/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6537082
>no proof
not that it matters anyway, you're clearly not drawing

there appears to be a pattern with popular manga artists...

>>6537104
who?

>>6537104
hol' up
so u be sayin' dat we are anime n shiet

>>6537104
Elaborate

>>6537095
>needs proof
zoomers are truly fucked beyond belief. If you can't tell that that is a CG image, you are canon fodder bro.
I draw and I've used 3D and it makes your works look like shit. I rather just do drawings with wrong perspective then to give away SOVL. picrel

>>6537104
that's so shit man. Not even referencing from it.
Nasty nigga

>>6537082
It's like with all these popular bodybuilder/fitness gurus.
They all pin.

>>6537082
>>blatantly traces 3D models.

I sure hope he fucking does. The manga industry is a meat grinder and I want artists to live past 60.

CSM's art being stiff is part of its charm and the narrative itself has plenty of soul. If CSM has a hideous style and it is still popular it sure as fuck must have something else going on.

Just go read other stuff. Witch hat atelier and Dungeon Meshi both have plenty of soulful art with very little in terms of shortcuts.

Hell, if you absolutely need to see teenagers fighting against monsters Dandadan is out there too.

>>6537082
Who cares? The anime was full of CGI and was still watched by millions.

>>6537082
literally all manga trace is traced, convert to line art or photobashed. it has been this way forever. yes, even before computers, they were tracing everything. prince of tennis assistants on record interviews stating they filled books of traced sports magazines for poses. whenever they need a shot, they opened it up and flipped through looking for the shot. then they add anime face and any of the minor character details.

schools and temples and all backgrounds are just toner packs in the past. its why everything looke dthe same for schools and temples. trees, bushes, clouds are all basic toner packs.

today, they just use clip paint asset store and blender and other shit. Oh Great! is classic for digital tracing and 3d models. People eat his tenjo tenge up. Today he's much better 3d model tracer with bakemonogatari adaptation and people praise it as best art ever when its 100% traced. Gantz is another early one. photoshop tracing and photobashing. His method is on video and admitted. People think its good art still. Not drawn. One of more popualr shitters now is douki-chan and tetsuwa mondays guy. literally and unironically just traces random instathots. doesnt even attempt to hide it. they honestly believe its great art and the women are hot and looks great when its flattest looking art ever and blatant tracings with paint overs. sometimes just blurs realistic background of hte same image. its bizarro world with these bug eyes on "realistic" bodies. they cheer for it and defend the 'great art'.

AI cant come soon enough to replace these fucking trash.

>>6537082
Plenty of manga has shit art with great story. The art in manga is only a vehicle for the story.

NEVER SKIP FIGURE DRAWING like chainsaw man's autor
8m14s
https://youtu.be/8W2m7fW5j5k?t=495

>>6537116
>I've used 3D and it makes your works look like shit.
True, it's kinda weird how being 90% of the way there with your persperspective makes it look best... like a reverse uncanny valley.

>>6537082
How to tell you've never drawn manga/doujin on a deadline without stating so.

>>6537095
That TV crew might be from a photo but there's no way the crowd isn't 3D, nobody is that stiff.

But who fucking cares anyway, as long as it works

>taking this obvious of a bait
why do I keep coming back here

>>6537211
Yes it's very true.
>>6537244
>>6537209
Obviously I haven't dealt with their deadlines, no one in the west has. But you guys are overlooking the fact that Chainsaw man is huge, and as so, the publishing company can easily hire staff and assistants.
Otomo did a lot of industrial design and background art for Akira and Domu, but he obviously had assistants, great ones at that, such as Satoshi Kon.
Same goes for Takehiko Inoue. I watched this yesterday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-dn4jpYe0o
His assistants did most of the background work, following his orders.
I simply think the standards were lowered, and the otakus eat it up because they are dumb and uncultured like >>6537095 .

>>6537215
that's it! it has it be a bit wrong in order to look good.

>>6537082
His style is unironically like this, surprisingly it's not 3d.

