/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

What is the best construction method for a complete shitter to learn?

Is loomis any decent?

>>6725594
no

how do you guys decide who gets to make the new thread or when?

Might as well.

>>6725604
>decide
somebody just does it once the old thread is past bump limit

>>6725594
not you again.. I'm convinced you're a troll at this point number 3

Wanted to draw a pirate skeleton in the style of Mike Mignola. Still in sketching phase

gesture drawings, not sure if i’m doing this right

>>6725638
And now with shadows

>>6725642
This is considered to be more figure drawing. It’s based on a line of action rather than the “feeling of motion”. There are some good videos on YouTube that talk about the difference.

is vilppu really only good for soft squishy bodies or is that just a meme?

So far so good. I think I drew over my sketch three times by now, but I got rid of the thin squiggly lines for the most part and trying to vary the line thickness.

>>6725617
Good

>>6725669
soul

Latest pic
whilist the people telling me that i should kill myself for raping a good piece of artwork with weeb shit are right maybe some technical feedback telling me i should kill myself for failing at something would be appreciated too

>>6725679
feels like the values are drawing my eyes to the wrong place because the area with the grass(?) had the highest amount of contrast

also the colors seem muddy which may be because the hues and values are too similar or that you mixed the colors too much

Some 2-4 min figure drawings.

anatomy study, may do another one later

>>6725631
I'm not a troll
Just a bit stupid and a bit of a scaredy cat
I want to make things right

hellboy quickly done for my sister

am I hunter biden yet?

this shit aint as easy as it looks

thoughts?

>>6725743
head too big unless it's a mask (?) draw da arms
>>6725733
suffering from picrel
>>6725705
looking good

>>6725750
yeah I haven't studied shading and values yet but that makes sense

>>6725743
anon you have to feeel the form and use reference

>>6725750
thanks, it does look better with a smaller head. not feeling ready for arms yet

I don't feel like I'm feeling the form, any guidelines on what to focus on rn?

>>6725587
anybody else that keeps tweaking things like a retard even though you know you'll never be happy with it

Can anybody tell me what to do to make the composition better? the two balls on the top corners are supposed to be eyes. I don't think the values are good, they don't read well. Any advice? What value should the eyes be? I was thinking about just replacing the eyes with something else just to make the composition make more sense

A repost from the last thread

>>6725832
im sad there's no gun lolis

started adding base colors and it’s bothering me how animalistic his face looks, any advice?

did a study of Yuming_Li s art.
i feel like i learned a thing or too about fancy brushwork.

Hello beg. I call it done.

>>6725876
try using reference
>>6725831
breaking the symmetry some more? also it is way too abstract, cannot really tell what am i looking at
>>6725829
bottom middle thot is cute
>>6725802
i feel like i have the opposite problem where i disregard details too easily, very good coomable torso btw
>>6725775
to feel the form try doing this: drawing through
https://archive.org/details/Keys_to_Drawing/page/134
>>6725742
rotating things in your head is indeed very hard
>>6725720
that is... brilliant way how to study muscles. i kneel
>>6725695
not even real furry drawers make heads so animal like. thumbs up!
>>6725679
the water effect is okay. having everything blurry isnt. for example her head emerging from water should be crispy
>>6725617
it is missing vagina bones, otherwise its coomable

>>6725730
Do you have CSP? Just get some photos of models and trace over them with simple shapes, in csp you can turn the 3d model and learn how to "construct" a body from every angle

>>6725587
hand practice

>>6725904
>it is missing vagina bones, otherwise its coomable
That makes me wonder, at what point would a girl be fat enough for them to be hidden?

>>6725904
you finally moved on from infinite prespectove grinding and started practicing actual painting.
proud of you.

>>6725684
my guess is that i just painted everything with black and then put some color over it, sadly i have yet to understand how to use color, its either stuff like this or pastel bright stuff. I try to mix it sometimes but im a complete chimp tier with it
>>6725904
mhhm, i think the main culprit might be the brush i use, i still havent found one that replicates the ink strokes from those old kittelsen's and other 1800's drawings

thanks a lot anons, appreciate it

Am I starting to feel the form?

>>6725940
Sadly no

postit note sketch quick. definitely shouldve added some perspective on the gun.
anyone have any good resources on drawing guns, or should i just focus on studies of gun pictures?

>>6725913
nice hands
who's brushes are those?

>>6725970
It's over.

>>6725996
you just gotta draw the form more

>>6725990
thank you

These are the brushes

https://www.artstation.com/marketplace/p/zd78L/pencil-brushes-for-sketching-high-dpi

Airbrushed medium, turned out better than expected but was a bitch to do since I don’t usually freehand, will probably fix up the hair when I’m free tmrw

>>6725996
Feeling the form is a real thing and takes time to learn

>>6725587

my local pond

>>6725832
Is that Poppy?

>>6726086
I like how you drew a frame for the picture

I could use some critique on my basic linework for the background, I want my subject to be sitting on a building ledge but I can't get the perspective quite right

>>6725904
srs question, are you autistic

I was tired of drawing boxes and tried something different. It went horribly.
believe it or not, it was a real attempt to draw something

I feel like I polished a turd, but it's an improvement over my previous work, so I'll keep going.

>>6726159
cute!

high asf i just made a hamburger helper this shit taste like cargo pants

>>6726155
hey that's what my art used to look like

>>6725669
That's not too bad. A little messy but it's at least on the creative side

>>6725740
That's not an artist though. Are you trying to be the son of a fake politician?

if there's huston vs hampton... who is it vs vilppu?

>>6725650

Really cool anon. I don't get why no one replied to this.

Tryna do a foreshortened, "from the top" angle. Anyone got a ref for this?

>>6726086
Soul...

fleshed out this study a little more and i'm getting tired of looking at it, so i'm calling it done lol

I hope to finish it later

I've been messing with the face for a while now and it still looks off, any help?

The work of James Jean is just killing me. How to I even begin to learn making these beautiful, flowing, naturalistic lines? Is there a book or Video on some similar process?
He often uses naturals stuff like clouds, branches, leaves, wings, water splashes as almost abstract compositional elements, but they retain their convincing, 3D form. It's like I can't even come up with a single piece of cloud form as intricately beautiful as (for example) the cloud flowing form the characters mouth in picrel.

critique request

>>6725830
Cute

>>6725650
Cool. Great posing. Skeletal anatomy looks right to me. I like the lighting. Hope you'll finish this one

>>6725743
Good stuff, I like the form of the horns. Boobs look bolted on.

