/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6204203
If you're not finding anything it's likely because they don't feel any way about it
There's no one telling you that you have to grind perspective 12 hours a day. Professionals use a variety of tools (grids, 3d, references) to get work done- Few of them are plotting out perspective grids by hand on a regular basis; AI is just another tool.

>>6204219
>There's no one telling you that you have to grind perspective 12 hours a day.
Yeah I know, but its by doing that I've made the most progress with art, since its the foundation to everything else, I've noticed it has even improved my ability to see images in my head
> Professionals use a variety of tools (grids, 3d, references) to get work done- Few of them are plotting out perspective grids by hand on a regular basis; AI is just another tool.
Not opposed to any of it. It just seems AI has gotten so good with Mid Journey that it can produce better at than the TOP pros that had to train for 10 to 20 years to get to that level of skill..

What's the point? Are people still going to pay artists for anything when they can churn out 100s of iterarions of an idea on a bot?

>>6204203
>what do guys that make a living out of selling you overpriced art instruction say about their potential competitors?

>>6204230
Wait lmao wait, did you get into art expecting to make money? Hahahaha oh no no

>>6204203
Pro here. My bloody art director is using it to direct us at the studio. I feel like his job just became a game and he doesn't deserve his 6 figure salary anymore.

>>6204252
So your art director is using AI prompts to decide the art style of the game?? Do you feel AI will replace you tho?
>>6204246
Whats wrong with making money wih art? I am willing to draw 12 hours a day for a couple years if I can get a low entry level job in the industry desu
>>6204239
I hate what you are saying, but mostly cause its probably true and it does hurt. Exhausted of people making a killing selling the dream. Never know who you can trust

>>6204257
>Whats wrong with making money wih art?
Nothing, just don't get into art expecting to make money because 90% of the time you won't make any. Even if you draw extremely well and have a degree from a prestigious art/design school, the market is extremely competitive and the jobs are few and far between. Even if you miraculously get a job the pay is shit, you'll probably make more money being a garbage man or something. That's not even considering all the times technology has disrupted the art world in the last 100 years

>>6204246
>>6204266
really, begs have a hard time getting this through their thick skulls: art jobs are statistically the worst paid in the market. pursuing an art career just because of the money is an oxymoron

>>6204266
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I also question the utility of believing that even if its true. You are better off hurting yourself by failing, and actually letting the motivation from wanting to make it guide you to grind, than gatekeeping yourself by the fear of trying and failing

At the end of the day, if you've been doing 12 hours a day for some years doing fundies, you are going to git gud on way or another. Thats my mindset anyway

>>6204275
Are you suggesting you can't even make a living with art?

>>6204230
This is only a real issue if you're already a professional. Art dropped in value once it became easily accessible and the only real way to make money is to move with the times and adapt.
If you don't see the point in making art without external compensation/validation then you shouldn't do it because it's not an efficient money/time/effort ratio.

Imo yes, people will always want customized art because that is arts only actual value. These will be few and far between as the AI becomes more accessible as well but it also means that physical works will retain value.

>>6204266
You can make good money in art but if the passion isn't there then you won't. It's a two tier gate.

>>6204285
you could, obviously, but there's a much better chance in any other career
worst paid jobs are always the ones that people would do out of passion, ie in computer science you are likely to make more money working at databases than working at videogames
it's just how the market works: offer and demand and stuff

>>6204257
The style/shape design etc was decided on before AI came up. But all our greybox paintovers are informed by AI for mood/texture/lighting.
I think its a good tool for photobashing. It does feel like my painting skills are not being utilized so much any more. AI won't replace me(for a few years at least), But I can see team sizes shrinking as we are getting to the end result so much faster.

>>6204353
So which fundamentals are taking priority now if painting/lighting ins't? Perspective? Design? Stoytelling?

>>6204364
not that guy, but you DO need good lighting, perspective, composition, etc fundamentals to photobash efficiently. even painting, since you are likely to need some minor adjustments

>>6204383
So, how would AI take over exactly if you still need artists to refine the generated prompts?

Am I missing something?

>>6204386
the other guy said it reduces the man-hours required, ergo, less job positions. sounds about right to me

>>6204275
>art jobs are the worst paid
Not even close. A quick Google says artists make 60-100k a year at most decent companies. That's well above minimum wage.

Art might require a lot of work for relatively low reward, but its nothing compared to shit like historians or even biologists who struggle to get a job without a PhD.

