/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6390633
post a few examples?

>>6390662

>>6390633
Because these people literally "just draw". They don't care about composition, lineart, coloring or whatever the fuck, they just want to get a message across.

>>6390677
They don't even care about tools either.
Most of these are made in mspaint since their creators don't even consider art a hobby worth investing lots of money or resources into.

Their process is literally just :
1. idea
2. open mspaint
3.draw
4. post

thats it. Its quite fascinating to see what the mind of a non-artist produces sometimes

>>6390677
>>6390685
They also aren't afraid to trace or use stock photos as backgrounds, rather than try to rely on their skill to create everything from scratch.

The result may be technically unimpressive, but it still has lots of charm and sovl

The Chad Doodler vs the Virgin "Serious" Artist

>>6390633
> Why is it that art work created by normies/non-artists tends to have the most sovl?
> Examples are largely Pepe/Wojak
I hate it.

>>6390797
what else do you expect?

>>6390799
oc's, anything fucking else.

>>6390633
Alot of artists are caught up in the "idea" of being an artist so they focus on doing what the perceive they're supposed to do. And this mostly results in them mindlessly copying successful creators.

Normies will just try their best to figure a way to express the idea they want and that leads to innovation because they have nothing else to build off of.

>>6390820
Did you not get the part that its art made by normies that don't actually draw or create art?

>>6390799
Stick figured, crudely drawn faces and other such things that aren't regurgitation of two images.
Memes and inside jokes existed before the frog and sad man were a thing, so seeing "soul" be limited to 10+ year old edits while people fawn over them is unfortunate. It is anti-creativity.

>>6390833
While stick figures and crude doodles of faces are quite common to find in the notebooks or random scrap pieces of paper for normies, those don't really have "sovl"

The ones that do are created by actual artists, so they don't apply to this thread.

>>6390633
In a way, 'serious' artists cares more about the presentation than the idea itself. Hence why many ended up being essentially a photocopier but with ideas most people cant relate to.

>>6390633
It's endearing

Kind of like how it can be cute to watch an aspie make a genuine effort to behave normally, but seeing a normal person act like an idiot is annoying. Even though the outcome is the same.

>>6390834
>While stick figures and crude doodles of faces are quite common to find in the notebooks or random scrap pieces of paper for normies, those don't really have "sovl"

This is exactly my problem.
"Sovl" in this case is entirely limited to two memes, all ideas, feelings, emotions and information must be filtered through these two memes. How is this innovative? How is this really communicating anything? The symbols are used so often for such a wide array of things that they loose all meaning. Because those symbols must be used to gain attention, the ability for people to express becomes necessarily limited. The only way to bypass this is to make mutations, which are still limited because they're linked to the same symbols.

>>6390845
You're overthinking it.

>>6390633
because they like cute and comfi things.

This is the aesthetic I’ve been enamored by for the longest time and to this day I have difficulty pinning down how it’s achieved or what it’s even called. Yet normie non artists seemingly do it effortlessly.

I’m a good artist but all my shit is usually too clean, lines too well drawn, everything aligned too well. Formulaic. Art with soul is jagged and inconsistent, imperfect but perfect. It has this fleeting aesthetic appeal that seems to elude me.

I love “bad” art like this and unironically aspire to it even though my technical level is way above it. I know my taste is shit but it is what it is and beg stuff with soul is just cozy and oozes meaning. Meanwhile my stuff is typically overwrought and clinical, devoid of meaning.

>>6390856
Sometimes that's necessary. Humans are weird, and just winging it can backfire heavily.

>>6390877
not in this case

>>6390868
>i know my taste is shit
No, you're just starting to find it.
I could sort you out in six minutes.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O8cDbj8mLKg

Many artists end up creating for clout. Lots of trend chasing in many forms, even styles themselves. When you follow someone else's guidelines to the letter, you end up drawing as their 2nd set of hands, not your own.

Normie art has more "soul" because it's drawn for the sake of fun; they're not sitting there treating it like a science project and, in that, they're sometimes better artists than someone who's spent many years studying. You gotta learn to draw what you want and feel, not what you've been told to want, because art is ultimately a form of expression - if you are shallow when you draw, then shallow will be all you get. Also not using references, relying solely on imagination, is the best way to get raw creative expression, because you're then presenting YOUR inner ideas about what something is and should be rather than adhering to external rules.

Here's an experiment; draw something entirely from imagination, zero references, especially no tracing or photobashing. See what you can create just based on what's in your mind alone, and do not post it on any blog or social media. Create as if you were without internet, just alone with your tools and your thoughts; what would you make?

