/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6725716
yes, but you have to look at tutorials and listen to advice from other's anyway or else you don't progress at all.

>>6725716
When the 5 closest people to you were one-sided lecturers - who were savants and practised talented professionals of their craft that can teach - it could work out.
>No one to fuck with you
>Lower risk of social hazards
>Never have to confront "why" every other day
>Criticism not being the same as ridicule - no one says anything harsh about your work to just feel better, it's only actionable advice.
>Shameless gathering of copious study materials.
>When you want focus, you can focus, and get time to focus.

Likely, everyone else doesn't, won't, and can't get it.

You're already here, try it for the next handful of months. The hard part is the beginning

>>6725716
why do you isolate from society?

>>6725716
a little, yeah.

no, if anything re-integrating into the world improved my skills

>>6725716
Yes, but you become so alien that your level of thinking and ideas is so advanced that mere mortals cannot comprehend anything you say.
Only those who willingly isolated themselves will be able to understand what you say, but everyone else will have an hostile reaction to anything you say, do or show.

Even if not purely technical, it will improve your understanding of art if you focus and deal with the art; same is true for any other object of interest.
By being alone with your thoughts, you will have no outside influence telling you to stop thinking the wrong things or shaming you for talking to yourself when you're alone.
Other people usually hold you back because they don't want to get left behind in their misery i.e. crab mentality.
Your own intelligence and critical thinking skills also do play a big role on whether you go legitimately crazy or not.

There is no real advantage to belong to this deeply sickened and rotten society anyway, you are only willingly imprisoning yourself by abiding to social rules and contracts which do limit your thinking, lower your intelligence and destroy your creativity.

Once i realized that "belonging" meant to simply be some unthinking flesh automaton going along and playing sick games for material gain, i had gained real freedom in exchange for never being able to "belong" anymore.

>>6725716
The fuck does isolated from society mean? You went to a deep forest retreat for the weekends?

>>6725716
I dont really socialize with anyone anymore so I have lots of time to myself. I study and draw all day and have improved a lot over the past year since I stopped talking to friends.
When I was still talking to and hanging out with friends I could spend all day with them. I didnt study often because I often drew just for fun with them.

If you want to get good you need to sacrifice your social life.

>>6725857
More like living alone and not even going outside for groceries

>>6725842
Very redpilled post.

>>6725716
if you cant draw anything without someone elses input then youre suffering from codependency. You should be able to learn all that you need from tutorials, books, videos, etc on your own. If you cant digest what those tutorials have laid down on paper, someone elses points wont help much either because theyll just regurgitate what you should have gathered from a tutorial. no doubt a pair of fresh eyes can help now and then, but they are very overratred by would be art gurus who have a mighty need to feel their opinion matters stemming from some misplaced insecurity. Sometimes other peoples critiques are based on subjective taste and not helpfull towards the goal you want. Say i want to draw in a type of american or even anime style, but someone doesnt like the style im going for. their critique isnt going to help and will veer off the path i want.
You can improve on your own, but you have to have to be very honest with yourself and have half a brain to say, "this sucks," or "I want to improve my inking or give my work a more volume". You have to have a clear goal of where your going.

What do you mean isolate by society. If I was truly isolated I wouldn't be on 4chan. No truly isolated artist is on here because he is still constantly exposed and influenced to other forms of thinking and arts.

>>6725960
internet socializing =/= socializing

>>6725972
Ok well I am not exactly isolated but isolating from others can be helpful so I don't have to compromise my own beliefs and vision but socializing or interacting with those far greater in skill level and knowledge can be better for skill improvement. However socializing with interesting people from different backgrounds can also give you better inspiration or ideas or be helpful occasionally. I would also think if you're an artist who incorporates themes based on real life events then being a part of society can be important, after all fantasy and reality are often interlocked.

>>6726028
>isolating from others can be helpful so I don't have to compromise my own beliefs
You don't question your own beliefs?

>>6726045
I do, but I meant I don't have to compromise my own vision. I don't want to compromise my vision of something to avoid upsetting or offending others. The core meaning of art is not about being right or wrong in beliefs and values but rather actualize something of the maker that speaks only to him. An artist's belief in art is not about being right or wrong, a vision cannot be right or wrong, rather it is about how honest he is with himself. When you are told by society what is wrong or right to think or imagine that is hurtful to the artist's expression because he will be more reluctant to express certain ideas in fear of judgement. Art can only be right or wrong when judged from a technical standpoint.

Have you not looked out the window and seen all those buisnesses making bank off of diversity hires?
Japan is making bank with their manga compared to Diversity Comics and Marvel.
A fresh perspective is great, i think ill get them from books though instead of randos on the internet.

>>6726061
This
Japan has phenomenons like Made in Abyss
What is the American equivalent?
Nothing. Because all American media is about pushing a state-worshipping agenda rather than enjoying an escapist fantasy adventure.

