/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

Today's challenge

>>6212022
they definitely are not

>>6212331
Stop making threads on page 2 faggot.

Gee I wonder what kind of schizophrenic work I'm going to crab next?

>>6212331
I just started learning drawing by myself but I have not idea why i'm disliking my drawings so much, there something missing but i'm not sure what it is. i'm like in-between bad and passable.

>>6212342
>wants to stay in that awful thread
Are you actually retarded?

>opening the thread with pony shit

does anyone have tips for coming up with things?
I'm working on a piece right now and I can't think of what to put in the background.
how do I get ideas?

>>6212356
There are no ponies in the OP at all

>>6212344
>i'm like in-between bad and passable.
Sounds about right. That piece is quite nice in some respects.

But, it is very messy. Its smudgy, vague in composition, flat in emotion. There is no clarity to any of it.
One thing that helps a piece which you seem to be missing, is a clear origin of light source. Light goes a long way in making wonderous things happen, visually. Try selecting where you want the focal point of a work to be, and making the light tones of that spot several shades lighter than spots further away. Draw the gaze, so to speak.

Remember that art is not merely replicating what we see, but attempting to elevate it. It is made up of many elements, from shapes and textures to expressiveness and the like. Try drawing something from one of those perspectives, instead of from a realism perspective.

Work on something that is *purely* expressive, or purely compositional, etc. Push your boundaries, then come back to what you were trying to do with this piece with all that you discovered from those exercises.

>>6212356
>recognizing OP image as pony shit
sounds like a you problem

CC please?

I'll ask here but how do you deal with encouraging friends? Both started as /beg/ dogs a year back. I went about it casually because I have courses still so I haven't burnt out yet but my friend went all in and practiced all the books shapes, gestures, positions; you name it. I feel like he went too hard on it because he hasn't done many full pieces of art since and has shown no visual improvement. I can kinda look at my weeb shit and see a bit of improvement despite the very big use of references. At the same time me and him can both see his complete lack of improvement despite tryharding more. This makes him not want to practice anymore and no encouragement works. He thinks it's all about talent and doesn't want to just put the daily effort it because it doesn't reward him. I can't pinpoint his habits but if he's not improving after a year of daily practice, is he just not focused enough on picking up his mistakes? Or is he practicing extremely wrong by not finishing art all the way to coloring?
I feel it's rude to post somebody else's art without permission so I won't I think. I'll post my progress but any advice you would give to him/me idk. What's an easy way to give a 'wake up call'?

>>6212344
Too much blur, strange eyes proportions, looks fine at all.

>>6212365
This isn't Maple Story.

>>6212361
thanks for in the input mate will try it out and post later. got work today so not today.
>>6212369
yeah, now that I see it I goofed with the eyes proportions.

>>6212331
any books on how to draw Armor and Clothing?

Drew this for /d/ yesterday.

>>6212368
you don't know what he actually did, unless you were by his side literally at all times

>>6212368
>I feel like he went too hard on it because he hasn't done many full pieces of art since and has shown no visual improvement.
The most important part of practice is taking your newly developed skills, finishing pieces with them, then either getting feedback or doing self-critique to find the next set of skills you have to develop. If you don't do that part, you will inevitably hit a plateau where you have developed all the skills you think you need, but never take the next step in discovering what skills you weren't even aware of needing at the start of your journey.
If your friend is stuck at a particular level, its not just a matter of asking "What am I doing wrong?" but also, answering that question with specific, targeted answers, then also finding solutions to those issues on top of that. Self critique is a very hard process, its why teachers are so valuable.

I have a friend who drew in a sketchbook at least once every day. But, they only drew in a style with which they were comfortable. Drawing things you can already draw IS NOT PRACTICE, its doodling. You only improve when you are pushing past the far fringes of your current skill level as hard as you can: Drawing things you don't yet have the skill to draw, in styles you have little exprience with etc. That's how you improve.

>What's an easy way to give a 'wake up call'?
Don't know your friend so I can't say. Getting them to just finish pieces may be a start. Getting them to do self-critique, or even group critique alongside you, is another step. I'm sure you know your friend better, and you seem to already have an idea about what the problem stems from. They got lost in the books, lost the forest for the trees etc.
Help them put all that shit down and fall in love with the art again, perhaps. Stop practising for a while and just start making art, then get back to practising when the art of it all is back in their bones. I may be wrong though, like I said, you know your friend better than us.

>>6212387
nice

>>6212387
Fantastic job, looks really good. The only critique I can think of is the torso on the right is too short.

>>6212368
Post his recent work.

>>6212397
Well we are together often so during those times I can see him practice. I can't really read inbetween the lines that well since I'm not skilled at social scenarios but he looked very motivated at the start. And now it's like always down and I have to try and cheer him up otherwise he spends his time doing other shit and losing the habit of daily practice/drawing.
>>6212401
Very useful advice, thanks anon. I'll specifically try to do a group critique so I can give my own advice even if I'm bad like him. Because if he critiques himself it's not very... critical.
>what don't you like about your piece
>everything
>what specifically
>it looks ugly
Yeah... I'll need to develop my critical eye to assist a brother. Maybe that's not the most important thing but rather just finishing pieces. But he did finish a decent amount at the start then it fell into comfort 'drawing'.
> finishing pieces with them, then either getting feedback or doing self-critique to find the next set of skills you have to develop
This feels like the big point. It feels like he's just falling back to his comfort zone and then being frustrated that he's not seeing improvement. I think it's normal for us to not have a distinct art style yet since we're not exactly past the beginner stage but I can sense the frustration. Feels like I'm tiptoeing on a minefield. Maybe the pressure of wanting to become good is getting to him?
>>6212423
I feel like it's too rude. Isn't there some way to spoiler images or something.

>>6212426
>I feel like it's too rude.
And shittalking him behind his back and vaguely implying how good and effortless you are is very nice and kind, right? Jfc.

>>6212430
Sorry that's not my intention. I just wanted to point out the current dynamic. You can criticize my work too I'm open to it I know for a fact I don't have my shapes down perfectly. Head being too big is something I'm trying to fix. But the main thing I want to know is what are ways to motivate someone who isn't motivated.

>>6212387
You should post this in the futa general

>>6212433
All the recent work you've posted is a disembodied anime head just like the /ic/ anime artist meme goes. Combine that with the "I'm SO much better than my LAZY friend!" textwall and its just way too funny.