>>6537279
>the publishing company can easily hire staff and assistants.
"The publishing company" doesn't hire staff or assistants for authors at all. At best the editor might recommend senior assistants looking for work. No, it's up to the author to find and hire (and pay, and schedule) assistants.
And don't make the mistake of thinking hiring assistants makes all the problems go away. You still need to convey to the assistants what exactly you want, which is a very involved process, and usually you still end up having to make corrections yourself. It's still an annoying process that takes a lot of work. It's only the actual act of inking/toning the background that is handed off, the author still needs to do everything else and then have to explain how they want it inked.
>I simply think the standards were lowered, and the otakus eat it up because they are dumb and uncultured like
No, you're simply comparing some of the top-of-the-line artists of all time with a fairly mediocre-to-bad artist in the current era. There were plenty of junkers back then. Look at 90% of the manga in the period Otomo was drawing Akira, he was clearly blowing the lid off of manga as a whole.

>>6537279
>>6537333
He had no assistants during Akira.

>>6537207
> AI cant come soon enough to replace these fucking trash.
Crabs too lazy to create 3d models and find photos to trace are reduced to shilling AI now. This is getting sad. Go draw.

Even USA's early art manual for commercial art and drawing comics and people is to keep a morgue file. A drawer filled with whatever picture the artist took, clipped from whatever magazine so he has reference material or tracing source.

It's just baffling that US creators have more Access to tech to speed up drawing and still loses the comics sales to Japanese teenage comics.

>>6537429
Probably because art has nothing to do with comics sales. The biggest periods for American comics was arguably also their lowest artistic points

>>6537287
its 100% 3d models. this includes all backgrounds. car, bushes, etc all clip paint assets. the main characters have some work to them, but all are 3d. like what used in architecture for revitt etc. if you dont know how to recognize this shit by eye please stop commenting. there is no hand drawn part of it.

>>6537526
Obviously I'm not talking about the bgs retard. Compare figures to his earlier stuff it's the same stiffness

Here's the thing, he has a job and a time schedule.
He has a degree on oil painting, so most of his actual talent isn't on drawing per se, but painting and composition and paneling, which is what truly shines about CSM.

>>6537215
Isn't that still exactly the uncanny valley? Looking close enough is fine, up until like the last 10%, in which case it starts to immediately look disproportionately wrong, and then it just as quickly looks good again at the last percentile or whatever?

So what your saying is it's right BEFORE the uncanny valley?

>>6537207
PYW and NGMI

>>6537082
>>6537104
Well duh, comic artists hardly hide the fact that they take as many shortcuts as possible to meet their quota. Who are you guys to criticise these working professionals, that are following in the steps of all the other great professionals, who actually get their work out there rather than just posting a sketch on twitter every couple of months?

What's that Famous Wally Wood quote? It's something like:
>Don't Draw from imagination, when you can reference
>Don't reference when you can trace
>Don't trace if you can just paste it in?

And yet you want these guys to work harder than they already are, so they can meet YOUR dumbass definitions of artist purity.
Fuck off.

>>6537890
so you’re in support of AI? good to know

>>6537621
No because that would mean that 100% looks great and totally not traced while 80% looks good and totally not wonky.

>>6537891
>so you’re in support of AI?
As part of a process or tool? Yeah. I don't care if someone uses AI for backgrounds or a base to work off of or whatever else.
If you asking me if I support AI comics though - No, they all look like shit, are stiff, and annoying to read. I'm in support of shortcuts, not dropping the standards so low that the art isn't enjoyable anymore.

>>6537921
>background artists are not artists
lmao ok retard.

>looks like shit, stiff, annoying
can you throw any more meaningless buzzwords in your word salad?

>in support of shortcuts but not too much!!
god you sound like a faggot. manga and comics should be pursued by the most passionate of the craft. it’s the publishers that fuck them over not hard work or deadlines.

>>6537927
Way to be a try hard angsty contrarian dumbass anon. Yes, shortcuts are good until quality drops and turns audiences away, to even try debating that shows how fucking retarded you are.

>>6537942
hey monkey, how about taking a step back and see the bigger picture? why does an artist need short cuts in the first place? to pump out something within a shorter time and therefore sacrificing its quality? WHO is applying that level of pressure? the publishers, of course.

and what does a publisher do that someone in this day and age can’t with amazon, patreon, twitter, and all these other social media platforms? you can even be the judge of your own deadlines so nothing needs to be rushed.

even writers are self publishing these days. there is literally no excuse.