It's nice to go over to /i/ sometimes and see what people make there, because most people there are just having fun. Lots of raw creativity, even if the technical skill is lacking.

>>6390833

>>6390633
>Why is people who can't draw but still is motivated to tell something producing art with more soul than artists who are practizing technical aspects or drawing other people's bad ideas for money.
What a mystery.

>>6390868
try getting near blackout drunk when drawing

>>6390944
Yes, Exactly!

they're whole human beings, so anything they produce is naturally art. I'm not whole, I'm a broken husk that occasionally larps as a person. The things I draw are blights and tragedies.

>>6391068
You ok dude

>>6391068
relax

>>6391068
>I'm not whole,
No one is, maybe just less or more so. But you can be.

>wojak and pepe edits are soulful
Actually ngmi

>>6390633
Because you're an emotionally stunted manchild who treats art as a commodity meant to fire whatever is left of your fried neurons while you scroll through le wholesome memes and pornography on your twitter feed for hours on end.

>>6391120
Thanks for the bump kind stranger!

>>6391093
>t. Draws nothing but soulless studies and unfinished sketches in Clip Studio no one cares about

>>6391120
I legitimately hate artists because their ego is always unbelievably large. My asshole makes better art in the bowl than your pic.

>>6391120
That image is impressive from a technical aspect, but I feel nothing when I look at it. In fact, I'd be bold enough to calling it rather boring piece, not even trying to be contrarian.

Meanwhile this image was probably made by a teenager on twitter using only mspaint in about 10 minutes, and yet I feel a myriad of positive emotions just by simply looking at it

>>6391433
It can be said that it's just because you like Pepe the frog.
The other image doesn't appeal to you because it is showing a very different view of life, one that you are unfamiliar with, so while you can appreciate the technical ability, you can't relate to weavers doing their work.

But you can relate to a frog picture that you've seen thousands of times and you're familiar with, even if you don't know what it means are where it comes from. That isn't an argument for 'Soul', it's an argument for targeting an audience.

In short: Art appreciation is subjective.

>>6391073
I wrote that after spending a few hours struggling to draw something, it was a moment of weakness.

>>6391443

Partly the definition of sovl is that you can't really explain why a crude drawing of a frog petting a cat can captivate so many people. Its one of the reasons why more people would prefer the pepe over the italian sewing circle even when they are not familiar with the character

>>6390933
Ahhh I have this one saved too, pure soul.

>>6391458
> Partly the definition of sovl is that you can't really explain why a crude drawing of a frog petting a cat can captivate so many people.

I think it can be explained:
-Simplicity, so the image's message is easy to parse
-Kindliness, The characters in the image are treating each other well, they're at peace, which can resonate with the viewer.
-Ugliness, this is often denigrated, but this is a core part of the character's appeal. Them being ugly makes the more inclusive and relatable.
-Effortlessness, this image could have had hours worth of thought and work put in to it, but it doesn't seem that way. People love when things appear as if they took no work, even when it's obvious a lot of effort was applies.
-Being Relatable

These elements make the image in question effective. The other images in this thread with Helper as a subject has these elements as well. They're cutesy pictures for people who usually aren't keen on saccharine themes.

>>6391480
>Helper
sorry but i refuse to call him anything but pepe

>>6390633
You misunderstand what an artist is. It's not about how much you know or how great your skill is... art is simply the human soul poured onto a canvas. Anyone can do that. Anyone can be an artist as long as they have something to say, and most supposed "artists" don't.
It's all about the money, the fame, whatever.

>>6390669
not even joking, Its like modern art

>>6391490
>Anyone can be an artist as long as they have something to say, and most supposed "artists" don't. It's all about the money, the fame, whatever.

This is a lie.
You don't get a comfortable living by being an artist.
Most artists are no famous.
A good number of artists are under a mountain of debt because they perused their interest.
Artists are low and generally disrespected, but at the same time people are obsessed with their work.

You wouldn't understand this if you've never failed at being an artist.

>>6391433
Like I said a manchild. You're incapable of processing anything more emotionally complex than "le wholesome chungus does kitten a petterino".

>>6391342
What did you think everyone was going to suck your dick on the artist board for insulting artists and ranting arrogantly about a craft you're clueless about? Who's the one with the ego? I don't go to /g/ or /sci/ or /his/ and call them idiots and lecture them about topics I only have a cursory understanding of.

>>6391068
ur not whole; ur a hoe

>>6391649
I you are ignoring the fact that these images are made by people who don't really draw or consider themselves artists

They don't even do it as a hobby. Their entire perception and viewpoint is almost alien compared to a typical artist.

