/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Been doing little value studies of paintings. To get a grip in oil paint but also as an exercise in simplification and getting to the essence of a composition, it is actually quite fun to break down paintings like this. Soon I will be going outside to apply this to real landscapes.

>>6653924
these are beautiful, anon

>>6653933
Thanks anon. Can recommend this exercise to anyone. Just take black, white and mix a midtone and then recreate any image you like from art books you may have lying around. Keep the paint neat and separated and don't mix or blend on the canvas.

It really trains you to simplify and look for abstract shapes. Then if you feel more confident, mix a few more values and apply those.
One thing I can't stress enough is to avoid blending at all cost, it will just create a mess, instead if you feel like an edge is too hard you just put a middle value between it.

I made it out the other side of hands

>>6653924
Very dreamlike, good job anon

>>6653924
this is art in and of itself

>>6653924
Looks incredible anon!

Trying to learn how he does values and color. Was very challenging but fun.

I forgot some details and highlights >>6655815, @#%^$%!

>>6655815
>>6655830
That's good practice for sure

Hand drawing binge from the last 3 days

>>6655371
juicy

>>6655815
great study

>>6653924
I've really got to try this

>>6658020
>>6658021
>>6658022
>>6658023
>>6658024
>>6658027
>>6658029
>>6658030
Excellent work!!!

>>6658020
>>6658021
>>6658022
>>6658023
>>6658024
>>6658027
>>6658029
>>6658030
Excellent work!!!

anons that are copying bridgman, how yall doing?
hows the progress, do u guys feel that bridge of man has helped?

jej

>>6660191
>>6660652
Finch's advice is unironically some of the best out there. He tells you to copy Bridgman from observation, then again memory, while also applying your knowledge to figure studies. Only gripe is that you should of course practice your imagination too. If you do the entire excersize you'll have improved your observation, memory, knowledge on muscle origins, insertions, and actions, how to simplify the forms of the body, and gesture. On top of all that it's a goal to work towards and helps with consistency and just drawing. He's not telling (You) to draw an arbitrary amount of boxes out of spite or to purchase the new rinotuna. If you're willing to put in the effort this absolutely works. How could you not improve if you do all that? If you think this advice is a meme then I don't know what to tell you. The book is free. This is my work. jej.

>>6660768
this, but unironically. idk what you get out of posting merc, but what you stated was correct

>>6660785
cause the crab wants candy but im giving him green beans. duh.

Sketching from kjg

>>6658378
thanks! <3

>>6659836
You have a natural talent for butt drawing, anon. I wonder how far you'll go...

Studying animals from Jack Hamm

>>6661021
>>6661022
>>6661023
Butts are my favorite thing to draw, it's true
These look great btw

More Hamm

>>6662414
thanks anon. I really like the line quality you have now. I remember a year ago, we were complaining about your lines lol.

Fellas I think it's over for me, I can't improve anymore I've hit my ceiling
These two were done 3 months apart
I truly can't learn

>>6662974
Which one is the new one?

>>6662585
Lol I remember
It's hard to concentrate on line quality AND recall at the same time so I'm glad it's improved

I drew along with this for 20 minutes: https://youtu.be/r71zAlnA2-s

Really, should've worked on it for at least an hour, but nature calls

>>6664757
looking good

>>6662974
you're not bad, anon. Keep doing these every day, and you're sure to improve

>>6653769
When appproaching a study of a drawing do you guys go full autism measure mode? Straight lines for angles, plumb lines, envelopes, sighting, or do you just observe? Which is better?

>>6662974
Make sure you're not just copying the lines. The idea is to build up a process.
>>6665496
Thanks, you too!

bump

janky sketches

>>6666258
>>6668487
nice

>>6666117
I try my best to get it as close as possible to the reference, but I don't measure very hard. I just use my eyes, and occasionally I'll use plumb lines and negative space

Finch said if he couldn't capture a study right, he'd draw it 5 times, and by the fifth time he'd get it down pretty easy

>>6669965
>>6669972
Very pretty and lively hands

>>6653924
Nice. What’s your general work flow? I’ve been trying to do value studies but I always lose motivation after it ends up looking like s-h-i-t

practicing from "Night of the Living Cat". It's a pretty amusing manga

>>6670035
good legs.

>>6671473
kitties <3

>>6672164
>>6673593
you're improving! It's getting harder to distinguish between the memory drawing and the correction

Um, guys, what do I do if I try to draw what I copied from memory and it turns out looking nothing like what I drew?

>>6675185
that's the natural result. You just gotta keep doing it. Start with smaller chunks. Try doing a memory drawing on only just an eyeball, or a finger. The more familiar you are with the subject matter, the easier the memory drawing will be, so these smaller studies will help you build up to that

What are some good examples of subjects for grayscale value studies?

>>6675560
You can look at the works of professional photographers, and try to breakdown the light/shadows and values.

>>6675180
Thanks! That's encouraging!
Last one here failed and I ran out of room anyway so I'll just redo it tomorrow

Prison school

>>6675648
I see no failure…

>>6677099
Nice booba!!

lately, I feel like my copying skill has improved. not only can i copy it faster, I don't have as many corrections to make and can get the final lines in one go. it's a good feeling

>>6677560
those hamstrings are definitely improved!

>>6678494
>>6678496
Love the shape language, especially on the legs

Practicing clothing folds

>>6679032
thank you <3 but your legs look better

>>6680086
>>6680087
I do really like Bridgman's legs. Nice drapery!

hi friends i kinda gave up on art and life for awhile but im back to trying and im determined to turn things around, ill probably be posting in here more often, this is the first thing i've really drawn in the past 6 months, done in about an hour, hope you've all been well!

totemo tanoshii!