>>6212426
>I think it's normal for us to not have a distinct art style yet since we're not exactly past the beginner stage
Literally style is the last, most extremely difficult thing you develop. Its an assembly of all the skills you have, but refined with a personal vision for beauty and hammered out over thousands of repetitions as you discover what you find you love about the art you produce. Style is the endgame, and it is the DISTANT endgame.

>Feels like I'm tiptoeing on a minefield. Maybe the pressure of wanting to become good is getting to him?
My friend is much like that, so I feel your pain here. Especially if you want to have a career in the arts, you *have* to be good to get there.

But, pressure and the stress negates art. Creating art ought to be uplifting. You ought to be working on things, that by the end of them you are smiling even if its crap, because you made it, and it was the best you can do so far.

Art is spiritual, it is a dance with beauty itself. The practice is to become better dancers, but getting to be in contact with beauty for a short while requires none of it. You can't lose that. If your friend has lost that, I'd say yeah, do your best to help them discover it again. Toss "getting better" aside for a bit, you can always come back to it later. The joy of art should come first.

>>6212444
Shit maybe I need some introspection myself. I'm rereading it and yeah, it comes across a bit too harsh on my friend and too happy of my own development. Maybe there's a reason why drawing is demotivating him but he won't tell me aside from the fact that he hates his art. As for the most recent piece I'm trying, I just wanted to draw faces up close because I noticed I wasn't good at it. Definitely gonna try the other anon's advice and try to move forward together because he definitely still has the passion for it just is in a rut for the past few months that I can't pull him out of. Maybe it's not my job to pull him out of it either.
Either way, do you have any advice for coloring or anything in my 2 more recent works? On top of the issues that have been pointed out to me before with the long neck and lineart being a bit shit but I'm not sure how to improve.

>>6212449
If style is the end game then permabegs already developed their style so from your statement it really is over for them. Too bad.

>>6212457
>If style is the end game then permabegs already developed their style so from your statement it really is over for them.
Style is not "what your art looks like", it is "Your artistic vision executed."

Beginners don't even have a vision yet, let alone the skills to execute it. They're still at the phase where they are seeing things through layman's eyes.

>>6212449
Kind of poetic. I think I'll ask the last few sentences to him to see what his stance on art currently is. Maybe it's time to go back to the basics. But how do you address this in a delicate way to someone who wants to 'make it' in the art world and feels pressed to do so?

>>6212444
anon are you trying to rile him up kek? bait dodged twice

>>6212461
>But how do you address this in a delicate way to someone who wants to 'make it' in the art world and feels pressed to do so?
I'd say that's a bad frame of mind. Assuming your friend wants to make a living from their art, eventually, their goal is still likely not to make money with their art. Their goal is to make art. Anybody can make money in any field, so that's not the motivation. Art is, the beauty of it is.

If a concern is that they feel pressured to "make it" in the art world, you can take a load of their back. You can literally be a complete talentless hack like Warhol and still succeed. The art industry is NOT the art experience. Succeeding in the *industry* is about networking, who you know, and how you present yourself.

You should seek to get better art art because you love art. The industry side of things has nothing at all to do with that interaction. You can get famous as an artist before you are even a good artist.

I mean fuck it, if you situate yourself right you don't even have to be a fucking artist at all. Go read the story of Han van Meegeren for some fun on that front.

>>6212471
You sound very retarded and permabeg. I'm quite happy that he responded more maturely than you "kek".

>6212490
You sound like your average histrionic troon, desu

More edge brush studies

1h from ref

I feel like I have been sleeping on this technique for too long. Getting ok gradients and edges without having to work for it

>>6212497
Is the tranny in the room with us?

>>6212490
idk the moment he didn't bite you didn't even try giving solicited advice lmao. of course I can't either because I'm shit at art

>>6212502
How do you do this?

>>6212497
>trannies mentioned out of nowhere
based projecting tranny

>>6212497
oh look, the famous tourist tranny
hi

>>6212502
Looks great, bro

>>6212502
you mean using a double edge hard/soft brush?
like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UmKFPyVaag

>>6212505
good quesiton
>>6212502
fuck you mogger

>>6212517

critique please.
I keep adding gesture but it looks more and more weird

Drew another. How do I work faster so that I don't waste time at sketch phase for two hours and instead quickly move to line art and rendering?

>>6212545
left arm is very short

>>6212502
Here’s a timelapse

>>6212516
Thanks anon

>>6212517
Yeah sort of like that one, this one to be specific
https://jensclaessens.gumroad.com/l/llrgt

>>6212521
We’re all gonna make it anon, I believe in you!

>>6212545
she's falling over

>>6212558
people keep tell me to add gesture

>>6212545
>>6212561
Flailing limbs around wildly is not gesture. Also she's off balance. Read hampton and use the triangle method.

>>6212561
is she trying to throw a book? then the left arm doesn't work and neither does the raised leg. turn the leg inward and the arm inward. unless she's trying to show off how she's about to fall over.

>>6212556
6 bucks for a brush you can make in 6min
people seriously buy this shit?

>>6212572
Make it and upload it to mediafire then.

>>6212572
anon, if you’re an adult 6 bucks is not much money

>>6212577
i already commeted with a vid with the brushtip for the dual edge, the other brush is a normal airbrush
the chalk brush is just a typical chalk you can take as a base from any brush set ad apply texture on top of it
in krita it already has a brush like that for example
no need to get defensive its just 6bucks for an airbrush and 2 brushes you make yourself or that any other free pack already has or can modify
its pretty dumb to pay for that compared to any other gumroad shit you find
but i forget this is /ic/ so people get defensive about everything and need to call out everyone to feel better about their choices
hell you even got the resource threads with better brush packs for free just to add more insult to injury
so i will say it again, 6 dollars for a default brush, one brush with custom tip you can find for free or make yourself, and a chalk brush that you already find i other packs or make yourself using another chalk as a base and tweak settings if youre not a retard who cant google for 10min to know how PS brush engine works
its a pure ripoff

>>6212580
like i commented its just the idea of even selling 3 brushes that arent special
its like a celebrity selling you shitty products and people buy because of the name attached to it nothing more
if you wanna buy then buy it people do wtv they want with their money
i was just kind of amazed so many would buy that ad the audacity to even sell that

>>6212597
It’s all good anon, I’m all for being thrifty but I’m lazy and would rather spend some money if I find something I like than go hunting for the same thing or learn how to make it myself.

