/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>Peter Biskind (born 1940) is an American cultural critic, film historian, journalist and former executive editor of Premiere magazine
Not an artist

The opposite of that is true.

I always knew Loomis was a sissy femboy.

>>6665679
Cool it with the anti-Semitism.

About 60~70% I'd say.
U need a feminine soul to express vivid details and emotions. But then again he's never seen a bara artist in his life.

>>6665672
Nonsensical, at least until "woman" and "man" have been clearly defined. I don't really understand why having a penis or not can make someone a great artist or not.

>>6665685
>U need a feminine soul to express vivid details and emotions
cosmomagazinesque

>>6665672
If he means this in a metaphysical sense, probably. The feminine is regenerative and fecund, always creating and fruitful. It's also receptive, and you need to be keen and be able to observe the world around you before you create something new. Plato touched on this before about a male philosopher's "spiritual pregnancy"

It doesn't mean it makes a man less male though. The best men are fruitful in this sense and receptive. I guess if artists are feminine then the best scientists, scholars, and leaders (which the prototype is fatherhood) are "feminine" as well.

This is just as stupid about debating over electric plugs and complaining about calling them male and female because one goes in and one takes in

>>6665704
>I don't really understand why having a penis or not can make someone a great artist or not.
I dislike this argument that the only difference is the genitals. Women bear children (historically throughout their entire adult life) so your body needs to handle a completely different set of tasks and has a completely different survival strategy. Hormones and chemical balances are also very different.

>dolphins are better swimmers than humans
>but why would being grey make you a better swimmer?

>>6665672
it's wrong to think feelings are entirely a female thing, men have a different worldview and needs so their feelings are different not absent
I guess he grew up in a world where men didn't show feelings but women did so that's where he is coming from

>>6665672
Don't care how true it is. He's a Jew so I automatically stop listening to whatever he says.

>>6665704
Having a penis means u are more willing to take risk and experiment rather than playing it safe. If u succeed u will be remember as great.
While women were busy slipping hot mint tea in their bouffant gown and fine china imports, gossiping about the latest love scandals and the frivolity of men, the guys invented aviation. But to get to there millions of "dumb" men fell to their death.
It is the same in art. All the important art movement came about after countless trial and error by male artists and their successors.
On average, women are better artists than men because they follow their brains and intuitions. But men tend to produce remarkable artists because they follow their hopes and dreams.

>>6665672
no

>>6665672
sounds like tranny bullshit fuck off with that

>>6665866
I was caricaturing but yeah, I see where you're coming from. Still, greatest artists in history were males, and despite a less discriminative env today, women aren't top artists

>>6665972
See >>6666310: if they truly were better artists, we would see them rise more often

>/cbsg/ mogs 99% of ic
he might be into something

I don’t know. All the best artists in history are guys.

>>6665672
>How true is this?
It's his opinion. It might be true for him, that's why he's projecting it.
Factually, I think men and women approach art in their own ways on average, and it gets more unique at the individual level.
Personally, I approach art as a puzzle. I look at something, like a painting, and try to figure out how to achieve that look, the steps that the artist took to get there, etc. it's very analytical and left brained, so I'd say it's more masculine. I wouldn't care if it's feminine either, I'm just stating what I think is fact.

>>6665672
>listening to a jew about art

>>6665672
>Funny quote from very smart person

Taking estrogen will improve your art immensely. Instant results.

>>6665672
Show me a biohole on par with Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Rubens. And these guys were not feminine at all. There are no good female artists, never were.

>>6666564
Julie Bell.

>>6666326
>>6666564
women didn't receive art education you stupid fucks.

>>6666564
they were gay though

>>6666649
Even now that they can, they still don't particularly outshine men.

>>6666590
Technically speaking, 19th century French artists pwn all Renaissance masters. The big plus of the latter was that they were starting from scratch.

Julie Bell in this context isn't revolutionary compared to what exists.

