/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6844190
get a comfy desk job. plenty of time to goof off and draw while still getting paid for it.

WFH

>>6844193
I don't want to work at a Call Center though

wait i thought everyone here was a NEET

I'm finishing my last semester of community college and this question hits hard
I'd go back to school but I don't really know any career id care for aside from art (not going to scam schools) and I don't wanna work in a kitchen the rest of my life

>>6844193
i did this and woudl always get yelled at for drawing. like people would be on their phones or goofing off on random sites but me drawing was a huge issue specifically for some reason. like i had no work to do at the time and was doodling and had my manager yell at me about how disrespectful it is, then i said "but X is on her phone all the time" and my manager said "yeah probably for work related stuff"

offices are actually demonic. rn i work at a supplement store part time and its cozy, there are like 3-4 clients a day at most cause most of the store's business is online so im literally just there on standby most of the time so i literally get a solid 2-3 hours of practice in and my boss was cool about it, he told me i can do whatever as long as the shelves are stocked and there are no clients to attend to.

An oil & gas engineer. Or at least something related to Oil and Gas.
As a welder, I only work 2 weeks monthly. The other 2 - 1.5 weeks I spent on art and gym as a hobby since I hate women. Bought my house in 2016 and a car that's rarely use as I just use the train or flights to commute.

Is it possible to make a living on minimum wage? (In the US)

I have no sense of how much money it takes to make a living

>>6844283
>parents tell me that i need to study hard and get a good degree so i dont have to work as much as those uneducated people who do plumbing and welding and stuff
>end up working 60 hour weeks at a soulless corpo and debtslaving for my college loans while tradechads have no debt and work 2 weeks a month and can afford cars and houses

>>6844190
>good career path
Well if you're working to be an artist then that's your "career path" and anything else is to support that.
These are a few paths I've experienced, with the pros and cons:
>art related job
Done this as a graphic designer. The good part is that you're honing your creative/technical skills while working. The bad part is that you're creatively drained by the end of the day/week, and the last thing you want to do is look at Adobe after looking at it 40+ hours a week (unfortunately my gd job called for tons of overtime).
>office job
Related to my graphics job, I was moved to an office where I worked alongside sales people. The pro that most claim is that office jobs are comfy. That could be true in some instances (like remote). But keep in mind that in many instances you'll be in close quarters with the same people for hours. If they're annoying (which 99% of humans are) it will be a living hell.
>retail
My retail experiences haven't been that bad. I worked at a video store (yeah I'm old) and a book store (loved it, saw all the comics & manga come in). If you stock you can get away from other people for a while. And you leave your job when you exit the door. The problem is pay is shit.
>overnight janitor
This is where I’m at now. Chill overnight job in the janitorial arts. It’s not luxurious but it pays enough for the bills. It doesn’t zap my energy, I move around a lot (much healthier than my office jobs), and can even finish my work early and draw in my sketchbook. I deal with a few people, and mostly listen to podcasts and music while I clean.
>other thoughts
Job advice is hard because a lot depends on your situation. What works for me might not work for you. Also a job that is great at one company/location might suck at another. A lot depends on management, coworkers, etc.
Time is your most valuable asset. This guy >>6844283 has the right idea, a job that allows you much time off is a blessing for your real work (art).
godspeed anon

>>6844190
>be me
>draw since I am a kid
>no friends but it’s ok because I like drawing
>doing pretty good at school without really studying
>ffw end of high school
>want to go to art school
>my parents don’t want because "being an artist is not a job"
>go to uni with no conviction
>no time to draw because of stupid lessons to learn
>make no friends there because they see me as a weirdo
>covid and lockdown happen
>become depressed
>parents don’t give a shit even though I told them I couldn’t do it anymore
>teachers don’t give a shit even though I stopped going to classes
>too depressed to draw
>ffw now
>still depressed
>hate school
>haven’t drawn much in 5 years so my art sucks
>be unemployed because of useless degree and shit town
>still no friends
>family sees me as a worthless neet
>find no joy when drawing anymore
>see artists on social media
>they have connections in the industry, art friends and improved their art
>"you know anon if you had insisted more on going to art school 5 years ago we would have let you study there"
>mfw

>>6844325
> you'll be in close quarters with the same people for hours. If they're annoying (which 99% of humans are) it will be a living hell.
Confirmed, just started an office job and the women chatter nonstop.
Also did overnight janitor work. Pretty chill, got to listen to podcasts and music most of the time.
The only downside was the normies would arrive after lunch (when the sun started coming up) and were loud and annoying.
I would've stayed at that job longer if I didn't have to deal with them in the latter half of the shift.
If anyone's going to do overnight cleaning, make sure it's not retail related, or at least check if the hours will overlap with the daywalkers.

>>6844190
use the free time unemployment gives you to try and convert as many people as possible to a marxist ideology hoping that soon you will live in a marxist utopia where you can be forever NEET

many people do it, so it must mean it is the correct move

>>6844338
If it makes you feel any better an art school degree is no guarantee of a good living, and "the industry" sucks (which is why you'll find graduates on YouTube shilling courses etc. to escape it).
The path of artists in the future will likely be to have a normie job while building an audience to support a patreon/YT channel/courses/webcomic/whatever.

>>6844289
I live in texas and minimum wage is $7.25, so no.
2x minimum wage, perhaps. But not alone.

>>6844190
Get a CS degree

>>6844338
I'm you, except I didn't stop grinding for 5 years, yet I'm still a neet living with my parents, with no connections or art friends. Grind, don't grind, you could fail even if you try very hard. (also, it seems like the animation industry is in some kind of a lull)

I'm not giving up though. Neither should you.

>>6844325
Man, your career sounds like it has been disappointing from an outside perspective. From an office job to a janitor sounds like a nightmare to a lot of people. Of course I'm not saying that it is a disappointment since I don't know the full story behind it all, but it's weird to read it out of context like this.

>>6844351
>From an office job to a janitor sounds like a nightmare to a lot of people.
It is what it is. Much of it is a choice. I like a low maintenance life outside of the rat race, and as an introvert enjoy a job where I spend much time alone. But no, I don't want to do this the rest of my life, either.

