/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>7031009
No.

>>7031009
Maybe.

>>7031009
write some shitty litrpg/isekai/cultivation story on royalroad
wait for the suckers to bite
make kickstarter for a graphic novel/manga adaptation

>>7031009
its only viable if you have no soul and will be willing to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

>>7031016
horrible advice. nobody reads anymore except for other writers all trying to make money on the same garbage niche. don't recommend people to enter oversaturated markets.

>>7031022
lol this nigga reads royalroad

just make comic books, put them out there and see if it works out OP. could be viable, could be not-viable. there are people who make it work and I don't think they post here.

>>7031019
I'm willing to sell my soul for something beautiful...

perpetual regression.

>>7031009

It's becoming more viable by the day as AI continues to filter the anime girl in a void artists.

>>7031009
Entirely depends on which industry you want to break into. Published comics you need a solid portfolio and must be willing to work in a team with a ton of ass kissing in between. Webtoons you need tens of thousands of followers on social media, a simple and appealing scrolling comic and must pump out a minimum of 60 full color panels a week and you can only choose between 2 styles: LGBTQA+ tumblr or soulless korean sketchup asset flip. Pick your poison.

>>7031019
>its only viable if you have no soul and will be willing to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
/Thread
It also depends on your country, I know a filipina that gets paid 20x the min wage of her country to draw yaoi and post on Webtoons. Last year she bought a brand new car for her and a small house for her mother so it's obviously viable to her.

>>7031105
>Webtoons you need tens of thousands of followers on social media, a simple and appealing scrolling comic and must pump out a minimum of 60 full color panels a week and you can only choose between 2 styles: LGBTQA+ tumblr or soulless korean sketchup asset flip. Pick your poison.
You're funny anon, stand proud. On a serious note you can make it as a webtoonist assistant or join a webtoon studio too, in the latter you also need team work and a strong portfolio.

>>7031153
>>7031105
Are there any black and white webtoons that get pushed or does the algorithm ignore them?

>>7031156
webtoons is one of those places with no algorithm at all. It shows the latest posted chapters in each genre, and as more comics are posted, you're slowly pushed back

>>7031009
is it possible? yes
is it viable? i dont know what that means
is it probable? no

best chance, get 10-20k social media followers minimum, get them to sub to your patreon where you upload daily comix, and pray that pays your bills. otherwise, sell your soul and suck some fat editors dick to work as a page slave at one of the big two, drawing the same boring stories over and over written by adults who never stopped playing with action figures.

>>7031209
so my only solution is to learn Japanese or Mandarin or Korean or French or Belgian, and participate in an actually healthy comic market, right?

>>7031009
It can work but your chances of making a living out of it are slim and putting all your eggs in that basket is a recipe for disaster. Paradoxically you have better chances of making it become a job if you manage to snatch a contact in some major publisher despite the hellish competition
All in all, however, take advice from someone that's working in comics since some year now: do it only if you're down to die for it and sacrifice your future.
If you think that one day you'll want more than drawing and coloring every day for crumbles, like a social life, a family, a car, a home, or just an hobby, just find a regular ass job.
"Making comics will break your heart" said someone, and it's so fucking true

>>7031274
are you at least drawing your own stories? Or are you slaving away that much just to draw for someone else? If so, why not just switch to concept art or something less demanding? Drawing is drawing, isn't it?

>>7031256
If you believe that changing the language makes a job different, you're way too naive to even try this stuff. Bande desinee stuff is all shiny only on the outside, they demand perfection, treat you like shit and you make like 1-2 books a year, meaning, you get paid 1-2 times a year, with the usual no guarantee you'll get employed again after finishing the book. Plus there's the euro burocracy that is fucking hell and it's designed to fuck you in the ass.
What people fails to realize until it's too late is that making comics is not being an artist and doing your gay creative shit, it's a fucking job. And one of the most unstable, where people gets laid off for flimsy reasons every minute and there is no union or any kind of legalty that can prevent your employer to chew you and spit you out
If you really young, stop typing and try now. You still have time to fix your life if things fail. If you're beyond 25, just do it as a hobby

>>7031278
>Drawing is drawing, isn't it?
I wish anon, I really wish it was that easy
I talked about this stuff multiple times already on /ic/, I don't want to type another short novel
If you're not a complete psycho like me, take at least this part of my advice: don't bet everything on comics. Be sure to have the means and training to be able to fall back to a normal job AT ALL TIMES

>>7031256
>healthy
mangakas are working themselves into the hospital.