>>6212603
ye i get it at least you make good use of it, keep on drawin

>>6212545
I like it, it's appealing. I think it looks too androgynous though.

>>6212374
what do you mean?

What are some good video lectures on YT that teach you how to draw bodies and faces? All I see mentioned are books and I'm not a big fan of books.

>>6212659
never
gonna
make
it

>>6212659
>What are some good video lectures on YT that teach you how to draw bodies and faces?
the live model drawing ones
in real life

>>6212657
>has hasnt played maplestory
NGMI
(CC= Change Channel)

>>6212659
you're gonna have to READ one day.

critique

40min from ref

More edge brush practice

>>6212673
But whyyyyyyyyy
What do those books say that a video tutorial can't?

Okay, so I didn't draw this week, and barely any the week before that, but next week will be different. I promise. Really.

I'm the next tatsuki fujimoto

>>6212715
edgy

>>6212556
Don't know why people are arguing with you, this is really good.

>>6212549
Speed comes with time spent practicing. Honestly wouldn't worry about how fast you are unless you're creeping up on being /pro/

>>6212715
ywnbf

am i already pro anon?

>>6212731
Yes, I'm hanging it on the fridge right now.

>>6212549
After 200 plus bwehs you still haven't made any finished artwork?

>>6212331
feet gestures practice

>>6212694
dont let that brush become a crutch is all im gonna say, dont stop painting edges manually

Midnight sketches

>>6212365
mspaint chad
Girl looks passable. Since she's sliding down a waterslide, her hair should be moving. When looking at the background, is she at a waterpark, or is there just an enormous slide in her backyard?? Last, the water doesn't look like water.

>>6212500
Show feet, coward. Her waist looks impossibly small. Please practice hands, with love.

>>6212674
I like the composition and colors. The beach could use more work to make it more water-like. Bricks or stone on the bridge would be neat. You could paint them being cracked to show that the world is crumbling from this monster. Just a suggestion.

>>6212694
looks scary

>>6212731
Nah bro, int I guess. I'm not into labels though. I really like the stone in the foreground, but the blue ground in the back is meh. I also like the idea of this painting, but wouldn't some light be seeping into the sci room? It wouldn't be direct light but it wouldn't be really dark like it is. Maybe.
>>6212743
Better what I can do.
>>6212781
I like the clown fellow.

I'm trying to practice construction on different parts of the body, can anybody explain to me what the red triangle in this video is supposed to be a guide for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XlmiutwITE&t=3s&ab_channel=AKIHITOYOSHITOMI

I have a bad habit of starting new pieces without bothering to finish old ones. Thus I have a ton of WIPs and unfinished sketches and barely any polished work. How do I force myself to stick with something til it's done?

>>6212860
You just have to bro. Think of it as an assignment. You're not handing in something half-assed unless you want to barely pass.

>>6212860
Don't u like that nice feel when you finish something? I never start anything new before my current drawing is done.

>>6212387
i wouldnt call this beg at this point desu nice work

It's too hot to draw bros

Is there ANYTHING I could still improve, bros?

>>6212975
I feel like her tit is weirdly placed, and I know it's stylized but her torso is very thin. Other than that it looks really good.

>>6212331
figure drawing, was fun to do this one.

>>6212979
You forgot the left arm with the hand on top of the spine with the palms facing to the sky.

>>6207885
I finally finished it.

>>6212983
It's not supposed to be the fallen Peter Griffin pose but good idea

>>6212984
Fantastic job anon. I know it looks a little rough but you should still be proud.

just in 4 days poor terry lost the will to live

>>6212984
Saved for study, it has very unique feel to it

>>6212980
thanks bro
eh
perhaps I should try to draw some realistic proportions before going for extreme stylizations

>>6212984
Good job mate like the other anon said it looks a bit rough but I can't exactly talk about making things look "refined" when I don't even know when to consider something I made as finished

>>6213023
>his smile and optimism
>gone
Memes aside, massive improvement though.

>>6213013
>>6213034
thanks lads, yeah i definitely struggle with giving my work that polished "lcean" look, it always somehow ends up sketchy/messy even after hours of ironing it out.
>>6213023
glad you think it's interesting. here's my thumbnail for it in case you're interested.

any anime anons here? How do you begin blocking out colors? Do you start with values or block the colors Krenz style?

>>6213088
First of all, paint all the insides on one layer a randomly color, magenta perhaps. Then start coloring parts in different layers with the clipping mask.

>>6212333
I swear the bird eye was more properly aligned before the lazy color in, besides that just wanted to warm up.

>>6213088
Always colors. Values to color a meme and only somewhat useful for painterly styles.

>>6213088
what the others said, value to color is good for realistic/painterly styles. for anime artstyle you go with colors first.

>>6213088
funny how krenz is the new trend here lmao
especially when he teaches fundies and the tranime meme was born cuz you all refuse fundies for anime art

>>6213112
actually greyscale to color is better for the flat coloring i anime art since it has less blending and random marks where shit looks bad unless you overpaint it

>>6213135
Sounds like you don't know how to use the program.

>>6213138
what do you mean?
that i dont know how to greyscale to color?
i just said it is easier since anime coloring is just flat values there is little variance i edges, blending and less values overall to worry about
now fuck off ad dont forget to pyw in case you want to keep replying with dumb statements

>>6213145
since it is just flat color, it is better to go straight to colors from start

HELP ME SEARCH FOR GOOD DOCUMENT FOR BLOCKING IN DRAWING
Especially Drawing human, so i can learn how to draw group shot

>>6212738
No... I don't what the process for finishing artwork is. I don't know how to learn it.

Should I bother with learning anatomy or construction first?
I feel like constructing without anatomy goes nowhere but the opposite is also true. Learning both sounds good but I feel like the books in the sticky are always hyperfocused on one or the other
Also, I assume I should be focusing on recreating models by constructing them? When I try to draw shit straight from the dome I always end up with the same 2 things as of right now.

>>6212368
You faggots have wrong approach to drawing.
I'm drawing whole fucking day, every fucking day, pretty much whole fucking time, unless it's sex time.
My day off: once a week 4h max

Why? Because I fucking love drawing and can't imagine a day without it.

Took a much needed break yesterday and I think I've already improved a bit as far as studies go, I think the side plane was what was really fucking with me, along with my center lines not being in the same perspective.

