/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

why should what other people want to draw affect what you want to draw

>>6744214
Because if someone(s) does what I want to do but does it 10x better than would I could create, then there's no point in waiting my time doing it myself, when I could just look at their art.

Likewise, if someone does something after I already did it, and it looks 10x better, it retroactively makes my work look like shit, and I should delete it.

There's no room for unique artistic expression if we're all taking the same shit with different color paint.

>>6744223
soulless cuck

>>6744237
Wrong. Soulless is being Mona ass drawer #56368.

>>6744251
thats soulless as well
but
> someone(s) does what I want to do but does it 10x better than would I could create, then there's no point in waiting my time doing it myself
is a a soulless cuck mentality, end yourself

>>6744251
what about being klee cunny drawer #8593 or nahida feet drawer #756

>>6744252
Because there isn't. If I want to draw an image of my favorite character, but there's already hundreds to thousands of better images to choose from. Fuck wasting my time drawing my own inferior image when there's already art out there that does what I want but superior than what I can do. It's less work for the same result. I'm not going to waste my time drawing the same thing that already exists

>>6744257
>someone can do it better than me.... i quit!!
extremely based. you will never improve and will always live in the shadows of others

>>6744260
It's less that not wanting to improve and more what's the point of improving if all that work is to get the same result millions on others have already achieved, that I could have just download and not wasted my time.

Like the topic said. It's not that finding success is difficult, it's that success is just drawing an anime girl on a blank background on repeat, like everyone else.

>>6744257
That's because you have no unique voice of your own and you don't enjoy the process of creation. It's good that you're quitting now and saving yourself the trouble

can we permaban people like OP already

>>6744271
That's true. Can't say I enjoy the process at all. Doesn't help that my main motivation is to draw a character I like. And with so many artist out there doing the same thing, it's really tempting to just drop the pen and look at someone else's stuff. Especially when the result I get is the exact same.

>>6744257
>thinks that drawing is only about the end product
Yeah, ngmi

>>6744276
Ok now that that's established you could also spare everyone the blog posting, go watch some anime or sth. Consuming seems more suited to you.

I just don't know what else to do. Why would I draw an arbitrary background? I don't care about backgrounds.

>>6744266
But not everything that you want to draw have been drawn. That's why people who cant draw but has the money pays people who can draw in their stead.

>>6744342
You don't have to, just makes me stand out as an artist more.

>>6744208
drawing an anime girl takes a lot of practice
drawing a room takes a lot of practice
drawing a car takes a lot of practice
drawing a landscape takes a lot of practice

in manga making, often there is a specialist for each

and the argument that if you can construct you can draw anything is an absolutely blatant lie.

nothing is as especial in michelangelo's painting except for the bodies and drapery, the landscape looks amteurish, and he was a fucking master.

you have been repeatedely posting making fun of people who draw floating anime girls in the last months, but you are just creating an unrealistic expectation from most artists

>>6744388
>in manga making, often there is a specialist for each
You can flip on a Pixiv live and see them drawing comics all by themselves. No assistants. This is cope.

There's a reason why AI triggers so many people, it exposes the kitsch makers for what they are.

Drawing an anime girl on a blank background is unironically the ultimate display of skill artists can do to measure their merit. There's no excuses, no room for error, just pure knowledge of the craft

>>6744517
no

>>6744266
Anon, this is literally the "holy shit, two cakes!" meme, there is a lot of variation you can do in the same drawing, maybe it's a different pose, maybe it's a different look, maybe they're in a new outfit, maybe your style is different, maybe someone got used to the original artwork, even just that for the most part, browsing artwork is free and takes no time and someone might see your artwork under theirs and go "oh, that's pretty good too".

This is also why you have "draw this in your style" challenges, even the same thing drawn by 50 people doesn't get old.

>>6744561

>>6744561
What's the point of putting in effort baking a cake similar to the first cake when I can just eat the better cake? They'll both taste the same anyway.

>>6744223
Some people are eating 10x more than you.
Some people are earning 10x more money than you.
Some people are having 10x more sex and 10x more children than you.
Some people are exercising 10x more than you.
Some people are complaining on 4chan 10x more than you.

