/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6438452
Try again

>>6438485
i did try again. but i dont know how to know if im right or not, i can draw a not curved slope eye, but obviously i want to draw eyes of all shapes and sizes.

don't draw the corner of the eye so prominently

also your character is crosseyed

also fix the mouth or nose placement

Just eyeball it

Fuck Anime, I hope AI replaces all Animefaggots just how they replaced and killed cartoons.

>>6438452
like this duh

>>6438608
what the fuck

>>6438452
That just the same shape as the other one just mirrored and squished on the X axis. You can do that with the transformation tool anon.

>>6438452
>how the fuck can i draw an eye at this angle
try looking at a few pictures of people's faces from that angle

honestly i think your eye looks okay, since anime style is way less strict when it comes to drawing anything in general.
this is my version, hope it helps

>>6438889
thanks anon
>>6438733
how? sorry but im not sure how i can do it with that without it looking off.

>>6438540
Idk if your post is a meme or not, but the creator of Amphibia (girl on the bottom right corner), Matt Braly, is Asian not White. So the "meme" doesn't even work.

>>6438452
It's because you can't draw the eye properly at any angle. You are using the other wrong eye as a reference and no matter how closely it matches you immediately realize it is wrong because it is not the symbol drawing you are used to.

>>6438452
the left eye, right eye, nose, mouth, and chin are all drawn in different perspectives. You need Loomis

>>6438452
Draw the surrounding structure of the eye.

>>6439199
>>6439280
i tried doing it but for a different character how does this look? i was really bored so i colored, im not good at coloring, so dont critque me on that only the face parts perspectives. i think i use loomis on guys better because the features are more sqare, or idk, i dont know how to say it.

>>6439288
i think it's fine since this character is turned more to the side and it's closer to a profile than the pic in op, so the eye would be barely visible

>>6439288
if you were going for a more anime-like style, this is how you might do it imo,it would mean a less pronounced browbone + less extreme nosebridge
but it's not necessary, i think you have your own style down
either way, it might make sense to move the ear up a bit?

>>6439342
im messing around with the colors really. also that pic u drew is good, but it makes the chracter look younger. im trying to make him look early 30s.but im definetly saving this to learn from, thanks!

>>6438452

>>6439391
Soul

>>6438507
he can have the corner prominent it just has to reflect the curvature of the eyeball itself at that angle making it look slanty if it was slightly rounded it would work fine

>>6439578
i also noticed the nose was a big issue in the perspective so I moved it, added eyebrow and round corner of eye because at that angle the roundness over the eye would overlap the corner and the corner wouldn't be visible that's why it appeared flat.

>>6438452
refrence how other other anime and manga artists do it. Generally just imagine it as a sticker placed on a flat curved surface and draw it in perspective, this is not how eyes actually work obviously but that is how most people aproach drawing anime eyes and it looks good.

>>6438452
Cover it with the nose.
Eh? What do you mean she has no nose?

>>6440188
you would still see the eye at the angle in op, nose or no nose...

>>6438452
>>6438507
>>6438889
>>6439580
these all look identical

>>6440218
nobody here can draw, let alone draw anime

>>6438452

>>6438452
When you don't know how to draw something just copy how another artist does it. There is no shame in that.

>>6440188
irl the human body looks botched which is why you have to see how artists draw the human body

>>6438452
The eyes aren't a flat 2d texture slapped onto the face.
The eyes are round with volume and they kind of bulge out.
Look at pic related and how the eyeball you're having trouble with should be round and slightly stick out at that angle.
At that angle the eyeball covers the outer corner of the eye because it's 3d and not flat.
Just draw the eyes with 3d in mind. It's not that hard dummy.

>>6440425
>The eyes aren't a flat 2d texture slapped onto the face
anime eyes are, dunning-Kruger san!

>>6440425
Why do her cheeks look so gigantic? Its unironically pissing me off

>>6440433
yeah they're not as 3d as real eyes but they still don't draw them completely flat to convey depth.
pic related is anime but the eyeball still sticks out slightly covering up the outer corner of the eye.
Just don't be a retard and draw the same eye shape at every angle.

>>6440433
anime eyes are also 3d in good works and follow pretty much roughly the same logic as real human eyes, usually...