It's literally like someone deciding to play the piano for the first time in front of an audience with a very surface level understanding of music theory and making a nice little tune that gets stuck in everyones head.

The images that you post are made by master painters who have probably dedicated decades to the craft but still cant can't make anything with as much so l as these "man children memes" you smugly describe

>>6390868
I got thrown out of shitcord server once because I made some kid cry for saying it had this kind of charm. The mod was undoubtably a jew but I was honestly shocked people don't know bout this mood.

>>6391649
>I don't go to /g/ or /sci/ or /his/ and call them idiots and lecture them about topics I only have a cursory understanding of.
you unironically should. Intelligencia of any department or field are invariably the worst people involved. We only have the inverse attitude for art because buying paint used to be expensive.

>>6391996
you are suffering an awful case of emotional incontinency if apustaja memes cause you to melt so easily. cute doodles are not that deep and if you feel the need to continue arguing otherwise you need to get over your midwit self

>>6392008
It’s interesting you say that he cried because whenever I’ve seen this type of art and artist on instagram, they’re always the type that archived work they dislike and take it personally when someone says anything about anything they made.

I think they’re extremely over sensitive and because of this, they inject a lot of feels into their art. It’s pure, every imperfect jagged line dripping with feels. I can’t fathom that mindset desu because I mostly just love visual appeal and chase nice shapes and such but I think that type of artist is a whole nother kind of beast - sensitive to the core. Any hint of criticism cracks them wide open and they end up shutting everything down or blocking the person that said something.

Damned if they don’t make the most soulful work I’ve ever seen though. They’re a very rare and unique breed and I love discovering them, even though it doesn’t happen often.

>>6392022
where this from pic is?

>>6392022
His name is pepe.

>>6392155
No, that is apu apustaja. There is a difference.

>>6392062
nta, would also like to know
likely italian, late 16th to early 17th century (bolognese?) sacrifice of polyxena

Soul creeps in at the oddest moments.

>>6390633
"Non" artist:
"damn i really want to see this funny thing i love so much, ill put all my time and energy into making it a reality!"

/ic/ "artist":
"oh boy, time to sit in my concrete box all day and draw this torso i memorized and put an anime head on 69 times! i wonder why im so depressed :("

>>6392486
This is just bad...

Not even so bad it's good, just plain awful. And this was made by an actual artist, not some normie who doesn't draw and doodled something to create a happy accident.

Is this your art?

>>6390671
Wholesome as fuck, made me tear up a little since I sometimes do this too for no apparant reason yet always regret it

>>6392629
Actually, you're right.

The strips ARE "doodles". I did not have the luxury of drawing at home for most of the time, so I started carrying a sketchbook with me to various waiting rooms to pass the endless hours. I started with the vaguest idea of what the strip was about story-wise,and start randomly creating the first element of the strip,and thinking about what words will accompany it and where. I know all the flaws,but I tried to have an encapsulation of a moment in each strip,and so it gets crowded with text. And sometimes I succeed.

>>6392045
interesting, at least theres a reason for why they where acting like such a shithead.

>>6392629
Here is a strip from the only self contained story that I have as yet produced. It was my training exercise for the sort of comic book that I wanted to do,with all of the elements drawn separately and forged into panels in Photoshop. I adopted this strategy to compensate for my skill level,which had glimmers of timelessness that I needed to isolate,and recycle, like props and backgrounds. So if I were to attempt to create a comic book that comes out monthly, I would need to strategize my art with the obstacle of working 48 hours at night to support myself and trying to draw both quickly and competently. So I would draw background elements and reuse them wherever I could, especially forest stuff,and I would add to the library of Trees and Bushes and Rocks with what the panel demands. And I added stuff only Photoshop can do : filters of all sorts circa Version 5.5. For what I do with it,it suits me very well. I can assemble elements of a panel like animation cells and tweaking them in place. I call it 2 dimensional sculpture.

I admire Dave Sim and Gerhard's Cerebus the Aardvark ,and the idea of cranking out 20 pages of story with a Color cover. Or...maybe keep it black and white on purpose, but a one page spread with the logo incorporated into the work. For each issue.

I have seen comics that were literally oil paintings ,so what I was doing was my foray into the unknown. I tried this in color,and I went crosseyed trying to keep the colors consistent, so I am staying with BnW.

>>6393773
>The strips ARE "doodles"
Can you not read?
doodles made by non-artists but still have soul.
Your stuff just looks like ugly schizoprhenic/BPD nonsense
Are you having an episode of mania right now?

>>6390868
I don't think that's "bad" art. This discussion reminds me of Gunpei Yokoi, the engineer and game designer who created (among other things) the Game Boy for Nintendo. Yokoi's genius was in taking outdated hardware and using it in novel ways. He recognized early on that very simple, lo-fi graphics could be more endearing and relatable than ultra-realism, and used this understanding to great advantage.