>>6725913
>>6726069
Really good work.

>>6726398
Idk, try flipping the canvas horizontally? That always helps.

>>6726405
Construction / placement of the features looks good to me. Lighting pattern on the right side is weird, why would there be a non-lit stripe form top to bottom?

>>6726445
golly

i’m so FUCKING sick of medsmap skulls!!!

>>6726461
What how many skulls are you doing?

>>6726468
right now i’ve done 10 and need to do 8 more for lesson 4

>>6726475
Just do however many you want man you can always return and do more.

>>6726487
yeah. you’re right :) .

>>6726445
O.O

How does light fall off work if the light is not white?

some longer figures for a change

What the fuck is Hampton talking about here?

>example image shows a bunch of long rectangles wrapping around the ribcage
>shape description: "an egg with three legs"

Did he put the wrong description here or something? What he's written seems to be totally unrelated to the example.

>>6726771
this video has a decent explanation of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go2dDrWxuDE

The serratus is covered up by other muscles, except the three fingers that attach along the ribs. since it is covered up, you can only roughly see it's form which is egg/sphere like. it's egg/sphere like because it wraps around the rib cage. where it's not covered up, you can see the 3 legs/claws (although it has more, but you can't see those ones). he explained it better in his CGMA video course. if i remember right, he called it a bear claw as a way to help remember it's form.

unless they are well muscled and decently lean, it's not parasitically noticeable, other than the serrations. so its not the biggest deal if you just use a egg shape to show it's more subtle form on skinny people.

>>6726828
particularly* noticeable, dang auto correct

>>6726771
the upper right pic is an egg with 2 legs waiting for the third leg (the right arm)

how do the color and composition look on this?

>>6726884
silhouette is unclear and it feels unnatural how flat the left side of the body is

i’m guessing it’s what you were going for but it didn’t turn out that well

HOLY FUCKING SHIT WHY AM I SO LAZY AND DEPRESSED FUCKKKKKKK WHY CAN'T I BE JUST NORMAAAAL REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Pushed this a bit more on rendering scale but it gets a bit boring after a while

>>6725876
progress rendering

>>6726954
Good fuckin shit anon. That hand looks juicy

>>6726590
nice anon
i just don't like blurriness on the lower right figure

>>6726966
What can I say, i like thick meaty hands

>>6725658
That is absolutely gesture drawing. There isn't one set method for doing it.

>>6725658
>It’s based on a line of action rather than the “feeling of motion”.
>There are some good videos on YouTube that talk about the difference
You mind linking a few? I thought those were the same thing.

how do i go from beg to int fast? is the david finch roadmap worthwhile? pyw if you've done the david finch roadmap thing pls

>>6726043
Learn what values are. This looks like a child's drawing.

>>6726590
Good shit.

>>6727120
>how do i go from beg to int fast?
You don't.

>>6726960
im just gonna consider this done because i can’t stare at the wonky looking face anymore

i do like the colors that i used though

Hi.
What are you guys doing today?

how do I feel the form

>>6727185
Procrastinating/ getting distracted instead drawing and studying.

>>6727210
Hi yesterday me, current me, and future me

>>6727218
Hello me, it's me again.

>>6726954
Canada man I kneel

>>6727210
So let's draw, my friend.

Not too sure how retarded this question might be but how do you "copy" another artists' art/ do master studies? Since when I hear "Copy your favourite artists" I'm clueless to what that's supposed to means and how to do it.
I don't have a problem when it comes to what artists I want to copy, it's just knowing the process of how to copy their art which is the problem, tried to find videos on this topic before, but I couldn't find anything good.
Would appreciate any help with this

>>6727235
Well shit, yeah you're right. Should at least do some homework from the dynamic sketching thing I've been watching.
Plus, I've been trying to do this drawing for a while now, will probably turn out pretty badly but I've been enjoying the game which I'm basing my drawing off of and I wanted to get something out
>>6727218
Yeah, and (you) need to get drawing too

>>6727240
>take drawing you like
>find timelapse it exists to get an idea of how the artist gets that look (optional)
>sketch what you see
>lineart (optional depending on the style you’re going for)
>colors (you can color pick if you want)
>shading
>paint over/render (obviously only if you’re going for that style)

but processes vary

there isn’t a lot of good resources about doing that out there to be honest, if you like drawing anime girls then there’s tppo’s videos where he breaks down the studies he does

>>6727240
you should watch the david finch master study streams on YouTube

>>6727240
right after i read this post i went on youtube and saw this video so maybe it’s destiny or something

https://youtu.be/VDnJ2nFeWTg

wait what did I fuck up here? the box rotated completely, it tapers towards +y instead of -z

only thing I changed was the vanishing points sliding I think? like I shortened east way more than I shortened west?

>>6727263
Ok, I think I get it a bit now that you told me the general game plan of how to copy something, but there's one more thing I'm not understanding.
When it comes to copying, do I just do it freehand and use the artist's art as a direct references or do I use a method similar to Krenz when he talks about copying for exercises (https://youtu.be/kbKqIJcIUCw)) e.g. Just chuck a bunch of lines over it and feel out the strokes. I understand this question only really effects copying the lineart but I still feel like I should ask just in case.
>>6727271
It's been quite a while since I've watched David finch, will make sure to give his artist study (which I'm assuming is his master study stuff) a watch when I get the chance
>>6727275
Well damn, yeah I guess it was fated to be, will definitely watch this video when I have a moment
Thank you for all the help

What's the best way to go about studying color and light? Life drawings?

>>6727294
still lifes probably

>>6725829
no particular reason I can think of but I love this little goober. Im assuming shes a ghost too.

Let me preface by saying that, yes.
I am retarded

Now. How do I study loomis?
Do I have to just read and understand what he says or can I just copy the pictures?

This doesn't seem retard friendly...

Am I feeling the form yet?

>>6727330
I kinda feel like I should stop trying to do the shadow and highlight stuff until I have a better idea of what I’m doing with rendering. But do the wireframes look okay?

>>6727279
A few things:
Started ignoring your vp, made your back corner fucked.
Your vertical lines became unparallel . Lines on the horizon line don’t really converge. If they did the part below the horizon line would converge down and the part above would converge up, giving you weird ass curved lines.
When you bust out the ruler/have lots of pretty straight lines even slight mistakes make stuff feel off.