>>6666650
> t. gay finding ways to cope
Everytime
> inb4 NO BuTT It iz TRuE ANoN
ok

>>6666667
>outshine men
we are talking about skill not popularity

>>6666683
Isn't it true both ways? (I don't get it)

>>6666697

>>6666703
Really, I have no idea what your argument is.

>>6666667
then why is cbsg, in average, better than the rest of ic?

>>6666719

>>6666667
>Julie Bell in this context isn't revolutionary compared to what exists.
Yes, in your critical postmodernist context.
In the actual context of the question I was replying to, I believe the Anon was asking about technical skill or craftsmanship, to which Julie Bell is not only on par but surpasses the names mentioned.

>>6666754
> postmodernist
I don't want to know what this means so definitely not my context.

Yeah I know about the other anon, but my point was that his remark wasn't judicious (he's right but for the wrong reasons, as far as I can tell). Most professionals from atelier fags today are technically better than Renaissance masters. Digifags somehow too, but it's trickier to compare given the drastic technical simplifications offered by digital means.

>>6666749
Yeah, so far my point of view is that if your point really was worth making, you'd be spending some effort to make it clear.

>>6666728
Assuming this is true, one datapoint doesn't make a global trend. Especially when you don't have gender stats; /cbsg/ could be a gay thread.

https://www.artrenewal.org/ doesn't seem to show a strong biais towards women being better artists for instance (as far as a quick look goes)

>>6666770

>>6666770
I start solely from my strict definition of art.
You seem to consider revolution essential or equal to art, I don't.
Art to me is the application of skill to create something beautiful, and this something is what we call "artwork". By that definition, the medium and time of the artwork's creation are irrelevant.
And yet, that is not to say DaVinci, Michelangelo, and Rubens don't deserve some form of recognition, I agree they deserve it, for being forerunners, and setting the standards higher for everyone else, they should be celebrated for that, because that's exactly what made artists today better than them, and I believe DaVinci would find it a disgrace if we kept him on a pedestal at the cost of forgoing recognition of modern contemporaneous artists who are deserving of it.

who loves dance music and fa-shion??
https://youtu.be/3hNIECBPrao?t=3412

>>6665672
You can see right through that faggot agenda. If you draw some HOT BITCHES then you're not an artist right? You're just a monster not even "human".

Now I understand all that FAGGOT trend about "coom" this "coom" that. Demonizing men sex drive because is too OP for the faggots, they want to castrate our minds, take the power out of us. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN FAGGOTS.

This has a deeper esoteric meaning beyond tranny nonsense that 99% of /ic/ won't get.

>>6666954
Honestly i hate frazettas palettes. His poses and facials expressions are chariacatured and cartoonish. No subtlety. Makes his paintings look like pastel courtroom sketches.
BOVGEREAV is the best at rendering skin with subtlety and grace. BOV was temperate amd chaste, frazetta was crude and pedestrian

>>6666962
We all know that. Frazzetta is RAW POWER. Bouguereau could be the all time best, but you can't mix pears and apples. Frazzetta was a comic artist, an illustrator, he churned out work like a maniac one after the other. He was an insane genius, imo much better and talented than Bouguereau. 90% of Frazzetta's work are almost rough sketches, he couldn't contain himself to polish work, he had to make new stuff all the time.
Even when he lost his right hand, he kept painting with the left one. It's an art god.

>>6666962
>70s pulp rock fantasy illustrator
>XIX century academic painter

Glenn Fabry might be a more apt comparison
I like Frazetta's fuck all hyperdynamic hard light stuff desu. It vibes

>>6666973
Honestly i think frazettas women are borderline porn
. I dont much care for pulpy art. It was designed to be replicated with halftone printing and cymk inks. It just so limiting.

>>6666973
To add,
The only near contemporary artist whose sketchy brushwork i will readily accept is Jeremy Mann

>>6666823
>You seem to consider revolution essential or equal to art, I don't.
That's a misunderstanding. I think we agree on the basis, but let me be pedantic and highlight the issue, using your definition:

The "application of skill" isn't identical for Renaissance artists than it is for Julie Bell: Internet, camera, paint tubes, dozens of books on how to paint available in a few seconds, probably knowledgeable teachers: it really required much more skills and work to be an artist in the Renaissance that it does for modern artists.