>No matter how much CG approaches reality, it will never be able to overtake real visuals. There will always be an unsurpassable limit...
>Do these playworlds really need to be that photorealistic, I wonder? I actually consider it more of a minus if the graphics are too realistic. There’s a similar line of thinking in the entertainment world—using soft focus lenses when women are filmed, for instance. When that is done, each person can project their own conception of “beautiful” onto the woman being filmed, and everyone will see their own personal Venus.
>If things are too realistic, there’s no room for your imagination, and the reality of those faces you thought were beautiful will be revealed. Or to use another common expression, it’s actually more erotic when a woman leaves some skin covered. Even if a video game doesn’t have the power to display very complex graphics, I believe your imagination has the power to transform that perhaps-unrecognizable sprite called a “rocket” into an amazing, powerful, “real” rocket.
>Television has gone from black and white to color, and now that we’re seeing high-definition tv it’s almost too detailed. You get that problem I mentioned, of seeing wrinkles of beautiful faces. Since television is mainly a medium for information, I think it’s better for it to be more clear, but games don’t require that. I think the world of a game feels larger when you can use your own imagination.

>>6396222
Source for those quotes: https://shmuplations.com/yokoi/

Related to the above: Remember the old Tamagotchi "virtual pet" keychains? The creature was a few dozen pixels on an unlit, monochrome, dot matrix screen. In spite of these limitations (or because of them?), people felt an emotional connection with their imaginary pets.
If you draw two dots and a line, people will see a face and respond on a gut level. If you spend hours rendering a face from a photograph, people will likely see all the flaws and be put off by it, unless you're an absolute master.

>>6396194
No,just explaining the history behind all this. I had planned for a different kind of strip,but although I was capable of drawing the chunks of a panel in pencil while balancing the Bristol board on my lap,but I didn't have the time at my computer to use Photoshop to isolate the images,chopping away the extra white of a drawing and leaving it as a layer with clear transparency surrounding it. And that takes time that I no longer had. So,a story sprang up from a random drawing of a demon head in a bubble. This strip. Not meant for public consumption, but I liked how the head was coming along,so I decided to add another character, and thinking about how they would interact. What sort of character? A hybrid of two other characters, anthromorph races being normally incompatible for breeding.
"It doesn't stop them from trying ",to quote Cassandra. As the pen made images fade into view,I invented personality and reason for these things I create. I like to make single panel snapshots of "a story in progress",with enough visual cues to imply a whole plot from a single moment of the circumstance the characters find themselves in. I thought it as no more than that.

Then I did another.

And I did about 180 altogether, with some one shot pictures like I've explained, I only took it seriously 30 issues in,which meant that I took more time on the art beyond the bare bones storyboard strips that are deciding on the placement of props and characters, and I had 30 of those for the newspaper sized strip format that I originally planned for. I am thinking about returning to it,investing in a scanner and good paper.

Listen. I know that the strips are flawed. But it conveys a story. You read the words and ALL of the words,damn it,and look at the pictures and a story unfolds. The story is worth filming. Feel like criticism? Look at the source material for the movie the Bad Guys.

Anyway, this thread was about Soul.
My first example had a touch of it,if you were familiar with the characters. But flaws and all,a few thousand visitors a month liked it enough to keep coming back.

>>6397288
>>6397293
did i read all of this?
No I did not

>>6397359
I'll sum it up:

What I wanted to do I couldn't, and what amounts to the series of Doodles that I did instead are products of little forethought and no planning, composing the scene as the art compelled the plot which compelled the art in turn,and the results surprising myself in its creation. Although cluttered and primitive at times, a story is still being told and mysteries slowly unravel. That's what makes these pages of narrative chunks important. Every word has significance. Even Dilbert can have Soul.

>>6397288
> I like to make single panel snapshots of "a story in progress",with enough visual cues to imply a whole plot from a single moment of the circumstance the characters find themselves in.
That's a good way to get your creative thoughts flowing

>>6398411
Here is an example of one.

For people familiar with the characters, it can be imagined what sort of adventure this might lead into,the three of them exploring the in between place that is the realm of the eyes. Or something else coming out of it,a speck on the horizon getting closer and growing bigger,it's intent unconquerablely clear. Or maybe they run in,and then run the hell out. The reader decides, saving me work.

>>6398399
>>6398457
Let me clarify:
Didn't ask, don't care.

