/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6166688
draftsmen is super fucking boring and stan shilling for fine art schools after they fucked him over makes him the ultimate cuck

>>6166688
lol so based
i watch many hours and learned so many
buy his course friends

>>6166688
I hate these dues. they are just one big commercial for each other anytime they open their mouth. Shit is also so overpriced.

something bothers me about this art style

>>6166688
i learned a lot from their free videos

>>6166735
Get off the site Pronko

I liked the podcast. Was sad to see it ended

>>6166688
Who did this image?

>>6167221
why it end?

I like marshall, especially as a teacher, prokopenko just doesn't seem to understand that he was good at monetizing art, not making or teaching it

>>6167305
The level of crabbing on /ic/ to suggest Proko wasn't able to make art, lmao.

>>6167305
he peaked a few years ago. He can make ligitimately great art, capturing gesture and rendering are his strengths. It's just unfortunate that he's ass at drawing from imagination, but blame jeff watts for making him a reference autist

>>6167496
Proko art sucks because he is a spoiled rich brat who had no life goals and never had to struggle for anything. His parents bankrolled his entire life including art school and once he graduated he thought being an artist would be just as easy. While he did have some minor success in the early 2000s, he quickly faded into mediocrity as learning resources became available to the masses and younger artists surpassed him. He hasn't sold work in years and it's by luck that he became popular on Youtube.

It was a smart move for him to make a career as an influencer but the Draftsman podcast revealed to the world how retarded the guy actually is. All he ever brought to the table were dumb jokes and he admitted in many episodes how he didn't understand art. Just look at his portfolio. Again, it was pure luck that he made it this far. The podcast was always doomed to fail. Marshall is a really outdated artist who, in his own words, struggled to get consistent illustration work when he was younger because he was too slow. He seems to be a decent teacher but clearly not good enough to carry an entire show on his own.

>>6167543
>never had to struggle for anything
He definitely did/does depend on his wealthy-ish family for his art career, but he also talked about working 16-18 hour days when he started the proko channel (teaching at the watts atelier, studying, commissions, and making the videos). He could've neet-ed his way through life but he chose to build a mini art empire that he spends most of his waking life on, and now with the addition of having a family of his own.
I won't deny that he's a retard, but at the very least he's a retard that's not afraid to hit a brick wall until his hand breaks off

>>6167543
nicie fanfic, saved

>>6167543
the fuck? try being an immigrant fresh of the boat, having to learn a new (and extremely shitty) language, grinding day and night at watts (being so good to be promoted to teacher), selling works, blowing up on youtube.. you call that not struggling? you don't know the first thing about hard work

>>6167543
oh and plenty of works were sold during the ukraine donation drive, dumbass

His art sucks because the art he studied and developed is one made for teaching different contemporary artists entering "the industry." It's designed to be fucking bland. Their idea of "fundamentals." Artists think it is all fundamentals and they can just switch off their habits to pursue their own styles afterwards, but the kind of works you produced in your most formative student years do stay with you.

>>6166694
I don't watch this, explain.

>>6167496
Looks like a sort of Huston/Watts combo. Looks amazing

>>6167633
hi proko

>>6167764
The idea is that your habits improve your art quality.

>>6167496
so much potential , imagine if he did full size paintings like that

>>6167496
Not Jeff's fault. He's always talking about not being a xerox machine photocopyist and "fixing" the model by drawing things better than how you see them.

>>6166688
What's the deal with the old dude?
I saw him on a few podcasts with sinix, but he just seems like an annoying and obnoxious fag.
The way he talked sounded like he doesn't draw either.

>>6167819
it goes something like this
>Proko likes art
>Gets an internship at Sony while he was still in highschool to animate for Everquest II
>Because of this he's well known for a short time as a sudo-prodigy in animation from an early age
>Johns Hopkins University publishes an article he wrote about working as a professional animator as a teenager, making him even more well known in that circle
>FFW a few years
>Proko attends Watts Atelier University of the Arts in California
>Get's crushed with student debt, all while his professors crush his love of animation and literally brainwash him into changing his major
>Years of animation classes wasted, he starts over and studies fine art
>At this point, he's well into his late 20s, and with no one hiring fine art painters (obviously) and no way to pay his debt to Watts, he enters an agreement with the University.
>Proko agrees to teach fine art at Watts for many years as a way to atone for his student debt (which by now was massive)
>Wastes even more time doing fuck all
>Finally, in his 30s, and with no other skills to make a living other than teaching, he creates the Proko channel on youtube.