>>6213224
too agressive there but youre right
most people here dont draw enough to see the results they want so they just seek other reasons for their lack of skill when the answer is simple, draw more

>>6213220
both, one leads to the other, start with a book like hampton, morpho or bridgman, or better yet just alternate between the 3
they teach both costruction and anatomy along with subtopics like gesture etc

>>6213220
Why would you learn any of that if all you draw is trannime? Just generate it with ai, trace or straight up post other people's work as your own. Nobody can tell trannime appsrt

>>6213241
Sounds good, thanks bro.
>>6213242
I don't know why you're sperging this hard. I didn't want to copy that lady 1 to 1 so I decided to experiment a bit by making her thicker all around.

>>6213239
What is this for? The head on the right looks nothing like the girl on the right? What are you learning doing this?

>>6213250
Uhh construction obviously?? What are you on about

>>6213250
How many times do we have to tell you retard? Don't reply to esdeath or he wil lstart wasting your time in the next 8 hours.

>>6213258
Why not just copy the thing directly? You don't even know if the construction is correct. You are just guessing.

>>6213266
>why work on your mistakes instead of giving up and just copying it?
lmao

>>6212331
>bringing the discord sticky back
You're quite the desperate little idiot, aren't you?

>>6213271
Tell you what anon. When you add other artists work in the OP like the /beg/ tradition it was, I'll stop making threads with the doc link.
Until you learn to compromise, I'll just keep making threads.

>>6213274
How about this instead: Every time I make threads, I do what I want, and don't care what a worthless little discord idiot like you has to say.

You can make threads however you like, but I'm never including your Discord sticky in mine, and couldn't give two fucks about your complaining lmfao.

>>6213266
I thought you were just an ESL or something but you're just fucking dumb holy shit, it's almost like you can copy over it once, do it freehand, and then use the lasso tool to check your work and find your mistakes
Christ, never post here again

>>6213277
Based post.

>>6213277
>Being this much of petulant child
Imagine being this petty. Literally all you have to do is follow the beg tradition we've had for literal decades and you'd get what you want. Instead you come into the thread bitching about discord drama that wasn't even brought up, and will continue to do so.
Bonifide definition of a fucking faggot.

>>6213277
>but I'm never including your Discord sticky in mine
That's not what I asked you to do. Literally all I want is to see other artists work in the OP, you can make a second post for the thread reference, and can be whatever reference you want.
You'd LITERALLY get what you'd want, make the thread yourself and without the doc link. I don't fucking care if you leave out the doc. You'd STILL get to post your references, and you'd get to personally choose whomever artist work as the thread OP. I genuinely don't know why this is so hard for you.
>inb4 some petty snarky reply
Fucking hell this board.

Quickie again, probably should polish it up a bit because eh.
Was going to place Clark across from him, but I struggled enough with something this simple, just too many gaps in knowledge and not enough time put in.
back to grinding muh irl portraits and studies for a few hours.

>>6213284
Haha cry more you worthless idiot. I give 0 fucks about your personal tradition and the same applies to everyone else in this thread but you.

If you're going to shill your discord in a sticky, I'm not including it. Suck shit you dumbfuck idiot LOL.

>>6213289
>That's not what I asked you to do
I don't care what you asked, idiot.

Not including your discord sticky in any threads I make. I'm also not posting any beg works because you cry like a bitch. Suck shit moron.

/beg/ here, pls critique!

>>6213383
I legitimately thought this was a poor copy of the box art because I forgot that it really is that fucking bad

>>6213383
>you'll never be a pre-internet /beg/ getting hired to do illustrations for huge projects

getting used to drawing digitally

use a reference next time, no one has a penis less than 6 inches.

>begin drawing
>start off strong
>slowly fizzle out til I take a break
>try to go back to the drawing later on/the next day
>already tired of it and can't bring myself to seriously work on it anymore
>rinse and repeat

>>6213450
My scanners say that you are a faggot

How the FCUK do I sketch landscapes with pencil? It seems impossible

>>6212356
Bro I'm pretty sure you're the horsefucker here. I legit used to be a brony back in middle school and I did not at all recognize the OP image as pony shit
Wait also literally wtf are you on there are humans in the image

>>6212796
thanks a lot for the feedback, yes it's supposed to be a waterpark I kust got really lazy with the bg

>>6213454
Everyone has been a brony at some point.

>>6213517
I haven't.
I'm into magical girls like every other well adjusted adult man.

>>6213517
That is like saying everyone fucked your mom, is that true?

>>6213383
>>6213414
>tfw the art world will never be this comfy again
we need to go back, begbros....

what are the best guides/teachers for drawing hands? i can only hide them for so long

also what needs the most work based on picrelated?

>>6213541
>what are the best guides/teachers for drawing hands?
Repetition.

trying to do better at fucking everything, do your worst

Heh.

>>6213454
>Wait also literally wtf are you on there are humans in the image
He is not saying the OP has ponies in it, but rather that the pic was made by someone who is into it from this thread
>>6206002

Anyone have torrent for proko's premium video:?

>>6212331
I have a relative who's into drawing but her fundies suck.
Is a 12 year old girl too young to get started on loomis? If so, what should I recommend her?

>>6213590
>Is a 12 year old girl too young to get started on loomis?
No, unless she's mentally handicapped like most of /ic/ apparently is.

>>6213590
>Is a 12 year old girl too young to get started on loomis? If so, what should I recommend her?
Almost every local community center should have youth art classes that will be tailored to younger people.
Look into them, see if you can get in contact with the teachers/facilitators to check if they actually know their shit or are just fumbling /int/s who think they're good enough to teach. If they're solid, that's a great route. It also connects them to community arts. A lot of the art world is about who you know.

I have only started drawing a few weeks ago. Before then, I coulnt make any sort of depth, so I feel like this is progress. Although my proportions are very bad. Advice?

>>6213590
I'd start with light perspective exercises to give her that "I can draw 3d objects" feel

>>6213599
>Advice?
Generic advice for everybody starting with pencils:
>Line control
Practice drawing basic shapes, straight lines and curves on the regular. Draw a line or shape, then go over that same line/shape multiple times as accurately as you can. Lines of different angles, shapes of different sizes, etc.
Just grab a piece of paper and absolutely fucking mangle it with lines, shapes and shit all over. Should be a total clusterfuck. Do that once a day.