>>7031256
They are healthier overall yes (not without their own problems but at least it's a viable career in those markets), but the post you're responding to listed options that weren't that.

That said, it's not as difficult as you think to go to a different market. We have translation services, if you're skilled and you're smart about it you can work with a publisher without necessarily needing to know the language well.
I myself am currently working with a japanese publisher without being able to speak the language so I know for sure it's possible.

But of course, >>7031274 is right. If you plan on going pro, expect to spend years and years of your life working for free just to build a portfolio and skills. There's good reason the english-speaking world isn't just brimming with pro comic artists, not many at all survive the long crawl.

>>7031416
>I myself am currently working with a japanese publisher
It's like the second time in my life I hear of a westerner working for Japan outside the country. You're drawing for them or doing other stuff, like coloring or backgrounds?

>>7031429
I'm a manga author. It's porn, but I'm writing and drawing everything and I own everything but the distribution rights.

>>7031430
Oh, good for you. I won't ask if you're an /ic/ regular because the people here that can pull it off are few and pretty notorious
How much time ago the gig started? Is it going well?
Do you ever regret choosing this job?

>>7031436
>Oh, good for you. I won't ask if you're an /ic/ regular because the people here that can pull it off are few and pretty notorious
I'm an /ic/ regular. Been here for years and years. Posted my work plenty too, I'm just not autistic enough to become notorious nor have I been so skilled and prolific to attract dedicated haters.
>How much time ago the gig started? Is it going well?
Got in contact with the editor in August of last year, worked on a storyboard with him for a bit and he pitched me to his editor-in-chief in October, got approved and started working on my debut work then. Been working on that since then, it'll be out in a couple of months (nearly done inking it all now).
>Do you ever regret choosing this job?
Comics as a whole or this gig in particular? This gig rocks, only thing I could possible complain about is that I wouldn't show it to my parents. The pay is better than I could get otherwise and I feel like I'm in a better position than ever to grow as an artist.
I couldn't really see myself doing anything other than comics, so kinda moot point to ask about that. It's not a nice line of work -- it's a crazy amount of work even just making things on your own and I've had to claw my way up and out of the pit over the course of years. But I do it because I don't want to do anything else. It's this or wasting my life away as a useless NEET, probably leading to suicide in my 30s.

>>7031442
>I couldn't really see myself doing anything other than comics
That's the line that you hear when you talk to someone that can make comics their work. I'm basically the same, albeit I'm considering quitting and going back to driving forklifts because the only way this line of work can let me have kids is a fucking miracle.
Anyway, God bless you man. Wish you to never burnout and have honest publishers

>>7031443
Hope things take a turn for the better for you dawg.

>>7031199
>webtoons is one of those places with no algorithm at all
That's not 100% correct, you're talking about one category which is the "new" but the "popular" category uses a barebone algorithm.

>>7031256
Boichi didn't know Japanese when he started drawing for the Japanese market.

>>7031442
>I couldn't really see myself doing anything other than comics
>It's this or wasting my life away as a useless NEET, probably leading to suicide in my 30s.
I used to think the same but turns out I like doing animation and video games too>>7031443
>the only way this line of work can let me have kids is a fucking miracle.
That's an interesting thing, I personally don't want marriage and kids, I'm 100% sure I will never want them either.
I live in a cheap as fuck country to boot so the dollar goes a long way here, which means I'm made for that job and it's totally viable for me.
OP if you're a third worlder like me keep in mind that comics pay a lot better than most jobs in our country, even shit like webtoons, so go for it.
If you're a first worlder and you want a family then you're better off finding a real job.

>>7031009
If it's not porn/boy love YNGMI

>>7031444

>>7031416
how would I get manga work in Japanese? I want to be the artist for a manga series, but I have no idea how to get discovered by a Japanese publisher. should I just email them?

