of industry, good media is good media and good artists and writers are good artists and writers who aren't afraid to be inspired by each other. Even a Japanese nationalist like Miyazaki loved Golden Age western cartoons and his works went on to inspire the younger generation at Disney, including hanging out with John Lasetter.

>>7098555
now WHEN DO WE GET TO DRAW ANIME

>more experimentation which by extension leads to more crap
a lot of my favorite artstyles would be considered ugly by this place, thank fuck everyone here is too lazy to ever create anything impactful

>>7070374
Baki, One Piece and Berserk all feature extremely unconventional, intentionally weird and ugly character designs. And they are among the most popular manga to have ever existed.
I can open any hentai website right now and find thousands of artists drawing tens of thousands of incredibly beautiful women.
And they do this tremendously.
However, they tend to run together, to the point where the line between one and the next bleeds into a slurry of firm breasts and pouty lips - all flawlessly drawn.
The mark of an artist, then, is the ability to blend the beautiful and ugly, surreal and familiar - in short, to create something new. I believe this is called creativity in some circles.
Can you say that Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and Chainsaw Man look alike?
Or that Yoshitako Amano could ever be mistaken for Jakub Rozalski?
The unique and unusual is what stands out, not the beautiful and bland.
The success of AI art models is is testament to this. It can replicate beauty to a science with an efficiency beyond any man.
But anything new, anything never before created and posted for it to be trained on - this, it has no answer to.
Being splendid at drawing will no longer cut it. You will have to create.
(One might draw fault with my instantly jumping to hentai as an example of repetitive art. I would argue your only highlighting the lack of attractive women, rather than say, the more stylised or surreal elements of western art, makes your priorities on the matter more than clear.)

>>7102534
kinda skimmed what you said

>>7097419
Who are you fooling? If you watch/read enough behind the scene material for anime, then you encounter overt lolicons inside of the industry, bragging about how """appealing""" they make their little girls. It's not a conspiracy or a secret.

>>7104862
Well I Know there's an answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQk2yvkyejw

>>7073808
This is the /ic/ board anon not /lit/

>>7104862
Oh no, they make appealing designs as opposed to ugly shit nobody wants to look at. The horror! Tell us more about what goes into making anime, anon. You sound like an expert.

I don't care if it's ugly. I like it cause it makes me laugh and reminds me of my childhood neighborhood shenanigans

>>7104988
Well Hang on to your ego.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exwFemOkbUU