>Pressure control
On top of that, once you have a good ol' clusterfuck of shapes and shit, start filling them in, with the following things in mine.
>Shading swipes should be straight and parallel.
>Pressure should be even across each passes, it should not be darker on the ends and lighter in the middle.
>The shading should be smooth and clean. Though there will always be a light texture in the direction of your pencil marks, the aim is to have it where no visible, separate pencil lines are present. Just a smooth shade.

You'll notice in your image, the lines are a bit squiggly, the and the shading looks like a bunch of separate scratches and lines instead of a smooth color. Line control and pressure control are the two real fundamental skills of pencil technique.

Beyond that, begin working with simple perspective drawings and trying to shade simple shapes. Draw a cube, shade each side a different smooth value so it looks 3d. Same with spheres, get a nice gradient going around the light source etc. Start very simple, and slowly work up to more complex 3d objects and still life drawings.


What you have there looks great for just a month of work though! Keep at it, man.

>>6213609
*following things in mind

do this booba look alright

>>6213599
>>6213609
an addendum with examples so you can start developing your ability to self-critique. Being able to look at your pieces and see what aspects of your technique may be leading to some unsightly results is valuable.

The earlier you get on a good self-critique cycle to help you adjust your technique *without* having to constantly seek feedback, the better.

>>6213620
>>6213609
Thank you so much. I didnt expect any actual advice from 4chan based on my experience on other boards, but I am very thankful for the feedback. This might actually be a cool community.

>>6213619
big breast sag without support, so the clothes should be a bit tighter or the breast should sag a little big if you are not drawing the bra

>>6213622
I also see a bit of smudging in your drawing. It can be a hard habit to break for someone used to exclusively writing, but really try to not plant your hand onto the page while you're drawing.
Pencil smudges. Smudging your work unintentionally makes it look messy. You can force yourself to do this by using a different grip (Holding the pencil with the tip of your index finger near the tip, the pencil going the same direction as your index finger and resting vertically in your palm, and your thumb and other fingers holding it, for example) if you end up *really* struggling to break this habit, though variant grips really aren't needed. Some people shill for them, and certain grips do help with certain techniques, but really whatever keeps you comfortable and prevents you from smudging the graphite everywhere is good enough.

Don't death grip the pencil, don't press too hard (If you are indenting the paper, you are pressing too hard. If you want darker areas and can't get them without indenting the page, you need a softer-lead pencil and not harder pressure.)

That should about cover the basics methinks.

>>6213629
alternate grip example
again, not needed, but you can try taking it up if you just can't break the writer's grip, hand-on-page habit. Experiment with pencil grip, if needed.

>>6213619
Show full belly please. Also nice skill.

>>6213629
Forgive me for not knowing, but what do you mean by smudging? I cannot point on my paper to what exactly you are talking about, but I would like to be able to.

>>6213636
it may just be the lighting, but I've adjusted the value of the image so some of the patches are more clear. Its often very subtle, but if you get to the stage where you're spending many hours on a single piece, the problem compounds massively and your pieces end up very messy.

It appears you have been rubbing some graphite on the page in some places, via the palm of your hand. This can also be caused by laying things on top of the paper, or closing a sketchbook on the page too, so I may be wrong.

Basically, every art medium has different things you have to do to treat it right and keep it happy. Pencil isn't super temperamental at all, but there are still a few things you have to watch out for. Accidental smudging is the big one.

Really not something you have to be too stressed about as a beginner. Its more of a keeping "oh yeah I should try breaking that habit" casually in the back of your mind type thing.

>>6213626
I tried to make them look slightly perky

>>6213634
didn't draw the stomach but thanks

>>6213642
Oh i see now. Thank you again very much. Every comment helps, as this is the first time im interacting with any sort of experience.

>>6213594
>>6213598
>>6213602
Thanks guys.

>>6213644
No problem, my friend! The smudging thing is a good example of "developing your eye."

Its like, so many aspects of art you won't even be aware of yet. A "You don't know what you don't know" situation. This is why the self-critique thing is important, really looking at what you've put together and asking what specifically about needs to be refined or adjusted. Pushing your eyes to see it from different angles, to uncover aspects of your technique that you didn't even know you had yet to refine.

A good teacher helps with that, because they already know and can just point at it and say "Oh yeah, fix that." But, lacking a good teacher, its just something you have to do yourself. It can be hard, but refining your eye is just as important as practising with your hand. Even with a teacher, you'd want to do self-critique anyway. You will see things about your own art that even the best teacher won't, that's a guarantee.

>>6213649
The "you dont know what you dont know" is exactly why im very thankful for every comment i can get at this point. I dont know for how long im going to stick to drawing, but i hope it is something that i can stay with.

Studying perspective has made me realize how clueless I actually am about how big or small things actually are in real life, things I took for granted seem more interesting than before.

>>6213654
This is going to seem like a tangent,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE7dYhpI_bI
But this video is one of the most insightful videos on the subject of mastery, developing knowledge and what it even means to have skill in something I have ever seen. It was recommended to me randomly, and this Adam guy blew me away with his insights.
Nothing to do with art itself, but still highly recommended.

>>6213517
Lol maybe not specifically brony, but everyone I know definitely went through some sort of phase
>>6213519
Based magical girl fan. I was obsessed with Tokyo mew mew in elementary
>>6213563
Oh. That's kinda... Lmao. Real hater hours I guess

>>6213088
mutant chimp hand

This was a bitch to draw. The reference wasn't parallel or symmetric despite facing frontwards. I used too much brain power calculating and couldn't measure everything properly.
Can anyone guess who it is?

>>6213672
Smudged and looks much better now, but less like the ref.

I drew my favourite comicbook Villan

First time drawing a portrait. Left eye is a bit fucked but I have already tried fixing it a few times and think I'll just fuck it all up if I start erasing things. I think I'll be better off just moving on to the next reference

>>6213619
Are you feeling the form?

>>6213708
Post reference.

I lost icbros, i picked up loomis

>>6213713
it's over

>>6213713
>Illegally download Krenz's content
>First suggestion from him is buying Loomis Book

Ok, then.

I cannot believe constructoids do all this shit just to draw.... a fucking table lmao no wonder people who come here are ngmi incarnate

>>6213762
Its less about the table, and rather the technique/ability to stage a frame and navitage your way through 2D space with accurate measures, if thats what the project calls for. Its not actually about the table at all

Also doing those exercise has made it easier to sketch from memory/freehand

>>6213762
Kind of agree with you but can you pyw?