Tons of people need artists and if you're willing to push yourself in new fields you can easily find a job that pays decently for what is a fairly cushy job.

>>6204398
EVERYBODY wants a job in arts. The market is over saturated. If you can't handle the level of competition, and putting crazy hours on the job, you'll never make it into "decent companies"
It's not my opinion: just ask anyone with a job in a serious company. Shit like these new AI things will only make things worse

I agree with Carlos, AI will make us retarded

>>6204479
is he the schizo ai doomer poster?

>>6204479
I'd love to know from someone like that which skills they feel new gen artists should focus on if AI is truly going to make artists own level of skill in draftmanship pointless

>>6204498

For concept art, yes, those skills will be useless.

Outside of that, no.

>>6204498
Plumbing

it's clear that the companies pushing AI just do it to lower wages. Currently a senior concept artist or environment artist makes 120k+ usd/yr . This is similar to senior devs in most tech companies. They are also pushing AI assitant tools to "help" with coding.

The big companies only think of profit you have to remember that, they just want cheap labor with a minimal loss of quality. That's the ideal world for them.

Job losses are one thing that comes out of this, but it's also pushing people to get lazy and not learn the fundamentals. This is why animation suffered a lot recently, the bulk of the work is done by a program.

AI can be a good tool for an artist but for a company it is just a way to lower wages and to produce more content quicker.

>>6204479
Carlos on suicide watch.

>>6204547
>This is why animation suffered a lot recently, the bulk of the work is done by a program.
Does being an artist that understand the program but also studied the fundamentals put you at an advantatge then? Because if that's the case, thats a reason, perhaps more so than ever to actually grind fundies
>>6204550
Yeah, I can't even do anything remotely similar to that, kek

Kinda depressing seeing everyone puting freelance illustration as a dead job now ngl

>>6204567
What are the top freelancers saying? Are they freaking out?

>>6204568
No idea desu. Almost all I follow are Japanese. I do have seen some smaller artists getting sad about their own work tho.
Also seen this: https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1555994385707200514

"whoa that's pretty cool"
*continues drawing*

>>6204612
>"whoa that's pretty cool"
>*continues drawing*
>*Slowly gets replaced and comissions stop coming in*

>6204637
Amazing combination of idiocy and lack of knowledge about AI, please don't post again.

>6204649
Amazing combination of idiocy and lack of knowledge about AI, please don't post again.

>>6204637
>"This cannot be replicated using machine learning"
>"the artist is irreplaceable"
O V E R

So.. is this really it anons? no more art caree. I don't have other skills, maybe I'll just learn to tie a noose one of these days.

>>6204676
>''Such instance does not exist''
>''The artist is replaceable''
O V E R

>>6204677
I don't know, I can't find any Pros really talking about it much. If anyone does, please send it my way I'd love to know their thoughts.

Then again, Pros are not law, I am sure many of them will be seething to no end

>>6204203
STEM student here. First of all, AI is barely implemented anywhere (not just art), and just remains as a "proof of concept". There are no proper AI tools, whether its engineering or art. People often compare it to photobash, and yeah, generating images is cool just by itself, but there are a lot of problems and i don't think they are easy to solve

1) Its useless for anything creative. I dont mean it as a "its not a real art because its sovlless", but if you don't have a specific thing you looking for in your database, you wont get it. So a lot of fantasy\sci-fi stuff will require a lot of creative input from a human. And desu, realistic stuff will require a historian or something anyway, so at best AI can just make things happen faster in terms of concept art
2) Free-hand editing is impossible. You cant adjust positions of objects, you cant turn them, or their parts. And making that possible would require a much more abstract approach (like OOP) and its just not happening within 10 years at the very least.
bonus point: AI still sucks ass and you can easily see mistakes like on pic related

If I'm dead honest, i don't think you can even solve those problems with current approach\technoogy\knowedge\math\whatever, but artist pretending that AI cant replace them are delusional boomer. >>6204547 is probably right though. Even in engineering you still need a good understanding of fundamentals to make a good use of AI, so i doubt that art will be any different. It will murder a lot of jobs though so be ready to adapt i guess

Drawbros, can i save my ass if i learn animation?
Not for a job but for comissions?

>>6204738
Is it for porn?

