/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6545311
trace and use ai prompting

>>6545314
based

>>6545311
Copy without tracing
Gesture drawing

>>6545323
Where did you find that?

>>6545324
This is the only answer

>>6545311
Drawing for fun and some cubes
>>6545324
Also this
>>6545314
>>6545315
Fuck off shills

>>6545325
25:25
https://youtu.be/kbKqIJcIUCw?t=1525
and
there's a gdrive link in the description

>>6545324
>>6545328
Why is tracing hated? I understand the contempt for ai but tracing seems like the fastest way to at least become decent. Sure if you want to be top 100 in the world you shouldn’t trace and instead learn from nature/golden rectangle/adderol and hyperborean trance modes etc etc but if you want to at least escape /beg/ wouldn’t tracing be beneficial? Genuinely asking.

>>6545330
I love asian work ethic.

>>6545330
>>6545323
Pyw.

>>6545333
>AI
Fucking no
>Tracing
Nice bait
Meh

>>6545333
Tracing isn't bad when learning btw

>>6545323
This seems extremely tedious to do with a pencil and paper

>>6545342
Why. Is. Tracing. Bad.
?

Tracing is bait but drawabox is kino amirite?

Daily I would just do studies of whatever was around me. Since I was in school at the time I didn't have much free time so to combat that I would just bring my sketchbook around with me and draw what was in front of me in between class or on transit. I only used pen and marker straight to paper too so it really forced me to think about what I was looking at.

I also furthered this effort by doing a shit ton of figure drawing both in person and via photos. I would rec drawing from real life as much as you can though.

>>6545333
You don't learn as much tracing. It might seem like a way to get faster results but it's because you are essentially doing the equivalent of copying homework. In this case you are asking why it isn't the same since you are still producing the right answers however when it comes to doing it yourself you didn't learn what you needed to and you won't be able to replicate it freehand. It's much better to learn how to replicate without relying on a crutch like tracing.

>>6545345
Refer to >>6545343 dumbass
>t.phoneposter

>>6545344
Yeah, that's why I use my tablet.

>>6545347
The biggest problem with tracing is when people become dependent on it and don't try to replicate anything on their own
But yeah,it's pretty much this.

>>6545347
That’s a nice marker dude. What brand is it?

>>6545347
>>6545356
It's possible to learn few things with it as long as you don't rely much on it

>>6545337
i am still a beg(4months)
so i only have practices
timelapse
https://files.catbox.moe/t4f7yr.mp4

>>6545359
This was a Copic marker. They work great but as a warning they will bleed through thin paper.

>>6545364
I wouldn't say you have to totally avoid it but I think it's a worse exercise in general so I always opted for what I thought would get the best results.

>>6545342
Tracing with intention to learn isn't bad. Will help you understand anatomy better and will let you grasp the use of shapes easier. As long as you aren't claiming that you didn't trace it. Should be used purely as practice/studying

Tracing mixed with copying is a good way to learn.

>>6545323
I assume he would practice one form multiple times before he got it right?

>>6545376
Agreed

>>6545384
>>6540495

>>6545386
Thank you

>>6545388
this is what i do
https://files.catbox.moe/9uehr4.mp4
dont just overlap the layers, compare both drawings with your eyes and if something is off, fix, compare again and fix, once you can't see anything off overlap the layers and fix is something is off.

>>6545311
Wrist stretches two or three times a day.

>>6545323
I don't understand this

>>6545410
wat

>>6545410
It's a accuracy exercise

>>6545373
Looking good,keep it up anon

>>6545426
oh ok ok I'm a retard
I get it now

>>6545311
Worst exercises
>tracing
>drawing hundreds of floating boxes
>copying someone else’s gestures
>drawing pieces of anatomy ie: just legs, just feet, labeling all the back muscles, floating anime eyes
>erasing till you get it right
>following a study regimen or course on drawing

Best exercises
>figure drawing
>study artists you like (do not trace)
>instead of erasing, finish it, then draw it again until it looks right
>just draw

I don’t know why people try to memorize anatomy or just draw a torso with no legs or arms or head. Because any normal drawing has arms legs and a head and they need to be in proportion. Just draw the rest of the fucking owl.

And if you need a drawing syllabus to draw, you’ll never learn how to learn on your own. So you’ll always be looking for the next tutorial. Teach yourself to fish. Teach yourself how to learn without being hand held.

>>6545323
How would you do this without a tablet?

Is there a figure drawing for brainlets book

>>6545456
light table
https://youtu.be/UVjjze8U7Us

>>6545311
>What exercises did you do daily to escape /beg/?
Literally just drawing.

>>6545443
I'm curious about your skill level because you just said some really stupid things

>>6545323
Here's a different version of this exercise. I prefer this one, since you work with shapes you might get to use later on.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=HMX3K3YMbd8

>>6545472
I draw like this

What parts do you find to be most disagreeable? If it wasn’t obvious i really hate fundies, draw a box, vilppu, and dynamic sketching. I think they are beg traps.

>>6545479
lol

>>6545479
im not into animals or watever is that but hot

>>6545443
>I don’t know why people try to memorize anatomy or just draw a torso with no legs or arms or head.


It's easier to draw a piece of anatomy and rotate it at different angles especially when you're doing it for the first time.


The actual problem is never moving past that point at all.

>>6545479
based, i also agree with you

>>6545443
>figure drawing
>study artists you like (do not trace)
how do iteach myself those though

>>6545472
>>6545479
btfo lol

>>6545479
>hate fundies, draw a box, vilppu, and dynamic sketching
Based as fuck. I schizopost about this all the time Im glad you agree with me tablefriend.

>>6545526
Copy them without tracing

You might benefit from using construction lines to help you reconstruct the original image but it is not strictly necessary.

>>6545479
I like your art but i wouldn't crap on Vilppu. He's different from the rest. If you've never given him the time or the chance, you can't criticize him

>>6545443
>copying someone else’s gestures
I don't see the problem if it's a solid drawing worth copying, after all, you have no problem with artist studies.

