/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6528970
putting a male face on a female body isnt androgyny

>>6528969

>>6528969
honestly the difference between men and women are so subtle sometimes there are thousands of paintings that I can be tricked by. That faceapp shit where you can change the gender of people really shows you how it's basically just softening of the features and changing certain proportions like the eyebrows.

They are all clearly men you retards need to wear glasses

>>6529065
How is that a female body?

all of these in here look completely feminine. There is no such thing as androgyny, just ugly women.

>>6529807
show me a man with legs like this and ill turn homosexual

>>6528969

>>6529846
>>6529744

>>6530419
this is just a troon

"The Lute Player" (Hermitage version, circa 1595) by Caravaggio.

>>6530419
that guy is so ugly irl they took a lot of artistic cretivity

"Antinous Mondragone" (c. 130-138 AD).

>>6530500
This is true androgyny, people who you can't tell right way if they're a butch chick or a pansy boy. Not handsome guys wearing make up and posing like JoJos.

Everyone who enters this thread seems to immediately gain very, very strong opions about what true androgyny is.

>>6530992
i just wanted some pics to draw, that's all this board is really good for

Noh theatre mask for the role of "Kasshiki", a young temple acolyte,18th century.

>>6530992
People takes their fetishes super seriously.

"Guanyin of the Southern Sea", Chinese, Liao (907-1125) or Jin Dynasty (1115-1234).

"Guanyin of the Southern Sea", Chinese, Liao (907-1125) or Jin Dynasty (1115-1234).

"The Farewell of Telemachus and Eucharis" by Jacques-Louis David (1818).

"Portrait of a Bacha" (c. 1867) by Vasily Vereshchagin.

>>6529065
What about the opposite?

>>6531846
damn what are those shoes

>>6531846
That's just called British genes

>>6531846
I feel that this might as well be the case with a few of the male wax mannequins produced by Pierre Imans in early 20th-century Paris (pic related). Even in the cases of those figures with more conventional masculine looks, there are several of them that feature the same big resin eyes with thick lashes as their female counterparts.

>>6530500
"Bacchus" (c. 1596) by Caravaggio.

Zinc-brass head of an "Ooni" (king). Yoruba culture, Ife, Nigeria, ca. 12th-15th century.

"Portrait of a Young Man" (c. 1513–1514) by Raphael, possibly a self-portrait. Whereabouts unknown since 1945. The coloring of the photograph is artificial.

>>6533103

>>6531306
Noh theatre mask depicting a "Kasshiki" (youthful temple attendant). Japan, mid-late Edo period, ca. 1704-1868.

>>6535802
>>6531306
>>6534484

Is there a reason why lots of these old masks and busts are seemingly deliberately androgynous?

short haired female, long haired male. that's all it takes to make it look androgynous.

>>6535816
There could be a variety of reasons. The easiest one to discern is that the artifacts in question portray adolescent and/or young adult males, so their androgynous appearance may be, for the most part, a normal byproduct of neoteny. After all, the line between "cute" and "feminine" can often be a blurry one.

Another motive that occurs to me is that, in certain cultures, people's notions of physical beauty are less strictly demarcated by gender. This ambiguity is quite noticeable in Edo-period Japanese prints, as well as in medieval Persian miniatures; excluding differences in attire, as well as the presence of gendered props, beautiful youths of both sexes are practically indistinguishable from one another. It could be said that, in those cultures, their notions of "pretty" and "handsome" have been subsumed in favor of a unisex concept of “beautiful".

And, of course, we have to acknowledge the elephant in the room: some people find androgyny sexy (pic related).

In the case of Edo-period Japan, there existed the practice of "shudō", a pederastic custom that somewhat resembled that of ancient Greece, in which Buddhist monks, samurai nobles and wealthy merchants had homoerotic relationships with adolescent males. Basically, IRL shotas and traps where quite fashionable back then. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that the makers of those Noh masks may have infused their works, at least subconsciously, with erotic connotations.