>>6537082
>>one of the most popular comic book artists
>>blatantly traces 3D models.
Like every other professional manga artist has been doing it since forever.

>>6537082
fake it till u make it

>>6537957
Okay mouth breather, let's see if you follow your own moral standard.

Are you making your own ink, brush and paper? No, guess your taking shortcuts and compromising on your vision then

>B-b-but that would be unreasonable, that's too much work and I'd never get anything done! Could the audience even tell the difference?
And there it is, that's the same logic as using any other shortcut.

>But the publishers are forc-
And do you think that the audience never pressures the artist to work a little more quickly? That the artist needs to keep up in this fast paced low attention spanned world?

Or how about the artist pressuring themself? Do you really think every artist wants to spend 6 years, or however long, working on their comic? Maybe they're doing it as a hobby, maybe full-time, but as the time goes on and the pressure build up, and interest wains, how many do you think slug it out?
Sure some do, but probably not many. Meanwhile if there were shortcuts that helped them while they didn't compromise on their vision, why shouldn't they take it? Because a little bitch like you whines on the internet? Go fuck yourself

And think about all the work that can now be created because of shortcuts such as AI. Perhaps single artists will be able to create feature length animated films by themselves, would that be "compromising their vision", even if the alternatives mean the film never gets made?

Also, assuming you're the same guy who wrote:
>background artists are not artists
>lmao ok retard.
I can't believe you then go on about the virtues of self publishing. Do you think indie artist who self publish all have the cash to splash on background artists? lmao ok retard.

Do you even think before you start slapping the keyboard with your nonsense shithead?

>>6537116
Artist?

>>6537957
>Noo you are supposed to increase your efficiency!!
Is this nigger serious?

>>6537998
he signed it at the bottom

>>6537082
the manga art for chainsaw man was always a little stiff and weird. most comics aren't carried by their art tho, but rather the story. they're just trying to get an idea across and if they accomplish this then great, maintaining some sort of artistic integrity wasn't really important in accomplishing that goal

>>6537082
>OP is blatantly lacking a brainstem
lol

>>6537082
As others have pointed out, the manga industry presses you to use these, and the anime industry similarly uses a lot of 3d animation too. You can take all the time you want on a piece, and draw it without aid, but corner cutting measures are taken when you are a part of the industry producing products for consumers, which have deadlines.

Unless you are some one of a fucking kind artist who brings in billions, you have expectations. Think of it how the big name actors in the movie industry can basically do whatever they want, even partially edit movie scripts and influence the production process because fuck you, they can. But any second rate actor has to play a different game.

>>6537957
>and what does a publisher do that someone in this day and age can’t with amazon, patreon, twitter, and all these other social media platforms?
Pay up front. That's the whole reason to go to a publisher in the first place, and always has been. Can't build an audience without starving to death otherwise.

>its not traced, you need to learn fundamentals
>alright its traced, but they're pros so they're allowed, you can't trace you have to use perspective and construction
>its traced but who cares? stop using perspective and construction and just trace models, no rules just tools

WHICH IS IT?

>>6537279
For every straight line here did they trace a guide on digital (those colored lines you can put that snap your cursor) or did they freehand the windows? I can't even draw a straight line on tablet because its like drawing on ice covered in oil.

>>6537557
This.
Chainsaw Man Manga has never been famous for having good art, but for the funny meme or impressive panels, which he clearly knows how to do very well.

>>6537991
>muh audience will never know if i use shortcuts anyways!!!
KEK with that logic why not just use AI entirely?

listen sweaty, there are literal 15 year olds making webtoons after school and 40 year old christmas cakes that make gay porn while working their secretary drone job in an office.

even mangakas have to create one shots or some completed body of work of PROOF so publishers can take their bets on them to invest in.

>indie artists can’t afford background artists!!! IDIOT!
just learn to draw backgrounds, IDIOT!

you need to be at least 18 years old to browse here you dumb zoomie fuck. it’s because of you dumbfucks who needs to be handheld for everything that the world’s standards keep getting lower.

>>6538113
wrong, how would a publisher decide to invest in you without you having some work you had already competed?

there is no guarantee a publisher would pay you upfront without first green lighting your work and making you jump a series of hoops to finally get published.