>drawing pieces of anatomy
Agree with this, I think it's better to just draw the entire figure when studying anatomy. Draw singular limbs to quickly learn the muscles, than apply it to a full figure already.
Don't spend so much time drawing floating limbs!

>>6545311
masturbate before drawing

>>6545564
Nah, your anatomy is better when you're horny. Masturbate WHILE drawing.

>>6545443
>>drawing pieces of anatomy ie: just legs, just feet, labeling all the back muscles, floating anime eyes
That's just to get a feel for the shape of some specific shit instead of having to spend all that time drawing the rest of the person is all

>>6545584
>Masturbate WHILE sketching
to be more precise

>>6545410
We got another one boys!!

>>6545640
this is a nice projection

>>6545410
>>6545749
Understandable if you have never seen or heard of the method. You can think of it like the grid method used to copy paintings, only with fewer boxes. The goal of the exercise is to duplicate the squiggly, irregular line as closely as possible (red is the attempt, grey is the target), which you do by bounding it in boxes and straight, readable lines, giving you landmarks for where and how things curve, how long things should be, etc.

The person has then done eight of these exercises per sheet, up to 12 times per file, with 79 sheets across 9 files, for a total of doing the exercise 632 times (per day, seems to be the implication).

>>6545862
Can I do it with pencil and paper? I’ll use the hardest pencil to make the grids and a light pencil so when I erase my grids don’t disappear

>>6545862
>The person has then done eight of these exercises per sheet, up to 12 times per file, with 79 sheets across 9 files, for a total of doing the exercise 632 times (per day, seems to be the implication).
While it seems like a good hand/eye coordination exercise if your lines lack confidence, or a great way to get used to drawing on a tablet, I don't really see why you would do this otherwise?

How does this help outside of those things?

>>6545479
Is this real tableguy or a sneaky troll post? How can you hate fundies and vilppu???

>>6545923
Looks to me like it’s training your ability to copy accurately. The reasoning seems to be that if you can copy a random squiggly line accurately, then you can copy drawings. That seems to be Krenz’ thing - to study by copying.

>>6545479
>dab, vilppu, dynamic sketching are beg traps
Sure, if you want to blindly grind for 10+ years in the hopes of stumbling into something that works for you. Or, you can follow a tried and true method for learning art that will show progress in less than a year.

>>6545978
>dab
>tried and true

>>6545311
will drawing basic shapes like circles and squares mindlessly actually help me improve? Or is there some sort of critical analysis I have to do as well? I don't understand what to do for said critical analysis, what am I supposed to do? People say draw circle and I am trying, but tablet sucks and I don't know if I am actually getting better or not.

>>6545962
I see. I disagree with the exercise then, but the overall philosophy.
I copy all the time, but I just construct the character as closely as I can, and then take notes of what could have been better and what to watch out for next time.

I feel like this exercise will just waste your time, when you could be studying construction.

>>6545947
Steering beginners away from obessing over fundies or doing courses isn't a bad idea honestly.
Just drawing, figuring out what you can improve and only then doing just that, while probably less effective than a more structured approach, does help prevent begs from burning out early.

>>6545984
>but the overall philosophy.
AGREE with the overall philosophy. This damn retard brain missed that.

>>6545984
Pyw.

>>6545311
I learned perspective, form simplification, anatomy and some shade design for composition were the big factors to improve for me. Barely any exercises done besides figuring out how these things work with my brain and not my hand because if you don't understand something you'll start doing trial and error and that's how people figured all that stuff in the first place but over thousand of years of trial and error, you get to skip the trial by understanding their understanding

>>6545947
Duh. How can he say he hates fundies when his drawings are an expert display of shapes, form and perspective? Retard

>>6545980
Just go to the courses it was based on then

>>6545443
>>6545947
pantsu here.
That's not my fellow drawfriend deskfella, don't believe everything you read on the internet.

>>6545982
Anyone?

>>6545982
Alot of people hype up Krenz and that’s what he does

>>6546037
learn to think for yourself or you will forever be like pic-rel

>>6546037
It doesnt

I hated doing figure drawings and other academic studies. I just wanted to make work like my favorite artists. Stuff like murata range and hyung tae kim. I would just try to mimic what they did.

I think it worked out alright.

>>6546034
I don't believe you! he even posted with the same phone filename and the same pink & blue pencils as he did in the pokemon challenge thread.

>>6546037
It does

>>6546038
>>6546041
>>6546049
I'm getting mixed signals here.

>>6546040
I was just asking for elaboration, no need to go for the throat.

>>6546040
Lmfuckingao this was gold

>>6546051
Are you struggling to learn something? Yes? Then yes. No? Then no.

>>6546045
w..wakkawa?

How do i into gesture as a low /beg/

>>6546070
you don't. Focus on construction and anatomy. That'll take you to /pro/ level by itself. Best way to learn it is to copy Bridgman and do figure drawings and master copies

>>6545526
You find a picture you like, and do your best to recreate it. Then you have to know when to stop and move on to the next picture. Just copy 10 small things a day then copy 2 things in more depth.

Timed figure drawing, you literally draw the figure in the allotted time. When the time expires you draw the next one.

>>6545554
I can rant about vilppu for days. I tried one of his figure drawing tutorials. He’s just not for me. Ive never wanted to stop drawing figures more than when I watched him draw. He throws down lines in places that only make sense for him. He ass pulls so much anatomy and content that isnt in the reference that it is impossible to follow. He has 70 years of experience that he just flippantly sprinkles in and the viewer is somehow expected to follow along. He is the embodiment of draw what you know not what you see. And for like 90% of the people watching him, this wont help you make it through the figure drawing. It’s incredibly discouraging because if you draw from the ref it will look like shit, but his is all sparkly and detailed with shit that isnt in there. Shit that you dont even know about. So you look at your figures and you look at his and you’re just like fuck this power gap.

All this being said, i dont watch any drawing tutorials or any YouTube. So its possible that vilppu is the best, i have nothing to compare it to.