>>6440433
>>6440461
Another example. Look at the outer corner of the eyes where the eyelashes end.
Her right eyeball covers up that exact corner of the eye.
Why? Because eventhough it's anime, they still draw with 3d in mind!
Who would've thought cartoons still apply the rules of real life???

>>6440228
I just mean they all look like "symbols", not spheres

>>6440318
lmao

>>6440489
if anime eyes were spheres, they’d either jut out of the head further than the nose or literally be bigger than the skull
even “““3d””” anime eyes are surface structures that change angle to angle

>>6440282
this is the right answer

>>6440482
>>6440461
this is completely flat, get your eyes (HA) checked

>>6438452
benis :DDD

>>6440460
she has naturally high cheekbones, some peoples faces just look like that. also this is what the guys in your pic looked like when they were young. Sad isnt it.

>>6440460
Asian genes. Have you every seen an Asian from an other angle than the front? Particularly the more ethnic looking ones south and north of the generic East Asians have morbidly huge cheekbones.
Many Russians have them too, because their ancestors were raped by mongols.

For me it helps to draw the eyes as half glasses at first when blocking in. Like I'll draw the top-half of the rims, them the bridge of the 'glasses'.

It helps with eye placement and understanding the angle of the plane the eyes are sitting on I think.

>>6438452
>>6440461
apologies I'm not very good at explaining, but a lot of anime and highly stylized art is based in real anatomy, the end image generally uses minimal lines to imply the under-laying structure that I outlined, purple for the eyeball and eyelids. green for the general structure of the skull.

>>6441789
i also forgot to mention that the anime is general more simplified. the eyelid in the reference ryuko I used seems terminate before the eyelid. but if they were given a bit more time to add detail, there should be a bit of shadow after it to indicate the eyelid.

again, apologies. I struggle with words.

>>6441789
Trigger is an awful example to use, considering how heavily they distort their figures. Same with Gainax, and any primarly artist or character designer associated with either.
Don't get me wrong, their animators and character designers are great, but not exactly ideal for teaching accurate rendering of a 3D object or character.

>>6441827
I trying to explain the foundations in those styles. as anime in general is just a heavily distorted and stylized form of the basic planes and proportions that are present in the human form. and if one understands the foundations, one can simply apply those distortions to the foundations to achieve the wanted style.

>>6441863
No, you're not. Anime follows the basic principles of almost any other art style, but when you get into highly stylized stuff that distorts its figures and expressions so much that they can't be represented in three dimensions, it's not really useful for teaching basics.

>>6438452
Just draw a skinny triangle. That's literally what that looks like, then lightly erase a corner

>>6438452
take steve huston head drawing course

>>6441885
I still don't see how that pertains to the original figure i used. one of the basic principles is perspective, which is another way to say the knowledge of space and form, that of the three dimensions. the figure I used in the original reference is not as far into the abstract as to not follow this principle, which means the 3 dimensional principles i used to construct the face is valid as long as i apply the same distortions the original artist used.

as a 2nd example, I am now using the drawing of the original poster. and using the same principle forms that i used to construct ryuko, and applying the distortions of the original poster, I have constructed the rest of the eye to match their style.which should show that while the style may differ, they both use the same foundational human form.

>>6441927
>I still don't see how that pertains to the original figure i used.
Well, I don't feel like arguing too much, so I'll keep it brief. Where is underside of Ryuko's chin in your picture?

As for your correction, it's not exactly ideal. While the original artist drew the eye at too steep an angle, you did the opposite, drawing the eye at basically the same angle as the closest eye.

>>6441935
the underside of the chin is right there? the original screen capture may not have enough resolution to have shown it, since it's reference lines are nearly parallel. so I've outlined it again so hopefully it's a bit more clear. it may not have been shaded, but the form was implied with the tip of the chin in the original reference. since you can't really use the mouth to reference as they're generally detached from any general anatomy.

regarding the correction, the original lines were a tab bigger and rougher than i wanted, and overemphasized certain parts of the eye. so I've gone over the drawing with a thinner pen so hopefully it's a bit more clear what the intentions were.

either way, it still doesn't change that what i was trying to explain was that while the style may be a distortion, principles of the original object can still be used as long as you apply the distortion afterwards. which means the inherent distortion of the reference used should only serve to emphasize the point.

