/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6489457
for those too retarded to read words this basically means if your only motivation to learn art is to "get" something you'll never get it

>>6489457
>Intrinsic extrinsic
Bullshit illegitimate distinction

>>6489495
Pretty much
I have talks with my psychology cousin all the time, he tells me the field of barely a science and its mostly made up shit

I'm curious how many people on here started drawing simply for a financial goal or out of desire for e-cred. I started drawing because it was one of the few things that seemed out of my reach, and the ability to create what I wanted to seemed (and still seems) like magic to me, to the point that I enjoy it more than any other form of entertainment.

>>6489502
a lot

>>6489495
how will you cope with being wrong?

>>6489502
Thanks anon. I’ve been getting all bent out of shape about likes and followers and shit lately and it’s been depressing me. This reminded me of why I got into drawing in the first place.

I don’t got a lot of control in my life, but the blank page is absolute freedom and escapism. Sometimes I forget that, and it becomes about something else, something weaker - like ecred, fame or money.

>today I will draw
>every cell in my body hates the idea of drawing
>stare at a wall for 6 hours instead
must be nice to have motivation to live

>>6489502
I started drawing just because an artist I followed made an indie game back in 2010 with Game Maker. I played it, thought it was fun, then decided I want to make my own characters with my own specific fetish with RPGMaker. Fast forwards 8 years later I got my first comm. And now I made decent enough for me to have more than enough savings for my daily living. I still havent made that game that I wanted but I am much, much able to make them if I could find the time to do so.

>>6489548
Every day you put it off is just another day further away from reaching your goal.
>>6489522
I guess I could see it in third world countries where selling two-figure commissions constitutes livable wage, but in most other places, you'd be better off getting a minimum wage job than trying to make your living simply through online commissions, with the hope that one day you'll make consistent, decent money out of it.

>>6489555
you're such a normalfag that you assume i have goals when I said I had no motivation to draw or live. I appreciate that, I'll try to come up with a goal so i can draw.

>>6489457
I have both for years and draw constantly but I'm still bad

>>6489559
>nromalfag
I'm a 34 year old NEET wizard.

Logically, rationally set goals. Fuck "potential". if you know then you fucking know now get on with it.

>>6489548
Why do you do a hobby you hate? Seriously why don't you spend your free time doing an activity that you actually like?

Also OP is lying. It's not about motivation it's about doing it anyway regardless of motivation. You go to your job everyday because you are dedicated not because you are motivated to do it.

>>6489457
What are the source studies for these?

>>6489457
Yep, psych 101. Of course learning to draw benefits from intrinsic motivation. You typically have to draw for years without recognition or financial reward. Kim Jung Gi drew against his parents wishes, and then drew for years in the army before he got his first job.
It's a no brainer. But it's hard to rewire someone psychologically. Changing someone who is solely motivated by fame and money is like telling someone madly in love to be attracted to someone else. But anyone who is extrinsically motivated will have a VERY hard time in art, you gotta love the process.

>>6489457
>Have intrinsic motivation
>Don't have extrinsic motivation
So that's why I want to quit

>>6489457
Long meaningless words demotivate me

>>6490218
psychology is pretty developed its not just bs, it's all in you

>>6489548
drawing isn't for you. however the idea of drawing is. just replace the drawing part (retard)

>>6489523
Someone making up an idea does not mean it really holds as a meaningful distinction. Like all these things, they're cute ideas and fun for people to throw around as an identity or pretend personality trait. e.g. introvert and extrovert. But they don't mean anything in the sense that they are proven and functional differences. So they should not infest our thought and delude us about others and ourselves.

For starters, something may be largely motivated by outcome, namely money, extrinsic, yet be completely characteristic of intrinsic as far as anyone including the person in question can tell. So to insist upon this the ""scientist"" will then say the concept must be correct, the observations must be incomplete. Saying it's just hidden. This is not how science works and that last bit is particularly nefarious.

It is obvious that people do things for outcome. Most people do not like working or cleaning but they still do it. There is no meaning and legitimacy to make distinct types of motivations from this and every reason not to because motivations are complicated and forcing a categorisation leads to errors or invents conceptual problems.

>>6489917
>But it's hard to rewire someone psychologically
Yes. And no. It's somewhat erroneous to say. First, because it doesn't take into account compounding effect over time. If someone manages to change a bit, the easy part, then eventually that easy part becomes the new baseline. The springboard for the next (now) easy part. Over enough time, it isn't that rare to see people have real change. The people who do successfully make the biggest change do so, usually accompanying(read caused by) a change in philosophy. Which people don't tend to even look at until their philosophy happens to crater them. The cognitive recognition that something better does exist, and can be had is truly a force of nature in separating those that will and those that won't. Reason is will- and/or lack thereof.

>>6490495
Imo, psychology isn't respected because it doesn't go far enough in calling a spade a spade- good things good, bad things bad, and dangers dangerous. In short, because it doesn't use truthful/accurate enough language, in an effort to be permissive and clinical.

>>6490540
Holy shit an actual fully fleshed out response. But I somewhat agree. It's probably a good idea to not let a concept like this influence you because it's vague and can be interpreted differently. I'd take everything with a grain of salt. ESPECIALLY on 4chan lmao.

>>6490540
Not that anon, but there are 100% real functional differences in motivations, and every legitimacy on the personal level to work through them. No, not by means of a popsci quiz on 4chan, but actual introspection, for which terms like these are a tool, not a rule.
Errors and conceptual problems came first by the way, or there wouldn't be any reason for seeking understanding to begin with, would there?

>>6489497
>>6489495
>>6489457
Yeah basically
>intrinsic is when you want to do something because you want to do it
>extrinsic is when there is a reason you want to do something
Makes no sense. Intrinsic motivation doesn't exist you just don't really know the underlying reason for the motivation.

