/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6617499
Just draw
Discipline is the most important skill

>>6617501
true. Any tips on discipline?

>>6617503
>Any tips on discipline
5 mins a day is enough
It's like a rusted wheel - making it move is the hardest part.

>>6617499
Learn AI to get a job doing art

>>6617514
Alas, I disagree. If learning a skill is like boiling water, then holding a candle to a giant kettle of water will never make it boil. At some point, you need a great enough heat to push the water from room temp to boiling, and after it boils, only then, is it enough to maintain it with just a tiny bit of effort.

So I'd correct you in saying that 30 minutes is enough. 5 is barely enough for a doodle. But thy sentiment ist correct.

>>6617526
It's just a sentiment for those who doubt themselves
Course you will need to proceed to the next harder level

Finally, the best advice of all:

https://davidfinchart.com/where-to-start-and-where-to-go-from-there-a-roadmap-to-professional-quality-art/

>>6617499
worst types of advice
>study study study, study 2 hours a day minimum then study without reference for 2 additional hours a day, make sure you practice all fundamentals for a total of at least 6 hours a day
best types of advice
>draw stuff you'd like to learn how to draw, when you can't figure something out look it up and study it, draw as much as is fulfilling to you in a day

look guys, ill be honest with you, if you never in your life picked up a pencil, or created anything, or had any interest in art.... you wont become an artist now, no matter how much you train
and this isnt because you dont have enough time, or because you missed out on some kinda magical childhood development that no amount of time and effort will be enough
no, its because youre not an artist, you werent born with a passion for it- if you never wanted to make art until you became an adult, you wont be an artist. you might be a painter, or an illustrator, and im sure youll make plenty of stuff that looks pleasant to the eye if you train enough, but none of it will compare to the art of someone whos born an artist. it might have the physical looks or the structure, but not the appeal, the passion, what we call 'soul'

dont feel bad tho, its not that you "missed out", you jus never had it in you
much like how a man can build an aircraft and fly, but he never "missed out" on becoming a bird, he simply wasnt born as one
take what you can get

>>6617503
>>6617514
Can attest to this. Your first day is hell to get you to draw, 2nd, 3rd, etc. are less so, but still pretty bad, but once you get the ball rolling it's so effortless.
Then you take a week long break due to IRL stuff, and coming back feels like you are on day 1 again.
So basically, start drawing, draw daily no matter what, never stop or it's gonna be horrible.

>>6617501
What do you draw after you've drawn everything?

>>6617817
>make sure you practice all fundamentals for a total of at least 6 hours a day
This is what training artists do though. While obviously they are only drawing for their study and rarely working it's not a bad rule of thumb. Just not very feasible if you aren't actively studying art or are a NEET.

>>6617499
Don't be afraid of adopting new things just because twatter cries about it, they would cry about cameras too if it was invented yestereday

>>6618664
I agree with this.

I was thinking that most people here did some drawing as a kid but it turns out that most people complaining are actually starting from zero at age 25+. It sounds very much like a quarter life crisis problem, that these people are desperately trying to find something they're good at. It's impossible to get good with that kind of thinking, do something else, you're just wasting your time trying to bruteforce something that won't happen especially if you aren't even honest with yourself. When you ask them how much they draw, they say 1 hour and not even daily 1 hour, most days they don't even draw. 1 hour a day is nothing, hobbyists can do 1 hour a day and enjoy that 1 hour, but people here that want to get good don't actually put in any effort into it and then complain because what they drew is not immediately good. This is a problem that extends beyond art.

>>6618670
That's easy. You draw what you want to draw but thousands of times.

>>6618664
>>6618788
Unironically post your work. I want to see the art of so called real artists.

>>6618664
You didn't have to slay the manlets like that bro </3 _100_

This is what a guy does for an hour as warm-up, before starting to draw every day.
The shortcut is called "practice"

>>6617514
I'd say 15-20 mns, even if you were used to draw for hours years back. But yeah, consistency is way more important than quantity. You'll have better improvements with 15mns everyday for a week than 1h45 only on sundays.

But sure, after a while you should be able (and willing to) draw more and more. And if you plan to make a living out of it, 7h per day, five days a week is a good pace.