>>6442030
>he underside of the chin is right there?
It's not. While I'm not autistic, I do have an autistic obsession with detail, and one of the things I always struggled with when learning to draw animu shit was figuring out how the chin was supposed to look when drawn from a lower angle, and how it connects to the neck/throat, because so many animu artists ignore it or just flat out don't know how to draw it. In the same vein, a lot of animu artists rely on side-mouth, despite the fact that it looks horrid, and serves as no shortcut if you know how to draw a proper mouth from the side. It's just a flaw that somehow turned into an excuse for style.
If you look at 3D models of anime characters, some Japs have made a career out of cheating a 2D look out of a 3D model, by making everything move independent of reality, which speaks volumes about how some anime styles just make no sense.
As an aside, don't take my criticism as a personal attack. It's nice to have a civil discussion in this shithole for once.

>>6442055
I always thought the way they do the underside of the chin is supposed to be something like this.

>>6442067
That's one animu shortcut, like side-mouth, but it's inherently wrong and something many artists do because they don't know any better or because they don't give a shit.
I still kinda half-cheat it by mixing it with a shadow.

>>6442055
do not worry anon. it was not taken personally. i hope my language was not taken as trying to offend. I've tried to illustrate my understanding on this subject. does this help?

points 3 and 5 on the jaw is tucked under point 1 and 4. and lines up in a way to make it look as one contiguous line.

>>6442055
You are autistic

>>6439054
>im not sure how i can do it with that without it looking off.
Flip the canvas nigga

>>6442088
Well, I think my point still stands. Based on how I see it, the two pictures are roughly seen from the same perspective, or at the very least, the anime face is seen from an angle where the lower part of the chin should still be seen.
Like I said, it's a common animu shortcut, but I don't think it should be applied when trying to teach someone to draw. This guy >>6442067 perfectly illustrates the average animu take on that perspective, and as you can see, the rightmost face is very similar to Ryuko's face in your picture.

>>6442102
No, you're just a repressed homo lashing out at the world. Don't worry. No one would judge you if you killed yourself.

>>6442088
There is no position possible where the viewer is looking at a head from a low perspective AND the lines of the chin converge to appear as a single line. Even at a very shallow angle those lines don't converge. The volume of the jaw is just not drawn correctly. Doesn't mean anime is bad or they're shit artists or anything, but it isn't reflective of reality.

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/colourcoded-head-muscle-chart-8c1bcc3685cd40b3bd6b42e0445522a5

Look at this if you want to see for yourself.

>>6442081
It bothers me sometimes too so I add a shadow underneath or use an extra line to subtly show it's the underside of the jaw in a fashion more similar to the third one to avoid pic rel.

>>6442139
I still kinda just cheat it most of the time. Here's an example of a poor implementation from my side, though it's not something people really give a shit about outside of threads like these.

>>6442123
apologies for the delayed response and the roughness of the sketch. I was busy playing darktide. I cannot seem to find the option to manipulate the camera in the given application to show what I'm writing of, thus I have included a smaller diagram on the left to illustrate a more extreme version of the effect that is to follow. one of the distortions i believe that has been used by the original artist is a 4 or 5 point perspective grid, with a large distance between their vanishing points, which would introduce a slight curve on reference points/lines of the piece. this in concert with the pose, angle,simplified anatomy of the piece (the little to no amount of chin fat), and the exaggerated proportions(the head having a much higher diameter than that of the neck). would give the character little to no visual of the underside of the chin. (the perspective of the body is a bit off but the point I'm trying to make should still be present)

>>6442230
What? You're literally drawing lines from a one point perspective, albeit bent lines, but still a one point perspective.

>>6442234
I did not include the other lines as to muddy the drawing, and the lines being bent should be the key point, as going from 3 point perspective to higher ones is the transition from euclidean to non-euclidean. straight lines to curved. here's a imaged example of a 5 point perceptive grid, in respect to the previous example, ryuko would be place in the left field mid, to left bottom of the perspective grid.

>>6442242
It's more that the chin line would be drawn from the second point perspective, like a box head.

>>6442249
the curve of the 5 point would merge the chin line with the jaw line, which when simplified would look as a slightly curved and contiguous line.

>>6442230
>>6442242
>>6442257
You're just retarded and don't know how to draw.

>>6442257
What?

>>6442258
please elaborate.

>>6442242
>>6442257
Look, if you were to insert the Ryuko head into your 5 point perspective, it would appear in the upper left part, and the lines from the center would line up with the chin line that you're so adamant about not including, and it would basically boil down to a two point perspective.