>>6726089
Even back when american comic stuff was escapist fantasy, it was shitty escapist fantasy that hinged on the same cliches over and over. Cool guy with ripped jean jacket and leather gloves beats up bad guys in the street for the thousandth time. One flavor of cheesecake love interest who adds nothing. Vigilante says a cool one-liner. That kind of thing. American creativity past the 60's is all trend hopping and weird insecure subculture pandering. Even now, instead of hippy pandering we got woke pandering. It's all just profiteering off of peoples weird stereotypes and pretense, that exists in the first place because we all have low self esteem and spend our time posturing to each other. Instead of thinking about life and philosophy, moral relativity and shit. Euro comics tackle that stuff, though it's not without its own sins.
Also made in abyss has garbage writing but even with all its weird esoteric incoherence and fetish bait, it's still more compelling than anything a mindbroken westerner makes because it's not subject to all that weird western pretense. Isolating yourself might not improve your art skills but if you use that isolation to meditate, it will improve your creativity skills. Making connections between the physical and the metaphysical, the tangible and the symbolic, you might come back as a great writer and an artist who escaped the clutches of trends and cliches. That is, without thinking you have to subvert everything just because, because that's cancer too.

Ignore every one
Pay for professional critique

>>6725842
There's a philosopher called Olavo de Carvalho who said that being hated by a crowd of ignoramuses is the price of not being one of them

Any act of creating requires both time and solitude. Socialize when you have something to show.

Yes
Other people have only ever caused stress and drama in my life

>>6727357
yes

>>6725716
>>6725842
>>6727247
>>6725928

I think this is the perfect time to bring up this meme. This dude was initially criticized when the video of him "harassing" the trumpet player came out, but I always though he had a good point. Now that I'm older I know he was 100% correct and that trumpet player was an obnoxious hack. I mean "there's his critique", from a guy that worked in the entertainment industry telling him to stfu and go practice on his own time.

You do not see...probably 70-90% of an artists actual works. They're sketches, diaries basically. They throw them away even if they're not satisfied or know they don't make the cut. All of those are made in isolation, most are practices/sketches/warmups. You don't have to isolate from society, but you should isolate your art from it. Only put out the ones you think society should see, like you would an opinion. If someone likes your art they may want to commission you, the same way if someone likes what you say and how you say it may commission you to do a radio show.

Japanese have a custom to never say no. Many ideas are offered, but no one outright says no to the idea, they just ignore it.

>>6729442
i dont know where i was going with this, but whatever. food for thought.

>>6729098
>he was 100% correct
His execution was off. Should have shown some class, instead came off as shortman syndrome.

>>6729452
If it were me being pestered by a shitty horn player I would have shoved that garbage bag down the trumpet

>>6729098
Shut up you stupid fucking kike

>>6729930
he's right you know

>>6725716
na. being around other people is always best

>>6730372
Not really

>>6725716
yes. if you have the endurance and nerves, having nothing on your mind but art all day is a huge asset to learning. whether it's worth the price is another question.

DXM use pretty much isolated me from society.

I will say, all of you praying you wish you had less friends and more time to draw, be wary, once you hit rock bottom and NOBODY wants to be your friend anymore, you start to feel an existential depression that is akin to, well being an incel i suppose.
you feel outcast in society and start to notice the other outcasts, the ones who always bow in shame, looking to the floor, as if, no, they know theyre on the bottom rung of society. you feel it.

idk man. isolation is overrated. it depends on whether its self imposed isolation akin to an intellectual going out into the woods, but as a former thieving drug addict who drove everyones trust into the ground, people start to see you for what you really are eventually. trust is a bitch to rebuild and desperation is a stinky cologne.

back in high school, i used to groan about having to hang out with my friends, and sometimes i would straight up tell them "no i need time to draw to draw" and theyd respect that, now im 30 and in an area where i didnt goto high school here or have any work related social connections.

there is a period where you have to "isolate to grind fundies" i suppose but man its hard. man is a social creature, and the amount of brain stimulation you get from other people is something i had to learn to do. if youre bored with the people in your life, just venture out and find somebody completely different. I go to alcoholics anonymous meetings and pretend im an alcoholic just to talk and listen to some older folks. its nice actually, and gives me a different perspective. then i goto this hippie dippie coffee shop and just hang out there some and chill with people younger than me. i get sick of both groups fast, but its showed me the brain was built for finding people interesting, even in the most introverted of cases.

if you are looking for solitude, DXM creates a state of zen like emptiness and calm within oneself 2 draw with.

>>6730448
Why not? No typing, free models, collaborate. Imagine working with 2 other ppl who draw the same content, and have no other life besides art and day job

>>6725716
For a few months or so but eventually i became insane from the judgement of other people after crawling out of my hole and then could not function

>>6732909
>Imagine working with 2 other ppl

>>6733049
Alright. Now you need to share some stories.