>>6538175
>>its not traced, you need to learn fundamentals

As a beginner you do need to learn the fundamentals. You can still mess up by using a 3D model because it won't cover all of your bases.


>>alright its traced, but they're pros so they're allowed, you can't trace you have to use perspective and construction

Pros are "allowed" because they've proven that the already have the fundamentals down and a good grasp on perspective and construction already. They don't need to use 3D models but it helps save time for complicated shots when you're on a deadline. Plus this isn't even saying they use them all the time or even at all. Same with things like perspective grids in art programs.

>>its traced but who cares? stop using perspective and construction and just trace models, no rules just tools

Ties into the first one.

Pros that use models already have a good grasp on Anatomy, perspective ,and construction. Again its just a time saver but if you don't have that much experience with those fundamentals then you have to make sure to polish up on them draw without a 3D model as well. Relying on them isn't bad but over-relying on them can be a problem.


"No Rules Just Tools" is more like people that think you're cheating if you use a model, stabilizer, or rulers and grids. The weirdos that think using a stencil for a circle means they aren't real artists or some shit like that.

>>6538198
Otomo is pre-digital.

>>6537364
What are you talking about? Satoshi Takabatake, a famous background layout artist, was Otomo's most important assistant during Akira's run and did basically all of the backgrounds. He literally puts "AKIRA Assistant" on his twitter profile. https://twitter.com/st_nomad

Again another thread by room temperature IQ retards that don't understand the media they're consuming.

Please for the love of fuck, just try to make a 30 page one-shot in any way you think it's supposed to be made and post it here so we can have a good laugh.

If not keep these crabby opinion with the other retards on /a.

>>6537116
>I can't do it so he must be cheating
Get out of pre beg before judging others

>>6538297
>Otomo is pre-digital.
By impressive panels I do not mean very detailed, well drawn backgrounds or anything like that.
I mean composition.
The reason why Chainsaw Man became famous to begin with, is because of memes, and these memes became memes because of how the panels manage to capture you because of their well designed composition.
I told you, the author of Chainsaw Man's actual ability is as a painter, so he doesn't really care about the art of comic making, shit, up close his characters are sometimes as stiff as stick figures, because he only really cares about the shapes.
But they're always very memorable, not because of the detail, but because they capture the eye in a way only someone who really understands composition can make them.

There's times reading Trigun, or JoJo where I can be impressed by the art, but it gets really confusing to understand what's going on.
CSM panels are clean and easy to follow, and understand pacing.

Can using 3D for adding detail be called cheating, if adding detail is not your objective to begin with, and just a nice extra_

>>6538649
samefag, but to put it in other words, let's make an example.
If I make art with shadows from statues I make, and my art is the shadows they make and controlling them with lights, would it be really cheating that I 3D printed some free assets for the statues? My art is not the statues.
If my art were the statues you could make a point of me being a cheater, but my art is shadow projection.

>>6538649
you are retarded by every definition of the word.

>>6538659
You're being too sophisticated for the average, prebeg, never-fail-because-they-don't-even-try d/ic/khead. Keep it simple. It doesn't matter if he is using 3D models and assests because it doesn't matter if doing that is "cheating" at art because you cannot cheat at fucking art. You can plagiarise, but you can't fucking cheat. Not even line-for-line exactly tracing an anime girl and insisting you did that all on your own is cheating, because actually that's just intellectual theft.
>>6538660
Typing in all lowercase... Back to the Twitter gulag you go.

>>6537082
Have you ever heard about Gantz or Innocent?

>>6538222
>wrong, how would a publisher decide to invest in you without you having some work you had already competed?
Just because current (western) publishing is busted doesn't mean what I said is wrong, anon. Up front pay is still why you would go to a publisher, it just so happens that they mostly only hire already successful artists.
>there is no guarantee a publisher would pay you upfront without first green lighting your work and making you jump a series of hoops to finally get published.
Yes, it would probably require jumping through hoops, but it's pretty damn difficult to make your perfect work if you're homeless and starving in the first place, which is when compromising the work to acquire funding (something that's appropriate and common practice in every other industry, by the way, but apparently unacceptable in comics?) becomes a worthwhile trade.
Besides, there's 0 guarantee for success outside of a publisher, but in that case you spent all that time and will never see a dime. At least you're gauging whether you can financially support yourself BEFORE you do all the work if you go to a publisher, and at least you're not financially ruined if they reject you.

