/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

AI is smashing the glass ceiling!

>>6422404
People respect hard work, dedication, and skill. That’s why nobody cares about AI promoters

>>6422404
>Stop gatekeeping art

>>6422404
>Stop gatekeeping art
I swear these are AI talking. It's always the same argument.

>>6422404
>Why shouldn't something of value be hard to create

>>6422525
>why don't people value me being a lazy???

>>6422525
>>6422536
The smart thing to do, with things that are hard to execute, is to look for ways to reduce the difficulty, that's how humanity has progressed. If art being hard to master is a good thing, why don't we artificially make other things in life harder too?

Ack...

>>6422539
No they are valued because they are hard to make. If they become easy to make they are no longer valued. Handknit sweaters are much more impressive than machine knit just on virtue that it was more difficult. Handdrawn pictures are more valuable than a printed picture as well for the same reason.

It's not an argument of it being good. It's great that we can print of pictures but nobody gives a flying fuck that you pressed a button to print a photo of an owl as opposed to drawing the owl.

>>6422548
Taking the devil's advocate.
Let's suppose that it was one day revealed that One Piece was drawn and written by by AI and Oda is just a robot.
It would still be my favorite manga of all time.

>>6422552
This is kinda what I am getting at here though the "artist" in that scenario has become irrelevant. It's why nobody will ever give a shit about AI prompters. People can like an AI piece but they will never care about the person who generated it.

>>6422548
Value isn't universal, most people will not care about your handknit sweater if it is less efficient than a machine-made one.

>>6422555
Why'd you want that anyways? The only thing that matters is the money you can make off it, huge majority of "real" artists won't be remembered anyways, especially not hundreds of years down the line

>>6422562
Because making a name for yourself is the best way to get more money from people. Look at the difference between a real Pollock and one that some rando made. They take the same skill and look basically the same but one is worth money and the other isn't.

Also if everyone can prompt to make exactly what you want why would they give you money?

>>6422552
To take the devils advocate against you, if machines were capable of such things I doubt you would have even read One Piece as the market would have been flooded by hundreds of thousands of other manga of similar quality.

>>6422569
That's in my opinion the biggest deal about people posting AI artworks, in my opinion you shouldn't be saying it's AI-generated, and cherrypick the absolute best you can muster. That's the most reliable way to earn money with AI, trick people into believing it's "real"

>>6422539
People do - challenges. Limitations force creativity. Constraints make you think in different ways.
Look at all the gamejams like 7DRL challenge, look at all creativity in music when people are forced to translate a song to their instrument for solo playing, look at all the successful results of "Draw this in your style" or "Draw something in this person's style".

AI art will just force artists to move in even further retarded directions like the invention of photography did. I would expect a new genre of art to emerge that AI can't replicate correctly or well, if that's possible but since the AI field is having its own exponential development I guess all that leaves is people to guide it, especially since AI videos are the next big thing. Still pictures are an outdated medium, AI generated or not.

>>6422573
Well the biggest challenge for AI prompters would then to be making themselves effectively stand out from the crowd in any significant way. Even if they don't admit to being AI the fact that they are making exactly what the AI can make will mean their work just gets drowned out by thousands of near identical works.

>>6422404
>"Art has been devalued so much"
>mfw people are charging 300-500$ for comms at the 'decent' end of things

The only perma/beg/ in the image is Cherub, Unlocked doesn't even post art.

>>6422581
>Unlocked doesn't even post art.
Filtered from the start

>>6422580
That's again true, and it hurts me to see people not realize the potential of style embeddings/hypernetworks, as they allow you to adjust the style of the generated artwork, but people are too lazy to just train own one, and prefer to post the lazy generic NovelAI style generations

>>6422573
Ai artworks are obvious to the trained eye.

The catch, a full paintover is a legit way of appropriating generated imagery.

The problem, anyone with the skill to do a full paintover is not interested in leaving the creative descisions and process to the ai, because using ai also devalues the work by itself.

It's basically a solution that doesn't work for a problem nobody had.

>>6422588
I seen people say that that you can easily tell, however I apply my own advice of only posting rarely on pixiv and using my own hypernetwork, and I don't apply the AI tag, and so far noone was able to tell. The extra thing I do at times is to run the image through img2img with "sketch, rough draft" and also attach that as like second image. So it's either people not caring or not noticing, maybe they'd start noticing if I tried monetizing it

>>6422404
AI user logic:
>Why should I do anything at all?
>Why can't I have everything I want immediately, effortlessly and and for free?
>Why should I learn or know anything if I can ask AI?