>>6681361
it would be a huge loss if someone as good as you gave up on art... hope to see more art soon!

>>6680389
very solid architecture

>>6681361
In an hour? Amazing!
>>6681592
>>6681593
Thanks!

I've done around 60 copies and they still look like shit

I am a lost cause?

>>6681896
>doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results

>>6681592
>>6681613
thanks guys, glad to see you are all still grinding and keeping /msg/ alive, keep up the great work!

>>6681896
it looks pretty good anon, dont beat yourself up but dont keep looping over the same problem, step back and analyze what you are not happy with, and what you want from your piece

continuing my clothing study from Bakuman

>>6681613
i found memory drawings to be especially very helpful for simple diagrams like that of the knee. Just producing those from memory makes them sink in for a long time, compared to trying to memorize a full figure, it seems. I hope you find you're getting a lot out of this

>>6681896
60 copies is a baby number, anon! Bridgman's book has 1000+ diagrams!

Your copy looks fine, btw. Keep doing them!

>>6682119
that's exactly how it works! You become literally a smarter human when you do studies, and what you're capable of changes.

>>6681896
look at your copy
does it really look like a copy to you?
you've proven that you can draw a lot very quickly, now its time to focus on quality

come back when you've done as many longer studies as you've done sketch studies

>>6682240
Thanks!
>>6683027
Yes, I have a mental tally of "favorite" diagrams that I will continue to spaced-repetition until I know them by rote after this marathon

sketching from wha

>>6683233
>>6684506
good knees

>>6685437
Thanks! Good witches

>>6685795
i love the ghostliness of the bottom left sketch

>>6686863
Thanks!

>>6688425
You’re almost done, anon!

>>6689633
It's insane

Felt like I had to practice faces again. When I stopped studying them, my faces fell apart in my personal work too. Strange...

>>6690132
do you happen to have a blog that you post under atm? Would love to follow you and see where you go

>Bridgman anon is gone

>>6692574
THE POST NEVER SENT LAST NIGHT AND I DIDN'T REALIZE AAGHH
But I did do them. Double post incoming sorry

>>6690917
I don't as of yet but I'll certainly let people know when I do. What about yourself?

Tips for Birdgman memory copies? They are way harder than I thought. How long should I be looking before I close the book? I tried and it was an absolutely shamefur display, so here's some tree roots instead...

>>6692713
>>6692714
I'll post my blog when you make a blog :)

>>6693349
they are very hard. Stare at them for a long long time, memorize it, and then do it as accurately as possible. You will only have the energy to do one memory drawing per day, at first. Eventually, it gets very fast, because Bridgman uses the same lines over and over again, and you can get his "system" of drawing into your brain very easily

Do you think pic related could be done using only primary colors with gouache?

>>6693990
yeah

>>6694136
no studies from me today, but im very happy to see you're almost done with the book, are there any plans after Bridgman? Will you keep doing master copies, or should we let this thread die after? I'll keep posting if you will, but frankly it's sad seeing this general gasping for air (since its basically just us now)

I also don't mind if you start wanting to post in another thread, to get more attention, btw. I don't study consistently enough anymore (and that's probably something I should change, if i want to be serious about improving)

>>6695044
I'll post a longer post on my post-bridgman plans when I get to my desktop. Hey, I used "post" as a verb, noun, and preposition all in one sentence!

>>6695254
OK, so with the memory drawings coming to a close soon (especially the body drawings, I plan to make a close study of drapery later) I think at the very least I'm going to take a bit of a breather (from daily regimented studies, not from daily drawing) before deciding exactly what I want to do next. I know I want to tackle Loomis heads, but I'm not sure if I should do the same technique for Loomis as I did for Bridgman. Also, I think I might want to do a Bridgman "refresher" - while I was going through the book I noticed a few plates here and there that seemed particularly important or instructive - I might take a week and just obsessively copy, reproduce, fix, etc. them with spaced repetition until I have them ingrained. When David Finch streams his studies, he seems to do one from reference and then immediately reproduce it from memory. I wonder if this wouldn't have been more effective for me because there were definitely studies where I wasn't focused on producing the part, but remembering the angle of a certain line or solid, which is very difficult for me for some reason. I think my visual memory is actually really sub-par, I have to think of things in words and mnemonics to remember them, it's very hard for me to "envision" something specifically, so remembering at what angle a box was rotated in 3D space, for example, was particularly difficult. The commitment to doing one a day also wore on me - I'm glad I did it, but there were definitely days where I phoned it in and didn't get much out of it. Weirdly, sometimes I'd procrastinate my Bridgman studies by doing Morpho studies and easily fill four or five pages just doing spaced repetition exercises, and I felt like I got a lot more out of that. Maybe a less-regimented style works better for me. Regardless, I don't regret the grind. I know this isn't the last time I'll do something like this, and Bridgman will be with me for a long time.

>>6696323
As for the future of the thread, I don't really care about my studies being recognized. I wish the general was more active for /ic/'s sake because I really think that studies are a fantastic (maybe the best?) way to improve drawing skill, and honestly these threads are kind of an oasis for me in a sea of crabbing and ai trolling. I still have some time to finish Bridgman before I have to really decide what to do next, but I might take a little mini-vacation from daily studies and just draw some fun bullshit for a few days to a week.

>>6696323
>>6696325
>>6696416
sounds good! I'll keep drawing and try to keep the general alive, while you take a break.

For Loomis, the best way to approach it is to just draw heads from artists you like, using his method. I tried copying the images he has, but I didn't have the skill, or the interest, to get those intricately rendered portraits of realistic faces. I wanted to jump into anime heads right away, so that's what I've been studying this whole time. I would also buy a 10 dollar skull from amazon and draw from that too, as the skull is pretty easy to understand and takes you a long way towards structure.