>>6213765
Did studying perspective improve your faces? Be honest.

>>6213748
which roomis book did he recommend? i picked up drawing heads and hands

>>6213626
Its a cartoon you fucking retard you are actually giving realism advice on a fucking cartoon these are the types of people calling you /beg/ on /ic/

>>6213770
Figure drawing and the one about composition, ilustrated something

I cannot believe builders use all of those tools to build.... a fucking house lmao

>>6213762
construction is the bread and butter of drawing, dunno why it makes you seethe so badly I bet you don't even draw

>>6213769
I have no idea, since I don't think I've ever studied or touched a single anatomy/figure drawing book
I imagine its made drawing the general shape of the head in any angle easier, but I very much doubt it has made anything for my ability to draw faces?
I can give it a try from imagination rq and see what happens, lol
Don' expect anything good, I've never been into drawing peeps

>>6213778
Oh yeah if you can.
Currently studying faces/portraits, and everyone keeps recommending that I study perspective for some reason. Very skeptical.

what the fuck happened to the /beg/ discord serb

>>6212331
https://discord.gg/CDbvgNbw

New beg server, old one got cucked by power bottoms

>discordshills

>trannycord

>>6213779
Nope, definiely didn't help. I can feel the volume so it helps for that, but without actually studying faces, I am left drawing non-sense

>>6213819
Pretty good for first time drawing faces though? Unless you just didn't study but already drew. Guess the people shilling perspective are talking out of their ass.

>>6213823
pyw

>>6213830
>>6213681

>>6213823
Yeah I am not new to drawing, all I am saying is that I've never actually sat down to study faces, mostly beeing doing PeterHan/Scott Robertson type of stuff so far cause I am more interested in Design

So if you ask me if Perspective helps, then I'd say ''It'll help you draw the basic form at any angle you want'', but actual expressions, face elements (nose, mouth, jaw, ears.. etc) shapes have to be studied separatedly, specially if you are after some unique style of drawing. I couldn't draw someone realistically because I don't even know the muscles of the face, but I could draw the ''sense of volume'' of a face in any angle
I hope that helps?

>>6213831
>pyw because he is slightly below or above anon in terms of skill.

LOL why are crabs like this? Is this inherent in their biological DNA?

>>6213835
it's the local schizo
just ignore him

>>6213833
Yeah thanks, helped. I think I'll do perspective when I want to do backgrounds.

>>6213841
I don't feel there's any difference between a background or a face desu, you could draw an entire forest on someone's eyebrow if you wanted to

But, whats your goal exactly?

>>6213845
My goal is to draw perfect anime faces at any angle using construction and measuring. To do that I will master realistic portraits first, because it's a clear way to track my progress and will force me to use several techniques. So I want to become good enough at realistic portraits to become a portrait artist as a side business while I study drawing to become a mangaka. I might even become an art teacher or commission artist.

>>6213849
Sure man, sounds like you got a plan down. Just remember to check out form building from Vilppu, not just life drawing, you'll need to start understand from memory aswell if you want to construct cute, soft and round anime gurls
Good luck with it, bruh

do not respond to the shiczo. i repeat, do not respond to the shiczo. keep in mind that he may pretend to be multiple different people, so you need to be extra careful in the hours after he posts his portraits. they are easily recognized by being entirely symbol drawn

>>6213852
>you'll need to understand form drawing**
Oops

>>6213855
Who is this mythical schizo? Is he the constructoid?

here we have the perfect example of what i mean by pretending to be someone else. if you have noticed, the anon who tells everyone to ignore perspective always mysteriously appear shortly after esdeathshiczo posts his drawings. remember, cool kids do not converse with shiczos

>>6213852
My plan is pretty straightforward. End game is mangaka, but on the way I will do other artist stuff as a side business because I want to change jobs and focus on art.
I tried Hampton gesture studies and don't really like gestures yet, but might do Vilppu when the time is right because I like his drawings.
I think my memory will improve by drawing minimum one portrait a day. Gradually I will draw more, but it consumes too much energy. I spend around 1 hour per portrait but feels like 5 hours of work. I think I'm progressing pretty well for self-learned, since I only started portraits a few days ago and already surpassed some DWRSB students. This was my portrait from two days ago

>>6213858
Ignore him. He's a sour crab, literally jealous of me. He posts this in every thread.

>>6213864
If you genuinely just got started, thats bretty gud
Keep at it, looking forwards to see where you go a year from now

>mfw loomeme actually works

>>6213882
I love you and you're gonna make it.

>>6213862
lol the samefagging is getting rampant mommy must have hurt his hand again.

>>6213879
He's been drawing for 3 years. He's a meme for a reason.

I think I'm getting the hang of Loomis heads

>>6213941
Based

>>6213941
Trad + no trannime, gigachad indeed

I'm hitting a wall on a piece I've been working on for awhile. Please let me know your thoughts, any improvements that can or can't be made, and what I need to focus on studying from here. Thanks in advance.

>>6213941
To be fair I still suck at extreme angles

>>6213947
Chill with the saturation, everything is too vibrant.

I'm feeling the asian genes flowing inside me.

>>6213955
How long have you been drawing? This looks professional. Seems you know a secret.

>>6213955
Pro. How did you learn this?

>>6213947
You're solid on texturing clearly, and honestly a very good sense for design. From a technical rendering standpoint, you're in a great place friend.

But, your anatomy is WAY off, both facial and body. Live model drawing sessions are the top recommendation for helping with that, they're usually about 15 or 20 bucks each. Barring that, anatomy, gesture and pose studies. This is a huge point of failure, work on it.

One thing to watch out for is how shadows can imply awkward angles, even if the actual shape of things is fine in theory. On the right knee, its obviously meant to be bent, but the way the light hits it and the cloth folds, it just looks like her leg is broken. Foot position is also messing that up.
Orienting the foot correctly relative to the leg in full body drawings is a pretty tough 3d thing to wrap your head around. Do some full leg anatomy studies, foot included, at the very least.

Would you mind if I quickly edited the work a bit to show you examples of what I mean?

>>6213964
By all means, thanks for the in-depth response. I did use pic related as reference, but obviously I deviated in quite a few places, both intentionally and due to my own lack of skill.

