/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

wasting ur time arguing with drawatards just sketch

>>6702663
true, drawatards are a special breed of drooling.
thank you for enlightening.

>>6702662
based assessment.

>falling for pajeeducation
Pajeets dont even regulated their own post secondary education. Why would they even care about online learning?

We all do anon. That's why it works. God is a sick troll.

lmfao just pirate online courses if you're too autistic to figure out drawing yourself. they ain't nintendo after all
Spending 35$ a month on online courses is just a shit use of money.

The first lesson on lines is solid advice. Everything else is a waste of time.

>>6702729
as someone who stuck with that dogshit program through the animals lesson, this is true. First two lessons are OK and that's only because they're a mishmash of peter han and scoro's absolute basics. Irshad cannot draw for shit, I have a whole anti-Irshad folder full of his atrocious drawings but I don't feel like dumping it right now.

Good old /beg/trap

>>6702734
please dump. I'm curious as to what it takes to work in a professional game studio as a concept artist

>>6702734
>I have a whole anti-Irshad folder full of his atrocious drawings
I'm interested. I studied drawabox till lesson 3 and even drew 250 boxes. Then I dropped it and Ive been wondering if I should pick it up again.
I want to see if I'm missing anything for not finishing it.

The boxes exercise isnt even good unless you're megabeg. He never recommends to try drawing a bunch of boxes on the same imaginary 2-3+ pts perspective grid even tho its the only box exercise thats actually useful past your first week of drawing. Poor mans Peter Han.

>>6702729
>>6702734
This

>>6702772
LMAO, yeah, a "professional concept artist" AKA a shitty mobile game studio hired him so they could drastically underpay him and make him do backend code monkey shit on an artist's salary. Go get us some coffee Irshad
>>6702781
>>6702819
okay but I'm not responsible for the damage to your retinas

>>6702825

>>6702828
I've seen literal /beg/s redline better than Irshad, he genuinely cannot draw a human face

>>6702829
or any face really

>>6702831
like genuinely what the fuck is this

>>6702832
just awful

>>6702835

>>6702836
when you spend all your time rendermaxxing but forget to flip the canvas

>>6702838
like this is amateur hour shit, how do you let it get so fucked up?

>>6702839
non euclidian dog coming through

Based. So fucking based.
I dropped it like hot shit once I realized this faggot wasn't going to teach me figure drawing.
Daddy Vilppu and papi Huston taught me like this hack never could.

>>6702662
doesn't this guy has aphantasia? But talking about his course, everything before the draw a box challenge was helpful but after that point I would just recommend Vilppu

>>6702840
this motherfucking fraud grinded for 10 hours a day for months, had instruction from Peter Han on his parents' dime, and this is the quality of work he puts on his own fucking web site. And he has the gall to "give lessons." Blind leading the fucking blind. i spit on irshad.

>b-but DAB is free!
what's your time worth?

Only draw anime is relevant

>>6702662
Bullshit. How much more basic can you get than starting from how to hold a pen and make a line. Do you need a course on how to get in the mood to make art with an advanced later lesson on how to sit yourself down in front of a desk?

>>6702828
yup looks like something that'll fit a mobile game art

>>6702662
Sure, but its the only thing on the planet thats actually able to get me to draw. EVERYTHING ELSE CANT. Like, the books you people shill all the time, I get fucking stunlocked trying to read them. Even if I can find a video relevant to me, idk how to use them. And just watching other artists to copy what they do? Fucking how.

Problem is I think im getting filtered by even drawabox now because how the fuck do you do the texture exercise

>>6702662
It's not all bad, there are some things that are good.
>The first lesson
>Contour lines
>Basic concept of construction
>Perspective lesson was okay
Basically, if you're low beg, there's a decent bit that's going to help you.
Beyond that it gets to applying construction to a bunch of things, where it gets really stiff and sloppy. There are parts where he just ignores his own construction lines even in the demos. Some of the results he gets are also rather blobby. It's not all useless, but not particularly helpful either. The animal lessons are the worst, picture related.
What a lot of people tend to complain about is the grind part, which really isn't a problem. The 100 chests one is actually helpful, and the number of pages he asks you to draw (~8 pages of insects for the first homework on that) are pretty reasonable. Mileage actually helps.