>>6725364
Not him (I'm this guy >>6724525), but thank you Anon
I know it looks shit and it isn't the full rock since i fucked up with the rock placement on the paper sheet, but it was fun to draw and i think i can start drawing daily again

>>6727283
>use it as a reference or use krenz?

honestly up to you, if you don’t care as much about the proportions then you can probably just use it as a reference but if you want more accuracy then use krenz

you might as well even trace if you don’t care too much about the proportions an artist uses and just want to use their shading/coloring/rendering/lineart

>>6727330
anon… is that a penis i see…

>>6724525
>Should i really start with this one? Or is there a better book to start with?
I found one of his other books, Figure Drawing - For All it's Worth, to be much better.

>>6727333
nah but I slid the VP left to indicate rotation (leftmost red cross)
also green lines are actually parallel it's an illusion because I tilted the photo

I dunno I think it's a foreshortening issue because I slid the west VP like 1cm and east "invisible" VP like 3cm

>>6727338
It wasn’t supposed to be… I was just trying to make two lumpy things mush together and fuse. But… I can see the resemblance. Now it bothers me.

Actually, no. I have decided it’s actually a peanut with a huge ass.

>>6727330
>>6727331
It looks like you have an understanding of what feeling the form is.

>>6727330
>dick and balls with a condom next to it
>>6727331
>donut with a shaft through it
lewd dewd

>>6727343
more like 5 actually im retarded

tried my first dynamic pose today,I have no idea what to do with the shoulders

>>6727337
Ah ok, in that case I might attempt to incorporate a bit of Krenz into studies then since I seem to have proportion and I have trouble with making my drawings bigger than my references. But I might only do that for studies of simpler drawings at the moment.
Thank you again for the help

>>6727352
Anon your biggest problem is your lines not converging going back. Did this on my phone so it looks like crap but simplified it. These 2 lines should converge on the horizon line to a point, they don’t come close. Your vp choice is not the biggest issue here

Warm up

>>6725996
Don't give up

Whenever I try to practice digitally, I spend way too much time messing with settings.
Can someone suggest some settings I can force myself to stick to, that are still versatile enough, until I get more practice in?
Similar to practicing trad painting, but only buying like 4-5 brushes tops, a pencil, pen, and 1 size of paper/canvas.
I'm mostly using Clip Studio, and I mean like exact Resolution/DPI for the canvas, size of the brush, which brush for which purpose, opacity if applicable, etc
I do want to still practice Sketches, Line Art, and Painting.

Maybe this is better suited for the stupid questions thread..

>>6727366
I fixed it but the problem remains, it's as if the box rotated 90° right (in its own referential)
it's probably the back face being too large but idgi
imma try again on the other side and see if I can solve it

Colors and vibe feel so off but I'm not sure how to fix it. Any color anons have an idea?
Any other crit welcome too

>>6727339
Thanks mate, i'll give it a go

>>6727374
I don't know if there are preset canvas sizes in csp but I usually go with A3 size and for brushes, I know the basic hard round brush is basically a meme here but it does pretty much everything you need, just turn on pen pressure for opacity and that's it.

>>6727378

>>6727382
I'm okay with it being basically a meme, as long as it's "good enough", because this is just to remove options so I practice without thinking about the tool as much. Of course I'll expand more once I have a real need for it.
But I also want to use a brush with pen pressure for size for line art probably, right?
I haven't actually tried pen pressure for opacity so that's a good call and I wasn't thinking of that type of setting.

Maybe there's some courses for digital that cover this? I'm mostly following trad courses and I just want to get fundamentals down before I worry too much, but in digital my choices keep feeling "wrong" and I feel I'm blaming that for the result more than I do with trad.

is using stablization cheating?

>>6727402
no just don't crank it up too far

>>6727402
Just make sure you're not relying on it too much if you also want the skills to translate outside of digital work. If you only want to do digital, then who cares as long as it looks good.

On page 17 of bridgeman, 1st pass. Screwed up the bottom right drawing but happy with the rest of them.

>>6727411
yeah it looks fine, bottom right aint too bad down to the pelvis
I struggle with legs too, gonna grind them soon

Why isn't /ic/ & /beg/ more friendly towards marc brunet? His videos are really helpful, especially this one about the science of learning art

https://youtu.be/Tl0NKYVwYJs

is this sketch shit or just alright?

>>6727416
it's shit sorry
but keep it as concept to improve it on the road

>>6727411
damn even on trad...i hope I can get to your level one day, absolutely gonna make it

>>6727421
Yeah i guessed so I haven't drawn in a long time so I'm still trying to improve.

>>6727429
the handle isn't even parallel to the blade
use reference and set up bigger goals for yourself
study Dodson maybe

this is all i can do

Trying to practice feeling the form more

>>6727279
Nigga just use a ruler lmao dead srs

>>6727347
That… was not my intention.
>I’m subconsciously producing lewds
fuck
>>6727346
Great! That’s a relief to hear.

Now that I’ve got a rudimentary understanding of how to Feel The Form, what do I do next? I’ve basically been just focusing on that.

So last chapter of the book is about the basics of drawing. This should have been chapter 1, not 12 lmao.

>>6727451
you drew cube in isometric projection which is exactly what you want to avoid in drawing because its inaccurate and breaks your forms
>>6727402
worse: it is crippling you in the long term. instead of training your hand to get precise you are relying on algorithm which is fucking up shapes of your curves. not to mention the delay / lag it introduces
>>6727374
canvas 4000x4000, hard round brush, pressure either changes thickness of line or its opacity, 2 layers (1 is lineart / sketch, 2nd is render one), no undo, no items, fox only, final destination
>>6727294
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8384010-color-and-light
>>6726954
very cool
>>6726947
normal people dont draw anon. channel your depression into canvas. if you will do it right your pieces will OOZE thick SOUL with depression. remember: the more deranged drawer the better art
>>6726445
you just know
>>6726405
finish your stuff before asking for crit
>>6726398
looks okay to me
>>6726308
booba
>>6726230
there is none. master vilppu is sitting alone on the mountain of teaching art. all current art titans studied under him. it was him who taught disney wagies how to draw
>>6726163
i kneel
>>6726159
push values harder, the greater the lighting the greater the contrast between light and casted shades
>>6725917
when you are going for the coomer audience you want to include every single coomer body landmark no matter what
>>6725921
nah i just got comm for the project so i did that and now i ran out so its time for more autism in perspective

>>6727512
Feel the form....in perspective?