>>6213963
It's just colorpicked flats on a crookedly copied anime drawing chill dawg

>>6212331
hi retard here
just learning brushes and wanted to ask whitch one is best for scribbles/learning krita

>>6213963
I am not pro. I don't even draw everyday. Pic related is what I drew a few days ago when I don't have the asian genes activated. I think their is a secret to activating it but I'm trying to figure that out still.

>>6213947
>>6213967
done quickly with basic brushes so its still pretty far off from ideal, and no adjustments made to hands and arms you can figure that out, but hopefully it gives you something to compare to. Perhaps even, something to look at and still figure out what's off with it still.

Anatomy studies. That is where you are most heavily lacking. And yeah, as that anon stated above, your color selection is pretty aggressive in saturation. Experiment with some color palettes to find something more tasteful, perhaps.

>>6213963
>pro
He copied somebody else's drawing mate

>>6213992
I find it interesting that tranimeanon and the people who supposedly respond to his scribbles always have have the exact same ESL syntax as him.

>>6213950
Make sure to remember that your jaw has an underside/bottom plane, drawing just the skull may help you.
I also still struggle with EXTREME angles, getting the proportions right is the biggest problem tb h

How do I learn properly and overwrite bad habits without shutting down when I remember something that makes me seethe and stop everything I'm doing?

>>6213999
depends on the bad habit

>>6213368
Kill yourself you retard.
>is offered the very thing he wanted
>loses his shit like some cum guzzling faggot
It's a shame really, the sacrifices we made letting newfags into our threads.

>>6214000
>depends on the bad habit
symbol drawing

>>6213994
There is a difference between scribbles made by a schizo and scribbles made by asians. Get your eyes checked.

>>6214004
>by asians
those are just trannies anon

>>6214004
This is the inane shit I mean. Completely nonsensical samefag post by the same ESL retard.

>>6213986
Thanks again, I'll keep all this in mind for the future.

It's funny how I can get so caught up in things like "should I make the background less intense" and "how do I make her weapon look less cartoony" that I completely miss important anatomy stuff (chin placement, the painful angle of her wrist, general leg placement, etc.).

Saturation/color work is an ongoing process for me, so I'll definitely be paying attention to that going forward.

I'm looking into portrait studies.
Good place to start out for a /beg/?

>>6214002
That's not a habit lol that's just a starting point.

Do some life drawing of relatively complex things, but stare at them for a long ass time until you start drawing. Digest their shapes, absorb them, you'll eventually see the thing with new eyes and only at that point should you start work. "Symbol drawing" or whatever is more about training your eyes than your hand.

Honestly though its a fucking meme. I get a chuckle over people being concerned about it, since most artists end up deconstructing complex forms into simple shapes to cope with the fact they can't comprehend the whole thing easily. Is it not "symbol drawing", to pretend a human head is a boat? Hmm...

>>6214008
What, are you assuming there are easy faces for begs to start with? Just start with yourself.

>>6214007
>It's funny how I can get so caught up in things like "should I make the background less intense" and "how do I make her weapon look less cartoony"
Oh yeah that stuff can bog you down, but a great thing is that as long as you don't let yourself sink into the mire of minutia, the more you think about that type of stuff the more it becomes quick second nature. You'll get to a point where color theory and composition just become innate to you.

If you want to achieve that faster, take a few moments to work on purely abstract art. Literal nothing drawings of shapes and composition only, and use that as an excuse to exclusively experiment with color and the like. Its a fun exercise, very stress free and focused on building a skill a lot of newer artists don't cultivate at all. Having some variety in your practice sessions can help you dodge burning out, too.

>>6214009
>Digest their shapes, absorb them, you'll eventually see the thing with new eyes and only at that point should you start work
This is the part that trips me up. When I start deconstructing the form and actually get into artist mode, I get a fucking storm of intrusive, upsetting thoughts.

Let's say I want to learn photoshop for the purpose of putting male genital penises on female bodies
Where do I start with fundamentals?

>>6214020
>Let's say I want to learn photoshop for the purpose of putting male genital
Why is everyone doing the same shit?
Is this some sort of troon trend?

>>6214019
>When I start deconstructing the form and actually get into artist mode, I get a fucking storm of intrusive, upsetting thoughts.
Yoo that's some spiritual shit then. I can help with the drawing side of things, but as far as that goes I can't say. That's just something you'll have to work out, internally.

Try meditation. Like, for real, an hour of it a day.

>>6214020
If you're trying to learn photoshop for the first time you'll want to look up Ctrl dot paint videos.
If you're trying to figure out how a futa works, there's a futa general on /ic/ you can ask on.
>>6214021
Because futa is based

>>6214024
>Because futa is based
Not really, never met anyone into it that wasn't a porn addict

>>6214020
start by removing yourself from existence

>>6214025
That's the point, it's like an extreme form of lesbianism. Imagine not wanting to draw the things you want to coom too.

>>6214024
https://www.ctrlpaint.com/
You mean this? Thank you!
I had assumed that for this process I wouldn't have to grind drawing but eh, whatever it takes.

>>6214021
No one photoshops penises on photos of real girls. Everyone draws futa, yes, but this is not exactly what I want.

>>6214029
No problem futa-chad

Speaking of futa chinpo, how do you get good at drawing cylinders.

>>6214035
draw them in three-point perspective

>>6214012
No, this is about a live class.

>>6214036
Does Zheng really use 3 point perspective for his Ds all the time?

>>6214038
yeah bruh its the meta

>>6214039
>meta
>in drawing
kekd

>>6214049
ask how I know you're NGMI

>>6214055
i don't even need to ask how i know you're a faggot

My first time doing something more than just flat colors, I used hard round brush.
It was a lot of guess work, I had no reference for anything.
Is thee anything particular that I should focus on?

>>6214061
>first time trying to do math
>1+1=2
>do i need to know anything else or am i set?

nah u good bro dont try anything else.

>>6214061
learn to draw anime

>>6214061
do not learn to draw anime

I don't thing this board is trying to help people learn art.

>>6214075
what do you expect when the internet is riddled with "artists" which just shit out tranime and coomshit

>>6214061
the body is fine, the face is pretty unappealing so start by that

>>6214075
Not really. This place likes to groom aspiring schizos. You don't win even if you pyw. If you did pyw that's because the guy you are replying to is at the same level as you.

Critique?

I'm a new /beg/ that started drawing digitally recently, am I doing this correctly? I'm reading through Hampton after having only done a bit of drawabox and the Eviston book. Should I self-critique like I did or not? I don't know if I have good enough copying skills/vision to be able to say whether what I did was good.