>>6545595
Right, but just do it live in your drawing as you need it. Instead of drawing of 200 arms floating in space. Wouldnt you have learned more if you drew 200 figures, figures WITH arms?

>>6545947
Have you ever seen me practice fundies… just practice something when you need it. Or do it if you are really amped about it. But im not excited about perspective grids or the planes of the faces or labeling back muscles or color theory, and if you have seen my drawings, you know this is true because i am ok with those looking like shit in my finished work. It’s your journey, you can pick whatever you want to work on

>>6545978
I spent 10 years drawing what i wanted to, and i enjoyed it. I’d rather spend 10 years doing what i want than spend 1 year drawing what i hate because that 1 year may make me quit out of boredom, frustration, or missing out on making something i want in the moment. I see lots of people say they want to work on their big project, but they have to learn their fundies first. You wont feel the same about your project in 1 year. You could be dead in 1 year. Or missing your hands, or have a kid, or a job etc. You’d learn more about yourself and what you like about drawing by just doing the project.

>>6546034
I’m sure this isnt pantsu.. HOW DO WE KNOW

>>6546070
Copy anime action frames. Pick your favorite scenes and just make a quick 2min sketch of the character. Animation already has exaggerated poses which make it easier to gesture through because they have simplified it for you.

>>6546070
How low? I was shown to / how to do gestures when I was pretty good at doing photo copies, but had very stiff drawings from imagination. Gestures are the most obvious cure for that. That said, very early gestures are basically looking at stuff and scribbling the thing as best you can in very little time (a minute or less), so they suck early on no matter what.

>>6546142
Very low, im working on line confidence and trying to break out of chicken scratching right now, and ive been copying mostly. My drawing is just very rigid and slow so id like to work on being more fluid and confident while sketching

>>6546128
>I can rant about vilppu for days. I tried one of his figure drawing tutorials. He’s just not for me. Ive never wanted to stop drawing figures more than when I watched him draw. He throws down lines in places that only make sense for him. He ass pulls so much anatomy and content that isnt in the reference that it is impossible to follow. He has 70 years of experience that he just flippantly sprinkles in and the viewer is somehow expected to follow along. He is the embodiment of draw what you know not what you see. And for like 90% of the people watching him, this wont help you make it through the figure drawing. It’s incredibly discouraging because if you draw from the ref it will look like shit, but his is all sparkly and detailed with shit that isnt in there. Shit that you dont even know about. So you look at your figures and you look at his and you’re just like fuck this power gap.
>All this being said, i dont watch any drawing tutorials or any YouTube. So its possible that vilppu is the best, i have nothing to compare it to.
Tableguy's jealous of Vilppu's skills....lol

I get where you're coming from though. Vilppu made me draw very solidly, but artificially. I credit Bridgman and master copies to changing my robot figures to something actually appealing. But Vilppu's the place to start for basic forms, especially his drawing manual. I went through a phase of only drawing busty fat women because i was so into his spherical forms.

>>6546203
hey anon im collecting those funny vilppu images, do you have more?

picrel is the ones i have collected

>>6546248
also collecting kim jung gi funnies if you have them

>>6546248
I lost my collection a while ago, but I have a few I can post

JUST DRAW

that's it. if anyone else has more I'd love them

>>6546248
Can you post these pls? I too want to collect them. Include Kim Jung gi as well!

>>6546248
Also here’s one I have btw

>>6546285
will post mine!
1/5 ( the 6th in my pic is from >>6546203)

>>6546252
>>6546253
>>6546254
>>6546256
>>6546258
>>6546287
Thank you all!

>>6546323
2/5

>>6546324
3/5

>>6546326
4/5

>>6546328
5/5

>>6545862
>The person has then done eight of these exercises per sheet, up to 12 times per file, with 79 sheets across 9 files, for a total of doing the exercise 632 times (per day, seems to be the implication).
>per day
What the actual fuck. Seems like a great warmup exercise or a drill to do on occasion to focus on accuracy, but for most people that would be an absolute NGMI trap, since you'd be better off spending most of your copying time on copying drawings that are more in-line with the shit you actually WANT to be drawing so you can work on accuracy and learning other things at the same time.

>>6546324
Making this my permanent phone wallpaper thx anon

>>6545333
Tracing instills in you the mindset to see drawing as an obstacle, instead of a part of artmaking. Drawing is not the thing that stands in the way of your next big piece, it's part of the process and the process is the whole point of art making. It's a big NGMI trap for beginners that they will never get out of once the habit is established.

>>6545443
>>6545479
Based tableguy

Finally, a good fucking thread.
I started drawing when I was 18 and have been going on and off cause I jumped right into ngmi traps like Drawabox, Loomis, Peter Han, etc.
The biggest problem I see with all the tutorials bs is that you never know what you can actually do cause it's mostly step-by-step and never about drawing to completion.
Only there you can see what can you learn and focus more on or just not give a fuck and draw more.
I fucking get it now.

>>6545443
>No erasing [..] just draw it again

Excuse me how autistic is that. How many hours am I supposed to copy one thing until it "looks right" a day? So many strokes just go off mark as well forcing an undo or an erase

>>6546040
holy lol

>>6545333
You don't make as many choices, so you make way fewer mistakes, so you learn way less.

>>6546467
Not him, but I think it's good to have a balance. Try doing some of your studies quickly with very minimal time spent on mechanical measuring and making corrections, but also do some trying to use as many techniques as possible to get it right in order to work on your accuracy. A similar principal to timed gesture drawings of different lengths, but applied to copies/more in-depth figure studies (and without a set time length). Ideally you'll start to close the gap, where even your quick, minimal correction studies will start to be fairly accurate, which is ideal - being able to do studies quickly while maintaining a moderate degree of accuracy means you can complete a lot more copies than you could if every one were laborious effort of careful measuring and continued erasing.

For pieces you intend to share or are done on commission, then yeah, make them as good as possible.

>>6545443
how do i apply the knowledge i get from studies?

>>6546487
This is the eternal question that nobody can really answer.