>>6617503
The hardest part is stablishing the habit, so start with something achievable like 20 mins a day every single day. It's better to do 20/day and last a full month, than try to go for 3h daily and quit by the 2nd.
Once you've been going for at least a month not missing a day, you can start gradually increasing the time.

>>6618837
Fix your fragility first.

>>6617499
Why is he naked?

>>6618948

>>6617505
he doesnt even take his own advice for his little avatar. He just draws I's for eyes and the head is completely unrealistic to a human skull. She also has no fingers. So they tell me to do X but they do Y? Why should I listen to them?

>>6619173
huh? You make no sense.

Does anyone have the image of “line style” that tells the light sources, stretches, focusness, and (out of nowhere) Butch Hartman Line Style? And what book or source was that from?
Pic unrelated: Just thought I contribute.

>>6620340
this one? Was never a big fan of the way line weights are used here, but it's standard for North American Comics / animation

>>6620340
oh no, it was this one, by teal line guy

>>6620420
Yeah that one thanks.
>by teal line guy
???

>>6620460
Teal Line Guy (aka Simon) was a prolific redliner back in the day. Helped many an anon.

>>6620663
hes still doing them, he posted a few weeks ago

>>6620685
Nani??

>>6618670
Just keep drawing

>>6620685
where?

>>6618664
I kind of understand what you mean. But even something like soul can be observably added into a drawing. Its something they can do, it just takes the learning as to how to do it.

>>6618664
That's perfectly fine with me, I'm not interested in some vague state of being as an "artist", I want my illustrations to make it to the mainstream and earn money off of it.

My advice
>keep your day job
>if art is your hobby, make it a fun one
>if you make money from commissions, fine - treat like a side hustle, but not a real job
>your progress will be slow if you don't analyze what your weaknesses are, so take time to think about what you suck at and make a plan on how you're going to correct your mistakes
>it's okay to put the pencil down and do other things (ex. read books, lift, cook, call your friends, go out hiking, etc.)

>>6624989
thats just copying

1. Always enjoy what you’re doing. If you’re not it will come through in your work. Somehow. Supposedly people can tell. The lines aren’t right or something?
2. Never, ever sketch. Works need to emerge from your mind fully formed and perfected. Every line must be confident and complete like an inked, finished work. If you need to fuss over the composition at all then you shouldn’t have bothered.
3. Everything must be on display at all times. If you composition cuts off at the waist then you’re hiding you shitty skills with feet. If the pose doesn’t involve the hands being fully displayed you ‘re hiding your weak skills with hands. Hair can never cover an ear or an eye, either.
4. Every person must be an ideal. Proportions must fit the exact same model for every single figure. Nobody can ever be lanky or awkward looking because then you don’t know your perfect proportions.

Having compiled this wisdom of what you idiots have told me, I’m not sure why I bother with this board. You people are retarded.

>>6625044
Holy based and true.

>>6617503
>Any tips on discipline?
just be disciplined

>>6617505
what is this from? I need it for research purposes.

>>6625033
What if you suck at everything

>>6626007
Then just work on what you find the most appealing and if you don't know what that is then look at artists you like and think about what they do that makes you like their work.

Bump

>>6618664
No, I refuse to believe this. I'M CRYING BECAUSE OF YOU. I WANT TO BE AN ARTIST!!!!

>>6617499
Draw eggs

>>6618664
>>6618664
Jokes on you, I've been constantly ideating cool stuff since I was 5, all I need to do is actually put it to paper right now.

my favorite /ic/ gif ever

>>6618664
Anon, can I tell you my story?
> be me
> be 10 years old and see an illustration of a white-haired girl from a random anime
> copy it until I like it
> acquire a taste for illustrations buy anime comics and magazines to be able to draw
> parents force them to study engineering
>hating my life for 11 years
>23 years old now in an accounting career
>get permission to drop out of college and use the remaining years of college (3) to gain necessary skills.
>Finally I feel full and happy, although a bit nervous because of all the work I have to do, but no matter what happens, good or bad, I want to do what I've been passionate about since I was a child.
I know that many kids who were able to do it from a young age are advanced by comparison but I feel like I can catch up and eventually match them.

