/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6263837
>only Japanese comics sell
just dont put your political views in your comic. EZ

>>6263841
I'm honestly afraid that even if they remained apolitical they'd still wouldn't sell much.

>>6263845
My hero academy is literally a comic, kinda, and sell like water.

>>6263837
98% of their mangas have piss writing.

>>6263837
>why
I just like to draw cool comics

Webtoons are more popular than manga.

>>6263848
>>6263855
my point is, there's so much fucking stuff out there already, why even bother trying to enter into an already extremely saturated market? And I'm not talking about "becoming a mangaka in Japan" that's already extremely hard even for the Japanese, I mean just making comics and trying to get them to book stores. Japan produces so much crap it becomes pointless to produce more, wherever you are.

>>6263855
pyn (post your novel)

>>6263841
Nah, just don't be too... Rough I guess about politics
I mean, shit like the X-Men and Cap have politics on their bloodstream, but they were respectfull of the themes they tackle.
Today political commentary just feels like someone throwing a word dump to you. expecting you to be entretained by it and despicing you if you don't agree to all of their takes.
Every narrative has at its core the opinions of their authors, art is a window to how we feel.

Just write a good story and it will sell, generic isekaishit #1789372 only succeeds out of pure luck or the quality of the sluts in it

>>6263837
>Pretty much only Japanese comics sell
Wrong. As far as I'm aware, indie comics (outside of the big 2) have been selling as well as they ever have. Comics are selling great at the moment, it's just that those incompetent losers at DC/Marvel completely fumbled the biggest opportunity at marketing their companies will ever fucking get (have their franchises turn into massive media cultural events) and now their comics are selling worse than ever.

>their market is cartoonishly saturated
This is true, but it's all the more reason to make comics; people are obviously hungry for the medium, but let's be honest, Japanese stuff has a certain flavour to it that a lot people don't really care for. Not to mention Japan has a massive 'originality' problem. Stop me if you've seen this work before:
>Guy/Girl loves videogame, but is a failure as an adult, dies (probably from truck) only to wake up in said videogame, but not before talking to god - and that god is shocked by the protag for some reason (the japanese power of being happy to die is usually what shocks them), videogame aesthetic is old European, there's a demon king the protag is told he needs to defeat (though these days the demon king is a chill bro 90% of the time), protag is surrounded by gaggle of babes/hotties at some point, protag introduces such shocking things as "rice" and "taking fucking baths" and the quasi-europeans shit themselves at how brilliant and original protag is, protag probably also just wants a 'slow life' after working at a 'black company' and will use their 'cheat skills' to do so.

There are certain elements there that should be distinctive to a singular, maybe two works, but I could swear I've read about 30 of these exact fucking things, at that's just the scum on top of that stagnant pool. Japanese works are so often thoroughly cookie cutter it's shocking these guys wanted to go into a creative industry in the first place.

>>6263900
some webtoon authors are making millions too.

Because I like comics and want to make my own? What difference it makes if there is a lot of them already? There are already tons of music all over the place, how is that a reason not to learn a instrument and play it?

>>6263904
>webtoon authors
They have a pretty bad originality problem as well, though it's not nearly as severe as Japan's. For them, it's all about girls being transported into a romance novel (usually as something other than the heroine - - what an original twist!), and dating the evil duke who solves every problem for her; alternatively about dungeons appearing all over the world/a world ending apocalyptic event and a loser Korean turning his life around and becoming the strongest of them all!

>>6263837
because i want to make a story i want to tell, not be popular

>>6263837
Manga ARE comics, numbnuts. People are just buying stuff they like, and it just happens that the japanese are making a lot of stuff that people like right now.

>>6263900
>As far as I'm aware, indie comics (outside of the big 2) have been selling as well as they ever have
I googled it and seems like indies have never sold that much to begin with, about 6000 copies is successful for an indie tittle. I looked up the submission guidelines for Antarctic Press (guys specializing in Manga-Influenced Comics) and their site very much warns you "the market is shrinking."