>>7032253
Most authors are not "discovered" by publishers, they apply themselves. That's what I did, and if you're setting out with the goal of working in manga that's what you should do too. Yes, generally emailing them should work but you should make sure they don't have a dedicated mochikomi (持ち込み) procedure to follow (should be somewhere on their site, don't forget to check the banners/side links).
It's the same as if you wanted to apply to any job: show them that you're qualified for the job. If you just want to be an artist, show them some manga you've drawn (read: finished work). If you wanted to write, then of course you'd show them manga you've written too.

>>7032257
In American comic publishing circles, they want portfolios that are just 5 pages. Is it the same thing for Japanese publishers, or should i do 20-40 page one shots?

Probably a dumb question, is it better or worse chance to make at least some money off being a web novel writer and illustrator? I feel like if your art is amateur level, you can make some it up off of being a good writer. Plus I think it's more memorable than making a web comic with the market and competition being over saturated.
It's probably better if you don't want to feel burnt out on drawing, you can just balance that out with writing, which to me, it's less mentally taxing than drawing.

For example, you write a novel with a couple pictures you've drawn each chapter to get more of a visual look to what the characters look and/are doing. Pretty much a light novel online.

>>7032259
Honestly, I don't know. I had a finished 40 page manga to show them so I just did that (and later sent them a storyboard for a new work too) so they didn't ask for more. A one-shot would be a good measure, yes. Deadlines weren't an issue for me because the magazine I applied to is lax with that but most places will want to know if you can put out work in volume, and meet deadlines.

>>7032268
Anon even with comics it's the writing that people are paying for. Artwork is icing on the cake.

It's doable with a supplemented source of income like a part-time job, but if you're wanting stability, you're better off having a normie job while doing a comic on the side. Very little comic creators, indie and professional, get by just on comics alone. Even manga artists will have a side-gig like working as an assistant to another artist. It's a very do-or-die lifestyle

>>7033431
why are comic artists paid so much less than plain illustrators? I see just straight up painters, illustrators, children's book illustrators, and other artists be able to afford houses and start families, and it seems like comics is always the black sheep

>>7033434
Next to no low-mid level job market in comics. Nobody wants to pay a newbie to draw their comics, there are few jobs for middling level artists. The high level artists do make decent money, with their own books or work for hire at publishers, but those publisher's standards are too high for anybody but the cream of the crop and it's impossible to make a living as a self-published artist without being well established and building your readership over many years.
The only way to make the kind of money you're talking about is to work your ass off for FREE for years and years and years before you start actually landing jobs or building a readership. This is obviously a massive filter, most people can't survive making no money until their mid-late 20s (unless they started early) and have to get a second job. That job takes time and energy away from comics, which hampers development a lot because of how much work comics are, so now working part or full time you're delaying the point before you can actually start making comics for money until what's likely to be your 30s.
That gives people a lot of time to realize how retarded it is to do this and snap themselves out of it, on top of all the people who burn out and give up.

With all those other specialties, there's a way to ease into doing it professionally. For comics, at least in the english speaking world, it's go big or go home.

>>7033822
nothing but depressing news. thanks for the sobering talk senpai

>>7031356
retard

>>7032270
>Anon even with comics it's the writing that people are paying for. Artwork is icing on the cake.
Its a visual medium, you should know better.

>>7033853
1. It's a visual/textual medium. In theory it can be purely visuals, but most comics tell the story at least partially through text.
2. Writing doesn't mean "text". The artwork is important as largely it's the medium through which the writing is conveyed.
3. Writing is what separates a comic from an artbook or illustration.
This is true for all comics. If you're making a comic over an artbook you're inherently choosing to do so because you have a story or joke to tell, and it's that story people get invested in. I'd argue that porn is where artwork is doing the most heavy lifting of any kind of comic, but even then the writing is important.
The artwork may give it additional value for a reader, but I repeat, it's icing on the cake.

That's how I see it, I'm not going to debate further because I'd only be repeating myself.