>>6628935
The point is... I don't know if I have "it" but I know that I want to do my own illustrations because I like to draw.
Whether I have it or not I want to meet my goal.
live from the illustrations that I do even if they are not thousands of dollars just knowing that with a pencil and paper (or virtual) I can sustain my life is enough for me

>>6628926
I smiled and wheezed

>>6620685
Please don't get our hopes up. You're mistaken, it's someone else.

>>6625033
You'll never become a professional that way.
Sacrifice everything or die trying.

>>6628935
You could still draw in your free time if you had passion for it, but you didn't. NGMI

Should I switch my Twitter over to a "professional account"?

>>6617499
Sick of everything taking fucking work
>Want to get good at drawing
>put in work and frustration
>Want to be a musician
>practice panio but its too slow and frustrating to even learn a single song
> Want to play pizza tower becuase it looked fun
> struggle to understand controls during the tutorial and unstal the game
> want to make a animations
> software looks expensive and difficult and besides it will probably look bad
>Want to write music
> Dont even fucking try because becuase I know I will egt frustrated

Even if, even fucking if you do something well, somebody will judge or tease you for it. I fucking swear i just want to go on disability and snort coke all day until I die. Or at least scroll titktok until my brain numbs the cheapest equivalent.

>>6629067
you're in your 30s, you're never becoming a professional anyway lmao

>>6618664
This, its like expecting to become an athelete in your adult years if you've never trained or played sports as a kid

>>6629067
I honestly think most artists on /ic/ would be better off not chasing professional level art goals or a certain social media status on Twitter, but to instead reach a skill level where you can feel confident about your art. You don't have to be amazing, unique, or even highly skilled like Ruan Jia or KJG to feel good about what you make.
To that end, if I were 18 again I would tell myself to stop chasing work in the animation industry (I eventually did) and focus on a career in STEM, the trades, or maybe even a management position at a retail store. I wouldn't look to freelance work as it is definitely unstable and does not provide the same benefits as being a salaryman does. However if you keep your creative thinking skills alive and keep educating yourself as if you were still an artist, you won't have to stay a salaryman forever, and will eventually find a way to live with a fraction of what you earn.
>>6629366
Art isn't for you then. Drawing is difficult and you will make plenty of horrible portrait drawings, anatomy errors and awful sketches from imagination. If you have no desire to correct your errors or to question where you went wrong on a sketch, then this just isn't for you and I would quit now. No one is gifted with skill in art, everyone started at the bottom. Maybe some people had better pattern recognition skills or could see their weaknesses better where other artists couldn't. Some people remain at an intermediate level for years but keep drawing because they find it enjoyable. But if you're not going to even try, why bother?

>>6626007
u'll probably end with a really strong mouth

>>6617526
I agree and disagree at the same time. I think a beginner should get into the mindset of doing a non-zero day.
The 5 minute thing is long enough to get you into the zone and make you draw longer than that. While still short enough that in days when you do reach 5 minutes and still don't feel like won't feel too bad missing it.
Like exercising at a minimum of going outside with your running shoes on in the morning. If you still want want go to bed, go. But at that point, you put in the effort, you might as well run.

>>6629366
>frustrated at any form of learning that requires executive function, even vidya
You are, unironically, like MOST people, mentally unwell. There's nothing wrong with you inherently, probably, so it can be fixed!
Unfortunately human minds are very complex so go see a professional or do a ton of self reflection and research because there's no simple solution I can put in a tiktok for you.
Start watching hours of (youtube) "healthygamerGG" content from a harvard shrink and actually apply what he says or go get a therapist.
Or continue to rot cause you're too far gone to rely on chance. Also get ready to sacrifice your """entertainment""", it's likely what's responsible for your plight.

It will not be an easy or quick healing, sorry anon. Most change you aren't going to notice at the start, especially if you're not familiar with self reflection/meditation, so first things first change your mindset and stop being frustrated so you can't use it as an excuse. Maybe your frustration really is an underlying illness but there's a higher chance you're mislead about where it's coming from.