>>6546487
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDpejTqQvcI

>>6546478
This makes more sense, no erasing seems too much especially the worse you are. Fuck it ill bite and try it, I been spamming the undo key ever since I started drawing.

>>6546129
Who says you can't do anything else while you're studding? You can spend 50, 40, 30 % of your time on exercises and the rest on doing something you really love, most teachers (even the dab guy) suggest doing just that. Imo, your method has a much higher chance of getting someone to quit. They'll try to make their dream project come true, fail miserably because they lack the skill and then give up in frustration.

>yfw all these exercises are down streamed from Loomis.
nothing personnel kid

>>6546444
>ngmi traps like Drawabox, Loomis, Peter Han, etc.
pyw

>>6546444
>I started drawing when I was 18 and have been going on and off cause I jumped right into ngmi traps like Drawabox, Loomis, Peter Han, etc.


This has to be a problem with you more than the courses. I don't get how people are getting filtered by these.

>>6546444
>Drawabox
Beg Trap

>PeterHan
Beg Trap

>Loomis
Not a beg trap. You just have a ngmi workethic

>>6545978
Pyw

is it worth learning perspective and getting good drawing those box men or its a waste of time and i should stick to references?

>>6548561
>or its a waste of time and i should stick to references?
What do you mean by this? There are many ways to use reference. Are you studying reference to draw from imagination? Or are you an idiot fine-art painter who just copies photos for their final gallery paintings?

If you're studying references to draw from imagination, then you 100% need to be able to break a figure down into it's box forms.

>>6548575
I copy the photo but only the pose
art is already pretty hard im not gonna cram in these things into my head and be able to draw from imagination

>>6548585
Its hard at first, but all the various skills will meld into instinct. It’s worth it to pursue a high ideal.

>>6548591
any tips on how should i start drawing the box people?

>>6548622
Vilppu! (combine his course with Bridgman and lots of figure drawing)

>>6545311
Man fuck this! You'd think with all the artists in here, you fucks could come up with a solid training regimen but all I get in these threads is fucking contradictory hickory dickory dock bullshit. God I hate this shit

>>6549314
So instead of just drawing (which is the actually answer by the way) you get hung up on discovering a magical regimen and dont draw anything.

>>6549316
I've tried learning from several fucking resources but then the artists, in all their wisdom, ramp the difficulty to nightmare.
>Hamptom
Has a bunch of random lines in his gestures
Completely halfasses facial features
>Loomis
Fucking meat balls, how do they work?

And what the fuck is the point of drawing if everything you draw looks like shit?! Since apparently I can't trace, or can I?

>>6549325
Thats because you are drawing from a book. Just find a picture you like and draw it. Then find another picture you like and draw it. And keep doing that.

It may look like shit, but you atleast like the reference picture. So that should be more motivating than a 1940s loomis head

>>6549328
>Just find a picture you like and draw it
What kind of picture? Fanart? Photos? How do I know if I'm improving?

>>6549325
You fucks get filtered just by putting a pen to the page. I remember getting filtered by every figure drawing book out there and I still made it. Loomis is fucking hieroglyphics to me. Vilppu anatomy is watching old people sleep. Scott Robertson is mechanical autism torture. If you fucks really wanted it, like actually wanted it, you’d have it because you’d make up a brand new fucking way if that’s what it took to get you to where you understood drawing concepts. In most cases, that’s what I had to do when nothing else was getting me anywhere. That and a lot of drawing.

>>6549334
That's bullshit you bitch. No other discipline is allowed this level of fucking around. If you need to learn a math or science subtopic, you can fucking read any resource and 99% of them will have the same process. But art teachers halfass their books and severely overestimates or doesn't care if the reader gets confused by their esoteric examples

>>6549329
What do you like? Copy a drawing of the thing you like.

Draw it and see how much it sucks, then draw it again and if it is better then you have improved. If it is worse, then draw it again until it looks better.

Why is this so hard for you?

Post a picture that you like right now, and we can draw it together.

>>6549338
No bitch. Art is not an exact science. There’s a thousand ways to solving the same problem, not one. There’s a flexiblity in learning to draw that is not afforded in most disciplines. This is part of the issue with nodraws. They won’t even listen to good advice when it’s given. You can’t even be spoonfed the answer. Just face it, you’d sooner pick pepper out of fly shit than put pen to paper.

>>6549343
Aren’t I just learning to copy really well then?
I’m going to bed but I’ll post a draw when I wake up if you do

>>6549354
All you did was fellate yourself over how you supposedly learned to draw and admitted art books are shit for beginners and now you wanna act like you did a favor

>>6549357
I did your peach, then i drew some more because i was having fun. See you can have fun too if you JUST DRAW.

But now im upset because i have peach on my brain and im going to derail and draw peaches for the next couple days. So fuck you.

>>6549334
Pyw

>>6549420
Do you think you can improve just by drawing from imagination? Or do you absolutely need to be doing figure drawing and master copies?

>>6549870
In my experience studying vs imagination drawing are two very different beasts.

If all you want to do is improve, just do studies. You train your eye to see what looks correct, and you can try different skills and techniques to add to your tool belt. It’s where your style comes from based on who you choose to copy - from body types, to facial expressions, color palettes, inking styles, and gesture. It can be quite enjoyable to just copy for years.

But you may discover that copying shit for years is completely pointless because you are just making an inferior version of an existing drawing. And when you try to draw from imagination your mind is devoid of how to execute. You don’t know where to put things or how to balance the character design or pick your own color palette. You know theoretically where all the things should go based on your copies, but you can’t translate it to what you had in your head. It takes a nontrivial amount of skill to create something that doesnt look like cut and pasted reference photos. Drawing from imagination in my opinion is the actual fun/artistry part of drawing. Otherwise what was it all for.. There is much more to explore about yourself and your audience and what you want to achieve than just leveling up in the game.

Drawing from imagination is so that you can practice combining what you already have. Doing studies is a way to collect more skills and tricks to combine. So if you only drew from imagination and never used reference or studied, you might get stuck in beg drawing kawaii fruit doodles. And if you only do studies, you could probably impress a lot of people and make good progress With your Morgan freeman portraits, but its more like learning to play an existing song as opposed to composing your own.