>>6733765
They kept wanting to take over the project despite not being interested in it until it got followers.
Then mobilized their followers into a witch hunt trolling campaign against me when I wouldn't sign them on.
Now I just do solo projects under a different alt.

>>6732877
maybe it's the dxm use that's given you existential depression

>>6735014
That sucks. Yeah finding cool ppl can be difficult

>>6725716
>Artists who isolate from society-
>Has it improved your art skills?
Sort of. I'm a NEET and a hermit. If I was busy waging my life away or socializing like a normie I wouldn't have been working on art.
Although time is just the prerequisite for working on the art, which is the main factor in improving.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"outsider" art

>>6737387
How does /ic/ feel about this?

>>6737735
/ic/ are nothing but outsiders

>>6725716
Yes, I improved a lot in the 3 years I have been living off my art than the rest of my life.
However, I wouldn't recommend this life to anyone, it fucked by social skills beyond belief. I'm thinking on getting a job, even if I earn even less than what I'm earning now, just to have someone to talk to

Nope, unless you want to create pretentious weird garbage pulled straight from your depressed ass for hippies to look at.
I was 7 yrs at home working mostly on commissions. I do not recommend. I went back to college this year and my creativity is over the roof. I don't ever want to go back to that isolation. The ideas dry out very quickly.

>>6739255
>pretentious weird garbage
subjective

When I was working 6 nights a week tossing boxes around in a supermarket, I wanted a relationship. I would walk to work, looking at New York City from the Jersey side of the Hudson river along a road from the top of the Palisades cliffs to the bottom and thinking how nice it would be to have a girlfriend to explore that place with. I found solace through Second Life, of a sort. Convincing a woman avatar out of her clothes to have advanced pixel sex became a sport with me,and a gift for gab had women making appointments for me to inspire them to masturbate furiously. It is a remarkable art medium all its own. Conjure blocks from thin air,shape them to fit,link them together into complex objects,and you can even program them in their own scripting language that you stick like a scroll into a golem to get it to function. You can texture the blocks as you wish,with your own textures that you can upload, 1024x1024 being the largest at my time,2014 or so when I left. What you see is a ballroom that I created,with Mandelbulb flowers,color changing crystal grass and trees. New age music ,commercial free from a streaming service I was happy to pay for. The fog rolled underfoot as you danced,in essence your avatar and your partner are using an animation program, and the skirts flow behind like the trail of a comet. To cause Romance to happen for others was magical to me,and selling my animated paintings was fulfilling too,since the only resource that is expended in making 99% of SL stuff is time,and once made,you can sell copies of it forever. And it can lead to real money, since you can buy the currency, called Lindens,and sell it back to them for your country's cash.

I say all this because I know the burden of crushing loneliness. Second Life is like fast food,nothing in the way of the nutrients you need psychologically, but it stops the hunger pangs.

>>6739520
bumping to read this post later

>>6729098
He is a gatekeeping doodoo head.
I am happy to see art and happy to see sketches.
As long as only these types and not a majority of people are actually negatively impacted by some trumpet tunes at the side of the street - what's the harm?
If anything, that stinky man in a blue shirt is doing harm.
Probably just had a bad day and too emotionally immature to handle it properly, instead multiplying the misery.
Though I guess being humble and vulnerable isn't what gets you into these self-serving institutions in the first place.

>>6725842
Smoking marijuana is not a personality.

>>6729098
This man isn't right, he's just a kike kvetching because his memorial place is being desecrated by a nigger playing sax.

>he should be practicing instead
Please, no. I stay at home and had sax players practicing as neighbors, I'd rather he goes somewhere only normalfags would be, such as outside.
The Jew tells him to get a studio, which would be ideal, but that can get expensive, not feasible for some nobody sax player who is there precisely to busk for money.

>>6740528
>art and sketches
not the same as making noise and disrupting potentially hundreds of people's busy day

>>6725842
>you will have no outside influence telling you to stop thinking the wrong things
those are the right things not the wrong things, others put the wrong things into the mind

According to other people if I want to draw lolis beating up men that makes me a bad person

>>6745368
what other people?

>>6725716
Only in small bursts. I found it somewhat unsustainable unless you're fully fledged autistic or schizoid.

>>6725842
I know a couple of guys that talk like you do and have isolated themselves for months at a time, occasionally coming back to show the "progress" and "breakthroughs" that they've made.
Every single time their art either looks worse, or they just change their art style because they started copying another big artist instead of the one they were copying before.
They talk like they're above everyone but they watch the same shitty anime and manga and play the same shit video games everyone else does but they think they're smarter or something because they daydream about combining all this shitty media into their own project, as if other people don't daydream.
It really isn't a good mindset to have. It's more of a cope than anything. People who actually are creative and different don't have to try and don't have to talk about it like that to try to convince others. When you see someone talking like that you know they're just coping about their own insecurity, and they never get projects beyond some sketches because they will be embarrassed when it fails since they talk themselves up so much. They will defend themselves under the guise of perfectionism though.
Don't talk big, don't think about society as a whole, don't put yourself above others.
Just do stuff. That will actually seperate you from the rest.

