/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6288044
You don't need Goldfinger for anime girl. It's the most advanced (as in, the one that goes the most in-depth) artistic anatomy textbook out there.

Why didn't you pick a "how to draw manga" book if that's what you wanna do? If I were you, I'd do that, copy it *cover to cover*, and then go through another book.

What you really need is discipline, dedication and hard work. Multiple books likely will be a distraction. Pick *one* and work it thoroughly.

Can't stress that enough. Buying a copy of the book is an even better option.

You only need Vilppu's drawing manual, Bridgman's book (or morpho), and a big collection of artists you're interested in, to do master copies. Get anime still frames and copy them.

4 out of those 6 are completely superfluous, and none of them teach you anything about anime, are you retarded?

>>6288044
Yeah. You need to draw.

>>6288044
How is Drawing Lessons by Hale. I just ordered a used copy because I need to pause Vil to do master studies and Vandruff thinks highly of it.

>>6288044
You need Scott Robertson's book.

>>6288044
Are there actually any translated books for drawing anime?

>>6288044
that's way too much
you just need to know basic perspective and the simplest mannequin
then just copy and analyze artists you like

>>6288044
1. Learn perspective somewhere
2. Watch Proko
3. Study anime artists you like once you know anatomy and copy their stylization/shorthand

There, now you know everything you need and you didn't need to read those dry as fuck books. Fucking hell, Bridgman and Loomis are nearly a hundred years old and there's better, easier ways to learn this shit.

>Inb4 "Proko sucks because of x"
Fuck you, Proko can draw and he can teach it to you while keeping things fun. Name one worthwhile thing these books have over him.

>>6288367
You’ve never read his book. Scott Robertson literally won’t teach you to draw the box figures on the right. (For that you’ll need Vilppu)

>>6289681
literally the worst gesture video on the net
https://youtu.be/74HR59yFZ7Y

>>6289724
What's a good one?

>>6289735
vilppu/hampton

>>6289724
>>6289735
>>6289740
Nicolaides

>>6289748
Absolutely not.

>>6289740
this

>>6288548
nah dude we're shit outta luck, there isn't a single translated book in the entire world on how to draw anime art
they're all in japanese
it's kinda crazy how anime is so wildly popular internationally but nobody has ever thought of translating a how to draw anime book
you dumb fucking retard of course there are translated books what even is this retarded question

>>6289699
Scott Robertson teaches the perspective, when you know it, you can draw anything, the box figures, the box cats, the box dogs and so on.

>>6289913
Difference between Scott Robertson and Drawabox?
How many months does Scott take?

>>6288044
why do people keep shilling fun with a pencil when it's fucking shit?
literally any other loomis book is better than FWAP

>>6288140
>drawing lessons by hale
It’s very good and probably scales with iq, as in; if you have a high iq then you’ll get a lot out of it. It gives you a foundation of understanding of the theory of skills rather than a foundation of the skills themselves. You’ll learn the reason and theory behind the fundamentals. This functions as a foundation for the classic ‘fundies’, so when you go on to learn the fundies after reading this, they’ll be even stronger.
iirc every one of the drawings shown in this book is a type of sketch: Sketches that display pure fundamentals, so you can see what exactly makes them look ‘good’ without being dazzled by all the flowery polish. the sketches are rough gold, rather than a ‘polished turd’.
It would compliment something like a bargue study which is more about practicing the ‘polish’ and training your eye to see details.

>>6288044
art isn't a skill you can just "game" to win
its a journey with daily practice

>>6288044
Add how to render by scott robertson and this list would be complete

>>6289916
1st of all, they aren't the same and don't intend to teach the same information even though there is overlap.
2nd, stop thinking learning as something that should take an x amount of time, you could finish dab in a day if you're willing to do so.
and 3rd. not all learning resources are built the same

draw box is built like homework, do this do that, and do the next thing. all somewhat guided practice with purpose but you might have to think around that
scott Robertson's books does have demonstrations but the book is more like a list of techniques that you should keep in mind when drawing in perspective. there isn't really, you do this once and now you know it. its a resource you're gonna want to come back to and try the demonstrations in your own ways in different views and perspectives

>>6289740
I don't get Vilppu, everything gestural he does looks to me like it has the "snowman problem". Like, he only draws chains of c-curves bulging outwards. That kind of stuff looks counter to any sort of flow or dynamism, is there a video or text where he explains how he makes it "work" despite that?