>>6549899
Thank you, table :)

>>6549899
Ok, what is the solution then? I appreciate the post but how do I balance this

>>6549926
Study and do copies until you get bored, then do imagination until you get frustrated, then go back to studying and doing copies.

Repeat at infinity. Your durations for how long you study or draw from imagination could be days, weeks, months, or even years.

>>6549926
>>6549914
Both of you have to draw a peach for me now

you fuckers never have advice for actual beginners

I drew buildings for perspective and human figures for both figure drawing & gesture

>>6549945
Do you think you can become a master of drawing with no more than 10 more drawings?

Do you expect to exit beg tier with your next drawing?

You have to draw a lot, i dont know what other advice to give. Find something you like to draw and just churn out hundreds of drawings of it. After a thousand drawings you can look back and see how far youve come. Learning how to draw is about the journey not the end result.

>>6549955
i don't have something i like to draw because all my drawiings come out shit retard

>>6549957
what he means is to draw even if it comes out like shit
the point is for you to do it consistently , take this , draw a few circles every day , do it for a week , after that look back at the first circles and then the one's you made at the end of the week
you will see progress (hopefully)

to put it simply, just draw.

>>6549957
What do you like? You do like something right? Is there a drawing that you like to look at or an artist that you like? Draw that. Expect your rendition to look like shit, be happy when it looks less shitty than you expected.

If you are asking me how to not be frustrated that is a different thing. When you play your video games do you play flawlessly and never make mistakes and play all the way through perfectly on the first time? Wouldnt that be a really boring game?

When you make a mistake drawing, you can just try again. If you draw 10 things, 1 of those 10 will be the worst and 1 of those 10 will be the best. Put them next to each other and feel good.

Ive already seen you post this doodle, in the amount of time you ahve spent shitposting around ic you could have made another doodle.

>>6549966
but then what do i do after i copy a bunch of stuff?

>>6549957
nta, if you can't accept the fact that your drawings will be shit for a long while you might as well stop now, or instead you can focus on learning to enjoy the process (aka the DRAWING part, the action) and not give the end result much more importance than it needs. all of this of course comes x100 easier if you draw something you enjoy, try shit out considering you're /beg/

>>6549970
>instead you can focus on learning to enjoy the process
there is literally nothing on this
it's all just "don't be too hard on yourself lol"

>>6549969
If you ask a stupid question like this again I'm gonna post the dog comic
don't anger me

>>6549973
>it's all just "don't be too hard on yourself lol"
if you're shit-tier beg what's the point of being hard on yourself exactly?

>>6549976
i'm serious
there's copying lineart and there's turning real life or a photograph into lines
and then of course there's drawing from imagination

>>6549979
???

>>6549980

>>6549982
i don't think this comic illustrates its intended point

>>6549940
Thanks anon. >>6549926 here Here is a peach

>>6549992
Holy fuck I am retarded. I drew a pear.

>>6550001
Here is the peach

>>6550014
nice

>>6549769
Already did but here you go

>>6549945
>>6549957
This is why no one wants to help you assholes. Instead of heeding his advice, you’d rather crab and gaslight. Instead of drawing, you’d rather post conspiracy theories about artists gatekeeping secret knowledge. Draw and copy a lot. Do this for years. This is not advanced math. There is no secret.

>>6549940
One peach, coming up

>>6549945
Soul

>>6550026
wait, how the fuck am i gaslighting? do you even know what that means?

>>6550032
You’re gaslighting him by saying nobody gave you advice, when there’s advice galore on this site. You just want attention, given your behavior in the other thread

>>6549420
This method doesn't make me learn anything. As much as I hate Loomis books, the loomis methood actually teaches HOW to draw a head, any head. Copying is not teaching
Fuck drawing. Shit makes no sense

>>6550036
oh come the fuck on

but on a separate topic, is just drawing a bunch of people from a site like quickposes a good way to practice? will i learn anything?

>>6550037
Did you even read Loomis? Loomis tells you to draw the figure, hundreds, thousands of times. He tells you to copy the shadow shapes and the anatomy and to measure using your pencil. He tells you to make portraits of your friends, and draw your own hands. There’s no contradiction between what tableguy is asking you to do, and what Loomis says to do

>>6550026
give us a nickname blessed tumblr nose anon

>>6550041
You mean draw his simplified figures that are meant to be modified for any shape?
That guy was just saying copy everything which only makes you good at copying that thing and that thing only. There's no goal to work toward or anything to learn.

>>6550050
you should construct as you copy. Then you can build a library of 3d forms and knowledge of the human figure as you copy

>>6550055
Every artist has their own own version and their books are really fucking confusing when you are trying to learn construction cause the fucking artist blitzes past those initial beginnings

>>6550057
There are many forms of milk cartons. There are many brands of cars. There are also many types of houses. But they all share the same fundamental. All construction is ultimately derived from primitive forms. Spheres, Boxes, Cylinders. You can put them together in your own way, to build your own figure in your own style, but all construction comes down to either:

Spheres: Drawing a basic outline around the form
Boxes: XYZ lines, Corners, Planes
Cylinders: Ellipses, Wrapping lines, Cross-hatching that wraps around the forms

Some artists love just using cylinder forms. (Steve Huston, David Finch) Some artists use primarily boxes. (Kim Jung Gi, Craig Mullins), and some just use spherical forms and keep their constructions vague (Vilppu, Hentai artists, etc.) This is one of the most creative parts of drawing: inventing your own form of construction. Robert Beverly Hale said the first creative act of the draftsman is laying down the primary mass-conception.

To elaborate: I might use a box for a pelvis when drawing from a frontish view, but I might use Loomis' disks when drawing it from a 3/4 angle. Sometimes, I'll use an egg for the rib-cage, if I'm drawing a slim beautiful woman. Sometimes, I'll use a boxy shape if I'm drawing a rough and gruff man. If I'm drawing in anime style, I'll be using different shapes than when I'm drawing in a Cartoon Network style.