>>6702829
>he genuinely cannot draw a human face
He's almost certainly autistic, and autists commonly have problems with faces. It's actually remarkable how much better the sperg draws when doing objects or insects rather than mammals or humans.

>>6703017
(I have to split my post in 3-4 parts because I'm gonna be over the character limit.)

A lot of meme courses shilled on /ic/ suck (except Burne Hogarth). Even Vilppu is super obtuse, dude is a good drawer but explains in super abstract way like ~FEEL THE FORM~

Meh I took some look at some 3D wireframes and 3d modelling software and analyzed the models and bam I think I can "Feel the form" better now (+ technical drawing book for architect + product designers are also super helpful BUT THEY ARE ALSO BORING AS FUCK). We live in a fucking 3D plane (cue the 4D thing cuz it doesn't apply to drawing yet) and so if you are not able to visualize in 3D it sucks balls.

"eye balling" "sight line up" atelierfags shit I've also tried but they are a clutch (Bargue, etc.) and a good way to get you started but it's bad for imaginative drawing.

The more I think about drawing the more I think the problem is that it's MULTIDISCIPLINARY and so there's a lot of misinformation going on because people would tend to clump every skill set into one big thing, "JUST DRAW".

Let's take the case of FPSs games for an analogy:

In FPS games (Valorant, Apex, Overwatch), "aiming" is split into 2 base styles:
- projectile
- hitscan.

The ones that are good with hitscan are not inherently good with projectiles, and vice versa.

So are the ones who are good with projectiles, they do not have good hitscan aim.

However, good hitscan aim can enhance projectile aim, but good "projectile aim" does not enhance good hitscan aim (cuz projectile is mostly pattern reading like flappy bird shit and fighting game timing shit while hitscan is about kinesthetic mouse control).

>>6703249
(Part 2):

Then hitscan aim once again is like divided in 2 more categories:

- static (I call this HOLDING aim; it's mostly used by sniper players on defense blah blah Chamber players) Cheaters use this thing call "trigger bot" to replicate this behavior.
- dynamic (many call this FLICKING aim; it's mostly used by pushing aggressive players but defensive players can also use it; it's way less reliable but is very fancy to watch) Cheaters would use "magnetic pull" or "magic bullet" to replicate this.

Then there's jokesters who think that aim training is a fucking meme just "play more" without any intent.


While there are certainly FPS gamers who don't need to grind meme aim trainers, THESE PEOPLE ARE THE EXCEPTION and are equivalent to TALENTED ARTISTS who just "get it" subconsciously or some shit. Unfortunately, the majority of othe population do not have that "talent" and need a methodical outline to get shit through properly. The same can also be said for other domains like Piano, Guitar, Singing. There is a ceiling that most can't get through over and there is a floor that the talented have that is higher than most. But it's ok because everything is a hobby and we are doing this for fun.

So if we take the FPS analogy and pull it for "drawing", we can split it like this à la skill tree:

## Line drawing (equivalent of "hitscan" in FPSes---with a good fundie, it can transfer into any paths)
Level 1:
- copy what you see in front of you (aka sight drawing/eyeballing/atelier fundies)

Level 2:
- breaking down the forms (orthogonal drawing of the subject)

Level 3:
- material properties/physics (elasticity, folds interaction, hardness of material like organic e.g. flesh vs inorganic e.g. rock, etc.)

Level 4:
- warping shit in perspective (looking at how Live 2D or puppeteer masters do it is super insightful)

Level EX:
- learn how to build scene from custom perspective (Kim Jung Gi black magic) like fish eye, 5 point perspective ,etc....