>>6844354
I don't fully understand, but I wish you the best anon

>>6844348
doing this myself, just dont be a retard that falls for the stupid bootcamp to 6 figures home office job grift and youll be fine

but given ic seems to have more whiners than people who want to put real work into things, they would drop out of a CS degree in the first month

>>6844348
How is being a good Counter Strike player going to help?

>>6844386
AWP flicking and recoil control helps with your lineart and drawing confident strokes

>>6844289
times are tough all around, min wage isn't livable wage anywhere anymore

>>6844289

No, with minimum wage you’re practically in slavery and you might as well dumpster dive for food. And the so called “living wage” in your county/state ($15 - $19 an hour) can’t afford a 1 bedroom if you live in one of the popular cities/metro areas, so it’s living with parents till you’re 45 and balding which is why you should have stayed in school.

>>6844226
Same deal with my experience where they had a no paper policy in one department but I was in a different department and the HR people didn’t enforce it as much. Or rather, I was the only one who took notes turning training and kept it in a massive binder. A record of things that even the so called supervisors forgot how to do. So it became a “rules for thee but not for me” silent treatment by management. So I was allowed to draw on paper and even bring in my ipad and they didn’t give a fuck. Aside from the high school tier gossip the same 3 songs being blasted over my head every day the final year working at that call center was extremely comfy. Mainly because after 6 everyone left and I was the only one in the building in my department up to 9PM and technically nobody was calling.

I don’t know why they kept me between those hours when I didn’t get any calls but that was a massive amount of free time.

>>6844190
assuming you are finishing university, apply to the JET program - you teach in Japan but have anywhere between 90 and 50% of you day just at your desk. Some people are luckier than others, I got a free apartment and company car + all bills paid for, others have had to find an apartment to rent and they are significantly busier, but it's fun regardless. It depends on where you get located, quiet out of the way places tend to be best if you can survive without fast food and want to hang out with japanese people

I'm taking a break from art so I can use my time to study the COMPTIA A+, with my eventual goal to pass the Net+ and Sec+. There's a demand for IT here since where I live there's not a lot of technically proficient people. My advice is to look around and see what it's in demand and think about what people need. People always need water, food, shelter, electricity, plumbing, etc. You can get a CDL and be a truck driver making ~90-100k within a year. There's so many options if you like accounting, computers, the trades, etc. I'd recommend reading Aaron Clarey's "Worthless: The Young Person's Indispensable Guide to Choosing the Right Major."

>>6844369
Thanks anon. Some might call it a cope, but I wouldn't trade my years in "shitty" jobs, it's given me some interesting material for the type of comic stories I'm writing.
I think of someone like the writer Bukowski, who worked shitty menial jobs until he made it in middle age. His work wouldn't have been the same without them.
I also think something is lost when most of our art and entertainment is produced by the professional managerial class (or children of them), and so much media is just inspired by other media—but that's a rant for another day.

>>6844193
you never worked a desk job

>>6844289
Not in the US, no.

You'll be pulling 60-70 her work weeks just to survive, which means you will not have much time for a lot of things including drawing

>>6844190
take the draftt pill nigga
it pays well

>>6844194
This is the answer. You can draw on your lunch break and doodle during short breaks.

>>6844348
I tried this, but I don't have enough time to work on my art and learn to code at the same time. Also, according to my classmate, working as a coder is kind of a pain in the ass, and at least in my country, pay is miserable during the first few years.

>>6844193
good luck getting away with "time theft"

>>6844338
If it makes you feel any better, I got an art degree, from one of the most reputable specialized schools for my industry, and I couldn't find any industry work right out of school (graduated in April).
I didn't really make any good industry connections while there, unless any of my close friends manage to break into the industry before I do, but they're all in the same boat as me rn. This is partly due to being an autist and partly being fucked by covid lockdowns.
And honestly, after getting a taste of the industry through school, I'm so burned out and not sure if I even want to work in the industry anymore.
So now I'm just working a bullshit part-time delivery job and honing my art skills in my free time, hoping I can eventually make enough money through commissions and freelance work to do that full-time as a career.

>>6844563
>americans put their shoes on next to their bed

>>6844303
You and your onions parents are dumb but have a goy paper

>>6844338
Imagine obeying your parents without thinking if they are right. Do you have no soul?

>>6844838
Your parents built you up out of nothing, the maker is the owner, it is your duty to obey. If you do not have at least a bit of gratitude or guilt then the soulless here is you. Its not as easy as telling your parents to fuck themselves if you have a conscience.

>>6844805
we like to leave them on when fucking your mom

>>6844796
what school, anon? Was it Calarts?

>>6844338
parents are masters of subtle manipulation and gaslighting, and like you say, when you catch onto it they will pretend like they never said anything negative about your dreams at all and it was all in your head.

Here's your costly lesson: never trust anyone to know where they are going, much less their opinion of where you should be going. People you've trusted your whole life will lead you to a dead end and leave you there without taking any responsibility.

Nothing cozy about desk jobs. If anything, it's worse, because people expect you to be ambitious and to want to "move up" and shiet. And if you say that you have other priorities, that you want to draw or have any other hobby outside of the wagecucking, they immediately blacklist you and just treat you like shit. Maybe not fire you, but treat you badly so you'll leave/quit. Never in an obvious way, but insiduously: giving you the hardest/most time-consuming work, giving vague instructions, micromanaging you specifically, magnifying your mistakes/errors while treating those of others as the minor errors that they are.

Trust me, normalfags are absolutely repulsed by the idea that anyone can have hobbies outside of work, ESPECIALLY in job environments that are considered "professional", which many (but not all) desk jobs are. The people there are abhorrent and soulless, true NPCs. I make friends with the people considered "under" my position because they're more chill: they see the job as a paycheck, unlike my peers who are so mindfucked they make the job (that will replace them the moment they are no longer useful) their life, their object of devotion, their hobby. Assholes who stay beyond 5pm and go to the office on weekends, which by extension makes me look bad (I refuse to stay late unless I really need to, and never go on weekends).

I just want to draw, and this Jewified society legitimately goes out of the way to make it difficult.

The amount of times I'm at a useless bullshit meeting and I get that sideye from management for doodling on the margins of the paper... Don't fucking do it.

>>6845084
I wish I could just work in a bookstore cafe by the seashore, enjoying the ocean breeze and nutmeg coffee, reading and painting the scenery in my off time.