Why do you do anything?

>>6744608

Sounds like you read too many Grant Cardone books.

>>6744608
None of this is related to art.

>>6744619
Yeah, I read 10x more Grant Cardone (whoever that is) than OP.

>>6744620
So? That's his excuse for not doing art, but it can be applied to anything.
You'll never be top 1 in the world, and if you are, it will be at one very specific thing that will consume all of your free time.

So you might as well quit doing anything at all, but I'm sure there are people who have attempted suicide 10x more than you, the best you can do is to tie the successful ones for a whopping 1st place shared with millions.

>>6744276
You probably dont even have an actual interest in drawing or creating art
what you really want is twitter clout from being a fanartist
you're a pathetic excuse for a human being
Just work your wallmart job and consume your flavor of the month anime/netflix shows until your obesity stops your heart
You are a human being born without a soul. Dont worry, its a perfectly normal condition

>>6744601
Because maybe your thing has a different taste for all sorts of reasons, maybe you have a different pose, different style, maybe they're in a different setting, different inspiration, different anything, art isn't nearly as solved as you think it is, even just browsing the front page of a booru you'll see ordinary things in cool new poses, costumes, and situations.

And that's just for stuff that already exists, what if someone asks something in, for example, a drawthread that's a never-seen-before cosplay or a new pose or something distinct enough.

>>6744208
Old ladies pay me $600 a week for dog paintings.
There's a billion ways to make bank with art you focus on the one you don't want to pursue because you don't want to make art.

>>6744208
Wow, a thread made for meaningless pathetic whinging. I hope you're happy OP.

>>6744648
Stop assuming. I don't have a social media account where I post my art. Art is not my career.

OP sounds like a true consoomer, the one that cannot for the life of themselves see things past the end product, not the process, nor the meaning behind the whole endeavour; it is indeed pathetic, but it is what it is, it just means you dont belong here.
You're pathetic for whining about it on an art board, but it cant be helped you're just not up for the creative process of art, you just want to consoom, so your best bet is to give up.
>also
Reading you say shit like "what's the point when someone does it better?" is hilarious because not so long ago I finished a fanart of a character I love the way I wanted it. People have done a better work than me, but that doesnt matter because I made it, I loved doing it and I loved the end result.
Get fucked, OP, you will never feel the joy of creation.

I wrote a really insightful and elaborate answer, but decided to keep it to myself after seeing OPs attitude.

>>6744561
>>6744653
are right on the money

I reject OPs message in it's entirety and the notion that he should follow what's popular. but i will refuse to elaborate because his attitude comes off as standoffish and rude.

The first mental issue he has to adress is his notion that art can only be "better" or "worse".

I won't say any more.

>>6744608
Do any of those require as much effort for a thing that is practically useless? The ability to draw cartoon girls in a vacuum well ranks lower in the social standing list than being a fit athlete or a real estate agent.

times change. recognize that everything you draw is a commodity. regardless if it's original there are so many images on the internet everyday it doesn't matter. original or not it's a commodity.

you need to curate a consistent vibe, and you need to promote community and serve a purpose. that's it.

if you want to make people coom then go for it man, but that's like being a drug dealer. as soon as you try to branch out people wont care.

So step one draw stuff that's meaningful to the audience you want to curate.

step two create posts that provide value to others, whether that's sharing insight into your process with wips, or talking about your feelings and how you found ways to overcome your hardships.

step three is to form community with those that interact with your posts. get involved. message people. commit to maintaining acquaintances.

>>6744208
>What's the point of drawing if we're all drawing the same thing?
clout

>>6744742
I'm not OP but I'm sort of discouraged by art right now for similar reasons, so I would really appreciate seeing what your response was.