>>6442266
what is this chin line you're referring to?

>>6442260
Look at the images you have posted in this thread. You don't know how to draw and you don't know what you're talking about.

>>6442269
The one that you drew as a line between point 4 and 5 above.

>>6442273
that line's part of the jaw my dude. the chin is located between 1 and 4

>>6442275
No, it's not. It's the soft part that goes from the underside of your chin to your throat, that also connects to your jaw on both sides. I don't know the actual name for it.
It makes up a triangle of sorts, and it's what this whole debate is about.

>>6442278
you're talking about the fat and curve in muscles that's located between the neck and the jaw bone right? if so, it wasn't included as the jaw in this style is too angled and extended,to show any noticeable droop with the simplified anatomy that is kill la kill. the line would be reduced to a slight curve where the neck meets the jaw. which i believe you can see in the original reference itself. If it's not the things I've circled in the diagram, please label what you're talking about

>>6442293
It's literally part of her character design, and makes a 90 degree angle with her face.

>>6442293
Anyway, it's 9am and I'm going to bed. The original point was that highly stylized animu shit shouldn't be used as reference when trying to learn how to draw an accurate 3D representation of something, and both Trigger and Gainax artists tend to rely on heavy exaggeration that is not ideal for learning.

>>6441927
>>6442030
>>6441789
you completely cheated the eyeball positioning to reconcile what you’re seeing with what you believe you’re seeing and you have zero awareness of surface cross sectioning
if you rotated the structure you drew, the eyelids wouldn’t even be covering the eyeballs

>>6442067

>>6438452
I also need help drawing the other eye, I drew the right eye but no matter what i do I can't draw a good looking left eye, it always looks off

>>6442328
you fucked up everything from the ground up

>>6442334
oh, well I'm still very inexperienced, can you help me correct my mistakes please?

>>6438452
Anime isn't supposed to work in 3d form.

>>6442335
no, go to /beg/, you have literally no clue what you’re doing

>>6442343
OK then

>>6442309
>>6442314
that's when she's tilting her head up and back, it's where the droop and Adam's apple would be most visible, and there's still a less than a 90 degree angle between the neck and jaw in the example you've provided. when, if you actually looked at the character design with multiple angles, there is a noticeable slant and little to no droop present in the design in a normal front facing pose.

secondarily, the neck line which you refer to is formed through the positioning of the neck, relative size of the neck to skull skull, angle of the jaw, and amount of muscle and fat that is present. which means that it is variable to the style and anatomy that the person dictates.

tertiarily, I disagree, styles that are highly exaggerated but are derived from the same basic principles found in drawing more realistic art, should be used in conjunction with the more realistic samples. as the realistic samples would teach the anatomy of what is present, and the exaggerated art would teach what the anatomy, when distorted, would look like, allowing for one to understand the underlying principles that are present in a piece.

anyways, pleasant dreams my dude. i should probably head to bed myself, there's people already wrongly interpreting the anatomy and trying to argue with me.

again, all the best.

>>6442328
many people do this kind of thing, but make sure that the mouth is on the center line of your face (unless your character is pulling that kind of expression, of course) the mouth is generally not directly under the nose.
the eyes should follow mostly a straight line. make construction lines from your first good eye if you don't know where to place the second one.

>>6442346
nigger, are you seriously posting that image as an argument for anime three dimensionality?

>>6442351
here's what i mean with the mouth and the construction line for the eyes. hope that helps?

>>6442353
>are you seriously posting that image as an argument
i think on here you can easily check which post my answer is directed to
incidentally, i've always struggled with this kind of angle and paid attention to it irl, and it feels like this "underside of the chin" situation actually rarely occurs in the first place, even at pretty extreme angles in my experience.
even in this photo it's pretty easy to see how you'd draw it in an anime kind of way and where the line of the jaw is...

incidentally, i've always struggled with this kind of angle and paid attention to it irl, and it feels like this "underside of the chin" situation actually rarely occurs in the first place, even at pretty extreme angles in my experience.
even in this photo it's pretty easy to see how you'd draw it in an anime kind of way and where the line of the jaw is...

here's an anime-style illustration as an example

...and here's a doll with anime proportions.
since it exists in 3d, whatever is happening under the chin can't exactly break physics, i think.
just in general, since there's a ton of anime figurines, the shapes do pretty much exist in 3d.