Why are there no more simple jobs?

>>6845084
>Assholes who stay beyond 5pm and go to the office on weekends
Why? Elaborate, I'll never understand those people

>>6844190
well, I'm a carpenter/construction worker and yet again waiting when will i be laid off, again, but luckily i live in a country with free welfare so even if I'm jobless, i wont be homeless, and don't really be losing my savings for months or even years if i play my cars right, and with all that free time, what i will inevitably have, what is a better way to waste it all than playing vidya, watching anime and starting the fucking loomis heads yet all over again

so my proposal for career path is to born in a country with good welfare, and picking a profession that fucking sucks when life sucks in national scale

>>6845212
what country is this?

>>6845172
they get good wagie points for putting in extra effort

>>6845222
pretty sure any off the Scandinavian ones will do

>>6845040
No. DigiPen.

>>6845172
They get good goy points. Since they make their jobs their life, what they crave is being promoted: being "useful" to basedciety. It's their validation: doing "good" at their job is what brings them contentment.

>>6844805
I distinctly remember 'Arry Potter not taking off his shoes when jumping on a Hogwarts bed

>>6844796
>And honestly, after getting a taste of the industry through school, I'm so burned out and not sure if I even want to work in the industry anymore.
Thanks for your honesty, anon. Wish more were honest about "the industry." I get the impression many pros put on a good face about their industry (probably for networking/hiring purposes), but it doesn't take a lot to read between the lines.

>>6845092
>Why are there no more simple jobs?
Capitalism, unironically (don't @ me, I'm not a fucking commie). Companies aren't incentivized to pay people a living wage for simple jobs.
That said, I've known people who have made it work: Spouse also worked, lived with parents, got lucky with low rent, got a windfall of savings, etc.
But yeah, society doesn't make it easy.

>>6845354
Yeah. Many of my professors liked to gas us up and tell us to "know our worth", etc., and some seemed to think the industry is slowly improving in that regard, but at the end of the day, you only have so much leverage as an individual to insist on a better work-life balance because there's soooo many people who desperately want to do what we do and are willing to work themselves to the bone for chump change.
There's also the fact that art is just so much more time-consuming than other jobs, by its nature, and non-artists just don't fully grasp that, leading to a mismatch between what people expect to be fair compensation and the amount of work we actually put in.

>>6844190
Anything with less work hours and more time for yourself. Security guard, desk, mcdonalds. A bad career-specific gig will ruin you.

>>6845461
Do I need a college degree to be a security guard? How can I get a desk job with no degree?

>>6845465
Menial, low engagement jobs don't require a degree. Security may require a permit if you're planning on working in a bank or something.
In short, look at job postings and you'll likely be able to get a picture for your country/locale.

>>6844190
>what is a good career path to follow while working my way to being a professional artist?

>being professional artist
>having another career
There is no "other" option. If you want to be a professional artist - you have to start an art-career from now on.
Any other job will be sucking life and time out of you and you don't want that.
You don't need to work on any other job if you want to be an artist.

I studied random thing i didn't want in university and i hated working in the office. I always just wanted to be an artist. It was 2005 and i was sitting in the office and seeing my friends online drawing stuff and having fun and it felt so terrible.

One day i just left my job and told my parents:

1) I will be an artist-i always wante to be one
2) It will take me 2 years to get to the level that pays money
3) Until that i will be living with you

Funny enough-i got some very simple job during my first year of learning. It was some book a book about accounting where I drew shitty caricatures about life in the office.
My parents were impressed.

>>6844338
>>"you know anon if you had insisted more on going to art school 5 years ago we would have let you study there"
>>mfw
You clearly didn't insist hard enough and your parents didn't believe in you.
But it's never old for artists. Even if you are 70 years olf you have some time.

HOWEVER i perfectly don't understand that being an artist is not for everybody - it's a tough path.
Even people that "really want to be an artist" don't really mean it.
I'm the only person who has an art career now (i'm 38 i have Patreon work on a catoon show and with video games, i'm being paid and having different passive incomes). None of my art friends of the 00s became an artist.
Even those that were way better than me.

But damn...it' was a hell of a ride. It felt so good. Happiest time of my life was when i was trying to be an artist sitting in my childhood room and talking to my art-friends online.

>>6845796
>HOWEVER i perfectly don't understand
*I perfectly understand
lol

>>6844190
If you just need a paycheck and you don’t care about having a real future with the work, restaurants are your best bet. There’s always a job for someone with no experience and you can make insane money waiting tables at an expensive place.

>>6844226
Holy shit same. Supplement store and everything kek. Working the whole day today so gonna get a solid 3 hours of drawing practice in lmfao. WAGMI bro.

>>6845084
Holy shit I could've wrote this post myself. At one company I worked for a manager yelled at me during a meeting for looking out the window while he was talking to a guy from a different department about an issue that had nothing to do with me. Whenever the manager was around he wanted everyone's attention on him at all times and none of my coworkers thought it was weird. I was so happy the day I quit.
Why are normies like this?

>>6845822
lol I work as a cook and the pay is good but the hours and work suck dick + barely any time to draw
I wouldnt delve too deep in the restaurant pipeline

>>6845084
this. overnight janitor sound great compared to "office politics" of fat German dykes sucking up to Mr Sheckelstein while shaming you for not being a brainless slave who only exists to serve whomever has the most power like she does.

>>6845222
Germany
>>6845356
>Companies aren't incentivized to pay people a living wage for simple jobs.
because 10 million people come in every year to flood the labor supply including skilled labor supply which keeps wages down and worker liquidity (replacability) high.

>>6844190
work at michels so you can get discount and steal supplies from them.

>>6846829
You should work at a school to steal some textbooks and learn proper English.

>>6845796
what do you think is the proper skill baseline to break into the industry? how did you know you were ready?

>>6844190
WFH qa tester

>>6844338
Kill them all. I mean it.

>>6844190
if you live in muttistan you can get free food every month from the government

Depends on what type of art that you are going into. If it’s graphic arts, check about internships locally. Some places pay their interns but some don’t. If you’re near a university town, check with the local art museums and even the state colleges. Check out any want ads that are asking for someone to help with an art program. You can sometimes find these type jobs. If you have any education above graduating high school, and you have a clean background, teachers are always needing a substitute teacher for when they need to miss work.