Maybe it's not important but my specific situation is I've been studying for a few years and at this point I would say I'm pretty decent at drawing figures. There was something I wanted to see in the fandom I am/was interested in, so I started drawing fanart and posting it online. I draw at a snail's pace so even though I'm a neet right now I can only finish 1 piece a week, at most.
A few months of this pass and someone new joins the fandom and they're technically better than me in some ways, worse in others, but they post every couple of days. This would all be fine, except what they're posting is exactly what I wanted to see - not only that, but their specific ideas are leagues better (by which I mean, I like them more) than what I was able to come up with - and the masses and other artists seem to agree overwhelmingly with that. My brain doesn't seem to factor in technical ability in how much I enjoy a piece, so even though there's some aspects of their work I find wonky, overall I like their work more than mine. And because it just feels like a superior version of what I was trying to make, I feel like I've lost all reason to make fanart for this series, which mattered a lot to me.

>>6744561
Does this stupid image still hold true with AI spam?

>>6744884
I think it's still true, AI is nice but I think for 99.99% of people if you asked them if they want a hand drawn awesome artwork by someone who's even an intermediate artist, or a bunch of AI artworks, they'll take the human artwork outside of really exceptional scenarios.

Actually, I think if you gave them the option, they'll probably say gimme both.

>>6744880
NTA but fuck, anon, that's pretty grim, I can almost feel the pain of that situation.
I think the best advice I can give you is that you come up in terms with the fact you two are two different artists within the same niche, you have your ideas and they have their own, you have your skills and they have their skills, understand that there's no need to put either of you above the other and no one will do it anyway.
Take advantage of this concern of yours to improve on your skillset and creativity and make the most of it, study the other artist if you have to, also dont see this other artist as your rival, but as your ally, after all you are two artists in the same small niche, you two are going to be highly appreciated even if one is better than the other. You can also befriend the artist in question, that somehow works to ease up your mind in situations like these.
Also have some more confidence on your works, the other artist may be better than you in some aspects, but I suspect you may be also overestimating them because of this feelings of yours, try to think about this with a cool head, but also dont think too hard about it, like I said, use it as a way to improve yourself.

Hope those feelings get a good resolve, anon. I believe in you,

>>6744884
would you take the mass produced frankenstein cake that is always the same or one handcraft with love and care?

>>6744208
The point of drawing is that it's fun. You are having fun drawing, right Anon?

>>6744880
You need to start pushing your concepts not just the technical skills /ic/ cares about. Try doing more work on story telling in your art to make your pieces more compelling.

>>6744208
that +soul

>>6744223
haha... the world doesn't exactly need more artists drawing cute girls. if you are doing this, it is probably because you personally just want to know how to do it. that's my reason anyways

>>6745348
Thank you for your words anon, I've felt very alone in this situation so I'm relieved to have someone empathize at least a little
>dont see this other artist as your rival, but as your ally
You're right, and in my head I know you're right, but my gut doesn't want to admit this for some reason. Maybe I just need more time for it to sink in

>>6745386
>work on story telling
Yeah, this is what I need to do. But I don't really know how to train this. I suspect you might be referring to a slightly different aspect, but I honestly struggle with practically every bit of the story-telling process, especially the beginning.
The thing I wanted to see is a specific characterization of certain characters ("a vibe" I guess), but when I try to come up with situations to draw, I have to really wrangle them out of my head, and while other people seem to like what I come up with (I've even had someone leave specific lovely comments), I feel like I've forced something out, which makes me feel awful drawing it and just overall dissatisfied when I finish it.
It doesn't help that in my realm of fandom I see artists writing threads upon threads of scenarios everyday, even if they don't draw most of them, so I feel like the odd one out because I don't have idea upon idea spilling out of me

>>6745480
I also just wanted to add, there are a couple of pieces where the idea just came to me suddenly, and I drew it and ended up really enjoying the whole process, and I'm still fond of them, so I know it's possible for me to come up with ideas that I like, but they seem so few and far between

>>6744880
>>6745480
It seems like all of this can be remedied by expanding your horizons. NEETing and inhibiting your self to a niche just spells disaster. You trapped yourself in mental bubble. That would drive anyone insane. Do you like anything else outside of that fandom? Other series? Concepts? Ideas? I usually tend to get my ideas from current events in my life, or stuff i fantasize about. I.e. i got my car fixed recently, so i drew a scenario of someones car breaking down on the highway, or a hot mechanic fixing up a rod with a joke spliced in. Creative minds get inspired by events that occur in their lives, build on that.