You will not get better if you don't apply any of this advice, that's one thing I *can* promise.

>>6629545
He could suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

>>6629366
Your experience sounds like something that a good part of society struggles with. I'm glad the other anon mentioned Healthy Gamer, because I'm about to share some insight I gleaned from that channel.

Frustration occurs because of setting long-term goals for themselves that people don't know how to reach. And for many of them, they have low tolerance for negative emotion. So they turn to TikTok or social media or drugs or whatever to make them go away. That's their coping mechanism. When they take it away, their brain will resume the negative thoughts, which makes people get stuck in this loop of occupying themselves with distractions. The first step for them is to observe their own emotions and try to tolerate them. It doesn't have to last long, just try to go like an hour a day without your usual coping mechanisms and endure.
The second issue is a lack of focus. People like to beat themselves up over their past, or if they're thinking about their goal, if it's not something they can accomplish in a few hours, they tend to see it as unreachable and insurmountable. Like if you want to become a professional artist but you haven't even started drawing. They lose motivation and give up, because there's an incomprehensibly large amount of work to be done. The second step is to try and adopt a present focus. Instead of planning to draw every day for a year, pick up a pencil today and draw for 30 minutes. Notice how you struggle and how your mind resists you. This is what drawing will feel like for you. Then try to repeat it tomorrow, and so on. Basically, do not stop.
Lastly, if they did some work, people reflect on it at the end of the day and don't see significant progress towards their goal. They tend to beat themselves up over it and lose the will to continue. The third step is to try to recognise your achievements and reward yourself for them.

Don't let your failures get to you, anon.

>>6617499
just draw only works if youre actually workshoping where you failed

>>6629531
Good advice on pursing art vs a traditionally sustainable career

>>6629531
>>6629568
>>6629619
Thanks for the advice anons. I have been drawing for a few years now and last night I think I had a bipolar episode or something like that and vented on /ic/ of all places

>>6629662
Any sort of practice works this way. You don’t get good by not fixing what you’re doing wrong.

>>6630160
yeah i know, i think a lot of people are missing that asterisk.
Just Draw*
*Just Drawing will only improve your art if youre actively noting your weaknesses. Call your doctor if you expirence erections lasting more than 4 hrs.

here's one

here's another

>>6617499

>>6617499
Before you draw, you must look.
Before you look, you must think.
Before you think, you must feel.
Before you fuck, you must use proper protection.

>>6625044
>Never sketch

>>6630469
based Eastern wisdom

>>6629067
I used to think like that. Spent a number of years being a delusional NEET. It didn't work out. Now that I have a real job I actually paint more and have progressed faster.
You've gotta be thinking about playing to win. Set actual goals and then achieve them. If you cant handle the stress of bootstrapping your art career while working a regular job then YNGMI. 10 years of slow burning work will get you a lot further than flaming out at 22 trying to "make it" when you have no life experience.

>>6630589
I'm still a delusional NEET, but recently I've made huge progress by setting daily and weekly goals. Production goals, like making actual portfolio pieces. If you're grinding just to improve your work, it's easy to lose sight of what you're doing, because improvement comes very slowly and you're never sure if what you're doing is actually the most productive path. But making portfolio pieces? You know you fucked up if you didn't make the number of pieces you decided upon.

>>6617499
This is one of the realest images on the net.

Any tips/advice on gathering the right references when drawing something for leisure (not studies)? Don't want to over do it is what I'm thinking.

>>6630703
Kind of a vague question here anon. When drawing for leisure you can use as many or as little references as you want. My tip is to draw a thumbnail and then you will have a better idea of what you can't draw on your own.

>>6617505
Do you wanna know why these books are garbage? Because they don't teach you WHY you use the boxes. In fact it's horrifying to realize that due to shitty anime drawing books I never even learned WHY we have the boxes and spheres.