The way you're thinking of this makes me think you haven't actually thought about the logistics of trying to support yourself with comics.

>>6538649
>The reason why Chainsaw Man became famous to begin with, is because of memes,
I truly hope you don't believe this.

>>6537104
>there appears to be a pattern with popular manga artists...

the fact you dont mention the numerous comic artist like greg land proves that manga lives in your head rent free, cry more

>>6538215
>muh audience will never know if i use shortcuts anyways!!!
>KEK with that logic why not just use AI entirely?
Nice job ignoring my argument - I'm sure you draw using the computer you type this on, why aren't you drawing with pen/paper? Ah, because YOU (assuming it's the same (you)) get to decide what shortcuts are fine? You're the arbiter? Also you already asked me why I wouldn't just use AI entirely, and got upset with my "word salad" response, apparently you don't understand the word "stiff".

>there are literal 15 year olds making webtoons
This entire discussion is about quality... and that's your point of comparison?...
Maybe people want to make a comic about something of greater depth than two cats talking about videogames.

> 40 year old christmas cakes that make gay porn while working their secretary drone job in an office.
We're talking about bigger projects here, not a single picture of gay porn.

>indie artists can’t afford background artists!!! IDIOT!
>just learn to draw backgrounds, IDIOT!
YES! Just work harder! Don't do anything smarter! If you aren't taking longer than necessary on your projects, are you truly passionate?
If your project was taking to take you 2 years, turn that into 5, because you need to draw EVERYTHING to anon's standard. Using photos? Cheating. 3D Models? Cheating. Using the same panel more than once? Cheating! References? CHEATING!
Yet hiring someone else to do your backgrounds is fine because... umm...

You also completely ignored my point of being able to accomplish projects that were untenable prior to using shortcuts. Maybe the person wanted to create something akin to "Wachmen", or "Akira", but you'd prefer they make a webtoon so they can draw everything themselves.

Also I didn't call you an idiot, I called you a retard because your arguments have been entirely retarded, and frankly I'm being retarded for even arguing with you. It's like what they say, "Play with a retard, you'll become retarded too".

if your goal is to be a mangaka then sure, learn from them

but if you're goal is anything else, why the fuck are you learning from mangaka?

>3d models

>>6539196
retard show us your 100% uniquely made manga then if you think you know better.
some of you autistic fucks who probably haven't even put a portfolio together oughta off yourselves.
guarantee you'll never finish anything, none of the losers that think like you ever do.

>>6539267
>pyw
That's your rebuttal? pfft.
And where's your work, Mr.Perfectionist? I'm sure it'll be done after you finish all those backgrounds - No shortcuts used, of course.

>>6538714

This. They even include some of the process inside the manga. I love it when they do that.

>>6537082
>>6537104
>>6539215
b-b-but Japaneses are the best artists in the entire universe, why don't they draw their manga like Kim Jung Gi drew? Where's their asian jeans?

>>6538714
I like the art f gantz and innocent (thought the second would be better if it was less feminist and more focused and beautiful males).

But about the trace itself, what about? Do they trace too?

>>6539319
Ah, I was disappointed by that. I tend to think very highly about the japanese.

>>6539320
* focused on

>>6539320
>more focused and beautiful males
Read his new one DRCL, or whatever the real name is.
And yes, they both trace. Gantz guy traces heavily on 3D models too, the latest chapters are quite blatant.

>>6537207
>Gantz is another early one. photoshop tracing and photobashing.
They even explained in their first volume. It's nothing new in their case.

Somebody mind explaining to me what the issue is with using 3d models and photos you took, exactly? Seems pretty obvious to me it's done for pretty good reason -- achieving a look that would otherwise be impossible within their deadlines. It's hardly cheating, I mean all of these guys can draw just fine without using these tools already. So what's the problem, exactly?

>>6539585
>Somebody mind explaining to me what the issue is with using 3d models and photos you took, exactly?

copy/pasting that into your work makes it look cheap, stale and overall, very low quality.
using is as reference is ok,picrel.

