/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6946274
yep

>>6946274
Well, to answer that, we would have to answer "What is art" and I do not think this board is capable of coming to a civilized consensus on that whole can of worms.

>>6946274
photos are art, so photorealism should be art too.

>>6946274
no. only anime girls in voids are art

>>6946274
No.

To take a photo and reproduce it onto paper or canvas is akin to an artisan craft, you learn the technique and you can do it forever, but there's nothing there being created, just reproduced.

>>6946274
Yes.
Do I like it?
No.

>>6946274
things that arent art:
- photographs
- photorealism
- AI
- anime
- oil

things that are art
sculptures

>>6946304
Also welding is the purest form of art the combination of skill, engineering, geometry, aesthetics and usefulness.

>>6946304
BASED
A
S
E
DESAB

No (and I read this in a book) because it's a portrayal of a photograph.

>>6946274
People that say photorealism is not art are the people that cannot draw realistically and dont have the skill to draw the likeness of the human face. They draw anime because it is simple sameface cartoon crap that anyone can do. That is why photorealistic art is in art museums and anime drawings are not.

>>6946559
lol are you saying anything that's in an art museum is art and anything that isnt, isnt?

>>6946371
then I suppose if you've ever used a reference from a photograph it doesn't count as art

>>6946274
Yes
However it's lack creativity.
You are good at photorealism, you are a good tracing artist, that is all.
Still better than pseudo AI slops

>>6946274
yes and no
copying perfectly from a photograph takes no artistic input so I wouldnt say its art

If you mean making an image from imagination that would look just like a real photo, then yes.

Everything that puts the artists personal twist on something is art. Photorealism is thus on the edge of it. But it is still a creative process because the artist choses what to draw, in what format, with what medium and so on. It is still a communication of their personal style. Even though what it communicates is „i have no soul“. That in itself is a valid statement.

>>6946306
Taoists say its useful to be useless and many people din't understand that. I'm a welder and I am learning how to draw so I can be less useful to others and more useful to myself.
Picrel something I made, a hypodermic bong needle that turns soda bottles into a bong

>>6946801
>dude weed lmao retard tries to be more useless
Like pottery

>>6946801
based

>>6946803
A fruit tree is useful and its whole life it's abused, its branches torn off, bark stripped, fruits ripped out and devoured by others, and finally its cut down in its prime to make firewood or artsy fags to make pipes out of.
A gnarly half-rotten oak with crooked as fuck branches and poisonous leaves lives to be 1000 years old and people look and marvel at it? Why?
Because its useless, full of toxic sap that burns the eyes and nose if burnt, branches crooked so fags can't make tobacco pipes out of it, full of termites so nobody gives it a second glance.
It became useless to everyone and is rewarded for it by being useful to itself.
What do you, a crab, know about the usefulness of the useless?

>>6946807
Indeed, can not be used if you are useless. But if you are not usable, you will stay alone. Unlike a tree, people only value people that are useful. Your choice. Be used or be cast out.

>>6946810
People ain't shit

>>6946811
Yeah, useless people tend to not know of they joys of being useful, it just makes them resentful and bitter.

>>6946274
It is art and it's actually an indicator of skill for the most part.
But at the same time it's pretty boring. Normalfags love this shit though.

>>6946789
>Even though what it communicates is „i have no soul“. That in itself is a valid statement.

>>6946274
Why are you asking dumb questions that have an obvious answer?

>>6946813
What are you prattling about? I'm very useful to corpos and my family with my welding skills but I wanna do something for myself with drawing, why does this trigger you so much? Do you feel useless and happen to be projecting?

>>6946274
I mean. is art even art?

>>6946306
>Also welding is the purest form of art
Next to nose picking, that is.