>>6727506
yeah I figured eventually

>>6727539
Hm. Okay. Basically this, then?

3rd week beg

>>6727548
Yes but I wouldn't draw random shapes I would draw real life stuff.

>>6725886
woah!
dreamy

>>6727522
>you drew cube in isometric projection which is exactly what you want to avoid in drawing because its inaccurate and breaks your forms
i.. uh....
well, clearly i must work on observation because i drew from a real life cube that i have.
I also gotta work on drawing anything that isnt a cube.

How does this study look? The left side was done with color from the get go while the right side is a gradient-mapped version of the left so that it looks closer to the reference.

>>6727597
Goddamnit, I didn't notice the cast shadow before I posted...

>>6727471
mon dieu… never seen the form so FELT before

>>6727550
gold star, it made me smile

Day 25 22 min I think I'm forming a habit

https://youtu.be/0tHLh7mO7uk?list=PLTY4AtphBe8PSqfXT4qfxwdbLgSK0XZ9v

>>6727522
gonna ask this again, are you autistic?

>>6727641
that slug has no business having ass like that

>>6727650
I really want to use something like this as a base because it feels like something I can understand compared to others. But even in beginner videos like this, I think they expect me to know more than what I know and I'm not there yet.

Like knowing which shapes to use and how to manipulate them to get the angle you're aiming for.

>>6727424
WAGMI brother, just keep drawing

>>6727650
i feel like a thicker brush would help you. It will reduce getting caught up in little folds and creases that aren't super necessary at this stage. try it out maybe

>>6727565
>real life stuff
I decided to embrace the lewd

Practicing color. I like it

I don't know desu

>>6727897
I don’t know what that is

>>6727299
Cute drawing thank you anon (and yes she is a ghost)

>low spatial iq
it is over

drawing a tank from reference image
rate me in low, mid and high beg
i love krita
but i made top part a bit too long

>>6728021
the tank in question
i used to trace photos but now i am copying photos

>>6727897
>>6727925
>He doesn't recognize a vagina when he sees one.
Fag.

>>6727126
>>6726978
Thanks.
>i just don't like blurriness on the lower right figure
Yeah, trying out smoother brushes but I definitely overworked that one. Gotta force some harder edges when working with a softer brush.

Some 10-20 minute portraits.

>>6728051
Cool studies

Need crit for the light

still don't understand how to draw the figure from this angle

>>6728051
Nice.
You should define hard edges and outlines more decisively.
Good studies anon.

>>6728051
Top left looks like a burn victim

>>6727401
and yes of course you want pen pressure for size as well
ctrl+paint has a lot of decent beginner digital drawing/painting tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/@ctrlpainter/playlists

Want to draw Loba for coom purposes. Tried using renders as a reference. Hated how it looked when i tried to draw it accurate to the render. Tried stylizing.

>>6728037
I don’t think you’ve ever seen a vagina. That’s not how it looks.

>>6728058
Thank you.

>>6728087
Yeah, tried to keep that in mind for these longer ones.

>>6728093
>Top left looks like a burn victim
Yep, my bad on that one. Values too patchy and high contrast.

>>6728119
Please stop digging yourself deeper. Its literally just a panty shot. The underwear is just wedged between the labia majora while still covering the labia minora. It could be more textured to indicate the slit or clitoris but Jesus christ you can't be this virgin on an orange board.

>>6728021
pre-beg, keys to drawing

still having a hard time painting clothes, but I think it’s getting better. Thoughts and paintovers appreciated

Should have tried morpho sooner. It's more simple than Vilppu and Loomis, though the former teaches you how to simple forms better.

>>6728224
Arms seem a bit long.
I agree on morpho, I like the way he draws.
But I'd recommend Hampton first.

>>6728225
I tried Hampton first, but he was too much for me at the time. Anon said, it's better to learn proper anatomy first before going for design aspect Hampton teaches. So I wasted time on learning a bit of anatomy instead, which went nowhere since I couldn't even reliably rotate cube in space (still tricky), and did simple mannequins instead.
So far morpho look like a decent way to bridge the gap between simple gesture/oval man/cubic mannequin and a semi-realistic figure.

Lanterns. Light.

>>6682758
I was trying to do a just a quick sketchy drawing but in the end it came out cleaner than my previous drawings and it also took me a load of time, I need to rediscover how to be a sketchcel
>>6728137
is that o-ren ishii im seeing? What's with the recent reemergence of kill bill?
>>6728059
comforting colors
>>6727922
so what is himeno saying
>>6727330
formtastic

>>6682758
I was trying to do a just a quick sketchy drawing but in the end it came out cleaner than my previous drawings and it also took me a load of time, I need to rediscover how to be a sketchcel
Also When the girl's left arm gets overlayed by the guy's it looks weird and out of place, dunno how to fix that
>>6728137
is that o-ren ishii im seeing? What's with the recent reemergence of kill bill?
>>6728059
comforting colors
>>6727922
so what is himeno saying
>>6727330
formtastic

>>6728119
https://i.redd.it [slash] 93p9y15y9n671.jpg Here’s the reference I used.
>>6728143
>could be more textured to indicate the slit or clitoris
Hm, yes… I see, thank you. It wasn’t on the reference but it would make things clearer.
>>6728224
>>6728235
Huh, looks good and makes sense. I might give that a shot.
>>6728311
>formtastic
Thanks, Anon!

>>6728311
that's fucking disgusting anon what is wrong with you

Kaworu's terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day

>>6728337
purple nazi man should kill all of them

>>6728311
That’s very disturbing, good job.

I’m too /beg/ to do a proper redline but here’s what I can see is wrong. It looks like her upper arm and her forearm come from two different poses, so there’s a disconnect. It kinda looks like you subconsciously wanted to have her forearm visible, so it ended up awkwardly disjointed.

I think you did pretty good with the body language and expressions, they really convey a weird, vaguely lusty sort of predator/prey scenario.

