/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6148657
thanks for sharing anon, it is pretty interesting

>>6148854

is painting really a meme

Later artists just learned tricks, combined with a more realistic view of the world in part due to photography and advances in optics, to make paintings more realistically convincing while not actually being better at drawing or painting techniques. This is especially true for painting.

>>6148657
Why would you expect quick sketches to look as good as finished pieces? Also there's probably a reason he is more known for his paintings than drawings. They are two different skills.

He probably also used models for his paintings while he probably didn't have one standing around when he was just jotting down ideas.

>>6148854
>>6148856
>>6148868
permabeg ngmi kys this is absolute trash thread hidden

I always thought Sargent was a hack. Now I have proof.

>>6149048
people who don't draw think that an artist spends the same amount of time on any piece
yes they think a simple pencil drawing took as much time as a complete painting and thus that they should be of the same quality

>>6149060
?

>>6148854
>>6148856
>>6148868
This is make me feel alot better about my shit painting skills as a life long drawer. Ever an legendary painter like sargent proves that drawing and painting are really 2 different skills and both require years of work to achieve mastery. Thansk for sharing these op

>>6148854
>>6148856
These stand out so much from the rest they couldn't possibly be by sargent, unless he was drunk. Probably drawings made by a friend or a student.

>>6148657
I’m sure Sargent has some not amazing drawings, he also has lots of really nice ones.
A real fucker for this is uglow. Who’d take obsessive measurements of models standing for hundreds of hours. Couldn’t do a quick sketch for absolute shit.
He was just doing the grid method, a fancy ad hoc grid for each new painting, but was able to soothe his ego because he was technically painting from life

you fucks really scroll down to the few shitty sketches like everyone doesnt have a million of those theyd never let see the light of day and go "hmm well i guess sargents not that good"
whatever makes you feel better about yourselves, i guess

>>6149240
pretty much ye, its what /ic/ does every time

>>6148854
>>6148856
>>6148868
Permabeg tread. Sage.

>>6149178
sometimes really good painters just have shit drawing skills
you ever seen ruan jia's sketches? they're /beg/-tier but they serve his purposes

>>6149110
That might be part of it, but there are also drawings by other masters, that even when obviously quick do not show such lack of confidence and control. Even the more finished drawings I scanned from the links are not very remarkable.

>>6149251
I haven't seen ruan jia's sketches, but sargent is a better artist.
My point is that other sketches in the same link, which also look like quick sketches, are of a much higher quality, which make sense when you look at his paintings.
There are two sketches in particular that I noticed due to them representing the same subject, both of the shewolf from rome, where you can see one is obviously done with less skill than the other.

Besides that, it's impossible to paint like sargent and then draw like a beginner unintentionally, these two skills are too interwined to succeed in one and fail in the other to such an extent.

The only options are:
- he intentionally drew these sketches poorly
- he was on drugs or alcohol
- someone else drew them

The most likely being the last one.

>>6148657
No need to spend a lot of time if you're going to cover it in paint, get the proportions, perspective and composition right and leave everything else to solve while painting, ie forms and shapes

>>6148657
When you're amazing, you can turn on and off the goated art switch while you draw. It takes more energy to draw meticulously measured and refined. The reason why it's not amateurish is because he does it intentionally.

But he's not putting in extra effort into his art where it doesn't need to go.

>>6149348
Also on the topic of intention. They probably have one or two specific things they're looking for when doing these sketches. So that they can use it on a bigger piece or just for practice.
So if they're just trying to design a cool sillhouette it doesn't really matter if the lines look scribbly.

>>6149351
Lastly if you fall into the trap that all your drawings have to perfectly represent your current skill level, then your art will have no soul. You'll never explore. You'll always be waiting for things to be explained rather than trying to discover an understanding.

>>6148868
>>6148856
>>6148854
TIL, Sargent could simultaneously be exposed in a fine-art museum and in a modern art museum

>>6148856
I looked at the date of these, he was 12.
Let's see what you did then, eh?

>>6149185
You just described academicism.

>>6149357
The works he is known for are already modernist fine art.
Fine art just means art that is not for other purposes like commercial arts, applied arts, and decorative arts.

>>6149389
Not at all retard

>>6149434
I'm not too aware of the differences: in France, we basically have "musées des Beaux-Arts" (~fine art) and "musées d'art contemporain" (modern abstract random stuff)

There are per-period museums, but, as far as my small experience goes, essentially, the split is between old realist stuff and modern random stuff.

>>6149185
I have just read about this talentless mf and he took all the steps to assure that his drawing process would be the most painfull and chore est possible

>>6149449
There seems to be different interpretations that don't always translate exactly. Beaux art would have been more analogous to belle arti in italian, which was more restrictive to the more classically inspired works, so not all pre-modern works necessarily count. The same with beaux art which over time also took to mean specifically a certain kind of Greco-Roman classicism especially in architecture. They both predate modern and contemporary art, so must have originally meant something else other than something not modern or contemporary.
In chronologically arranged museums Sargent is often alongside the likes of early modernists, including early impressionists, but some museums have them all mixed even with more academic artists. Then the more quintessential impressionist and post-impressionist works might get their own gallery right next to them. But I haven't gone to museums since they started with the covid restrictions crap even after they loosened up bc fuck them.

fucking awesome content op
if you’re just doing studies for yourself you might just be trying to superfast dump an aspect of a subject into your memory, like a jotted word on a sticky note, so in this case you’re not trying at all to make an accurate drawing with forms in tact. you might be shorthand reminding your brain of something you drew before to just get your hand loose and moving fast, or you might be trying to land on a good silhouette in ehich case who cares what’s in it at this stage, or you might be figuring out the right value or overall ambient lighting you want for this element, in which case the perfect accuracy of features in meaningless, and counterproductive, if for example it ends up that figure would better serve in a larger piece as a just a dark shadowed silhouette.

fucking awesome content op
if you’re just doing studies for yourself you might just be trying to superfast dump an aspect of a subject into your memory, like a jotted word on a sticky note, so in this case you’re not trying at all to make an accurate drawing with forms intact. you might be shorthand reminding your brain of something you drew before to just get your hand loose and moving fast, or you might be trying to land on a good silhouette in which case who cares what’s in it at this stage, or you might be figuring out the right value or overall ambient lighting you want for an element, in which case the perfect accuracy of features in meaningless, and counterproductive, if for example it ends up that figure would better serve in a larger piece as a just a dark shadowed silhouette. a lot of masters doodled like this for the sole purpose of just loosening up their hand and getting the blood flowing, almost for a similar result you might close your eyes but keep your hand sketching, if you find yourself too stiff and technical when you need your work really loose, freed up and gestural. shit doodles from the greats when you know they have the skills to make accurate measurements just means it’s to a purpose other than storing away accurate musculature or forms.

>>6149712
btw i don’t remember who it is, but one of you guys’ mangaka Greats in an interview or documentary mentioned something that stuck with me: he always kept a bunch of scrap printer papers by his desk, and regularly doodled all over them during breaks, intentionally forcing himself to make them shitty and inaccurate, almost as a vent to allow him to spend the other 9-% of his work hours hyper-focused on accuracy and technical shit. it would’ve been too stressful to stay like that all the time, for forever, without forcing himself to doodle crazily like a little kid, just to remind himself he’s alive, and if you draw like you’re taking a calc exam and never wake up from this, your art’ll be completely flat and unengaging soon.
he was a top pro tho as an aside, so his shit was to us better than you’re thinking, but it still looked and felt like the quickest loosest sargent doodles you’re asking about.