/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6889060
the story/settings don't demand it? japanese stories seem to be a fair bit wilder...

>>6889060
-western creators learn from other westerners and they stand at the end of a long lineage. it is hard to break out of certain styles, and even harder to completely shake off their influence, especially when audiences have become familiar with the visual language and shorthands.
-manga and comics have different visual languages and shorthands (not completely different) and both media exert a strong influence on what animation in their respective spheres look like
-western animation industry is pretty nepotistic and hard to get your foot in the door, so one's merits aren't as valuable as one's connections which may explain why the internet artists you mentioned aren't getting into animation
-need to go to expensive school like calarts to have a way into the industry so potential talent is again sidelined
-western 2d tv animation no longer goes past the animatic/storyboard phase, the actual keyframes and inbetweening and movement are handled overseas, thus western animators are unable to refine the motions themselves
-energetic animation a la Yoshinori Kanada and his imitators/disciples has become part of the DNA of modern anime; western animators know of a few Kanada school animators like Imaishi and Yoshinari but they don't really incorporate their influences fully due to the aforementioned problem of all the key animation being done abroad

>>6889060
most adults think enjoying fluid and fun animation is childish, they don't want a show with stunning animation.They just want the who what where when and why.

Composition and design and stuff like that are for movies, about real people, making it more real than some silly cartoons. They're terrified of being seen as childish if they ever say something like "ed edd n eddy has the best animation style out of any cartoon"

>>6889060
American animation industry isn't that big so it's often the same people going around, and corpos like a safe and standard style both in terms of art and direction

>>6889073
>ed edd n eddy has the best animation style out of any cartoon
This but unironically

>>6889060
>Can someone explain to me why the vast majority of "serious" and "adult" western animated series have such bland visuals and art direction to the point of lacking soul?
Haven't we gone through a long stretch of children's animation lacking quality in visuals as well? I think the issue is that western animation (or more to say, American animation) is too focused on 'efficient' artstyles (think the dreaded calarts style) rather than trying anything exciting, fresh, or possibly boundary pushing.

We don't really see cartoons that are completely distinguishable by their art style like we used to, like with 'Ed, Edd & Eddy', or 'Dexter's Lab', or 'Samurai Jack', 'Batman The Animated Series', a lot of shows these days feel like their characters could be copy/pasted into each other and they'd fit right in. The last show that felt really visually distinctive was... 'Adventure Time' maybe?
These isn't a screed about studios having in-house styles, like Hanna-Barabera did, but that show runners should be more ambitious than simply looking like what's currently out there.

Though maybe there are some kid's cartoons these days that look great, I'm not really keeping tabs on what's out these days.

>>6889060
>actual "western anime" just looks very boring.
I found the problem: YOU HAVE SHIT TASTE

>>6889171
I feel like because Western cartoon producers wants their cartoon to be taken seriously like an adult form of entertainment, so they ditched the wacky artstyle in favor of muted, bland artstyles meant for 'adults'.

>>6889060
Have you looked at French animation? France is just Japan light and counts as the "west". So are you talking about American/Canadian animation? Because if you are, why does it NEED to look like Japan's cartoons when in this day and age they can just fund the source country to make what they want?

>>6889060
ask the gooks that animate them

Westerners specially Americans/Canadians are talentless retards poisoned by a corrupt art industry and wokeism quotas

Well, there's Netflix's Castlevania. Netflix's Scott Pilgrim, upcoming. Netflix's Arcane. Netflix's Love, Death & Robots. Netflix's Midnight Gospel.
Hmm.
Seems to be a problem with the suits and the profit margins, unless you think all the creativity is at Netflix for no good reason.

>>6889060
Lack of soul. Low tier western creators are incapable of being sincere because the investors won't allow it. You have to realize this is a business, not real art. Only film directors get to have that freedom and that's happens when the director is also a producer

>>6889254
subhuman IQ levels detected, they should stop handing out phones at retard school...

>>6889240
^ the French are the best source of western animation, unlike in America, animation is actually respected, and seen as an art, because of that, the animation schools aren't shit, any random student from Gobelins will mog the best calarts shitter.

>>6889269
Sure, but what french animated series are on-going right now? You can have all the talent in the world, but if they aren't working and putting that talent to use, then it's fucking useless.
Frankly other than the Miraculous Ladybug and Wakfu, I can't think of any French animated shows, and only one of those has impressive animation.

>>6889271
There's the the new season of Invincible, that one superman anime thing and the ubisoft crossover anime alongside original stuff like Princess Apocalypse, Les Kassos and Crisis Jung being animated by Bobbypills
Ankama aren't the only french animation studio, it's just that not all of their productions are getting exported to other countries.

>>6889060
MUH SOUL!!!1!1!!!!

>>6889279
*it's just that most productions doesn't get exported out of France

>>6889073
>>6889060
This right here. Western studios think exaggerated art styles, animation, and character designs aren't "mature" enough.
They want their shows to look more grounded in reality, because their show is DARK and SERIOUS!
That's why the Western art styles for "mature cartoons" that aren't comedy always look stiff but more "realistic". At most, you'll get slightly bigger eyes.
Modern Westerners are too afraid to embrace fictional designs and movements. Even if they wanted to go full jap annie-may, I don't think they would even know how to do that.
All of the old Disney dudes who inspired anime in the first place are dead and never passed on their knowledge. So all we're left with are cartoons that are too ashamed to fully embrace being a cartoon.

They will always try to imitate live action. No exaggeration allowed.