I think I messed up the leg placement but how's everything else

>>6728335
are you trying to make me blush?
>>6728388
maybe but this is what it looks like under the hood, i dont think there's a disconnect just some kind of optical illusion happens because of the overlap
Posing the arm differently like you suggest would DEFINITELY fix the problem but yeah that's an entire new arm I have to draw... and it has to be fixed to the guy's arm instead of letting it be whenever (inverse kinematics)

>>6727550
I lel'd

>>6725587
Can I learn art in 20 minutes a day? How do you study, practice, and look at art with that small amount of time? Thanks for any advice, plz send halp

>>6725669
I remember this TV show

>>6728422
yes download stable diffusion

my fucking nib broke when i was trying to colour this shit

Octopuses (octopi?) are weird man

>>6728515
love those little aliens

Holy fook I’ve finally cracked how to paint noses

Resumed my beg journey after a two year hiatus. Currently starting out with Drawing for Absolute and Utter beginners. Already sick and tired of this bullshit. The instruction in there seem pretty retarded and i do visibly worse when following them but what do i know. I guess i'm just gonna have to trust the process and bear through with it.
I also gotta stop breaking my pencils in frustration because drawing with a mini-sized one is much less pleasant than doing it with a normal one.

>>6728515
octopussies

>>6728526
On another note. I'm gonna need someone to spoonfeed me on how exactly you're supposed to hold a pencil.
I don't do well when doing the whole arm/elbow movements, my aim gets too loose and i just end up with a buncha loose lines. When i try to resort to my natural method of just gripping it tightly with the hand i lack finese necessary to make fluid stuff happen. How do i fix that?

First time drawer, Did that Picasso's Igor Stravinsky exercise from the sticky with a stabilized mouse. Just tell me how bad I botched it.

first digital paint

>>6728562
Bro did you even look at th-
>stabilized mouse
Never mind. Why though? You're not really gaining anything by doing this with a mouse. Just do it on paper.

>>6728573
I've heard transferring from paper to digital is a real pain. So might as well get it out of the way, plus I don't have a scanner or a tablet.

>>6728562
overlay it yourself lazy ass nigga

I drew chris-chan as bridget.

>>6728583
But isn't that tracing? The exact opposite of what you're supposed to do.

>>6728588
They’re telling you to overlay it to compare how off you are from the original

>>6728582
>I've heard transferring from paper to digital is a real pain.
Honestly a load of bull. The only thing that takes 'some' getting used to is the hand-eye coordination if you get a non-screen tablet, which you get used to real quick. (you're doing that already with your mouse anyway)
Unless for some reason you want to keep drawing with a mouse I'd suggest either stick to paper or switch to a tablet when/if you buy one.

>>6728588
Ok, I see what you mean. Holy shit I horrible

>>6728592
I'd rather not use paper though.

>>6728562
You drew it upside down you retard

>>6728600
>I'd rather not use paper though.
why

>>6728600
First off you're drawing with a mouse stop doing that retard, second IT IS JUST MENT TO GET RETARDS WHO THINK THEY CAN'T DRAW TO DRAW SOMETHING THAT RESEMBLES A REAL THING IT IS NOT MENT TO BE A 1 TO 1 COPY RETARD.

>>6728601
The sticky said to draw it upside down.

>>6728533
>>6728526
Yeah i'm thinkin its time to quit.
This doesn't even feel good or is fun. Why do i bother

>>6728613

>>6728604
I can work in secret on a laptop and do have to worry about my nosy judgmental family, ok. I do have a scanner but that would alert them.

>>6728618
>>6728613
It's because you're drawing in order to be good try instead to get better because you're drawing.

>>6728623
My goal is to get better. I just never noticed any improvement even when i used to practice somewhat regularly two years ago.
My logic is that obviously certain people just naturally aren't cut out for certain things. I mean proof of that is literally everywhere in any field. Even since the elementary you can see that certain kids are better at math than others. So why wouldn't drawing be the same way and why wouldn't i be just doomed to be bad forever because of lack of predispositions. There's no reason why that couldn't be the case.

>>6728630
Because someone who makes it draws the same owl you did and then goes "hmm I wonder why this looks like shit, let's figure it out" and someone who doesn't make it sounds like you.

>>6728613
Okay bye.

>>6728422
I just find more time.
>Do studies at work during lunch break by stealing the UI design team's tablet
>stopped watching anime I know sucks ass since episode 2 because some sperg insists it gets good at episode 26 (just read the manga if I feel the sperg might actually be right, also study random panels if I feel like it)
>Decide MMOs are cringe
>Decide most TV series suck and there's maybe two worth watching a year
>work out and eat healthier to sleep less while being as rested


I wouldn't say this made me better at this thing but you can easily find two hours a day you're already wasting on stupid things and waste them on drawing instead.

>>6728633
well i mean the original owl is also supposed to look nnot great specifically in order to not throw beginners who copy it off.
Mine isn't so bad when compared to the original i just fucked up the legs. For some reason whenever i copy stuff i get the first half good and then fuck up the distance between the second half and the first one which then breaks the whole thing.
I don't think i'm capable of self-critique and examination of the end result as well as any given other fellow is desu. I just don't think that way.

My main issue as of right now though is that even holding a pencil feels very wrong and unpleasant. For some reason i need to put a lot more pressure onto it with my index finger to achieve any sort of precision. It starts to hurt a little bit in a very short time.
I think i may be just physically incapable. My penmanship was always shit ever since i was a wee kid
Do provide some insight as to >>6728533 if you're able to though. Much appreciated in advnace.

>>6728643
*has always been shit
Damn not only can i not draw i also seemingly can't speak english despite actively learning it for the past twelve years. Great.

>>6728643
Hold the pen in a way that is comfortable, it is really that simple, also don't deathgrip it(most begs hold the pencil so hard that their hands and fingers start to hurt.
>"For some reason whenever i copy stuff i get the first half good and then fuck up the distance between the second half and the first one which then breaks the whole thing"
Figure out the reason, drawing is as much puzzle solving as it is muscle memory.

>>6728648
>Hold the pen in a way that is comfortable, it is really that simple, also don't deathgrip it(most begs hold the pencil so hard that their hands and fingers start to hurt.
I've never had a comfortable pen holding position due to the way my index finger works. As i've said i may be just fucking disabled in a very minor yet substantial manner.
I have to deathgrip it in order to get any sort of precision going. Otherwise it all gets too loose to draw reasonably anything.


>Figure out the reason, drawing is as much puzzle solving as it is muscle memory.
Easier said than done but if i had to guess its probably literally just because i lack the experience and it'll improve if i copydraw enough stuff.

>>6728654
Okay, I'll give you the verdict you have an ngmi attitude and you're here wasting your time.