>>6490584
>intrinsic
performing action because you want to and you enjoy it
>extrinsic
performing action because you want something out of it

it's pretty simple idk about the other posts

>>6490582
the bible is a tool for worshipping jesus too, that doesn't mean anything
there are 100% real functional differences in pokemon cards, but you are still a faggot even if you catch 'em all
if the limit of your intellect is to collect an esoteric array of buzzfeed tier "perspectives" on and deconstructions of reality, like pokemon cards, to shuffle into your proverbial deck and play as you draw them, that some 23 year old cunt who sucked cock for a research intership dreamt up with while smoking pot she didn't have to pay for, then you should just start smoking meth, what the fuck is the point of you at the end of the day? what is the point of ceaselessly jumping onto every prescription of reality that some authoritative expert dumps into your trough? what does that make you?

>>6490617

>>6490540
>>6490570
i regret humoring you, mouth breathing retarded faggot. cope harder

>>6490617
That's quite a mouthful there. I'm going to assume you're asking what's the point of trying to conceptualize the mechanics of thought. It's the same question as "What's the point in trying to reach above yourself?" - in any area. What's the point in trying to understand the internal combustion engine, or integrated circuits? Or plumbing or cooking? Funny you mention the Bible, that little gem has had its influence on the human mind for a good 2000 year run. Understanding why should stop at "it's a mystery" then I suppose by your logic? Understanding a system gives you problem solving ability, and problem avoiding ability. It allows you to help people, possibly including onesself -and that's all I need.
The language used will always require being tweaked for perfection, to the depth of our hard cognitive limits. Lastly, no true introspection should rely on any authority, or the status whatsoever of someone offering a given mechanic. Only whether that gear fits in the engine and appears to function.
Good day feisty anon. Lol

Making it is the synthesis.
Don't shit on people who want things and are able to work towards them for wanting them wrong or else you'll doom yourself to passion (meaning suffering).

>>6491647
I don't shit on people, period. If the difference is less suffering and more happiness, I don't owe it to anyone else to say what I see. I owe it to myself. If that seems like suffering to you, there's nothing more to be said. Because that is life itself, fren.

just draw

>>6491675
>just draw
This advice implies intrinsic enjoyment. To just draw it helps to enjoy drawing.

>>6491682
Kek, fucking intrisiclets when will they learn

>>6491647
>Making it is the synthesis.
It is. Financial success and recognition are a foundation to take art to the next level. But there's a road to get there.
>Don't shit on people who want things
Nah, it's not a value judgment. Just if those things include a six figure income and societal approval there are quicker and easier ways to get there than art.

>>6490584
It’s not that complex
Art wise
>intrinsic
I have emotions or stories I want to convey to an audience. The motivation is based on my desire to express myself.
>extrinsic
I want a positive reinforcement or money in exchange for my art. Getting awards or recognition from either lots of people or a governmental body of art determining im of certain skill.

The two don’t need to be 100% exclusive and you can have a bit of both.
But the desire to tell a story comes because you have a creative mind that wants to tell a story. But it’s also human nature to want to have an audience for that story and to have it recognized.
However some people are motivated enough intrinsically to want to draw their stories regardless of the audience. And some people will only move for the sake of external factors.

People with ONLY extrinsic motivations will get burned out because there’s no underlying internal factors. It’s why so many programmers quit after a decade or so, money is a great motivator but only for so long.

>>6491720
>People with ONLY extrinsic motivations will get burned out because there’s no underlying internal factors. It’s why so many programmers quit after a decade or so, money is a great motivator but only for so long.
I don't know why it's so contentious here really, it's the traditional "suit" office job that's about nothing but status and money. Suits have always been known as intolerably boring, dry, uncreative, fun-vampires.
I mean suit yourself if you're into that(kek). I don't know why you'd bother with art tho

>>6491743
The contention comes when people pretend any and all forms of extrinsic motivators are "bad" and that you should only have intrinsic ones.

Everyone wants recognition for their work regardless of how intrinsic the initial motivation is. Drawing and image you want to draw is fun and satisfying, but when not a single other person finds it interesting or funny its still disappointing because you did work hard on it and nobody gives a single shit or even relates to what you wanted to draw.

>>6491750
You're giving reasons why extrinsic motivators are "bad" anon. As in why intrinsic reasons are better as motivators. But I'm also autistic as hell, I'm 99.9999% self propelled. So take it with a grain of salt, but why would I personally add a lesser motivator if I didn't have to? Why should I not see the possible dearth of say attention, or monetary success as absolute drawbacks from being motivated by them? On top of that the danger of losing sight of the original passion as my focus shifts from the original 'thing' to now numbers. And worse when the original thing is now capsized by lesser means to get said ends. They're quantifiably lesser as motivators.
To clarify, I don't think you should be isolated either, but money and popularity? It's kind of like, yeah, ok... so is there anything else or... ?
You follow?

>>6491770
No, you’re just retarded. And Pyw

>>6491770
To add to this, many times it doesn't even really appear to be an actual dearth, but a perceived one. Ego will always fail you eventually. And, someone particularly mischievous can lead you around by it if they so desire too.
Again if none of that seems to be a problem to you, go ahead, I'd cheer you on anyway. But I'd have to at least tell you I think it's probably best to just focus on the pleasantries.

>>6491780
Awe yeah, right on time!

>>6489457
It's so rare to see a thread here with nothing but large bodies of text. What the fuck happened here...

>>6489457
I hate this trend of showing the definition of some word, i've seen it in presentations and stuff. It makes me think of zoomers feeling deep because they found out some "truth" that some "authority" has established, instead of thinking for themselves.