/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Some western / indie publishers of Manga:

Saturday AM ( https://www.saturday-am.com/ )
> Digital indie magazine, seems to be on the up-and-up
> Open submissions for long-form series; also distributes series currently being published elsewhere.
> Regularly publishes one-shots, making it a good potential outlet for already-finished work.

Noir Caesar ( https://www.noircaesar.com/ )
> Focuses on black (specifically African-American) content, but seems willing to publish anyone good enough.
> Seemingly series-based only.
> No "magazine" style updates; series are updated on their own schedule.
> Seems less regular than Saturday AM, but also seems larger in terms of readership.

Oni Press ( https://onipress.com/ )
> Technically indie, but at this point large enough by comic standards to be mentioned in the same breath as other publishers.

Antarctic Press ( https://antarctic-press.myshopify.com/ )
> Longtime large-indie publisher of OEL / manga-esque books.
> Seemingly taking submissions at present if http://www.antarctic-press.com/html/submissions.php is anything to go on.

Yen Press ( https://yenpress.com/ )
> Started out as a small indie publisher of original / Korean material, and has grown reasonably popular since.
> As of 2016, it is also one of the western arms of the Kadokawa Corporation, with Kadokawa owning a 51% stake.
> Editorial inquiries can apparently be sent to yenpress@yenpress.com, however, they apparently are not open to new submissions at this time.

Viz Media / Viz Originals ( https://www.viz.com/originals )
> *The* western manga publisher.
> Currently in the exploratory stages of setting up an English label.
> Submissions are open and several books have been announced. However, progress on the label seems to be moving very slowly.
> Still might be worth a shot anyway.

Shrine Comics ( https://shrinecomics.com/ )
> Small indie manga publisher
> Seemingly attempting to make the transition to physical volumes
> Allows crossposting to other sites

Other open comic publishers:

Dark Horse ( https://www.darkhorse.com )
>Dark Horse still welcomes your submissions, and all submissions will still be reviewed, just as they always have been.
>All unsolicited story/series proposals must have a full creative team on board. Writer-only proposals will not be reviewed.

Image comics ( https://imagecomics.com/ )
>Image Comics only publishes creator-owned material. They do not contract creators; they’re only interested in publishing original content for which you would retain all rights.
>Image Comics publishes creator-owned/creator-generated properties and THEY DON’T PAY PAGE RATES. Image takes a small flat fee off the books published, and it will be the responsibility of the creators to determine the division of the remaining pay between their creative team members.

Drawn and quarterly ( https://drawnandquarterly.com/ )
>Please email a low resolution PDF with at least 20 pages of comics and cover letter to submissions. Do not send dropbox links, scripts, or proposals. Please read our submissions FAQ.

Fantagraphics ( https://www.fantagraphics.com/ )
>submission page: https://www.fantagraphics.com/pages/faq

Top Shelf Productions ( https://www.topshelfcomix.com/ )
>Regarding submissions, we're easy. Just email us a download link of what you'd like us to review. NOTE: We cannot accept cover letters, plot synopses, or scripts unless they are accompanied by a minimum of 10-20 completed pages (i.e., fully inked and lettered comic book pages).

Additional publisher lists:
> https://jasonthibault.com/definitive-list-comic-publisher-submission-guidelines/
> https://writingtipsoasis.com/best-independent-comic-book-publishers/

Current Contests:

Kyoto internationals Creator Awards:
https://medibang.com/contest/kyoto-manga2023/

Zenon Magazine:
https://comic-zenon.com/article/entry/2023/05/09/132801

Silent Manga Audition: https://www.manga-audition.com/sma19-overflowing-tears-silent-manga-audition/

Magic international manga contest: https://www.shibuya-productions.com/en/magic/magic-international-manga-contest.html,73

4-koma Contest:
https://kitakyushu-mangataisho.com/en/

/mmg/'s very own anon-led anthology: /ic/onography
https://discord.gg/QYnFBves7V
https://forms.gle/d3a2Cwwd44sJYyqv9

Additional community added Resources:
Mangafonts: https://mangafonts.carrd.co/
Hiro Mashima YT: https://www.youtube.com/@mashimaCh/videos

How (You) can help /mmg/:

> Know about a contest or a publishing opportunity? TAG THE OP and post a link.
> Have a new resource? TAG THE OP and link / mention it for inclusion.
> Have a link / DL for a mentioned resource? TAG THE OP and mention what you're supplying a link for.
> SCREENSHOT / PASTEBIN effortposts that help you for posterity.

Does anyone have advice on hand lettering traditional comics?

I've recently read some classic 80s and 90s Shonen Jump titles like Fist Of The North Star, Space Adventure Cobra, Dr. Slump, early Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin, Slam Dunk, Yu-Gi-Oh! and I was really impressed with their refined visuals, recognisable art styles, and individuality. Sometimes they might look simple, but memorable, with a rough edge to it.

Imagine my despair when I looked at modern Jump and saw how painfully generic almost everything look and read. Some of the most boring, lifeless, stock Naruto/Bleach-lite I've ever seen paired with bland and tropey character designs and types. Most of the stuff over there look indistinguishable from what the big 3 enstabilished regarding what makes a battle shonen. The same repetitive formulas, storytelling beats and derivative art styles in place of anything ambitious or unique. Think I'm just going to stick with a few select seinen magazines when it comes to stuff published after 2010.

How do you write a story for a short comic, 8 to 20 pages specifically? I've got several outlines that would work as oneshots, but since I'm a /beg/let I want to practice with a shorter project before commiting to more.
Haven't checked the OP suggested book yet, would they be a good starting point?

>>6803407
Yeah: don't. It's more time and effort than it's worth and it's too easy to screw up.

>>6803462
Comparing the all-time GOATs from a period spanning decades to just what's running right now is not a fair comparison. Most of everything is boring and lifeless mediocrity, including most manga from the eras of the classic Jump manga. They were massively successful in their BECAUSE they were so clearly a cut above the rest.

>>6803491
There's no easy "how to". You're going to have to engage your brain and get creative. The best starting point is to first try, then compare your attempt to successful examples (such as award winners from now-pro mangaka) and try again with what you learn from the comparison.

>>6803515
>You're going to have to engage your brain and get creative. The best starting point is to first try, then compare your attempt to successful examples
Not unexpected. I presume the first few attempts don't matter as much more than practice in art and storytelling.

>>6803526
>I presume the first few attempts don't matter as much more than practice in art and storytelling.
Correct, but you shouldn't treat them as such. You generally do want to be trying your hardest to make something as good as possible, just don't get stuck revising over and over.

>>6803549
Will do. Thanks, anon!

I can't stand drawing without anti-aliasing. It feels like I don't have enough room to draw but when I go to a bigger page size it feels like I have too much room.

Anyone know Manga Plus Creators vertical scroll dimensions? Their only dimensions listed seem to be for manga pages and 2500 pixel width for vertical scroll width seems huge

Would using LINE's dimensions work?

How do I get solid fills with these markers

>>6803515
>It's more time and effort than it's worth
>it's too easy to screw up
Isn't that part of the fun of trad comics?
>>6804277
Looks like cheap pigment. It's going to blur no matter what, I would get the 6-set of the Winsor and Newton cool greys for ~$20, I have the same set and the pigment bends together well for solid fills

Best way to improve both the illustration quality itself as well as actual comic making skills?
Something I could do is spending 3+ years just doing the most simplistic scripts possible as an excuse to show cool drawings, sequences, and dynamic panel layout, then develop writing skills much later, but other suggestions are accepted.