I love Perspective, bros

>>6204479
>training the ai
ai basically trains itself today

>>6204717
>STEM student
ie nobody who knows nothing
fuck off

>>6204744
that's not the camera, that's your feet, and only because 1pp distorts everything. that retarded crap you made is fucking useless, irl you'd use fSpy and some 3d software to get shit done

>>6204823
The camera and the feet is the same exact thing in a top view, since top views don't show height..
Did fSpy and 3D software teach you to be wrong?

>>6204823
>that's not the camera, that's your feet, and only because 1pp distorts everything. that retarded crap you made is fucking useless, irl you'd use fSpy and some 3d software to get shit done
Translation: I don't want to learn perspective, and seeing others doing it makes me anxious about my choices. Please stop.

>>6204823
absolute state of tracers

>>6204717
>stem student
Stopped reading

>>6204744
Try it with this image

>>6204937
Sure, give me a couple mins

>>6204937
>>6204948
Here

>>6204960
Lol

>>6204717
While this doesn't show rotation or shifting of objects, Based on this clip I don't understand why it woulds be a such a huge stretch to include.

>>6204997
oh, you meant turn and move them in 3d space? yeah, I can see why that would be an issue.

>>6205000
There is another AI that turns 2D images into 3D models... tho, Don't remember the name.. pifuhd?
ir pifu3d? something like that

>>6205004
character creation gan turnes drawings into 3d models

>>6204479
based

>>6204842
>>6204849
>>6204897
lmao samefaggot imbecile: THE CAMERA HEIGHT IS AT THE VIEWPOINT
how can you be so fucking retarded mr i-love-perspective?

Have you ever thought that anyone who matter just don't care? The only people making a fuss out of this AI shit are /ic/ and techlets

>>6205746
they DO care, but they won't waste time crying about it, instead they're looking for ways of incorporating AI in their workflows right now

>>6205753
No one does you retarded shill. Pros don't care especially because to get a good drawing isn't about making something that looks right in begs eyes. It'd be infinitely easier to just draw or paint from scratch instead of manually adjusting every fucking pixels. Liquify is more useful to actual artists that generated art will ever be.

>>6205760
retarded take

>>6205763
>t. has to look at nonsensical jumble to be "creative" and know where to put lines

>>6205753
>>6205763
seethe more permabeg ai shill
pyw bet you dont even draw

>>6205753
>>6205763
This
No need to argue with low iq luddites AI deniers:
they will take care of removing themselves from the market in a short time

>>6205710
The absolute cope, jesus christ.
You understand the station point is an top view ortrographic right? There is no height represented from that view dude, the camera, the eye, the feet. Its all the same point as far as you can tell from there. Because there is no more visual information.
Proof of that is literally in here >>6204565
Which shows a top and side view. Pay attention to how the human head aligns with the feet in the top view...

>>6204203
Have you actually tried an AI service? Most of what they produce is trash. It's only good for inspiration, not making finished products.

>>6205876
listen stupid imbecile faggot: the camera IS the viewpoint, and the camera is not in the floor, obviously
the only special feature about the point you were so proud of finding out is that it is precisely UNDER the camera, ie your feet. you can also locate all kinds of points: over the camera, at the right, at the left, etc, but they're NOT the camera location, retard
i don't hate you, kid, but you're completely wrong and don't have right to be so entitled and vocal with your ignorance. just learn to use any 3d software and forget this embarrassing incident

>>6204744
what the fk is a camera and why even bother finding it

>>6205943
Because by finding it you can actually analyze a composition/art by a master you like, find out things like the type of frame used and the camera lense type. You can also use it to correctly draw things to scale if you are going to do concept art for a vehicle/house/ or anything else that requires tight measuring
The distance from the center of vision to the camera is literally the physical distance between you(the camera) and the object. I personally love the thought of being able to know EXACTLY how far apart I am from something I came up from my imagination. Its just cool as fuck.

>>6205923
>listen stupid imbecile faggot: the camera IS the viewpoint, and the camera is not in the floor, obviously
Are you incapable of understanding that in top view there is no way to distinguish if the camera is on the floor or not?
The same way you can't tell depth from a front view?

You are getting hanged up on something kinda silly, and acting like a sperg for no reason. Go to your cute 3D software, and verify. Kek

Are the constant AI shill threads made by bots or something? If so for what purpose?