>>6728623
I… I think I have this problem. I feel like I’m more interested in LEARNING to draw than I am in ACTUALLY drawing anything in particular.

I wonder if I can’t think of anything I actually really want to draw because I’m subconsciously afraid of attempting it because I think it’ll suck, or if I genuinely just don’t have any desire to draw stuff…

Like, if I were at a satisfactorily high level of skill (whatever level that would be) to KNOW I could draw anything I could think of AND like the output, would I really not be able to think of anything?

Maybe “What do I feel like drawing?” Or “What do I want to draw?” Or “Why did I start drawing to begin with?” Are the wrong questions… or at least are incomplete questions.

Maybe the better question is “What would I draw if I were an amazing artist?” Or “What would I draw if I knew it would come out perfect every time?”

>>6728659
But i do wanna get good. I'm just very fearful that i will not be able to.
I don't mind wasting my time since its worth fucking nothing. If i won't try and get good at drawing i'll literally spend those hours jacking off to futa ntr and binge-watching Family Guy an American Dad
I have nothing to lose by trying really. I'd just like to have some assurance that i'm actually capable of getting better as opposed to just making ass of myself by trying.

>>6728666
Yeah that's your problem, you want to get good.
Ask anyone good and they'll tell you they just want to draw. See the difference?

>>6728670
Doesn't change the fact that i still do want to get good. What the fuck am i supposed to do now? I can't brainwash myself. I have a few things that i'd like to draw but i literally could not at my current skill level.
Again that advice just tells me that i should shoot myself in the head with six 38. caliber bullets in a quick sucession.

>>6728673
Okay I'll break it down for you
>"I want to get good at drawing"
Ngmi attitude, entitled, rarely puts in any work, expects instant results, leads to frustration.
>"I want to draw"
Gmi attitude, enjoys drawing for what it is currently and will be in the future, enjoyment of drawing leads to wanting to improve(Unless autist drawing shit sonic comics) Improving leads to more enjoyment of drawing, it's a good cycle my dude. >Enjoys drawing > Wants to improve > Does research and practice to improve > Improve > Enjoys drawing even more > Repeat. Your cycle is >Wants to be good > Can't draw > Frustrated > Still can't draw > Gives up > Resentment.

>>6728670
I think the people who "just want to draw" are just people who have been doing it since age 4 and have never stopped since. So by the time they are conscious they've already had 10+ years of practice behind them.
It is impossible to enjoy drawing if you have a skillset of a disabled five year old as a grown man.

>>6727330
>>6727331
how, I can't even draw a ribbon that turns in space

>>6728670
You’re a fucking idiot and a twat bro. Everyone wants to be good.

>>6728690
I'll refer you to my other post >>6728689

>>6728689
Ok how do i fucking magically change my attitude? If i had the ability to just pick and choose the way i think about stuff i'd just choose to receive exhilerating joy from breathing and then do nothing else.

Besides, if wanting to get good is an ngmi attitude why the fuck is there a ton of books aimed at beginners and meant to increase their skill level? Presumably those who are gonna make it have no need for those things since they don't need to increase their skill level to enjoy drawing, and yet there's a market for that.
I think you're just lying to me and that it is possible to get good at stuff if you end goal is to get good at it. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW I'M JUST SOME SHMUCK WHO CAN'T DO NOTHING

>>6728693
Sure you can want to be good, but if your starting point is I want to be good at drawing and not I enjoy drawing then you're ngmi.

>>6728698
Idk I'm not your therapist, but I believe talent is just whatever someone enjoys doing. Of course you're gonna be worse at drawing than someone who enjoys doing it. So you'll quit and call the person who enjoys it talented.

I mean the big and main question is still just: How do i change my attitude so that i can make it?
Because from what you're telling me i sumrise that i'll just keep shitting the bed till [SOMETHING] comes along and allows me to receive joy from putting out shit pieces such as >>6728618

I really just don't get how is any of that information supposed to help me with the issue at hand

>>6728702
Again that's pretty useless to me.
You've just told me that i'm not gonna make it because i have a suboptimal attitude and when i asked you what to do about that you just went "uhhhh, i dunno bro, sorsies"
like damn what's the point of wisdom that benefits no one

>>6728703
I just think people with your mindset are doomed to be permabegs forever, doubt it can be changed, like I hate playing hockey, no amount of forcing myself to play it will make me enjoy it.

Also if the point of life is to just do stuff taht you enjoy and nothing else then why would anyone do anything but Heroin and buttsex.

There has got to be a way to achieve results through an unpleasant or otherwise tiring process. I just don't buy it that dopamine has got to be shooting off all the time whenever you try to develop a skill or otherwise its ngmi

>>6728700
You said “ask anyone good, and they’ll say they just wanna draw”. You’re already talking about someone who is subjectively good. As a mid level artist, of course I want to be good. I’m not doing this to not improve.

I get what you’re getting at, but don’t make it seem like people just aren’t trying to get good lol. Also not OP if that’s not obvious

Coloring takes forever, now I know why it's important to have finished pieces

>>6728709
Cool so your advice just boils down to: Yeah i guess you're never gonna do anything

Go fucking shit yourself dude holy fuck

>>6728714
You're missing my point. Of course everyone wants to improve (unless retard autist drawing sonic comics). But if you don't even enjoy drawing and you're only doing it in order to be good you'll be stuck in a shit cycle forever.

>>6728716
Yeah, you made a post about how you were gonna resume your journey after a two year hiatus you were already bitter in your original post then one hour later you post about how you're gonna quit, saying it isn't fun. Looking for pity or what? Go fuck yourself.

>>6728717
I enjoy the physical sensation of flailing around with a pen. However if my end goal in anything was pleasure then i would just stay home and goon to shitty captions about a musclemommy futa fucking my gf bareback raw.

My point being is that no one accomplishes impressive things just because they bring pleasure to the creators. I think you can enjoy the struggle in a weird little way but i also think that learning any skill is a mechanical task which can be accomplished regardless of the mental state.
Because as i've said otherwise if my endgoal is pleasure then i will just spend my days snorting speed and watching family guy comps

Begs eating eachother alive
/thread

free (you) to whoever can identify the characters

>>6728723
Bob and Stevo obviously

>>6728719
yeah you're right my attitude has been skewed from the get go.
I do have an actual and important inquiry in regards to how you're supposed to hold a pencil in a comfortable manner and i didn't really et a satysfying answer for that but oh well.
I'm still gonna try to get good. I don't know if i enjoy it but i get an itch to get back to it whenever i quit so i guess that's something idk

>>6728721
>Enjoy drawing
>Enjoy improving at drawing
if none apply go rope yourself.