>>6539714
But they're not copy and pasting it. They are drawing over the 3D models and tracing over the pictures. And not one of them is grandstanding about how tracing is bad or whatever. Tracing pictures and drawing over 3D models is bad for /beg/s and /int/s because it prevents you from learning how to construct that on your own. Professional artists (especially of comics and mangas are comics) with a couple assistants, monthly deadline, and uncaring publisher have no reason not to use shortcuts.

>>6539196
since you didn’t read my argument i won’t read yours zoom-zoom.

what did you suppose artists did before there was CSP and 3D models? PLENTY of mangakas got by fine without using such lazy shortcuts.

you’re just pissy because you can’t draw and want an excuse to keep using crutches for your shitty webtoon because your idol hackimoto justified your use of it. in reality, shortcuts look like shit and everyone can tell.

and 40 year old office christmas cakes are making whole ass doujinshi’s of their favorite ship, not just single gay pictures. goes to show how much you actually know about making manga KEK. if hobbyists can afford to make manga on their own time and make money off it, you don’t need a publisher.

and 15 year old webtoon artists have better work than anything i’ve seen on /ic/ so what are you on about “quality” KEK!!!!

hope your shitty collage has a good story to carry it because nothing else will. the manga audience has some of the most autistic critics you’d ever meet, and this is who you’re bending over for to get their money!

this thread seems to be missing the point that manga is story telling first, art comes second if it's even considered

>>6539845
not true, great art carrie’s terrible story telling too. see berserk for example.

>>6539792
>But they're not copy and pasting it
a lot of them are. Gantz literally imported 3d assets to bg via filter.
>They are drawing over the 3D models and tracing over the pictures.
It looks bad. see: >>6539215 or picrel, Greg Land. People know it's traced. There's a little something called Lens distortion and it's transferred to drawing when you do observational drawing from a 2D image, let alone tracing it. Stuff that is draw from imagination using construction methods or observational drawings from real life don't have that lens distortion and will always look better and SOVL.

>Professional artists (especially of comics and mangas are comics) with a couple assistants, monthly deadline, and uncaring publisher have no reason not to use shortcuts.
again, comic book artists always had those deadlines. Only the standards changed, and now anything goes because coonsumers are too eager and will eat anything.
If 3d and traced shit doesn't bother you, I'm sure you are going to love the AI comics and so forth. Furthermore, I don't even know what you are doing on a drawing board. if you think it looks fine, just go learn blender and trace shit. See how that works out for you.

>>6537082
It's pretty common, I was still pissed when I found out Akira Hiramoto draws over 3D models for Prison School, I feel like it should been obvious but it still sucked

>>6539845
>this thread seems to be missing the point that manga is story telling first

Eh? a lot of popular manga are carried by the art because they have dogshit narratives

>>6539838
>Make a response replying to each of your points
>"you didn’t read my argument i won’t read yours zoom-zoom."
Holy shit you're a fucking retard.

>what did you suppose artists did before there was CSP and 3D models? PLENTY of mangakas got by fine without using such lazy shortcuts.
And? I never argued to the contrary. People got by drawing without computers, so why aren't you working purely on pen and paper, Mr.Artistic-Purity?
(and by the way, they had plenty of tricks to make their jobs easier, such as transferable backgrounds that worked like their half-tone sheets, frequent use of the easier to draw chibi style, etc)

>you’re just pissy because you can’t draw and want an excuse to keep using crutches for your shitty webtoon
Never done it myself, I just don't see the issue, because I'm not a retarded hypocritical tight-ass

> 40 year old office christmas cakes are making whole ass doujinshi’s of their favorite ship, not just single gay pictures.
You're the one who brought in the single gay picture example, and if they want to spend the time drawing every detail of some dudes ass ring being torn open across 20 pages, they're welcome to. Some people don't have the time. Some people Don't have the drawing talent. Some people have a deadline. Some people are just tired and want to finish.
I'm happy with them drawing however they want so long as it looks good, you're the one telling them they're creating their work wrong.

>and 15 year old webtoon artists have better work than anything i’ve seen on /ic/ so what are you on about “quality” KEK!!!!
And yet you still don't have the balls to pyw, but continue to talk from a point of artistic authority. And we're talking about quality because this entire discussion is about how shortcuts will lessen the quality of a work. Have you forgotten what it is you're even discussing and arguing about you fucking moron?