It can be, yes, just like photos can be art, but it requires a truly autistic level of patience and time to produce something which looks just like a photograph down to the last pixel.
At that point, it just becomes more of a parlor trick than anything else. It becomes a lifeless photocopy, a 2D shell lacking the benefit of normal realism. Why not just take a photo and spice it up in photoshop? It would achieve the same effect.
It takes so much time and effort, you’re better off doing something less realistic and it will likely look better any way. With photorealism you lose that impressionistic/painterly quality that realism and other styles have, you lose the ability to suggest things because the detail is too consistent, you lose the qualities that cannot be replicated by photography.
I also believe that photorealism is a cope for people that can’t draw well from imagination and come up with creative ideas. They suck at composition/color theory so they just copy shit down the last detail. You try and get these guys to draw from imagination and they lose their power level because they are so reliant on photos to solve their problems.

>>6946274
By most subjective definitions, yes. The better question is; "Is it good art?", No.
It's dull, and you're just capturing what a camera could do better, regardless of the impress display of skill. If you have these skills, you should be using them to make the "unrealistic" realistic. Unless of course the artist can only draw an image by directly copying their reference, in which case it's not even an impressive display of skills.

>>6946274
It's fucking boring, but yeah

>>6946567
I'm not coping the entire photo you mongoloid
retarded logic

>>6946274
Yes. you may think it's BAD art, but it's generally considered art and has been longer than you've been alive.

How do these retard bait threads get so many replies? I wouldn't have either but then I realized there are 24 fuckers ITT, and /ic/ is a SLOW board.

>>6946801
post your welds

>>6946274
ART
IS
NOT
CRAFT

>>6946281
Honestly everything involving human expression is art, it's an extremely inclusive label. You don't have to like the art, but to call something 'not art' is silly when the person on the other side went through a creative process to make it.

Please note that this definition excludes things like finding shells on the beach or generating AI images. You can make art with images you generated or seashells you found by arranging them into a collage or editing them somehow, but since those things are sort of latent in their respective environments a person picking either out of the crowd is more an act of discovery than creation.

>>6947125
Kek
You do understand that prompting is a highly creative act, no?
And picking is also creative because not each person would pick the same shells. So the final collection is something the collector created that is a reflection of them.

>>6947128
>And picking is also creative because not each person would pick the same shells. So the final collection is something the collector created that is a reflection of them.
The collection or the final arrangement is definitely art, absolutely. But picking an individual shell off the beach and saying "look at this art I made" is a bit silly. Prompting can be a creative process indeed, and I'd say that the prompts themselves can be art in the way poetry can. But doing an interpretive dance routine across a beach may be very creative, but an individual shell isn't an art piece regardless of how you chose to move to get there.

>>6947131
>>6947128
And to be clear, if you do something to the prompt to remove it from that latent space somehow, even just inpainting some areas to add a feature or fix some flaws then I think you have a much much better case for calling it art. It's really just that taking the raw output unedited that I don't think fits into the definition.

>>6947131
No, an individual shell is not art. But i do not see how AI images could be compared to that since there is no AI image output without an inout and the input is always a expression of the one prompting for the pic. Anyways, it certainly is not the same effort as drawing it yourself. But is the amount of effort really what defines what is good art and what is not? See photorealism. It takes a lot of time and effort but it has much less substance, in my opinion, than even AI images because these are at least built completely upon the fantasy of the prompter and not just a replication of something that already exists.

>>6947135
Ok, lets take pic rel for example.
There is no inpainting because i do not have the tools do to so yet.
But i prompted for this on the middle i was going trough an extremely emotional breakdown. I literally was ugly crying as i did it. Yeah yeah, i know it is cringe but for the sake of the argument, this picture has a lot of symbolic personal meaning to me and it was made with a fuck ton of raw emotions. How is it not art just because i did not use my own hands to draw it? Is poetry not art either? Because it was me that chose which words to use to describe the exact picture i wanted to see that expressed what i needed to express. How is that not just visualized poetry?

>>6947140
>>6947138
Okay, so ultimately what's happening when you generate an image through a latent diffusion network is the following: You provide a text prompt, which gets tokenized and converted into a vector by CLIP. That vector is convolved with random noise from a given seed, and then the latent space is traversed according to that vector to arrive at the latent representation of the final image. There are more moving parts with how the image is denoised, but the point is that the process is completely deterministic and that the image you're generating already 'exists' within the latent space.