The only answer to knowing what shapes to use, is to copy copy copy, study study study. And you will come to your own conclusions, and your own unique style will blossom.

I recommend getting Vilppu's drawing manual (not necessarily his video courses), to learn about basic forms, and Bridgman and Morpho for basic anatomy. After that, you just draw from life and copy artists.

Drawing is a thinking exercise.
If you're not willing to think, you're not going to make it.
No tutorial will help you if you're not willing to think.
No amount of grinding will help you if you are not willing to think.
THINK.

>>6550067
Appreciate the effort post. I’ll try Vilppu

>>6550103
Its hard to think about a subject you don’t understand. Teachers are supposed to give us tools to make things happen. Behs are just looking for tools but a lotta people are pointing in different directions and even saying other’s tools are trash and don’t work. Of course a beg is going to be lost

>>6550108
Begs have the sum of human knowledge at their fingertips, free of charge and can even get paid information very easily. They have this information in multiple formats, so if they can't read well, they can listen to an audio book or a video. Do you really think Loomis, DAB and Vilpuu's are the only thing around? You can literally drown in learning material if you put in the time.
The tools are all there, but they won't mean anything if you're not willing to use your mind to connect these concepts together. This is an unfortunate reality when you're teaching yourself, and even when you go to school you may have to teach yourself anyway. If you're unable to connect why Draftsmanship and Composition may be connected, how are you going to get anywhere with drawing?

>>6550046
I go by snob

>>6549420
One peach, hot and ready

>>6550125
Drowning in knowledge is an issue. There’s too much information for begs. You can’t start at chapter 1 for drawing. At least there’s no universal chapter 1. It takes a ton of time before you recognize an improvement in drawing. It sicks but I’ll try to rise and grind

>>6550166
If there was a chapter 1 in drawing, I would say it is working with line and basic forms (Ellipses, Cubes, Cones, etc.)
When I started drawing again and studying seriously, I decided the first hurdle to tackle was to learn how to draw a straight line and a round circle. What it taught me was about how the movement of one's body affects their strokes, as well as prompting me to see more lines and round shapes in life, leading me to apply those simple studies to things I was more prone to enjoy.

It may not be the same for you, but I wanted to put that out there.

>>6545330
>>6545353
I love Krenz's style, but I cannot for the life of me understand his principles or even his instructions.
Must be a chinese thing

>>6546051
Drawing circles is a fine warm up if you want to get your arm used to the motion. Squares too and both shapes can help in perspective practice.

The problem is when you get stuck on only doing them every time you sit down to draw. It's easy for that to happen because they're not that hard to do. It feels safe and makes you feel like progressing.

When you might just be walking in circles for the most part.

>>6550908
>but I cannot for the life of me understand his principles or even his instructions.
wat??

Any recommendation / book on grinding dynamic figure drawing?
I got some refs and books but it's wearing thin

>>6545311
stop posting this fucking image. nobody does right before doing left, its not fucking real. stop gaslighting begs.

post videos of good artists drawing full sized nude figures with correct anatomy. If its so fundamental, then every good artist should have mastered it, right? its a simple request, but you're just going to seethe and make fun of me with ad hominems.

>>6550998
Keep telling yourself, perma/beg/ shitter and stick with /asg/ , so you can poorly copy your waifu.

>>6550998
retard

>>6551012
>>6551001
>uhh you're wrong cause.... you just are!!

>>6551000
If you needed help so badly, /beg/boy. Just ask https://youtube.com/@DavidFinchartist

>>6550917
His tutorials are teach in a super wierd way.

How much of draw a box is actually worth doing? I've been doing the first few homework exercises as warmups since I'm low /beg/ and they've helped a little

>>6551095
I feel like everything up to and including the 250 boxes helped me out a lot, the 50% rule is genuinely a good rule of thumb and you can just space out the boxes so that you do 20 a day, literally only two weeks or so of doing that and your skill at manipulating 3d boxes in perspective pretty much has to improve because how the fuck couldn't it doing it 250 times?

I dropped it at the part on textures though, because there are way better resources for that like alphonso dunn

>>6551110
Thanks anon, so basically just lesson 1 then?

>>6551246
yeah, pretty sure there are much better resources for everything else that are widely known outside of dumb shit like people getting memed into thinking loomis, bridgman and vilppu are a waste of time

I wonder if it's possible to come up with a list of 50 drawing exercises, all actually functional.

>>6552008
You’re looking for moat. Mark will take you right out of beg. Thank me later
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYXLyantCxfr6uF6zUTxQLg

>been drawing for almost 3 years
>post my art on the power level thread
>still /beg/
i recently started loomis and i feel the slight improvement, but i cant for the life od me understand how anatomy works

>>6552039
Boxes

>>6552039
How far into Loomis are you? He gets into some anatomy (at least in figure drawing for all it's worth), but there are better, more detailed, books for anatomy. A lot of people recommend Hampton or Bridgman.

>>6552067
i am currently finishing his book on heads and hands, dunno where to go from there. Feels like i reached a ceiling i cant break.

>>6551017
Not watching these bullshit tutorials. Post a video of someone creating the boxes in the op to draw a finished piece.

>>6545311
Hey anon is that you who constantly posts about construction with boxes? If yes, I gave it a try in incorporating it in how I usually do construction and figure drawing and it seems to resonate with me thanks bud!

>>6546487
By drawing the same thing again but changing it up a little

>>6545323
you filthy fucking accuracy nigger just don't give up do you

you will NEVER learn how to draw by becoming a printer

>>6553260
No, but having decent hand/eye coordination certainly helps, as does being able to accurately reproduce art that you like (by constructing it, not just copying it).

>>6553260
Construction requires accuracy. You must be a /beg/ if you don’t know that

>>6552069
Remember that scene in HxH where Netero goes into the forest for 10 years and just throws 10,000 punches of gratitude every day, and when he comes back to civilization, people are shocked that his punches move faster than the speed of sound?