Anons, listen now:

1. GESTURE SKETCH FIRST (POSE FIRST)
-This should be light as FUCK. Easy to erase even, heavy handedness will kill you.
2. USE PLUMB LINES AND THE CLOCK ANGLE METHOD TO CHECK ANGLES AND PLACEMENT
-Learn how to measure things accurately and place things accurately, look at the negative space, use your pencil to find the angles of slopes (your eye is NOT enough in the beginning), and use 'plumb lines' to find placement (look at the feet, where does the back of the heel align with the other foot horizontally? Does the toe align with anything on the body vertically?)
3. IMPOSE BOXES AND SPHERES OVER THE GESTURE FORM.
-This is KEY to 'form' and perspective, once you have your pose down, you double check with perspective if something isn't looking right.
-Do contour studies (lines wrapping around a form) especially with your anatomy studies.
4. STUDY LIGHT & VALUES.
-Literally use pictures and learn how light works, what is bounce light, sub-surface scattering, back lighting, etc.
5. Learn your tools
-Trad or Digital, learn how your tools WORK. Play with them, vary pressure, try blending things together. Mixing paint IRL and digital are DIFFERENT.
6. Study color theory
-What colors look good together, what do they mean? How do they mix? Digitally, figure out things cause you WILL have a different result depending on monitors and the RGB vs CYMK for printing.

-Always reference from real life
-Thumbnails do NOT include details, it's for composition primarily.

1. Simple (Gesture)
2. Refine (Fix gesture)
3. Complex image (Apply the rest)

Nothing is EVER precious, everything CAN be changed and you can't be afraid of that.

>>6630728
>Always reference from real life
Wrong. You can copy art and draw from imagination. Drawing from life can actually be less productive than master copies

>>6617508
He's really funny.

>>6630736
When you do fundamental study then I'd say real life references are much preferred, but for anything else like for fun or learning the ropes, simplified reference can work.

>>6620663
Do you have a mega with all of his corrections? This is super helpful

>>6618664
I agree with this. Not that you can't make it happen, but I feel that if it's in you to create art...you will just do it. You don't need permission to pick up a pencil to draw on a piece of paper. If you can't even figure that much out on your own then it's hopeless.

The worse ones are those who ask if they need paper/pencil or a tablet to learn how to draw. I usually assume people who ask those dumbass questions are just kidding themselves at that point.

>>6630696
A beg wouldnt have that many pages, should be a screenshot of their hoarding folder

>>6630747
That’s the misconception most people have. Fundamentals are actually better learned from master copies. It was the norm since the renaissance for students to copy their teachers drawings and draw from sculptures and plaster casts before they were allowed to draw from life, because the forms and shapes are simplified for you already

>>6618876
I envy people like this. Whenever I try to do anything like this it ends up becoming a whole day affair.

I fucking hate artists so much

>>6630757
bro, there were times where i literally drew on the pavement with charcoal that fell from the grill because i got the sudden urge to do it
its not something you can force yourself to do, itll only make you miserable

>>6628935
good thing you had the drive back when you were young
mine goes like this
>likes drawing
>gets a little older later
>realize my drawing looks like shit
>didnt know drawing books exist so i didnt bother to get better
that was the pre-internet days

>>6630785
ok ai "prompter"

>>6633907
nah

>>6617499
If you just sit there, ignore all the insecurity and anxiety you feel, don't distract yourself, just sit there in the problem area eventually something clicks and you get it. I didn't understand so many things the years off and on doing art and while I was rusty getting back into it, the things that used to be a big deal to me is not any more because I took the time to rep out specifically what I was bad at and didn't feel bad.

>>6633940
no

>>6617499
this is too wholesome.

>>6617500
Si this bridgeman faggot is legit or a meme? Which book exactly should I use?

>>6634014
Its a meme of course
Literally all his 'books' are just compilations of his whiteboard sketches with zero context from himself, just like the Reilly books, hence why there's so many Reilly 'methods' since every other teacher after makes up their own shit up as there's no canon book
Go read vilppu hogarth huston morpho etc etc no point in copying random squiggles in a 1920s book like some NPC

>>6634032
Bridgman wrote all his own books, my uneducated friend.