>>6846940
no you can’t

>>6846969
yea you can its called food stamps and it is offered to people with no jobs or those in poverty

>>6846976
Back when I made 9$ an hr I was denied food stamps bc they said I made too much money.

>>6846802
They only give those jobs to sex offenders and literal retards.
Besides, you cant actually support yourself with something like that, bc it pays minimum wage so you have to get a second job or work longer hrs which defeats the point OP was asking OP in the first god d place.

>>6845796
HOLY ESL BATMAN

>>6847037
overnight janitor here (about to report for duty).
don't fit either of those categories (I can be a retard sometimes, but not a LITERAL ONE). And it pays more than minimum wage.
I do have a wife who works too, though, so not a single income household.

>>6844190
If you can drive, pass a background check & keep up banter with coworkers: Ramp agent at a mid-sized airport. You'll get ground down to a fine paste during holiday season, but outside peak there's plenty of dead time... also you get ripped. Try to work for an airline not a ground handler if you can, more benefits.

>>6844190
If you're in the US, Firefighter.
>work 24hrs get 48hrs off
>get paid to workout
>get pension so retirement is also an option, one rarely afforded to artists

>>6849934
wait, what's the catch? This sounds like heaven.

>>6849950
you never know when 9/11 part 2 is coming out

nanny
>draw when kid is napping
>arts and crafts
>workout when kid is awake
>read art books to the kid
if you're an autist it's probably a bad fit but if you're not it can be very chill depending on the kid and parents

>>6849952
Going out in a blaze of fire is a noble and manly death

>>6844196
You asked he answered
And mine is great

is anyone here speaking from experience or just giving OP their hypothesis of a good job?

>>6850078
>>6849302
I did work as a ramp rat at one point, I'm going back to engraving though... which is also pretty good.

>>6849999
quads of stoicism speaks go die in a fire op

>>6844226
tfw got a comfy desk job in accounting. the few days i spend at the office I'm in an atrium building for half the day doing whatever i want. so long as i do my job by the end of the day, i can do what i want, go where I want for as long as i want. i have this job for 5 years, and i hope I'll have it for 5 years more

>>6849934
lol this sounds based as fuck and if i die i get a park bench in my name

>>6851158
Is accounting boring and/or soul-sucking? Or is it an intriguing thing?

What are the best remote jobs I can get? I have a degree but I was retarded and got it in graphic design and illustration. I used to do security graveyard shifts. I honestly didn't mind it because I was onsite at a parking lot and all I did was sleep and smoke weed on my shift, but the managers kept lowering my wage without informing me, so I had to quit after the third time they did it. This was Allied Security. How do temp agencies work? Do you just give them a CV and they find work for you?

>>6850078
I work as a middle-manager in a 2-days at the office hybrid scheme. No overtime with decent pay, it's pretty good.

>>6852174
Even Spirit of Halloween and basic retail jobs haven't been getting back to me.

>try to get a CS degree
>due to personal problems, strikes, political protests and the pandemic, I have been attending university for more than 10 years
>close to finally get that stupid piece of paper
>barely know how to code
>kind of hate CS, deep down
>+30 yo
Well, I guess I'm fucked up.

>>6852299
I'm scared of this happening to me anon

>>6852482
I'm not good at giving advice, but for what it's worth, I think these were my mistakes:
>I stuck with what they taught in class instead of researching on my own
>I didn't create any personal projects for my portfolio
>I didn't look for an entry-level job to learn the basics (yes, these jobs suck and treat you like a slave, but they give you experience)
>I started making money with my art and put all my eggs in one basket
If I stop drawing, I won't have money to feed my family and pay for doctors for my mother. However, if I spend all my time drawing, I can't work on any CS-related projects. I know there are people who can make time for drawing and programming with no problem, but I am not one of those people.
On the other hand, as an artist, I am very bad at dealing with clients. I rarely fight for a decent payment and many times I accept projects that I know will give me problems in the future. Remember: your clients are NOT your friends; you shouldn't care about their feelings.

Good luck, anon.

>>6844190
Said it in the other thread but that is what the animation industry is. It's a bunch of artists who convince big corps to pay them to dick around and draw all day.

You don't have to be good to get in, just chill. Most animators use toon boom and are moving complex puppets not drawing. Juniors are allowed to be shit at art. Beg skill level is good enough and you will be making a normal wage to hang out with artists and draw all day.


For illustrators you wanna do stuff like bg design and prop design. You won't get to do character design so stop trying. They will let you do cleanup and turnarounds though. Every show needs so god damn many artists it's insane. Many shows are total shit but you still get paid.


Yeah there is forced downtime between jobs but most countries let you go on decent unemployment, work on your comic or whatever while you look for the next gig.

>>6852799
>animation career
if its as simple as you're describing i should just look for a job in that department

>>6852799
my dream is to be a prop designer, unironically

>>6846288
>At one company I worked for a manager yelled at me during a meeting for looking out the window while he was talking to a guy from a different department about an issue that had nothing to do with me
How do you avoid snapping at those kinds of people? Holy fuck

>>6853148
Go for it. Advice I've been given about it so far is to make sure you draw in very different styles (copy some popular tv shows styles down to the brushes and colours. Just mention it's not official work.) And to do batches of about 10. Most people starting out will be told, "draw 10 paintbrushes I'll pick the one that is best". And then they pop back and either approve one or tell you to do more and change direction.

Have some cool stuff, magic book, cool device, weapon etc. But make sure to do some studies of official ones first to really see how they do it. How simple stuff is, how they tend to draw things etc. And then after some studies make your own versions. I recommend finding some online portfolios and just devouring them. See what people tend to do and follow suit.

Lots of obvious advice but do it and you'll get a job where you draw. And if you decide to, can be a whole career path up the ladder.

>>6844193
3rd shift gas station. There's lots of down time where you can practice art for hours and still get paid

>>6853772
Meant 4 >>6844190

>>6852799
>been trying unsuccessfully to to get in to animation industry for nearly 10 years.
...bruz

>>6853677
Good advice, anon. I will practice that 10 variations exercise

Studio jobs for artists have pretty much dried up this year.
A few years ago there were interviews and such, now there's typically no answer to applications.
It's a horrible time to break in as an artist.