Do feel free to quit the memory drawings before the drapery section, as it's barely enough to teach you drapery, and you won't learn much about anatomy or figure drawing from doing them. Drapery is better learned from copying artists or drawing from life / photos.

Also, doing the memory drawing after copying it is a better method, because it's easier and gets you the same results, I think. My personal work changed in a matter of days when I did that series of memory drawings from manga several months ago. I wish I had the discipline to do them more, because the improvement is pretty immediate. Moving forward, I think you can just do that

Anyways, once you finish Bridg, enjoy the break! You've earned it

>>6697347
Thanks, I definitely will!

I think I found my new favorite artist, Yamataka Morito. Goodbye, witch hat atelier...

>>6697579
good feet

memory drawing done immediately after

>>6698486
>>6698487
Looks great! I love discovering a new artist - a whole new wealth of material to draw from.

>>6698904
Any artists you have your eye on, for after Bridgman?

>>6700011
Yoh Yoshinari, I think. Gonna try to get a copy of his sketchbook.

Just drawing the same thing over and over again, because I couldn't get it right. I have like 6 other pages I'm not posting lol

>>6700104
good choice! one of the best artists alive now

>>6701314
>>6701317
Nice! Getting those reps in!

my drawing ability is improving too slowly >:(

>>6701503
im terrified of your rapid growth. those toes in the middle are done really well.

>>6653769
Vg spoof

oh, so this is the thread where the people who actually draw are

>>6702601
"Copying isn't drawing,"
-Glenn Vilppu, 2014

>>6702554
Thank you! Noob gains feel good, once you get to a certain level it takes a lot longer and a lot more effort to make little improvenents.

>>6702979
the drawing on the right is Vilppu's master copy of Michelangelo's sibyll

Copying from life is no good.

Copying from the masters is perfect.

done

>>6704180
Congrats! honestly one of the greatest things to have come out of /ic/. How does it feel to know you have your future as a professional artist officially secured?

I hope you keep posting your studies here. It's very motivating to have someone to draw along with, and to keep each other accountable

>>6704183
>Congrats! honestly one of the greatest things to have come out of /ic/. How does it feel to know you have your future as a professional artist officially secured?
Lol thank you. It feels great, but it definitely feels like I just took my first step towards being a /pro/ rather than the last ;) Gonna take it easy and just draw whatever I want for a week, then nail down some Bridgman plates that feel super vital, and then start grinding some portraiture.

>>6705456
Looking forward to what you do moving forward!

Would you say this is a good study on Bouguereau's The Broken Pitcher? I replaced the pitcher with a plastic jug but I rendered it pretty poorly.

>>6707723
It's a good study if you got the knowledge that you wanted from it, or some other thing you didn't know you would find out.

>>6707825
Fair play. I learned a lot about his subtle hue variations in skin tone and contrast in values. I also learned how much of a genius he is and how far away he is in skill. Lol.

>>6707723
I think, if your study looks mildly bad, you’re doing it right, because studies should push you out of your comfort zone. Too bad, and you’re going too far out, but if your study looks too good, you’re probably better off moving onto something else you have trouble with

>>6706708
Thanks! Here are some copies. The first couple are Bridgman, most are morpho, and there's some Stonehouse at the end. As you can see I rewarded myself by getting a scanner :)
These were done in the course of a couple hours; I've spent the last few days working on an illustration and grinding heads / watching head courses.

1/6

6/6

>>6709050
I agree, but with the caveat that bad is subjective. I can point out many things in my study that I think I did quite poorly but somebody might not be able to see them like I can. Studies are definitely supposed to get you out of your comfort zone as that's the whole purpose.

>>6709288
>>6709289
>>6709290
>>6709291
>>6709292
>>6709294
I'm so glad you're back! You handle a pencil really well. Morpho is an amazing guy to study from. Is your Yoshinari book coming soon?

>>6709561
true true

Boldini study wip

>>6710733
Good values so far anon

>>6709288
i really want to see your original illustrations after all this work

>>6710864
Is it OK if it's cheesecake? Lol

>>6710897
yeah

>>6710916
Alright when I finish my current illustration I'll post a progress pic showing before/after my bridgmarathon

First time looking at this thread and it’s very comfy. Might do some studies tonight. Keep it up anons!

>>6711268
Yes!

>>6710916
The latest pic isn't quite "finished" yet but it's close enough, not bad for 18 months!

>>6711797
fullsize

>>6711799
>>6711797
nice progress! now its really time to work on faces

>>6711799
sexy

>>6711797
>>6711799
legendary

>>6711760
you have such nice line quality

Just discovered this thread and I would like to thanks everyone of you for your post, very interesting read for me.

I've restart drawing this may after a 6 month break. I've begun Keys To Drawing last year in september or october but I stopped it until last month. i'm in chapter 3, profile section and so far I can feel that I've made some improvement on how to see and copy. I can have good proportion much faster than before and sometimes without measuring they look almost right, and it was impossible last month.

I'd like to know your advice. Should I continue to go trough KtD or should I begin to studie masters and copying Bridgman ?
And is there any requierement before copying them ?

I've also draw since few weeks cubes, cylinder or sphere now and then, I cant twist some of them but I struggle with giving a 3D feeling to my twisted cylinder.

Thanks again.

>>6711797
incredible progression. congratulation man

>>6712620
i can twist*

>>6711797
>>6711799
saved!

>>6712620
Do master copies! No requirement! You may want to watch the krenz cushart video from /asg/, on learning to copy cartoons as a good first step to drawing.