>>6422586
I haven't looked much into AI artists as I have no real interest in doing so but I haven't noticed a unique style (not based on an existing artist) that is able to be consistently replicated by only one certain prompter.

Until we get that I don't think prompters are able to get a name for themselves. But that similarly 'gatekeeps' for an entirely different reason.

I think we will see artists train these networks themselves with their own artwork/brand/style to make up an whole original hypernetwork that will be able to create uniquely branded pieces even faster.

>>6422615
Or maybe artists don't want to use ai or train it because it's pointless in the end?

I have no interest in ideas that can be generated by anyone with a prompt, and I have no interest in fooling people that these ideas are mine.

It may look appealing for non artists, but I don't want to larp as an artist, I want to be one without missing out the experience.

Which will mean posting my own shitty art and getting the praise I deserve with my own effort and getting fairly paid for commissions that are completely custom to the clients needs, instead of cutting corners and doing the same AI shit everyone else is doing.

>>6422625
I am not saying all artists will do this but I do think that some artists certainly will.

Also you may have missed some context in the discussion here. These ideas would not be able to be generated by anyone since they would be a privately trained dataset based upon your own work and style. I imagine these artists wouldn't release the images they train the AI on either to keep it that way.

In this scenario artists would still have the upper hand when it comes to AI generation as they can also create their own images to train their own databases. The non artists will be stuck with whatever is publicly available attempting to cobble together a unique style to make something that could give them a name.

>>6422615
People get blinded by the fact AI can produce very beautiful and detailed images, but they forget it's basically all AI's interpretation of your prompt, you can't fully control it.

The best styles I've seen so far were personalized model mixes that get a somewhat "new" style. Anyway, AI programs can't read your mind and you know, an image is worth more than a thousand words, only prompting will always be a terrible way to generate an image.

I guess that's tech bros logic, like, let's automate everything because it feels so high tech and cool!! What? You want to have control? But make pretty pictures is good enough, also, you can get surprised by things you never would have imagined when you prompted!! And then you can even say it's an expression of your creativity!

>>6422625
>ideas that can be generated by anyone with a prompt
Anon humans come up with ideas by synthesizing other things together

>>6422650
Yes the control of it is also significantly lacking so much so that in order to successfully commission or work with AI as it stands you basically need an artist to over paint. It's not at the moment incredibly useful for much but I do think we will gain more and more control as it gets more advanced.

That being said however as an artist I personally won't utilize AI as I see it as a massive crutch when you care about improving your skill level. I just think it's kinda neat to talk about.

>>6422404
These are the same people screaming at artists to get real jobs.

>>6422482
Always the same buzzwords and talking points, too. Like the "you can't stop progress" zinger and how a google images collage app is somehow equivalent to the invention of the camera or the automobile.

>>6422404
This is how I feel about lucid dreaming. Why the fuck should it be hard to be aware of dreams? Shit takes as many years as learning an actual useful skill does. Ridiculous. Only diff is that there’s actual tangible results from something like art as a skill so obviously that’s why it should be hard. It adds value to something existing.

>>6422404
AI art is like women call themselves gamer girls and demand game company to lower the difficult.

>>6422690
Every new tech is great! We should never even consider if there's a better way to use it, only neo-luddities think, real rational tech overlords just release every new tech publically.

Why can't we further develop and use bioweapons freely? It's ridiculous that they need to be studied in isolated, max security labs.

>>6422615
>unique style
Until somebody sees the images they generate gaining traction, and then either train their own network on those generated images and post the results, or freely release the model with the name of the AI user it is mimicking (and surely doing so even more accurately than the ones using images drawn by real artists). When that happens, I guarantee you the AIfag will start crying about "his" work being stolen.

>>6422707
>comparing generative AI to bioweapons

>>6422690
Nope you cannot stop progress and that is why the prompting will continue.

>>6422707
>comparing a weapon of war to an art tool.

>>6422712
I found one of my generated artworks reposted on danbooru. Did I cry? Not much aside of few tears, joking, it was a lot of tears

>>6422707
funny how you brought up weapons of mass destruction because AI tech is capable of just that. It's the very reason why I think there's little chance of it being developed much further.

>>6422404
Why should it be hard to be muscular? Why should people be forced to go to the gym? Stop gatekeeping fitness.

Why should it be hard to get my PHD? Why should people be forced to study? Stop gatekeeping degrees.

>>6422723
Well, reposting a single, unaltered image is not the same as somebody trying to create a knockoff sweatshop of your works.