>>7033873
>2. Writing doesn't mean "text". The artwork is important as largely it's the medium through which the writing is conveyed.
Then we agree, story can be told through visuals and imo is what sets apart the great comics from the good.

I don't know what it takes because it seems completely random. I see garbage enjoyed by millions and amazing comics that don't have one fan.

>>7033434
Making comics is several orders of magnitude more work than any other art form.

>>7033984
luck

>>7033984
>amazing comics that don't have one fan.
Link 'em and you'll net them one more.

>>7031105
orr...you could just say 'fuck it', not care about the numbers of followers and just pump out your shit onto your own domain website.

For my crappy smut stories, I get a few people who check in and thats enough for me at least.

>>7033997
nta but https://zodia.thecomicseries.com/comics/663

>>7034049
Great! Let's give it a shot!
First page looks promising!

>>7034053
Huh, that's a lot of text. Okay, now that I'm done reading this let's get this story started!

>>7034054
S...stretching it out a bit huh? Well, this is certainly a unique way to introduce the cast, I guess. At least now that we've had this explained we can get to the story.

>>7034055
Oh... uh... yeah! Let's kill Zadornov! Let's go!

>>7034056
Uh...

>>7034057
Oh. Is it over? Can we get to the story now?

>>7034058
And NOW the story starts.

>>7034049
Anon you lead me to believe I was going into an amazing comic doesn't have one fan, but looking at this there's absolutely no surprise whatsoever why this wouldn't have any fans. What an atrocious intro to the comic. Instantly lost me. At first I thought it was just recapping some previous story but I could find no link anywhere to any such work. I give it an A for effort, D- for execution and a gold star for trying.

>>7034060
>but I could find no link anywhere to any such work.
sorry https://immigrant.thecomicseries.com/comics/2#content-start
it has been a while since i checked this authors work, been busy. i didnt realise they were connected stories.

>>7034066
This definitely has a MUCH better first impression. This person really needs to link to this comic somewhere obvious on the sequel's site.

I'm reading it, and so far it feels like somebody binged berserk and akira in the same week and thought "I know EXACTLY what I want to make now!"
Which is to say, it looks like somebody drawing Berserk in a poor imitation of Otomo's style. Maybe the story is good, can't judge that just yet. In terms of first impressions (and peaking at the sequel) I think this person really needs to develop their own style, because as it is it only invites comparison to much, much better works.

>>7034031
What numbers would you consider "good"?

When I had a webcomic,a few screenshots of it I fetched from the Wayback Machine website, I never had feedback about anything that I was doing,just raw data of visitors. I told a story over a decade that was two-thirds told when I was forced to abandon the domain name and hosting,Covid forcing ruthless slashing of my expenses. It averaged 3800 unique visitors per month,and 99.96 of them directly accessing the URL,and I imagine that to be a saved bookmark and return enthusiasts. The most traffic per month was over 6400,and the lowest 3200,but it hovered over 4000 generally. But no one human ever responded to my gambles of tshirt stores on Etsy or forums to facilitate discussion of the story. My economic model was Order of the Stick,another story meandering over a decade,and being successful in both having an involved fanbase and professional merchandising. But the only joiners to the forums were bots peddling South American Bootleg Viagra.

So,for the 2012-20,how "good" would this be?

>>7034076
NTA
The artwork has a cool schizo energy (which doesn't bode well for the story) but it's hard to tell what the fuck is supposed to be happening. The reading order is difficult to intuit in context and there's little to help indicate the intent. For example, the first "panel" ends on "Know your DESTRUCTION!" with text box placed right next to what I can only assume is the 4th panel, causing us to skip the two that I assume are supposed to be inbetween. Furthermore, the text itself is atrocious. The typesetting is horrible -- the font choice sucks ass (but at least it's not handwritten, that would be impossible to read here), you have text squished and stretched to fit bubbles instead of bubbles enlarged to fit the text and somehow you've still got the text pressed right up against the edge of the bubbles AND page as a whole. Both are big big nonos for readability.
If you want people to read your comic, you have to make it easy to read your fucking comic. This is something that OOTS absolutely gets right, but that's not the only reason it succeeds while your work stumbles. OOTS is a simple premise that gains complexity over time, it's based on relatable experiences to the intended audience (fantasy/tolkien nerds) without alienating a general audience. It's clear and easy to read and the artwork is digestible.