>>6804392
Just do lots of one shots and concept work. Eg expression sheets and environment drawings(if you aren't going the 3d trace over route)

It'll force you to do both.

Lets say you got a one shot idea for some prince dude fighting an evil monster to save the princess. You could script it out crudely. Then design the prince in a few 3/4 poses and an action pose or two. Then some faces and expressions.

Repeat this for the monster and the princess. Then maybe do a couple drawings or even paintings of the castle exterior and interior with some call out props to practice those too.

Once its done do your one shot.

>keep planning and writing ideas just to postpone drawing
fuck...

>>6804783
Find a thriller you like and condense it into 30 pages.

some thing im starting 4 funsies.
read left to right, like a western comic.

>>6805692

>>6805697
and thats all I have so far

Swords feel tough to draw in perspective. Well, I think the actual issue might be curved swords. It's not too hard to get straight swords looking somewhat correct, with references, but stuff like katanas feel rough, when you want to make sure it's facing the correct direction. Though I guess in art, you can cheat things a bit.

>>6803040

Why am I rushing?

Guess it's the syndrome of comparing myself to others and how much they accomplished.

I want to put out a 300 page self indulgent work to basically explain my autism...just to get it out my system.

>>6803491
Lajos Egri's Dramatic Writing. It's the foundation for the Hollywood film industry. Robert McKee is good too, but he mostly copied Egri

I'm finally about to reach my checkpoint and i don't know how to post the shitty draft yet, any recomendation since i hear that imgur isn't an option anymore? I will i search by myself later, but if someone has any advice it will be welcome

>>6806259
Catbox it

>>6806259
Imgur still works as an option, Worst case is that it could be deleted in the future, but there are still plenty of old images around.

>>6805938
you write like its your cross to bear. When in reality it is all of us that are burdened. your specific brand of naïve art, and blog posting doesn't come across as someone creating anything remotely interesting or endearing.
More self indulgent garbage created by nobody that no one will read, self harm in silence.

I've been playing around with AI to see how I could implement it into my workflow and honestly it doesn't seem that bad.

>>6806655
bottom looks way better but top looks promising

I'm sorry...but I think this is it for me. I always knew it was gonna turn out like this. I don't have it in me to actually finish a manga/comic

>>6806519
>self harm in silence.

damn

>>6804362
>>Looks like cheap pigment. It's going to blur no matter what, I would get the 6-set of the Winsor and Newton cool greys for ~$20

ordered

and I'll redo that page >>6804277
. i fucked it up

>>6806059
>Lajos Egri's Dramatic Writing
Thank you for the reccs, anon! Never heard of these before.

What age demographics buy and read the most manga?

>>6805894
Curved anything in perspective is going to be tough. I would say just take it slow and be willing to adjust it at points until the whole curve looks fluid.

>>6808504
>In Japan
Middle to lower class
Boys
Ages 10-15

>Outside of Japan
Middle to upper class
Boys
Ages 15-18

>>6808537
I thought adults and all ages read manga in Japan?

Anyone need an Artist for their comic?

>>6808614
I'm not, but if you want to better market yourself, you should post an example 2-3 pages to show what you're capable of. An illustration doesn't convey your skill in comics as much.

>>6808624
Fair

>>6808539
You are correct, that anon's full of crap. He might only be referring to shonen manga though, he'd still be kinda wrong however.

Done, scene 1 out of 3 for chapter One

Confused on where to start. Should I be doing one shots to practice before I try making a long story?

>>6808668
Personally I would, but if that doesn't excite you, start with a longer comic. Putting in the work no matter what form comes first and foremost. However, getting a story done start to finish builds confidence and has a lot of merits as such.

I wanna participate in the Medibang manga contest but I don't really know what Size the page should be, what's a typical page dimension?

>>6808665
best paneling I've seen here in while desu

all digital?

What are some good brushes to use for inking manga? Any decent budget options you recommend?

>>6809193
If you're on Photoshop, you can get the Kyle's Manga brushes for free (assuming you actually purchased a license instead of pirated it). If you're on CSP, there's a million plus 1 manga brushes done by the Japanese, literally just choose one.

>>6808695
>Medibang

Sounds like an orgy, but all the girls are dressed as nurses.

>>6809193
>>6809203
I am talking about traditional brushes for brush and inkwork

>>6808706
Yeah Clip Studio, inking with "Mechanical Pen" + "Real G Pen" and screentone with Line Pattern

>>6803462
Refinement culture

more work in progress, story boarding most of the action sequence, still need to figure out more interesting chase.

>>6808665
>>6809509
these looks really finished, typesetting it?

Are there any mangaka that don't sketch out everything first? I'm tired of doing everything twice so maybe they have some techniques I can learn.

>>6810286
If there was a mangaka out there who didn't sketch anything, that doesn't suddenly, magically mean you could. I understand you're looking for an established prototype, but if you can ask "does someone do X this way?", the answer is almost certainly yes, someone out there does, cos it works for them. The problem is whether it works for you.

Learn to sketch less, and see more. Draftsmanship is a skill all its own, and can be practiced and studied. Its all about being able to put down on paper whats in your mind with as little work as possible, and then being able to form the ephemeral images in your head into something solid. You can do this by studying the proccesses of artists you like, doing timed studies, or just generally making an effort to draw only the bare minimum in your sketches.

This seems helpful so i will leave it here https://hikaku-sitatter.com/en/

>>6810278
Cool planning

>>6810278
I'll type once I finish chapter one or two, also because I haven't made an actual script yet; there's an outline with the general content of the scenes to be drawn, that way I can add/change panels and details on the spot

scanned the inks before I wreck it with watercolors. just in case lol

>>6808614
>Anyone need an Artist for their comic?

Can you draw a beaver?

>>6810286
Robert Crumb and Moebius draw/drew comics straight ink to paper with no underdrawing. Study them.

Can anyone recommend good trad brushes for inking on paper?

>>6810962

>>6810718
Looks great on its own without color

>>6810972
Source: videos of Moebius drawing comics straight ink to page with no underdrawing
https://youtu.be/B6aeQPjThiE?feature=shared

I come from a design background and was always told never to use pure black (like "#000"). Is this ok to do in comics, though?
Like do cape comics and mangaka use pure black or do they use an off-black, too?

>>6811063
Monochrome

>>6811027
lol retard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C464r1lfVo

do mangaka draw larger than the actual published manga or the same size?
like most manga I’ve seen seems to be roughly A5 sized +/-, do they draw on that same paper or do they draw larger and downscale it?

>>6811360
they actually draw smaller and then upscale it

>>6811360
If you are doing digital, however, you should always go larger and downsize as necessary. If you are publishing on various manga sites, they all have weird dimension requirements so resizing is an inevitability. Upscaling when doing digitally can lead to quality loss.

>>6811361
are you trying to trick me again?

>>6811381
C'mon anon do you really think that people here would lie about it? If you were right i would look pretty stupid if the maid costume isn't giving me drawing powers

>>6803350
I've been drawing lines, circles, squares, triangles, and lotus flowers for 54 days straight.
I'm a caveman and practicing the same thing over and over is how I git gud at it.
Can anyone recommend me any manga drawing exercise that I can just repeat over and over? I want to draw cute girls and jerk off to them. Thank you anons. Godspeed.