Regarding the Ife heads, I must admit that, besides the art of the Yoruba people, I remain quite uninformed about their culture and history. However, it has been documented that pederasty was practiced by some sub-Saharan ethnic groups (the case of the Zande people comes to mind), so it wouldn't be outlandish to consider the possibility that youthful male beauty may have been similarly eroticized among the Yoruba.

>>6535835
Like >>6530580 said that only works if they're in the soft boi/stout girl spectrum. A hot guy with long hair looks decidedly male, i.e. Peter Steele. A hot girl with short hair looks decidedly female, i.e. Audrey Hepburn.

>>6534484
Head of an "Ooni" (sacred ruler). Zinc-brass. Yoruba culture, c. 12-15th century. Wunmonije Compound, Ife, Nigeria.

The Japanese singer and actor Akihiro Miwa at age 15, when he was a student at Kaisei Junior High School in Nagasaki (circa 1950).

The Pre-Raphaelite model Jane Morris, wife of William Morris, posed by Dante Gabriel Rossetti (1865).

The British musician and actor Max Born at age 17, when he performed in the role of Giton in the movie "Fellini Satyricon" (1969), directed by Federico Fellini. Incidentally, he is the grandson of the German physicist and mathematician Max Born.

>>6530490
That's what Androgyny is

The Swedish model and actress Erika Linder.

"Italian Peasant Boy" (1866) by William Morris Hunt.

>>6530040
Surely men who naturally look like ugly women still count as androgynous.

Pic related, it's the "Portrait of Hans Geyger" (1501) by Wolf Traut.

>>6529846
Surely men who naturally look like ugly women still count as androgynous.

Pic related, it's the "Portrait of Hans Geyger" (1501) by Wolf Traut.

"Night Looking Upon Sleep, Her Beloved Child" (1895) by Simeon Solomon.

>>6535816
they LOVED bussy back then
edo japan, greco roman, arabic empires etc

>>6529858
You are homosexual, but you are just also dumb and annoying.

>>6529846
You are a neanderthal.

>>6543681
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNAT4ybsz_E

>>6544094
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMs4ijjWA60

>>6544094
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMs4ijjWA60

"Young Man with Book" (c. 1935) by José Cruz Herrera. It has been identified as a portrait of Sam Nahon, the younger brother of Orobida Nahon, a friend of the painter.

"Cherzea, Son of a Nomadic Chief" (1931), a lithograph from the "Yellow Cruise" series by Alexandre Jacovleff.

"Cherzea, Son of a Nomadic Chief" (1931), a lithograph from the "Yellow Cruise" series by Alexandre Jacovleff.

>>6528969

>>6528969
>body types

>>6528969

>>6535657
"Young Man with an Apple" (1505) by Raphael. It is thought to be a portrait of Francesco Maria I Della Rovere.

>>6529175
Not that I don’t believe you but could you give some examples?

>>6544094
Damn this video is alien built the pyramids level bad history

>>6540663
>>6537700
Handsome women and beautiful men are not androgyny. They're handsome and beautiful and would very rarely be thought to be the opposite sex at a glance.
Most androgynous people, as seen here
>>6546461
>>6546462
>>6546465
>>6546466
>>6546483
Are ugly as sin, with weak, unrefined neotenous features like they go from tweens straight into menopause.

>>6550301
>This would very rarely be thought to be [male] at a glance

>>6543670
"Amor" (1877) by Simeon Solomon.

>>6550319
She's 100% clearly female and you'll never pass.

It's all in the upper lip.

>>6550752
There are plenty of males with more feminine faces than her. Dont be so neurotic.

This whole "passing" thing is also diseased. If everyone wasnt so neurotic about gender, everyone would be healthier.

>>6550301
You dont need to look like a man or woman to be androgynous, having mixed characteristics is also androgyny.