I pivoted to make my dream project instead.

>>6854038
Pyw. I'll give genuine opinions and advice. Also this isn't supposed to be disheartening but it is very important to know people in the industry, to go to events and to network.

You need the skill level and to pass the vibe check.

I work for a public art gallery. It's not a demanding job. I sit at the reception, greet visitors, answer the phone, process transactions, provide light security, do tours of the galleries, and engage with visitors. I'm surrounded by art all day and it's pretty cosy.

>>6844193
So you're getting paid to do what exactly? Exactly. Enjoy an unfufilling existence.

>>6844194
Some people need the structure society offers.

>>6844283
My dads a phd Oil and Gas Engineer. I'm the black sheep artist son : )

>>6844497
Wish I did this instead of Israel. Way less fun.
I made it to the 3rd stage of the interview and got basically talked out of moving to Osaka. Did you do it? I'm curious.

>>6844838
>>6844844

The problem is when your parents are stable, good, hard working, intelligent, straight edge good people with ethics despite the nuerorticism. On paper and in my heart, I love them. As people,I tolerate them and vice versa. I am the NEET scumbag who never draws with nice parents.

It's hard and it takes time, but people can reach a compromise and find a system that works. Capitalism fails at the home level, but communism works. Everybody should do the chore they autistically like most.

I've been fired from Dunkin Donuts, Painting with a Twist, Physical Therapy assistant, Grocery Store, almost every job because honestly once they realize you're a nice looking white guy just working a menial position to boost morale, they either respect the self imposed sadomasichism or just rely on the hate they already had for you going in. Either way, it's a learning experience.

what if i just went to an art school to build a portfolio and find a job with an animation studio

>>6854658
I am thinking if I have to get another job it would be that one.

>>6854530
nta but this is a career path i want
here's something quick i did i week ago i like

>>6855129
and something i started yesterday i dont think ill finish

>>6855131
There is a reason western animators don't do hand drawn animation. There is also a reason why they use stuff like toon boom and rigs. It makes animating take a hell of a lot less skill.

First thing dude. Pirate toon boom or buy it. Adobe animate too. Next get some pre made models of characters that are famous and not overly complicated. Then either follow tutorials or do an online course. Try to make sure you show the 12 principles of animation.

Read 'Your career in animation' even just a pdf online of relevant chapters.

If you do draw in the mean time try to improve. Don't just draw to draw. Study.

When you have 10 mins of good characters talking and interacting you can ask an industry professional to tell you which bits to keep and what to cut from your 1-2 min reel.

Also, look at what you've done and ask what it's actual purpose was. If you don't have a good answer you need to make sure your next one does

>>6854986
They're pretty competitive because every art nerd in a 30 mile radius will be gunning for it, but in my experience the interviewers were really looking for somebody with customer service skills. They didn't ask me a single art-related question lol, I prepped on art history for hours for nothing (but I am still expected to know information about every piece in the gallery and be able to provide tours)

A job like this is just a stepping stone to bigger stuff though, so it's a good in between if you're interested in embedding yourself in the art sphere longterm. It will absolutely open up gateways and allow you to make connections with other artists, curators and collectors too.

>>6855237
Are you going the fine art route?

>>6855260
I think so. I've done digital for years, got semi-popular at one point with with a 50k+ follower account, but digital is extremely hard to build a career off of unless you're willing to commit 100%. You often get minimal returns for maximum effort, and I was physically breaking my body at my desk trying to maintain a consistent output, plus there's the other drawbacks of not having time for cooking, socialising, or exercise when you're sitting at a desk all day.

Fine art provides a good outlet for creativity whilst also allowing you to create something tangible. I love digital but I could never escape this thought that if, for whatever reason, every electrical on the planet suddenly died it would be like I never created anything at all.

>>6855266
Can I see some of your stuff? Curious what direction you are going. Lots I've been seeing winning awards and selling to gallerys arent bothering with detail anymore.

>>6854530
Fuck it, nothing to lose: 2d digital attempting to diversify in to 3d. Thought about learning 2d rigging at one point but I could never get the harmony crack to work + I'm too poor for a creative cloud license. Probably applied to 70-80 companies over the last 2 months, nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZdDNpTD8fk

>>6855581
Alright couple things. First off it's decent just all over the place.

Mixing the 2d and 3d together into the same reel doesn't work. Just make 2. They have fuck all time when looking at reels and if a 2d studio starts to see irrelevant work they might just stop watching. You don't want to give them a reason to stop.

Decent stuff and good variety. Biggest thing sticking out though is that because you aren't using the workflow and style of stuff like harmony it casts doubt as to if you could use it if hired.

Not only would some solid toon boom stuff look really clean and professional, it also lets them know they don't have to teach you it from scratch. I know you are saying it's too pricy but there are alternatives. Try the crack again on a different machine, use a friend's set up, ask a college about using theirs etc.

Also make sure you are applying to junior roles, clean up positions and internships. Applying for name roles will just disappoint you.

Final note, about toon boom again, how are you going to complete the test if you don't have the program?

Keep at it. 2 months isn't all that much, I assume you just graduated? Try focus on networking and make yourself a challenge of trying to do some solid scenes with some pre rigged characters.

>>6855681
Thanks for taking a look over it, appreciate the advice.

I think your correct about the networking, I hate social media but I need to just hold my nose and start posting stuff outside linkedin.

Maybe toon boom is the secret ingredient I've been missing but I recently upgraded my pc and I'm thinking about going down the Maya/Blender root now my machine isn't bottlenecking the process. I'm gonna be tied up til January now, with non-animated, full time work so I'll just have evenings and weekends to learn. I'm thinking I'll have to pick one or the other and start applying again in the new year. What do you reckon the right approach is?