You need to do that, but with figure drawing. Just spam figure drawing, and you will break through any ceiling

>>6553323
you think you are not /beg/ because you copied a couple of grided pictures? if you can't make a drawing work if your angle is not exactly the same as your reference you don't know how to draw, you know how to print a picture with the most retarded method you could come up with

>>6553381
How do you expect to draw proportionate figures from imagination if you can't observe it from a picture? All constructive knowledge comes from observation. To know what bones look like, you have to draw them from observation. To know what your anatomy looks like, you need to copy it from textbooks. Your ability to observe feeds your ability to draw from imagination. If you can't understand that much, I suggest you give up art.

beg this pro that do any of you faggots ever actually post what you draw lmao

>>6553326
"You're gonna have to make 10s of 1000s of bad drawings and sketches" is the one thing you're gonna have to accept if you're ever going to break out of /beg/.
In Bruce Lee's words:
>I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

>>6554082
I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 different subjects once, but I fear the man who has practiced drawing only boxes 10,000 times.

>>6553326
that is just an ancient human cope. Its assuming that people have stats like an rpg and you can just grind in the level 1 zone for years to become level 99. That's not how experience works. People are born at different levels and are capped to different levels.

>>6553445
I am sorry to hear you have been lobotomized, I thought this procedure has been banned decades ago, so I will try to put it in very simple and clear words for you to understand, ok? if angle changes, if your head move, if you miss an angle and you can't make it fit to the rest of the drawing, it means you would be unable to draw what you are seeing in a different perspective or rotation. therefore, you are not drawing, you are just pretending you are. you can, however, keep doing absolutely anything you want, as even if you are sub 80 IQ I hold no responsability over you. it is not my job to clean up your drooling
you suck dick, you can't draw without a reference and you will stay like this forever

>>6553326
nta, but i tried gesture drawing and it all turns out super shitty and/or unfinished as if i’m completely missing something. is it supposed to be super hard starting out? should i just grind for about a week and see if something clicks?

I don't even know anymore, guys..
I don't even know..

>>6549945
The board is divided up into
>passing skill artists who are bored
>romanticized begs who dont draw but think theyd be great when they do
>pros who only come to offer a sprinkle of advice, post their superior work, and dip
when you realize actual progressing beginners are a minority, then you'll realize you have to learn on your own

>>6554126
gesture drawing is a pseudo-filter. to do good gestures, you need to know what it means to 'feel'. 'feel' the forms. 'feel' the volumes. its not just a study of understanding shape, its a study of aesthetic. thats why its hard to learn/teach. when it clicks in your head, either now or later, you'll understand and you'll be on your way.

>>6545311
I did the following:
>browsed IC all day and called it studying and catching inspiration
>engaged in every thread I could, gave my opinion to everybody
>made a 5 minute schedule to check twitter to see if anyone liked my work
>asked people which brushes they used
>dismissed art books by older professionals, since I knew I know better
>watched youtube videos to motivate me while I wasn't browsing here
>discussed with my peers (on discord) how to best use my time drawing
>did 9 minute doodles from imagination and called it a day
that about sums it up. follow my routine and you'll be out of beg in no time

>>6554379
>this board is divided into: beginner, intermediate and professional artists
eye opening observations

>>6554123
you are so retarded. no one is talking about duplicating exact curves. But you need to be able to observe properly to understand 3d form in the world. I'm not wasting my time on you anymore.

>>6546045
Didn't you an hero like 10 years ago?

I've been doing DrawABox for like 2 years now. And by that I mean I first found out about draw a box 5 years ago, did it for a few days, quit, then did it again a few years later, then quit immediately, then tried again a few days ago, then quit again.

I've been telling my family and friends that I've been learning to draw this whole time but it's completely delusional. I never draw. I've never even gotten to the box lessons, just the first line lessons.

I don't know why I'm like this? How do I stop being like this? I hate myself so fucking much.

>>6554601
Do this

https://davidfinchart.com/where-to-start-and-where-to-go-from-there-a-roadmap-to-professional-quality-art/

>>6546248

>>6554379
The only anon that I've seen improve is snow. Esdeath anon said he'd surpass him because they were on an equal skill level. I noticed that snow drew different pictures while Esdeath continued to draw the same shit on repeat.

I did still life drawing, copied art I like, and also learned proportions. I was low int after 2 years of that. I draw anime but I still a lot of realism work.

>>6554601
>I don’t know why I’m like this
no one here is qualified to explain, either. there are many possible factors influencing your behavior. maybe your previous high efforts went unnoticed and unrewarded, or maybe you have a disability like adhd. whatever it is, drop the self-loathing and seek help

How many hours a day should be spent drawing if I want to be /int/ in a year?

>>6556092
毎日二時間描き!

>>6556092
2000 hours of deliberate practice... 5.4 hours per day.

>>6556092
9hrs

>>6554601
don't do drawabox

>>6554385
I keked

>>6554601
How old are you? It could a variety of reasons like one anon said. Diet, screens, trauma, age, mental illness, IQ etc. At the very least when you have kids give them the discipline you didn’t get and push them to learn things(cool things) early on.

>>6548556
Sure
>>6545982
>will drawing basic shapes like circles and squares actually help me improve
Yes
>mindlessly
No

Lots of replies on DAB here. What has helped me do drawabox and what filtered me initially is looking too much for perfection and getting hung up on it. Just do good enough and progress and do ones you struggle with as an exercise daily or in your freetime.
>pyw
No

>>6556887
any specific course you recommend?

>you can simplify the torso and pelvis as boxes
Okay now what

>>6549325
Anon, your drawings are going to look bad to you. That's just how it is. You have to push through and not let your pride get in the way of improving your art.

>>6557190
A lot cover the same things. What's important is to actually pick one and do it. Ones I personally like are the Vilppu figure courses and Perspective made easy.

What is a good really structured course for beginners?
I basically need someone to spell everything out for me and tell me how to practice

>>6550001

>>6557559

You just, uh, you know. Erase them and draw the body. Bodies have lots of straight lines and edges, right?