And I don't want to discourage you but there's a good chance those hits are just bot visits I'm afraid. If you've been going for a while I doubt you have no readers, but without advertising your work it strikes me as unlikely that you would build much of a following with what you're showing here, especially if this pic is your work AFTER years of developing your skills.

>>7034076
what service did you use to track numbers? statcounter iirc never differentiated between bots and people very well.

>>7033986
...so they should be paid more, right?

>>7032270

Bro, just curious. Do you have to draw an entire ero-manga? or is it possible to pubish mothly short stories like the ones in Comic Karaikuten and other hentai publishers?

>>7037287
You'd be better off getting into contact with an editor at one of those magazines and asking them. I don't know what the situation is with the authors who only draw those little omakes at the end of magazines, so I don't really have an answer for you.

>>7031009
If you make something as popular as Kill Six Billion Demons, then yes.
You are unlikely to do that.

>>7033822
>you're delaying the point before you can actually start making comics for money until what's likely to be your 30s.
i WILL retire early in my late 40s to draw CGDCT

>>7034121
It was part of the interface of the hosting service. It showed webcrawling things too,but those were under one percent of the traffic while most were direct domain name accessing.

>>7034087
This strip was what I wanted to produce:something that I could knock out on a weekly update in my spare time. But life intervened and I found myself stuck in waiting rooms with a sketchbook to pass the time. A story grew from a random drawing of a demon head, and having nothing else to upload,that became my story. Completely unplanned,unscripted, spontaneously generated. Flawed, admittedly, but still a story that had to be told. Also made a dozen years ago when reading it meant sitting in front of a desktop screen,not to be squinted at from a smartphone. I tried to make this story more palatable by isolating and enlarging the panels into a video format,like this:

https://youtu.be/jeNSwSU-jlE?si=5EDYIS4Ly84FehQw

Overall, its the story that is important, and I chose this strip to be the example of this. It was a half hour fiddling with my phone,and it too is flawed, but the more that get made the better they will be.

>>7034087
And this is how I draw NOW. Still finding my limits through grinds like this,adding black pen to pencil as an education, I hope someday to have more free time to do a proper retelling of the Snowglobe story in full color and in the Photoshop cobbled way I did the newspaper sized strip.

>>7031009
Yes. Comicsgate-fags and adjacent anti-comic book establishment creators have essentially made an island of loyal paying customers willing to buy their indie books funded through Kickstarter and Indiegogo. The catch is you either have to be talented enough to work in the industry if you wanted (Ethan van Sciver) or you have to cultivate a huge comic-reading audience and then have them transition to your products (Eric July).

If you're some nobody whose neither a particularly good artist or writer or/and can't get a somewhat decent social media following, you're DOA.

>>7037823
Comicsgate really opened up crowdfunding comics, never really saw it blow up as much as it did before that or maybe I've been blind
I'm a comic artist and I work with various writers. All they do is pay me a page rate and they handle all the other work. That's all I want, just draw draw draw and no shilling bullshit.

>>7031156
>black and white

you've already lost.

>>7037802
>>7037805
K, cool dude, but please please fix the text issue moving forward. The artwork is cool but the text kills it. Look up typsetting and lettering guides if you need instruction, or just look at professional comics/manga for examples. I'm absolutely certain your readers will appreciate it.

>>7031058
>there are people who make it work and I don't think they post here
the correct response to basically every "should i do it??" thread here

bump

Is it possible to make a scott pilgrim esque thing nowdays or are those days gone

>>7040573
seconding this question

>>7040573
>>7044284
Nobody is going to stop you.

>>7044357
poverty will

>>7044376
If you're asking if something will sell then the answer is there's no guarantee that ANYTHING will sell.
Not sure what you're expecting here, if anybody knew exactly what sells and what doesn't it'd be easy to get rich. The most reliable way is to throw a ton of shit at the wall, it's all a gamble, even seemingly safe bets.