>>6205963
>>6205943
The camera or station point can also be used to find other cool stuff, like the your cone of vision, to avoid or purposefully include distortion in your composition. And other things like 45 degree measuring points which let you get perfect squares into your composition. Squares are super useful when doing more technical or precision stuff like vehicles, machinery, mechs, houses.. etc

>>6205966
Just to flex on human weaklings
AI's are the new Nazis, and these ones are actually supreme (and extremely racist)

>>6205970
nice olson gains

>>6205995
Thanks bro, hands down one of the most useful teachers I've seen so far. Having the confidence to scale things back into space makes sketching a lot more fun and stress free

>>6205963
i can explain it for hours, but it won't get through your thick skull: there's nothing special about the floor. i can locate INFINITE points like that one in 1pp. stop mixing your eyes with your feet
i swear you: if someday you finally get it someday, you'll feel pretty silly
>>6205967
>The camera or station point
the camera is NOT the station point, duh
>>6205995
judging by the retarded comments on perspective itt, i will avoid that book at all costs

>>6206002
Why are you drawing pony shit

>>6206015
>i can explain it for hours
I doubt it, in fact, go ahead and post your work

>>6206019
>pyw
that's your "argument"? okay, i'll take it like like your admission of defeat
i bet you feel pretty dumb now, huh?

>>6206017
Pony is what got me into drawing, its fun to me

>>6206020
I took your lack of showing me proof of how I am wrong in a 3D software that you aren't arguing with good intentions. All I said, and I repeat. Is that FROM A TOP VIEW, you cannot tell the station point from the camera apart, since they exist in the same axis and no height information is available.
This is a fact, bro. You are getting hanged up on nothing

>>6206023
>FROM A TOP VIEW!!!!!
that's a completely different story. it works only in that particular case, but obviously not from any other view
now, the point you show here >>6204744 is not from a top view, that's a 1pp -seen from the front, NOT THE TOP- and the point you found there is where you feet, or the tripod, or whatever, would be located in that particular perspective
do you realize that you are mixing two completely different perspectives in the same picture? does the red HORIZON LINE make any sense in a top view?

>>6206037
>that's a completely different story. it works only in that particular case, but obviously not from any other view
Its not really tho, because the key point to understand here, is that when you draw your ground plane, station point, and measuring line, you are always doing it from Top view and projecting that into space, regardless of whether it is 1pp, 2pp, 3pp or curvaliniar perspective.
Like you said, it is obvious that the drawing I placed the perspective over is in 1PP perspective, however the station point (is always draw in top view).
-
>do you realize that you are mixing two completely different perspectives in the same picture?
I am not, in Linear perspective you begin with top view and transfer it into your desired perspective. Thats literally how architects go from a ortographic diagram of a house and draw it.. like pic related
>does the red HORIZON LINE make any sense in a top view?
They are two unrelated concepts

Look at pic related,
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-440af515b1f2d1a98654805574b0b6f0.webp

>>6206046
>>6206037
Here is another pic can could be useful. If you don't understand it, google ''Projecting ortographics into perspective'' or do Erik Olson's course
The whole reason the station point is in top view is because it makes it possible to transfer scales accurately, which is the whole reason Perspective was even invented to begin with

>>6206046
>>6206049
there's no projection in your original pic, kid
you're just confused and mixing shit left and right
the standing point makes sense in 1pp because that's where your feet would be located if you expand your canvas down there, but nobody does it cause everything would be very distorted. same story with your 45º vp. they're pretty much equivalent, and both are located in a circle with center in the vp, which is the actual camera location
try lo learn practical, concrete stuff first, cause whatever you read about perspective clearly went over your head

>>6206054
>there's no projection in your original pic, kid
And? You could use what I did to create the projection if you cared enough to do so?
>>6206054
>you're just confused and mixing shit left and right
I don't think you have any idea what you are on about at all, if you did, I'd have expected you to provide some proof, which you haven't at all
>try lo learn practical, concrete stuff first, cause whatever you read about perspective clearly went over your head
Kek

>>6206063
the proof is this >>6204744 but you're too dense to understand it

1. your picture is in 1pp perspective
2. sp is NOT the camera in 1pp
3. sp is in the camera position only in a top view
4. your lines don't indicate a top view in any way. even more: they include a horizon line, which completely excludes the possibility of being a top view

the only way you can defend your retarded claim is to prove that your lines were intended to show a top view, but you can't. there's no point in keep arguing about it

>>6206075
Wrong, the whole reason the station point is in top view is exactly for the reason you mention. To avoid retarded levels of distortion when drawing the station point..
Come on dude, do I have to draw it out? Give me a couple minutes and I'll just show you