>FFW to Draftsmen podcast
>People constantly ask Proko if they should go to art school, and even after everything that happened to him, he can never bring himself to tell people to stay the fuck away.

It's why his art seems soulless and he can't bring himself to make anything from imagination, his love of art and animation was killed in college and replaced with generational dogma from old miserable men who did the same.

>>6167496
maybe I need to start rethinking my view on proko. Might pick up a few courses after all

>>6168601
>Johns Hopkins University publishes an article he wrote
sauce? can't find it

>>6166688
Proko isn’t a designer. Marshal is. His specialty was making perspective digestible for n00bs.

>>6168797
The article specifically was for the Johns Hopkins magazine series "Imagine" that ran from 1993-2018.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagine_(educational_magazine)

It was sort of a career pathway magazine for teenagers to read and familiarize themselves with jobs they may have not considered. Proko wrote an article for an issue of Imagine covering art-related careers, and specifically focused on working as an animator for video games. Archives of the series do exist, but they are behind a paywall. I'm not sure which issue Proko wrote in, (because he never discloses that, possibly so he can shut that chapter of his life, I wouldn't blame him) but I'm guessing it was during the winter of 2004 or 2005.

Here's an archive of Imagine from 2011 covering math-related careers if you're interested in what the magazine looked like.
>https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/imagine/20110304_MIV/index.php#/p/8

>>6168601
>watts
>massive debt
dilettante (née tonto) detected. watts courses are $199 a pop and the best value you'll ever get from online instruction

>>6168853
>implying Proko took online classes for 7 years
he obviously did on campus training, this paired with the fact that he mentioned in Draftsmen that he felt like he had no choice but to teach at Watts because of all the money he owed.

>>6168864
>make art school
>force students into crippling debt
>get paid with loan money while getting free teachers
kek watts is a genius

>>6168601
mAn this is sad his dreams were crushed and now he monopolized the art industry having other big artists on his podcast this Is like a villain origin story

>>6168601
Well, is not like animators are well know for having health jobs and swimming in money. If you think about it proko only found sucess for getting to art school ,becoming a teacher and being the realism zealot he is.

About his skills, yeah, in the past a few years ago his drawings from animation and more stylized work kinda sucked ass, but in 2022 I don't think that's a problem anymore, at least for the little I saw, I don't really care much for proko and his fans are kinda trash.

I like his drawings anyway, I don't think they are souless by no extent of the actual meaning of the world, I just think he is a nigger.

>>6169036
>drawings from imagination
Fixed.

>>6168601
>Watts Atelier
Jeff Watts is the father of all can't-draw-from-imagination. Proko sadly inherited this. Jeff admitted himself in a youtube video while doing critique that he's not very good with drawing from imagination but that he's a skilled "technician", massive red flag.
Just look at the shit in picrel

>>6167633
go back to your own website, proko

I bet $1000 Proko himself is actually lurking here and responsible for some threads and posts, this thread included.

>>6169043
looks great to me. who cares about drawing from imaginaation anyway, everyone uses refs

>>6169276
Based!!
Jk, NGMI ;)

>>6168505
That's not proko that's Patrick Jones.

>>6167496
looks like a burn victim

I see a lot of people here talking about Proko, but where does /ic/ stand on Marshall?

>>6169434
Marshall seems like a pretty cool guy

He's like the grandad I wish I had - in one of the podcasts he said something about taking your parter on a date to that museum with dead people and when you look at your partner they've never looked more alive

It really resonated with me and I couldn't stop thinking about it and how I view my own wife

>>6169043
I actually studied under him on and off, when I could afford it. He can draw from imagination as good or better than Frazetta. He just loves reference.
He’s more focused on one procedure that starts with reference. Even encouraging as much plagiarism as you can get away with. And totally discouraged any sort of stylization or originality. Because it was too subjective for his teaching procedure. Which is a disgrace. Didn’t have to be that way.
I never got along with him over that, but NGL, the Riley Method is insanely helpful for fleshing out a stylized underdrawing from imagination.
Pic Rel is my only file small enough to post here. But you can probably see Jeff’s influence.
I have a lot of respect for him and he taught me a lot. But his philosophy holds his students back.

>>6169542
I don't Jeff's influence in your work but it reminds me of Proko's Kangaroo.

>>6169549
Never saw Stan’s animal drawings. But yeah, we both handle a pencil and block in shadows the same, because that’s what Jeff drills into your reflexes.
I just walked in there with an aggressive style and held onto it. Not sure what Stan was drawing when he walked in there. At the time he was the animation guy. I believe he wanted to be a cop of all things.
Honestly none of the students I knew did much original work without an assignment, unless they were at the R* sweatshop.
BTW, RDR wouldn’t look like a goddamn painting, if Jeff wasn’t a couple freeway exits away. So you gotta give him his due.