>>6745502
I'm not going to say I live the most adventurous of lives but I definitely have more going on than when I was working full-time (the reason I became a neet in the first place was I felt like I was losing my life to my job); I'm involved in multiple sports with other people which I do a few times a week, I have to take taxis everywhere and the majority of the drivers here are talkative, and I read quite a lot. I also speak 2 languages fluently and comprehend a 3rd (listening only) so I spend a lot of time in those spheres too.
I am very limited in what I see day-to-day I guess though

>>6745480
>but my gut doesn't want to admit this for some reason.
That is because, like I suspected, you are overestimating them, once you have gotten used to them and their works and have properly internalized these thoughts, your guts will agree into seeing that other artist as an ally, that is why I also suggested befriending them, it makes the process go smoother.

Also let me stick my fork into the storytelling bit because Im also a huge fag for storytelling.
Storytelling goes down on knowing how to convey a particular scenario using enough communication elements, cleverly using poses, gestures, expressions and information to tell something, even if it's something as mundane as two characters having a conversation. The best way to train this is by making the scenarios in your head and analyzing every aspect I mentioned one by one. It is also important that you know the characters well enough to stick to their canon or fill the blanks with something loyal to their character designs, that is less about storytelling and more about character design, a good exercise for this can be just feeding yourself with character tropes, design choices, worldbuilding, setups and the like... then start moving the scenarios in your head, it's all about fantasizing!
>It doesn't help that in my realm of fandom I see artists writing threads upon threads of scenarios everyday
Learn more by observing and analyzing their texts and stories, they way they convey storytelling can also nuture your way of storytelling... and you can also draw what they come up with, that is very welcomed and lowkey lovely to see as a writer.
>>6745513
As for this, another way to harvest creativity is by gaining knowledge, you gain knowledge with experience, but also with research, the more you know, the larger your mental library becomes, which helps you to come up with more stuff to play with. Look up things that intrest you, either by reading or watching.

>>6745381
>fun
Honestly, I have to admit that the process isn't enjoyable as it was when I first started. I struggle with retaining information, so practicing feels incredibly tedious and can take weeks or even months to relearn what I already knew. It's difficult for me to consistently learn new things without forgetting what I've already learned, as it tends to replace previous knowledge. Additionally, coming up with ideas is challenging because I have aphantasia. Searching for references takes up a significant portion of my session time. While I don't mind sketching, creating line art is annoying and never turns out as precise as I would like. I don't particularly enjoy coloring either and would rather stick with flat colors or no color at all. The worst part is that, after spending hours of my life tirelessly working on a single piece of art, it often looks terrible the next day, sometimes even on the same day.

So, all in all, it's not a fun experience. And after going through all this trouble for years, reading books, watching videos, copying my favorite artist, I end up with a subpar result when I could have simply went to a booru and found dozens of artists who have already created the exact image I was to create, and done it ten times better than I ever could. I have no ideas what I'm drawing for anymore. But I know a reason to stop.

>>6745547
>why I also suggested befriending them
Yeah I agree I think it would help, and in another situation I would try to, but I think they probably wouldn't want to befriend me (put briefly, there's a bit of an X vs Y culture; I enjoy both but only want to draw X (probably), but this person loathes Y and flat-out doesn't interact with anyone who likes it)

>fill the blanks with something loyal to their character designs
Like visual character design?
>a good exercise for this can be just feeding yourself with character tropes, design choices, worldbuilding, setups and the like... then start moving the scenarios in your head
This sounds interesting/doable, but I guess I'm a little confused if you mean making OC vs fan content? The latter sounds doable with both but the former (especially character tropes) I can't really imagine with fan content

>Learn more by observing and analyzing their texts and stories
I'm still a bit too emotionally charged about the whole situation so I can't really face this person's works (or honestly anything fandom-related at all) calmly right now, but I will admit I never really read peoples' threads that closely, I'll try to pay more attention when I've calmed down
(Though I just did a quick scroll-through of the person in question's feed and they don't seem to post stuff like that unfortunately; just works and comments on other people's works)

>another way to harvest creativity is by gaining knowledge...Look up things that intrest you
I'll try this. I have to admit I'm a little skeptical about how it can help creativity (outside of the obvious world-building/designing objects), but I've noticed parallels between unrelated fields before so I'll try to stay open-minded

>>6744726
This anon is being blunt about it but they're not wrong.