>>6422712
Well yes but those generations would be in "X'-prompters" style. It probably would be written as such in the prompt. It still attributes this style to him which is making a name for yourself. Although that's where the positives kinda end.

I do agree that unlike the artist actually making it people will absolutely be able to copy this hypothetical AI prompter possibly to a near perfect degree unlike an artist. A massive problem that could only maybe counteracted by doing a lot to market yourself before the inevitable.

>>6422716
>>6422722
Based retards

>>6422726
you're telling me that if there was an easy way for people to be fit, you would be against that?

and a PHD is a qualification, being an "artist" isn't

>>6422712
They're already crying about just repost their shit on any art site there's literally nothing they can do about it because it's not copyrighted

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/09/darth-vaders-voice-emanated-from-war-torn-ukraine
Why did they get James Earl Jones to sign off on his voice being AI'd? Why didn't they just take his voice samples from things posted online and use those without asking him?

>>6422733
>easy way for people to be fit, you would be against that?
Yeah steroids, also based retard for missing the point.

>muh gatekeeping

are those retards aware they're raising the barrier to entry to mid /int/ at least ?
I don't know about the average customer but if for some reason I wanted this random (AI) pic of Cirno I just found on Pixiv I'd pay for a hundred spins of the AI wheel before I considered hiring myself.

>>6422481
If anything, it should be gatekept more. See what happened to the nips and pixiv when they start letting the floodgates open. Bunch of retards spamming CSAM and caused massive panic. Nothing good ever comes from lazy fucks who wants instant gratification.

>>6422758
>gatekept more
As an oldfag in a number of communities, including 4chan, I wholeheartedly agree. Nothing good comes from overexposure and total dilution.

>>6422749
I think it's more like shifting the barrier of entry. A ton of popular artists who make polished turds are truly /beg/ and it's only their rendering skills that hard carry them. There are styles and things that ai cannot replicate even with training, so it's possible normies change their tastes and finally reject the anime pinup that's so easily replicated now.

>>6422769
Will they ever get bored of Sakimichan-like artstyles?

I feel like normies only care about overly rendered, smooth art.

>>6422758
Why'd you work hard when you can work smart lmao. Getting a good-great result at minimum effort, while having less control than otherwise is still prefferable than 15 years of effort for bit more of control, and probably worse end result

>>6422781
The mindset of a tracer or photobasher is the same mindset as an AIfag. For obvious reasons.

>>6422779
Hasn't she already dropped in popularity?

And yeah they like that stuff now and have for a while, but historically styles change with the times.

>>6422769
Ai seems to copy shit out anime the most and the most consistent too. Truely shows how generic it is, which makes it extremely easy to replicate. Based ai for killing anime

>>6422783
Prove me otherwise though, why should I strive to master the process when I can skip the process itself, if I what I want is the final result?

>>6422785
No she hasn’t, she still makes millions from her artwork and sakimi clones are still coming out.

>>6422788
Sure, go right ahead. Rape, steal, plagiarise, defraud, all that matters is you reach your result.

>>6422781
Based. That's the actual mindset of someone who gets their projects finished.

>>6422781
I don't think dumpster diving for the least fucked up result for x amount of hours is working smart.

>>6422482
>I swear these are AI talking.

It is.

There are always at least two AI art threads up on /pol/ at all times, and it's always the same pro-AI posts every single time using the same phrases and verbiage. The proof in the pudding is that none of them have ever passed the ludicrously simple MSpaint AI test to determine if someone is a bot (e.g. "post an MSpaint picture of a pumpkin with the number '6' to the left of it, all using the pencil tool with a random ethnic slur typed into the bottom right corner of the picture"). Not a single pro-AI poster can pass the test.

>>6422805
I don't think I ever had to spend above 30 minutes to get what I wanted. It is still smarter than having to spend multiple years learning, and half a day to multiple days to draw the thing, even if you remove the learning part, it's simply faster than pure drawing too.

>>6422758
Speaking of Pixiv, "prompters" threw a shitfit when the site forced them to tag their work and allow users to globally filter it from all search results, which I thought was funny. People everywhere are getting sick of AI art very quickly.

>>6422552
>favorite manga of all time.
How? It's so awful

>>6422816
>just don't tag it as AI and then watch the "artists" throw a shitfit

>>6422812
>to get what I wanted
Is it really what you wanted? Or are you so creatively underdeveloped and dopamine addicted that you'll settle for something that looks "cool" on google images?