>>6811063
"Never use pure black" obviously does not apply in monochromatic print where getting a pure black that will not tarnish is the whole point. It's advice for painting and design, not a hard rule for all visual media.

>>6811360
>do mangaka draw larger than the actual published manga or the same size?
Yes.

>>6811497
>exercises
Draw something. Stop wasting your time with warmups.

>>6811506
>Draw something.
how do

>>6803462
Modern day weeb culture is a disease and I have no hope anymore for both the future of japanese animation and what the anime fanbase has been turning into those last 5 years if not even earlier. Back when I was first really getting into anime and consumed lots of stuff ranging from classics, obscure gems and a few (at the time) acclaimed recent ones, so like from 2013 to around 2015, if I met someone with an interest in anime I knew we would instantly have a lot in common. The anime fandom felt like an actual community back then, we were all a bunch of socially awkward nerds who loved to find deeper meaning in shows like Eva and Monster, while still having an appreciation for harmless SoL such as K-on or Azumanga Daioh. Back then I felt as if I was truly part of something special.

Now when I strike up a conversation with younger/newer fans, it just feels different. It seems as if the new generation of anime fans is really immature, fixating on the same shallow nu-gen mainstream shounen, gobbling all the poor quality seasonal slop there is and over sexualizing literally everything. Maybe I’m growing up, but I honestly just can’t stand the community anymore and I try my best to dissociate myself and my art from it. The fixation on lolis and other just immature and stupid memes, what anitubers have become, "weeb culture", it all just annoys the fuck out of me now to the point I've become extremely picky about japanese media in general made after 2010.

Any good evading reference? I think of something like hajime no ippo with a lot of blows and a lot of dodging but i haven't read it so i can find the exact page were that happen
So if anybody knows an scene like that or that scene i would be thankful

>>6811360
https://medibangpaint.com/en/use/2021/11/mangatutorialforbeginners07/

>>6812091
in hindsight maybe I wasn’t clear, but I was asking about actual literal paper, as in drawing traditionally

>>6812092
B4 is an actual nip paper size. look up deleter manga paper on amazon

>>6812094
no, I mean when they draw traditionally on paper, is the paper the same size as the print or do they draw larger and downscale for print
I am not asking about digital

>>6812097
Oh my god i never thought that i could fine an specimen more retarded that i'm

>>6812097
Anon...

>>6812097
Have you ever SEEN an actual physical manga? They're tiny. Of course they draw larger than the print size.

>>6812112
>more retarded that i'm
dunno about that

>>6812112
more retarded than you’re what?

>>6810718
here's the coloring.
big mistake not using proper watercolor paper, even tough I bought some.

>>6810997
thank you so much kind anon, means a lot.

>>6812466
>>6810718
is she supposed to be gigantic?
she’s like 3m tall in the last panel, but no taller than the beggar in the first

>>6812487
maybe the kings supposed to be a manlet

>>6812487
The king Is kneeling, buy yeah it's not clear

>>6812657
I got that, but the king is proportional to the guy in the back (assuming kneeling on his knees, which the soldier clearly is while being the same size as the king, and the king not having legs extending into the picture plane), while the woman is an absolute unit

>>6812657
note the guy kneeling in the back and the king being equivalent in size and their proportions to the woman

>>6812487
no, I wasn't aware I had fucked up the proportions so much.
damn I'm really depressed now
>>6812744
yes he should be kneeling on his knees and it's not right, but the biggest issues are the peasants in the background.

>>6812757
I mean, it does make a more striking scene than pic related, giving her a larger than life quality with the halo and honestly most people probably wouldn’t notice anyway

>>>/vg/442616538
Artificial Academy 2 General /aa2g/ #1289
Butt Stacking Edition

Welcome, this general is for the discussion of ILLUSION's Artificial Academy 2.

COPY ERROR MESSAGES WITH CTRL+C, PASTE THEM WITH CTRL+V INTO GOOGLE TRANSLATE. JUST CLICK THE WINDOW AND PRESS CTRL + C, IT WORKS.

>Downloads:
/aa2g/ Pre-Installed Game, AA2Mini: https://tsukiyo.me/AAA/AA2MiniPPX.xml
AAUnlimited updates: https://github.com/aa2g/AA2Unlimited/releases

>Information:
AA2Mini Install Guide:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vS8Ap6CrmSNXRsKG9jsIMqHYuHM3Cfs5qE5nX6iIgfzLlcWnmiwzmOrp27ytEMX03lFNRR7U5UXJalA/pub
General FAQ:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200216045726/https://pastebin.com/bhrA6iGx
AAU Guide and Resources (Modules, Tans, Props, Poses, and More):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17qb1X0oOdMKU4OIDp8AfFdLtl5y_4jeOOQfPQ2F-PKQ/edit#gid=0

>Character Cards [Database], now with a list of every NonOC in the megas:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1niC6g-Xd2a2yaY98NBFdAXnURi4ly2-lKty69rkQbJ0/edit#gid=2085826690
https://db.bepis.moe/aa2/

>Mods & More:
Mods for AAU/AA2Mini (ppx format, the mediafire has everything):
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/vwrmdohus4vhh/Mods
/aa2g/ Modding Reference Guide (Slot lists for Hair/Clothes/Faces, List Guides, and More):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gwmoVpKuSuF0PtEPLEB17eK_dexPaKU106ShZEpBLhg/edit#gid=1751233129
Booru: https://aau.booru.org

>HELP! I have a Nvidia card and my game crashes on startup!
Try the dgVoodoo option in the new win10fix settings.
Alternative: Update your AAU and see if it happens again. If so, disable win10fix, enable wined3d and software vertex processing.
>HELP! Required Windows 11 update broke things!
winkey+R -> ms-settings:developers -> Terminal=Windows Console Host

Previous Thread:
>>441051309

>>6812765

Is it not recommended to hold the pen like this when you're inking? I tend to hold it like this but the majority of videos I've watched the manga-ka hold the pen like they are writing

>>6812466
Saved, this shit is beautiful

>>6812757
Given the halo, it gives her a larger than life appearance, like >>6812762 was saying. It works.

moving to the next page

>>6812487
King looks like a dwarf to be honest

Is my laptop dying or the new updates of clip studio are making it work harder because optimization issues? Iwas used to crashing from time to time, but before i update it to 2.0 didn't happen a lot

>>6803350
Manga doesn't even sell that much compared to western fiction books of thriller, mystery, romance, etc.

>>6813414
Yeah?
What about it?

>>6813431
I was just surprised. I thought people were moving towards manga. Or is that only compared to western comics?

>>6813451
People who post in places you visit on the internet are moving towards manga. That shouldn't come as a surprise: most nerds nowadays are into anime in some capacity, even if they're ultimately only deriving influences from it to work on nonanime / manga projects. It's why so much modern stuff is "anime esque", with some mix of western cartooning.

The normie barely even knows what an anime is, and if you tried to tell them they'd say "oh, so it's like a comic book? With superheros and stuff?"

>>6813460
Ah I see what you're saying.
>even if they're ultimately only deriving influences from it to work on nonanime / manga projects. It's why so much modern stuff is "anime esque", with some mix of western cartooning.
Even people like Brandon Sanderson or Glen Cook love anime/manga, and it bleeds into their fantasy.