>>6214091
Compare the image you referenced your drawing with by overlaying it on top, you should better see were you went wrong. You seem to be on the right track, better observational skills come with time spent practicing.

>>6212331
How to force yourself to draw? I had a long break and now I can start doing something. I just don't see the point in drawing because I know I can't draw something interesting and beautiful. Now my maximum is a flying head.
I don't see the point in learning because I know I can't progress. This is my first time. I just ask myself the question: why do I need all this?
Have you experienced this and how do you deal with it?

>>6214091
Self critique is good, if you never think about your work you won't know how to improve.

At this point focus on the the spine and the centerlines since they are the most fundamental parts of the structure.

Generally your centerlines are not offset enough for the angled view and you were way too lazy with the spine on the box copy.

Your box pelvis is not tall enough (even after correction) and with the misplaced spine bend it looks like it is thrusting forward instead of backwards.

>>6214110
hardest part of anything is always starting

>>6214110
>I know I can't progress.
False.
Look up practical ways of developing discipline, something a lot of people lack.

>>6212724
>Don't know why people are arguing with you
You must be new here. Like 90% of /ic/ is people who don't draw or really suck at drawing and only come here to try to drag others down to their level.

>>6214110
>How to force yourself to draw?
Find a local dominatrix and inform her of your being forced to draw fetish.

>I just don't see the point in drawing because I know I can't draw something interesting and beautiful.
Mentioned a similar thing to someone a bit ago, but art is a dance with beauty itself. Just because you can't do the dance well yet, shouldn't stop you from enjoying the contact.

>I don't see the point in learning because I know I can't progress. This is my first time. I just ask myself the question: why do I need all this?
Why did you fall in love with art? Remember that.
So what if you get stuck on a set of specific skills. Maybe you just can't get past some specific thing, fine. Toss that aside for a while. Maybe spend a bit of time doing totally abstract artworks, or just simple adorable animal cartoons that require few of the skills you're stressing about, or just draw stuff you love without care for the results. Maybe take a pencil and literally rip a page up with scribbles for fun. Shake the stress out of your bones for a bit.

Take a moment to enjoy the time you get to spend with your dance partner, like nobody is watching.

>>6214110
>How to force yourself to draw?
You shouldn't have to. Why do you want to draw? Or rather, why do you want to make yourself draw, since apparently you DON'T want to draw? If you have a particular goal that requires it as a secondary goal (eg you have design, film, game, etc ideas that you would struggle to convey without visual aid; though in all of those cases you could probably get by with photobashing) that's understandable, but I struggle to see the rationale if it's something you hate. It's not like it's a particularly marketable skill. I draw because I like to draw and want to draw. If I lack inspiration, I look for prompts. If I lack motivation, I take a break and work on a different skill.
>I just don't see the point in drawing because I know I can't draw something interesting and beautiful.
YET. With very few exceptions even master artists don't just shit out a great work of art in a couple of minutes; In fact, most take days or even weeks on one piece. If you are not yet at the skill level required to render a great piece, all your practice is just time spent working toward your first great piece. Even if you aren't keeping the strokes you're making in the long run, that's what they're contributing toward.

>>6214110
I post all my drawings on 4chan to stop caring about quality so much.

>>6214110
>>6214118
Also yeah
>There is no space in drawing to abuse yourself for not immediately mastering a difficult new skill.
Seconding this. Drawing and art is among the most difficult skills to master. It takes literal years of experience to get to a place where you are producing things that even come close to quality, and easily a full decade of constant experience to become a "Good" artist.

Don't fret slow progress. Just continue making progress, no matter how slow it will seem.

>>6214133
>With very few exceptions even master artists don't just shit out a great work of art in a couple of minutes;
Hurts to say, but yeah. Most beginners will spend what, ten or thirty minutes on a full piece?
And most pieces they will compare themselves too and say "Man, I suck" probably took somewhere between 4 or 10 or even 50 or more hours of highly skilled work to complete.

Crazy to see some new people to art making those comparisons and berating themselves for it.

>>6214142
I wouldn't put it quite that way because when you're a beginner iteration is more important than spending 50 hours polishing a turd. You want to see improvement from piece to piece within a similar timeframe, and shorter, more frequent sessions are better for that.

>>6214144
>I wouldn't put it quite that way because when you're a beginner iteration is more important than spending 50 hours polishing a turd
Oh no for certain, beginners don't have even close to the skill set to where they need 50 hours to exploit all their skills.
The brutal part I'm saying is, many beginners look at a piece with 50 hours of work put into it, compare their fresh-faced newfriend piece that took half an hour to finish to it, and berate themselves for theirs not being as good. i've seen it happen a lot.

new

>>6214150
>>6214150
>>6214150

>>6214150
>>6214150
>>6214150

>>6214133
>I draw because I like to draw and want to draw.
I don't know how to explain, but I can't say the same. The problem is that I don’t get any pleasure, but I don’t want to quit because I wanted to make something beautiful with my own hands.
Maybe because I get more pleasure from the result, and not from the process. My results are mediocre. In any case, thanks to everyone for the advice and sorry for the trouble, but this is probably a serious reason to think about the advisability of drawing.

>>6214154
>The problem is that I don’t get any pleasure, but I don’t want to quit because I wanted to make something beautiful with my own hands.
You're going to have to come to terms with the fact that creating something as beautiful as you desire to create with your own hands, requires a decade of constant practice.

>>6214158
This. It takes time

>>6214089
Looks like runescape, I like it.
Is the sword supposed to be seethrough?

>>6212333
ngl I didn't spend much time on it, the bees looked like a pain.

>>6214221
gmi

>>6214202
No, I blurred it cause it felt like it was taking the focus away from the helmet too much

tried drawing from my imagination that wasn't a body floating in space

Any advice appreciated.

>>6213590
Imagine getting your 12 year old cousin or whatever to quit drawing because you fell for a meme

>>6214112
What's this from?

>>6214136
>and easily a full decade of constant experience to become a "Good" artist.
Define "good".
I've seen many people plateau and stagnate over the course of following them for around a decade and then some. For example, CSR, or for a smaller artist, sub-res.

Posting to crosslink somewhere else to not interrupt an image dump please ignore.

>>6217041

>>6217043

>>6217048

I dindu nuffin

>>6212333
That was fun but I'm still a huge beginner

>>6217125
never sent it like a dumbass :(