>>6725842
>Once I realized that "belonging" meant to simply be some unthinking flesh automaton going along and playing sick games for material gain

What are you? 12? Even pre-teens know this.

>>6726175
>American creativity past the 60's is all trend hopping and weird insecure subculture pandering.

That's how I see Japanese creativity, specially in the late 2010s, and 2020s.

>>6732877
>man is a social creature

Is that because we need(ed) a group to survive or because we need to interact with other people otherwise we go crazy?
I see that argument thrown around all the time but I've been in complete isolation for almost 3 decades and I don't miss having friends or lovers in the slightest.
Maybe I'm the 10th dentist or maybe that argument is misunderstood.

>>6739162
>I wouldn't recommend this life to anyone, it fucked by social skills

That's why introverts are the best artists, specially when they hate most people too.

>>6746953
>t. mere mortal

>>6746974
>weird insecure subculture pandering
>Japanese creativity
Japanese do not give a fuck

>>6747021
she's CUTE who is this?

>>6747309
>she

>>6747320
Yes

>>6746953
Not necessarily your own insecurities, but you really are just projecting there and nothing you said remotely applies to me.

Just to clarify, I don't mean it as a diss or as an insult.
I tend to either agree with Anon here >>6747019

You and the others don't get it because i am almost alien to you and your only point of reference you're willing to accept is other people like yourself, hence you're projecting.

If you tried to make first contact with an actual ayy lmao, what would you do? Demand of him to express himself with idioms and behaviors of your culture, or try to understand and translate what he is saying to comprehend the nuances of its statements?
Alternatively, do you go to a homeless man and just tell him to buy a house and get a job?

I do not claim to be superior to anyone either, it rather comes off as an hostile reaction on your part if you accuse me of that.

I see this a lot here and on socials as well.
Why do people tend to go into fantasy accusations and stuff like; "i am literally in your mind right now i know your life better than you do you probably want to fuck spiders" ?
I know the answer, but stating it will make me an enemy.>>6727247

>>6725716
it doesn't work like that

I wish I was isolated from the world. I wish I could never leave my house. I hate people. I wish I was locked in a box and can only focus on art. But I'm a wagie stuck in a renttrap hellhole. I work on art for about 2 hours a day, which honestly I have no excuses to why I dont work longer. Well aside from being so tired all the time. My skills are pretty stagnant. I've recently been pushing myself to improve and go out of my comfort zones, so because of that theres now recent improvements.

>>6747507
I don't know anon it's just the people I've met that sound like you just always talk big but never have anything of actual substance to show for it and are always afraid to actually do any real work.
Basically glorified "idea guys" that at best ape another artists style

>>6748852
You're passing judgement upon someone you do not even know, based on your limited experiences and your own projections.
What kind of point are you even trying to make with what you say?
I'm not one of your friends, buddy.

>>6748871
It was just a warning for young artists that isolating yourself won't really benefit you much and will actually probably hurt you if you alienate yourself from others, especially those that might actually help you. That's why I used the example of those artists I know who did it and their art got worse or just changed their artstyle from one artist to another.
I guess I didn't really mention though that there is a difference between isolation because you're so busy working that you don't have time for anything else (based, gmi), and going out of your way to isolate yourself because you think people don't get you and are a waste of time, pride, etc (faggot, ngmi)

>>6748896
See >>6727247

>>6748896
>going out of your way to isolate yourself because you think people don't get you and are a waste of time, pride, etc
Ask yourself, why would i willingly and physically submit myself to interact and entangle my existence with people who believe they know me better than i do and constantly patronize me, while not being able to grasp that there is more than black and white, while being subjected to a social hierarchy that is based on and kept alive by pseudo-animalistic behaviors and displays of power?
It is true that people don't get someone that has isolated themselves from society, but that does not even come close to pride or arrogance, rather as a neutral statement.
Why do monks take a celibate and retreat themselves into monasteries, interacting with the outside world and minimally as possible?

Stating that solitude through work is something to be seen as good and aimed for, is exactly the pride and arrogance you are accusing others of. You give up yourself, for the sake of a reward at the end of your work.
Someone like that has made no choice to be alone, solitude is a byproduct of their productivity, whereas someone who chooses solitude, made a conscious choice and will be able to live with the consequences of their choice.
Why can't there be no conscious isolation with success? Why must isolation come through being busy?
Because you lack perception, which is gained by losing something.