>>6813414
yeah no shit something that would be embarrassing to be seen with in public for the vast majority of adults sells less than something that makes you be perceived as better than the average person
I am continuously fucking amazed at the intellectual capacity of this board

>>6813499
>yeah no shit something that would be embarrassing to be seen with in public for the vast majority of adults sells less than something that makes you be perceived as better than the average person
Since when were you smart for reading Harry Potter, Stephen King, and Agatha Christie? You are delusional. Plus there's nearly no stigma around "graphic novels" now.

>>6812816
watch Manben asap. dude just use and draw how you feel most conformable
>>6812932
>>6812997
thank you kings, appreciate it!

>>6813414
you think Oda thought about this?
just draw and don't think about such things(if you love drawing)
if you love money, yeah go do Mistery lol

>>6813568
manga aren’t graphic novels, you dumb nigger, and yes, you are 100% going to be perceived as more intelligent for reading steven king than literally any manga ever made, this is not even remotely debatable, you are severely delusional

>>6813576
>you are 100% going to be perceived as more intelligent for reading steven king than literally any manga ever made
You sound insecure. No one thinks Stephen King is for anything but retards.
>this is not even remotely debatable
Why? I read manga in bars all the time and no one gives a shit. You can even find normie girls repost Junji Ito art on Twitter or Instgram. It's normalised now.

>>6813568
It doesn’t matter what the book is, reading a text will automatically make you look more mature and developed that reading a picture book.
>>6813592
lel the irony

>>6813594
>It doesn’t matter what the book is, reading a text will automatically make you look more mature and developed that reading a picture book.
Where the fuck do you live?

>>6813599
You genuinely sound autistic and I’m not going to reply further.

>>6813601
You're the one who feels ashamed of reading manga in public. Even basic bitch Insta hoes post themselves reading manga in public.

You guys are just insecure. I even asked friends what their experience was.

>some ethot living on gibs from roneryfags mimics nerd culture
>this means nerd culture is more respected than literature
you go out wearing ahegao print shirts too, retard?

>>6813615
>ahegao print shirts
Except it's now hoes who get ahegao tattoos... you seem like a shut in. White women love anime. This is just ONE tattoo shop in my city. I have many more screenshots of anime tattoos just from my city alone.

literal autism
go draw

>>6813649
>infinite worlds tattoo
if it’s so normalised and respected, why do you need a “safe space for nerd anime tattoos”?

>>6813672
Here's a random tattoo parlour from my city.
Get over the fact anime is normie shit now.

Are there certain tropes, genres or elements that could come off as "too western" in an alienating way to japanese audiences, just like plenty of anime tropes are alienating to average western audiences and some genres like mecha or mahou shoujo aren't popular in the west? Been reading some articles and forum threads regarding why some series like Sonic or Trigun were never popular in japan and I'd like see if I can get more in-depth answers regarding my doubts.

>>6813739
you will not be popular in japan, period
especially not trying to appeal to japanese popular taste while competing with hundreds to thousands of actual japanese people who understand the culture and sensibilities better than you ever will

>>6813608
Yes, but are YOU an social media thot who can get away with doing it?

>/ic/ falls for the "inane off-topic """discussion"""" bait yet again

>>6813754
Can I get big in weeb communities that know even less about Japanese culture than I do? Do people only care about art quality, or is it more frequency and a good story?

>>6814075
Good story trumps everything. EVERYTHING. Nobody cares if a manga is drawn well if there is no reason to care about the characters or the world, whereas normally fatal drawing mistakes will be forgiven if the reader wants to know what happens next.

>>6814075
you’re coming at it completely wrong, you are thinking about marketing a product when the product in question is both highly unlikely to succeed and has a low profit potential in the first place on top of being a monstrous resource investor, stop thinking about being a famous mangaka (which you will never ever be, btw) and think about the comic you want to make

>>6814106
wrong, the story is more or less in line with art, you’re thinking of appeal
most successful manga, comics and literature are not good stories, but they succeed because they appeal to an audience
>but that’s the same thing
50 shades of grey and the twilight saga are neither written well nor are good stories, they are popular because the story appeals to a lot of people, I doubt you will argue otherwise
stylistic appeal in manga also goes a long way, bleach is a shit tier shounen, but the character (and fashion) design makes it stand out above the sea of similar manga
very, very few manga actual have good stories

ugh..

>>6814278

>>6813754
How did Kamen America get popular in Japan?

Should mangaka, cartoonists, animators, and other illustrators who work mainly in line, learn to render and paint in full tonal values? Will learning lighting make our flat-colored lineart more dramatic and authentic? Or is it largely a waste of time?

>>6814425
1. Yes, knowing lighting will help make your comic look more dramatic. You need only look at even a single fucking manga (or tv show, or movie, really just any visual media) in your life to know this. Very few manga are purely linework -- most employ the use of screentones. Even of those that don't, most use hatching to achieve tone. Comic work that relies purely on line with no attempt at tone are very very few in number.
2. "Authenticity" should play no role in your decision making here.

Dumb timewasting-question-asker. Even dumber timewasting-question-answerer.

>>6814434
There’s a difference between flat tones and full rendered edges, anon. Does painting really help with screen tones?

>>6814438
>There’s a difference between flat tones and full rendered edges, anon
The difference is marginal. You ignored my answer to simply ask the same question again. Yes, knowing lighting will make your comic look more dramatic. Any tonal work typically involves employing knowledge of lighting. This goes for comics or painting. There's overlap.

>>6814463
so it's really not possible to make dramatic screentone compositions in manga, without being able to paint a figure from life? There's really no way to shortcut this?

>>6814470
What is up with this leap in logic?
No, you don't need to be able to accurately paint a figure from life to draw a comic though it might help.
What you actually need is 1. a pair of eyeballs and 2. access to a vast library of manga.
You're posting here so I can assume you have eyeballs and you have access to the internet and with it access to a vast library of manga. Go read some, and if you're paying attention you might notice that 99% of the time there's either no lighting or only very simple 1, maybe 2 tone lighting, achieved through any combination of tone or hatching. And there's absolutely nothing stopping you from doing a bit of monkey-see-monkey-do and just... copying what manga does. Not copying what you IMAGINE manga does, but actually LOOKING at manga with your eyes and replicating what's actually on the page. I don't mean trace or copy them 1:1, but apply what they do to what you're doing. This is how they learned.

Anyway, no, there are no shortcuts. Every road is a long one. It will take time to be able to do what they do, simple as it seems, just as it would take time to learn to paint from life.

>>6814470
I may be assuming things but I feel like you have the same mentality I once had where I tried to find a way to draw faster and with less effort, so I would try to find 'shortcuts' like copious use of paint bucket or line-only work. Well, there is no shortcut. The more you understand about lighting, rendering, and shape language, the better your stuff will look. With more skills you will even be able to simplify more effectively and still have it look decent if you want to save time. If you start with the mentality of saving time without acquiring the skills first your stuff is going to look bad.

Love any critiques. OG

>>6814527
Copy

where can find something like a rough of an actual manga, something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADpwP5OuN_w

but for a whole chapter.

>>6808504
12-20 and 20-30 are the biggest demographics, so basically teenagers and people in their twenties

Older people combined are also sizeable

Gender split should be about 2:1 males to females

>>6814584
Source?
Also women absolutely buy/read a lot of manga. There's no way male readers outnumber female readers 2:1, unless you're talking purely about male focuses (seinen/shounen & geezer manga)

>>6813601
I would rather be autistic than terrified of liking things in public, like you. You're worse than autistic. You're an NPC.