>>6855229
wow, i didnt realize so many shows used puppet rigs lol. that seems a lot easier than hand-animating. i have some sfm skills so maybe that'll transfer.
what really kickstarted this all for me was watching primal and the BTS for it. i'd love to be part of a production like that

>>6844226
>my manager yell at me about how disrespectful it is, then i said "but X is on her phone all the time" and my manager said "yeah probably for work related stuff"
I specifically bought a phone that comes with a stylus and pressure levels for this reason. Also Samsung phones have CSP (but you have to pay monthly). Normies are dumb and will freak out if they see you drawing with pen and paper, but when they see me using my phone with a stylus they don't notice it. It's like the same thing basically as playing games on a phone vs bringing a Steamdeck go work. I've been doing this for two years and have only had one dude call me out because he was a nosy prick and literally bent over me to look at my phone screen. You gotta try not to stick out

>>6844563
>I think of someone like the writer Bukowski, who worked shitty menial jobs until he made it in middle age. His work wouldn't have been the same without them.
I totally agree with this and the part about all our media now being made by rich kids from San Francisco, but man when I get home and draw the last thing I really want to think about is my shitty warehouse job

>>6849950
It's a gigachad job and if you're not a chad you're gonna get filtered hard

>>6855879
>>6849934
>tfw 5'5
>most firefighters I see are 6 above
Its joever before it begins....

>>6855792
There are specific high budget passion projects that don't use puppet rigs, movies too. But if a show looks well animated and not the very obvious Rick and Morty, captain fall style show it's a puppet rig.

It just costs too much to animate the good stuff here so they have the Philippines or Korea animate it where there money can go further.

I hope you get to work on some badass shit though

>>6855722
Honestly you are really close. Commit to one fully and you will get in. As to which one to pick, I'd go with where more jobs are. Just until you get your foot in the door at least. If there are more 3d studios nearby that need 3d artists then go 3d. Otherwise just with whatever skill you are closer to "good" with. GMI

>>6855831
I want one so bad, I bought a refurbished one but the pen was having issues and I returned it.

>>6844341
Stupid lazy retard.

>>6844470
>min wage isn't livable wage anywhere anymore
I live in France and below minimum wage, it's tough but livable. Although, nobody seems to understand how I manage to do this.
The best job I had was being an art teacher for kids and elderly people. Doesn't pay much but you're paid to learn the basics and you have plenty of time to draw.

>>6857129
I work part time min wage and am surviving. Still go out drinking and have fun. Just have to not be a retard with the little money I do have. Was a redpill when I realised how fucking awful the average person is with money.

€1000 P/m Dublin

>>6857558
I cannot survive on $8 or whatever the min wage is in Florida. They really are trying to turn my state into billionaires only.

>>6845796
I find myself in a similar situation.
But unlike 2 years, I don't trust myself enough, so I told my parents that it would be 3 years (the time it would take me to finish university).
I started in March of this year and being 24 years old I currently feel that I made the best choice in my life, my parents support me and since I have savings so I don't need to work.

The only thing that bothers me (or makes me sad) is going to Pixiv or Twitter and seeing people much younger than me with incredible works, it makes me think that no matter how hard I try I will never be in my "prime" and although I have noticed a certain improvement in what I do is still not enough for myself and my friends have given me a maximum of 7 when showing my work.

Any advice you can give me?

>>6844289
In my town ($10.10/hr), absolutely not, unless you have like three roommates and live in a shitty ghetto neighborhood

>>6857558
>€1000 P/m
I assume that isn't "per month"
Also, many cities are borderline unaffordable if you're making min wage. Just because you live in a low cost area doesn't mean everyone else does

>>6855831
>nosy prick and literally bent over to look at sscreen
Why the fuck are these """"""""""""""people"""""""""""" like this?

>>6849950
You need to know someone to get in

>>6857889
It is per month yeah.

I live in the city. My rent for a 2 bed is 1475/m not including bills which I pay on top. Split it with my gf and a roommate. If I even just worked 40 hours a week still at min wage I'd be rolling in dough. If you can't survive on it you are just bad with money.

>>6857589
lol nowhere nice in the US is gonna be good and cheap (unless you move to bumblefuck nowhere)
remember NIMBY

>>6858039
to be a firefighter?

>>6852163
depends what you're doing honestly, there are so many things one can do. i worked on two accounting positions. one was based around creating custom invoices for customers, and it was soul sucking shit while being dependent on account managers too much. i left that position even if it paid better because i had to work extra hours due to their incompetence. I now do some data entry and analysis shit, and 50% of it requires careful analysis and understanding the customer's autistic accounts which is a bit more engaging. I'm also more independent and don't suffer due to the laziness of others.

>>6852299
>get a shitty CS degree
>waste 4 years at uni for nothing
>learn basically nothing and barely scrape by
>frankenstein a stupid website together from code I picked off the internet
>get a job as a QA tester for 2 years and quit
>get a random job in finance and roll with it because it's low effort shit
>decide to randomly start drawing at 30 years old
lmao what the fuck am I doing with my life. what am I gonna do when I'm 40 and get fired for being a slow brained boomer?

>>6845796
>2 years

You guys are fucking insane, I feel like I'm inside a pocket dimension when I read these kind of things. How the fuck can someone get a job in 2 years? I can't imagine taking less than 5 years to get to a decent level.

On the one hand being a pro artist sounds comfortable but on the other having studied life through drawing, the variety of human life, whichever may be possible to live.
Idyllic cosmic life or even an early death, even a normal life but all with the eyes of an artist. I wonder if i decided to become an artist just to keep the chaos of life away, only good at art, or maybe the variety of human life could be good at much more.
It feels like being at the crossroads in both the mind anticipates regret, before its too late ,

perhaps explains why i've been edging for hours lately

>>6854871
>My dads a phd Oil and Gas Engineer. I'm the black sheep artist son : )
You've got all the resources and daddy's gibs. If my dad was that rich (he's a poor farmer), I think I might go even further than being a welder. Now I could bring my parents along with me for holidays and sponsor their wishes. But he usually prefer me to spend time with them together instead. I guess when you're at this age, time is very precious.

>>6854939
>what if i just went to an art school to build a portfolio and find a job with an animation studio
you need a strong connection for this one. don't spend your time at the college painting but get the business cards or internship from big names. Make sure you stand out without having to kiss his ass.

>>6853772
a lot of night shift stuff is great for drawing, but working night shift fucks some people up. Good luck drawing when you lost cognition of time and you're never sleeping right for months but can't quit. Been there done that, took forever to recover

>>6854939
US Art Schools cost too much. Otherwise, go for it

>>6855229
>Read 'Your career in animation' even just a pdf online of relevant chapters.
from David Levy?