>>6889279
>There's the the new season of Invincible
Ah, didn't even realise that one was french.
>Bobbypills
And I totally forgot about Bobbypills, I quite like their style.
Still, for how well regarded french animation is, and particularly how regarded Gobelins is, there doesn't seem to be that much coming from France animation-wise. Though maybe they're just being out-sourced for animation work, and it's thought to be American (like invincible).

>>6889060
it's all about money
in west they still have in mind that the animation it's a way to sell toys , so the investors aways put money into things that can be marketable , animation costs are high, so they rent cheap studios from other countries to do in the cheapest way possible
when aired in tv they can make money with ads, depending on the country, like in my country for example the government banned ads for kids, virtually killing every animation from air on tv
so doesn't matter if there are skilled artist in the west when the industry already made their stand on how things are , because to get close to asian standart you have to invest way more people and money and time and only a few companies can have the money to do and risk the failure in a new adult ip that will possible be too niche to make any money

>>6889060
A more objective reason would be that the industry is simply different. Like how English anime dub voice actors sound like complete garbage compared to Japanese, it's not because they suck fundamentally, it's that anyone with the skills/talent do not work in said industry. They get hired by video game companies. Same goes for art. Anyone with the skills/talent work in 3d animation, not 2d. Or again, get hired by video game companies. I don't even know of any western equivalents of MAPPA, Kyoani, Studio Bones, Trigger, Ufotable, etc. Mind you, compared to Disney, these companies are absolutely tiny.

>>6889448
Tl;dr, There are a lack of medium sized companies. The skill and talent exist but they are not concentrated in one place. Big companies have too much of a monopoly on everything.

>>6889267
You're a retarded tranny faggot freak

>>6889060
Money. I think the charm of the west is the unique visuals, but lately this is dropping, because it's expensive, all the shows are just copying each other with the d face shape, simpsons copycats and lately rick and morty.

>>6889060
>bland visuals and art direction to the point of lacking soul?
it makes it appeal more mature to the average normalfag who thinks bright colors or silly artstyles automatically equate to children's media

>>6890472
This. It's primarily fear-driven

>>6889476
if you stopped jerking off to troons you'd realize you're even lower than them on the social scale.
you'll die lonely and stupid.

>>6886895
I see why this thread went up

>>6891734
never heard of wolfwalkers and long way north. they look blender-core lol

>>6890472
to be fair, 99% of anime nowadays is made for children or to be fap material.

>>6891828
So...nothing changed?

>>6889315
>>6889067
There are a ton of artists than can draw anime/manga style but they want their "unique style" that just ends up looking like some weird mashup of manga and comic, also most western artists learn paneling and composition from comic rather than manga wich makes it even more obvious, also in animation they usually work with gooks from start to finish so designs are strip down from any complexity like in western cartoon design wich gives it their distinct "studio mir style" that most western anime has.

>>6889315
this is the most unappealing drawing I've ever seen. I could draw this shite and I'm a beg tier, but I wanna draw appealing anime characters which is far more difficult than this ugly crap!

>>6889171
>Haven't we gone through a long stretch of children's animation lacking quality in visuals as well? I think the issue is that western animation (or more to say, American animation) is too focused on 'efficient' artstyles (think the dreaded calarts style) rather than trying anything exciting, fresh, or possibly boundary pushing.
This has literally always been the case for TV animation. Hanna Barbera and the UPA style, those 80s toy commercial cartoons with more realistic art that leaned heavily on still shots, the move to flash. Television animation has always had to work with a low budget, and thus has always had to make concessions in certain areas. And today, we look back at the cream of the crop, the artists who found creative ways to work around those limitations, with fondness, and forget all the schlocky bullcrap that came around the same time - which is what people will do about today's cartoons in 20 years.

>>6891753
>wolfwalkers
>blendercore
do you have eyes?

>>6894120
>I wanna draw appealing anime characters which is far more difficult

>>6889315
>They will always try to imitate live action. No exaggeration allowed.

To be fair, it's possible to have "realistic anatomy" and still not look bland.
Look at berserk (1997) and you will see how, baring a few characters like Griffith, most of them look like actual people.

It's basically a lack of artistic talent and lack of effective stylization. Western animation has too many "lines" instead of suggesting the anatomy through efficient use of shadows and light

>>6895249

>>6895251

>>6889256
Good shit anon, great taste

>>6894221
>Hanna Barbera and the UPA style
To be fair, those are singular studios, so of course they have a house-style. No one would complain if the 'cal-arts' style was just cartoon-network productions, or just Disney, or just Nickelodeon, but it was everywhere.

I won't comment on the toy advertisements too much, but they're art would be heavily dictated by the toys and the commissioning companies themselves.

>>6889256
castlevania was done in korea and scott pilgrim in japan though

>>6889315
The guns look like toys rather than actual weapons lmao

>>6889315
>>6889060

Huh.. I'm trying to put my finger on it. What is it about this that makes it so unappealing to begin with? I think a big part of it is the character design.
Everyone seems sexless, not too feminine, not too masculine.
Designs are boring
All characters essentially have the same silhouette
Poses are boring
Faces are vaguely concerned or bored, lack of emotion

>>6889060
Draw 50 detailed and beautiful nearly identical drawings

Now draw 50 simple and easy nearly identical drawings

How long did both tasks take? Congratulations, you made 30 seconds of visual information, if not less than 30 seconds, and likely the viewer won't give a fuck about the scene looking good or shit either way, now you know why amination looks like shit