>>6289908
NTA but I just came to this board after a 10 year art hiatus, can you spoonfeed me some good books? I'm doing pretty good on fundamentals and am looking to mix in some stylization soon, would be nice if somebody already broke down that shit so I don't have to spend so much time studying art styles blind.

>>6288044
dude just copy hentai doujins back to back LMAO

>>6289916
Drawabox is Peter Han's Dynamic Bible, or even further Norman Schureman's lectures, only filtered through the mind of an autistic person and as such explained in an autistic manner, but fundamentally reasonable approach applicable by many.

Scott Robertson, on the other hand, is pure undiluted savant-level autism in a primordial form, where no neurotypical thought has ever touched. It's probably unapplicable even for assburgers.

>>6290259
>It's probably unapplicable even for assburgers.
Doesn't that make it pointless?

>>6288044
>No perspective book
NGMI

>>6290259
>>6290293
How to Draw is understandable once you understand perspective
thats a funny thing to say because why would you need the book if you already know perspective. but its great if you need to refresh your mind on how perspective works

The New York Student's League stuff is not where you should start imo. It's better for once you're more advanced and if you decide you want to specialize in a certain type of illustration. It basically feels like it's used as a simplified version of Russian academic drawing that illustrators used to pose 3d models in scenes in their heads before you could just use blender and trace over everything. That's like 4/6 of these books, and one of the others is an anatomy bible. Realistically, I would say a good start for a beginner would be to do long figure drawing poses on a regur basis and copy the Bargue block-ins using a consistent method (research them and choose the one you think best). When you finish the block-ins you can start working on value, I haven't read how to render but I'm sure it's fine. Then once you have the fundamentals of being able to observe, accurately block in, and then render, you can branch out into what kind of drawing/painting/illustration you want to learn from there.

>>6288367
sauce on that pic btw

>>6288044
All you need is Bammes and Vilppu.

>>6289699
your expectations are far to linear
sometimes you need to learn the boring stuff to branch off into more complex shit
how could you ever hope to draw figures if you can't draw a box?

>>6290473
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DytGnPzQAZE
I don't know exactly the source to that image, but it's from "BearTheMighty" (IG, Twitter, etc.)

>>6290514
thank you

>>6290513
freehanding a box is much different than plotting it out.

>>6288044

i know this has been asked to death but im an absolute beg, what books should i get /ic/?

>>6292040
Buy Vilppu, Bridgman, and a volume of your favorite manga. Your job now is to copy through every single panel in every page of that manga, as exactly as you can. It should take a year. If you did a bad job, do it again.

You might think I'm joking, but I'm really not. It's an exercise called master copies, and you have to do a heck of a lot of it to get anywhere.

>>6292057
Can you post your before after results? Nta but really interested in doing this.

>>6292156
I post over at the master studies general, usually. The OP has links where you can see Kirk Shinmoto and David Finch demonstrating and lecturing on master copies.

>>6292160
That's the most beautiful drawing I've ever seen on /ic/. Thanks anon! Once I finish my Bridgman and Vilppu I will do manga master studies.

>>6292197
Oh no, I copied it from a manga! It’s not my true skill level, but I’ve seen tremendous improvement from studying this way. Feel free to post your Vilppu and Bridgman at msg too!

>>6288044
Don't miss this!

>>6292197
Bridgman is tough even for experienced artists that have learned anatomy from other books, be careful about diving right into it. Also look into books that teach you the basics (like drawing basic shapes and forms).

>>6288044
If you read those cancer books. You'll never be able to draw anime girls Lmao

>>6290251

>>6292961

>>6292057
when you do this are you supposed to construct the drawing like how you think the original artist did it or do you literally just draw what you see

>>6293289
Construct, but also be accurate. You need to think in both ways

>>6293289
Do it so as to train what you want to train. It's like going to the gym and asking whether to do legs or upper-body.

Well, it depends what you want to develop!

>>6292798
Thanks, any recommendations?

>>6289916
the only thing DAB has in common with scoro is the first lesson in markmaking, and then it circles back around to object and vehicle drawing. It never teaches you actual perspective (lol). HtD isn't really a "course," it's more like a reference manual. But it's a thick one, could take you quite a while. Regardless, it's more focused than DAB, which IMO is an eight week course packed into eight months, if you get my drift. If you do Peter Han and Scott Robertson, you've pretty much done DAB but better.