>hope your shitty collage...
It'd be one thing than you'll ever release.

>>6538320
>follow a nip guy for the art
>he posts 30 photos of him going cycling instead

>>6539862
You know what? Your arguments convinced me, because Greg Land is a hack and looking at Gantz through the same lens, comparing that kind of work to the works of Steve Ditko or Kentaro Miura, I can only conclude that you are right. It does cripple your art, and there is no real excuse to do it. Miura didn't do it even as his health continued worsening. I kneel.

>>6539900
>Check out Western Artist's account
>Almost all the images are memes and reaction images
I'd prefer the biking images.

>>6539911
>Miura didn't do it even as his health continued worsening

funny you say that! I was just looking at Miura's Duranki and he did use 3D. picrel for ex.
We have to cut him some slack tho, he did know how to draw proper bg etc, and he openly liked to experiment.
I don't view such practices as "hack", but It doesn't look good.

>Innocent

Theres literally nothing wrong with tracing if you take the photos yoursef

>NOOOO YOU CAN'T USE 3D MODELS
Literally who fucking cares, the pivotal moments in the manga are still extremely well drawn, albeit crude. The author making a weekly manga justifies whatever avenue he needs to pump this out.

>>6537082
>one of the most popular comic book artists
Does Dav Pilkey art make you similarly seethe?

>>6539900
It's always a niche hobby, pets, or gacha shit

>>6539937
>picrel for ex.
What makes you draw that conclusion?
What in picrel is obviously 3D?

>>6540031
NTA but it's the crossbows.

>>6540038
Call me a dunce but I don't see it, just looks like plain old Miura autism to me.

>>6539896
>pyw pyw pyw
how about you first faggot? i guarantee your fundies are fucked to shit which is why you aren’t bothered by obvious crutches and can’t tell the difference in quality from traced shit and AI.

i’m done with your zoomer tier circular arguments. no on said anything about traditional vs digital. bith still require application of knowledge of their subjects. we are talking about TRACING and USING AI. it’s fucking chink shit. its plagiarism unless you use your own resources. even then, most people don’t know how to use it properly to make it look good because it’s painfully obvious how out of place it looks when it’s NOT in use.

nobody likes that shit. that’s why people lose respect when they realize someone traced their work; it’s like frauding your skill. it’s such a short sighted consumerist point of view where people keep bending over to who can shit out products the fastest. is it any surprise that the quality of art and consequently everything else has been on the decline?

you are probably the same kind of faggot that supported the LGBT movement. give fags an inch and they’ll take a mile: see now we have trannies who want to mind rape and physically rape kids into becoming trannies.

same ol shit with AI and tracing. keep bringing down the world standards to your level of retardation, why don’t ya. it’s fine as long as we can CONSOOM amirite?

get the fuck off my board, this place is for artists and not consumers with the taste of third worlders.

>>6540075
burden of proof is on you faggot
also there's countless examples of competent artists who are telling you not to trace in stupid ways
very few who are telling you to. none of these mangaka are. promoting "use 3d models and never learn fundies!"

>>6540077
who said anything about the mangakas promoting 3d? i’m talking down to the retard who thinks tracing and using AI is fine to do when there’s no reason to do so unless you work ridiculous nip hours while being locked into a contract. something that can be avoided if you are your own publisher.

>>6540031
please just go buy clip paint and load a 3d model and trace over it. you have neuroplasticity in the brain. it is blatant that is all 3d models traced over. if you want to say it doesnt matter or you are happy with art being traced with some minor details placed by the artist, fine, but you being unable to recognize something as simple as that example means you are literally retarded or someone that doesnt know how to draw, how to use the tools, or anything related to art.

>>6540075
>>6540080
>how about you first faggot?
As >>6540077 said, the burden of proof is on you Pussy.

>i guarantee your fundies are fucked to shit which is why you aren’t bothered by obvious crutches
Like I said, I don't do it myself, I just don't mind if others do it, so long as it still looks good.