>>6844338
This is most artists' story.
And this is everyone's parents. They will forget every pressure they applied on you overnight, even if they screamed and raged and threw your shit around for days, weeks, months and years. Suddenly every decision you took since you were a babe is entirely your fault as if you had had no parents at all. So act accordingly. When your parent is acting like the world is ending and blaming you or telling you something is bad, think that in 2 years it will never have happened for them. Just nod and agree, then keep doing what YOU want.
Your biggest enemy is your self-doubt, self-blame and overall guilt. You know all of those are your own inventions. Yeah, you're shit at drawing. Everyone is. The ones that draw really well simply enjoy doing it and it simply shows in what they drew.

>>6857035
Sorry about late response, just wanted to say thanks again for all the advice

>>6857032
you sound like you speak from experience. how did you end up getting down that path?

>>6844338
I didn't go to art school but I did go to design school. Got fucked over by covid right after graduating, went jobless neet for almost a solid year, bounced around part time jobs (totally unrelated to my degree) for the next year and now been a neet since then. I don't blame covid too much, rather I blame my school for not getting us better connections or even really trying to at all. Sometimes I think back and wonder if I really should've done that degree at all. I could've been an electrician earning fat stacks or a construction worker building houses for 6 figures a year just to hammer nails. Regardless I'm stuck like this, and you don't have to be.

>>6844289
midwest here. you need to make at least 20$ an hour to live, not super comfortably, but you won't be in pure survival mode either. 40-45 hours at 20$ is cool. Housing is hard to find though. This is all multiplied by whatever x the closer you get to either coast.

Does anyone have any advice from recovering from the work day?

I have the time to draw but after work I'm just too unwilling to do anything. I feel like I need to mentally recover but no matter how long I relax, I never feel recover.

>>6862052
energy drinks and weed maybe

>>6861962
thanks for the clearcut answer, anon. I assume it's double for california / new york?

>>6849950
burning buildings can be super toxic. all my uncles were firefighters and they ended up with major health issues by 40.also these days firefighters basically get treated as a stopgap for other ems so you end up doing a lot more drug overdose and grandma fell over calls at all hours instead of the stuff that's supposed to be your job

>>6862052
It's dumb but just draw for 5 minutes, like copy a piece or a pose and only work on it for 5 minutes

By the time the 5 minutes are up you'll want to keep drawing

Also if you are working on a bigger piece leave something unfinished for you to finish the next day, you'll want to finish it and after you'll keep working
Starting is always the hardest part

will any job support a comfortable life for me and my gf without withering away for some corporation

Work for an airline, try and do part time, decent pay and depending on the airline you can trade your shifts with other employees to make you're own schedule, plus free flights to get you wherever you need to go for your art career

>>6849950
There is no catch except long-term safety/cancer/etc. Anyways fulltime firefighter positions are extremely competitive because they are so sought after and cushy

>>6844190
1st step you have to be extremely honest about whether what you are drawing is actually a viable path. it has to actually be monetizable.

so for example, if you are a white dude, you are not going to make a living drawing graphic novels because you will never get them published, ever. in fact, most parts of the art industry are like this now. good luck getting your fine art in galleries, good luck getting a children's book published if you are white male. you have to be able to go fully independent, direct to client to be able to make a living and not live in moms basement forever.

the most painful part is people will think i'm joking about the above or overstating it when it couldn't be more important of a consideration. you cannot put other people in control of your path. you can't give a bunch of jews a red button that, if they push it, your art career is over.

once you have actually identified a viable, realistic option (which is the hardest part), you can get a job in the meantime. i have worked shitty minimum wage jobs and also comfy work from home jobs. i work the latter now, but it's actually far preferable to be working at mcdonalds or some shit for 2 core reasons. one is it's more motivating because of how much of a hell it is, and the second is that you are so bored during the job that you have this pent up creative energy which you release as soon as you get home or whatever.

the problem is that you're some scrub working at mcdonalds, so if your art "career" is some impossible bullshit you will be in trouble. that's why it's so important that you identify a good path, so you can make a bad decision (working dead end job) in the present for future benefit

aslo, watch this. it still applies to all forms of art, not just concept art. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Al7QAS89s

>>6862052
the actual answer is to wake up 4 hours early before work and use them to draw, but no one is willing to do it, and ignore it whenever i tell them.

>>6865335
>if you are a white dude, you are not going to make a living drawing graphic novels because you will never get them published, ever.
you have to be legit /pol/tarded (or just retarded) to believe this. lol

>>6865342
those guys are 30 years senior than you, fucktard. if they were starting out now they wouldn't get a single page published. you are fucking delusional and haven't been paying attention to your surroundings and are going to be slaughtered like cattle.

there are comic authors 10x more talented than you (think alan moore) that will never get a mainstream release again because they're white. let alone your unproven ass with your derivative anime-inspired dogshit trying to start out now. jews will choose blacks and women over you, every time.

don't say you weren't warned. also, i piss on democracy egalitarianism and womens rights. i am far right extremist because i see reality.

>>6865349
>those guys are 30 years senior than you, fucktard.
lol no they're not.
>if they were starting out now they wouldn't get a single page published.
that's not what you said. anyway, there's also Daniel Warren Johnson, Tradd Moore, James Harren, etc. all young artists.
>there are comic authors 10x more talented than you (think alan moore)
ok
>your derivative anime-inspired dogshit
I don't draw anime.
If you make this many stupid assumptions about a stranger on the internet it explains your other stupid assumptions.
>don't say you weren't warned.
thanks, I didn't know about woke culture & affirmative action until some /pol/tard "red-pilled" me.
>i am far right extremist because i see reality.
thanks for stating the obvious. the only reality extreme left-tards and right-tards prove is that they both need to touch grass, immediately.

>>6862762
Yeah this is pretty much what I like to do. If I can force myself to boot up my computer, open clip studio paint, and doodle something after work, it's easy for me to get into it for hours on end.

>>6844190
>my day will come soon
I hope anon, the economy looks like it's the shittiest it's ever been in a very, very, stupidly long ass fucking time god fucking damn it

>>6865349
take your pills schizo and stop talking nonsense you're obviously a deeply deranged and unstable person. keep your mental illnesses to yourself.

>>6865337
Oh cool, I do this! But only for an hour and 30 minutes.