>>6711801
>>6711891
>>6711923
>>6712620
>>6713097
Thanks everyone! This general was a big help, it's on to skulls and faces til my hand falls off! (This one's not a study but it's a fairly TB Choi type beat so close enough)

>>6711801
>>6711891
>>6711923
>>6712620
>>6713097
Thanks everyone! This general was a big help, it's on to skulls and faces til my hand falls off! (This one's not a study but it's a fairly TB Choi type beat so close enough)

>>6711801
>>6711891
>>6711923
>>6712620
>>6713097
Thanks everyone! This general was a big help, it's on to skulls and faces til my hand falls off! (This one's not a study but it's a fairly TB Choi type beat so close enough)

>>6713097
Thanks man

I've few more questions:

When you copy Bridgeman for the first, do you just copy the lines without any pratical dialogue or you try to name or understand the thing you copy ? I've also see in the previous posts yesterday that they were method to "think" when you draw, what is it ?

>>6713225
The latter. Fortunately bridgman explicitly spells out his process in the beginning of the book.

>>6713226
okay thanks you very much guys

>>6713198
Good skull!

>>6714169
Thanks! I'm doing some Will Weston heads now and trying to apply them to stylized stuff, I've always loved the TF2 comics' artstyle so I figured now is as good a time as any to go through them. The head work is giving me even more appreciation for your studies, especially given how intimidating anime heads are to me. It's so much easier drawing older craggly men than young pretty women - there's so much negative space on their faces, you really have to have a good eye for distances and angles!

>>6714491
Thanks, that’s really nice of you to say. I like that study of yours, I hope you continue and find your favorite guy to emulate

I finished it i think

>>6715352
>>6715353
Thanks, I'm doing some TB Choi to try to become hairpilled, as I've never really given it a go before (as evidenced by my muscle girl >>6711799), I definitely admire your hair drawing ability.
>>6715417
Incredible, especially the fingers, you really implied a lot of detail about them with such simple, deliberate strokes.

Challenged myself to do a painting study with nothing but hard round, and take less than 3 hours. I think it went okay.

>>6715557
Really nice! That gossamer material is really reading well.

>>6715417
>>6715557
Amazing. Out of this world

>>6716338
You look like you’re having so much fun with these! Glen keane was one of the first guys I really fell in love with too, though I didnt think to copy his work back then

>>6716544
Thanks! I won't post too many portrait studies ITT since they're technically not "master" studies, but I feel like for my first "real" attempt at a photo study (in a long, long time) it went pretty well and I should preserve this for posterity at least, since master studies were the reason it went so smoothly!

>>6716544
Thanks! I won't post too many portrait studies ITT since they're technically not "master" studies, but I feel like for my first "real" attempt at a photo study (in a long, long time) it went pretty well and I should preserve this for posterity at least, since master studies were the reason it went so smoothly!

>>6716613
you know, lately I've just been drawing things from photos too, because there are just too many things that aren't in manga that I want to study. I don'[t have any manga that show bare feet extensively, and that's a weak point I've been wanting to work on.

I'm thinking of turning this thread into "Studies general" or "/JustDraw/ General", where you can post any kind of study, both master studies and photo studies. It'll free people up to do what they want and study whatever. I'll include both the David Finch master study streams along wtih the Feng Zhu drawing videos in the OP

What do you think?

>>6716613
good portrait by the way. I think digital studies are amazing because you can correct yourself, and that's an important part of the learning process imo

>>6717417
>>6717419
>>6717422
Thanks! Nice feeta. Maybe like "amsg" Applied Master Studies general? So, photo studies are good but the idea is you should be applying what you've learned from your master studies? And of course master studies are still welcomed and encouraged to be posted.

>>6717458
"Applied master studies general" would be kinda confusing desu, I was thinking of just grouping all kinds of studies together into one thread, because half the posters here seem to want to copy photos, but they end up quiting the thread because of the name "msg"

Here's a mockup of the resources in the op:

Master studies:
https://youtu.be/ZqJ2h4Jw5nU
https://youtu.be/7ukExmlSRWU
https://youtu.be/Z2CZKX089w0
https://youtu.be/ko7H8FGwks8

Photo studies:
https://youtu.be/22XYoenU-0c
https://youtu.be/WLqWX7onVmU
https://youtu.be/1d577v_XBKA
https://youtu.be/3YXTlF4hzaE

I like master studies a lot, and I definitely think they're the main thing that teaches you technique, design, form, composition, etc. but I don't want to discriminate against drawing from life or photos, and I think they're valuable in different ways, and if you want to be a well rounded artist, you need to grow your visual library as much as possible, and sometimes there just isn't that density of information in other artist's works. I noticed this recently, in seeing David Finch's work, how he's an absolute expert in muscular superhero figures, but his female figures are very lacking, and I think that's because he's primarily copied superhero comics.

But mostly, I just want more people posting, with a great diversity of works. idk

>>6717469
Yeah man go for it! Whatever you think is right. I've deeply enjoyed these threads, so whatever it takes to keep them alive is fine by me.

>>6717472
Thanks <3 I'll change the name and op on the next thread, after this one hits bump limit.

Btw, some people might say these generals are redundant, but I know that the biggest thing that held me back as as beginner was the lack of information / conflicting information, so I think having generals that have good resources at the top are really important in guiding people to study properly. If you find anything cool about studying, please link it!

>>6717474
agreed! And actually you already got the vids I would recommend!

I'm the KtD guy. You should not stop this thread, really, I plan on posting here but I'm working trough my forms and Loomis so I don't think it's worth posting here. I'll post when I'll begin Hampton.

Thanks for your ressources, specialy you >>6711797 . I read all of your posts on my other thread and they are very valuable information and it's good to see your evolution and having your advices.

Thanks to all of you.

>>6718252
post here anyways, anon! The only way to learn to draw is by drawing, aka making studies.

i love feet

>>6716613
don't slack off! Keep drawing!