>>6814564
Rob a mangaka

Some authors post WIP on twitter, full chapters are impossible

>>6814379
omfg, I tried tracing this as practice and it looks way better than what I've been drawing on my own. Proving once and for all that my brush isn't bad, its my forms. Its still wonky but I fully expected the lines to look completely different. Now I have to live with knowing that my anatomy is shit.

>>6814528
Next time take a ruler and measure out your composition so it doesn't get cut off, otherwise it's a nice copy

WIP

>>6814859
Finally started, I remember when you were posting that Splash Page of the kitchen.

>>6814859
Anon, I gotta ask, having followed your comic all this time, is this gonna be a hentai? Or is it just a manga with copious amounts of ecchi?

>>6814682
Kamome Shirahama is in the top 1% of artists in the world, anon. Just take your time and keep practicing your figure drawing

>>6814131
>(which you will never ever be, btw)
I'm already a published writer. I just want to move to visual media because I thought there was more outreach.

>>6815526
ywnbj

>>6814861
Right? Taken me long enough, in my defence I illustrated a failed wargame kickstarter in the interim.
>>6814866
Yeah they are gonna fuck, although I hate in hentais with stories when you have to slog through copius amount of exposition to get to the good bits. So I might have a page number to skip to if your all horned up and don't care about the dumb Australian failing through Paris.

>>6815805
>paris
so it’s a blacked thing?

>>6814528
I'll be honest, and this isn't really critique
But aside from some obvious fuckups I'm sure you're aware of, like Johnny's fucky face or the accidental cutoff of the whole page, I actually like your version more in a lot of ways. Particularly Gyro's slimmer face.
Your forms are pretty shaky, but I know how hard it can be keeping everything straight when you're trying to copy things. Like the other anon said, measuring is your friend.

>>6814827
>>6816208
thanks boys, using a ruler to be more exact with the next few pages i do, thanks for letting me know im on the right trck to improving

>>6813608
>jungi ito
>remina
it's literally his worse work ever. what a dumb bitch. At least the E-thots/e-goths get random shit from Uzumaki and Tomie tattooed.

>3months behind my self imposed deadline
>only 5 panels and typesetting left...
>...just to post the first half of the draft

Ganbare mirai no watashi

>>6816518
I actually liked Remina. The one with the lady who's arms were rulers(?), or the one where the murderer's guilty conscience kept haunting that family until he finally got put to death, were not as good comparatively.

Fine faggots. I'll get a drawing tablet and show you you're all wrong.

>>6814859
She's too hot to be an Australian. Our women look like this.

>>6816518
>it's literally his worse work ever
>IM SO OBJECTIVE YOU WONT BELIVE ME
>WAIT A MINUTE JUST LET ME OBJECT ALL OVER THE SCREEN!!!

Should I quit learning Japanese and just focus on writing and drawing comics? I don't care about publishing in Japan, but I'm afraid there's no opportunity to make a living with writing and drawing comics here in the West

>>6817262
lmao
nigga
the average mangaka is paid like $40 per page, and they pay the assistants out of their own pocket
there’s royalties and all that if you really make it but lmao imagine thinking busting your ass to publish weekly only to make as much as a cashier at a grocery

dumping another 2 pages

>>6817370

>>6817071
Not him but I've met like 1 abbo in my life.

>>6817370
>>6817372
Good fucking shit anon. I don't even needed to tell you this for you to keep going. I just wanted to let you know

>>6817372
Panelling and flow is so much better compared to cramming so much into a page, please keep on going anon.

>>6817372
Looks very interesring

>>6817644
>Panelling and flow is so much better compared to cramming so much into a page
thanks, I'll try to lean into that more since i usually cram in 8 panels or so

>>6813042

>>6817473
>like 1
That's because you like in the suburbs, retard. Go into any major city.

>>6817970
Akshully I'm rural. I steer clear of cities and the cunts therewithin.

The medibang contest ends in 2 days, I had 3 months to work on it and I haven’t drawn anything.
I hate myself so much bros…

>>6818727
That's ok anon, I also didn't draw anything for it. But that's because I wanted a month-long break after finishing the last thing I worked on.
I'm regretting that month-long break now though, I feel very rusty.

>>6818727
It could be worse, you could have hit the ledge and get down like i'm, at this time i thought that i would have finish the 1st chapter and i would have enought time to do a full name entry for the medibang contest and this is all i have now

I started reading blue lock this week, and i wonder how hard it would be to reproduce this type of line

>>6819484
Fuck wrong image but is mostly the lines that the artist do in the outline of the face

anons what figure drawing book should I use

>>6819699
pyw so I can accurately prescribe your medication

>>6819699
Nobody tell him
>>6820048
NO ANON, NO

>>6820462
>>6820462
>>6820462

>>6820468
Fuck off AI can you stop dramafagging here please?

>>6820473
stop replying, retard, he’s shitposting here because nobody in the other thread was retarded enough to give him attention

>>6820473
what part of that makes you think i'm dramafagging? you people are so lost it's getting pretty sad.

this is a 6 page manga made with AI:
https://twitter.com/nobisiro_2023/status/1693595088360989058?s=20

related:
https://twitter.com/nobisiro_2023/status/1695753798759899363
https://note.com/nobisiro_2023/n/n9f881464332c

>>6820475
I know, but I still had to call him a faggot. Btw I think he is the one who samefag with stupid questions everytime to run up the post limit

>>6819256
Thank you anon. Hope you’ll get back on track soon. Perhaps this month break was necessary, sometimes it’s good to start drawing again with a fresh mind. Although I understand the struggle.
>>6819368
Feelsbadman. Hope you can make it to the next medibang contest. Are you making the sketches on paper and the inking digitally? That’s an interesting technique.

Sorry for venting but I still feel very disappointed in myself. Should’ve managed my time better. Every time I miss a deadline, it makes me want to quit manga.

>>6820479
only parts are AI, and it looks utter trash sorry bro, nothing will beat hand drawn, ever ever ever. Now go back to drawing and stop looking for shortcuts or excuses you disgust me *spits*

>>6820479
>10-12 hours work time for 6 pages of simplistic manga even when half of this is plain copy&paste
>still requires significant human input

not like this AI sis

>>6821036
Not an AIfag but 6 finished pages in 12 hours is quite fast.

>>6821036
Where does the fucking time go? When I work on a page, 2 hours fly by but there are only 5 or 6 drawings on it. Each drawing I could do in maybe 15 minutes they're it even that good.

>>6820739
>only parts are AI
???
if you mean he made the panels, bubbles and effects, yeah.
but everything else is AI. the drawings are FULLY AI generated and he even says that's it's easier this way.
(I do agree that prompt only leads to easier results, becase trying to use your own input is a bit more finnicky to work with. that doesn't necessarily mean this will be the way to go though. but again, in this case: fully AI.)

>>6821130
Kek imagine thinking we care

>>6821130
other than AI he used these tools in CSP:

>for tone
filter>effect>artistic (last row to 4-5)
layer>convert to lines and tones

>for lines
i'm not exactly sure this is what he used but i think it's just simple turning it to B&W
layer property window > turn to monochrome
alternatively
new correction layer > binarization
except he made a thick and thin version and used parts of each.
filter>correction>remove dust

pic related is me trying to do it like this. although the base here wasn't necessarily a well fit since it had a painterly style.