If people are just assholes to you for no reason (because you aren't "media attractive") then what's the point of getting involved in other people's lives?

>>6725842
man this is such a good post. haven't seen something this well made in /ic in years.

ironically, this is actually one of the reason's why the monk's in various religious sects used to isolate themselves from civilisation for so long, because mankind needed these individuals in order to understand where it was going wrong and to correct itself (without resorting to genocide, mind you).

makes you wonder how these kinds of thoughts were implemented though.. its one thing to have this insane awareness of the world and its another science trying to make use of said knowledge without people trying to kill you for discovering things that weren't supposed to be tapped into.

>>6725842
I understand the good points in isolation, but I feel like Sam Hyde was right about this stuff as its a very bad idea for "creative" type of people to be completely disattached too and be this off grid lumberjack guy.
I think the best option is always be cautious, suck in the positive energy, but always be mindful that even your "fans" can be just idiots who run after you because their personality is a wet fart or algorhythm at best as they have nothing going on in their lives.
Same goes for negative: the guy who insults you is probably not someone you want to listen to, but the guy who explains why he doesn't like certain things, is. The later is probably someone who you want to keep close to yourself, but these kind of people don't tend to socialize a lot and you need to attract them towards yourself. Or vice-versa.

I prefer to create in complete solitude, because I think the police wouldn't appreciate me flinging my wife out the window.

>>6752530
>Sam Hyde

>>6752575
>kero

>>6752579
frogposting is ancient, tourist

>>6752582
kys newfag

>>6752584
No u

>>6752464
Generally, if you want to understand something, you take a step back from it.
The same concept is applied very practically to art; you take a step back and observe the work in it's entirety, and it allows you to see if the picture needs betterments.
>>6752530
It depends what kind of creative you are.
There is a point for the artist to be involved in society and be social, if he creates illustrations, comics or critique/observations, but it is also good to be able to have the possibility to step back.
True isolation is entirely impossible, unless you go off the grid for good, but you should allow yourself to at least be able to withdraw and let your brain think and sort through your thoughts.
What does Sam Hyde do? He does highly satirical sketches, and that requires him to be aware and fully know about whatever he makes a sketch about.
In writing, you write what you know, because if you know what you are writing about, you can make it make sense to the person who will read what you write. Don't use fancy words you do not know the meaning of or cannot explain. Don't make up concepts or write about stuff you have figured out. You should get the point.
>but these kind of people don't tend to socialize a lot
And that has to do with the usual hostile reactions.
Maybe 1 of 1000 people will not be hostile, hence the risk isn't worth it. And someone who has chosen solitude, has no real or true "urge" to socialize.
>The guy who insults you is probably not someone you want to listen to, but the guy who explains why he doesn't like certain things, is.
Exactly. The insults are just noise you should ignore and filter out, and whoever takes their time to genuinely actually explain to you, means that they actually do care about what they say or the topic at hand.

>>6752619
cool monkeys. Your posts seem to be relatively insightful but you are so self absorbed in an unpleasantly autistic way because you are living how you do and I get that, having lived comfortably as a neet, uninterrupted for a decade+ previously, and had I been much younger I'd have swallowed up your shallow, undeveloped viewpoints. You are the one who lacks self awareness, you've gotten so lost to your own fart huffing that you don't realize you put the same restrictions on others as "they" presumably put on you. The truth is that you sound like someone who has no idea what they're talking about, because you sound too scared to actually interact and poke around in the world, to experiment or initiate any form of closer observation to see if any of your assumptions are even true; yet you preach anyway as if you know The Truth because you've put this holy gauze over it, idealizing your behavior to justify your supposed martyrdom as something bordering sacred and "merely sacrfifical by nature," as if it's as black and white as the thinking you supposedly so look down on. You're a coward and a charlatan. Any resistance you're met with is shut away with baseless presumption, but tell the thread how you're so enlightened because you've returned to monkey by smearing shit on the walls in your schizophrenic rambling. Monks retreat to study the works of others, including but not always limited to those of their predecessors, and brace themselves before coming back into society to test themselves against the thoughts and wills of the world, and it's there that society finds ways to improve. It isn't this glorious self imposed hyper-solation you seem to think it is. You're lost to yourself, it's masturbatory and blatant for all to see and that is why you feel you just aren't understood.

>>6749351
you're mistaking hatred for disgust, which happens to be plain as day to see on honest laymen

>>6752716
>>6727247
I am fairly certain you are not seeking a dialogue.