>>6718652
Definitely! I'm still drawing every single day, just not posting on /ic/ as much lately

>>6718971
You know, that’s great. I’ve wanted to quit ic since a year ago, since all the ai crap started, but I stuck it out to see you finish Bridgman. Now that you’ve done it, and made tremendous progress, I feel happy, but it’s also a good time to let this thread die. I don’t really want to become a 4chan artist, after all.

I wish you luck on all your endeavors. If we both become famous artists, maybe someday we can recognize each other again. Goodbye, Bridganon

>let the only thread on the board that's actually about drawing die
it's over

>>6719206
There's no 'drawing' here, only copying.

>>6719206
/lsg/ isn't drawing? /crab/ isn't drawing? /salt/ isn't drawing?
So fucking full of yourself, printer.

>>6719240
>>6719248
holy seethe kek where the fuck did you pop out of

>>6719002
If giving up /ic/ is what will be good for you, then do so! But drop your blog before you go so you don't disappear!

>>6719002
If giving up /ic/ is what will be good for you, then do so! But drop your blog before you go so you don't disappear!

>>6720498
I was only going to quit if you were going to quit! I like this thread, but I can't be the only one here!

I like your forms on the face, again! I think her hairline is a bit high though

Also, my blog is my full name, so I'm kinda iffy on posting it here. If you happen to post under an alias, I could follow you...

>>6719206
it's not over if you also post your work!

bump

>>6723242
thanks fren, but im guess about everyone itt is burned out. Maybe it can be revived again in the future, but it's time to let it die.

Better to draw in a different place from this toxic site, than to sink into oblivion among the thousands of anonymous posts.

Benson copy i declare finished

>>6723398
that's very beautiful, anon. You handled the light on the fabric very well

>>6723362
Not burned out just yet! Portraits can be frustrating though, I can just feel how much mileage I still need.
>>6723398
Beautiful, I agree with the other anon about the materials. Really great interplay of warm and cool colors as well.

>>6723638
Ahh, you're doing fine. If you're having too much trouble, check out Jack Hamm and see if you agree with the way he breaks things down

>>6724908
Thanks; I will!

Bumperino

Still plugging away, rest assured. Here are some loomis heads.

>>6729510
looking good bro.

>>6730670
thanks!

have been working on pen and ink stuff, but I can't quite figure out texture and how to cover large areas of tone with little hatch lines

>>6731137
good repetition! that's the way to learn!

>>6732494
Thanks! Still doing them every day, not posting every one, especially since yesterday's were so bad.

Loomis heads are pissing me off, desu. Maybe I'll make my own post about them, but stuff like picrel where the "middle line" of the ball, which has famously been the brow line, is now in the middle of the eye socket. There's stuff like that here and there in the book and it's throwing me off. I'm trying to just give myself over completely to it and see what I can learn, but so far I vastly prefer Will Weston and TB Choi's methods. I'm gonna re-watch David Finch's video tomorrow and see if that helps.

>>6734299
Oh I hate Loomis. I just start with the ball and I scribble out the forms. When it's off, I correct it.

The problem with the Loomis method is that it's too rigid. Most of the time, an artist's underdrawing is loose and scribbly, and you slowly refine it layer after layer. Only advanced artists can "one shot" a perfect Loomis head without correcting it. If you watch Finch's video, his is very rough too.

It's better to just do studies to learn heads (which is what you're doing, and that's great) I learned head drawing mostly when I was doing figure drawing (like pic related), and I'd just copy the head from the figure. Drawing the head thousands of times, from many angles, is the only way to develop fluency in head drawing (imo).

Knowing the skull really well is also important, and those skull studies of yours are great. I think you're going in the right direction.

>>6734299
one more thing to add, I think the most important measurement for head drawing is the fact that the eyes are pretty much always halfway from the top to bottom. If the eyes aren't there, the head won't look realistic. You can move the eyes down to make the head more chibi and cute, or you can move them up to make the head more adultish / ghoulish, but it has to be done with a purpose.

After that, the eyebrows are always just a little bit above the eyes, and then the nose is halfway from the eyebrows to the chin. The bottom lip is halfway from the nose to the chin.

If you can get those measurements, you're set. After that ,just block in whatever shape you want for the head (square, triangle, oval, figure 8, etc), block in the front and side planes, then find the eyes, eyebrows, nose, and mouth. These measurements can be found in Vilppu's drawing manual and Araki's manga making book

I don't work using Loomis' process, but those measurements I pretty much always keep in mind.

>>6734299
sorry if im being really patronizing or if you already knew this stuff, but sometimes the most basic stuff is obscured by fluff.

I'm not trying to make it sound easy either. I DID study faces for the last whole year, and even now I'm not where I want to be

>>6653769

>>6735316
>>6735476
>>6735486
Not patronizing at all, actually reassuring because that's basically how I was finding drawing the head to work for me. No matter what I do, I find my Loomis heads look wonky and my more "jazzy" heads and skulls have better proportions and shape. But I'm not so good at that 50's advertising style, and so I figure I should see what I can learn from Loomis because obviously there's some sort of knowledge gap, and I find that doing these Loomis heads is helping me refine my heads in general, anyway. I think I have much much more to learn, even from this book.

>>6735915
yes, that's a good idea, to give yourself over completely to one approach. I'm actually trying to do that too, with Loomis' figure drawing book. These figures were measured using his "intelligent measuring" approach, though, I don't know how helpful it is to hold up your pencil and measure with it.