>>6703251
(Part 3)
## Below are shit that are ADJACENT CONCEPTS to "line drawing" (FPS analogies would be "projectile", "movement", "map knowledge", "interaction knowledge", "team building", "pacing" and knowledge of "time control"---while essential and extremely helpful to secure the W, they are not what is advertised as the "core gameplay")

### Color theory <- I gave up this shit myself because I don't consider it "drawing" (as an FPS analogy, this is like learning meme strats and team play shit where it does not apply much in ranked ladder)
- Photography books
- Gurney
- Study why some photo filters are so appealing

### Stylization process (as an FPS analogy, this would be like mastering a "Single Character" like Jett one tricks, sage one-tricks, these people can be EXTREMELY good at one thing then fall flat at another thing)
- anatomy book of "Subject" (in FPS analogy, that would be a character/role type---like support/control/damage while in art it would be like humanoids, quadrupals, etc. this is also why we see lots of Atelierfags having a hard time to branch out because THEY WERE TO ORIGINAL ONE TRICKERS THE WHOLE TIME ARGHHHHH)
- aesthetism (study concepts of what kind of "anatomy transformation" makes a character more "aesthetically pleasing" unlike their real life counterpart, like "exposed abs", super large bubbly asses, pointy noses, etc for sexualizing female characters (I believe ic has a thread on this).
- studying "stylized forms" of a subject you like (which is what a lot of /ic/ are doing with the anime thread) and what

>>6703188
only three things i took away was using your shoulder to draw (but of course the motherfucker goes "REEE YOU MUST ONLY USE YOUR SHOULDER FOR EVERY LINE!!" even though wrist drawing is fine for small details, that fucking trapped me since drawing small details with your shoulder is a nightmare. Wrist drawing has its place in art, and elbow drawing too.

The fineliner pen only was very good advice, no worrying about botched lines, just continuously drawing and drawing to get mileage under the belt.
But yes, maybe i'll refer to this website ignoring the lesson 1 BS, and check out lesson 2 and others while stealing what advice is even there.
Drawatards discord is also awful since you can't voice any critique without being attacked because "noooo its free your just wrong!!"

>>6703252
(Part 4)
### Composition (as an FPS analogy, this is like learning your ability and map knowledge, and IGL ability; it will definitely give you an edge, but it will not make you "mechanically godly" but it's still incredibly useful to stand out and boost your team power a shit ton)
- Photography books/blogs
- Fashion magazines
- Ads (I kid you not, there's a reason why ads get so much engagement is because their whole existence is making the composition look fucking good)


The problem is most begs instead of specializing in ONE aspect and focus on "line drawing", they do "EVEYRTHING AT ONCE" and just like in FPS games, specialization allows players to climb way faster than flexing to every single character of one roster (I've coached a FPS beg friend of mine to T500)


Begs should stop tackling every fucking concept at once like imagine if you play Overwatch you are trying to grind 10 characters at once that's inefficient as fuck, and in Valorant you try to pull the same shit and you'll fall flat. People who flex all the time can't rank up. Flexing to 1-2 roles is OK but not ALL 4 DIFFERENT ROLES (where each roles there's like 7 different characters).

>>6703256
very based analogy, and i do agree that observational studies should be the first thing anyone ever does before getting into art, maybe a little of linework study just to make sure they can get good enough linework before trying to study.

memeabox has the fucking thing flipped upside down and is just "oh just use these cubes and circles and sheeit and construct something you never studied before!!"

Anyways, for the /beg/'s studying this thread, keys to drawing by bert dodson seems to be a great book, just only read on his parts about restating, observation, and then use the included self critique. Doing the exercises multiple times also helps a ton early on, so just do it once or twice to get a feel for it, and then produce something you think you can learn from and compare it against the previous drawings.
book link is here: https://ia803206.us.archive.org/16/items/Keys_to_Drawing/Keys_to_Drawing.pdf

>>6703265
Thx, oh yeah I can definitely vouch for Dodson. Read that shit like 10 years ago and it definitely unclogged some of the misconceptions I've digested from other art books. The examples he gave are SUPER GOOD so it should be the no. 1 most recommended book, not the Loom and Vilppu (although they are more praised, unfortunately). I can't believe that I actually did try the memebox exercise at that time (for 1 week though) but it was so boring and unstimulating that I instead took the time read 1 perspective book + 1 anatomy book in the same time frame than going through its exercises. It felt like menial janny work lololol.