>>6728734
>Enjoy improving at drawing
Have yet to visibly improve in any regard.
As i've said i somewhat enjoy the physical task of just running the pencil around a page. I just don't think that pleasure should be the endgoal because otherwise why wouldn't you do literally anything else that's more pleasurable and requires less effort and prep.

>>6728703
is that dino at least any good for a beg person or nay

>>6728736
How many hours have you spent drawing today?
This week?
This year?
How many of those hours were uninterrupted, no youtube, tv in background etc?
How many hours did you then spend trying to improve, researching, studying etc?

>>6728729
rock on

>>6728741
>How many hours have you spent drawing today?
One hour, just getting back into the groove of things. Don't judge pls.
I've done probably less than fifty full hours of practice total even when i was at my peak of a few hours every day with Lewis.
>>6728741
Very few. My peak was two years ago.
>>6728741
>How many hours did you then spend trying to improve, researching, studying etc?
Most of them. I rarely draw "for fun' because i find my skill level too lacking to draw anything of substance and satisfaction. I've tried before but did not suceed.


I dunno what to tell you man i'll just try with Drawing for Aboslute and Utter Beginners and get back to you with results.
I gotta get more than an hour in tomorrow. Slow and steady wins the race small steps to the finish line etc.

>>6728747
So less than fifty full hours of practice, self taught I assume so those hours are probably not very productive. Where is the improvement supposed to have come from? You've barely worked.

>>6728752
>So less than fifty full hours of practice, self taught I assume so those hours are probably not very productive. Where is the improvement supposed to have come from? You've barely worked.
I've got nothing to my defence aside from some meme shit like depression. An intensive drawing course is gonna be taking place in a nearby city in around a month. I've been thinking about signing up but i'm a social sperg on the account of going fully hermit mode at age thirteen and keeping that lifestyle up till the age of eighteen as of now.
I feel like if i do enroll i'm just gonna waste time money and embarass myself in front of cool art people.
I did do give up last time years ago because one of my as of then online pals got into drawing as a hobby and instantenously mogged me who was doing paid online courses and old-timey books which just killed my motivation and sent me on a self-hate spiral
I also lack work ethic idk if i can just power through that one but i will try starting tomorrow.

Worst case scenario nothing will change which is just equilibrium no gain no loss so whatever

>>6728755
This is my last response and I'll give you a tip that worked for getting me to run and it's the classic start with Xminutes and increase a bit everyday I did 5min run +5min per day capped at an hour per day now. Idk how it applies to drawing but I'm sure it'd be easier for you than starting with a goal like drawing 5 hours per day.

I'm also just really really lazy. I have hardly done any work regarding anything in the past five years.
I just wake up and then burn time on bullshit like family guy comps and factorio till the sun goes down.

>>6728762
I've been doing that this whole week basically. Started at a few little doodles monday and got up to an hour twenty today. I plan on doing even more tomorrow and hopefully i can get through the summer somewhat productively.

Xminutes is definetely a better way of thinking about it because whenever i get told something along the lines of "it takes years to get good" i just shut down completely and lose all and any motivation

>>6728763
Literally trolling at this point

>>6728766
Sorry.
I'll just stfu till i get a new drawing to show or smth.

>>6725587

>>6728768
It’s a learning experience man. Just get to drawing the next one. That’s all u gotta do. Just sounds like ur trollin lmao. Keep ur head down and get to work brother

It's over.

>>6728776
Loomis

>>6728781
Anon..I did it exactly by the loomis method and it turned out like that

>>6728776
seems solid, what'[s the issue there

Any tips on anatomy and rendering?

>>6728785
It just seems off and I don't know what it is

>schizo cunt shits up the thread with retarded autism
every time

>>6728776
Maybe try just limiting yourself to using straight lines only and making as little marks as you can. Don’t worry about details like every crevice of the lip for now.

>>6728787
Jaw too big, eyes too big, centerline off, didn't draw neck/shoulders.

>>6728789
apologies

>>6728794
thanks

>>6728776
>>6728783
Post the reference

>>6728786
>find artists/art u like
>study and copy their works
>pay attention to lighting and shapes
>do color study

>>6728662
>I… I think I have this problem. I feel like I’m more interested in LEARNING to draw than I am in ACTUALLY drawing anything in particular.

Now you know why the most given and repeated advice here is 'keep drawing' or 'just draw'. Reading how to draw without practice won't make you magically draw better - and as you draw you start to notice things like "How do I draw this? How do I draw that?" which is where the practice will be applied, or more reference will be needed.

any critique on this work in progress
I don't know if the things I've animated read well yet.

>>6728832
when he hits the ground from the jump he should roll or something, looked too much like he weighed nothing

First time posting here, sorry. Is posting porn sketches allowed here or is there another general and/or board for that?

>>6728861
tits or gtfo

>>6728861
Yes, /ic/ is a +18 board

>>6728861
Go to >>/salt/

>>6728786
I think it would be interesting to add a tilt to the head and the angle between the ribcage and the pelvis should be more accentuated
for a tip on anatomy
copy your favorite doujinshi 2x
and morpho's anatomy book

>>6728905
Based I hope one day you will redline my atrocious work which I won't post

>>6728905
>>6728814
Thank ye. was mostly following the reference but it ended up making it a bit less interesting. I should still be using IRL references yes?

>>6728922
I prefer drawings from pros since they are more dynamic, especially from manga pages because they are only lines
>>6728917
Just post it bro

How do I get better at drawing legs and feet?

>>6728931
Practice.

>>6728929
Well my favorites are alp, lolicept, kyockcho and kekemotsu so I guess I'll study those?

>>6728945
Picrel looks nice to study, the proportions are nice and relatively realistic

Jesus Christ someone make a new fkn thread please

I need a bulk amount of photo reference please. I've burnt through sketch daily, line of action and various flicker albums. I just want to download thousands of images of people for my phone. Please and thank you

Hello beg. Houses. Another art book just told me i need to draw (a lot) to improve. Ugh.