>Japanese stuff has a certain flavour that a lot of people don't really care for.
Agreed. While I loved a lot of the anime from the 90's I grew up on... Modern anime just looks sort of bland and cookie cutter. I sort of wonder if it's still as big a subculture today.

>Isekai Genre
That shit's bad. I'd rather have a story just be set in the medieval fantasy world, rather than some guy from real world travel to rpg game world and then stumble into all of the cliches.
>>6263904
I've heard that. I'm glad they can make money off of this but again, internet popularity is extremely hard to achieve, it mostly depend on luck, there's really talented artists out there that barely get any attention, and really crappy people with really crappy art still getting to make a ton of followers to monetize from...
>>6263927
you sir, I envy you, sincerely. Wish I could achieve that mindset of yours...
>>6263928
>a world ending apocalyptic event and a loser Korean turning his life around and becoming the strongest of them all!
Sounds based.

>>6264002
>I googled it and seems like indies have never sold that much
Were you including graphic novels? The way they categorise this shit is frustrating, I decided to look it up as well and it looks like indies and graphic novels are selling more (an increase of 60%). But perhaps your news is more recent (mine is a report from 2021 and another from feb this year)?

Why graphic novels are separated from other comics, I don't know.

>Sounds based.
Can be. It suffers from the same problem as Japanese stuff; the character doesn't really grow and is just GIVEN the powers he uses to overcome everything, rather than earning it in any way.

>>6263900
>Japanese stuff has a certain flavour to it that a lot people don't really care for.
People in the past played games like Final Fantasy 7 and watched Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop without ever complaining about them being "too japanese" and the likes, tho? It seems like your problem seems to be specifically with isekai shit that plagues modern anime and retard zoom zoom weebs who continue consooming crap ironically and recent tiring tropes. At least I can name some decent anime/manga produced in the last 5 years as someone who doesn't even watch anime that much anymore, what do /co/ fans have? Outside of comics, Castlevania went to shit in the latest seasons and Arcane was good but nothing that great outside of the visuals really.

>>6264026
>People in the past played games like Final Fantasy 7 and watched Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop without ever complaining about them being "too japanese" and the likes, tho?
No, they really did. People didn't/don't appreciate certain cliches and aesthetics that Japan loves; The art style, the frequent incest - onichan themes, the harems, the panty shots and cheesecake, the heavier leaning into gender stereotypes, almost every story (outside of isekai) being set in a school; I personally don't mind it, but it's not surprising that a lot of people can find it grating. In fact when we look at the breakthrough anime series (trigun, cowboy bebop, etc) they were all series that sort of bucked the trends that Japan and anime as a whole tend to follow and tended to have more western themes

>>6264035
>The art style, the frequent incest - onichan themes, the harems, the panty shots and cheesecake, the heavier leaning into gender stereotypes, almost every story (outside of isekai) being set in a school
Thank god the titles I mentioned except maybe for Evangelion DON'T have any of this shit. What you're describing is just the most common denominator shit that has only been popular the last 15 years or so, and even if you're not a weeb you can find titles that aren't anything like this very easily, ever heard of the seinen demographics?
>In fact when we look at the breakthrough anime series (trigun, cowboy bebop, etc) they were all series that sort of bucked the trends that Japan and anime as a whole tend to follow and tended to have more western themes
Onlu if you're a normie american mutt with shit taste since they got anime late. Hokuto No Ken, Saint Seiya, Harlock, a lot of shoujo adaptations and many more were way more popular in Europa and South America that the toonami shit ever was in the US, yet you don't seem to consider them despite using otakushit that even the japanese themselves don't like very much as the example of every anime mmmm? Even Dragon Ball and Jojo are the opposite of what you've been descriving and they don't scare off many normies either.

God, I fucking hate americans and all the west vs east shit. If you don't know jackshit and base your argument on memes or shit youtubers say, you could as well just don't say anything.

>>6263837
>Pretty much only Japanese comics sell,
fucking retard the frogs ingest that shit like they do snails. they love their comics. American publishers just have terrible fucking taste.

>>6264059
Sorry I didn't list every anime ever when talking in a general sense you fucking dipshit.