>>6442402
>>6442409
>>6442417
are you genuinely retarded or what

>>6442519
what do you mean?

>>6438452

This helped me a lot but draw the actual eyeball (circle) first and then draw the eyelids over it. It might help the perspective make more sense to you.

It seems obvious but I had been estimating it for a long time and drawing the eye first is actually way easier, especially on awkward angles.

>>6442749
virtually nobody draws the actual eyeball and you probably don’t either
eyeballs are really, really fucking small relative to visible eye structures, which in combination with the convex iris taking up so much of the frontal plane leads to the extreme dynamism of the eye
in contrast, anime eyeballs, if approached as such, would be absolutely massive relative to the visible eye, to the point that they would be clipping each other and the skull in order to achieve the relative flatness of the visible structure
what 90% of people, and all the examples posted itt, do is draw a circle roughly lining up to one eyelid in whatever perspective and considering that an eyeball, when in reality they’re drawing a simplified ocular cavity and drawing the eyelid along one edge and ad libbing the other, which is why the perspective makes no sense and why it looks so flat and symbol drawn despite supposedly being constructed, it’s just marking off where to curve the eyelid on the frontal plane of the face with extra steps

which is fine, because the typical anime eye is not spherical and doesn’t condone an actual eyeball, it’s a flattened stylisation of the surface structure of the eye
yes, there’s a degree of 3d structure to it, and yes there’s a degree of anatomical foundation to it, but it’s a flattened surface structure
people are told to learn about real eyes so they can manipulate that understanding of the surface structure of the eye into an anime stylisation of it, but retards hear this and think it means they’re to be approached the same way

I can't draw anything in this angle.

>>6442816
autism

>>6440468
>anime eyes are also 3d in good works
But that shit looks terrible.
>Pic rel. That's how that character would look front facing.

>>6442409
I hate that fucking baboon muzzle.

>>6438452
i eat my own shit

>>6438524
kek

>>6438540
100% agree. All the autismo fgts who only started drawing so they could make gay nartuto fanfics deserve to be replaced as they offer nothing but repetive character sheets and haram 2d coomer shit.

>>6443652
no offense man but judging from your drawing it's just you not getting faces, eyes and proportions. what you drew looks nothing like the character.

>>6443797
It isn't supposed to represent the same exact character, just her misaligned righ eye.

>>6442816

I didn't say draw it every time. Nobody does that.

But if you're struggling with the angle, then drawing the eye first will help. Also, it doesn't matter if it's "anime" eyes or not. You just adapt the size and shape for the eye that you're drawing.

>>6438452

anybody post this one?

>>6438452
draw some ellipses

>>6445012
if you “adapt the shape”, you are not drawing the eyeball

>>6445041
>that filename
>from a beglet who draws an upside down eiffel tower for the nose under a brow ridge that makes ron perlman look like a cute girl by comparison
Learn to draw.

>>6438452
https://youtu.be/UvjAy5PZ_wM?t=3022

>>6438452
Draw boxes nigga, DRAW BOXES

>>6444000
and what i was saying is that at your skill level, you have no business trying to intuit things like that when you can barely draw faces at all.
your drawing only makes sense if you assume the eyes are in the same plane as the nosebridge, but that's obviously not true. in reality eyes are a lot deeper set into the skull than the nose, and so the right eye looks to be "closer" to the nose to you because you don't understand that.
it basically just shows that anyone complaining about 3d in this thread has no idea about the planes of the face themselves.

>>6443659
million pity

>>6440433
cant tell if bait or just retarded

>>6438452
That kind of anime eyes are basically symbol drawings. They're almost flat. Try thinking about them as if they were concave instead of spherical.

>>6451927
what artist made this doll?

>>6441722
Seggs

better question is what's wrong with her left eye

>>6438452
Both eyes look like shit

You'll notice more than a few anime artists project the shape of a form, rather than construct it. They draw the whole face like it's fucking projected on a flat plane, and it's making me racist.

>>6455613
Asian faces are flat, what are you getting upset over?

>>6445046
What happened to this guy?

>>6438889
In that angle, you don't draw full eyes, it indicate the nose hide a part of eye from your view. I. This case OP's actually better, what is wrong is the position of the nose.

>>6455832
Because they almost always draw European women?