That's why I compare generating images to finding shells on a beach, the image/shell already exists somewhere, it's just that nobody has come along to pick it up yet. When you're feeding a prompt into the generator it's effectively the same thing as deciding to walk a certain way along a beach. I think the path you can take to get there can indeed be creative, but that doesn't really change the fact that the result wasn't really created by you as much as you found it before someone else did. And like I said, the prompts themselves can certainly be art just like poetry can be, it's just that there's a very fundamental disconnect between your input and the ultimate output - the image 'existed' long before your prompt did.

>>6947154
I see. But still, if nobody ever thought about trying to find that exact image, it might have never been „born“. Couldn‘t the same be said about all creations though? That sounds exactly like the concept of the kiss of the muse. Anyways.

>>6946274
No.
Art requires INTENTIONAL DESIGN.
Photo realism is just copying
A sketchlet is a better artist than a photorealism artist because the sketchlet has to make intentional decisions about the types of strokes hes putting down.
Photorealism is just following instructions, its not "creating" anything.

>>6947039
>has been longer than you've been alive
Photorealism is extremely recent wtf do you mean ?
Realistic and Photorealistic are different things
Renaissance drawings are not "photorealistic"

>>6947140
>How is that not just visualized poetry
Because you did not design that image.
All you have created is the concept for a piece of art, but art is more than just concept and story telling.
art is design.
The AI designed that image, not you.
What a piece of art is "about" is only a tiny, and frankly insignificant part of what makes it art

Just in the same way that poetry is not just any combination of words that convey meaning. Poetry is the composition of words to appeal to inherent human aesthetic sensibilities.

>>6947165
> But still, if nobody ever thought about trying to find that exact image, it might have never been „born“.
I mean sure, it's possible that nobody would have seen it if you didn't find it. But that still doesn't make you the person who created it.

In my admittedly worthless opinion, you need to actually do something to the image, act on it in some way, in order to turn it from something found into something you created. It really is largely a philosophical distinction, but I do think it matters that we consider it lest we approach image generators from the perspective of a consumer rather than that of a creator.

>>6947232
The AI didn't really design anything anon, like I said the sum of every image that stablediffusion is capable of creating is already spelled out within the latent space that exists within its model weights. If the AI were capable of designing then I'd think generated images were art, just not art created by the prompter.

>Poetry is the composition of words to appeal to inherent human aesthetic sensibilities.
I disagree tbdesu, I don't think art is required to conform or appeal to anyone. Poetry becomes poetry by virtue of a person creating it. It doesn't really matter if it's beautiful shakespearian prose or a series of enraged and horny shrieks. Like I said, I believe that 'art' is a very inclusive term. I don't even really think art has to mean anything in the first place, at least not beyond the fact that a person decided to create it in a certain way.

>>6947140
Teach me how to prompt images, please.

I need still life ideas and concepts.

PS: I hope you are better now.

Tanks.

>>6947239
>the sum of every image that stablediffusion is capable of creating is already spelled out within the latent space that exists within its model weights.
I don't get this. In dalle 3, I can specify positions of things, I can have text, I'm adding data to the result.

>>6946274
Yes. The anime-drawing chuds saying that photorealism is boring have never actually gone into a museum and stood in front of a 20 foot tall photorealistic painting.

Too busy looking at patreon hentai art online to make it into a museum i geuss lmao

>>6946274
You must be able to do this before you start drawing anime.

Photorealistic art is like those pianists who play everything ultra fast but without any proper expression whatsoever. Shit is impressive on autistic level but there is no connection to the human condition and you always feel empty and bored with these feats of autism.

Only if you can draw photorealistically from imagination, I guess
Otherwise you're just a camera made out of meat
Which is fine if that's what you want, but I think that sounds pretty boring

>>6947261
dalle 3 has a bunch of other controlnet-like features that sit in front of the model and do some preprocessing to the result. So yes, that is in fact a different situation because you're not just traversing the latent space.

>>6946274
It's a skill, the subject/piece makes it art.

>>6946306
objectively wrong, Math is the highest form of art

>>6946274
Yes, it's the best way to flex your art skill just because it's one of the most difficult things to pull off. If you fuck up, it can go to the uncanney valley real quick. Only a coping beg would pretend to not be impressed by it.