We can choose to ignore this relative factor and that's fine: very clearly, modern artists are way more advanced than ye ol' masters. But such a comparison is in my opinion biased/unfair/incomplete.

Think, comparing financial success of an orphan vs. that of a kid whose father owns a few MegaCorps.

> DaVinci would find it a disgrace if we kept him on a pedestal at the cost of forgoing recognition of modern contemporaneous artists who are deserving of it.
Without a doubt; besides your quote and others, he died regretting not to have reached his sought degree of perfection.

So yeah: comparing only their output, modern artists are way, way ahead Renaissance's. But as you stated, one can't forget that they're starting from very sensibly different inputs.

>>6665672
>I'm a faggot so everyone must secretly be one too

>this thread
old masters are still unsurpassed. saying modern atelier fags are better is like saying someone is a better draughtsman because their bargue study is more photo-realistic than michelangelo's works, and is just going by the incorrect modernist critique of painters before them as solely about reproducing reality.

I guess there probably aren't too many meathead jock artists, just like there probably aren't too many bimbo Stacy artists.

>>6667725
speak for yourself, sissy boy

Is taking massive horse dildos to the balls feminine?

>>6665672
Dont even need to look at his wikipedia's early life

>>6667746
the romans consider it submissive and feminine so sure

>>6667737
>twink
>Nintendo Switch
>furfag heads for censorship
Yep

>>6667737
>Manlet
>Furfag
>Display tablet
>Nintendrone
Based. How much can you lift bruh?

>>6667737
>tfw no fit hairless twink to cuddle with at night
Why even live bros?

>>6667737
>tfw former fatass so I can literally never look like this despite finally realizing that I had twink genetics all along
Why even live? Nobody girl wants a fit guy who looks like a deflated balloon.

>>6667709
Anon, the painting technique of a Bouguereau, largely emulated by modern ateliers, surpassed earlier techniques by its efficiency and simplicity. That can hardly be denied.

The degree of refinement and delicacy of a Bargue plate, the regularity of Julien's hatching, all are technically better, and built upon old master's work.

But that's just a comparison on technical details.

>>6667748
> by virtue of being a Jew I consider him an asshole instead of considering him an asshole for behaving like an asshole.
Remember they've been persecuted forever, which means, persecution failed systematically. Plus they can
> muh antisemitism
very easily those days.

>>6665672
Sounds like a dude trying to appeal to feminists.

An artist can express whatever, can view things from whichever perspective, and does not need to contain any specific expression points in order to just let it out.

Every person has their own approach there, the only thing that matters, is how honest they are with it.

So, we end up with a guy appealing to a target demographic to get their goods.
Nothing but self-marketing.

>>6666962
>hates frazzy
>loves borgy
Pedo confirmed

A feminine man can never be an artist.

>>6666590
kitsch

>>6667755
>>6667999
>>6668012
>unless you're stuffed with roids you're a twink
I hate this timeline

>>6668572
oh shit guess I'm a better artist than 90% of the old masters

Is berserk a feminine manga because it’s emotional?

>>6669203
>love story between 2 twinks
yep

>>6669221
is guts a twink though?

>>6669841
twink enough for griffith, gambino and demons.

>>6669203
manga is not art.