Why does every single fucking person require so much fucking attention to feel even an ounce of fucking value. Why can't they fucking value themselves? Why do I have to be there for them to feel like they aren't fucking suicidal? I fucking hate maintaining relationships. I wish I could fuck off for months and then reappear and nothing would be different than before. I can't keep giving away my attention because then I'll never be able to be productive towards the goals I want to achieve. Fuck everyone. Fuck people not knowing how to keep themselves company. Maybe this is because I was neglected growing up and spent my childhood all alone, but I am who I am and I need what I need. I wish there was a nice fucking way to tell people that they're stressing you out. I wish people wouldn't take it so fucking personally when you tell them that you can't fucking talk to them 24/7. Whatever dude. Honestly I'm never going to be okay with other people randomly messaging and expecting a reply back randomly. It's like I have to sit on the edge of my seat all day waiting for a QuickTime event. Why do other humans have to be the fucking thing that keeps the society functioning dude? I just want to be able to fucking engage with people on my own God damn terms. And not have the fucking guilt and shame of saying no 90% of the time when people ask me to do something. I might as well just fucking end it cause there's no fucking way I'll ever learn to be okay with being forced to half ass everything so my attention can be there for someone else. And the only way I can manage to fucking deal with the fucking annoyance that literally everyone in my life causes is by smoking huuuuge unhealthy amounts of weed. This life sucks.

yes, it helps a great deal to spend days inside alone grinding than being outside. A classmate once told me:”wow, ur work is awesome anon. When i didnt have alot of friends i had time to be creative too”, whatever im living my dream

Basically -
>socialize
>spend less time drawing

>draw
>spend less time socializing

It certainly did good to me art skills wise but having no friends at all online or offline is taking its toll on my mental health. I'm very depressed. It's not an art thing but just having no people to talk to except this place. I received 1 call on my birthday and it was a courtesy call. I would love to say "I don't give a shit" but the truth is that being completely isolated hurts you whether you like it or not.

>>6752530
This is what I was trying to get across. You need other people to succeed.
If you're a faggot who sucks and just copes with some bullshit "I succeeded in my own way/on my own terms" you're better off becoming a Buddhist or something and believing having nothing is the ultimate success.
It's a bit sad seeing these kids thinking being a loner faggot is cool (probably already have a lifetime of coping with loneliness) when they can actually grow and find success. It's so poisonous. The ultimate crab mentality.
It's like wine aunts telling young girls that men ain't shit and you're better off alone

>>6752619
I think the big key (and question) is that as artist's, we're kind of obliged to use our art for productive and helpful reasons to assist people even if they may not like the messaging.

I'm sure a majority of the artistically inclined people who hang around this site have really good insights and skills at hand to make amazing pieces of work, but the main issue is the price-tag of acquiring the means to getting such stuff out there, not to mention the security to prevent the bad actors from taking advantage of it and weaponising it for some dumb debatable culture war, is just making more and more artists fearful of doing the work they feel is important to 'them'. We don't even have real artistic platforms anymore and even when we did, we still had people stealing artwork and using it for already big-projects against their permission, so even then, that's still an uphill battle, not to mention the debate of 'creative licensing' being a thing. Where does that stuff even end and begin?

As it is, Artists 'are' creatives at the end of the day, whether they like it or not, and its not like we don't have to talk about all kinds of social issues or go out of our way to talk about what we believe in, because even with this new 'revolution' for the last 10 years you still have had good work made in isolation from outcasts and extroverted artists who still believe in these things, no matter where in the world they are.

I think the real main problem is that there has become too much baggage and expectations attached to even putting the pen to paper, and the expectation that we're all obligated to rag-tagging along with the limitations of expression forced on us.
That might suit people who can afford it, sure, but it means nothing to random artists that are trying to make their start and maybe even want to join these places and improve them. You're assumed a bad person before you can even prove yourself.

>>6747021
>Japanese do not give a fuck
ironically, that's part of the trend that is now getting less interesting from them.
they 'should' be showing interest in the world around them. they don't have to take part in it, but their media is getting so dull to look at because they don't care how it looks. might as well have their brains switched off.

>>6755127
>they 'should' be showing interest in the world around them.
Why when it's objectively worse?

>>6755139
making media 'about' the state of the world isn't the same as taking part 'in' it, anon. you know the west used to do their own cultural takes about different things in the world because they found it interesting without using it as a vehicle for subversion? sometimes people just find a tragedy an interesting thing to talk about, and Japan could do that to make interesting shit.

>>6755145
I think people idealize Japanese life and the reason why they have an epidemic of chronic shut-ins is probably that it's fucking unbearable to live there. The West is garbage right now but the most common interpersonal approach in East Asian countries is to put on a very thick mask to navigate a society that is largely based on face, formalities, saying the right thing to the right person and largely lying about everything. Things that are still looked down upon in the West (at least morally, Westerners aren't saints) like lying to people are commonplace. In many ways Western society is getting similar to East Asian society where you put on an entire persona outside of the internet. People are increasingly atomized.