Fuck off pajeet.Talk about soulless.

what do you guys think?? these are some of the pages from a comic im working on.. would anybody be interested to see how this turns out?

>>6821380

>>6821381

>>6821382

>>6821383

>>6821386

..these are not in a chronological order... my question is, should i invest so much time and effort into something? to set aside a few months and focus on creating this comic?

>>6821390
last one.. cheers

>>6821386
literally the only pic that looks anything like a comic page, rest are doodles

>>6821380
Your work looks interesting, but none of the pages look finished, as >>6821518 was saying. I also don't understand why everything is drawn as though you're looking at a film negative, is this intentional for purposes of the comic? Do they live in some bizarro-dark world or something?

>>6821397
I honestly really dig your style. The lines seem carefully drawn to achieve a minimalistic yet very detailed piece. The white lines on black canvas sort of make it very intimate, I don’t know how to put it into words. I’d love to read more of your stuff.

Are there any mangaka that have a very rough or sketchy style? Most of the industry seems to only use clean linework and not much shadowing beyond crosshatching or inking.

>>6821991
Q Hayashida, Hiroaki Samura, Tsutomu Nihei (Blame! only), Matsumoto Jiro, Fukumoto Nobuyuki and Isayama Hajime (lol), Boichi does a good job at depicting roughness and power, although his work is really precise and I wouldn't call it sketchy.

>>6821846
Thank you. Means a lot

>>6821518
The final 'pages' were born from individual pieces that got modified and thrown together as best as possible, there was no grid made beforehand to position panels, so the final product looks a bit loose. There are sections where some more visual explanation shouldve been inserted for the understanding of the reader but I miscalculated how much effort comicmaking takes..

I get the unfinished comment a lot but honestly I still dont know exactly what is meant by it..

Do flashback that shows characters that aren't introduced yet or scenes that haven't been show yet, are supposed to be just silhouettes or just darkened?

>>6822711
Your choice.
Making them silhouettes can add a lot of stylistic flair, but it naturally draws the eye to them and can ruin some compositions - giant black blobs of ink have a tendency to stand out. Some people decide to do a third option and have that character be drawn in a different, more expressionistic style

Ideally, you wouldn't do either, and could deliver all the information you wanted to through clever framing. Hell. You might not even HAVE to hide them a lot of the time.

>>6822711
If you're talking about murder mysteries and the like where the killer is a black blob, I think it's supposed to be a stand-in rather than a representation of the character themself.
Usually in those scenes the stand-in is more mannequin-like, and their silhouette doesn't match the one of the actual character, so it's more of a "hole" in the reconstruction of the scene from the point of view of the character(s) having the flashback.
If that's not what you're referring to then idk sorry

>>6822711
"Supposed to"? Man they're "supposed to" be whatever you intend them to be. If you want an important character to show up in a flashback before anybody would know who they are, you can do that.

>>6821991
Digital work tends to lose the roughness and expression of hand drawing. You can always look at japanese rookies, amateurs, and hobby doujinshika if you want to see some less-mainstream techniques and styles

>>6819484
>reproduce this type of line

Just draw it, what's the problem? You see what it looks like right there.

>Draw slightly larger than A4 size
>Every single scanner larger than A4 on the market is fuck you price, even used
Do I really have to stitch every single page together

>>6823723
Google the paper size and then printer.

>>6823723
Digitally resize it, dummy.

>>6824088
Huh? I think the problem they're having is that they can't scan each physical page in one go and have to do multiple scans per page because each page can't fit on most of the A4 scanners
How does resizing it help?

>>6823723
Plustek has some (relatively) cheap A3-sized scanners, I have no idea if they're any good though
there's also the REALLY cheap overhead "scanners"
I was able to get an epson ds-50k at discount recently, which was still a bit of a fuck you price, but it's a good minimalist USB scanner and probably the cheapest there is for the big brands

>>6803350
Just realised manga are still really good resources for any artist. I don't learn as much about angles, lighting, proportions, perspective, framing, etc., in studies nor art books

Tips for the side view mouth and expressions

>>6825406
There are no tips
Study from artists.

I like making comics, but posting them online to share with others feels like a whole other beast. Wish I was better at marketing.
I've been posting on multiple sites, trying to engage with other comic creators on the site or on Discord (usually met with no response, most just want fans not connections), posting wips/promoting on social media, etc.
Fuck it's tiring. I spend more time on marketing than I do with my comic some days. I think I'm just going to pick one site where the comic performs best and delete my comic from the others.
What do you anons do?

>>6825427
post comic, odds are it sucks ass and there’s no point “promoting” it

>>6825459
By that logic the original One Punch Man webcomic should never have gone anywhere. Why do you have to be like this, anon? The point is to support one another here.

>>6825804
the opm webcomic is better than the manga, I don’t know what you’re getting at
nobody’s going to waste time talking about marketing to some deluded retard with a shit comic

>>6825811
then show us your work anon so we can see if you're just a deluded socially inept retard lowering the quality of this thread.

>>6826134
>how do I promote comic??
>refuses to show comic
>gets butthurt
every time

https://imgur.com/a/8mBVaOs
took forever but i finished the intro to my webcomic, i hope its alright

>>6826179
>404

>>6826179
Looks great screentone anon! How long did it take you in total?
>>6826186
Rimgo mirrors work
https://rimgo.totaldarkness.net/a/8mBVaOs

>>6826250
a month and a half if you include the cover :( im rly slow i need to get faster
>>6826186
didnt know it would 404 i dont use imgur much sorry

>>6826186
https://imgur.com/a/gLzGSXK
hopefully this works now that i made an account

>>6826325
forgot to mention also i uploaded a wip of the title page for chapter 1 it should be at the end of the album but it doesnt show that way for whatever reason

>>6826140
you're just going to say "don't promote it, its crap, kill yourself". You're not throwing out divine testaments with this "pyw" crap, you're spamming and being unhelpful. Which is fine, there's no rule saying you have to be a helpful, good poster on 4chan. But have the awareness to shut up at least.

Take the Storyboard-Artist-pill, anons.
>No laborious drawing / inking process
>Tell stories quickly and efficiently, let the studio clean up your work.
>Good salary, a reliable six-figure job
>Work in tandem with other artists so you aren't lonely
>No need to learn Japanese
If you like telling stories and feel like you're being held back by your poor drawing skills, becoming a storyboard artist is at least a good intermediate job before your comic skills take off.

>>6826492
>Work in tandem with other artists so you aren't lonely
But I don't want to work with other artists. And I want full control over the final result, rather than just being a cog in the machine.

>>6826517
>And I want full control over the final result, rather than just being a cog in the machine.
same, which is why I'm never giving up on manga. But I also don't think manga is a career you can immediately make a living in, you ahve to build an audience. Storyboarding is not a bad job for the meantime

>>6826492
Man I don't have the portfolio, let alone skill, to get a job doing that.

>>6826492
>good salary
You're drunk cat now kys

That or you're a woman or tranny or both, so you should also kys

>>6826492

>Good salary, a reliable six-figure job

Yeah this is a bold faced lie.

>>6826891
he didn’t say which currency

>>6823723
What do you mean?
B4/A3 or that stupid format Fabriano uses?

For A3/B4 you can use software that automatically combines photos to make panoramas. I use Microsoft ICE. It's discontinued but it's what worked better for me and I think you can still find it.

If you have a Fabriano just cut the sheet.