Actually, I currently feel kinda lost as to how to improve my work even more, atm. I'm not sure if I should be doing studies from life, from masters, etc. or if I should be doing figure drawing, landscape drawing, if I should be doing tonal work, or pen and ink work, etc. maybe that's why what I've been posting has been kinda all over the place

>>6735915
sometimes though, I wonder just how necessary it is to copy the figure 1:1 when you're drawing from life. I feel like I get just as much, if not more, if I just make things up and use the model as an inspiration. If anything, instead of trying to pick up 100% of the visual information I get from the model, I get 50% instead, but I end up with a nice drawing and I reinforce the stylization choices I got from doing master copies. Lots of animation artists recommend this way of working, where you don't copy the model, but you just filter the model through your own design choices.

But on the other hand, what if I'm not learning anything if I work this way? I mean, if I'm not drawing what I see, am I really learning? I might as well be drawing from imagination, right?

It's confusing... also, sorry for dumping this all on you, i guess im just trying to figure stuff out through writing about it

>>6735915
those are nice studies btw. I don't think you have much to worry about as far as head drawing goes

>>6737382
>sometimes though, I wonder just how necessary it is to copy the figure 1:1 when you're drawing from life. I feel like I get just as much, if not more, if I just make things up and use the model as an inspiration.
V I L P P U
I
L
P
P
U

>>6737502
idk man, i plateaued for a while when I studied Vilppu, and I only broke through that plateau when I forced myself to copy references accurately. In fact, vilppu has a chapter on measuring in his book.

In the end, I think I've decided that copying accurately and not editing what you're seeing is the best way to draw from life. Of course, if all you want to draw are anime heads, with realistic bodies, then you don't need to copy the heads.

>>6737451
Thanks; I think I'm going to blow through Loomis and not worry about getting it 100% correct while grinding different methods of portraiture and seeing what works for me. I almost never copy a model directly, it's too boring for me lol.

>>6739198

>>6739198
>>6739200
I can see improvement in these already, compared to>>6734299

great job!

random question:
If you shine a purple light on a painted green wall, what color does the green wall become?

>>6739305
I'm gonna be a mangaka, so I don't need to know the answer to that question ;)

>>6739305
grurple
but seriously it would just shift a bit towards blue green

>>6737341
>>6737382
>>6737451
>This thread is dedicated to master studies, where you copy *artwork* you admire as a form of study.
>posts random figure studies
?

>>6725113
>The bottom of the nose is pretty good, you got the side and bottom planes of the nostrils, which a lot of people simplify into a formless mess. Everything else is ok but needs checking, your angles are a bit off and so are your proportions. The crook of the nose is greatly exaggerated, your chin is too small, your neck is not wide enough. I think your ear is too high (compare the end of your nose against the end of your ear, you'll see the difference). Your jawline is pretty good, and I can see that you're going for the correct structure of the mouth, though her mouth is shaped differently.
Also, it's very important to mark somehow the zygomatic, you can usually spot it because it's where the light and shadow separate on the side of the face (because the zygomatic makes a big plane change on the face, of course light will change with it). I like your work though, you're doing great!

>>6735584
>>6741753
these are super nice dude, keep going!

>>6725113
Be careful with the lines on the neck, her neck looks twisted. Would look better if the most of the lines (not the jaw or under the chin) were removed.

>>6740381
>>6742244
Thanks; some of the inaccuracies are because I was going for a character based off the reference rather than a direct copy, but some of them were unintentional and I'll take another look at them. The lines on the neck were to mark the sternocleidomastoid but I agree it looks odd.
>>6739232
Thanks! I think the last one here was the most successful. I'll definitely be grinding the ones where they look up, it has NOT clicked yet.

>>6742422
also my brain is broken so I was laughing to myself doing this one thinking of this

>>6739318
sorry, but i was thinking of expanding this general to any kind of study. It would just be called /Studies/ General/.

>>6742422
>>6742433
I think you're doing great, though, after 2 weeks, I think you should move on from heads and start emulating artists and doing lots of body language studies (gesture drawing).

Head drawing takes years and years to really refine and get to a tremendous level, so it's better to keep improving your heads while studying from artists you like.

imo you've already got the basics of heads down. Just keep sketching from your skull occassional, and start studying artists. you'll be fine

>>6742422
>>6742433
I mean, i don't mean to distract you from your plans. I know you said that you wanted to immerse in Loomis' teachings for a while, and I think you can do that. My previous post was written thinking you kept wanting to follow the Finch roadmap. You can do whatever you'd like, I just don't want you to be so hard on yourself and spin your wheels forever

>>6744190
>>6744196
Yeah, I get what you mean, I feel like I'm "putting off" what I really want to do, which is learn how to render pleasing figures. I'm also really frustrated with the Loomis method because I feel like it's not working for me very well, the heads come out wonky, especially when looking up. The bottom row in pic related was done from imagination, and middle bottom turned out really well. The thing is, I didn't use "the Loomis method" but a hybrid of methods. HOWEVER, I'm still making headway and I think there's more I can learn from them, so I'll continue to grind until I feel like I'm fully spinning my wheels, as you said. I think I had a bit of a breakthrough recently where I discovered I've been treating the "sphere" of the head way too small in relation to the jaw, so we'll see if that realization results in any gains.

Also - over 200 Loomis heads drawn so far!

Am I a lost cause?

This is my 50th copy
I even increased the time to 30 min

I'm losing my mind. I'm worthless

This is my process
I start with by shapes and block in and everything

What am I doing wrong?

Am I just not made for this?

Just tell me so I can kill myself already

>>6744233
>>6744235
Are you the 6 month schizo?

>>6744241
perhaps...

>>6744244
OK, I'm going to give you advice but I'm not going to continue replying to you. In return please don't hang out in the thread and argue with advice and doompost.

This is fine for 30 minutes. Keep in mind with Bargue plates you're expected to spend like 4-6 hours on copying a single eye.