>>6667230
I think that's where we disagree, If you think technology (or any other factor for that matter) makes the comparison unfair that's fine, but to me it's a matter of dryly assessing the results on paper/canvas without emotional attachment. Anything else makes matters too speculative.
Regarding technology, one issue is that we (or I) don't know Bell's process and how she learned things, so that's just assuming she uses cameras and whatnot (maybe she does, but that doesn't really matter to me).
Another one is that even if one has access to technology, but are undedicated to their craft, they would never reach Bell's level of skill, and unless she shows her process in more primitive media like pure pencil and paper, there's no way to know if the level of skill needed to reach her results are less, equal, or greater than DaVinci's. It may be the case DaVinci's art would've improved if he lived today, but maybe not, there's really no way to know, but we (hopefully) know for certain Bell's art has more fidelity than DaVinci's.
I also think there are other factors other than technology that play a larger role in people's skills (and none of them make comparisons unfair to me, things are simply what they are).
For example, numbers matter: there's 8 billion people on the planet now, whereas it's estimated that in the time of DaVinci there were 438,000,000 people total. Among these 8 billion, a few of those are bound to be more skilled than DaVinci, irrespective of technology.
Economic factors: DaVinci was a polymath who would spend time overseeing projects and teaching others, whereas nowadays more people can spend more time dedicating themselves to the craft of art.
Social factors: Back in DaVinci's time women had almost no rights and almost all obligations. It was rare for a woman to study anatomy, light and shadows, composition, etc. We may have missed on having great art and female artists because of that, but today a lot of women can and do study these things.

>>6671969
>It may be the case DaVinci's art would've improved if he lived today, but maybe not, there's really no way to know
Anon, the likelihood is so high. Imagine not having to move through towns to have to asks specialists random questions and instead just Googleing things around.

Regarding the rest of the argumentation, yeah, we could start considering other factors, but then we'd need to find a consensus on which ones are important, how to weight them, and the discussion can quickly become hairy. I'm too lazy to go into the details here, but it's a good idea to push this kind of reasoning far.

>>6671969
This is not even technically more proficient than Leonardo if he was alive today and painted as he did.
You all just lack taste and experience. Yes, taste is also a factor in evaluating skill.

>>6668572
Based.

>>6672004
>I'm too lazy
Same, I'm surprised this thread is still up, /ic/ moves much slower than other boards.

>>6672716
That Boris lucky son of a bitch. Still can't believe this FREAKING GODDESS married that guy.

>>6672040
In a few ways, it is. In others, it isn't.

>>6668559
And? I’m supposed to be insulted by that?

>>6665672
i draw lots of females but I that's cause the only thing that's inside me is a pervert.

>>6672771
Leonardo is better overall and shows experience and control. Just look at how sloppy, even uninspiring, the foliage and the drapery

>>6673364
She has better control over temperature, has produced way more artworks (https://www.juliebell.com/artwork/)), she definitely can paint great draperies: https://www.juliebell.com/portfolio/items/vermillion/

I guess >>6671969 must be an early work.

>>6665672

It's a load of mumbo jumbo pseudo-psychological BS, that associates sensitivity and understanding only with femininity.

>>6665672
he's not wrong if you consider sensibility/soul a feminine trait, not all artists have it tho

>>6666954
why are the horse's legs like that? is he turning?

>>6673625
Leonardo's control over temperature is just as where he wants it. Old masters didn't have the meme of "temperature" in the exact same way that modern painters think of them today, but that doesn't mean that what they were doing is less difficult or that they look worse. Drapery by Leonardo and most old masters is still more confident in application of the paint, despite having less photographic impression.
Even today there are many painters who try to paint like old masters but can't do it well. Instead it's more likely that they paint in the more photographic style as Julie Bell, by accident.

i think hes just closet trans lol, that said gay men make wonderful artists and writers.

>>6667737
pyw and your #

>>6665672
It's a reach but it is now known that the original cave paintings were done by women, a lot of pre-history artworks were done by women as well. It's also obvious in history that men weren't fully able to stop women from exploring the arts and they still left a mark despite the harsh strict codes that were imposed upon them.

Personally though, who cares if it's true. But it is true that feminine men and women do have to try harder than the average man at art because no one takes them seriously. For a woman to be respected she have to absolutely excel at it. Mediocre women will only be mocked.

This happened in japan when a lot of female authors created good mangas but the most they got out of it was respect, not the reverence that other male authors received. Despite what you would see in plebbit where women whore themselves out in front of cameras, attractive men get even more likes than the women.

I think it's obvious even in kpop. The men rein in more money than the women.

Saying that women are superior than men just because they have a vagina and saying that women automatically have it easy in arts because they have a vagina are equally stupid.