>>6826919
I was scanning 9x12 paper, which lead me down the rabbit hole of looking at larger scanners. I occasionally make sketches on larger formats like 18x24, and since I'm going to use B4 when I finish up my project I'll probably just do what this guy did and stitch it with hugin
https://mpetroff.net/2013/09/scanner-modifications-to-scan-large-documents/
>>6824194
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for that model

Do anyone has a scene with people sitting in a stair talking, that i can use as a reference? I don't have any that comes to my mind

>face and desing overall look way different and a bit off model from another angle
i know that i should get to perspective, but it's really hard when isn't a easy angle or a not so much pronounced angle

like is just a bit inclined not that much, that part is still hard for me, any tip besides grinding

learn english

>>6825406
Depends on what you want. I'd say keep it simple, just because stylized expressions can be less of a headache to draw than attempting something more realistic, especially if you're asking for tips in the first place.

>>6829028
Lots of manga struggle to make the characters look exactly the same in every shot. The trick is to design the characters in such a way that you don't need to draw them perfectly on model to know who they are. Ultimately, so long as they look close enough that it doesn't read like we're suddenly cutting to somebody entirely different, it doesn't matter.

>>6829072
The first drawing on that pic helps me a lot since i just forgot about doing the motion of the jaw in the right way

>>6829072
I got what you are saying, but i revisiting my draws, i notice that is more about something the style being more rounded or sharp between drawing, and even though they look the same, they just feel diferent and it just happens in certain angles

When the fucking fuck i had the great idea of making people talk in a staircase

Do you guys have any recommendations on resources to learn digital screentones?

I found like 5 online and they are all meh...

Also is CSP really the "go to" program for manga these days?
I know a bit of photoshop from graphic design but I'm not sure how well it would translate...

>>6826179
It's way too brief and I did get real sense how the characters are as people imo. Makes me think this why opening chapters tend to be the longest so you know the mc.

>>6828217
Grey's Anatomy has tons of scenes like that from the first few seasons. Look it up on Youtube
>>6829297
It's a cool shot

>>6817262
Make webcomics and start a patreon or something. I've spoken English for 20 years and I feel like my ability to express myself in English is only about 10% of what it is in my native language. I stopped actively learning Japanese many years ago, but I'm still at the level where I can, in most cases, understand ~80% of what I hear. The logic of the Japanese language and the general mindset of Japanese people (which heavily guides how the language is used) is just so different that I personally wouldn't go that route. Even if went balls deep in becoming "fully" fluent in Japanese, I feel like the end result would just be some kind of unholy abomination.

Alright this look natural? It doesn't look off? Doing trad first, but also i don't have any good reference near

>>6829309
CSP is designed to be easier for manga, but it doesn't mean that you have to go for that. I've used Photoshop for years and I don't really have any issue.

>>6829309
Csp had a lot of screentones, i have the ex simple plan and they give you ic stuff for free, so you either look up for them to use them in photoshop or you could try csp if you want to...
If i remember right the sma gives you 3 months for free in ex if you wanna try it first

>>6829441
>I've spoken English for 20 years and I feel like my ability to express myself in English is only about 10% of what it is in my native language.
Do you think that would change if you just read like 100 novels in the next 2 years? I'm in some Japanese learning communities (DJT) and they advocate for reading like 200-300 novels in order to be fully fluent in Japanese.

>>6829309
Unless you plan on actually printing the comic or using screentones, it’s completely pointless to use csp over anything else, and even then it’s just minor QoL as far as printing is concerned

>>6829507
I've consumed a massive amount of English-language content over the years, including novels, so I don't think that by itself would make much difference. You can understand a language fluently but still be fucking shit at producing text in that language. Which mean that to git gud, you'd have to put a lot of effort into practising creative writing as well. To put it bluntly, it's pure insanity and completely unnecessary to have the goal you have when you're already fluent in the most commonly spoken language in the world. Becoming a great comic author/artist in itself is already difficult enough.

>>6829471
Make the stairs 3d and turn it into a perspective study

I want to make 3 panel comics or 4koma. Is there's a general guide for pacing out a joke or payoff?

>>6829591
Anon, i posted mostly to know if it was acceptable enought to not use 3d models, that drawing took me like 10 minutes and setting everything in 3d takes me way more longer

>>6829688
>

>>6829739
Kinda makes sense. Any example artists I may learn from?

>>6829753
I don't know how you could get any example for an artist in general anon... just go and read some 4 komas

>>6829471
>>6829739
use a ruler, all mangaka use rulers for perspective. (and speed lines, and focus lines, and impact lines, etc.) learning to use a ruler and make the ruler drawing look organic and lively is a skill in itself

>>6829967
Obviously i'm going to use a rule later, but for the sketch i just wanted to see if the proportions looked right

>>6826517
>. And I want full control over the final result,
Even if you "make it" as a comic artist your editor will have final cut. Your ideas are not as good as you think and the market dictates what is popular. If you want final cut do it yourself and upload your work online.

>>6830251
Where in that post did I say I wanted to work with an editor? You're telling me to do something that my post already states my intention to do.

>>6830270
>Where in that post did I say I wanted to work with an editor?
You will need an editor my dude. You're not Cormac McCarthy. Your comic will be dogshit like 99% of people trying to make it.

>>6830806
99% of published comics are dogshit even with editors, they don’t do anything, they’re just the same failed comic authors as those “99% of people trying to make it”, except they gave up and now grift others with muh critical eye like the permabegs of the board

>>6804392
this is good, better than making one comic and staying with it forever. I see a lot of artist in the self publish space who get stagnated because they try making their series or something like that.

>>6830806
I do not "need" an editor any more than I "need" assistants. My odds of becoming successful would indeed be higher if I worked with a skilled and experienced editor, but such people are rare and hard to find (and hard to identify in the first place). Such a person is evidently not strictly required judging but the numerous successful works that have been created without editorial help.
My goal is to make the story I want to make and an editor would only get in the way of that. This, of course, is not the most financially secure approach -- which is why I am not currently pursuing it, and why what I'm doing in the mean time is talking with an editor.

>>6831571
>Such a person is evidently not strictly required judging but the numerous successful works that have been created without editorial help.

They are a tiny %.

>>6830806
Meh, if your goal is to create a universal masterpiece than an editor can help you make it more tight and polished. But I don't think it's as necessary if you're going for something that appeals to a specific niche or subculture. In that scenario you might even benefit from lack of an editor: your work could be rough but charming, like a wild outlaw.

>>6832018
The media are saturated with things that "appeal to a specific niche or subculture". Go to any webcomic platform or crowdfunding website to see them.

To make something actually good you have to leave your bubble and confront other people, and one problem of Western comics is that editors don't guide you when you are inexperienced, unlike in Japan where editors are so important in the process that they are basically co-creators.

>>6831938
what is the % of comics made better by editors? oh that’s right, you have no fucking idea
for all you know, editors predominantly ruin comics the same way suits ruin movies

>>6832059
>what is the % of comics made better by editors?
Oh i know, i'm not him, but naruto was hard carried by his editors

>>6832059
Dumb argument.

We judge comics for what they are, not for what they could be.

What's the % of good comics in self-publishing compared to published ones? Mind you, "published" doesn't mean necessarily mainstream.

>Oh i know, i'm not him, but naruto was hard carried by his editors

Any manga you read is curated by an editor, and they are deeply involved in the process of making it. Naoki Urasawa credited his editor Takashi Nagasaki as a co-creator for 20th Century Boys, you know, just one of those manga that is considered a masterpiece by basically everyone.