Your accuracy is no longer going to hold you back from studies. From this point on do breakdowns instead of rote copies. Build up the figure with construction (gesture -> shape ->form) instead of sight-size measuring, but use your measuring methods to check your work. A warning: your drawings will be much less accurate for a while, it is going to feel like a huge step back. Just push through. After breaking down a study, take some time and then re-draw it from imagination using the same process that you used in your study. Again, this is going to turn out much worse, but if you stick with it you will learn. Do not come in to the threads crying and moaning and suicidal when these don't turn out like you hoped. It will take months *at least* before your memory drawings don't look like absolute shit. That's normal, chill out. Again, please don't shit up this thread with your awful attitude. You're welcome to stick around, but before you hit 'submit' just delete all the parts of your post that contain suicidal bitching.

>>6744248
Ok that is a fair compromise

Thank you for treating me like a human being

I have 3 months left to try and I promise to not come back with suicidal attitude nor here nor in any other thread

Thank you again.

>>6744233
>>6744235
>>6744244

I don't know if you get some sort of adrenaline rush by having people label you as the "suicidal NGMI schizo" because this is like the 3rd time I see the same response (down to the reply and image attached) around the board within a week or so but god damn dude, have some self-compassion with yourself.

Art is tough, even the best artists you admire & look up to went through this phase. I think you'd benefit from working within a much more forgiving time frame (an hour perhaps?) so you can give yourself some time to think, analyze and put down a mark that rings true to what you're seeing.
I've seen the pieces you've posted in the past and this artist you're trying to copy from has some subtle curve/line shifts that can be hard to capture. Have you tried picking something that is difficult but not chock-full of anatomical nuances? beating yourself up over a drawing that is probably miles ahead of your current skill level will do you no good.

I have no idea what this "3 month" deadline is but just like that anon who replied to you said, measure things around. I too used to measure a lot of shit to the point where it looked like a monthly expenses graphic chart to the point where I'd lose any motivation to draw because everything looked so mechanical but it certainly helps after you've "eye balled" everything to make sure that you're close to the actual mark.

Also, work on your chicken scratching, I'd assume this is also taking a toll on your self confidence because it makes it look amateurish. You don't have to get those subtle curves in a single stroke, you can actually make it look a seamless stroke by picking it up right where you left it by connecting your next curve right where you left the first one. It takes time, but it'd certainly alleviate some of that burden.

Don't give up anon, remember you're only competing against yourself.

I HATE HEADS LOOKING UP
I HATE HEADS LOOKING UP
>We've got you surrounded! Come grind your Loomys!

>>6745801
>>6745801
how many hours a day or a week do you study?

>>6746316
probably around an hour a day, why?

I still feel like I have the most success when I *don't* use the Loomis method, but knowing his structure and preference for defining the major planes is a helpful augment to the process I prefer (last head middle row was the closest to the reference IMO and I used a bastardized weston method). Regardless, I'm going to press on, as I feel like it's been slowly unlocking. Also it's exceedingly difficult to get a consistent head with this method, because if one measurement is a little off, the whole thing falls apart. I'm having trouble envisioning the "sphere" when drawing from reference, since the Loomis sphere is so much bigger than other head construction methods and you end up cutting away so much of it.

This is my first time doing a master study. I wanted to limit myself with only 4 coloured pens and a small format. To be honest I had a lot of fun doing it and understanding the shapes, might do more later.
The painting is called La Chiesa Cattolica by Ottavio Mazzonis. I really like his stuff, kinda reminds me of Leyendecker.

>>6747453
Nice studies! Keep the grind!

>>6747453
>I still feel like I have the most success when I *don't* use the Loomis method, but knowing his structure and preference for defining the major planes is a helpful augment to the process I prefer
This is exactly how I feel about Loomis' heads. It's a good basis to start out with, learning the proportions and planes etc, but there's aspects he glosses over. I feel like I've gotten more out of doing skull and life studies than from Loomis' drawings, I think once you internalize the basic proportions his helpfulness drops off. The 'always start with a sphere' is really limiting and difficult if you're not an experienced draughtsman too, which I think is why it's so hard to get consistent results with it. I find it way easier to start with a rounded box shape which you can easily get in perspective just eyeballing it and build off of that than cutting away at a sphere only to find out you've made it all wonky at the end.

>>6748258
Thanks!
>>6749633
Yes, everything you're saying is exactly how I'm feeling about them.

Posting might be sporadic but rest assured the studies are happening every day. I decided to do something fun, the top three are Yoshinari studies and the rest are from life.

>>6748258
With such limited needs, try focusing on values instead of drawing

>>6744235
> coomer
Yeah, I could help you, but I'm so unwilling to encourage you pursue that kind of trash stuff. Learn to draw, not to arouse yourself. That should help you improve already.

>>6739305
A mix of purple and green, of which the exact quality will depend on the precise setting. That kind of stuff should be covered in your bed-side color theory book (mine's Gurney, but the new one by 3D total looks fine too)

>>6747453
https://www.youtube.com/@bradwynn/videos

watch some of bradwynn jones videos. he uses loomis and reilly method for construction on his portraits. you can learn how to actually use loomis to draw isntead of how to 'draw a circle, now copy the final image from loomis book' that people seem to think it means. youll see how to apply it in real time with him explaining it. you can look up actual loomis plates videos where he does it step by step as well or just watch random portrait video from construction to final renderings.

when people tell you to 'loomis', they mean do what he is doing.

>>6750043
thanks for the channel, so odd that yt has never recommended it to me before. it's exactly hwat I'm interested in

>>6749951
nice kots

>>6748258
maybe try using values that are more contrasted? I've heard of people doing composition studies with only black and white

it's odd, i find myslef oscillating between Vilppu's and Loomis' method for drawing the figure. I can't figure out which one I prefer.