>>6264059
you are right, anime/manga has been huge in Europe and LATAM for longer than the US. Hell, Dragon Ball (the original, not Z) and Arale were already airing in Mexico in the early 90's.

comics are for manbabies

>>6264814
>comics are for manbabies
>Cartoons are for manbabies
>Drawing is for manbabies

>>6264059
>God, I fucking hate americans and all the west vs east shit. If you don't know jackshit and base your argument on memes or shit youtubers say, you could as well just don't say anything.
sasuga arale enjoyer

>>6263837
Are people just realizing that drawing generic trannime is stupid? Lmao

>>6263837
You can make this argument about literally anything.
No point in making video games, dozens of new games come out on Steam every day.
No point in drawing anything at all, there’s already 20 million pics on pixiv and artstation.
For the love of God, don’t get me started on music.
If you make any sort of art at all in any medium then you are entering an extremely saturated market and you need to make your peace with that.

>>6263898
x-men were an allegory for minorities, if not black people specifically. they made some of them have relatively useless powers, discrimination based on them never made sense, but then you have retardedly powerful ones, and the discrimination makes total sense as they are an existential threat, while the comics are from the 'good guys' you could also understand, sometimes even relate to the opposite bad guys, both villain and the discrimination, but they tend to have the story focus on the good guys.

modern day if this concept would be put in practice, the mutants would all be on one side with a fat lesbian who is a total sociopath and obvious villain as the leader of the good guys, the absolute gayest boys possible and the butchest females would be fighting blond hair white men who spray orange on themselves with their leader being a billionaire orange person who has no real life allegory but talks the best, I mean no one talks better than him, best public speaker in the world, believe me. and every reader who sees it just wants every single one of the good guys heads to be caved in american history x style, but the comic ends in 12 issues, the 'good guys' burtally murder everyone and all the straight people in the world a free to be gay now.

I personally see the current comic industry as non salvageable because the rights holders don't want them to succeed, they just want properties to take and give to people who MAY be able to make the thing palatable to a normal audience. its why nearly every idea put to film had to be extensively reworked (some of it to make it make sense to an average non comic book invested person, some because the writing was fucking dog shit) and every good storyline they put to film is 20-40 years old.

>>6263837
>seething american comic fans

>>6264017
graphic novels typically are self contained stories, essentially what they are called, a graphic novel, a novel that uses images as its medium instead of words, while comics are serialized stories.

graphic novels typically are printed in a higher quality, and the buyers will pay a premium for them, so why they may have low runs even the low runs can bring in substantial profit.

>>6265606
>x-men were an allegory for minorities, if not black people specifically
Mutants only make sense as a Race. It's about recessive genes (having an ancestor of another race and not knowing it) or the bad guys wanting a mutant homeland (an ethnostate) also thinking that they are genetically superior to other human beings (racial supremacy) modern Marvel writers trying to shove in gay shit into the X-men are honestly retarded.

>>6265623
I argue that marvel are some of the most racist and homophobic comics in existence, not because they preach hate, but they make my hate every gay and minority they put in them.

it's insane how little media literacy you retards have... maybe reconsider the whole being an artist thing, don't seem it's in the cards for most of you...
stick to fandom.

>>6263860
>>6263837
How many of them rehash the same themes?
>>6263899
Exactly. We don't need any of these shonen about a swordsman/ group of japanese/medieval european teenagers trying to save the world from Not-satan with the power of friendship in a Not-Tolkien world or feudal Japan.
>>6263900
Precisely : saturated with the same tropes.

>>6265995
You mean caring about quality doesn't make us artists? Get out of here dyed haired fag

>>6265995
>What!? You guys don't like everything?
>EAT THE SLOP! EAT THE SLOP!
Sorry for having taste anon.

I'm working on an LLM program that will create both the text and art for comics. Essentially you just click a button and a completed comic comes out. The comics aren't great yet, but they will be in the next few months, if current progress continues. Essentially I just want to (1) get rich and (2) destroy the industry. I'm still bitter that I couldn't be a mangaka because I'm not Japanese, so it feels good knowing I am a small part of a technological enterprise that will get to obliterate the industry that denied me.