>>6169043
>Just look at the shit in picrel
Are you unironically retarded?

>>6169564
>RDR
what's that?

>>6169593
Maybe, or maybe I simply have higher standards.

>>6168216
If what you are most comfortable doing are bland studies, that is what you will do by default. Their idea is that it is an objective style that you can tweak later on, but that is wrong in many ways. It has its own particular stylistic choices. There are many self-proclaimed objective styles that still show which school they follow, even after the artist tries hard to get rid of them.

>>6169596
Red Dead Redemption.
If you’re going to play one game in your life, make it that.

>>6169434
He's effectively the tard wrangler of the two since proko comes off as a living, breathing fucking fedora

>>6169564
>Never saw Stan’s animal drawings. But yeah, we both handle a pencil and block in shadows the same, because that’s what Jeff drills into your reflexes.
Hmmmmm Yeah yeah you should see Proko's Kangaroo then, you can see the reflexes drilled very well.

>>6169665
Holy shit, that’s a yikes. Cards on the table….I’m a total newfag here. Had no idea he was that far gone.
Anyways, I don’t think I’ll be posting anything on this board ever again.

>>6169564
https://youtu.be/4h4-2HRHaHI

Those who can't create art, will teach.

>>6168601
Didn't he say he did not like (3D) animation (with maya) when he worked at a game studio or something? Or was that part of the brainwashing?

>>6169542
This doesn't look anything like what Watts does. It looks like some generic graphic design/illustration stuff.

>>6169043
I like the colors, but the painting has too much going on for what you're given. I can spot probably 3 focal points, but at each we're given not much of pose or prominent rendering to go for. I enormously respect Jeff Watts' skills in figure drawing. But the composition here should be far simpler - 1 focal point - and that focal point should demonstrate the power of his figurative drawing.

>>6169665
pyw

>half the episodes are sponsored by some online mental health thing

I'm not taking those meds, Stan

>>6169793
I believe he got into art because of his love for animation. I think once he got to Watts he was convinced that animating "for a kids game" was childish and somehow beneath him, and he "grew out of it" but it's pretty obvious he enjoyed art the most when he was animating with 3d.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN5ZlqfIF3M
Proko confirmed he browses 4chan. He pretends not to remember the name of the site and everything.

>>6170249
you'd be surprised at how many well known artists lurk here

>>6170249
He could just have seen them tagged to him on twitter

>>6169944
it pissed me off beyond belief having to hear that shitty ad three times every episode

>>6170419
>he doesn't have sponsorblock
laughing girls.jpeg

>>6169762
I honestly see the comparison at the 30 sec mark. Not happy about it. Posting art on 4chan was a mistake.
>>6169803
>generic
Prove it.

how can someone be into animation and not be able to draw from your imagination, it doesnt make sense

>>6170636
>prove it
Not him but it looks like a last mintue graphic design assignment rather than something that watts would teach.

>>6166688

Proko and Watts are cancer. The more boomercore the youtube channel, the more you learn.

James Gurney literally maquettes his own titles instead of paying some after effects schmuck, he's a fucking weapon

>>6169542
>this high beg shit is supposed to convince everyone the larp is true
lmfao

>>6170363
such as?

>>6170363
not really surprised, given art is a mental illness

>>6169762
>don't make the same mistake
>don't wait 10 years to start drawing from imagination
he knows

>>6169631
the first one or second one? Or do u mean red dead revolver?

>>6167543
Does the average art school graduate have a chance of making a career that would make the expense worth it? In all honesty I don't know anything about art school but I can only assume that the tuition is exorbitant. I have a bachelor of arts (i.e. the book kind not the drawing kind) but that's only because my parents bankrolled my entire life including university.

>>6169434
I dunno about now, but years ago Marshall went out of his way to make sure his courses were accessible and cheap back when all the concept schools were charging around $400 a class, he'd charge something like $50-$75 for a 3-day workshop on composition. Packed with solid information. Generally a chill and humble guy, wasn't afraid to admit his art looked overworked and difficult as a process when viewing, and continues to work on improving himself. I wish I were an actual fan of his artwork (not my taste at all) so I could support him beyond the occasional workshop.

>>6166688

>>6169780
Loomeme did some nice illustrations

>>6169780
those who cannot draw, will preach

>>6171985
Both redemption titles.
Revolver was 1000% Akiman.

>>6168505
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