Actually one of the better books there recommended by \ic\, while his linework are not the best compared to say Vilppu/the Loom (lul meme "chicken scratch" it doesn't mean shit when a lot of pros do it under the guise of "searching lines")

The problem is a lot of people would confabulate "a good drawer" with a "good teacher". The problem with lots of art books recommended here it's like those pro players giving advice such as "Just aim", "Just click the head, bruh" (??????) They are so good that it is instinctive for them so they don't bother breaking it down for the general audience.

>>6703251
>>6703249
>>6703252
>>6703253
>>6703256
>>6703256
>>6703276

Nigger you need to read "Drawing on the right side of the brain" You are obviously left brained to shit. Drawing comes from a place that can't be explained by logic and super autistic thinking like that. Some people are naturally more rightbrained and thus "Talented" but you can teach yourself to use your right brain more, read the fucking book. Also meditate.

>>6702662
>>6702663
>>6702665
>>6702669
>all these ESLs COINCIDENTALLY posting at first
Ok, but why not keep your sissy fit to yourselves on Discord instead of trying to make a popular thread on /ic/?

There is no profit from it, we already have argued Drawanigger to exhaustion.

How do you get filtered by drawabox?

>How do you get filtered by drawabox?

>>6703514
Shitposting is fun
We do it everyday in east vs west threads
Anime good/bad threads
AI threads
Talent threads
Loomis threads
Everyday man. I love it.

>>6702662
>>6702734
>>6702829
>>6702828
>>6702831
>>6702839
>>6702838
>>6702840
>you strength is clearly rendering as all your drawings are carried by colors and values
>make an entire guide on drawing instead when your drawings suck
This is how you spot a grift

ah, so it's another discord drama vendetta. who cares. draw more.

>>6703553
His rendering is god awful too, it's extremely busy and muddy

>>6702662
Why did you get into drawing, anon? This should resolves your very own question. Replicate that style of drawing, and you'll be on the path of becoming a /beg/ tier

>>6703991
based and master copy pilled

>>6703249
>>6703251
>>6703252
>>6703256
Chief im gonna be honest, I got stunlocked halfway through the first post, idk what the fuck you're talking about and I dont play FPS games so Im not really getting the analogies. But I did see a bit about 3d shit which I do anyway.
>>6703265
>Anyways, for the /beg/'s studying this thread, keys to drawing
I've tried reading through that book, but my god the rambling is just dumb, and it makes the exercises easy to miss, but the exercises are fine at least, I just dont know what to do from there.
>>6703444
>"Drawing on the right side of the brain"
That one is the same as keys, bunch of rambling makes it really hard to even bother with. But once I actually found the exercises, they were fine. I dont really think I understand them though so maybe im doing it wrong.

>>6704202
> I just dont know what to do from there.

https://davidfinchart.com/where-to-start-and-where-to-go-from-there-a-roadmap-to-professional-quality-art/

>>6704213
wow wtf there actually is something to hold my hand fuck yeah
>gesture drawing
uh oh..

>>6704215
Start drawing, faggot

>>6704215
David Finch's definition of gesture drawing is just "basic form drawing". You're drawing basic simplified cylinder figures

This video helps:
https://youtu.be/GNfe_ypQG9w

>>6704221
yes im looking at the marvel whatevers like the thing says

>>6704222
Why do you guys keep pushing this bald fuck lately? His guide is irrelevant for waifus.

>>6702662
Its literally just peter Han and Scott Robertson codensened and shortened to the most relevant information. I like it. It'll teach you about constructional drawing and as far as I know its the only course that will teach you on how to ink textures. Peter Han goes into this but its shallow and lacks clear direction.

>>6702836
>>6702835
>>6702832
>>6702831
>>6702828
Drawing skills aside, I don't think he understands human interaction. Like, if you're this inept at conveying basic emotions I don't know if any amount of skill will make you a good artist.

>>6704288
When Peter was teaching at CGMA he did 3 hour long sessions after the lessons. This is not included in either of the old and new torrents.