>>6751513
thanks!
>>6750043
Interesting; it seems like it's very atelier-like, with the measuring and angles, I'm looking more for something that will make imaginative drawing of the head easier, which I find easier with Weston's method than Loomis's. Regardless, thanks for the rec, I'll watch some more videos by him as I keep chipping away at Loomis.

>>6751707
forgot to attach my image

>>6741770
Thank you very much anon!

>>6751711
>>6753745
good work bro. those front view heads are so hard to get symmetrical, aren't they

>>6744190
>thinking of expanding this general to any kind of study. It would just be called /Studies/ General/.
That'd be cool

experimental draws

>>6754627
well, we'll see what happens. maybe this general will just die and we'll mercifully forget it ever existed

Bridgeman posts do not belong in /msg/

.

>>6753876
God everything about Loomis heads is hard and sucks. Are we trolling /beg/s or am I getting filtered? Anyway here's to over 300 Loomemes

>>6756610
Why not?

>>6754041
Very nice proportions and gesture. Love all of these

>>6757817
thank you... drawing from life is pretty humbling. After only studying manga for a while, I'm unable to draw realistically, or escape my style.

>>6757815
nice

>>6756826
your heads are great... the fact that you're struggling, but simultaneously able to get a good result.. that means you're right at the edge of your comfort zone, right in the 'growth' zone

>>6757815
looking good!
>>6758243
>>6758287
drawing from life is really fucking hard
>your heads are great... the fact that you're struggling, but simultaneously able to get a good result.. that means you're right at the edge of your comfort zone, right in the 'growth' zone
Thanks, I feel like I am improving at Loomis heads but I still feel like I achieve my best results with a hybrid of approaches. Maybe I'll do 1,000, who knows!

Not many heads today but they're a lot more involved!

Travis Charet's Space Girl Master copy! I might do the inks tomorrow, or I might just do another copy

>>6758521
1000 would be amazing to see

>>6760459
Sugoi!

>>6654225
Are they supposed to be your hands?

>>6760576
sankyuu

>>6760795
You’re probably the best artist on /ic/.

>>6760845
Thanks, lol, but the mecha gen guy is way better than me

>>6760849
The characters face is so full of life, like I’ve met them before.

>>6760852
you're too kind, thanks <3

Man it's weird to see a thread without crabs and all that.
I've been thinking of starting studies, but I'm not exactly sure of how/where to start it.
>>6719248
no /crab/ is about people flinging shit at eachother first then drawing second :^)
t.crab

>>6760795
what's with the hairy legs

>>6761166
tried it out, it's pretty fun, but I need to figure out how to fucking place an eye correctly,

https://hackmd.io/@ArtStudies/ByFMOTa9n

Okay, so I wrote the sticky for the next thread. It's mostly a compilation of existing resources, with some advice on how to navigate it. What do you think? Anything I should add or take out?

>>6761656
au naturel

>>6761769
keep studying! I like your line quality by the way, you set down strokes very beautifully

Left is copy, Right is from memory.

>>6763641
good work again. if you're drawing with a pencil, try using a kneaded eraser more so you can lighten your underdrawing.

>>6761166
>>6761769
you're doing good! if you want to good ways to do studies, the videos in the op are a good start. many ways to do them, though

>>6761656
au naturel

30 sec figures

>>6763887
Yeah, sometimes I leave the guides in so that I can see what process I took
Your visual memory is really impressive
>>6765016
>>6765018
I really really like these!

>>6765837
have you tried doing memory drawings for these? I found that the progress is much faster if you do them. I regret not doing them more, actually. felt like I spun my wheels for a year doing aimless wha copies.

memory drawing. This one is actually more accurate to the character. the first study made him too masculine

>>6766425
Yeah, some are memory drawings or no reference. I'm just pretty fed up with this method, they turn out wonky and I can't get them consistent. He changes up whether or not the brow line intersects the middle of the side plane or if it's above the middle point, the method he uses for drawing the proportions from the front is way unintuitive... I'm burning out hard on these, might take a step back for a bit, haven't decided yet. I found Bridgman and Morpho far more enjoyable.

>>6767388
Drop it! I think you can do that with no regrets. Keep studying heads by doing master copies and skull studies. Method can only take you so far. Mileage and study is what counts, by far

>>6768623
I might do 50/50 Loomis heads and studying whatever I want, especially since I feel like I've been neglecting my figures in exchange for beating my head against a wall. I'd also like to learn to render this year.

>>6768965
those are very nice studies. I wish I had more advice for you on how to manage what stuff to study, but I'm lost on that end too. there's just too much to learn

testing my ability to draw on model. I wonder how quickly I can learn hand drawn animation, starting from scratch…

>>6653924
Hot damn this shit is nice. I’d buy your shit in an instant, do you have any social media ?

>>6729510
Very nice work, what type of pencil are you using?

>>6753745
I prefer the way you draw Loomis heads to Loomis himself lol

>>6693910
Are you allowed to use your own body as a reference? I usually remember the Bridgman poses as a gesture and work my way up from that gesture to inserting the more concrete shapes

>>6769972
>>6771459
>>6771502
>>6773582
Looks good!
>>6773264
Staedtler lead holder with 2h lead, same as daddy finchu
>>6773275
lol thank you! I feel like I'll find a comfortable hybrid if I keep grinding.

Master copies are better after all. Fuck life drawing

>>6773797
Great job on capturing those values! I’m jealous…

Debating whether or not to make the next thread. What do you guys think? Is this general dead?

>>6778097
It's pretty slow but if you only look at drawposts and ignore all the trolling then /ic/ is a really slow board. This is one of the few places where people can actually draw and improve. It's ultimately up to you I guess

>>6780582
okay, I'll continue it then. I hope to see more of your work! It would be sad if you fizzled out after that long Bridgman marathon

New Thread:
>>6780956