>>6294125
nta but here:
https://archived.moe/ic/thread/6250474/#6250630
and IMO hampton's Figure Drawing: Design and Invention is a good book to do before Bridgman. Don't bother reading Bridgman, it's not explained well. Hampton's book explains everything Bridgman is doing and makes it easier to understand when you do your copies. Plus it's good for memorizing the surface muscles and their iconic shapes.

“Realistically speaking” you dont need any fucking books at all
You need to draw and practice a bunch and learn from your mistakes

>>6295785
Yes, but that's no fun. We like to argue that you aren't shit unless you read the book we did. We do this instead of helping or drawing.

>>6295785
if you just drew over and over without understanding the proper process it would take you so long to improve. Learning how to view the body as a combination of cylinders and boxes will make you improve much quicker, reading an anatomy book will teach you anatomy way quicker than trying to figure it out by looking at images. You shouldn't copy books for hours every single day without drawing but you shouldn't completely ignore them either

>>6295785
>500+ years of collective knowledge available online
>nooo wtf reinvent the wheel bro... plz... wtf...

>>6288044
6 books and not even one has anything to do with actually drawing anime, i applaud

>>6296289
Some books will make you worse. Look at "high art," then look at comics and manga. A lot of these trad educated faggots draw ugly shit that you have to be university indoctrinated to like. Granted this is all subjective, but the term "beg trap" exists for a reason.

>>6297187
is trad academic art the Mark Rippetoe 'SS + GOMAD' of Art?

>>6296273
Or, maybe having the book spoon feed you robs you of the skill of self learning. Where's your control group? How can you assert what process is faster if you don't have data on the counterexamples?

Having said that, anatomy reference isn't a bad thing. It's just these bookfags who insists their personal guru is the end all and be all are fucking annoying.
I have to wonder how many of these losers have student loans and sunk cost fallacy...

>>6297193
To be honest, I'd never heard of that, but I just googled it and yeah, maybe. Also, thank you for letting me know the concept. I'm struggling with weight since I quit smoking, but that's another board.

I realized how much I hate this style when I was looking for instructional videos and found this
https://youtu.be/SQYvdr_9g3w
This isn't a five minute gesture. This dude spent at least fifteen minutes making a shitty drawing from a photograph.
Be honest, if you never saw fine art in your life, you'd say this was bad.

>>6297200
If you want to get into fitness, I can vouch for the youtube channels:
Natural Hypertrophy
Alphadestiny
Jeff Nippard

wagmi

>>6297200
Perspective and anatomy are both fucked. Why anyone bothers to learn fig drawing from anyone besides great masters and vilppu is beyond me. Everytime I see this just draw the silhouette and shade the form technique I cringe, it turns out so fucking flat and stiff.

>>6297211
I've seen Jeff, I'll check out the other two

This is probably a better example. It's same YouTube guy, twenty minute no reference. This is that art style that gets a pass on sucking. I'd imagine David Finch would do better in twenty minutes.

>>6297216
Good figure drawing is built up in layers - be ausr the form the artist has in their mind is constantly changing and moving towards further clarity.

>>6297216
Okay, so it's not just me. Thanks!

>>6297216
Now that I've had time, I'm thinking it's bad imitations of vilppu that I'm seeing a lot of. I'm going to give vilppu himself another look. I think his imitators turned me off to his work.
But then again, maybe because he's doing something so easily done badly maybe as instruction material he sucks? Like if you're not really good don't even try his style?

>>6297231
Vilppu is really good, he's like an extension of Bridgman. His whole figure drawing approach is based around the skeleton and adding musculature on top of that, so everything's solid. (He's getting old, into his 90's, so his recent drawings aren't as good as when he was younger)

>>6297231
Vilppu is literally meant for the beggest of beginners and he heavily encouraged beginners to take his classes. Move onto master studies once you learn how to approach the forms of the figure - his style is an introduction to how the masters show form.

>>6297234
I just watched a few videos he's in.
>>6297234
>Meant for beginners
I highly disagree, at least from the videos, maybe the books are different. From the videos I truly understand what people mean when they say "beg trap." Trying to do what he does without the fundamentals sounds insane!
Lines drawn to a rhythm and that "through the form, around the form, complete the form" shit is just setting up beg for pain. He straight up draws the figure without any of that shit, and says it's from years of repetition. Without those years and the ability to do that following his method would be like learning to play guitar while rehearsing live choreography! I read in here all the time about ppl upset because they can't "find the forms."