>>6728861
just post it. at worst you will get 3 day ban
>>6728776
i havent read loomis yet, but from the little i saw i am pretty sure you are supposed to CUT the sphere where the sides of skull are: your ear is completely displaced and thats why it looks so lmao
>>6728736
you are talking too much and not PYWing enough. DRAW
>>6728715
the boobs are tragedy, like a WOW disaster tragedy. Otherwise its kinda cute
>>6728640
pro beg tip: first draw the scene without any casted shadows, then make new layer, set it to multiply, set its opacity to 30% and then with black paint casted shadows. it will do the math for you so you dont end up with super bright highlights in casted shade (umbrella shade)
>>6728643
eeeeey i remember this owl. Just dont give up and keep going
>>6728567
i kneel
>>6728562
welcome to the beg. now pick up keys to drawing and get all the gains!
>>6728509
pro beg tip: take your hand and imagine it is holding round object like shotgun. then rotate the hand so you can see its front. notice how fucking different it is from how you drew the hand on right side
>>6728422
nope. you need at least 2 hours for a good session. 20 minutes is nothing
>>6728059
very cool dragon!
>>6727597
looks coomable

some recent sketches
would love critiques

>>6729055

>>6729056

>>6729057

>>6729058

>>6729055
>>6729056
>>6729057
>>6729058
>>6729061
You’re trying, which is better than most. Go through some Vilppu stuff. Or really anything. Keep going Anon! Never give up.
>>6728703
SOVL

Don't really know where to ask do I'll just do it here
What sites do you guys use to look for various artists so you can study their artstyles? I tried Pixiv but it's a bit convoluted

>>6729088
I just go through Twitter chains of artists and their friends. Takes time but you'll have a hella inspirational Twitter feed

What is the most glaringly wrong thing in here that I should work on?

>>6729125
I think perspective? The dinosaur and the ufo have different perspectives. The ufo seems closer than it should be considering the dino is looking at it.

>>6729125
Perspective. You should try and complete the background to ground the drawing and give more scale to the subjects in the drawing. You don't need to make a grid for point perspective you're better off fucking with line weight and using atmospheric perspective for this I think.

>>6729116
Doesn't seem like an efficient way of looking up artists without already knowing some good ones but I'll give it a go, thanks

>>6729136
>>6729139
Hm okay. Thank you!

>>6729125
>>6729136
>>6729139
Something like this, then?

Still suck but I feel like today's training was really good, Was able to notice the lack of motion and "life" of the things I've drawn so far like the first one where everything is stiff.
And I have to care less about correcting wrong lines, most of the time when drawing on a tablet or paper I spend erasing random lines because they didn't come out like I wanted.
I will try to sketch more poses and try work on other things next week. Also need to work using my shoulder better.

>>6728953
Kekemotsu is always good, and so is Alp.

You guys reckon going through drawing books like this back to front is good study?

how did i do it
first time drawing since elementary school

>>6729035
>now pick up keys to drawing and get all the gains!
at least recommend the guy a good resource come on

>>6729277
Exaggerate lines in a way that doesn't make "logical" sense but feels right in the end result.
Any curve you wanna make, make it twice as curvy.
I've been told this is a part of how you get good at dynamism

I'm 30.
Is it time for /ic/ to throw in the towel and admit that maybe I could never learn how to draw after all?

I woke up at 2pm even though i had many alarms set for eight AM.
This day has already started in failure. Hopefully i'll still be able to get my practice going

>>6729379
You're on the right track, look into baroque plates

>>6729511
?

>>6729517
wow haha I meant Bargue plates

>>6729055
>>6729056
>>6729057
>>6729058
>>6729061
Take a couple seconds to combine them into 1 image for the post in the thread, since they're not really quality enough to be separate.
idk if any specific critique is even worth it though, you just need more mileage. keep it up like the other anon said.
spend a tiny bit more time so you at least have the right amount of toes I guess

What do i do if i got filtered by Loomis

>>6729076
>SOVL
thanks man that means a lot.
For some reason i do better with a mouse than i do with a pencil. I'll try to equal out that skill difference.

>>6728311
>pawell ignores your drawing
how does one COPE?
So among others I figured that I had an issue with framing, like you really don't need to see what's going on below the waist the point of interests are his arm and their faces
Does this crop look better or worse?

>>6729088
this is such a weird question to ask. what got you into drawing??? there must have been something, some porn, some painting in a museum, some animated cartoons for children or weebs, something, ANYTHING what made you look at it in AWE and then you were like
>whoa, i want to draw like that
use that THAT for easy material resources for master studies. it can even be a movie, a videogame, a book, AI generated slop, porn, anything...

>>6729379
sure thats what master studies effectively are: trying to copy stuff which is above your current skill level. i will only say that you arent putting enough effort into the drapery which kinda defeats the purpose of the book about drapery

>>6729542
you acknowledge that you are actual beginner and as such you pick book for /BEG/inner. pic very much related. loomis and other art titans are for intermediates who dont struggle with observation and perspective and can already somewhat feel the form

>>6729580
I've done drawing on the right side of the Brain and did not have much success, althought i did drop out not even halfway through so that's probably why. Keys to Drawing feels like a book for intermediate people as well.

Currently going through Drawing for the Absolute and Utter Beginner and it feels like somewhat of a bs. I do visibly worse when following the instructions attached and i also do the stuff that i did with all the other previous books, i.e upside down copying.

>>6729608
copying picture upside down is just a psychological trick to help with breaking habit of symbol drawing. Dont mix up the tricks from various courses (they can even be counter to each other) and simply follow whatever the book tells you to do.

>>6729616
>>6729616
>>6729616
new thread

>>6729616
>>6729616

>>6729116
Not after daddy musk changed the rules.

>>6729580
>this is such a weird question to ask. what got you into drawing??? there must have been something, some porn, some painting in a museum, some animated cartoons for children or weebs, something, ANYTHING what made you look at it in AWE and then you were like
>whoa, i want to draw like that
>use that THAT for easy material resources for master studies. it can even be a movie, a videogame, a book, AI generated slop, porn, anything...

NTA: Would it be bad if I said none at all, that absolutely no art style I have ever seen has ever made me feel that way in all the years I have consumed visual media?
Is that why I can't make any progress? I don't like a single style THAT much?

>>6729076
>>6729528
would it be a good excuse if i told you all of these sketches took at max 2 minutes

>>6730034
bullshit
post stream

>>6730114
you're supposed to video your sessions??????????