>>7037300
Thanks man, I meant those short 15-30 short hentai stories like the ones shown on sites like fakku.
I think it would be more viable to start doing those instead of drawing a complete ero-manga at once.

>>7040573
>are those days gone
yes
only FOTM porn today

>>7045550
Oh, the way you phrased made it sound like you were talking non-ero. The publisher I'm with is actually an outlier in how long they allow the chapters to be, most are more in the realm of that 15-30 page mark you're thinking of. Those are still complete chapters.

>>7045608
I apologize, I typed too fast. Yes I meant those short hentai stories of 15-30 pages, that are published in those hentai magazines.

That is wonderful. I really wish you the best of success! :)

>>7031009
Yes but not for your drawing or writing ability. Even though some skill is required, what really matters is that you are loved by your audience.

>>7046695
how do i become loved?

>>7046743
Don't listen to the "get your love from the audience" faggots, they're leading you astray and there's nothing at the end of that road but misery and alienation. They don't know anything about what the average audience member is actually like, you are a tool or momentary fascination to them and nothing more. They'll replace you the moment they can and they don't have any respect for you as a person anyway, because all they're after is your art, not you.

Get your love from within, or from people who are far, far outside the art realm. Pursuing love in art is foolish. At a certain point you'll realize that 100k internet worshippers aren't worth a single real friend that loves you for you, not for what you do.

>>7031009
Yes, if you appeal to one of two camps:
>lgbtqrstuvwxzy sjw crowd
Or
>anti-sjw comicsgate crowd
If you don't appeal to either one, just get a regular job. You will never make enough money to survive on unless you live in a 3rd world slum

>>7046861
where's the anime crowd?

>>7046863
Mostly within the first group. Second group prefers capeshit style art.

>>7046839
A man is only worth what he can make/his skills/his net worth/what he can provide and that's the harsh truth.
You're either a woman or were raised like one, this is some basic shit every guy learns while growing up.

>>7046877
I can make a living through real world skills that I've acquired. Art is sacred, and I wouldn't dream of tarnishing her through petty profit seeking.

>>7045608

That is great!

Do you send, to your editor, your stories in Japanese? or Do you send your hentai story in English and then they do the translation to Japanese?

>>7047438
I send them in japanese, though after a while my editor asked me to include english text too so he could cross reference their own translation with mine.
You don't need perfect japanese, just enough to communicate the idea. The editor can always fix it up at the end when he's typesetting the work anyway, though obviously that's difficult if it's hard to tell what the intent is to start with. But maybe some editors wouldn't want to do that, I don't really know. Doing it this way is probably too new to have industry-wide standards for how it's done.

>>7047081
Oh, great, you're another one of the casual hobbyists lowering the bar on this board.

>>7046877
>>7047486
PYW

>>7047081
Bro I'm a hobbyist also but
Art is a hog you ride through the swamp and after you didn't fall off for long enough you make something outlandish and try to sell it.
Get as good as the best guys technically that should shut everyone the fuck up

>>7046861
>sjw/comicsgate
I think this shit is running its course. People like the Cartoonist Kayfabe guys are carving a niche outside this retarded 'debate' and just want to make fun comics.
Granted it makes sense to have multiple income streams, like a YouTube, Patreon, etc. Relying on comics alone (especially print) is not a practical path at this point.

>>7047994
>I think this shit is running its course.
I wish that was true but it isn't.
Blue hair retards are still bleating about muh representashun, and how seeing a trans-poc-disabled-neurodivergent-whatever character in comics stops trannies from killing themselves and anyone who doesn't agree is a nazi. On the other side people are still throwing money at EVS and All Caps thinking they will somehow bankrupt Disney. Making an outrage channel like CriticalDrinker will still pull in thousands of viewers. If you convince viewers you're The One who will stop the sjws, they will give you money. YoungRippa, a guy who doesn't draw and has no industry experience, has made millions on that promise

>>7048031
This is a sign of how unhealthy and rotten the industry is to the core. It needs to be burned away so something better can grow from the ashes.

Why even seek to put a comic on paper nowadays? Get a domain name, tell your story, and eventually get a following and profit from the traffic.