>>6702840
If you told me this was AI generated I'd believe you

>>6704288
blackpill me on peter han

>>6704288
Yeah this is the part that i got stuck on. Idk how the fuck to do this shit

>>6704282
Copy morpho instead of bridgman
Copy hentai instead of superhero comics
Ez

>>6704313
The thing that will trip you up with that mainly has to do with stopping your values too soon at the same place because you’re afraid to push the intensity. You can check how far you pushed your pushed your values using blur filter in photoshop.

>>6704298
Fuck, really? Is it all lost and or is there somewhere we can find it?

>>6704316
And actually now that I say that, >>6704288 this example is shit.

>>6704313
Squint to find the cast shadows. Thank me later.

>>6704318

It’s still there if you take the class on CGMA as they include it as a legacy Q&A bonus.

>>6702838
>>6702839
>>6702840
>>6702845
>>6704296
post work

>>6704323
Hi Irshad

>>6704316
>>6704320
mm, i dont know what either of these things mean.

>>6703256
this is your brain on valorant

>>6705227
Good thing I grew up on csgo. Gotta love the "just git good, scrub" mentality there.

>>6702662
Meds, bro.

>>6703251
>- breaking down the forms (orthogonal drawing of the subject)
Hey, could you expound on what you mean here ?
Im not sure how orthogonal drawing will help you improve as an artist generally

>>6702662
What are some examples of good beginner courses.
How old are you...

>>6703249
>>6703251
>>6703252
>>6703256

>>6703444
That book did absolutely nothing for me. My experiences when completing the exercises were never anything like what the author described.

>>6703991
If I knew how to do that, I wouldn't be here. I can't even replicate children's doodles. I can copy drawings, but doing so teaches me nothing about how they were actually drawn. My copying process is completely separate from any sort of actual drawing process. When I watch people draw, I can't comprehend what I'm seeing well enough to even attempt to imitate it.

>>6702662
It’s a free website/resource.
Do you expect them to not shill?
I agree with you it’s not great but it’s FREE and definitely one if the better free (and legal) resources out there

>>6702734
Please share
The only reason i’m still following DAB is because of the radio runner curriculum. It’s also one of the reasons it’s taking me an insane amount of time to finish term 1

>>6702825
That sounds like he basically made the game himself. Basically the indie dev dream

>>6704298
Wtf why is it not included, that seems very important

>>6702662
What I hate more is the people who clearly know how to ink and clearly have a really good grasp doing the lessons and asking for feedback while my stuff looks like beginner shit because all I did was follow the things outlined in DAB.

>>6705891
time is not free

>>6702662
Your problem isn't your inability to draw.
You're just retarded. Like seriously I think you're just dumb
Draw a box is a meme, but if you can't even understand what the initial lessons are attempting to do and why they are valuable, ur too stupid to succeed at anything at all.

All drawing is composed of simple volumes, which are made of simple shapes, which are made of simple lines.
You draw by deconstructing a subject into these simple forms and then drawing them in the right position and proportions on the paper.
But if you can't draw a straight line or a smooth elipse, it's doesn't matter how good your artistic vision is.

Draw a box teaches you how to draw straight lines, smooth curves, and simple volumetric shapes, and it's very good at teaching this.

It doesn't teach you how to do art, it just teaches drawing intentional lines.
You need other resources to learn light and color, perspective, stylization, anatomy, gesture etc

If you got filtered by draw a box ur never gonna make it at anything in life
It's never been about talent, some people are just fucking dumb

>>6702662
Finally a good post. Include loomis on that list and you're well on your way away from beg traps.

>>6706047
fucking this,
all of what OP is bitching about is the shit on the periphery. If you want to make it you need to be more self reliant and be able to make resources work for you, instead of bitching about how you aren't catered to for your lack of self awareness. You don't have to participate in their shit. Just take what you need, leave what you don't.

>>6704202

>I've tried reading through that book, but my god the rambling is just dumb

I mean the page that's linked in the sticky literally says "Only the exercises in these books matter; any pseudoscience or rambling on the author's part can be ignored."