>>6618664
>if you never in your life picked up a pencil, or created anything, or had any interest in art.... you wont become an artist now, no matter how much you train
>and this isnt because you dont have enough time, or because you missed out on some kinda magical childhood development that no amount of time and effort will be enough
>no, its because youre not an artist, you werent born with a passion for it- if you never wanted to make art until you became an adult, you wont be an artist. you might be a painter, or an illustrator, and im sure youll make plenty of stuff that looks pleasant to the eye if you train enough, but none of it will compare to the art of someone whos born an artist. it might have the physical looks or the structure, but not the appeal, the passion, what we call 'soul'


TOTAL BS!

its not you weren't born with it in the first place, its just you were born too early and just in time

A.I. IS TAKING OVER, AND EVERYBODY CAN BE AN ARTIST!!

>>6634014
It's a forced meme being pushed by nodraws. Don't waste time with it. Outdated nonsense.
Read Bammes or Stonehouse anatomy instead for actual in depth discussion then refer to Morpho and Anatomy for Sculptors while drawing. Don't just merely copy that's moronic.

>>6634054
>Bammes
kek

>>6634049
No

>>6634049
You need a 2000s anime LoRA.

>>6634032
>>6634054
Thought so, thanks for the recommendations!

>>6634049
As long as I can draw anime girls getting rammed and cute lolis, I don't give a fuck about soul or art

>>6634078
Kys tho

>>6618664
Replace 'guys' with 'younger me' and you're on the money.

>>6634049
Use this opportunity to learn from it.

>>6634049
How about you generate a personality you fucking soulless crab

>>6618664
This (((artist))) meme is so obnoxious and pretentious that I gladly call myself just a painter. I am starting to think Odd Nerdrum was right after all. What's even more funny is that you see yourself above illustrators for some vague reasons. I get it, you were born a genius. I am gladly distancing myself as I am just a low brow painter and illustrator. Our works might even be similar or comparable but what seperates us is just narcissism. It makes me almost understand the disdain of AI prompters towards us.

>>6618664
Truth bestie

>>6629366
zoomer moment

>>6635094
>implying proompters aren't narcissists either

>>6618664
ok ai faggot

just take some distance from the screen/paper. don't have your eyes glood to your drawing. never lose sight of the complete picture. (literally the best advice I can come up with after thousands of hours)

>>6638529
Thanks man

>>6625044
A lot of people here are actually autistic and think in binaries like this, do not bully us please.

>>6617526
thing is if you just draw for 5min you're likely to draw for 10-15, and somedays do more and more. 5minutes is enough to get the ballrolling, I personally made it a goal just to draw something, and now I'm drawing a few hours again everyday.

I think sometimes about that one decent Zen Pencils comic about how if you're gonna make art, you'll make it no matter what. There's no point trying to set up your perfect schedule and environment before you start, if you have it in you then you'll find the time even if it's while you're idling in your truck between jobs in an 18 hour day.

this isn't an advice, just an observation. I've noticed almost every artist that "never makes it" are usually people who are the most failure-averse. The idea of making a mistake is so awful to them that it seems they don't want to try if it seems like they will fail. Lots of really good artists seem to have no trouble trying out new things and not giving a shit if it doesn't work out because they don't see failure as a dead end but rather they usually examine what went wrong and build off of it.
I don't know if this will make any sense to anyone but I've met a lot of artists who won't attempt something like colors, or anatomy, or try to complete an illustration to the best of their ability because they don't want to fail. I've also seen a lot of artists who grind anatomy and boxes almost every day for multiple hours a day and never seem to get any better because of what I believe is them just being too afraid of making mistakes.

tl;dr: comfort zone

>>6640281
you're on the money. I spent many years just doing figure drawing, and I thought I was being very smart, surpassing a lot of people, because I was workin on my fundies, but really, I was too afraid to draw comics and put myself out there. I'm paying the price for that now, many years later.

>>6640281
man that means i'm going to make it as fuck since all i do is fail and be out of my comfort zone

ngl ive been getting better overall uninorically by drawing the bare minimum (once or twice a day for an hour just drawing whatever), but i'm not making or finishing any pieces or studying for that matter
The thing is, i do see myself at least reaching pro levels in the next 5-10ish years. I'm not in a hurry anyway.

>>6640281
Great post

>>6634049
I unironically like the left more. it's got more personality to it.

>>6640443
shut the hell up you fn animal.