Abotu the unattractive people that were posted. It was clearly a person with mental issues posting, in order to bring, on purpose, ugly things to a beautiful thread.

>>6550752
With a male haircut? They'd easily be perceived as male, hair length and style sets context for a lot of faces.
A lot 'feminine men' are just young guys with long hair, very few true androgynous features as opposed to neoteny.

>>6550752
>>6550946

Both of you sound very mentally ill.

>>6550946
Even with "male coded" hair and clothes she still looks clearly female.

Anglo "gender studies" bs was a mistake.

Mummy-portrait of a woman. Roman Period, c. 57-70 AD. Hawara, el-Fayum, Egypt.

"Young Serbian Gypsy" (1872) by Charles Landelle.

"Portrait of a Young Man" (circa 1850-1875) by Pierre-Paul Prud'hon.

>>6550778
Don't forget the eye to head ratio. Women almost always appear to larger eyes because they have smaller heads overall.

>>6528969
Hide from X-Japan

I love how the purpose of this thread almost instantly transformed from "share useful artistic resources" to "post images of people you don't like"

>>6528969
>man that looks like a woman
>androgynous

>>6555169
In terms of on topic content to worthwhile discussion to not-worthwhile discussion to completely off topic shitposting, I'd say we got a good balance as far as ic goes

>>6555735
Looks like a man to me.

>>6555169
True androgyny is uncanny and unattractive.
Fashionable "androgyny" is just super models and glam rock stars reminding us we still carry queen Victoria's nagging sex-negative ghost on our backs.

>>6555169
>>6550816
Most androgynous people aren't beautiful. Androgyny =/= attractiveness
>>6550752
Based

"Portrait of Stefano Nani" (1528) by Bernardino Licinio.

>>6555169
this the has more art than i expected but op should've narrowed the scope to beautiful androgynous art to cut out the bullshit clogging the thread.

>>6558137
*this thread

>>6558137
>op should've narrowed the scope to stylish cross-dressers and men with make-up
Agreed, tbqh

>>6558137
>>6558155
>Implying that would've done anything

Portrait of a young man (1962). Samburu cultural group. Kenya, near Maralal.

>>6529175
Yeah, often only the voice gives it away but it's a dead giveaway nonetheless.

>>6561212
>eyes are notably smaller in relation to head size in men
>men have longer, wider and squarer hands in relation to their body
>hips are entirely different, men's natural idling stand has them with feet pointing outwards, while women stand with feet parallel or pointing inward
YOU
WILL
NEVER
BE
A
WOMAN

Young boy George

>>6528969
Lol whenever bad artists fixate on "androgyny" it's always overwhelmingly effeminate. The female elements of the subjects vastly outweigh any male elements. No facial hair, larger musculature, etc. It's all very elegant and flowery. No understanding of gender expression, just horniness desu

>>6563038
Post good androgyny then.

Bumping for interest

>>6552158
Fayum-style mummy portrait of a youth with gold leaf background (ca. 130-150 AD). Antinoöpolis, modern Sheikh ʿIbade, Minya Governorate, Egypt.

tranny thread

>>6563038
That's because people want to see beautiful things and feminine features are inherently beautiful.

>>6566628
I'm sorry if I sound a little gay, but why is femininity beautiful? I view it as very pathetic

>>6569567
Femininity isn't beautiful, but beauty is thought to be feminine because we have this dumb distinction of calling male beauty "handsome" instead of just beauty.

>>6528969
gay pedophilia:the thread

"Portrait of a Young Man" (c. 1470) by Antonello da Messina.

>>6570408
Nah, not really. At most you could argue that it's about gay ephebophilia.

>>6570408
Here, we see an IC user, coming to terms with the fact real people don't look like anime girls

>>6577137
Anime girls are caricatures of pretty Slavic teens.
No shit there's none of that in the genetic deformity thread.

>>6577420
These are some really beautiful genetic deformities.