>>6845084
Public schools must be demolish

>>6844190
It's far from perfect, but I work at an amazon facility, and it's a solid "stay here until I find something better" job.
>will hire any autistic retard (like me) on the spot, no interview required
>don't have to communicate with people frequently if you know what you're doing
>work is boring and repetitive, but easy most of the time
>good benefits, good enough pay if you live somewhere cheap like I do
>can arrive late or leave early with no consequences if I have enough PTO to make up the time difference
>my managers are cool as hell and let me wear one earbud while I work
>can work 3 12-hour days, or 4 10-hour days a week if you're a full time employee
>sometimes I'm too tired to draw after work and go straight to sleep, but having more days off makes up for it
It's honestly not bad. I've worked in retail and fast food before, and I'd take this job over them any day. You definitely won't be able to draw while on the clock though.

>>6865335
>>6865349
can you cite anything to prove this or are you just finding things yo blane for an unsuccessful career?

>>6865337
only zoomers can operate on 4 hours of sleep

>>6865335
>>6865349
Are you telling me I can't become a mangaka in America? I knew it... learning Japanese is the right move, isn't it?

>>6844190
21 y/o.
Living with parents
Post office mail handler atm. Simple work, but also simple hrs. 4hrs per shift atm. Even when my schedule paper is posted, it fully blank aside from 1 day, so still on call atm.
>Got a 20k, parent plus student loan to pay, and 1.5k CC debt.
>So I just tore up my Physical cards, and removed all subscriptions for YT, spotify ect.
>Only real bill I do have is a 50$/month 1gb internet bill.
Considering doing firefighting as the second job >>6849934 my own brother is a volunteer there rn. And also considering doing the airport job that >>6863823 mentioned.

Aside from that,
>I plan on doing getting a HVAC, wielding, or Plumbing trade
>Move out by 25 or 26
>Move to Sweden or Denmark (or any scandinavian country + Germany, learning swedish for a month now).
>And live there.
>Planning on going to college over there too.

>>6865753
>it's a solid "stay here until I find something better" job.
Be careful with those, anon.

>>6845212
unfathomably based.
Month 6 of waiting for Bürgergeld (reached a point can't pay rent anymore), surely it won't be much longer.
Might have to become a desk job drone for a bit, if the offer I received goes through.
If there wasn't all this lingering uncertainty, it would be chill.

>>6857808
NTA: Immediately stop doing the things that bother you or give you anxiety? There's always going to be Chinese kids who excel at anything we do. I find it humorous if anything, not depressing. These people are on vastly different paths from your own, so the comparison isn't really fair.
Twitter is especially devious because of the unpredictability of what the feed might shove in your face next. I'd avoid it or use it as a write-only platform, meaning you only use it to submit stuff to build your profile/followership. Doomscrolling is the enemy.
Being on /ic/ doesn't help much either, it should only be a fun time-waster at the end of a day and nothing more. Be alert to falling into content traps and make it a habit to regularly disconnect so you are forced to spend time on your own.
Compare yourself only to yourself and improve your work little by little with focused studying. If you keep up the honest grind, you are sure to improve. Most importantly work on stuff you are genuinely interested in, makes things easier and it'll feel like a reward after doing your fundies chores. I say this because it might feel tempting to jump onto various social media bandwagons such as following the last (meme) trends or doing fanart which you may be "somewhat" interested in but not fully devoted. Even if done well, they might end up feeling soulless to yourself.

>>6860127
>You've got all the resources and daddy's gibs. If my dad was that rich (he's a poor farmer), I think I might go even further than being a welder. Now I could bring my parents along with me for holidays and sponsor their wishes. But he usually prefer me to spend time with them together instead. I guess when you're at this age, time is very precious.

Anon, I feel for for you.

My dad ultimately is a pretty awesome guy who never forfeits how he really thinks or feels or bends to the will of any other, with the exception of his wife. He really reminds me of Gendo Ikari more than anyone, except, he's a real person and claims to be unlike most scientists.

My battle is an emotional one, while yours is no less precious. Much obliged, Anon, I hope you make it.

>guess when you're at this age

fwiw im 31, brother is 27 and my dad just turned 60, mom 55. We all live together. Times weird.

>>6844491
what's the next chapter of that story? Did you manage to make good use of all that spare time? Where are you at now?

>>6857997
drones with no will of their own

>>6844190
5 years ago I would've recommended software engineering. But now? lmao. Good luck to all the new CS grads.

>>6860059
WDHMBT?

>>6868614
In this situation now. Neeting for half my life, started drawing like 3 years ago, still far from being marketable but the only thing I really enjoy doing.

Figured it's too risky to just all in, and get something that pays well, good work life balance and work from home so I can keep focusing on art.
Actually signed up for university to study CS just to have "something" solid.
And now looking at the future, AI is not only going to make art careers a lot harder but also programming careers, and I surely dont have passion for programming at all.

Maybe some of the jobs you guys listed is the way. I don't want to do anything but art, yet it's so hard to make it a career that is safe and enjoyable.

>>6868975
this is me (minus NEET get a job lol)
we'll find a way anon

What remote IT job is good to go in to that won't get made irrelevant by AI? Cyber security? Are there any entry level jobs that involve working with AI that don't require a masters in Artificial Intelligence and computer science or engineering?

>>6854871
>black sheep
>I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain."

>>6844635
ai is taking those jobs

>>6873122
itll be a dark day when we let ai automate our floor plans

>>6844194
what's a good/decent wfh job? I've looked into it a few times and most things seem to be internet survey bullshit

>>6875826
AI generated cities are my new nightmare, thanks

>>6873122
Considering how China and some places skimp out on materials
>Do you really want an "AI" optimizing layouts and expect them to be built as planed

>>6876073
Onlyfans

>>6866573
He also means that you go to bed earlier. Nobody wants to hear it, but the only way you can have time where you're fully energized to devote to your work is the morning. Being exhausted after work will never change, how you plan around that can.

>>6866573
Most zoomers are too old for that now, what you are thinking of are high schoolers, who can go to bed at 4am and get up at 7 and be fine, and they were all born in 2010 or so.

>>6875826
>>6844635
not even AI, but 90% of construction is made by retarded developers who build copypaste housing

>>6873122
this would make a trippy fps level.