>>6206080
go ahead, i'm intrigued

Is it just me or this constructoid shit is extremely retarded and pointless unless you are an autistic pony fucker who for some reason gets hard at the thought of knowing exactly where his imaginary pony is from his point of view

>>6206085
thats what i was thinking man
these guys just finished erik olson's course and are high on the knowledge

>>6206083
Here is proof the station point is top view, as you can see by having the station point as a top view you can bring down the scale of things such as the tiles into orthographic, which makes measuring way easy. The way you have to think about is that once the lines coming from the vanishing point forwards, you can create a barrier that passes onto top view for ease of measure. You could probably even get the right scale of the tiles and make an approximation of how big they are compared to other objects in the room
>>6206085
Depends where you are headed, I am personally more interested in Design and projects that require more tehcnical perspective, like concept art for houses, landscapes, vehicles, weapons.. etc
Not Illustrastion
>>6206094
Kek, I am on week 4 out of 33.. I've got 140 hours of videos to go through
>autistic pony fucker who for some reason gets hard at the thought of knowing exactly where his imaginary pony is from his point of view
Yeah? Feel free to post your work

>>6206108
Here is the proof

>>6206109
huh? the proof is that you half assed a top view that wasn't there over your 1pp original shit?
i'm lost, if anything you just proved that your original drawing was wrong

>>6206023
>>6206020

Stop bitching and show the work both of you, the better one wins the argument

>>6206002
Nice bro, does the course have a torrent?

>>6206111
congrats, you just proved to yourself why the station point is drawn in a top view(to avoid that retarded distortion and allow for accurate scales from ortho to perspective

>>6206115
yeah, its in cgpeers and I imagine its in the Anon videocontent thread, its Erik Olsons Perspective 1 from New masters academy
if you cant find it, Ill try to help you qwhen I get home in 2hours

>>6206113
OP here, Ill post when I get home

>>6206121
>IT WAS ALWAYS A TOP VIEW BECAUSE OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE TOO DISTORTED
???? the "retarded distortion" was part of your 1pp original drawing. it looks weird, but it's perfectly valid in any 3d software, and can even be used for some trippy effect or something
funny hill were you chose to die, anyway. i realize you're just shitposting by now. good night

>>6206130
Kek, your entire saga its proof of why fundamentals will always be relevant even if AI becomes paft of the workflow.
Just think, why would someone want to draw gigantic distortion in a 2D sketch when trying to quickly transfer scales around, when you can just do a top view, plan and accurately measure things. You dont see the issue clearly because you are trying to solve a 2D issue with 3D software, which is where uou mudt have placed your aytention, and its become a crutch.
Leaving to bed without posting your work?
Kek

>>6206130
Kek, your entire saga its proof of why fundamentals will always be relevant even if AI becomes part of the workflow.
Just think, why would someone want to draw gigantic distortion in a 2D sketch when trying to quickly transfer scales around, when you can just do a top view, plan and accurately measure things. You dont see the issue clearly because you are trying to solve a 2D issue with 3D software, which is where you must have placed your attention, and its become a crutch for you.
Leaving to bed without posting your work?
You should admit you were not aware you could go from any projected perspective back into orthographic view, and move on.

>>6206144
good night, retard

>>6206146
Sweet dreams, Princess

>>6206113
To Anons wondering, the person arguing with me is not actually wrong, it is true that the camera and floor are two different things, (except in top view, like I stated). The misundersanding comes from him not realizing that in Linear perspective to draw the station point in top view.
Why?
Because that allows you to remove perspective, which allows you to.
1. Avoid distortion
2. Make plans with accurate measures
3. Find your field of view, 45 degree measuring points

I hope that makes it clear for the Anons watching this that are curious and do not understand the value of doing these technical drawings.
Where would this be useful to apply?
1. Anywhere, really. But it mostly allows to design anything from a city to a anime pussy, then project it accurately into any perspective you want to scale.
2. Coolest thing of it all, once you do these a few times you grow an intuition for it and your free hand sketches become a lot easier to do.

>>6206015
>there's nothing special about the sp in 1pp
Retard.

>>6206109
>>6206197
If all this is right, why are there 20+ square tiles in one direction visible in the painting, when according to your top view, there are only 12 from the station point to the far wall?

>>6208174
The tiles being accurate or not (they aren't, I made them up) does not mean it can't be done. I didn't because the whole point of me doing that was just to show the station point was intended to be a top view
If you wanted to do it accurately, then you could actually count at the tiles in at least 1 of the visble rows, the multiply.