There's more. He makes a big distinction between gesture and rendering, and postulates that rendering defines style. (I disagree, saying that gesture is his style, but what do I know?) He then goes on to describe his own style in terms bordering on self deprecating, or at least that's how it felt to me.
https://youtu.be/pa_2rL1K1mg
See if you agree?

I'm the end, he feels like the world's best sketch guy, but he needs a good ink guy to finish his amazing ground work.
I'll check out his earlier work and reevaluate that assessment, if needed.

>>6297387
Lmao saying vilppu is a beg trap is peak ic. Draw along with vilppu don't just watch it's a visceral and highly educational experience.

>>6297390
I mean, how did this work? If I do well then your right, if I do poorly then I'm just not good enough. What is this supposed to prove?
I mean, you think I should copy him line for line in real time? It just copy what he has?
I have done this with other artists. I can try the experiment if you think it has value.

>>6297403
I'm too tired to spell check, I'm definitely to tired to draw live in real time to a video.
Maybe tomorrow. It will just be a bad experience right now, either way.

>>6297403
You seem really autistic maybe DaB is more your speed. If you want to actually study vilppu get his videos off the ic torrent.

>>6297415
Not really, I have too much to do. I'll draw along with a video tomorrow. I just watched him use a chamois. It's whatever. I usually argue with construction/Loomis advocates, but his shit seems so very "draw the rest of the fucking owl." Who knows? Maybe I'll love it and have a huge breakthrough. I'd love that too be the case, the way he does it looks fun.
I really think that's a thing better done after one learns proportions.
>Draw a box
Never. I'm not fucking grinding that shit. I'm not digital anyway. I've been fucking around with video games my whole life, the only appeal of this to me is physical art. If I'm playing on a computer I'll play tts or total war. I'm not fucking drawing with a tablet.

>>6297430
Okay so you don't actually draw. Got it.

>>6297435
Whatever you say, faggot!

>>6297465
> another schozo beg
I feel like I'm the only beg who has an iq higher than the room temperature on this board sometimes.

>>6297465
lol who are you to critique Vilppu?

>>6297498
Who are you that identifies with him instead of standing on his own work? He's just some guy, stop acting like I fucked your mom.
>>6297475
That's basic Dunning-Kruger. If you're still using the term "IQ" unironically then you're the retard they made feel smart and have been the whole time. Sorry to break it to you.

>>6297517
You've been showing off that shitty pic for a month now in the beg thread. I'm sorry you are incapable of learning schizo. That must be hard for you.

>>6297520
>A month
I drew it on September eighteenth. That's ten days. You really have no grasp of objective reality. You say schizo a lot because you hear it a lot. Would you like to know why that is?

>>6297465
>these are the retards shitting on Vilppu
luhmeow.

>>6297539
I mean, I wasn't shitting on him. If I wanted to shit on him, I'd say he was a washed up has-been who is suckering gullible liberal arts students with low critical thinking with his quirky methodology into being overly impressed with work the average student could do fifty years ago before shit education and instant gratification made everyone shitty because he could t no longer find regular and meaningful work and teaching and book publishing was the only way left to pay the bills, but I didn't say that, did I?

Keep crying that I insulted your self insert fantasy identity. Not my fault you didn't imprint on someone who makes a product non studentfags actually like and would pay for in the last thirty years...

...Is what I'd say if I was doing that. But I wouldn't say that because he seems pretty chill.
You are hopeless, tho.

>>6297550
no one will take you seriously with the work you posted though. Check your ego

>>6297465
>loomis bad
>vilppu bad
>construction bad
And of course whoever spouts this, this is their level of work! The /permabeg/ label exists for a reason!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHH!

>>6297615
I'm a hobbyist,I don't care.
Also you've been constantly replying so you are taking me seriously.
>>6297770
I hope your drawing is better than your reading comprehension. Who are we kidding, we know it's not our you wouldn't be so fucking triggered by your own misinterpretations.
Really struck a nerve, didn't I?