>>6263837
>Pretty much only Japanese comics sell
Not true. Why should I bother with the rest of your post?

>>6263841
Ever hear guilty by association?
One ruins everything.

>>6267345
>One ruins everything.
More like the many ruins the few, but I get your point.
That said, there are still people who are very passionate about the medium, who would prefer western works (look at the successes for independent comics), so I still think >>6263841 's opinion holds up.

Western comics just have to claw back their reputation.

>>6267335

>>6263837
What about manga apps like Webtoons
Anyone can reach a wide audience with a comic on the internet. Not to mention just making porn comics, those quite literally go everywhere.

>>6267605
>Not to mention just making porn comics, those quite literally go everywhere.
I actually wonder what the profit margins are on those; I doubt most anyone here has ever paid for a porn comic - but I'm sure many of us have read our fair share.

>>6263962
>>6263858

this.

I rarely seen people who comes into the space completely devoid of passion for the story they wanted to tell and succeeded, unless they are just very good technically, but i don't know how they become good in the first place if that's the case.

>Manga
>Webtoons
Comics and Graphic Novels need to rebrand themselves to some buzzword and be without DC/Marvel and superheroes, but with the help of European (French/Belgium) comics.

>>6267625
>Graphic Novels need to rebrand themselves
Haha, well that's what graphic novels were. We could be extra high-brow and call it "sequential art" maybe?

>>6265971
kek, some gay writers do accidentally create "offensive" caricatures of gay people...
>>6266081
that is true, it's not just the art style that looks same-y, story wise and character wise they are all too similar.
>>6267335
>couldn't be a mangaka because I'm not Japanese
The only reason you want to "become a mangaka in Japan" is because you have an idealized image in your head of how things are over there. I've been watching videos about anime/manga from the 70's and 80's, it sounds interesting and I can see how one comes to idealize that scene in that country, not to mention how popular those franchises are outside of Japan as well... But then, turns out the pay is way too low, below min wage actually, you can't really write your story the way you want because the editors have too much weight on it, the competition to break into that industry is so ridiculously high older artists advice younger artists to find a job elsewhere, or the workload and deadlines are so tight people is killed themselves over that. You really are better off working by yourself.
>>6267338
I mean, not literally, but American comics were only really popular within America, and now the market is shrinking, and translated Korean and Japanese comics outsell American comics within America. It's been happening since the late 90's, younger people don't give a crap about American comics and I'm afraid it's turning into not giving a crap about westerner comics creators, that people will just avoid non-Asian illustrators all together.
>>6267345
>One ruins everything
Very much this. Ok, nobody is buying Marvel, why isn't Antarctica or IDW or some other indie publisher the number 1 publisher in the US? Why is it that the best seller comics are translated Asian titles? Because people is just avoiding westerners all together.
>>6267605
I honestly have been thinking of publishing on webtoons and donning a Korean-sounding pen name...

>>6264819
Americans say and do a lot of stupid shit

>>6264062
Im french and the zoomers here only buy manga, not BD

>>6263858
>>6267610
Based.

>>6267793
Do they buy "Manfra" too or is their opinion of Manga-Influenced comics the same as in America?

>>6267710
>kek, some gay writers do accidentally create "offensive" caricatures of gay people...
Its not some, think of it this way, how do you know someone is gay? You don't, unless you play into stereotypes, or they show that they are gay on screen, a good half the people who watch a show don't like watching passionate make out scenes, so you have to go the stereotype, now many shows that mandate the 'have to have the gay character' are also comedys, so they play the shit up to a ridiculous degree, that said the stereotypes aren't out of thin air, they exist for a reason, and I have met some gay people I would argue were homophobic because their existence, everything they did, wore, acted was such an extreme stereotype that you could argue they set gay people back in everyone's eyes who had to deal with them.

>>6267945
>that said the stereotypes aren't out of thin air
>and I have met some gay people I would argue were homophobic because their existence
>everything they did, wore, acted was such an extreme stereotype
I've met those too.

>>6263837
Jeez with the stuff Westerners spam on 4chan you'd think big boobs/butts are the only thing they make, but there are barely any T&A and lots of different styles.