>no on said anything about traditional vs digital
This is the first time I've actually gotten pissed at a 4chan discussion, and it's not because I'm trolled, but because I'm chatting with someone so mind-numblingly fucking retarded that they have seemingly misunderstood a point even a child would have gotten; let me spell it out point by point
>You are annoyed that Manga artists use 3D as a crutch for their work
>You Wish that they only drew the work in a standard way, using proper perspective methods etc.
>I say, why stop there, if you're going to be such a purist, why not demand they only draw with paper and ink?
This obvious comparison is asking where do you drawn the line of "artistic integrity" that you're preaching here? Why is using 3D a crutch, but not a computer to draw on?

>we are talking about TRACING and USING AI.
You've only mentioned AI once and got confused by my "World salad" response of "Yeah, use it for backgrounds and stuff, just not the entire thing".

>you are probably the same kind of faggot that supported the LGBT movement...
This is what coomsooming too much political shit does to a retard; turns him into a political cum brain. We're talking about comics, shut the fuck up.

>i’m talking down to the retard who...
Yeah, I did say that. I also said that it was fine so long as it didn't effect the quality, and I don't give a shit about nip hours, or deadlines, or whatever. Take whatever shortcuts you want to get your work done, Work Smart, not hard.
Anyway, an "intellectual heavy weight" like you can't talk down to anyone when you're carrying that massive load (of shit) on your shoulders. We're done here, fuck you.

>>6537116
>ive used 3d and it makes your work look like shit
your work is shit and youre not as good as you think you are. instead of praising the holy sanctity of professional art and doing everything yourself you need to understand that the business of manga is getting the story out on time and nobody gives a fuck about "MUH SOUL" if they dont get to read your works with any consistency. if you want to see the highest heights of skill youre not going to find it in serialized publications the same way youre not going to find the depth of your music taste by listening to pop radio stations

i am just completely in your mindset and seeing from your point of view but its so weak and flimsy you sound legitimately 15 years old and about to complain about a musician "selling out"

>>6539319
>>6539323
You're using weekly manga made on tight deadlines as an example and expecting the utmost quality?

>>6540215
>you need to understand that the business of manga is getting the story out on time and nobody gives a fuck about "MUH SOUL" if they dont get to read your works with any consistency.
>le gaijin manga expert

>>6539976
I hope he starts using AI and you eat that shit up.
>you will because you don't care about art and only wan the subpar story. Go read a book nigger.

>>6540725
>you need to be a manga expert to know why people were pissed off with Miura for not getting Berserk done on time
>popularly held as one of the best manga of all time
>creator died before finishing it because of how long it took

wow. PhD level insight.

>>6537082
mangaka churns out 12-21 pages of shit every week to 2 weeks, I won't blame them for using shortcuts as long as it doesn't effect the quality of the manga itself.

>>6537082
if tracing 3d makes you successful then why aren't you doing it? why isn't everyone doing it? why aren't all the people that trace 3d millionaires? idiot.

>>6538178
Ruler

>>6540103
Miura has been drawing like this for decades, stop being an actual retard.

>>6539862
So what you're saying is if I make the 3d model myself based on my art style and use a 3d program where I can change the lens distortion to more isometric then I can trace and no one will be able to tell?

>>6540728
What the fuck are you even talking about you ESL retard? Fuck off back to /g/ you thirdworld newfaggot.

>>6540031
just the stiffness and proportions make it pretty obvious.
its nbd though

>>6537082
You think the art matters more than it does. That's the real joke. I mean one punch man looks like a kids drawing.

>>6538320
that guy is excellent at drawing backgrounds.

>>6540605
Very obvious Gege exclusively uses gesture and assistants make the bg assets for JJK.

>>6537082
literally who cares?

start tracing 3D models and become a popular artist yourself then retard

>>6537082
i think 3d model should be allowed for comic books. they have to make this shit weekly

>>6539862
I never knew he traced the fucking stock image of the old man clutching his chest that is so goddamn funny

Literally no one has posted proof the CSM artist 'traces' 3D models. I'm not even doubting it as a possibility, but where's the actual evidence?

People who use references have no right to complain about AI art.

>>6537207
Truly the end result of industrializing art for the masses ha ha.

>watch an anime ova from the 90s because the art department is shooting off on all cylinders
>oops the writing fucking sucks
I prefer the alternative we're getting now which is shit art but great story.

>>6539215
Wow that looks so bad. And somehow my drawings still look worse...

>>6544898
just look at it.