Your maniac ramblings are entirely off-topic but thanks for the bumps

>>6398701
based

>>6398701
crab moment

>>6398771
illiterate schizo moment

>>6398399
>products of little forethought and no planning
can you connect this to why no one wants to read or see your comics posted? no one cares what you think about your comics

>>6402927
Why do you think someone has to "not draw for 3 yrs" to be capable of appreciating SOUL

Genuine question. I draw everyday and still think the images ITT are quite sovlfull

>>6390674
what the fuck. That's hot

>>6402734
You Ain't the World.

>>6402927
well I personally started consuming art (illustrations, drawings, etc) as I started drawing when I was around ~17. I was a fundamental junkie for the most part of my art journey. I quit drawing 3-4 years after I started, but I never quite stopped consuming art. Now it's been a few years and I feel like I'm much more capable of appreciating art on higher level, not just being stuck on fundamentals and drawing mechanics in general

bumping with more sovl

>>6390633
unspoiled and untouched by self-doubt inflicted upon them by envious people who put others down so that they can feel superior.
i stopped drawing for a long time because as a preteen everyone i knew - family, friends, teachers and fellow students - said straight to my face how bad my art was or would laugh at it. final straw was a friend who laughed for 20 minutes straight at my shitty doodle even though looking back she wasn't much better.
now i'm an adult and decided you know what, i'll just suck but do it anyway. after two years i finally just broke 5k followers on the birdsite.
i still have a long way to go but every time i feel bad about my art i think about the shit i used to be enamored with on places like DA. really made me realize that little kid me would be over the fucking moon in delight over our art now.

i'm drawing for you, lil' me.

>>6402927
Shit meme. Reminds me of the retard normie shit that gets posted on the Hispanic side of Facebook.

>>6403888
wholesome pic and post, good luck anon

>>6390633
it's something to do with the composition of hand/finger muscles

>>6391433
based, >>6391120 has nice light but it's essentially a glorified oil photograph of something mundane.

>>6391433
Because apu is a character iterated on by thousands from the same community, making him almost as alive as you or me. He's a little retarded frog boy, and he's the collective outlet for unused fatherly emotion, and he's my son. Soul is literally just how much the author cared, and all of us care.

>>6390633
because soul come from life, experiencing the world and trying to project these experiences
Most career artists don't have these experiences to project because instead of cutting cacaos they sit at home drawing
Anime is possibly a more obvious example than memes and paintings
None of the old animators grew up watching anime- they had knowledge as mechanics or engineers, worked in factories, experienced rapid industrialization, childhood in rural villages without running water etc.
compare that to modern anime that is by people who grew up in nice clean apartments, watching anime all their life, who can only make stories from perspective of a shy guy who watches anime and play games all day.

another example is filmmaking - look at their early life (no, not THAT early life)
all the good ones had a "real job" where they would meet real people, learn who real machines work, learn how real people talk and so on.
Werner Herzog worked a in steel mill interacted with various sorts of people and most of his films are documentaries, Stanley Kubric was a reporter and travelled the world for like a decade before his filmmaking career started.
On the other hand - J.J.Abrams and Jes Whedon were from film making families who never worked outside of filmmaking and only know fake, fictional world.

>>6390669
Not even his design

>>6392155
Newfag go back.

This shit is the most bottom of the barrel, worthless garbage I've ever seen. What the fuck are you on about?

>>6405928
we know

The thing is, this shit was clearly made by someone who never, or rarely draws at all, but liked that page so much they wanted to redraw it thus creating something quite SOVLful

>>6406039
You just don't get it

>>6406065
It is not sovlful though unless he himself creates it, retard. I am not equating that guy with people that actually know how to draw and paint. Van Gogh for an instance had poor fundies and he actually wasn't even a proper artist but things he painted had sovl.

>>6406070
>It is not sovlful though unless he himself creates it, retard
where are you getting this from

who told you that? Quite making things up fag

>>6406070
>am not equating that guy with people that actually know how to draw and paint
thats the point of this thread you gay bastard

>>6406072
>>6406074
You are a faggot retard. No that is exactly the point because sovl comes from within, you low IQ troglodyte. Once you copy someone else's work whether you have a grasp of fundies or not you basically declare your lack of soul with it. Sovlful work is a lot of being unique and appealing.

>>6406079
Didnt read

>>6406079
Sovlful work is all about being unique and appealing.*
I was so mad i fucked it up.

>>6406080
Yeah i don't care if you read or not. You are a fucking low life crab that doesn't even deserve to share the same oxygen with the rest of us. Simply kys and save us from the trouble of dealing with a cretin like you.

@6406085
did not read

Most artists are too worried about the technique to make actual art, they'more draftsmen/illustrators than actual artists.