>>6550001
kek

>>6557559
Keep drawing boxes. Forever

>>6557559
Use the top 2 corners as the end of the clavicles, just extend the shoulder out from them and down the arm. about half down the torso box is the nipple line so draw the bottom of your pecs there. Bottom 2 corners are the end of the ribcage, just draw the waist from those connecting it to the top 2 corners of the pelvis, where the pelvis bone sticks out the most. If you making a sexy lady, make the waist curve inward, if it's more like (you), make those lines bulge out. Figure out how to turn the pelvis box into the thighs yourself, I think you are capable of it. Then you erase the fucking boxes, replacing their edges with slightly more natural and curved lines that fit what a torso actually looks like.

Literally
>Find photo ref or drawing
>Draw the meme boxes on top
>On blank page, copy those boxes as accurate as possible
>Start looking at the photo ref, how higher are the shoulders compared to the box? How far out do they go before they turn downwards into the arms? Etc. Now try to copy those onto the boxes you already made using them as anchor points.

>>6559352
THE ART & SCIENCE of DRAWING - brent eviston

>>6559352
>>6559588
Seconding Eviston, was the first course that worked for me as a beg and gave me actually good fundies. Figure Drawing by Steve Huston is also good if you are ok doing books.

>>6545311
None. I drew 400+ pages of my comic and improvement pretty much came as a direct result of that. I didn't study or grind fundies or anything, I just made my project my practice.

>>6559608
pyw

>>6545311
Nothing.
I can't even break into /beg/

>>6559611
Sure.

>>6559632
nta but nice progress anon!

>>6559608
>>6559632
did you have manga up on the side as you drew your own comic, to check how to improve your work?

>>6559754
Not as much as I should have. Obviously I would read stuff, but I rarely directly compared my comics with others side-by-side. Of course I'd notice things they were doing and try to integrate that into my own work, but I never truly sat down and studied them.

>>6545311
I CAN'T EVEN DO THE FUCKING CUBES PROPERLY. My vision is shit. And after a year I still can't do this exercise, I still can't do basic 3D forms

>>6560492
>I CAN'T EVEN DO THE FUCKING CUBES PROPERLY
py cubes

>>6560613
Quick mouse drawing to exaggerate the shittiness. Usually comes out looking like this. Even when drawing lines to vanishing point

>>6560674
Your cylinder looks more like the windows recycling bin, but your cubes are fine.
Being a perfectionist over dumb shit is what keeps you in /beg/ tier, move on to the next chapter.

>>6560674
Your cubes are fine. You will iron out the imperfections with experience as long as you understand how perspective works.

>>6559774
Did you sit down and learned how to write a story or did you just start writing?

>>6557559
Don't simplify mindlessly. It's a gradual process. The most basic simplification is the 2 cubes connected by a line. Learn about the form and function of your skeletal system and then simplify as much as you need to. Once you understand the skeleton, this will form a good basis to understand the roles of specific muscles and their forms. Do this in conjunction with gesture and figure drawing so that your drawings don't come out stiff.

>>6560492
you can draw figures using only box forms though cant you? this is just a step up to that, the box is the torso.

>>6560674
They look like 3d objects even if there are still some minor issues.
Don't get stuck trying to perfect them and move on, you'll also get better at forms if you practice figure drawing or something and will probably be less bored.

>>6560895
Kind of. But I struggle a lot with proportion in perspective, rotating forms, cylinders, organic forms, warped cubes and stuff

>>6560844
I just jumped, in anon. At first, the writing and the art blow chunks. Over time, through mileage, they both improved. Maybe they'd have improved faster, or with a stronger foundation if I had devoted my time to study instead, but I know that I only had/have motivation to draw my comics. I just can't be bothered to pick up my stylus if it's not going to be directly contributing to a comic. If I had stubbornly decided "no, I MUST study" then I probably wouldn't be drawing right now, I probably would have just quit.

>>6560492
Hey anon I’m doing the manual but I’m on exercise one. Am I doing this right? This is what he wants you to do right?

>>6561425
>>6560492
This is my model I’m using btw

I think my visual imagination is getting weaker and weaker

>>6561425
>picrel
download right now Eviston figure drawing
here
pixeldrain com
/l/r42EMHtA
/l/KpW7r5h9
/l/TSMsmjRK

>>6561592
Same, I think I have health issues

>>6561594
Are you a bot?

>>6545311
forcing myself to learn a new thing everyday

>>6562440
I think Eviston is shilling himself on this board.
>Unknown art teacher
>Mediocre art
>Shilled in every thread

It's that, or it's one very obsessed and grateful anon.

I think Vilppu is shilling himself on this board.
>Unknown art teacher
>MEDIOCRE art
>Shilled in every thread

It's that, or it's one very obsessed and grateful anon.

>>6562936
someone's butthurt...

Vilppu:
>taught at disney and art center
>famous in the animation industry
>TREMENDOUS art
>Crabbed on in every thread by Eviston-tards

>>6562938
>>TREMENDOUS art
LMAO

>>6562943
Yes.

A lot of people are saying to copy without tracing

But what if my copies take forever to look even mildly passable?

>>6564068
forgot to add the pic

>>6564068
Speed comes with familiraiarity

>>6564068
Learn loomis instead

>>6564071
block in

the mf sounds like Hans Moleman

>>6562936
You've never encountered a fanboy before? Anyway vilppu is based

>>6564068
speed is just as important as accuracy, keep practicing

>>6545456
>https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Drawing-Practice-Sheets-1171485
I'm sure someone else has free ones

>>6546203
>I went through a phase of only drawing busty fat women because i was so into his spherical forms.
kek

>>6546038
who is krenz and what does he do?

>>6549940
sanest /ic/ 4chinner ever

>>6549343
i wish i could be your friend desu

>>6545982
being able to draw them well will help, what you do is you break everything down into basic BASIC shapes and detail out for landmarks.

should you grind them, fuck no, small warm up exercises will do the trick.

>>6564068
>>6564421

speed comes in time, don't expect to be fast or good from the start, but expect the more comfortable you are with something to get faster at it.