>>6832404
>no you don’t understand, you NEED a ruling class of nobility
>how many countries are there without one?
>stop questioning status quo right now

>>6832409
dude, you can make your own comic right now, with 100% creative freedom, go for it, what "ruling class" are you rambling about?

>>6832446
retard

>>6832463
Good argument, I'm definitely waiting for your magnum opus. Keeavyp us updated.

>>6832467
>malding so hard he can’t type straight

>>6832059
Araki says that editors some of the all-time most important people on the manga team, and that he is glad that somebody was on the other side of the table to push back when he was starting out.

>>6832506
>man dependent on edits pauses editors
support israel, goy, politicians say they’re y- I mean our greatest ally!

>>6812466
The sky shouldn't reflect on the inside of the stone arc since the ground its nowhere as reflective.

>>6832463
>>6832472
>>6832409
dumbfuck. Editors are your best weapon in making great manga. Boichi recommended in his latest video to not even study story structure, and to just focus on drawing, because your editor has screenwriting skills

>>6832671
>boichi
>manga

>>6803350
For a /beg/, how can I actually start formatting and creating a manga? do I wait and improve my writing and art skills as this would be my own project? Should I build a curriculum of what to learn, or just jump in? I need structure to actually make meaningful progress

Why are we arguing over this editor shit when 99% of us aren't in any position to have one in the first place? If you can get a competent editor he's going to be a great asset but most of the people in this thread are just working on their /beg/ tier comics by themselves and trying to get attention on social media or submitting to contests. If you do somehow get hired by a company I don't think you'll get a choice in whether you get an editor or not. The closest we can get is finding a trusted friend or a harsh enough forum to give feedback on your work.

>>6832711
Manga building skills are manga building skills. You need to do it to get better at it.

>>6832711
Thinking about whether you are good enough is the wrong mentality. The process of improving and doing are continuous and happen at the same time. If you are not sure what to do then you can grind short comics, around 10-30 pages, revolving around one concept, main character, and twist. Once you are done find your most obvious weakness and work on it. If your art is too ameuterish to look at then maybe you need to study anatomy, lighting, etc. as a seperate topic and hit the books. If your story is awkward then you need to study other authors and reverse engineer how they create dramatic moments.

Since you are not committing to any long term projects, instead of the mentality of saving your good ideas or waiting until you can draw good to work on your magnum opus, you should always be trying to create the best thing you have ever done in your life, with the knowledge at the back of your head that it's probably going to turn out ameuterish despite your best efforts. However, it will hopefully be an improvement on the last thing you've done- and will give you insight in what to work on for your next try. Then rinse and repeat.

>>6832404
>>6832506
I completely agree, editors are very important in making manga. I acknowledged as such here >>6831571. They are important, but not essential. I have a series where I know the story I want to tell and I want to tell it alone. This does not mean I think having an editor would be a waste of time, it means when I am working on that particular series, I do not want help.
The other anon has a point though, there is no data on how many series fail or succeed based on editorial input, so it's ridiculous to pretend to know when a series succeeded or failed based on said editorial input. You can ONLY say that Naruto succeeded thanks to its editor because the author went on record and talked about some of the changes the editor made him do. This does not mean or even imply that such changes happen for every series (nor does it imply that they don't happen either). Likewise for Araki's and Urasawa's comments -- these are single points of data, not even close to something that actually gives us knowledge of the industry. Anon is not wrong for expressing completely reasonable skepticism. The skepticism is reasonable, but he's making some silly comparisons -- like editors to tyrants. That's a silly comparison, mangaka do not NEED to heed their editor's word -- editors aren't their boss, they're colleagues. The editor's job is explicitly to help you make the best thing you can make (and implicitly to help you make the best selling thing you can make). They cannot force you to make said changes, but it would be moronic to ignore everything they say because a lot of the time they make good points. They know more about storytelling than you do, by virtue of going through tens of thousands of them. So trust them.
But it has to be somebody you can trust. I cannot trust a random editor I can just hire online, because I do not believe they know how to help me make the best thing I can make, or the best selling thing.

>>6832684
>weekly shounen jump
>anything but manga

>>6832775
>Why are we arguing over this editor shit when 99% of us aren't in any position to have one in the first place?
Because I (somebody who is in a position to work with an editor) expressed that I want to work on a series alone. So naturally the contrarian response ensued and I chose not to ignore it.

>>6832711
Same way you learn to walk. You practice until it comes naturally. If you wait, might be able to write a story, or draw a story, but you'll notice your complete lack of ability to tell a story. Comicmaking is telling a story on a page. The only way to start is... to start. If you need structure, then just start telling some stories. Struggle with the paneling for a while. Look at other comics/manga and see what they do. Pick things up as you go.
It will not be quick. I'm not sure there is a quick way.
And listen to this anon >>6832833

Man, I hate drawing legs and feet so much. It always ends up looking like my characters are bow legged.
Unrelated but I wish there were more channels that talked about biblical events without preaching. I'm Christian but I really don't like listening to a story being told but over half of it is unrelated rants.

I wish that i was this fucker in my next life

>>6832943
>The other anon has a point though, there is no data on how many series fail or succeed based on editorial input

It isn't a valid point because self-publishing is a thing, and you can easily see the difference between comics produced this way and comics that went through regular publishing, with the help of an editor.

Now self-publishing is easier than ever but we don't have better comics, most likely the opposite because more inexperienced have a chance to sell them.

>>6833346
>It isn't a valid point because self-publishing is a thing, and you can easily see the difference between comics produced this way and comics that went through regular publishing, with the help of an editor.
And what, pray tell, is that difference? Can you define it? There's plenty of crappy work that went through an editor, after all.
If you just go by success, there's a confirmation bias. The successful works aren't necessarily successful because of their editor, and unsuccessful series aren't necessarily unsuccessful because of a lack of editing -- all that might result from the majority of unsuccessful self-published work first going through an editorial stage is that the work simply doesn't get made at all.
>Now self-publishing is easier than ever but we don't have better comics
I'm not arguing that editors are somehow bad y'know. Nothing about what I've said implies that a rise in self-publishing would lead to a rise in overall quality of comics.

I wish I had an editor with huge tits and a hairbun style that would hit me with a ruler to make sure I draw a page a day and lets me use her body as a reference. Fuck this fucking gay world.

>>6833346
>Now self-publishing is easier than ever but we don't have better comics, most likely the opposite because more inexperienced have a chance to sell them.
opm is one of the most lauded comics ever made and it would have never been made with a publisher, even murata had to pull strings to get it published

It's really hard to stay motivated with no external influence
I keep reminding myself that I can draw tomorrow, but when I die I can't die tomorrow
If I want to make manga this badly why am I procrastinating?

>>6833709
It hard to find a balance, at least for me, either i procrastinate almost all week, or i get hyperfixated and fuck up myself while doing it

>>6833882
yeah that sounds kinda familiar
I wish I could be in the latter mode every day

>>6833709
You probably have other external stress and/or haven't developed a workflow.

The latter can be formed from inexperience and if you have an unrealistic idealistic fantasy of how it works it will stop you in your tracks whenever you start a few drawing a few strokes etc.

New thread
>>6834745

>>6834578
my workflow is I sit down and draw
I don't think it's optimized or nothin
but on the other hand
>other external stress
>other external stress
>other external stress
>other external stress