>>6297882
yeah man, i take you seriously, I want to help you out, but your opinions on drawing teachers don't hold water with such a poor drawing ability as that. Too bad your ego is getting in your way

>>6297931
I listened to the vilppu interview on proko YouTube.
He sounds nothing like his /ic/ groupies. His advice doesn't match the shit his cult is telling me.
>Skill...ego
Nothing I've said is unreasonable or egotistical. None of the basis for my opinions is based on drawing skill. If you had half the comprehension you claim, you'd realize that lower skill correlates to knowledge of the effectiveness for beginners, something someone of experience by definition cannot know.
I might draw along with his shit later because I said I would, but the way the cult of vilppu has been talking on this thread despite my initial diplomatic tone, I'm not sure I'm still obligated to bother.
I did have some free time earlier and experimented a bit with figure drawing, but I didn't have a convenient screen to draw along to.
Glenn didn't have himself to copy, and if you watch the proko interview he says he just studied everybody. He's just some guy who liked painting who got lucky and got picked by Disney. His instruction is fine, but it's certainly not a requirement, and attempting to draw gesture like him at /beg/ level is fucking absurd. I'll try it anyway if you don't reply something stupid. Maybe.

https://youtu.be/rbN8wbRz9i8
The interview in case your cannot into google

>>6298453
I don’t care what you do lmao, but don’t go and give bad advice because you don’t know any better. Vilppu is king, Vilppu is queen

whats the best book that teaches drawing figures in perspective?

>>6298689
Cringe. Suck his dick harder.

There, I drew along to half a video. It's fine. Whatever. I'm not trying to do it like him. It's really just me listening to him and copying the model (which he expressly said he is NOT doing, but I see even less point in copying him and not looking at the model, so what's the point exactly?)
Go ahead and tell me I suck and how this proves what a great teacher your man crush is.
He's the guy Disney appointed to teach the animators to all draw the same. He's not pencil Jesus.

>>6288044
you literally don't need any book at all, if you are not low IQ and can actually observe and think for yourself. do you really think any of the masters sat around reading about art to get good? lmao

>>6298712
They copied masters a million times over, which all these books tell you to do as well. You are as low IQ as >>6298708

>>6298712
Quiet, you'll trigger the fan clubs!

>>6298716
>which these books tell you to do
But, we already know that. What do we need the books for?

>>6298716
HAHA why do you need a book to tell you to copy and learn from observation?????? fucking low IQ ape. so as i said previously: LMAO

>>6298720
You don't, master study is a tried and true method. However learning from someone who can explain their process and tell you how to study from the masters is also an invaluable tool.

You forget that all those masters were a part of art movements and not antisocial neets who can't afford art centers tuition. Different times etc, steal and use all the information you can anything else is kneecapping your development.

>>6298723
Read nigger, people.dont exist in a vacuum even geniuses.

>>6298728
Basically all of us are trying to make it with our joining an art movement and school because we are already wage slaves and top autistic to interact with people. In which case free available instruction is our best alternative.

>>6298730
Like just consider that rockwell Loomis Pollock and hale all studied under bridgman and niccolaides - we just use their books to get something close to this level of environment at home but obviously its a shadow to the real instruction and working alongside similarly devoted peers. But again none of us have rich parents.

>>6298726
>>6298730
The interview
>>6298467
It's actually really good. Better than this stupid argument or those overrated books.

>>6298735
Yeah, but videos do this far better. I often learn more from what they don't verbally tell me, but I observe.

>>6298745
That's fine ofc I agree that vilppu is only king because of his collection of now three decades worth of visual instruction. I'm kinda afraid of the future when I will have to take off the training wheels and study predominantly from a book and studies.

>>6298751
What makes him good is he's from the old times but didn't shun new tech. He made videos and embraced digital. He's also really fucking honest and humble, or at least appears that way.

>>6298708
>Suck his dick harder.
God I wish

>>6298851

>>6288044
Not OP, will these 6 books be enough to draw normal girls?

>>6298723
>>6298712
pyw

>>6299245
100% yes. More than enough, actually

>>6299980
Sweet, with that being said I know the key to becoming adept at art (well anything) is by doing.
Let's say I want to speedrun being able to draw nudes. Assuming I'm drawing all the drawings and studies per the instructions daily, about how long should this take me you reckon?

>>6288044
I mean, yeah, wouldn't you need a book instructing you on how to draw unrealistic, non-human faces?

>>6300100
It's an infinite staircase, but you can do something pretty pro in 2-3 years, if you do everything right. (starting from 100% beginner)

>>6300273
Sounds pretty good I'll start sketching in my spare time then

>>6300354
>sketching in my spare time
that might take 5-6 years, but if that's what you can do, that's what you can do!

>>6288044
Realistically speaking bargues.

>>6300614
completely useless