If you truly believe shit like "there's no point in waiting my time doing it myself, when I could just look at their art" why the fuck are you even here?

>>6745553
If you truly feel this way, quit now. I honestly have no idea why you started trying to draw in the first place. Seriously, why?

>>6745553
Why did you even start drawing anon? That booru art has been there for years too. If there's so much shit exactly like you wanted to create and it's good enough for you, nothing about that changed. Your reasoning makes no sense, you would've felt like this from day one and quit back then if that's all there was to it. What did you seriously expect? You'd be the only person making fan art of that character? You'd be the best at it?

Either you forgot your real motivation, or you really were just looking to chase clout.

>>6745612
>but I think they probably wouldn't want to befriend me
>X vs Y culture
Well, there goes that plan, sounds like a shipping wars from the lack of context lmao
>Like visual character design?
No, what I mean is the character's internal design, you know, traits, lore, personality... think of a character with a "head" being it's internal design, and the "body" being it's visual design. "Filling the blanks" is something you see more in the realm of fanarts and fanfiction, it means you go out of your way to give the characters elements that, albeit not part of their canon, they may fit accurately given the canon info.
>but I guess I'm a little confused if you mean making OC vs fan content?
By researching further into character design and worldbuilding you get the tools to work on both original content and and fan content alike, after all you're just looking for general information. The catch is that both OC and FC have their different ways to tackle:
With original content you have a significant, more open window of experimentation, you can bend the setup as you please, but you need to work every detail in order to have everything make sense
With fan content you already have a preset to work with that saves you a lot of planning, but your window of experimentation is more narrowed.

If it's still difficult to understand how researching character design/worldbuilding works for fan content, let me give you an example: My main project started as a Mario fanfic, where I made some tweaks the canon characters a little bit to suit certain story element and enhance their character designs, I didnt go too far away from the canon, just added more and reimagined some little things. This is a common practice in the realm of fan content.

(cont, stupid character limit)

>>6746240
>I'm still a bit too emotionally charged about the whole situation so I can't really face this person's works
Understandable, take your time to ease yourself first before diving into analyzing their works. And keep in mind you dont have to just observe that artist's works, but anyone else's as well, anyone can be a good source for information and inspiration, dont shut yourself to just that one artist if you plan to dive into studying.
>I have to admit I'm a little skeptical about how it can help creativity
You see, the two ways you can gain knowledge is by experience and research, experience is a great way for gaining knowledge because you study something in your own flesh and body, but research allows you to reach distances you may not be able to experience. Think about this: You plan to write about a military story, but you have no military knowledge whatsoever and you cant just enlist yourself for that, so your best option is to start researching military topics, tactics, strategies, war, history... just so you can have a better understanding of it that allows you to write an accurate military story.
If the lore of your fan content is something along the lines of ancient civilization (as an example), you can look up anything related to it, their culture, history, mythos, etc, this way you have more to play with that you can cleverly fit into the fan content itself (without disrupting the canon too much, that is).

Hope all those walls of text make some sense lmao

>anime girl on a blank background
Most of you retards can barely do that right. 99% of "well done" anime on this board are just CJK reposts.

>>6746240
>>6746243
Thanks for all of the advice anon, I think understand how to proceed from here now and I have a few ideas of my own after reading some of your examples

In that case its not entirely about the drawing itself, but what you must do to get what you want out of it while performing an effort. And also, not drawing the same thing if that doesn't get you what you want.

>>6747052
nice brapper but oof, the melted face, you couldn't have spent a few more minutes inpainting?

>>6747314
I have to add glitter to the eyeballs so it doesn't look so flat, but my drawings have that dull face problem, like it's lifeless

Yes

>>6747759
I wonder why...

>>6747314
pyw or fix it up, would love to see your attempt

>>6747052
Literally free money. Oh look, it's one year of AI experience. We all made it

>>6747052
why do /ic/fags deliberately post the worst ai pics