>>6755169
maybe if we didn't all try to aim to be wannabe Asian's this wouldn't be happening. their media is good but I'm beginning to suspect their entertainment media carries that kind of resonance with it, that a lot of people in the world are buying into.
not to mention Japan has a pretty advanced system of technologies and has a lot of shrines for 'relaxation', and a culture orientated around work. it only makes sense that all those things would tick the boxes of career chasers in the West, but because you're not allowed to discuss the less cheery side of Japan in said detail, and like the stuff you've mentioned, everyone is carrying its baggage and problems too, despite how unhealthy a lot of it is.

But of course, because Japan loves its coom so much, none of it matters because hey, free coom right? Worked pretty well for those AI Art softwares...

>>6755169
>a society that is largely based on face, formalities, saying the right thing to the right person and largely lying about everything.
Sounds exactly like America

>>6755181
Western social problems are a detriment to the world
Japanese social problems are edgy and cool
Westerners are largely hypocritical though too, which is why they're a problem to the everyone else
Wolves in sheeps clothing
>hey we'll share some of our tech with you to help your infrastructure!
>if you abandon your culture and adopt our religious values, of course

>>6755199
tbf, Japan has a quasi-type of value thing going on over there too. its a lot more nuanced and largely peaceful, but the result is that all of its culture has to be 'peaceful' to the point its pretty tyrannical.
that kind of thing is definitely being adopted here in the West and taken advantage of for sure, especially in Silicon Valley.

>>6755204
They have words and concepts for it that Americans pretend don't exist
Example - honnemae and tatemae
Americans just think the way you are at work is the way you are with your family/friends etc

>>6746974
Because that's what anime has become too. The level of it isn't as pervasive and extreme as our pandering but it'll get there if nothing intervenes. It's still better, marginally, than our western stuff. But that's not very reassuring considering how low we've fallen

Imagine an isolated artist community that rejects normalfags of any kind

>>6748720
>Library (15 points)
>Art studio (10 points)
>Gourmet meals (10 points)
>Medical and psychiatric care (10 points)
>Sex toys (4 points)
>A deck of playing cards (1 point)
Gym would’ve been nice, but I think I can make makeshift dumbbells and barbells with the stuffs I’ve got.
Also I spent way more time thinking about this than I care to admit.

>>6725716
yeah, i only started drawing again when i stopped talking to my friends and focusing on my future. Just drawing, if you will. And it has improved my art and life a lot.

>>6757200
Based

>>6748720
The PC, the fast food and internet.

>>6752619
I can get the point he's coming from as Sam is the typical artsy-creative guy, and I think he has some interesting thing to say because this type of isolated-writing/art/whatever creative type of people are having trouble succeeding in life, because the things they do require long hours of working alone. Then comes the question: if I write or draw and no one sees it, what is its purpose?
It sounds really good to be this lone wolf who writes a masterpiece then fucks off with the money, but in reality this doesn't work. In fact most people are heavy consumers and not creators, who just want that constant content flowing.
I feel like the best option here is trying to make contacts with creators rathert than just consumers only. Especially if you want to learn to have a pseudo mentor too.
The echo chamber where people just say: "I love your stuff!" but don't engage in any form of conversation with you, is just exactly how a twitter artist farms likes. It surely helps because who doesn't love to see people liking what you do, but you need to look at it in a logical view, and that is that these are just consumers. You need them, but they are nowhere near on the level you need people who are creators and have similar interest s you.
Of course this breeds another problems since its not only hard to find them, but "our" kind doesn't tend to socialize a lot so it can cause awkwardness. I honestly wish I was less of a social autist who can talk to other creators or even make friends with them.

>>6757483
>Then comes the question: if I write or draw and no one sees it, what is its purpose?
That's the big question, but the answer is very simple and been repeated more times than needed; You draw, draw and draw some more.
Not everything you create has to be for the sake of being made public. The purpose is to create, first and foremost.
Money and all the other stuff should be treated as a consequence to your work, not the main reason for doing it.
Most of the art people see on the internet is not made to appeal to an audience to farm likes or get money, but those are rather consequences because it happens to appeal to an audience.
You would be right if we were talking regular jobs; "Why work if i'm not getting paid for this?"
But this is art; a useless and objectively unnatural activity you chose to do yourself.

The only ones who "need other people to succeed", will not make it when those other people leave them behind or in the worst case, they're they ones just using other people as stepping stones and want to hold everyone hostage until they can step up and leave everyone behind.
Grifters are a common occurrence nowadays because social media and the internet offers a chance of "making it big".
This circles back to the crab-in-a-bucket mentality; everyone keeps dragging everyone else down because they are only thinking of escaping themselves, but in return they get dragged down by the others, because of the same egotistical mentality.
>but "our" kind doesn't tend to socialize a lot
Because there is mostly demerit in socializing as an artist with other artist, giving how genuinely toxic and unnecessarily competitive the art community is, especially over the internet.

If you need consumers to make money, follow the demand.
Be professional about it and results will show.
All the tools and examples are freely available on the web. You just need use your brain and invest your time.
A mentor or networking aren't magical beings that will make it happen for you.

>>6757736
Me on the left

>>6758067
Me on the right :)

>>6759488
Cute Japanese girls don't post on 4chan let alone /ic/
>neither do monkies!
I'm literally a short fat nigger

>>6759574
>comparing black people to monkeys
Apologize to the monkeys.

>>6759574
>thinks :) is exclusively used by nips

are you old enough to be posting here to even know the history of the fucking smiley face

>>6725716
I was already isolated from society before I started drawing.

>>6759631
>the history of :)
enlighten us oldfag-sama

>>6759645
its not exclusively used by japs, for starters. its been around since the fucking 90s.
nips use emoticons like (^.^) or its derivatives.

shit like :), :O and :/ is more of a Western thing.

>>6759666
Are you a retarded chatbot or just autistic, blind and illiterate?
fucking newfagoot

>>6725716
Only if you practice. I just picked up a pencil for the first time in 8 months or so. I was drawing everyday, for hours and hours. I was drinking heavily and doing a lot of cocaine, so I would be drawing for 12+ hours sometimes. Then I lost myind and entered this crazy christian rehab cult, got the fuck out of that place and shit spiralled for a minute before I found myself in a secluded town in the woods. I look back at my last piece i was workin and holy shit is it a clustetfuck. Not horrible but nothing I'm necessarily proud of at this point iny life. I intend on drawing everyday for the foreseeable future. I will let you know how it goes ina woods practicing.

>>6759687
refute my point, /v fag, if you're such a genius.
or are you an astroturfing discord troon pretending to fit in?

>>6725716
Yes, but you don't choose to do it, you're forced upon it by your circumstances and personality traits.
And yes, it does alienate you from society and makes people seethe like in this very thread, if you become someone they can't relate to they will despise you, so you'll likely never fully come back into society.
You also don't really do it for the gains, you do it because you can't stand the outside world anymore, fuck I hate having to dance around the concept of art improvement, as if it was the only thing that mattered, man I hate this board, none of you progress obsessed retards ever get good anyway.
Going back to my cave have fun

>>6759704
Nigger, how do you go from
>i'm the girls on the left ;)))))))
to
>uhm akshually :) isn't exclusively used by nips
to
>uhm akshually emoticons have been around since the 90s
?
Emoticons haven't been a thing outside /b/ since 08 btw
Retarded ass turbo autismero
lurk moar

>>6759752
i was fucking bantering you dumbass. you're the one saying I was a "Cute Japanese girl" after I used the emoticon when it was a sarcastic throwaway comment.
but, i suppose American's have lost their sense of humour anyway so I can't fault you, especially if they think places like /b invented it.

>>6759902
>/b/ invented emoticons
>waaaah americans bad
What a fucking retard holy shit
gtfo my board, macaco

>>6759929
this level of intelligence is about average for an american larping as somebody outside of his country.
also, i legitimately believe that /v is your kind of alleyway judging by the intellectual capacity of your comments, since they also think posting stale memes and pokemon reaction images counts as banter.

>muh /v/
>muh american
>noooo not the pokemon smug img
>nooooo not the reaction img waaaah
>muh banter
>implying he can call whatever the fuck he's doing anything remotely resembling any kind of banter
You wouldn't know bants if some tribesmen from africa spit in your illiterate tourist faggot face, you dirty catfish eating basketball ape

>>6760037
you act all tough, but you're not willing to even (You) me like the tough based repilled redditor that you lurk as.
but you enjoy shitting out verbal diarrhea, so ill let you shit yourself to death all over /ic.

>acting tough over the internet is somehow a thing
>over text nonetheless
>wants a (you) that bad
Post something good then, epic 4channer.
If your next shit ain't good, you get no reply.

>>6760126

What do you mean by isolate? Does it mean no in person contact? Does it mean no social media contact? Because they're all different types of socialization. Isolate by society can be either total isolation from the real world while also meaning total isolation from the digital world.
On a serious answer, yes. It helps because it lets your inner judging voice speak out and assess your work objectively. Say, I post it here and I'll get a rating based not only on objective skill but also on people's tastes. Meanwhile total isolation negates objective skill (unless you have a good eye) and amps up your taste, letting you sraw solely because you want to draw whatever you want to.

Either way kill yourself OP for making such a vague thread

I'm a webcomic artist and don't have time to socialize even if I wanted to

>>6725716
yes, drawing and working out are my two favourite activities
social interaction doesnt hit anymore, especially if its a huge group of people
>too much energy in one room
>too many people talking at once

>>6725716
society isolated itself from me :(

>>6725842
>>6746953
>>6748852
>>6748896
>>6757483
>>6757736
Genuinely interesting and insightful conversations going on in this thread. I like this thread.